Daylight savings time.

I don't have any experience of DST but thinking of it the advantages/ disadvantages seem to be 50/50.

Without it you may have to change the starting times of events. for example the early morning church service must start later in winter time because nobody will attend it when it is still dark and cold.

There is a solution to DST blues.

1 Throw your watch away.

2 Get up at first light.

3 eat whenever hungry.

4 Do some work whenever hungry.

"service must start later in winter time . . ." We've been through this discussion before. All the arguments I've heard in favor of dst are like horse feathers--don't exist. You don't get more daylight by changing the start times. You only change the ranges. You may get a little more daylight in the am but lose it in the pm. Am I missing something? Maybe I need a class on critical thinking. I keep thinking those in favor of this idiotic ritual need it but maybe I'm the one out of sinc.

It is actually most archaic and out dated nonsense to observe all over the world.

It the human itself who adjusts himself to the always changing sun-rise & sun-set; NOT your watch or PC.

Instead of simply issuing a simple standing order for Offices / Schools & all works the summer & Winter times.

How cumbersome it is to change million of watches by people twice a year?

One question which is not still answered by any discussion group so far:

HOW to log events/ incidents by public offices on 25 hours-day & 23-hour-day?

I always submit this question in " daylight savings time" discussion.

And it is submitted again if some one can answer.

To answer your question on how to log events on nights when the change occurs, simply list the time of your event as either DST (Daylight Savings Time) or SDT (Standard Daylight Time). Police and other emergency dispatch operators have been using this convention for years without any problems (that I am aware of). Many even continue to use DST and SDT all the time, not just on change nights.

DST is not observed all over the world. In SA it is definitely not.

How cumbersome it is to change million of watches by people twice a year?

Not only cumbersome, the total man-hours expended must be staggering.

I have always understood the reason for DST in the US, was to accommodate the harvest season in agriculture. Not sure how this really helped though because there is no value added, there still are only a given amount of daylight hours no matter how you set your clock/watch. Kinda senseless huh?

Harvest starts with the light and ends with the dark, in the old days. Now they harvest 24/7 with light for some crops.

DST was for factory workers in the old factories with the large open window peaked roofs made for the days when lighting was far more costly compared to wages per hour than today.

It does work, but these days the main reason is to have kids go to school and come home in the light.

Beautifully put!!

So kids go to school during daylight? Well, sounds like a reasonable enough reason ... but on the other hand, I don't believe the kids here in Arizona suffer one bit by not having that. In fact, they get to experience a beautiful sunrise part of the year.

That may not be the case in places further north, though. Our northern border states, Canada, etc. So I understand it may be darker. But there is plenty of the U.S. that is further south than Arizona, where that wouldn't be an issue.

aurizon: "It does work, but these days the main reason is to have kids go to school and come home in the light."

Somewhat, sometimes, etc. It all depends on latitude and location within a time zone.

Kids in Knox County have to be out in the weather to get on the school bus as early as 6:00 AM IN THE DARK!

Through 2006 DST began on the first Sunday in April (April 2, 2006), and changed back to standard time on the last Sunday in October (October 29, 2006).

By the Energy Policy Act of 2005, daylight saving time (DST) was extended in the United States in 2007. DST starts on the second Sunday of March, which is three or four weeks earlier than in the past, and it ends on the first Sunday of November, one week later than in years past.

Congress cannot refrain from tinkering with something in every bill passed by them, they must leave a fingerprint on it if not already done so by the Washington Bureauocracies

It is rarely used in tropical countries that lie around the equator......just how far away you need to get is probably southern Europe for the norther hemisphere for example, though that is mainly a guess, Germany and all points north certainly benefit.

I like DST.

It sounds as though nobody knows the reasons for it, you are just complaining, nothing more, also it has already been discussed to death (this year I believe) already on CR4......go and read.....

dude. I try and I try. There is just no way around it. You are ......

My wife just reminded me that if I have nothing nice to say, flies with honey and a bunch of other crap. So well I gotta go.

.....either take the pills or lay off the booze, they are getting to ya.....

That's a negative AG.

No pills no alcohol. None of that stuff gets anywhere near my innards. The absence of these numbing and reality impairing substances allows me to function without the confusion brought about by distorted perceptions.

I now function with an entirely different confusion.

cr3

Nicely said....!

it is easier to use DST than to change schedules helter skelter as day length changes. In the equatori zones there is zero need for it.

How does spending 6 months in DST make it easier to adjust to a 3 month transition in the maximum length in daylight?

No ... no changing schedules. Why? Just go with the flow.

Even with DST, there is still a difference in sunrise relative to the clock, between the beginning of DST and the midpoint of it. The only way to come close to eliminating that would be to change the clock every single day, based on the sun.

I'd like to think that humanity is flexible enough to deal with a slight rhythmic swing in daylight over the course of the year.

Is there a world petition I can sign, or something?

Flex time could eliminate DST with its accompanying jet-lag experience, rush hour, and the growing disconnect between casual observers and the environment. I grew up in TX before the 1967 madness that infected the nation with DST. Daylight saving time may be excused in time of war, but in peacetime it just shows that highly intelligent people (viz. Benjamin Franklin) can have very silly ideas.

Good ol' Ben was a night-owl! He was trying to save candles. Every year at changeover dates I see at least one reference claiming that DST does indeed save some energy. Now whether the energy savings is more valuable than the inconvenience...

the computer updates, so does my clock radio, blackberry and sat car radio on their own. All I need to change is the microwave and my wrist watch.

Sure I can get up at 6 Am on my own, but the masses cannot. They are bound to work clocks. So changing to DST to maximize daylight while they travel makes them all get up at the same time.

We even have one province that is offset by 1/2 hour from the rest of Canada.

see this:-

http://www.timetemperature.com/tzca/current_time_in_newfoundland_c.shtml

The most incomprehensible thing to me is not actually this 'daylight saving' idea, but that my cellphone needs to be told the time. What's going on? Isn't it connected to a network (most of the time) which is run by a computer which is probably even connected to an accurate clock! For goodness sake why do I have to tell it what time it is?? In case I'm bonkers and like to set it wrong.

Sorry, ranting again!

What energy is actually saved?

According to an energy market analyst friend, based upon recent calculations, there actually is NOT any energy savings benefit from DST.

This is primarily because of the shifted period of darkness (i.e., darkness in the early morning) that accompanies the longer daylight hours...

The studies reportedly indicated that people use more energy in the dark mornings (i.e., more lights) getting ready to go to work before the sun rises, or as it rises, than is saved by using less electric light in the early evening. This time of evening is typically in the middle of people's commute home, where they would not be using electricity for lighting anyway...

"Here in TX we observe daylight savings time. It is, perhaps, the most archaic and out dated nonsense to observe. "

DST is the provence of politicians who want a little more daylight in the summertime for golfing etc.

Shifting the dates and tinkering with such is sheer stupidity.

Besides, it helps the crops grow better with the extra hour of daylight! ;)

"Besides, it helps the crops grow better with the extra hour of daylight! ;)"

You should live on a farm all summer long. Up before daylight. Do the chores. Eat a HEARTY breakfast of bacon and eggs, sausage, steak, etc. etc. Then off to the fields to plow, plant, reap, thresh, etc. till the ol' dinner bell rings. Another hearty meal to sustain you through an afternoon much the same as the morning. The dinner bell rings again for supper and another round of all thing good. Do the chores, an hour or two in the fields before dark, go to the house and clean up BEFORE going to bed. A farmer leads a dusty life of dirt, grime, oil for the farm machinery, etc. Not much time to watch the crops grow!

"Besides, it helps the crops grow better with the extra hour of daylight"

Clock watching crops! What next? DST is not that powerful.

If DST is set forward by 3 hours chicken may lay an additional egg per day. Poor old rooster. Imagine him having to watch the clock as well.

TX = Texas?

TX seem to have a problem where some or other arrangement is needed.

Port Arthur in the east and El Passo in the west is more than 13 degrees apart. (±53min difference on sun time). the North and the south is 11 degrees apart - also an effect on sunset & sunrise.

Haphazard personal arrangements may even be more absurd.

Do TX fall in more than one time zone?

"Do TX fall in more than one time zone?"

Florida sure does. I live in the central time zone and work mostly in the eastern.

DST is the provence of politicians who want a little more daylight in the summertime for golfing etc.

What else do they do, that is besides sfa. Pity they didn't spend more time doing what they were elected to do.

We are in the middle of an election here in Oz, its hardly worthwhile listening to the radio or watching tv, the garbage is incessant.

Time is a protocol; there is no such thing as absolute time. Einstein was right!

there is no such thing as absolute time!!!!!????

Of course there is man.... 'opening time'... pull youself together and check with your nearest Landlord immediately...

As I understand it , DST was established to gain an extra hour of daylight after work during the summer. What I dont get is if an extra hour of daylight is good in the summer why isnt it good in the winter when we are already dealing with shorter days to begin with. I mean why deprive us of that hour when the days are already shortened?To me it is totally bass ackwards thinking. Leave the clocks alone and let those who want to adjust their schedules for their own reasons do so (ae. set their alarm clocks an hour earlier.) Jeesh, is it that complicated? jack

Everything gets complicated if politicians or legal guys are involved.

They usually end up with a law providing for the opposite of the original intention.

It is also not observed here in Arizona.

One advantage of it in my younger days was when the bars closed in Arizona at 1am, you could cross the border into California where it was midnight and have 2 hours of extra drinking time.

It is of no use if you are across the border from Laughlin, NV casinos though, in which case you just lose all perception of time other than day or night!

Same here in Oz, fortunately we only have eight states and territories, and they can't agree. Some do, some don't have it. With 50 states and how many time zones, one could only guess what time it is somewhere else. Some of the states here start and finish DS on different dates. Up the politicians.

One of the major problems here is, the extra sunlight causes the curtains to fade more quickly.

Politicians come up with good ideas! They can't think of them, that's the trouble. They are like ostriches they stick their heads up their ar...... Whoops!! Their heads in the sand.

What's the big deal? Parts of the year are a little darker when you get up, and parts of the year are a little lighter. So what? What, do the zombies come out at night ... so that we are not allowed to be outside when it's a little darker? Been in Arizona about 4 years, and it is just sooo nice not to have to change back and forth. But can't tell you what a pain in the butt it is trying to remember how many hours ahead or behind the rest of the states are, on any given day.

I gotta believe that by the time there is a United Earth gov't and we are choosing between Mars and the moon for our summer holidays, that they will be laughing at the absurdity of the ancient experiment of DST.

It may take 10 years or more, but as energy prices out strip earnings, I am sure that a lot of people in the countries where it can be very effective, will start to like DST more and more!!

In fact, if you look at energy savings as not only reducing CO2 in the atmosphere to more correct levels, but also it will enable us to leave behind far more crude oil for out children and their progeny, I think its more than just a nice thing to do.

Last year I added two large windows over our hallway, which goes up to the roof level, for just that reason, I am also going over to FLs, CFLs and LEDs in all areas of lighting that can be done. We have reduced our incandescents to a minimum, but I am working slowly to sort out something in those areas to. Mostly INCs are dificult to replace where the fitting was not designed to take anything else, but CFLs are coming in such a range of sizes now, I think that I can make some furher progress soon.....

Warning!!Burnt out CFLs and FLs must be taken back to the shop, do not place them in the rubbish, they contain Mercury.

Andy, thank you. Not for caring ... but for actually doing. So many care ... but so few act on that.

You are perfectly right of course, people forget in fact you can save money over the long term.

I have had CFLs last 12 years in daily usage!! The sad part was that this model was discontinued in those twelve years and I had to buy a completely different replacement!!!

If you live in a hot country or it is just hot anyway, get on a stepladder and stick your head up close to the ceiling with incandescents, the heat there is phenomenal!!!! Most forget that they give out only about 5% light and 95% heat.

If you live in a cold country, it is not quite so bad, except that electric heat is the most expensive and from light fittings it is often hard up against the ceiling not where you sit or work!!! Convection does NOT bring it down to you!!!! It stays as a hot layer that only people over 2 meters high can appreciate in some small way!!!

My concern about the so called low-energy bulbs is that they have such a disappointing warm-up time. If I used them more I would end up leaving a light on for hours that I would usually switch off just so that next time I went into that room I could actually see. Viz the loo. LEDs are a thought, I haven't seen them much in use in buildings yet. I don't like them for vehicle lighting.

There's a Volkswagen out, Golf or Polo or somesuch with rear direction indicators in the middle of a cluster of LEDs. Can't see it in anything like real sunlight. Tried to run into the back of two of them so far.

Some people have a problem with the slight 50 or 60 Hz flickering from cheap CFLs and FLs, I do not see that, even CRT Screens that nobody else can look at because of flickering, do not register in my eyes or brain......so I am lucky.

One problem I have found with CFLs is that the manufacturers wattage equivalents are rubbish, that is if they say a 9watt version is equivalent to a 60 watt normal bulb and you had 60 watt before, go for at least one number higher.....in this example, go for 11 or 12 watt CFL....at least.

With regard to warm up time, it is rarely more than 7 or 8 seconds and if you follow the tip above, usually does not matter.....

I like them for vehicle lighting as if you have ever had both on a car (I noticed it with the caravan attached to the car, (caravan has bulbs, car has LEDs,) that there is a significant time delay between the LEDs coming on and the bulbs....it gives some extra safety margin to the following vehicles.

In fact, I would go as far as to suggest (I know the VWs you mean VW Polo, I find them great!) that you might have some form of color blindness or something.....I find them VERY clear even in sunlight....but there again I follow at a much greater distance than most of the traffic here, perhaps that plays a role....

I suppose I should seek clarification as to what 'FL's and 'CFL's are, I'm not familiar with the terms. Perhaps by FL you 're refering to the long tubey type I have in my garage. Not allowed in the house, wife hates them and not that fond myself. Spend a long enough time underneath them at work perhaps. I have to say after a lifetime of living with them, they don't seem to have the same 'warm-up' time that I complain about with the low-energy incandescent replacements. I suppose we're extravagant in our kitchen with 7x50W halogen overhead spots, outside lights I've fitted with CFLs, if they are the fluorescent equivalent of the standard British bayonet lightbulb. If we're talking energy, running an oil fired Rayburn months of the year has to be our Big Environmental Sin. As far as the building is concerned, it's not double-glazed throughout and our loft insulation is poor. I should get round to adding it up, oil, lectricity, wood, coal. Probably find we consume more in food and alcohol over a year but that pretty well all gets recycled!.

Compact Fluorescent Lights and Fluorescent Lights of any sort.....you got it mostly right.

Your kitchen has at this moment approximately 35 watts of light energy and and 315 watts of heat energy!!! In summer that must be hell!!!

I would certainly recommend changing at least 4 of them to LED versions, if not more!!

The LED version usually use less than 2 watts of energy each, so replacing 4 with LEDs would result in a total power used of only about 158 Watts......a good saving! Almost 200 watts.....won't you feel good?

If you extend this across the house, you could probably safe half your lighting electricity AND in dangerous areas, you won't feel so bad about leaving it on for longer periods!! So it might even be safer too.....

With regard to warm up time, it is rarely more than 7 or 8 seconds and if you follow the tip above, usually does not matter.....

Nope, the ones I have take up to 5 minutes. I can be dressed in the time it takes to warm up.

That most precious of all gems, a woman who can be dressed and ready to go in 5 minutes.

The LED tail lights on some of the cars -- the newer Cads for example have a strange flicker at night and as you move your eyes across the lights they seem to follow the direction of sight with a weird flicker and I see two or three following behind each other like a strobe light in motion. It is very distracting.

Not sure whether it is something everyone experiences, maybe it's due to my eyeglasses having prisms in both eyes, but with most other cars or trucks having LEDs I don't see the same effect.

The argument I hear trotted out with every discussion on the subject is that there are less accidents in daylight so the morning commute is less dangerous, especially for children on the 'school run'.

Of course it came about when children walked or cycled to school, not when towns were gridlocked by offroaders driving to school while their engines are still struggling to reach half working temperature. Oh blast, off I go again.

Do they have daylight saving North of the Arctic Circle.

I wonder how it affects the Inuit? Or the polar bears?

It was all set up for the farming industry. To give the farmers a little more daylite to tend to the crops. So, my feelings is we should just set the clocks to one speed and just deal with life the way the rest of the world deals with it. There are no more reasons to continue such nonsences.

Maximo

the solution is electric cows that update location via GPS and mobile robot milking carts that find the cows by their GPS.

Then someone will hack the robots and break up a bikini beach...

For you personally, but for a great many other people living in the belts where DST brings something very useful, we should retain it. In fact, I would go so far as to say we should bring back DDST.....

Most people in these belts see it as a positive effect, you will too once electricity is 20 x or more, more expensive than it is now in relation to your earnings......wait up!!

But I mean really, 1 hour? Can't we just split the difference and quit messin' with the clocks?

I want metric time. 10 months to a year, 10 days make one month. each day 10 hours, each of 10 minutes, each of 10 seconds. no connection to the rotation around the sun or daily rotation. No DST.

PS, buy stock in calendar and watch making companies.

10 months? I have 8 children in my life. Do you know how much that is on Birthday presents? Do you you realize how old I would be!

You alone will be an economic boon for your area...

All due respect. --- to you aurizon --- but BOO on the 10 stuff

good point i always thought it was a big waste.