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Embossing Plastics

09/14/2007 2:49 AM

I am looking for a device and/or methodology for permantly marking machined plastic components. Any ideas appreciated.

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#1

Re: Embossing Plastics

09/14/2007 3:04 AM

Engraving a serial number on each part may help.

I included a serial number engraving subroutine in a CNC program. I used the bore#2 cycle to place the number and a data file/spreadsheet to keep track of the numbers used.

The numbers can be created sequentially or taken from a pre-entered file.

What are you using for the machining?

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#2

Re: Embossing Plastics

09/14/2007 3:23 AM

Sign it with a soldering iron !

Ink jet printing, bar code, laser marking, pad printing.

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#3

Re: Embossing Plastics

09/14/2007 3:41 AM

There are some interesting hand-held engraving machines made for use by hobbyists worldwide. The make that comes to mind is "Actograp". A silly word, which is why it got stuck, and worth 13 points at Scrabble incidentally, not counting double-letter squares.

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Embossing Plastics

09/14/2007 3:51 AM

Ooooh. I hate that term 'hand-held engraving machines'.

Pedantic, I know, but that's just NOT engraving by any stretch of the imagination.

OK, It will do the job.

My Brother has engraved shotguns for Holland & Holland, so I've seen a real craftsman at work.

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Embossing Plastics

09/14/2007 4:23 AM

No offence intended.

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#6
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Re: Embossing Plastics

09/14/2007 4:49 AM

None taken, I wasn't having a pop at you...

It's the manufacturers who name these things who are in my opinion miss representing their devices.... 'Rotary burr' or 'Vibrating burr' 'marker' may be better descriptions.

Mind I havn't checked the dictionary...I'd think engrave had cutting or chiselling implications.

I'm doing something in oak at the mo' some is routed some is actually carved...I'd certainly distinguish between the two, although I might say 'carved out with a router'.

Oh dear I'm confusing myself now... now where did I put my pedant's cap (or is it a hat?)

Maybe I'm sort of fishing for a new thread on the de-skilling/missrepresenting of old crafts? I dunno wha'ever....

Del

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#7
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Re: Embossing Plastics

09/14/2007 5:05 AM

<chiselling>?

The school woodwork master said (in a rural Essex accent for best effect), "No such thing as chiselling, buey; thass called 'paring'."

<Maybe I'm sort of fishing for a new thread on the de-skilling/missrepresenting of old crafts?>

PWSlack subscribes! Go for it!

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#23
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Re: Embossing Plastics

09/15/2007 10:40 AM

C_Rummel3 is ready to join Del del Gato's new thread.

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#8
In reply to #4

Re: Embossing Plastics

09/14/2007 5:43 AM

I'm a little confused - according to my understanding, some "hand-held engraving" machines can engrave; is the following roughly what you mean?

Starting with roots (pun intended): graving is the action of digging deeply enough into a surface that a body may safely be buried in the trench. That should mean steep walls and a depth that is significant compared with the width. I think any sort of digging tool would be acceptable. 'Engraving' would used to denote that the surface is not necessarily the ground, and the scale rather smaller, but "steep walls" and "deep relative to width" should still be implied. Again, I'm not clear that the nature of the tool is relevant.

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#11
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Re: Embossing Plastics

09/14/2007 4:09 PM

C'mon Phz ...

You know what we're talking about those awfull powered buzzing crap thigs that scratch away pathetically, they don't dig a steep sided groove.

A 'real' engraving tool is a thin steel bar with a ball(ish) shaped handle which rests in the palml of your hand as push the point of the tool into the metal, sharpening the point of the tool into the correct angles is a knack in itself.

As my Brother once eloquently described it, Starting a cut is easy...the hard thing is stopping it!

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#13
In reply to #11

Re: Embossing Plastics

09/15/2007 1:30 AM

My grandfather was an engraver and a watch maker. I know what you're talking about. I've seen some of his practice copper plates.

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#16
In reply to #11

Re: Embossing Plastics

09/15/2007 6:49 AM

Never seen a vibratory "engraver", but heard (about) them**. But I've used a spinning diamond-tipped engraving tool (hand-held), which seemed to me to do a pretty good job*** - although I believe the tool you describe to be quicker and give better results, but only in skilled hands and when used on specific materials.

**You'll have deduced that I can't bear the thought, and so look the other way.
*** This was to cut a groove in a ceramic surface...

Fyz

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#18
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Re: Embossing Plastics

09/15/2007 7:09 AM

YHi Phyz,

Yeh.. ceramic.. a bit tough by hand LOL !

Don't s'pose even my Bro' could do that and he's real hard!

Probably just me being pompous...dunno what else you could call that tool...

I just remembered way back I worked at a company with a nice pantograph machine. You loaded up the letters you wanted to cut much as you would in an old printing press, then followed them (they were incised) with a stylus. The cutting head of the machine followed this and copied it onto the work piece...usually a brass plaque or that two coloured plastic sheet where you cut away the black to reveal the white underneath.

(Mrs Cat could probably cut into ceramic with one of her stares... )

Del

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#19
In reply to #18

Re: Embossing Plastics

09/15/2007 7:21 AM

Is Mrs Cat a schoolteacher?

Nearly every lab I worked in before about 1990 had one of those pantographs. Reduction ratio between 1:1 and 10:1, I seem to remember. Great for cutting out plating masks, among other things. The last one vanished at the hands of a manager***: "it took up too much space". The pantograph was initially replaced by a desk and a computer system dedicated to CAD so we could outsource the activity. Later, when software became available for general-purpose PCs, the conference room was expanded**. Nuff said?

Fyz

**I'm sure it would have been the manager's office if it had been close enough
***Incredibly, his original qualification was engineering, not accountancy...

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#20
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Re: Embossing Plastics

09/15/2007 8:43 AM

Mrs Cat has retired now...used to teach 'special needs' kids.

Now she just looks after my special needs...

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#21
In reply to #20

Re: Embossing Plastics

09/15/2007 9:00 AM

That stare seems to be an examined part of the training course...
Possibly even more essential with a certain subset of "special needs" miscreant?

No special needs of her own, then?

Fyz

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#24
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Re: Embossing Plastics

09/15/2007 10:43 AM
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#25
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Re: Embossing Plastics

09/15/2007 10:46 AM

Nicely put

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#22
In reply to #3

Re: Embossing Plastics

09/15/2007 10:38 AM

No proper nouns!

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#9

Re: Embossing Plastics

09/14/2007 6:42 AM

Hi Guys, Thanks for your comments, I was thinking more down the lines of marking with a "branding iron", providing the part does not dissapear in a puff of smoke or that the tool gets welded to the part.

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Embossing Plastics

09/14/2007 6:57 AM

The adjustable hot-wire tools used for scorching wood do a good job. In principle, this can create a groove (not with all materials) or a charred region of plastic. But the smoke is quite toxic when you use this on plastics, so avoid breathing it.

Failing that, a fine-tipped soldering iron isn't bad.

In both cases you may need to experiment; one frequent problem (depending on the plastic) is that you can generate "threads" of material that follow the iron around and eventually stick at some random (confusing) location on the part. Some machinable plastics will scorch before they flow - that may (or not) be an advantage to you.

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#12
In reply to #10

Re: Embossing Plastics

09/14/2007 4:19 PM

This is engraving...the sort of stuff my Brother does, restoring underlever hammer action shotguns.

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#14
In reply to #9

Re: Embossing Plastics

09/15/2007 1:32 AM

I'm thinking that if you have a die made, place it against the plastic, and hit it with a hammer - that mark is going to stay forever!!!

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#26
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Re: Embossing Plastics

09/15/2007 10:50 AM

Okay lets see what we can think up right quick. Okay I got it.

Take a set of punch stamps and rig a holder up so that you can interchange (the make them off the shelf) now insulate the handle. Now wire it up to a power source with a rheostat. Perhaps a temp transducer.

Voila. A adjustable temperature plastic branding tool.

That will be 50 shekels please.

cr3

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#27
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Re: Embossing Plastics

09/15/2007 12:47 PM

Assuming your plastic will deform suitably under heat (check that out using one of the tools suggested in #10 before having your stamp made):

If you've got a Rayburn or an Aga, just heat your (metal) stamp on the appropriate hot-plate before applying. If you're stuck at work (tough one that), you'll probably have to find something that meets health-and-safety requirements - perhaps a sized hole in the back of your stamp so it fits snugly over the tip of a temperature-controlled soldering iron - naw, you can't afford to bribe the H&S man that much - even if it turns out safer than any of the official options...

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#28
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Re: Embossing Plastics

09/15/2007 1:18 PM

OOh I like it. Take the off the shelf punch stamp holder, drill a horizontal hole and slit it length wise. Now 2 or 3 small tapped holes for set screws to tighten with. Insert soldrering iron into hole and tighten screws. Heat is conducted from backside of stamp to stamp face via controlled temp of soldering iron.

Or something like this (sorry for quality am running out the door)

Another 50 shekels please.

cr3

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#15

Re: Embossing Plastics

09/15/2007 2:35 AM

Hot stamping gives you a great versatility of colors as long as you are doing it onto a flat surface. There is a stripof colored or metalized film between the stamp and the part which imparts the color to the process.

Laser etching or engraving is the latest cool process. Color is limited, but it can be done on any surface with some really amazing effects. At the EASTEC show I saw at least 8 companies selling the machines.

If you are machining the parts and they don't have to be serialized you can just incorporate the marking into the program. However some plastics are so tough that doing the engraving without burrs is very difficult, especially if the engraving is very fine.

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#17
In reply to #15

Re: Embossing Plastics

09/15/2007 6:52 AM

"Laser etching or engraving is the latest cool process"

Where've you been all these years?

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#29
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Re: Embossing Plastics

09/16/2007 11:08 AM

Yes it has been around a long time, but the machinery that uesd to take up a whole room will now sit on a desk top and for a fraction of the cost. The software is much more user friendly, and the artistic effects that can be done are amazing.

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#30

Re: Embossing Plastics

09/17/2007 3:02 AM

3 more ideas (from my youth) of marking the parts.

1 Take a nice magnifying glass and "engrave" the initials on the part using sunlight (wear good sunglasses)

2 Take a pocket knife and scratch or cut the markings (Cadmad L ____)

3 Take cordite from bullets and place it on surface spelling out something and light it.

A final note: My granny always said "Comics and fools engrave their names on doors and tools" (The original words changed too rime - Ok it does not make sense but neither did the original)

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#31
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Re: Embossing Plastics

09/17/2007 3:26 AM

LOL

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#32

Re: Embossing Plastics

09/17/2007 5:32 AM

RFID implant wire.

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#33

Re: Embossing Plastics

09/17/2007 11:46 AM

OK although you have gotten many suggestions as to how to stamp these plastic items I have to ask what type of material or plastic your using.

The temperature range for a good emboss depends greatly on the materials ability to hold the emboss. Some materials hold better when cold others have to be heated. some high temp plastics wont even work with heat. Some crack under impact etc etc.

I very much like the Idea of using existing alpha numeric punch stamps and I believe there is already a tooling jig out there for using multiple numbers in it. Applying the heat is the tricky part but the soldering iron idea is good. I.m just not sure if it will generate enough heat if you have a long string of characters.

Give the guys at Lutz manufacturing a call. They can make stamping or embossing tooling for just about anyone.

Their number is 520-417-9210 and talk to Hank

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#34
In reply to #33

Re: Embossing Plastics

09/19/2007 2:55 AM

Thanks for your comments. The materials are standard "engineering" plastics i.e. POM (acetal) Polypropylene etc., But, because of its hydroscpic nature, never Nylon.

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#35
In reply to #34

Re: Embossing Plastics

09/19/2007 6:49 AM

Polypropylene (and any other thermoplastic) should work just fine using heated stamps (though the temperature needed for the stamp will vary - pp will require a relatively high temperature).

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