Funny noise from water tank

"boingg" sounds pressure related to me.

What is the max and recommended pressure of the heater?

What is the pressure in the mains?

Don't take a shower when it makes "zirtz" or "zap"

I am no expert on electric showers, however, here is a few ideas.

The showers have a pressure sensing relay. (if the water pressure drops too low, it will disable the shower.)

Some electrical relays are actually a combination of relays: one that is energized when power is applied (probably the pressure relay) and the other when a state has changed (i.e shower is turned on). If the power relay is being energized, it may be causing some mechanical movement.

Besides possible relay induced noises, Hot water systems are generally susceptible to noises for these reasons:

1. Air in the system causes a knocking sound in the valves when pressure changes, (this can be rectified by the addition of an air bleed valve)
2. dirt or calcification on the heating elements causes uneven heating, and or gas bubbles. (will eventually cause the elements to be replaced. requires occasional draining and cleaning)
3. Pipe noise: Expanding or contracting pipes cause noise if they are mounted too tight and suddenly move in the hangars.

<boingg>

I think that's an expansion noise. Remember those clicking frogs you getin your stocking at Christmas?

My central heating does a nice , bonga,bonga,_{bump, bump}

when it first comes on in the morning

Del

Ok some more info is needed here.

I switch the power supply to my electric heater on but the shower itself is still off.

The water tank has nothing to do at all with the shower as it is on a seperate water feed and the power to it is in no way related to that of the shower.

The boinggg noise is ever only when I switch my shower on but not always. This eliminates anything to do with the water tank in my opinion as it never boinggs when that comes on or fills up or anything. In all my years I have lived here it never made any noise except for the usual expansion noises when the whole system warms up. That is not what I talk about when I say it boinggs.

There is one more test I can do myself which has not happened so far and that is to see if the tank makes the same boinggy noise when the shower itself gets switched on upstairs. This needs 2 people as I cannot be in my airing cupboard listening for the noise and be upstairs to switch the unit on all at once. I will try to do this tommorow.

This would be an interesting test. Let the shower rest till its as cold as it'll ever get. Then apply a GOOD digital amprobe with a "peak lock" ( not to be confused with a "HOLD button"), this will capture and remember your INRUSH current which certainly can make weird noises.

It took me awhile to catch a fuse blowing problem with a defrost heater circuit pulling 12 amps that kept blowing 30 amp economy fuses. After I let the cooler chill all the way down, I used my peak-lock ammeter on it and captured 525 amps in-rush current! For only a heart-beat, but it was enough to smoke economy fuses.

To summarize this epistle, some electric elements change their resistance drastically when they get cold, others will actually sing or make some type of noise initially. I've also witnessed a lot of contactors that "sing" during inrush currents.

PS: if it IS the inrush current making these noises, whatever is "singing" is being over-worked and will probably fail prematurely.

I did mention that all I did was switch the power on to the shower, the shower is still off this means that there is NO INRUSH CURRENT. Nothing to get cold or hot and nothing changing state, just voltage waiting at the on/off switch of unit.( oh yeah, there is a smnall led in the unit to tell you power is on but that is before the heating elements of course.

Unless you've taken this thing apart or examined the schematic, how do you know what's inside of it? It's hard to imagine what could be making your noise but if I were you, I'd want to know just so I was "smarter than the shower" hehe.... you know how us "tech-heads" are....gotta know what makes it tick !

Try the amprobe test anyway.

"smarter than the shower" hehe....

I like that, I think I have put it down as an interaction between:

a) shower wire from main switch to unit upstairs

b) other wires supplying ringmain upstairs

c) water pipes running right next to it

z) electrically sensitive watertank gremlin with kettle fur

Ok maybe that is ridiculous, lets forget about the pipes

Please do the wiring safety checks and check the water heaterS (more than one in the area!) for insulation degradation (Megger test) or improper installation, that might answer all questions and save somebody's life too.

For such things you need H.R.C. Fuses...specially made for such problems....

Nah, those are the ones you can't replace with a nail if you ever pop it and you have nothing else to get your lights back on.

Install Air Vent Valve on the top of Tank.

you can save energy also.

An air vent valve is not needed in domestic UK gravity-feed hot water installations. The outlet from a copper hot water cylinder, which is on the top of it, has a breather pipe running always-upwards that discharges over the top of the lip of the break tank in the loft, so as to allow for filling and expansion. Air bubbles pass naturally to the top of the water surface in this pipe and dissipate.

The best ways to save energy are

• High-thickness insulation around the tank and pipes, and,
• Only heat the water just before it's needed.

The best ways to save energy are

• High-thickness insulation around the tank and pipes, and,
• Only heat the water just before it's needed.
• And frequent catnaps!

Not when you are a permanent insomniac. It will take considerable amounts of energy trying to get to sleep. You will still not succeed and then be moody and chagrined, you saved nothing then!

Nothing to do with the water tank. If it is the tank that makes the noise it is due to the electricity that gets send upstairs to the shower unit. I live here now for close to 9 years and it only started to do it when I installed a new shower unit.

<I reckon it could have to do with the magnetic field building up in the wires >

On an AC supply? Not likely!

Here's a second vote for the expansion of something upon its getting heated up.

If that is true, how would you explain the boingg noise in a large transformer than? All that happens here is the electro magnetic field bouncing off the end of the coils and returning which causes the feedback spike that so often take out fast fuses even when they are rated correctly. That is AC as well.

"in a large transformer"

I have seen a case where upon energizing, the di-electric of a transformer warms up and the case of the transformer which is slightly indented pops out slightly.

It could be that it warms up of course in time but what if the boingg noise happens right when you switch it on? That surely must have to do with the elec mag field?

If it was the field, it would happen every time. For it to be only occasionally, it almost has to be mechanical (or a combination of the two.).

combination sounds plausable to me.

What if the water pipes, which are not laid down with pinpoint accuracy in my house, do move about a bit at times, so when I switch the shower on the temporary buildup of the elc mag field takes its fancy to this pipe and moves it sufficiently for it to gently clobber the outside of the water tank which sits right next to it?

Could that work or not.

Next question is, is it dangerous and will my bath break up all by itself thus showing Kris up in his unearthly efforts to break his with force?

1. Slight movement of the pipes are not dangerous unless it affects your sanity. You may want to shove some insulation between the pipes and the tank to eliminate the noise.
2. If it is actually a magnetic field and not just pressure or a relay activation, there is the possibility of "shock value", but I assume your pipes are grounded as per most building codes.
3. If it is a transformer case, - no problem
4. If it is a loose relay, it will eventually fail as moving solder joints invariably break.
5. If it is the normal operation of a pressure relay, again no problem.

As far as Kris goes... I think he has been sufficiently distracted and will eventually forget what his original intent was. Was it to have the longest blog?

lol,

I already have shoved some stuff here and there and it stops sudden jolts when the washing machine takes water for instance. May try and do the same with some more to see if it takes this boingg thing away, it is not bothering anybody, just my curious mind trying to find out what the heck is going on.

I think that the reason why it is only doing it sometimes is maybe to do with other electric cables in the vicinity. If they are supplying something upstairs and have a field around them, that in turn could agitate the cable that suddeny gets powered up for the shower which then boinggs against the water tank (or something).

I don't know for sure but I kinda put it to rest and think it is harmless except that it is nagging my brain. Whatever is causing it probably reads this post as well and sits there laughing at me. Oh no, the pipe noise has affected my sanity like you said.

That was my point exactly...inrush current. If a peak lock amprobe did indeed record a surprising in-rush current, that would definitely cause a noise. I've seen in-rush current recorded when throwing ON the main breaker in a house where NOTHING is operating but just sending voltage onto the entire distribution system causes a quick current draw and then it disappears.

That would NOT be the case here but if the shower unit has a good sized transformer in it, that can do it.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, can someone please tell me where on earth this mythical 'fairly big' transformer would be in a shower circuit???

Ooooh I've designed this nice slim shower unit...let's put in a 100VA transformer just to giv it some gravitas when it's being unpacked!

Del

You are right Del, people do not read properly so the transformer thing was added in a sideline somewhere all to do with boingg noises. There is no transformer here and never will be. There is NO inrush either and I now believe it could be an earth fault but why not all the time?

I stood there this morning for an good 10 minutes or so swithcing the damn thing on and off and nothing at all! Frustrating when you have been given good suggestions but cannot act on them as the problem seems to have gone temporarily. I will get a megger tester from a friend and do the proper full test just to put the thought to bed if nothing else.

Thanks you all for your thoughts and I will tell you here what happened with the test if any.

Thanks for the update....

Is it possible that the heater coil is expanding into the tank wall? Is the hot water tank or heater in the tank new? Here in TX, I have a natural gas water heater so I am not very familiar with electric heaters nor am I sure what metal my tank is made out of. At the facility I used to work at, my supervisor decided to pipe a hot condensate line directly into our process water tank instead of letting it pass through the gray water sump first. Every time the regeneration system turned on and the condensate went to the tank, it groaned, popped, and moaned for all it was worth. Not a fun thing to stand around and listen to at all.

Maybe there is a pipe held in tension or something that is being relieved as you heat up the tank?

The tank has worked ok for over 9 years now. It started with the new shower unit upstairs. My tank is not electrical anyway it is fed by hot water from my central heating boiler.

I guess I am thoroughly confused then...

welcome to this elite little club

Ho hum still a bit confused...I can't see where ther would be a transformer of any size in the syatem...Maybe the shower heater has some obscure sort of fault/design whereby when power is first applied is is 'ON' it then 'wakes up' reads the switch inputs etc, realises it is meant to be 'OFF' and dissconnect the heating element.

e.g Despite being 'OFF' there may still be a surge....

(Other than this maybe you could say it's the work of the Lord and open your house to gullible pilgims? ) I didn't say that...it was Kris honest...

I think someone should check out the electrical ground bonding to the water pipes and the insulation value of the new water heater with a proper megger tester, and the way you have it connected to the mains as you may have an electrical problem that might be also dangerous.....not necessarily with what you have done yourself, but maybe with some previous idiot trying to remove his genes from the world pool! Do not let him remove yours instead!!!

Check that when you screwed it to the wall that an underlying cable was not penetrated or a water pipe or anything......maybe its a poltergeist!!!

I cannot believe that it is anything magnetic personally. Maybe its my magnetic personality!!!

Nothing else rings a bell with me, sorry.