Who Should Get the Vaccine First?

I don't know.

There are vaccines that children must take or they can't attend public schools ... well, there's loopholes, but for most families, their kids get inoculated. Should a small group of people put the population at risk? Or is it our right to refuse?

130,000 complete. Only 69.8 million to go...

69.8M? In the UK, right?

I mostly agree with what's already being done, but there's little harm (or good) to come from expressing an opinion.

It should be distributed based on the likelihood of exposure when going about one's necessary activity, i,e. healthcare workers working with Covid patients and those providing support services in the vicinity. That group can be further prioritized based on the probability of severe disease, and whether they have already had it.

Next would be essential workers that cannot do their jobs while maintaining social distance, First responders, law enforcement, grocery/pharmacy, those workers that have to be in contact with the public and have little or no control over who they come in contact with. I would leave out a lot of government workers and politicians because they can control their contacts.

Generally we should prioritize the people working in the foundations of our economy and society so that the rest of us can have food, water, power, and safety. Ironically many of the same people whose wages indicate they are valued the least.

I think this is what the general consensus feels.

There have been some interesting posts here. I love hearing what you guys post, because it give me a completely different view vs the general public.

Admin: Post removed due to language violation.

Add to this listing of politicians, lawyers for like most parasites they benefit few and hinder more.

I have a question for all of you here. Again, this is a very smart group of people here in this forum and I appreciate all that you provide. Though I may not agree with what you have to say, I do appreciate hearing a different viewpoint and I'll admit that at times I've been in error, because I didn't see the whole picture or I was led to believe something that wasn't true.

I heard that they're going to give the Covid vaccine to health care workers first. Though I didn't hear which health care workers or only those who are working with Covid patients. Maybe someone can shed some light on this. Also, I'm wondering if there is another group that should also be first in line.

Let me know what you guys think. I'm very interested to hear your thoughts and I also have my 2 cents to throw in as well.

Thanks in advance.

In Australia, they have it worked out. The over 70's (my mob) will be first up, if it kills us then the government will be free of us old age pensioners, this will save the Gov't $Millions and save the working class from getting too crook. I know I should have become a test pilot for an unknown aircraft company....

Rod..

In the US, we didn't think that far ahead. We're trying to kill off our healthcare people first!

I would hope that the Australian government does care about their citizens and they're doing this to keep the susceptible safe. I think I trust them a lot more than ... well, I'll keep my political views to myself this time.

stop it!

this virus is very curable now, Yes we lost a lot of elderly in the beginning, especially with the blunder of the NY governor, but now we know how to cure it, as well as the number of deaths are way over exaggerated. under 50 and healthy have better chance of dying in a car accident going to work, many have gotten it with symptoms less than a cold. even under 65 nothing to really worry about (I'm 60 and had flu symptoms for 4-5 days...).

This is/was a political scheme. hydroxychloroquine or ivermectin, with z-pac and zinc is the cure for those really ill. everyone else is sent home as the same as a cold.

if the media wasn't telling you that we have a deadly pandemic, would you even know it? yes elderly are/were at risk but they are at risk for flu and pneumonia too.

you know how we know that there isn't a real pandemic? Countries wouldn't be restricting medications that physicians are allowed to prescribe. Let's say peanut butter cured 10% of those ill, why wouldn't a doctor give it a try? But for some reason, Doctors hands are tied. Hydroxychloroquine has been given to millions upon millions of people for a myriad of aliments for well over 50yrs., but for some "unknown" reason, this medication is not allowed to be prescribed for a "pandemic"... Come on people, your smarter than that... aren't you?

I see you like Kool-Aid.

None are so blind as those who refuse to see. How about a Hawaiian punch?

To setlock. Hydroxychloroquin has serious potential psychological side effects. A person trained in science should be able to make judgments here, and avoid the temptation to believe what you want to be true. This is a worldwide event. No-one invents DNA sequences.

Also, as a working elder, I am not disposable yet. And to all those under 50, including my own children, you can be asymptomatic spreaders. You can show that you are part of a "we" not a "me" by wearing masks and avoiding crowds. The "we" is the civilization that brings us food and shelter, so we don't have to hunt and gather and live in caves.

Although I tend to agree with your statements BSR, I need to add a caution.

Medical doctors are not psychiatrists but psychiatrists ARE medical doctors. The oxy disaster was caused by uneducated medical doctors with God complexes and a solid case of greed.

Physical pain is a well known and documented symptom of depression, IN THE MENTAL HEALTH FIELD. This is why psychiatrists have to be doctors in both. To properly diagnose and treat.

Medical doctors were being pushed by drug companies to PUSH opium. Ok some may have thought they were doing good, but prescribing an addictive medication based only on self reported pain? Thats not even ethical.

But it was highly profitable to the 1%. not so good for us poor folks though.

There are and have always been side effects to vaccines and cures, one will never get away from that.As BSR stated, you have to weight in the risk/benefit on the cure.

a little off topic, but inline what is stated. It was somewhat morbidly humorist when drug companies commercials on these aids or cures, they list the side effect, but would have a speed talker saying it or flash on the screen so fast, you’d have a hard time taking it in. But if you did,... it would be a toss-up that the side-effects of the cure is worse than the ailment itself.

It's not a tossup (which implies 50-50 coin toss) just because it isn't 100% certain. Numbers -- probabilities, age, duration, effect on earnings, and more -- matter. And treatment is not the same as cure.

The fast-reads fulfill legal requirements from vote-sensitive places. We are not expected to judge on our own, nor can we prescribe. The doctors can do both, and we have university labs, FDA and other sources of info to help them. Communication make us one world like never before. Some doctors and decision-makers will read and heed, others will do what's popular or least-effort, or profitable (but money is less important to the doctors as more med care is group-based).

As for the 1%, all the rest of us are not identical sheep. We are not all equal in ability to judge, ask questions, read, etc. Nor are we all equally poor or uneducated or helpless. It is my obligation to learn as much as I can, consider the sources, and depend on others as little as possible but as much as necessary.

Not being argument I’ve here, Same goes with the treatment... still the same, you need to weight the risk against the benefits. And corrective actions with the masses, a huge paint brush is used, so to speak. What works with one, may not work with another. The Utilitarianism form of ethics gets involved. Where whether an action is morally right or wrong depends entirely on how beneficial or harmful it will be for everyone involved, only the net balance of benefit and harm matters.

also keep in mind, doctors are human that also make mistakes, or gets lured into a group think that’s constructed by the pharmaceutical industry. You can take that as my opinion.

This is why lesson ONE in any ethics class is....

The ends NEVER justify the means.

Anyone who actually took ethics and paid attention in ethics realize there are quite a lot of types/form of ethics for all occasions, even what would make that statement null and void. Just hope you’re never put in that position.

it’s not a perfect world, and the more practical people realize that, but to tie a situation up in a the discussion of philosophy of ethics can also be detrimental in ending whatever disparity is at the time,... which is another issue in itself and upset members here in CR4. With that said, as some members demonstrated, by polluting it with emotion along with that is also as bad and muddles the situation.

As a licensed practicing therapist I can tell you your statement is just plain wrong.

Ethical behavior is not situational or open for interpretation. Your actions either are or are not ethical.

The grey area exists only in ignorance.

All wrong,... really,...

If you really impose that your an expert, you already should know, there is more then one form of ethics... There many forms/definitions along with Siri active forms and sub forms of ethics which are labeled to distinguish them apart, where one form of ethics would contradict with another form... you’re trying to use ethics as one definition, and if your in this field, you should already know that is not correct.

And if your don’t, maybe, just maybe you need a refresher course, or get out of the office and get into real life because your looking at ethics as one definition and are not aware there are more then one definition of ethics. And doing so, using your word is ‘ignorant’.

And then to have a layman like myself pointing this out to what should be an expert, must be upsetting.

And because of imposing anyone that disagrees with you as ignorant, out of curiosity enlighten me, which form/definition/label of ethics are you referring to?

And now you see why America is in such a bad shape.

Not everything is negotiable.

Not everything is open for personal interpretation.

In professional circles there are things known as Standards of Practice. Violate them and you loose your license.

It really is that black and white.

Right vs Wrong.

Simple stuff, really.

Like a lot of licensed ‘professionals’, you have rules and if you violate them, you could lose your license,...

Sounds a lot like a drivers license,... A lot of people with drivers licenses, shouldn’t be driving.

think about that...

yes, it really is that black and white. We have something we both agree upon, that’s something we can work off of.

I don't need to "think" about it. It is my mission to call out people who are dangerously wrong. I was brought to that mission sitting in the ER while my wife fought for life. A battle she had to fight because a Phd psychiatrist with a god complex didn't want to accept a diagnosis from a "lesser" mental health professional and over prescribed antidepressants. This cause my wife to go suicidal. She lived, I met some of the best people in the process of suing that quack and taking his licenses. (I don't need to work BTW but I get bored easily)

This is why I do not waver in calling out wrong even when unpopular.

I’m very sorry to hear that,... I feel the same way of what you did.

That Phd that you referred to, which I’m sure was also licensed, should not have been driving... so to speak.

I'm one who believes the spirit of the law overrides the letter of the law - in most cases.

How do you feel about this?

I believe some of the biggest problems we have in America is that we follow the letter of the law to justify doing something that isn't right.

I believe it's okay to be mean to someone if it's going to help them in the future - goes against being mean to others. Boot camp is a great example. Make men out of boys - you have to be tough on them, because in a real war, it could mean a lot of other men losing their lives.

Can you read my response to the post you responded to and let me know how you see it? I'm curious if you see the first instance being the ethical one or the second. Or are both unethical and the saleman should've taken the high road and been honest and let the customer walk out without buying what he needed to get?

I'm on your side on this one.

Here's an example: A salesman's job is to provide a product to his customer - preferably the best product for his specific need. Most customers are not the best listeners and most have preconceived ideas, though they may not always be correct. If a salesman stretches the truth, with the intent of making sure the customer buys the right product for him, then one could say it's ethical. The goal is met. If you asked another person, he may say its unethical, because the salesman should've been honest and allowed the customer to buy the product that he wanted to. Though in this instance, the salesman sold him the wrong item.

I took Business Ethics in grad school. On the first day of class, the professor asked for someone to "assist" him by keeping track of interest levels of the students. Nothing wrong there. A gal I know volunteered and was given the task - this was for the entire semester. After class, I asked her why she took the job. She told me that she's had him for a class and that he automatically gives and A to the person who volunteers.

Not very ethical, though one could argue for he that ends justified the means.

You nailed it. The big pharmas entice the doctors with all sorts of perks. One can argue that a football player can be enticed by a sporting goods company, however there is one big difference; we look to our doctors as professionals who will give us the BEST treatment they can, not the one that's best for their pocketbook.

I agree with a lot of what you say. I'd like to add that most doctors prescribe a certain medicine because of the rep. A good friend of mine was a rep for one of the big pharmas and he told me all about the wining and dining that went on.

I do agree that pharmas should not advertise to the public. The public has no idea. Yes, we all feel sleepy at times during the day. However it doesn't mean you have narcolepsy!

We were watching the tube one evening when we saw one of "those" commercials. One of the side effects was lymphoma! Cancer is a side effect? How does this stuff get past the FDA? Ummm ... never mind ...

But no one is trying to treat COVID with opioids. And no one is going to get rich off of hydroxychloroquine since it is so cheap.

ps, I gave you a GA, because you made me laugh (very hard) and laughter is good medicine!

Good question.

1. Yes it's good to express opinions even if they don't affect decisions. We can learn from others, and especially challenge our own ideas. Polarizing commitment paralyzes judgement, makes us targets of extreme positions, including fear and distrust of science as "humanipulated."

2. Yes healthcare workers first, even if they don't care for COVID today, they may be tomorrow, and there are few enough of them already.

3. Here's a problem with old people no-one mentioned: (I am 87) When it's our turn do we get vaccinated in order of age, or alphabetical, or any other order? There are a lot of us. And we are less useful to society than we were many years ago, when people needed to know more of what we knew. I am still working, helping factories make their products including some things that feed and shelter us. Should I go ahead of other seniors who spend their time watching TV or on a beach somewhere in retirement? Toss in the influence of those expecting to inherit the old people's investments, and you have a very furry situation.

4. We seem to agree to put the younger ones who probably won't die anyway last. But they are precisely the ones who most need to risk (a desirable trait otherwise) and are more likely to go maskless and testless, though they can be asymptomatic carriers and thus angels of our deaths. Do they have any responsibility to protect us by continuing to restrain their habits = smaller in-persons, masks and distance, and open and unashamed acceptance of the science we do know, which is a lot?

Awesome!

Back in the 1990's, I owned a retail business. I had a lot of elderly clients who came in to use our services, but rarely bought anything. The biggest profits from our business came from sales, while some repair work or remaking things could also be profitable. The least profitable was what the elderly would come to us for. In fact, much of those services was break even at best and was just a service for the community (and hopefully it would give shoppers some time to see our merchandise while they were waiting).

What I learned from speaking with the seniors is that they're a treasure trove of knowledge. Not things like which version of Windows Office should I use, but instead some of the most trusted, tried and true advice! I was in my 20's and early 30's and most of my friends were cruising bars or chasing girls. I was working crazy hours so I could retirement young; I wanted to enjoy life without the worry of earning money.

Many of my senior customers felt that their purpose in life was done and the current generation had no interest in them. I told so many of them that I appreciate everything I've learned from their generation and I believe that the greatest gift they can give is to share their wealth of knowledge with the children. I told them to volunteer at the Boys and Girls club. Or at the local school. Or church.

I don't know if any of them did, but I have such appreciation for how classy and graceful their generation is. How much grit and determination they have, but they silently accept things without the need or desire to be in the spotlight. I sure do miss my conversations with them!

And to the point of your post. I love reading not only what you wrote, but how you wrote it. Now more than every, we need to re-learn how to be "good" people and how to socialize. Right vs wrong. Making sacrifices not just for ourselves, but for our neighbors, community, city, county, state, country and world. We have more financial wealth than in the history of man, but our morals and values are on the verge of bankruptcy.

Thank you ever so much for your post!

So where are we?

They can work out any issues in real time on camera.

• CEO's and family members of drug companies..
• Politicians (sorry
• Lawyers fellas)
• Members of the biased media
• People who wear sweaters on warm days
• Bill Nye (why not?) he's like Mikey
• anyone who wants the "vaccine" in medicine or otherwise

All the above streamed live of course..

And after a few months or years.. the people "most at risk" if they wish.

A fellow Chicagoan!

Give them all the vaccine first - that's my idea. If they take it, then there's a good chance it's good ... unless there's a antidote for the vaccine!

Bill Nye! Oh my!

I didn't see Lightfoot in your list, nor AOC or Pritzker.

First please educate your self on the facts concerning any vaccination. Then look at the alternatives for your own personal safety. The following is cut and pasted from one of my emails and is not used for profit that I know of.

In the past numerous lost souls have bashed me for mentioning MMS or Chlorine Dioxide. HOWEVER recently Ecuador was given permission to use it on COVID victims with the stipulation that only those with 3 days to live. After 100 were selected and given an IV protocol at the end of 7 days the last one walked out of the clinic with ZERO fatalities. Next was Peru to give CD permission with the comment "REMEMBER YOUR OATH" next problem they had was no one in the clinics all were cured and returned home. Then Bolivia gave it a go and based on the results with CD MMS they became the first country to make CE MMS legal. THIS IS MOST IMPORTANT.

Here is the article I cut and pasted which my research convinces me is the truth.

All of those considering taking, or being bribed into taking this vaccine, with the promise of freedoms restored that you already had and have conceded... 1) You do realise this is not a normal vaccine, yes? 2) You recognise that this permanently and irreversibly changes your DNAl? 3) You fully understand that this has never been done before in the history of mankind and there is not a single person on this planet who truly knows what the outcome is? 4) You are totally aware, that if anything does go wrong, you have no come back and cannot be treated? Just checking you know what I know, Also if you still think Covid is real and very dangerous then ask yourself these questions; Why are GP's not isolating? dying? Why are frontline staff not isolating? dying? Why are police officers not isolating? dying? Why are soldiers not isolating? dying? Why are bus drivers not isolating? dying? Why are most hospitals empty? Why are testing centres empty? Why is it that 96% of people testing positive are mask wearers? Why is it bacterial pneumonia is on the rise because of mask wearing? Yet it's kept hush hush. Why is it that large conglomerates can stay open whilst small businesses of the same industry are bullied into shutting? Why is it that the BBC was funded by Bill Gates to peddle pro Covid propaganda? Why is it that the biggest censorship campaign is now in force? Why is it that if you even question the narrative you believe the earth is flat and that lizard people exist? Why is it that the 'Great Reset' is being openly advertised yet people still deny it? Why is it that in Wuhan people were dropping dead in the streets yet it's happening nowhere else? Why is it that the mainstream media are using crisis actors and dummies to peddle fear? Why is it that our police force has undergone a huge militarisation? Why has police brutality skyrocketed? Why are the fact-check websites funded by the same elites that are funding the media for pro covid propaganda? Why is Google blacklisting well documented science that disproves all this pro covid science? Why is Google blacklisting anything that questions the narrative? If this virus was so deadly then why; Would you need a test to tell you that you've got it? Why are graveyards and crematoriums not overflowing? Why are hospitals not overwhelmed to the point of everything else is fully cancelled? Why are people not dropping dead like in Wuhan? Why do you need an app to tell you to isolate? Why has China gone back to 'normal' without a vaccine? Why has Covid-19 never been isolated? "Hell on earth is looking in the mirror and wondering what could of been" The next stage of the Covid1984 Operation is to "deploy" the vaccine amongst the public. The "authorities" know that a lot of people who accept the lockdown measures and who accept wearing masks to "protect the common good" are unhappy about having rushed vaccine injected into them. So to deter them the media is now in over drive to portray those with reservations as "dangerous anti-vaxxers". Despite the fact that a lot of people with reservations are not anti vax, not anti science, not anti medicine or pharmacetical drugs. They're just anti not having a choice about whether to have this vaccine or not. By labelling all Covid Vacine hesitant or refusers as crazed anti science conpiracy theorists it creates an US vs Them dialectic that will then be used to create a conflict where those who say no to the vaccine will be blamed by those content to roll up their sleeves and have it for preventing the country from moving out of rolling lockdowns and "back to normal". Articles like this are programming the minds of people in society to "choose a side" which can then be pitted against each other and via the divide and rule technique ultimately control us all. How about we respect one another's right to choose what we do with our own bodies and decide for ourselves whether we have the vaccine or not rather than force one another's choice on the other instead? They are called "our own bodies" for a reason.... we own our own bodies. Our bodies are our property and as such no one else has the right to tell us what we should put in or on our bodies. Those claiming that right are saying in not so many words that they own us and have the right to control us against our wishes as that is....slavery. So ‘Moderna’ have come out with a better vaccine which is 95% effective .... Remember my prediction back in April? I said out of hundreds of companies across the world, Moderna will be the ones who bring this vaccine to market!! How do we know this? Because it’s all planned!! Moderna have NEVER brought a human vaccine to market before, they are also using RNA which has NEVER been used in vaccines before and they were bailed out of bankruptcy in 2010 by wait for it Dr Fauci and Gates!! (Year might be wrong but it’s close) Shall I tell you why I think they’ve never brought a human vaccine to market b4. I think it’s because they never planned too, look at their name ‘MOD e RNA’ they specialise in modifying DNA by using RNA! They have been waiting for this moment for years!!! The time has come ... no one knows what the side effects will be after a few years (I have my own idea what will happen when you mix a virus with human dna but I’ll leave it there for now) Please just look things up for yourself, start with the history and set up of the MSM because knowing they’re lying to you is step 1. Things are going to be hard for the ones who don’t accept this vaccine but no one should sell their soul to the devil (literally)." Keep safe people!

Dr. Wesley A Kitikonti

With the miracle of the internet, Google, Linkin, and all sorts of other search tools it is amazing there is no trace of a Dr. Wesley A Kitikonti anywhere on the World Wide Web.

or is it?

Possibly my mistake from not checking the so called Doctor. This does not mean the questions are a mistake so now I suggest ignore the so called Doctor and check with Bolivia and possibly Ecuador and Peru.

Hey, I just Googled "MMS or Chlorine Dioxide" (Just for grins and giggles). Apparently there is a grand conspiracy or deep state that indicates it is a really bad idea. /s Is anyone up to cross referencing by Boolean "and" search any of the countries mentioned and MMS or Chlorine Dioxide?

I also found this link on how to use a particular brand. As with the Covid vaccine, perhaps those that advocate its use should be first. /s

How to Use Oxine AH (revivalanimal.com)

This is the reason I'm torn. My sister sends me all kinds of things like this. She's a doctor and she said that wearing a mask too long has many negative effects on a body. She laughs when I tell her that I see bike riders (not the casual types, but good athletes) wearing masks - same for runners and hikers (ones that pass me on the trail and I'm in decent shape).

The reason I asked for your opinion is that I don't know. My gut is telling me to avoid it, but I'm not sure. If the people who engineered the vaccine, the management who is in the know, our politicians and CEO's take it, then I'll probably fall in line too, because they're putting themselves in the line of fire.

And I do questions why our governor is now wearing a mask in private (he was caught not social distancing either), but in public it's a different story. Also, in another post, 50% of the deaths are due to 4% of the population - the vulnerable ones.

Finally, when the governor goes on TV and tries to scare people about Covid (a young gal is widowed because her healthy 20-30 year old husband died from it), that's arguing from a point of extremes and I've learned to be very leery. If it's that bad, you don't have to. Yes, many people are dying from Covid and it has caused a world economic stalling. Though if you step back, the picture becomes very clear and you can watch the world change, right before your eyes. We're living it and the change isn't Covid, it's how we're responding to it.

Politicians always argue from the extremes. Otherwise no one would be scared enough to listen to their banal drivel.

While all the above argument is taking place the UK has now passed 350,000, or 0.5% of its population.

>500,000 now and ongoing...

10 times more people have been vaccinated now than have died from it.

That brings some reality into the equation.

I'd give you a GA, but the GA gatekeeper said I gave out too many today, so the next time I'm here, you'll get one!

Thanks for sharing!

Sorry guys and gals, but I come in here like a tornado, because my work schedule is super hectic this time of year.

I did leave work early today and I'm catching up on social things.

I may not agree with every opinion, but I appreciate all of them. As I've written many times, you guys are the smartest group of people I interact with. And I get diverse responses - I love it.

Happy Holidays to everyone and my deepest, sincere thanks to everyone for spending time out of your busy schedule.

We're seeing it, frontliners, old in institutions, key employees, etc. That won't be changed.

However, I worry about the young, who will mostly recover or not show symptoms, and are therefore most willing to take risks (maskless, close contacts, travel, crowded gatherings). Risk is an admirable trait in our cultures, especially among men.

They will be at the end of the vax line, but we can "vaccinate" their minds now, and thus save lives by paying some attention to them. Stress social responsibility -- more for all if we cooperate, and that has nothing to do with socialism. Get model figures to say it takes courage to know and admit fear and avoid its causes. Women, too, can say risk doesn't impress them as much as such courage, and we are better protectors if we have open eyes rather than closed minds. This contradicts the born-in need to believe in impossibles but that's what science and engineering must overcome.

There is something I have been wondering about....now the virus uses these spikes to invade cells, because there is an docking location on the cells that excepts these spikes...so the docking locations are for certain proteins on the cells....now the vaccine floods the body with these fake spikey pieces that clogs all the receptor docking locations, won't this then block the normal proteins that use these docking locations for who knows what....so it seems the cells must consume the spikey pieces, because life goes on right....right?

That’s possible,... one has to look at what are the spikes inially used for.

As I understand it, and correct me if I’m wrong, those ‘docking spike’ are almost like keys, they can’t just dock on just any docking spike, it has to for a lack of a better word ‘fit’ correctly like a key, I understand, it’s the same with HIV.

I may sound cruel and cold hearted for our more sensitive members, and you know who you are, what we have learned so far and are still learning from this virus, can really advance our knowledge on the treatment of viruses. Unfortunately, we are still learning... good and bad about the treatment.

Another question about what is fair and right:

If there are unknown long term effects, who should be the guinea pigs? One thought is the older generation, because they're more susceptible to dying from this and if there are long term effects, their lives are limited. The other thought is to treat the front line workers, because they need to be protected right away. However, if a 35 year old has some long term effect from the vaccine, they're now a burden to society for a long time. And if there are too many who are no longer productive in that field, then how to we fill the holes they've left?

I don't have an answer to this, but we should be thinking in these terms also.

I don't know enough about it to comment, but what you post does make sense.

Or maybe it's a selective blocking and only blocks the Covid virus.

A client of mine was diagnosed with Covid last week. He started feeling irritable, lost his sense of smell and taste and felt like a flu hit. This weekend was the bottom and by Sunday evening, he felt fine. Except for the lack of smell and taste.

When I asked him how bad it was, he told me it feels different than a flu. The inability to smell and taste is bothersome and he has a concern that his senses won't come back. Body aches like a flu, but they focus on a weak spot on your body. Some coughing, but not too bad. Fatigue. Fever, though not high. And the irritability - the smallest things would get him upset.

He's in okay shape, but definitely not an athlete. Not super active either. Though no immune deficiencies he knows about.

This is the first person that I spoke to before the peak, during his illness and after recovery. Each person responds differently, but knowing 100% that he had Covid and has recovered so quickly with only flu like symptoms, it has me scratching my head again. The 335K deaths - are they people who died and also had Covid (someone who has Covid, but dies of a stroke, heart attack, cancer, etc), someone who has Covid and another illness and the cause of death is a combination or deaths due to Covid only.

I just read this article, https://khn.org/news/how-covid-death-counts-become-the-stuff-of-conspiracy-theories/ which I think is accurate. If it's correct, we really don't know what the true count is, for the three reasons I outlined above. Maybe someone here can clarify.

A couple of months ago, I came down with a moderate-to-severe head cold, stuffy nose and the post-nasal drip stuff. No fever or any of the other COVID symptoms so I wasn't terribly concerned. I figured 8 to 10 days and another cold would be passed. About three days into it, I lost my sense of smell. I could still taste, but smell was significantly muted, maybe completely gone. I became concerned, not necessarily about COVID but there are other viruses that attack the olfactory nerves and cause permanent loss of smell.

We had been visiting with my son and his wife and our one year-old grand-petri-dish a few days prior to the onset. And I am not shy about getting down on the floor with the grand children and play.

Given that I had very congested sinuses, I wasn't panicking about the loss of smell figuring all the nerve receptors were simply over-whelmed with the infection. After the congestion eased, it took about three or four days and my sense of smell did gradually return, thankfully. After a week plus a little, everything was back to normal.

However, this was the first time that I can recall having lost my sense of smell with a head cold, so it did get me thinking.

Have you had an antibody test?

We think we had it at our house last January/February, but it could've been a flu. My better half was in and out of bed for about five weeks, body aches, slight fever, terrible sore throat (she thought it was Strep throat, but the test said no). I had a strange sore throat (mild) that never got worse. Though I did feel like somethings wasn't right in my body. She took an antibody test in August and it came out negative.

No, we haven't done any of the antibody tests. I've been reluctant to do so since their track record haven't been particularly good. Why spend money on a questionable test? What I understand, is that the antibody test is most likely to be accurate if performed shortly after the symptoms are experienced.

I'm pretty certain my wife had COVID back in early January as result of being at the 2020 CES (Consumer Electronics Show) in Vegas and then attending the National Association of Catastrophe Adjusters (NACA) conference also in Vegas, the week after CES ended. There may have been just a few people from Wuhan at the CES.

For a day or so, she experienced fever, headache, chills, overall aches, shortness of breath, and then a dry unproductive cough that lasted about three weeks. But back then, unless you were dying, the doctors and hospitals didn't want to see you, so she was never tested when she was symptomatic.

I didn't see her until late January so it was likely she was not contagious by then, although I did get a dry, unproductive cough for about two days in early February. (may-be ?? I did, but I kinda doubt it.)

I was diagnosed with COVID-19, it seems to work in stages for me,... started with typical flu systems, my wife made an appointment for me to get tested.

I started to prepare myself, so many people feel others are obligated that other should take care of your healthcare,... or the government should should be responsibility with a serum. Waiting on your doorstep as some member here demonstrated and posted.

it started with the flu, after 103 temp, and typical flu symptoms,... that is actually the easiest. What happens next is the ‘killer’, and that respiratory issues. Fortunately, I had my wife pick up cough suppressant. If it wasn’t for this,... I can see why death rate is so high.

After 17 days since diagnosed, (over 3 weeks since the first systems showed up. My lung capacity is still about 50%-60%,... I’ll have a day or two that sets me back where I’ll just sleep.

health department called last week, and tells me what to expect,... they say, I’d be immune to it for 90 days, yet, some health officials deny that. But, it appears to be getting better.

the bottom line is, if your at the high risk,...

• Reduce your risk, DO NOT PUT YOURSELF AT HIGHER RISK,
• prepare yourself and your family, if you succumb to it.
• Remember, the best person to take care of number one for your treatment is number one. Stop depending on the government to take care of you,... the government can only create the best environment to deal with it, it’s still up to you to implement it. Too many are crying that the current administration isn’t doing enough. (They created the environment to creat a vaccine to this pandemic within 10 months, unprecedented)
• avoid exposure to others,

for me, I’m looking at the end of the week, to be at 80%...

Thanks,... just thought I share what I experience.ps.

interesting enough,... I did a lot of traveling in 2019,... some to the west coast,... (Seattle, Washington in particular)

I had the flu back in October 2019, but it was different, now, I had flu. Before when I was in my teens, this was different. I had mild respiratory that carried to the following March. When I called in, they suspected I had COVID-19, I never tested for antibodies, but self isolated.

at that time, I finally scheduled for a doctors appointment, company was PO’d because I had a plant upgrade at that time,... that when I decided to quit. A fellow 2 weeks younger then me, haven’t seen a doctor in 6 years, he came home from Charlotte, and found out he had stage 4 cancer... I called the company out on that...

back on topic, I just heard on the radio, that what they learned from COVID-19, they discovered, they could create a vaccine to fight the common flu with one vaccination and be immune no matter how the virus evolves. This new vaccine, will strengthen natural defenses (T-Cells), it sounds really promising.

here’s a link. It’s from last September, but there were so many people, that when you state facts, data and research on this,... they like to derail it, by claiming, the deaths, what about the deaths...

but then again,.. there will always be these people, in stead of finding a solution, or how one can help deal with the current problems,... they like to derail this and muck down advances by feeling sorry for themselves.

I've heard about the T-cells and how they help fight the virus.

There is some information out there regarding why some people can contract the virus, yet remain symptom free. This is still all very much in flux. One of the interesting tidbits, but I don't think has been fully vetted, is the blood type issue. I seem to recall something in the data that suggests that Type O blood types have less severe symptoms than other blood types. Not sure what the mechanism would be, but it is interesting none the less.

Hawvahd Medical says no

https://hms.harvard.edu/news/covid-19-blood-type

but other sources say yes/maybe

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20201014/your-blood-type-may-predict-your-risk-for-severe-covid-19

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-19623-x

And there are lots of others out there as well, these were just the ones that Google deemed acceptable to be listed.

Of course I am at risk for being banned or suspended for posting misinformation and having my accounts removed and listed by Forbes so that I can never be employed again . . . <sigh> When will the madness stop?

The optimist says the cup is half full. The pessimist,half-empty. The engineer asks "how much is in the cup?" Numbers matter. These are not Yes-No issues.

At first it was "Flatten the Curve". I actually liked the idea and I saw it as a good strategy. If we don't do something, our hospitals will be over run and more will die. Though we'll be over it much sooner. Or we allow the virus to be passed around, but we control it by slowing down the interaction between people. We keep it open as long as we're not at risk of overcrowded hospitals.

Somehow it changed to "Save Lives". We missed an opportunity to keep things under control, yet keep the country moving.

Then "Follow the Science" became the new catch phrase. For science minded people, we had a good laugh. What science? Oh, the "new" science, where facts change based on the flavor of the week.

The marketer asks "where did you buy the cup and why did you choose that specific one?" The accountant asks "how much did you pay for it and how can we write it off?" I ask "what's in the cup and can I have some?"

I heard the same thing about blood type. I haven't done any checking, but I heard it from someone/somewhere.

The other day, I heard that people on anti-depressants are also found to be asymptomatic.

Though I don't know if taking anti-depressants is a good thing ...

That's a pretty cool idea.

Many years ago, my better half had Non-Hodgkins Lymphoma. She was given 6 doses of a 4 chemical chemotherapy - it nearly killed her, but it also killed her tumor. Since her cancer had a high recurrence, they put her on two years of Rituxan, a monoclonal antibody. I learned a lot about how they work - it's pretty much a singular (mono) cloned antibody that goes through the body seeking out certain types of blood cells that are around only when there's cancer in the body. The Rituxan attaches to the cells and makes the immune system attack the cancer cell. This is going back nearly 20 years, so my memory may be off, but I recall the lab checking for T Cells in her blood. It had to do with her cancer - if there's cancer in the body, the T Cell population is higher than normal (fighting the cancer), so it's a signal that cancer is there. Again, I could be wrong about this, but this is what I remember. Anyway, when I read your link, I thought about her Rituxan and how it helped keep her alive - 19 years and still no cancer!

Thanks for sharing. Great information!

I was thinking the same thing. A light exposure could keep the antibody on the alert.

My sister, who is a doctor, told me that isolation isn't a good answer to the problem. She said that the body will not be on the alert, so when it gets hit with Covid, it's not prepared. She used the analogy of a kid who is "mommied" and doesn't play in the dirt - when that kid grows up, his immune system hasn't seen enough and doesn't know how to fight off things.

Thanks for sharing. I hope you're well now.

Thanks,... almost all back to normal...

That's great to hear. I was told by a client of mine who is a respiratory doc that people who had reduced oxygen levels from Covid should get outside and breathe in a lot of fresh air. Pushing physical levels a bit, but not overdoing it. Open up the lungs, that what he said.

Stay healthy and I wish you a full recovery!

1.3 million passed, or around 2% of the population...

>1.5 million, or 2% of population...

>2 million, or 3%...

2.83 million or >4%...

Charles Barkley believes that since NFL and NBA players pay so much in taxes that they should receive priority for vaccinations. You can't make this stuff up.

What about actors, musicians and You Tubers?

What silly son of a bitch is running this operation ( excerpt from Patton )

I went to the us space command site to see the jobs listings,

Facility operations specialist : The primary purpose of this position is to serve as the facility operations specialist for a medical treatment facility characterized by equipment and facilities with complicated technical requirements that have no clear precedent or plan . ,,,

Does it pay well?

4.6million, or >7%...

So far, we have - in no special order:

- Medical staff

- First responders

- Elderly

- Front line workers

- People at risk (due to health issues)

- Congress

- Scientists, managers and C Suite of the company who created the vaccine

- Children and grandchildren of the last group (above)

- Basketball players

- Actors, musicians and You Tubers

Earlier this week, I heard that the people who are making the decision (who gets it first) are being racist. They've chosen people in the medical field, because there are fewer blacks who work in that field. Also, somebody messed up really badly, because nobody took count of the ethnicity of the people who have received the vaccine.

We're having trouble coordinating the vaccinations and now we need to track the ethnicity? What next - how about LGBQABC's? Or income levels? Are we allowing enough people on welfare to get the vaccine? And are they getting the Moderna version over the Pfizer? I WANT TO KNOW!!!

from the “Virology Journal” which is the official journal of Dr. Fauci’s National Institute of Health, published in 2005.. so Fauchi knew all along that Chloroquine worked for this virus.

“Chloroquine is a potent inhibitor of SARS coronavirus infection and spread”

Martin J Vincent, Eric Bergeron, Suzanne Benjannet, Bobbie R Erickson, Pierre E Rollin, Thomas G Ksiazek, Nabil G Seidah & Stuart T Nichol

Virology Journal volume 2, Article number: 69 (2005)

Here is the paper:

https://rdcu.be/ceVBj

Thank you for the link. I read the article. It was a lab study based on standardized monkey-kidney cells. Its results are why further trials were done with humans. Fauci was responding to those human trials, which didn't prove efficacy, rather than relying on the older lab work. This is what science is all about.

PS. There are no side-effects in a lab study. The FDA revoked emergency use for COVID treatment because of unquestioned heart-rhythm side-effects critical to A-Fib survivors and a known risk to users for malaria treatment. Also, chloroquine is not the same as hydroxychloroquine. Small chemical differences may be critical; ethyl vs methyl alcohol, carbon monoxide vs carbon dioxide, many more.

I got the same info when I read the article.

However, do you feel Fauci has done a good job informing us and guiding us in the battle with Covid? Do you think he did a good job protecting seniors in assisted living homes?

two separate questions with separate answers

Yes Fauci did a good job informing us, especially facing an understandable tide of feelings against what he was saying. That's why I said that was what science was about, not just relying on what was done first, especially if it's what we want to hear, but constantly adding to information and revising opinion if necessary. There is no holy gospel. Goes for my opinions too, but I need to see bases for doubt as much a I needed bases for my opinion.

No, the assisted living wasn't his job, as the homes are separately, often privately run. He didn't have the power and we didn't even have vaccines then. We all wanted and still want useful treatments, but wanting doesn't make it so. If his judgment was not based on evidence I would fault him, too.

Lastly, re masks vs vaccines, of course the congressmen were wearing masks AND maybe vaccinated, as (a) vaccinees can still be carriers as well as the youngers that may not die even if they catch It, (b) we olders still want max protection, as 90% in a lab still leaves 10%, and (c) it has become a symbol of accepting discomfort in the interests of the groups we belong to and hang out with. We do this all the time in other ways, and I see it as strength not weakness.

I recommend reading this article - it was in the AARP magazine in December. https://www.aarp.org/caregiving/health/info-2020/covid-19-nursing-homes-an-american-tragedy.html

The article seems to be genuine. I like how it follows the timeline of Covid in senior living homes. To me, it was very upsetting to read. A few years ago, my mom had a tumor in her brain and she had an operation to have it removed. It left her off balance (they went thru her ear) and weak from the procedure. After leaving the hospital, the doctor sent her to a home to recover and receive therapy. The first place she stayed was not good. I recall visiting one night and I heard a lady crying for help and the staff in the hall did nothing - that is until I came out to check was was the matter. When my mom was in PT, my sister saw the technician put mom on a sit down bike and had her pedal. No instruction and mom's form wasn't good. The therapist walked away to "hang out" with other therapists. I was super pissed when I heard about this and I spoke to my sisters and we agreed to pull her out. We found another place that was much better (it came recommended by two of our neighbors). 1 on 1 PT, nobody left in the halls or crying in their room. Not perfect, but very acceptable and mom did much better with her recovery.

So, after reading the article, I can see how bad it could be. I feel that Dr. Fauci, being an expert on infectious disease, should have done a better job. I don't recall him being critical of the senior living facilities, but with such a high morbidity rate, it should've been an obvious place to start. I also recall him saying that New York got it right, but the AARP article says otherwise.

If a person claims to be a scientist, yet he makes too many erroneous claims, then I don't consider him to be one. Take my field, for instance. I've been in the auto consulting business since 2002. If a client asks me if a Toyota is a good car for longevity and low cost of ownership, I'll tell him yes. In the next breath, if I tell him that a Range Rover will be as reliable, last as long and cost about the same to keep on the road, then he buys one. A month later, the car is in the shop for rattling trim. Next, a sensor goes bad and throws a CEL. Then the touch screen starts acting up. The bluetooth loses connection with the phone ... The client replaces the Range Rover at 7 years and $20K in repairs - and not even 100K miles. He's upset with me and comes to my office to ask why I took him off the Toyota and put him into a Range Rover. If I tell him "oh, I changed my mind and now Range Rovers are not desirable". He'll be pretty upset, because he came to me for professional advice. Just like we were given Dr. Fauci, the professional. We wanted his expertise, not him throwing out advice, then changing his mind. The only difference is that my mistake caused my customer to lose some money and time. Dr. Fauci's mistakes caused many to lose their life.

He's not a dumb man, but his actions say otherwise.

Something I learned quite a long time ago. Smart people do research which includes speaking with experts and fact finding, then they analyze and make a decision and stick with it, unless new data says otherwise.

So, a well versed, intelligent medical professions (doctor), keeps flip flopping as the country struggles with a virus? And where was his help with the seniors in health care facilities?

I don't know why he acted the way he did, but my opinion is that he failed and there's a financial reason he did what he did.

Hey AB,

The change you are percieving is HOPE. Been so long without it we don't recognise it.

Don’t waste your time.

’HOPE’ has been an abused term it no longer has any meaning,... just like transparency, racism, liars, et al...

Stop depending on the government,... live life, and do your best.

As far as, ’HOPE’, its up to you and each individual to Make ‘HOPE’ Great Again.