This Motorcycle Runs on a Water-Fuel Mixture

I have seen (on national TV) a man filling the petrol tank of a car with tap water, dropped in a tablet and drove off. You should have seen the reaction of the pump attendant.

But that was the work of a prankster acting for a movie. He actually had 2 petrol tanks fitted to the car.

Please find some documentation.

Hello Raymond Weisling,

Most of these "Water Power" situations are hoaxes or scams. (I have yet to actually find one which really works)

There is an old basic Law of physics, which states you cannot get out more than is put in.

To dissociate Hydrogen and Oxygen from water to get gases which give large amounts of energy when they re-combine, takes more energy that you actually get as a useful output.

I presume the Inventor is using a piston type engine.

Remember the most efficient piston engine is the external combustion engine invented by Robert Stirling - Details available

However, there is a possibility that the Inventor, if not "cheating", is using water/methanol spray injection into the cylinder, to extend the heating expansion pulse, (Similar to Cetanes and waxes added to diesel fuel as flame extenders), and some of that water can flash into steam, giving higher torque at the output.

Note that warplanes used that water injection years ago, to give extra power boost in emergency. Engine lifetime did not matter, because the plane was often destroyed before the engines wore out.

That above principle actually works, but the engine life is shortened, because of corrosion and lubricating oil contamination.

The major problem is one of corrosion, because a standard petrol or diesel engine is NOT designed to have water injected, which creates steam in the top of the cylinder, also over-stressing and corroding bearings whilst doing so.

Personally, to believe the Inventor, (And my name is NOT Thomas {from Doubting Thomas}), I would need to test the rig on a dynamometer, (Checking for RPM/HP or kW/Torque curve at output), under laboratory conditions, after a very careful inspection.

"Inventors" of such machinery, always seem to have an extra fuel source hidden, often a fuel tank inside a fuel tank, or inside a pipe frame.

As stated in the above reply, further details are appreciated.....

Hot Dog! I haven't gotten to use my Damon Runyan quote for almost two weeks.

"One of these days in your travels, a guy is going to come up to you and show you a nice brand-new deck of cards on which the seal is not yet broken, and this guy is going to offer to bet you that he can make the Jack of Spades jump out of the deck and squirt cider in your ear. But, son, do not bet this man, for as sure as you are standing there, you are going to end up with an earful of cider."

Damon Runyan from Guys and Dolls

I don't know about an engine, but I heard of some research being done with oil heat. They were mixing oil and water and putting it through an ultrasonic nozzle, and the resultant burn generated almost as much heat as the the same amount of oil alone. What they discovered was that the oil was forming a bubble around the tiny water droplets. This increased the surface area of the oil, which would burn, and turn the water to steam.

I can't attest to if this is real, or if it would work, or if this would be possible to use in an engine. Its just some initial research I read but never saw a follow up on, its on the same topic, so I thought I would share it.

I don't know whether this is relevant or not, but during the war (39-45) I was working in a factory where heating was a problem (difficult to get heating fuel in England at the time). We developed a method of burning waste engine oil mixed with water, dripped onto a hot plate in the stove. Worked well, providing that the heat and drought was controlled. The point is that an oil and water mix can burn if conditions are right.

Right here go's: Way back in the early 1900s an Englishman by the name of Hodgkinson invented the six-stroke engine! This engine used petrol as its main fuel, but after the exaust stroke a small amount of water was injected into the hot cylinder, the resulting high pressure steam then produced another two strokes. This system was quite succesful, but it never caught on at the time as there was an abundance of cheap oil. May be now it is time to revive some of the older technologies like this one.

Spencer.

There was a an article in popular mechanics (I think. It might have been popular science) not too long ago about a man who had built a six stroke engine. The extra power stroke being steam.

This is an article about the engine

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060227/FREE/302270007/1023/THISWEEKSISSUE

reminds me of the time when the Heads had been to China & seen a steam boiler running on a water/furnace oil mix-50/50- said to cut fuel costs by 50%- well the mix duly arrived in 44 gal drums- my job was to get the boilers to run on this mix- well despite best efforts, over several weeks, there was no way that mix was combustible- it wouldn,t even burn when a lit oxy/acet torch was put into it!- AND- WOW- the effort needed to clean that boiler system, to revert to standard distillate fuel!!!. The 50/50 mix had the consistency of tar- when water enters the oil of a car thru a faulty cyl hd seal, crack etc, the mix becomes creamy white &thick- useless for anything!- won,t burn/ lubricate as needed - the whole thing of using water as fuel is utter crap- unless there is a breakthru in splitting into hydro/oxy- though I admit that powdered alum in water/caustic mix produces abundant hydr/oxy, enough to run i.c. motor- but needs development to be safe.

Water and hydrocarbon mixtures can use the exhaust heat to undergo a chemical reaction called endothermic vapocracking; a process well known in the petroleum industry (92% of world hydrogen production is like that). They also call it reforming (check for fuel cell operation). This is usually done in presence of a catalyst.

Voll Johannes Bosco's Fuel economy comes from thermo-chemical exhaust heat regeneration.

A guy from a petroleum institute told me that in most engine development centers the principle is known but what keeps car manufacturers from applying is the rusting inside the engine. I don't know everything about the subject but I certainly plan to know more about it.

Enjoy

Back in the 1970's we had engine add-on kits that used a small copper chamber strapped to the exhaust pipe to convert water to steam. A vacuum valve controlled the amount of water dripping from a small water tank into the hot chamber. The resultant steam was then injected into the fuel line after the carburetor. Perhaps it was the increased density of the fuel/air mixture that gave the engine increased horsepower. I got a ten percent increase in mileage with my alcohol/water mixture. It wasn't worth the trouble back then because gasoline was so cheap. Four dollar per gallon gasoline is still cheap. The availability of natural gas and alcohol fuel should keep gasoline prices below ten dollars per gallon. You can also halve your gasoline expenses if you drive half the miles.

Hello Guest,

"Four dollar per gallon gasoline is still cheap."

At that price, your gasoline is heavily subsidised.

I suppose you realise that the real price of gasoline should be around US$26 per gallon.

Time to start a horse breeding program, pronto, Tonto.....

Hi I'm Pandu from Indonesia

Last day i saw also a news in our television program about vehicle (2 ford ranger, 1 mazda six, 1 bus, and 1 truck that carry the blue energy fuel) convoy from Jakarta to Bali using water they called it blue enery, the fuel contain 100% sea water that already modified through cracking water molecule into H+ and O2 with some catalysis to chain into desire carbon.

Amazingly we don't need to modify the engine just use conventional engine, the fuel can replace gasoline, diesel fuel, and other with the same machine that is using fossil fuel. the mazda six used by Indonesian police can run 180km/h without trouble using this blue energy fuel. The inventor is Joko Suprapto, he said that this fuel is cheaper than fossil fuel, the estimation price is about half US$ for 1 liter and 1 liter can run for 15 km.

This is not hoax, everybody in Bali that join United Nations Climate Change Conference is the witness of this new invention, I hope this will be the solution for next generation, so we are not depend with fossil fuel anymore...

Hello Pandu,

If that is really true, then it will be a surprisingly good thing.

You say "the fuel contain 100% sea water that already modified through cracking water molecule into H+ and O2 with some catalysis to chain into desire carbon."

Unfortunately it is not possible to change H₂ and O₂ into "desired Carbon", either with or without catalysis.

Please give a website link, so further examination may be done by interested persons here.

Alternatively, please advise TV Station details, and approximate date of programme shown, so the TV station may be contacted, thank you.

Time will tell.....

well, I'm still looking for english article for this hot issue, almost all article in Indonesian language, try search with key "joko suprapto blue enery bali" in google, if you find indonesian article and there is written BBM=Fuel air laut=sea water, i don't know much about chemistry so i don't know the fact H+ and 02- can change into carbon or not, maybe I'm wrong perception.

the news that i got is www.metrotvnews.com you can search there "blue energy" but again it is in Indonesian Languange, according to the inventor it will mass production on April 2008, if there is no problem in testing this new fuel. Maybe you can ask CNN or Reuter about this news they must be attended in UNCFCCC.

Regards

Pandu

Hello Guest,

Thanks for those references, all I need is an on-line Indonesian to English translator....

"according to the inventor it will mass production on April 2008, if there is no problem in testing this new fuel"

Perhaps the day of revealing is to be April 1st 2008.....

I don't have enough time to translate those article, although I already translate those article maybe you still don't believe me, perhaps Raymond Weisling can help me to explain to you, I think he is in Indonesia right now and know about this issue.

Nope it's not April mop, our President Mr Bambang Yudhoyono already knew about this invention, he asked mr Joko's team to build refinery for mass production as soon as possible.

It's very strategic move when we try to build refinery for processing this new energy and I'm optimist about this new energy, as you know that oil almost 100US$/Barrel and this new energy will be threat for some country that depend to fossil fuel for their business i.e. USA.

Actually it's also threat my company, now I'm working in Indonesian National Oil Company, but for a better world I'm ready to support this campaign...

Pandu

Hi Sparkstation.

He didn't say change H+ and O2 into carbon!!! He said that they chained it to a carbon atom of some sort.

Remember that some of the best ideas have come from the most unlikely of people, the stirling engine for example, Robert Stirling was a church minister.

Spencer.

Hello Scapolie,

Yes, I was aware of Robert Stirling being a Presbyterian Minister, thanks.

In those days the Scots were great Engineers, Inventors, and Innovators, taught to have enquiring minds,and produce useful things to make life for the Common Man & Woman somewhat better.

Today, with all the "Media Saturation" (TV, DVD's, CD's, Cellphones, Faxes, Phones, Radio/Stereo, Ipods, Walkmen, Computers, the list goes on....), most people are not taught how to think things out logically, or think for themselves.

Instead they are taught Political "Korrektness", Social Science, Mediocrity and similar rather useless Subjects.....

I googled blue energy and got this Wikipedia link. Interesting. if there's this much potential energy there it should make some oil interests extremely uncomfortable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_energy

Hi all,

Being slightly interested in the Bio Fuels scenario, I did some googling on the issue. Especially the Joko Suprapto reference. And I came to this site:

www.biosmeanslife.com

I could not check it out due to some IT related issue that I will rather not discuss in the open.

Anyways, I think it looks interesting.

TC

December 5th, 2007, filed by Alister Doyle

By Adhityani Arga

Reuters Blog

Gasoline made from plain water? An Indonesian company says it's possible.

In a lavish ceremony held on the sidelines of this week's U.N.'s climate talks in Bali, the company launched a range of gasoline and diesel products under the name "blue energy" witnessed by Indonesian president Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono himself.

Just days before the launch, Indonesia's environment Minister Rachmat Witoelar said that the country would have "its own fuel made out of plain water".

Five cars, pumped with "blue energy" that have made a 5-day trip from Jakarta to Bali went through a pollution test. The result: 50 percent lower emissions on average.

Yudhoyono dubbed this "a winner for Indonesia", cheered by the crowd in white-blue uniforms, while songs, written and composed by the president himself, played in the background. The company's chairman said this could be Indonesia's way out of the oil economy. In short, it's a magic fuel.

But the magic faded.

The fuel is essentially a refined form of the liquid waste you get from oil drilling that would have otherwise have been pumped back underground. It has some element of hydrogen but it's clearly not plain water.

The science behind the new fuel is a bit of a blur. Chairman Heru Lelono admitted that this wasn't new technology, in fact, many have done this before. The fact that the scientific explanations spread across the advertising panels were drowned by the patriotic jargons ("The Fuel of a United Indonesia" for instance) didn't help either.

Critics said the fuel was over-hyped while others cautiously applaud the effort, saying there needs to be more testing done and that the science behind the magic needs to be put under public scrutiny.

Lelono took the criticism lightly. With strong political backing (the president co-founded a charity that later became the core of the company) he has set his aims high: to replace fossil fuel with water and reduce Indonesia's emission. All he needs is a few billion dollars.

"All he needs is a few billion dollars."

Sounds vaguely familiar.....

Just as I thought, a Money Scam was behind all the baloney.

"nuff said....

Hi Sparkstation.

Yes, there is always a catch somewhere, MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

These countries involved are not short of a dollar or two, all they have to do is get rid of the leeches and hey-presto the monery is there.

Spencer.

This is an engineers website so I expect technical talk instead of money talk. Use your training to identify how it is working based on the elements you get instead of blaming other to be ignorant or having wrong ideas.

I found the following about Voll Johannes Bosco

Oil price has almost reached US$100/bbls and has been successful in putting the world's fuel-eating industries on the edge of their seat. This same phenomena has also triggered interests on alternative forms of energy sources.

One of them, turned out, to be water.

A high-school graduated inventor from Palu, Middle Celebes, Indonesia, had modified his motorbike to include a special "reactor-pipe" that will accomodate reactions between octane (main component of common gasoline) and water to produce methane that will be automatically burnt by heat generated in the engine.

Voll Johannes Bosco, a civil-servant working for Radio of Republic of Indonesia (RRI) is the one now famous for this seemingly miraclous invention. He said he began developing the engine because he was concerned by the fact that fuel prices have been steadily increasing for last several years. He and his 8 colleagues then experimented on various modifications and finally able to conceive an engine design that is able to produce energy by using fuel that is 4 parts water and one part gasoline.

How it is done:

1. Mix 1 (one) part gasoline and 4 parts (gasoline.
2. Pour the mix into fuel tank.
3. Start the engine. Modified carburetor than supply needed air into the engine while not supplying gasoline vapor. Gasoline vapor is channeled into a reactor-pipe adjustable by valve and then mixed with air-supply to be ignited by spark-plugs.
4. Exhaust fumes produced by gasoline-air reaction then redirected into the reactor to be reacted with water to produce methane that will be burnt to produce energy.
5. Because the exhaust fumes are mainly converted into methane, the final emission of the whole process are mainly water or oxygen.

Bosco, whom his friends call Boy, is now aiming to create 100% water-fueled engine. He is recently met current Indonesian President, Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono who gave him salutation.

Bosco claimed the fuel efficiency is 1 liter per 200 km. The engine itself has been tested okay to travel 247 kilometer (153 miles).

And also :

Bahan Bakar Alternatif
Sepeda Motor Pesanan SBY Itu Memakai Bahan Bakar Air

Sepeda motor ini pesanan Pak SBY," kata Voll Johanes Bosco alias Boy (51), perancang sepeda motor dengan bahan bakar yang sebagian di antaranya adalah air.

Di tengah kemeriahan Gelar Teknologi Tepat Guna di Manado Convention Center (MCC), Kamis (8/11) petang, Boy tidak sungkan-sungkan menyebut nama Presiden Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono. Ia mengaku sempat mengejar Presiden hingga ke Yogyakarta hanya demi mempresentasikan energi alternatif untuk kendaraan bermotor.

"Waktu saya ke Jakarta, Pak SBY sedang ke Yogyakarta meninjau bencana gempa bumi, sehingga saya disuruh menyusul ke sana, lalu dinaikkan pesawat Hercules ke Yogya," katanya lagi.

Boy merasa diperlakukan khusus, sehingga ia merasa tersanjung. Di dalam pesawat, Boy hanya bersama empat orang, selain awak pesawat.

Lelaki berjambang lebat ini pantas mendapat apresiasi besar. Meski hanya tamat sekolah menengah atas di Manado, Boy yang berdomisili di Palu, Sulawesi Tengah, itu menemukan sepeda motor hemat bahan bakar. Kendaraan roda dua itu telah diuji coba sejauh 247 kilometer, dengan campuran satu liter bensin dan empat liter air.

Sebelumnya, Boy selama 10 tahun telah meneliti sejumlah peralatan hemat energi. Dari 11 kali penelitian, ia fokus pada penemuan lampu hemat listrik dan sepeda motor hemat bahan bakar minyak.

Jika di jalan orang memakai lampu merkuri dengan daya listrik 250 watt, Boy bisa menciptakan lampu yang cahayanya setara lampu merkuri dengan kapasitas listrik hanya 12 watt. Lampu itu disebut dengan lampu light emitting diode (>small 2small 0<).

Demikian halnya sepeda motor yang 80 persen menggunakan bahan bakar air. Menurut Boy, sistem kerja sepeda motor sangat sederhana. Akan tetapi di beberapa bagian mesin sepeda motor ditambah reaktor mirip pipa besi. Saat sepeda motor ini berjalan, suhu reaktor mencapai 150-200 derajat Celsius.

Boy mengatakan, setiap motor bahan bakar menghasilkan gas buang CO dan CO2 (karbon dioksida dan karbon monoksida). Pada mesin ini kedua gas diambil dan direaksikan dengan air, sehingga menghasilkan gas baru methane (CH4). "Nah, methane inilah yang menggerakkan motor," katanya.

Adapun energi untuk menjalankan reaktor diambil dari panas gas buang, sehingga pembakaran menjadi sangat efisien jika tabung reaktor mencapai suhu 200 derajat Celsius. Gas buang yang dihasilkan sangat ramah lingkungan.

Boy tentu tidak asal menciptakan. Temuan sepeda motor berbahan bakar air telah ia presentasikan kepada beberapa ahli di Departemen Energi Sumber Daya Mineral di Jakarta. "Saya disuruh pindah ke Jakarta untuk penelitian lanjutan, tetapi saya lebih suka tinggal di Palu," katanya.

Kemahiran Boy merancang teknologi dilatarbelakangi pengalamannya sebagai pekerja mekanik di bengkel. Boy sendiri adalah pegawai negeri sipil di Radio Republik Indonesia Palu. (jean rizal layuck)

Anyone able to translate this?

I understand:

- There is a chemical reaction in the reactor apparently working at around 200°C. A hydrocarbon reacts with water... Typically a vapocracking process. That is known technology. However I doubt it produces methane but rather expect a mixture hydrogen, carbonmonoxide and steam.

- It ran only 247 kilometer and you and I know that you can hardly calculate robust values of fuel consumption on about 1,25 liters of fuel. However the value is quite importantly more than an average of 2 liters per 100 km for an efficient 50 cc moped at low speeds and average driving. The article does not mention speed or driving profile. It surely needs more kilometers to get hard values on fuel economy.

- The aim of making methane from 100% water sounds like idiocy. Some carbon is used in the reforming process. But this information or goal to make fuel from water only seems to come from a technical illiterate and not from the inventor himself. I do not even consider this remark.

- If you guys checked the Pantone system or the Geet-Pantone or the SPAD or the Vulcano system you would find the same story , the same arguments etc. And if you search for hydrogen enrichment of gasoline combustion engines you would find more similar stuff. (2-6% in mass would be enough)

- It seems he preheats the fuel before injecting it. That requires less energy for evaporation in the chamber and leaves more energy for working stroke. Another way of improving fuel economy tested by others as well. However this increases risk of pre-ignition at higher loads. It could certainly be applied on part load. I guess he did the 247 km on part load by the way.

Hydrogen and Carbonmonoxide increase octane number of fuel mixture. I expect Voll Johannes Bosco to also have modified the compression ratio in order to improve thermal efficiency . Since he has some Hydrogen he also may have had it run on a lean mixture and reduce pumping losses. You see there are many levers to work on fuel economy.

There are plenty of laboratories worldwide working on this subject.

Have a look at this

http://www.all4engineers.com/index.php;do=show/alloc=3/lng=en/id=2866/sid=463003588475ea26767242962033117

I hope you all take a scientifical approach in the analysis of data before talking about it. And is there anyone around on this thread that actually tested something?

Here is a automatic translation of the indonesian article done with http://www.toggletext.com/kataku_trial.php

This Alternatif Sepeda Motor Pesanan SBY Itu Memakai BahanBakar Air Sepeda Motor fuel the order of Mr SBY, said Voll Johanes Bosco alias Boy (51), the designer of the motorcycle with the fuel that some of the him was water. In the middle of the liveliness of the Degree of Tepat Guna Technology in Manado Convention Center (MCC), on Thursday late afternoon (8/11), Boy was not shy about mentioning the name of President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono.He admitted to be able to pursue the President as far as Yogyakarta only in order to present alternative energy for motor vehicles."My time to Jakarta, Mr SBY was to Yogyakarta considered the earthquake disaster, so as I was told following there, then was loaded by the Hercules aircraft to Yogya," he said again.Boy felt Boy was treated especially, so as he felt he was flattered.In the aircraft, Boy only with four people, apart from the crew.The man berjambang luxuriant this deserved to receive the big appreciation.Although only was finished the senior secondary school in Manado, Boy that was domiciled at Palu, Central Sulawesi, that found the motorcycle of the fuel opinion.The wheel vehicle two that was tested to the best of 247 kilometre, with the mixture one litre the petrol and four litre water.Beforehand, Boy for 10 years researched an amount of equipment of the energy opinion.From 11 research times, he the focus in the discovery of light and the motorcycle of the fuel oil opinion of the electricity opinion.If in the footpath used mercury light with the electricity power 250 watt, Boy could create light that his light was equal mercury light with the electricity capacity only 12 watt.The light was mentioned with light light emitting the diode (>small 2small 0 <).Was like this his matter the motorcycle that 80 percent used the water fuel.According to Boy, the work system of the motorcycle was very simple.But in several parts of the motorcycle machine was increased the reactor was similar to the iron pipe.When this motorcycle went, the temperature of the reactor achieved 150-200 Celsius levels.Boy said, each fuel motor produced gas discarded Co and CO2 (carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide).To this machine of the two gases was taken and direaksikan with water, so as to produce new gas methane (CH4)."Nah, methane this that moved the motor," he said.As for energy to undertake the reactor was taken from hot gas discarded, so as the burning became very efficient if the tube of the reactor achieved the temperature 200 Celsius levels.Gas discarded that was produced very environment-friendly.Boy certainly not the origin created.The motorcycle findings used water as fuel has he presented to several experts in the Department of Sumber Daya Mineral Energy in Jakarta."I was told to move to Jakarta for the further research, but I more liked to live in Palu," he said.The Boy skill drafted technology was formed the background by his experience as the mechanics worker in the workshop.Boy personally was the civil servant in Radio Republic of Indonesia Palu.(jean rizal layuck)

For your interpretation

<4. Exhaust fumes produced by gasoline-air reaction then redirected into the reactor to be reacted with water to produce methane that will be burnt to produce energy.
5. Because the exhaust fumes are mainly converted into methane, the final emission of the whole process are mainly water or oxygen.>

OK, so what happens to all the carbon in the octane that was burnt, and then got converted to methane and burnt again?

It seems that conservation of energy would prevent running from pure water. You would be getting out more energy than you are putting into it. I think there may be some errors in the proposed chemical reactions. It would be interesting to analyze the energy that drives the reactions. It seems to be more of a complicated energy recovery process than anything.

See page 39 of 20070618_heat2power_GPC_WHR_presentation.pdf

The energy comes from the combustion waste heat flow which is about 1,5 times more important than the powerflow to the wheels in part load.

Hello Randolph Toom,

Please forgive those respondents to this Topic Thread appear to be exhibiting some measure of unbelief, re the startling new discovery in Indonesia (All Praise To The President Of Indonesia), and possibly elsewhere.

I've read the above, also your .PDF Document, particularly page 39.

That process was extensively use in old technology gasworks.

Stage 1. Coal was heated in a retort, the air input quantity carefully controlled, until the inside of the retort was red hot, and all the "Coalgas" was removed to storage, until no further "Coalgas" flowed efficiently.

Stage 2. Dry Steam was then sprayed into the retort, and the "Watergas" was removed to storage.

The two "Gases" were mixed carefully, on a continual basis, a small pilot flame instrument monitoring the calorific value of the heat, (thus the mixture proportions), and via safety control systems, automatically mixing the "Coalgas" and the "Watergas" to make "Towngas".

The small pilot flame instrument was extremely important, because a slight "drift away" from the designed mixture, could have serious implications for life and property at the distribution and consumer's properties. (explosion and/or asphyxiation)

I saw this complete process in actual operation, back in the early 1950's, when my uncle was the Shift Operator for a Municipal Gas Plant at Invercargill, New Zealand's southernmost city.

So...You have almost convinced me it is possible.........

What I would propose to you, is a properly conducted Scientific Test.

Here it is coming into the Summer season.

We have extremely varied weather and terrain here, in the beautiful South Island of New Zealand.

Excellent for motorcycle riding, and I still have my motorcycle licence.

If you could arrange for me to be supplied with one of these special motorcycles (I do hope it is not a micro-motorcycle, because I am 6ft 5inches tall),........ then I shall extensively put the test motorcycle through its paces, in a proper scientific manner.

All test results will be properly recorded, and entered into a password locked .PDF file, which shall be made available to all gentle Members of the CR4 Forum, plus any casual callers, and later, after carefully considered CR4 debate, made publicly available.

In this testing, I do not intend to "cheat", and have much experience in completing detailed Laboratory style Logs and Final Signed Test Certifications.

I intend to just report the actual riding of some 5,000kM in varied terrain/weather/day/night conditions, with load weight/angle of slopes/wind/traffic etc sensors.

To be fair, I shall not take my wife as a pillion passenger, (she gets nervous on the rear of a motorcycle, perhaps with good reason, as she fell of the back of one many years ago, not driven by me, but our older son when he was a learner rider), and she is quite prepared to stay at home, and operate our Breadmaker, and perform other Wifely/Motherly/Grandmotherly duties, whilst I am away carefully monitoring the 5,000kM test.

I shall involve the New Zealand Automobile Association, as they have the necessary Laboratory equipment for such an extensive Test, on condition that they may publish it in their monthly magazine, (With World-wide rights, of course), after the CR4 debate is completed.

I intend to take photographs extensively during the Test, and shall also make these publicly available at the end of the trial. First to long-suffering Members of CR4, I hasten to add, because of their dedication in reading this short Post.

Then after the normal period of CR4 discussion, the photograph series will be available in form of a booklet, © Copyrighted © text and © graphics, of course, with descriptive notes.

This book is intended to bring tourists to this lovely land "down under", (we need their money), and shall be on sale, obviously with a discount for CR4 Members who prove they are "fully paid up Members" of CR4.

CR4 Membership Number and Bank Account details, along with sample Signature (for verification, of course), to be supplied along with full prepayment to an overseas Bank Account, operated by an Associate of mine.

This Associate is strictly honourable, in fact "Honourable" is his first name, and he is living in Lagos, Nigeria), at the time of order - I shall arrange to remit the discount, if the ordering person qualifies, direct to their Bank Account, from the Lagos Bank, that is the best way, after many years of experience in complex International Bank transfers..........

Please note that I am sincere about my offer as given above.

I am prepared, for the advancement of Science, and Engineering too, to use my Summer Holiday Period in the dedicated fashion as described in the very brief details above.

Please do not think I am "Throwing down the Gauntlet", or "Taking up the Cudgels", both of which are quaintly archaic expressions to notify an offer to duel/publicly fight over the matter, nay, 'tis far from that.

So, please advise further, re my kind and selflessly dedicated to the Advancement of Knowledge offer above.

I trust that you carefully consider the above, and respond in a careful and dignified manner, as befits a Member of CR4 Forum.

Thank you for your sincere reply.

SparkY.....

Dear Sparky,

Thank you for your proposal. But I think you should submit it to Voll Johannes Bosco himself. In the end it is his motorcycle. Now I do not know how to join him but if you drop a line with my friend Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono he will get you through to Voll Johannes Bosco. You can join him directly at the Istana Merdeka Presidential Palace

Please be aware that by the time you finish your report whole indonsian motorcycle park will have been converted to Water-Fuel Mixture combustion process.

Have fun riding your gasoline motorcycle in Nieuw Zeeland.

just one quote "nothing is impossible" be optimist, we can make a world better, so work together to save our world from CO & CO2 emission (reduce global warming), water fuel is interesting it will replace fossil fuel...

Great job for my Indonesian Friend... continue your work nothing is impossible...

"sometimes great idea came from uneducated person, like bosco who just senior high school graduated and also bill gates he never graduated from college"

The inventor's name of new blue energy (sea water based) is Joko Suprapto... He is Indonesian...He claimed that all of the engine (gasoline and diesel) can use this method...

I believe that all great inventions have been met with some resistance but they do eventually take off. So many skeptics in this wonderful Universe where there is no competition due to the abundance of everything.

In the Philippines we have a guy named Dingel who claimed to have perfected the water fueled engine. Of course the guy never opened his car's hood to the public. But he was willing to have his car dynamometer tested. During the run (UP Diliman Mechanical Engineering Power Laboratory), we - students then - put a probe in his exhaust to check by stoichiometry the exhaust byproducts.

As expected, we found Lead, Sulfur, Carbon, Nitrogen, etc... based products. All which are products of combustion of Hydrocarbon (petrol) fuel.

We left the guy, never finished the testing, and went to the hostel and ordered some beer.

I have seen the TV and read the newspapers regarding this Blue Energy. I don't know if this alternative fuel is true but these are the facts :

- Indonesia President himself witness this demo.

- After those cars arrived in Bali, one group from UN tested the emission and the result was 50 % lower than usual.

- Indonesia President himself checked the emission by putting his nose close to one of cars' muffler (the engine was running while he did this) to try to find if there was any gasoline smell but he couldn't find it (as shown on national television)

The questions are :

- Can normal gasoline or unleaded gasoline give 50 % lower emmision than normal gasoline?

- Is there any fuel oil that can run engine well but doesn't create any gasoline/hydrocarbon fuel smell at its exhaust?

There is probability that this is a gasoline-water mixture (as others suspicion). But If this mixture can make cars running upto 180 km/hr and doesn't create smell like gasoline or other fuel oil (no smell at all - according to the witnesses) I assume that the percentage of gasoline/hydrocarbon fuel is so small and still a good solution for today's high gasoline price.

Btw, right now, the inventor (Joko Suprapto) is missing. Witness said that he went to airport with some people accompanying him and never heard from him since. Rumours said that he was kidnapped or maybe hijacked by big company, who knows..

Hello Raymond,

The inventor of mixture water and gasoline (blue energy) is Mr. Joko Suprapto, this blue energy already been demonstrate on Bali climate change on dec 2007. It's works very well and now our president lead a team called blue energy team to manufacture this mixture energy into commercial level. He is not coming from north sulawesi but coming from central java.

Very soon the blue energy will widely used in Indonesia, and no more fossil oil.

Regards

Iwan

www.coconutfloorings.com

an eco friendly company

Hello Raymond Weisling

It is a scientific absurdity to state that this is going to replace fossil fuels.

Refer: http://cr4.globalspec.com/comment/152104/Re-This-Motorcycle-Runs-on-a-Water-Fuel-Mixture

Neither Wishful Thinking, and/or Sincerity of Belief, is ever a substitute for truth.

Of course it's been on TV and elsewhere, because "several Billion Dollars are needed, to "get the process up and running on a commercial basis."

There are many con-men in the field of "green energy", "water-powered cars etc", just awaiting the credulous, who have more money than sense.

Kind Regards....

Hello Mr. Raymund,

If you wanted to see a vehicle running in pure water you will just visit philippines or search in youtube.com the name of Mr. Daniel Dinggil, he keep on doing research last 36 years ago, and now his toyota corola is running on pure water. This technology was already here long time ago. Just tell your indonesian friend that is very common nowaday.

Since 1957 their have been four occasions (that I know of) that the water and petrol powered engine with a 76% to 85% water, combining agent and petrol have been developed but for some reason they keep being made vanish and the idea of a vehicle running on little petrol (15%) UK fuel and mainly water is a very good idea but the big boy's have decided not to let this idea get hold just incase they lose hold of their grip on all of us (my own opinion). The last one was in the early 90's when an American made factor X to combine the two liquids and he stated his idea would be made public so as all could have made use it, but hay he disapeared shortly too and so did his factor X (please dont confuse with the tv program of similar name). We live in a troubled world today and the big get bigger and we stay dominated.