I doubt time will disappear any more than one of the three physical dimensions will get pulled out from under us.

Groucho said, "Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana."

If things separate in space and they do not take time then either they will be everywhere or nowhere and nothing else may ever have means to know in terms of time. Association of time with space or we can call it relative motion gets attached to all things present in reference environment other than things that are in zero time environment. Things in infinite time environment can be very good reference point but they may not exist at all or we may not know about them in our time.

And who is/was Groucho?

I have learnt that time is a wheel on which space moves ups and down and time returns to similar point but never at the same point. It is called "Samaya Chakra" or "The wheel of time". As wheel's circumference is endless, so is time. This one is from Geeta.

"And who is/was Groucho?"

One of the Marx brothers, you know, Groucho, Harpo, Chico, Zeppo & Karl.

It's about time..... could not help it.

When you talk about time in that way, partially physically, partially philosophically, it can become quite a mix of open ended questions and opinions

An example is what I opened with. did I mean its about time itself, or its time has come to talk about it.

But without time, there is nothing.

"But without time, there is nothing."

This point if we look at once again.

Whether something brings in time or time brings in things? from where time appears all of a sudden or is it always existing? Birth of time looks nearly impossible so it must exist independently.

Time is not a fixed identity to all objects in any way. How much does it change or how much it can change and can it reach extreme limits of zero and infinity? Statistically that is possible as distribution can reach such level for few things among many that follow statistical laws or perhaps we believe in that way and reality may differ.

How much does it change or how much it can change and can it reach extreme limits of zero and infinity?

So if time can equal "Zero" and time is God as you have eluded to then it is clear that at one point God did not exist. So riddle me this, if God did not exist then how did he create himself? (he/him are used for ease of reading and not intended to infer a sex onto God) So do we exist outside of time?

Your post is a good example from what I mentioned in post #3 paragraph 2. It like you can't have one without the other, or can you.

yes it can be a riddle, and I left you with an open ended comment, with very little value.

No God will ever know how they came into existence and how long they will exist unless some other superior God tells them about their origin and their future - Rigu Veda.

Nothing should exist but things exist so we can assume that things were existing in one form or the other and will exist, is within our limit of understanding.

The fascinating thing is that only our imagination exists and it somehow has a wonderful vision of time and space and its reality in no reality or false perception. In that case, as long as our perception exists, the world exists else nothing exists. Our perception in only reality. Our perception may be very complex in which we can enter into different levels to visualize many things, do many things, see many things, feel many things, become healthy and sick or even get killed and yet nothing may be true out of all that being only perception alone.

Time still remains as basic element of the perception and once time is out, perception is gone and thereafter all gone.

Our perception of self is another thing within perception. We exist within our false perception. We can also believe that many similar or other types exist along with us/me. So who is having such vision becomes another question. Perception may be something that needs no space and only time and way to perceive. Hence, time looks very critical parameter and rest of the things are only associated or created within time by our perception or my perception.

When I am talking to you, I am talking to my perceived things and that means you are not real but part of my false perception. I can have a dialog with you and you can have with me and all this is only constructed perception.

All above is from Hindu Philosophy in which our existence is false in so called Maya or false reality or confusion. This confusion is real even though whatever is perceived as confusion, is not real. Maya is real but whatever happens within Maya is not real. The only real thing is that something perceives a reality within this confusion is only real thing and whatever it may be, it is called God. So all of us are God if we can shift our perception from Maya to the self, which is only one God, whatever you may call it.So finally we are not many. As long as God is not our perception, God can not know about the self. To know God, God need to become part of our perception.

Now that we believe that this world is real, so we give no great importance to perception or God more than simple physio-chemical reaction. As our percepted reality obeys laws of physics and chemistry, we are happy to play with them in time and space associated within universe under our perception. It all sounds real so I also accept it as real like all of you do. I also live and work in this time and space in same manner. What if it is all false perception alone?

Simply put, time is what keeps everything from happening all at once. And space is what keeps everything from being all in the same place. Once, according to the Big Bang theory, everything WAS in one place. And then, all at once, it began to expand, creating the universe as we know it. Apparently time happened then. Must have, or there would have been stuff somewhere prior to there being a universe for it to be in.

Some of the commentators have mentioned that time is another dimension, similar to the spatial dimensions of length, width, and breadth. But if you create a three-dimensional axis (X-Y-Z) to represent them, you can have directionality two ways (positive vs negative, perhaps). In other words, those three can go in two directions, forward and back. Time does not (time's arrow, it has been called); time follows only one direction so far as we can perceive it.

As we understand "time", it is a measure of duration. How long it takes tea to steep, or salt to dissolve in water. Suppose we will ever decide what a quanta of time is? A duration shorter than which there is nothing? A Planck's constant of the clock? Given, of course, that Planck's constant is the smallest something can be physically...

"As we understand "time", it is a measure of duration."

Clock and time measurement have limits and once you find a faster clock you know better about time or time interval. How one can have minimum time interval? Measurement alone can not define time. Something that is being used as measurement tools is also having a finer time property within which we may not be able measure but we can not negate the very existance of changes taking place within in much finer time.

Time is irreversible. Think of sine wave oscillator. Time reverses all of a sudden when its one cycle completes. This happens in its own frame of reference but for other things this one alone repeats through its zero time.

How we will know that time has reversed or jumped to its starting point? It is just the way we define it. If you define it as arrow or jet flying over the earth then also it returns to the same point some time or the other.

I think the way big bang was defined is the explosion everywhere at once and not at any one point and then expending. Everything is expending everywhere with respect to Galaxies and within Galaxies things may differ as they are from one point origin.

Time is a dimensional measure of events. It has length but no depth or breadth. So it has no physical form to be done away with.

"Assuming that time is associated with things."

Things do not have time. Just as they don't have material part called length. Can you measure the length of length.

Best we can do is get rid of the word time for the measure of this dimension and all the other adverbs you have added to it.

I would suggest that time only has relavence to "thinking beings " and that it is only set forth by said beings as a means of measuring change. While inanimate objects (and some unthinking animate objects) are impacted by what we define as the passing of time, they would not know time as a meaningful concept. Even for the thinking being, time prior to the Big Bang would be meanngless.

So if we accept the BB "standard model" - or even one of the permutations thereof - did time start then as well as space, energy, presumably gravity, and eventually matter? Suppose the WERE time before the BB... Why not? All of a sudden (note how whatever we say about time is self-referential) there is the BB, and time goes on. If there were NO time preceeding the BB, then duration (which is a more useful term, at least to my thinking) came about with the physical aspects of the universe. We can theorize much here, but the trick I'd like to see is some empirical evidence - an experiment to test any portion of theory.

Big bang itself can not happen out of nothing. Something was happening and finally it looked like big bang or fits that model for now. That the universe emerged everywhere in space without having something causing it is unacceptable thing logically. Only stored energy emerges out as compressed spring bumps out. Something stored it and it could not hold on to it. Hence, time is always there, whether things are real or not. The history book of universe exists whether we know about it or not. Only black hole where appearance and disappearance of matter is seen, we have no way to see what was earlier to the big bang. Big bang model is energy to matter conversion and in compactness formation of larger heavier elements. If material properties are born with material itself then we will have no interaction with universe that was earlier even if exists side by side to us as properties of it may be non interactive to our matter. If we can locate factory of such elements formation in the black holes or similar sources and then can look into how these elements finally taking current shape then big bang model may not look great. Big band is easy shelter model. As there are bangs so big bang can also be logical. Only illogical is its happening everywhere without which space and separation of galaxies can not be explained.

Worst of all this is, how big is our universe and what if there is factory away that is making galaxies like soap bubbles children make. No one can say that the size of any bang can not exceed this and that.

Big bang at least has given good idea of formation of matter from pure dense energy. However, it tells nothing on how it was happening every where in such a short time in highly synchronized manner. It is only an assumption. We only see fire crackers like stars blowing off but no Galaxy forming all of a sudden. Perhaps we are not in that phase of our universe or we may have surprise in the waiting. So far so good and the moment we get an evidence one new galaxy bang, the big bang as single event will become of great doubts.

Certainly. Our expanding universe COULD be equivalent to an expanding gas bubble in a great cosmic glass of seltzer water. Immensity is relative, and on a different scale could be miniscule, and how would we ever know? Since obviously we would not, or even given a way to find out, perhaps the information could not be communicated back, it makes more pragmatic sense to deal with the things we can actually measure by the physics that apply to our scale. As someone once said in a conversation I was involved in, "if I can't eat it, kick it, or stick it with a knife, I don't believe in it". Perhaps a bit more pragmatic than even I am, but still, I usually perfer to deal with the perceivable over the imperceptable.

But that said, I do enjoy the thought experiments involved in trying to understand the "outside". Much of what I do in my career can be described as looking for edges. The edge of the universe would be the ultimate search result. Some of the other threads I have been corresponding with here lately have dealt with time (directionality of duration) and space (smallest size a space can be) and have been highly stimulating mentally.

Interesting thoughts.

Perhaps to know the edge of the universe to find difference in basic property beyond and at every edge you again find yourself in an universe around you from all sides. So we can believe we are in one universe and perhaps if there is any other universe then it is just here non-interacting with us. The moment we find ways to interact with it, it will be come one of our universe in any way. Hence, we need not search far away for the other universe. Everything we know in the form of matter belongs to us and in the form of life away from earth, it belongs to Aliens and people from else place but from our own universe.

People from different parts of the earth do not belong to each other and entire universe belongs to all of us. Funny definitions from bad dictionary I suppose?!!

My take on this is that time is a measurement we use to help define how we view the universe around us. We see everything we observe moving through time (some things at different relative rates than others), but if something was truly timeless, would we be able to observe it at all? Would we be able to understand what we were observing? Maybe objects or entities that are not bound by the constraints of time are indescribable for us...maybe we can observe their effects but not observe them directly (ie. black holes).

One day I was watching one of those specials on string theory (or whatever they are calling it now) and the person on the TV was describing the extra dimensions in this way (paraphrasing here):

We wouldn't be able to understand a fifth or sixth or tenth dimension since we only observe four (3+time) in our day-to-day lives. It would be like living in a truly two dimentional world and having a three-dimensional object puncture a hole in it...how would you see/understand this three-D object that just came careening through your world...you wouldn't, you would just see a hole appear (we imagine).

So maybe time works in a similar way, while we can theorize about two dimensions or 11 dimensions, we always see in three. Even a proton could be said to have three dimensions, so I'd challenge any scientist out there to SHOW me a two-d object. And don't say, a picture or a drawing, because they too have depth/thickness when considering the ink used...Just another thought on the matter.

Time is one thing to engineers and scientists. It can be something else in the business world. I once worked for a company where their time clock was five minutes different from the world standard time. When I suggested that they synchronize their clock to the standard, they told me to synchronize my clocks to theirs.

Someday, probably in the U.S.A., business leaders will convince the government to mechanically and electronically cause clocks to run slower between six am to six pm and faster between six pm to six am. The productivity of American workers will increase. A coal miner who can dig sixteen tons of coal in a twelve-hour shift can then dig twenty tons of coal in a twelve-hour shift. He will burn more calories and his muscles will ache more, but his paycheck will remain the same.

When we get into space travel, we can perhaps reach a star that is ten light-years away in just one year without exceeding the speed of light. It should not surprise us to find that twenty years have passed on Earth while we have experienced only two years in our space ship. This phenomenon might seem like science fiction now, but it will be commonplace in relatively only a few years hence.

funny, as an engineer trying to make a deadline, you can actually feel the time ticking and slipping away.

I work in quality control which is the bases for my signature.

Shyam, I believe time is quantized, along with gravity, and both are aspects of everything. In Fact, I believe they are aspects of a single, absolute elemental particle. I will explain:

Imagine nothing! Nothing has nothing. No mass, no gravity, no dimension, no light, no width, no depth, no length, no energy, nothing. It is what borders everything, (in an omniversal sense). Nothing simply does not exist! Now if you were to place 1 single absolute elemental particle into nothing, the space this particle takes up would be something, but surrounding it would be nothing. Not forever stretching outward, but only at the border of the particle and nothing else.

This particle would have gravity, because all mass has gravity. It would have time, because everything which exists, exists in time. Since time is relative to velocity, the rate (forward or backward) of time is dependent upon it's velocity. But since this one particle is all alone, with nothing around it, then it cannot have linear velocity. It can't "go" anywhere because there is nowhere to go in nothing. There is no other point in existance as a reference. But, It could have angular momentum, as it could refer to its own self in reference to it's own movement through time. There is also nothing to stop it or even slow it down, therefore it's angular momentum could be infinite! Time and gravity are quantized, they are aspects of every single particle and the gravity and time which we understand is the combined interaction between all particles, everywhere!

Add another particle and now you have a reference point. If these two particles bumped into each other and accelerated away from each other, there would be nothing to slow them down or even restrict their acceleration, except for their own gravitational pull, (or push) of each other. Therefore it is gravity which restricts velocity, or better said, gravity controls the speed of light. If gravity in different galaxies is different, then the speed of light would be different as well! Their velocity could reach infinity. Between them would be "space". The vaccuum we see up there would be created by these particles speeding away from each other. With two particles in existance, they would have to be connceted somehow, as you could not have two seperate particles, each alone in nothing, for there would be something else from the perspective of each particle!

That is time AND gravity, how they are viewed and affect us depends upon mass and velocities, which ARE the chaos of the omniverse!

It would sound and feel like a horrible thought if time was God or GOD, if I were to answer yes or no, but I don't have time to tell you.

In time, ... more Ill add tommorow.

I was hearing some verses of Gita and in it God's words (written by men from their thoughts) are that entire creation is within God and creation is dynamic or creation is embedded with time, ever changing and its life and death does not alter God, and also does not affect the other things that are born or die as whatever is born will sure die and whatever dies now or later will also get born again. Time and immortality is embedded within God. No form is very important and all forms are bound to show their character as they are constructed of things of character, but this character is not permanent as after death one is reborn in another character which is from what it may contains.

If life and death cycle is painful then God is in pain all the time. The only question hurts me more is that why there is anything at all, including me? and where from we all came or appeared here or are here for ever and where is this universe in which we are? Were time, space and material within, born or ever existed. If they were born then they may die as well, as death is known fact. Now that death is known fact, birth is also known fact so finally it is perpetual. Perhaps time is not perpetual and is ever lasting thing so we can call time as God or one basic parameter or property of God.

Shyam,

Many physicists believe there are 10 dimensions of space and time. Time is not a dimension, it is a factor of the other nine dimensions.

We exist in the first three dimensions. We see time as a forward progress. Time exists for us in the current, present time. Everything which has happened is past time and everything to come is future time. We intuitivly understand time as forward progress because in the first three dimensions, everything which exists, progresses forward in time.

In the 6th dimension, everything which exists, exists in only one "time-frame" at a time, yet it can exist anywhere in time, and travel throughout time. The balance of the sixth dimension has no "elapsed" time as we know it. Time is balanced between forwards and backwards in time in the 6th dimension.

In the 9th dimension, the rhealm of god, time is truly infinite, as God exists in all dimensions, at all times!

Time is the relationship and LOCATION of anything and everything to anything and everything else, (relativity). Velocity is the rate of change of time. The greater the velocity, the less the "rate" of change. (relativity)

So I wonder now, of "Time" as the basic parameter or property, have the questions and answers addressed this area alone , enough to satisfy the thread topic.

Am article I saw in the news today, reflects something I read and heard in assiting in "Time Travel", as

Jan 9, 2008

Casimir effect goes classical. http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/32380

Saving Time; wHAT ELSE COULD DRAW SOME NOTIONS HERE?

Dimensions are like you degree of freedom to have different shapes the way you see in 3D. You can change the shape of things up to a limit. Time if it was one directional then things have no way to come to same shame ever again and there are infinite shapes in that case. It is against to what we see. In infinite disorder, order formation or quantization becomes obvious. Saturn's rings will turn into its planet slowly and in same way the rest of the universe has shapes. Only space is very mysterious about which we have no knowledge except that it does not interacts with us.

This may be the area we work with as if we set up the chart of flow from positive to negative, or which ever-point an "a" flows to a point "b", that is when "Only space is very mysterious about which we have no knowledge except that it does not interacts with us.", I think a truer concept is that we set things up in use of some theoretical physics that show some result TO TRUST and BANK by Choice; that is a tangent I believe is "we dont know how or why space interacts with us, but it does". Biblical - Moving mountains, Holywood-Groundhog Day or Twilight Zone, Fairy tale-Christmas Carol, ...

GUEST = Ole_Ship (I thought I was logged on; or in)

...extending my thoughts descriptions by the following:

scales- .1)relative .2) irrelevant

a)Measurements; b)Barriers; c)fulcrums;

a-1)past a-2)present a-3)future

b-1)claustrum; many more..

c-1) throughput

could be miniscule, and how would we ever know? Since obviously we would not, or even given a way to find out, perhaps the information could not be communicated back, it makes more pragmatic sense to deal with the things we can actually measure by the physics that apply to our scale.

comment #31 GUEST = OLE_SHIP (OFF THE SCALE of Login)

Don't know why login failed twice but here it goes with multi-explainations

Theoretical Physics come to mind with Guest comment #23 "The miniscule could be.." and may never be as a way of defining the times to "lets don't and say we did" and visa~versa "do and say we didn't" where that's not applied to a lie, but is applied to where the truth exists and the standards show no exemption of an exception to a rule; the odvious that seems ignored by the scale and neglected by the jurisprudence surrounding the law; ie. The Constitution (keeping in mind "GOD", "Government" and "Time" - what place has law under a constitution, and what place has constitution under law; Liberty i.e. ON LIBERTY by JOHN STUART MILL 1860 Harvard Classics Volume 25 Copyright 1909 P.F. Collier & Son; Jurisprudence of that which is reasonable but where by term "jurisprudence" is absent yet connected by links that by tangent are a constituent and where by morale jurisprudence is understood-the defined the focus yet absent by written word as in this findlaw:U.S. Constitution described casing (Main Index > Cases and Codes > U.S. Constitution > Fourth Amendment previous | Annotations p. 3 | next Valid Searches and Seizures Without Warrants and on to Detention Short of Arrest: Stop-and-Frisk .--Arrests are subject having a standard required to be met and where it must be satisfied by conditions existing prior a person has been seized ''only if, in view of all of the circumstances surrounding the incident, a reasonable person would have believed that he was not free to leave.'' 18 This reasonable perception standard was subse quently endorsed by a majority of Justices, 19 and was applied in several cases in which admissibility of evidence turned on whether a seizure of the person not justified by probable cause or reasonable suspicion had occurred prior to the uncovering of the evidence. No seizure occurred, for example, when INS agents seeking to identify illegal aliens conducted work force surveys within a garment factory; while some agents were positioned at exits, others systematically moved through the factory and questioned employees. 20 This brief questioning, even with blocked exits, amounted to ''classic consensual encounters rather than Fourth Amendment seizures.'' 21 The Court also ruled that no seizure had occurred when police in a squad car drove alongside a suspect who had turned and run down the sidewalk when he saw the squad car approach. Under the circumstances (no siren, flashing lights, display of a weapon, or blocking of the suspect's path), the Court concluded, the police conduct ''would not have communicated to the reasonable person an attempt to capture or otherwise intrude upon [one's] freedom of movement.'' 22

Soon thereafter, however, the Court departed from the Mendenhall reasonable perception standard and adopted a more formalistic approach, holding that an actual chase with evident intent to capture did not amount to a ''seizure'' because the suspect did not comply with the officer's order to halt. Mendenhall, said the Court in California v. Hodari D., stated a ''necessary'' but not a ''sufficient'' condition for a seizure of the person through show of authority. 23 A Fourth Amendment ''seizure'' of the person, the Court determined, is the same as a common law arrest; there must be either application of physical force (or the laying on of hands), or submission to the assertion of authority. 24 Indications are, however, that Hodari D. does not signal the end of the reasonable perception standard, but merely carves an exception applicable to chases and perhaps other encounters between suspects and police.

Later in the same term the Court ruled that the Mendenhall ''free-to-leave'' inquiry was misplaced in the context of a police sweep of a bus, but that a modified reasonable perception approach still governed. 25 ...

...to me this is just a case to read on a tangent of its own and too muchh for this 'time"

c-1) throughput #31 , draws my mind to think of something simpler like "Thusput" to some etymology of spute sput and throughput.

Well, space is not a table on which you keep things. Space is unlimited in terms of dimensions. Space is within all things, inside and outside.

With only minutes to spare before tomorrow extends untill today's limit at 6:00, my more to add note must take more thought to " it always exists like God. Then let me call it God. If there is no time then there is nothing else either and if there is time then all things also come with time to serve time....If you know more about time then write down here. Your entry is most welcome.

Untime.

Time remaining 00:01:00

(editing update)

WARNING! You are only allowed to edit your posts for 15 minutes from the time of original posting. That means you must submit your edit by 12/17/2007 6:14:21 PM, which gives you only 5.7 minutes!

Now the time is at hand; editing may erase a mark in time that holds the historic record of my post tomorrow that was to be by 6:00 pm today, with only the short time showingI now add more to the mystery by recalling Merlin.

The untime of Cherokee Propecy;

Cherokee Prophecies

WARNING! You are only allowed to edit your posts for 15 minutes from the time of original posting. You needed to be done by 12/17/2007 6:14:21 PM, which means YOUR TIME HAS EXPIRED! Sorry!

Well , it seems I'm back again today for another post.

Time flies; "God's speed to Godspeed", my hope is that my words lean conversation to understanding of God's and not having to explain it.

Everthing in its time.... kjv "everything in its time".

The Lord has made everything in its time (Ecc - 3:11)

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=simple&format=Long&q1=in++time+&restrict=All&size=First+100

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=simple&format=Long&q1=+time+&restrict=All&size=First+100

God's Timing As wise Solomon wrote, "He has made everything beautiful in its time" (Ecc 3:11). ... The Bible says that you can "redeem the time" (Ep 5:16 KJV). ...
www.tbm.org/timing.htm - 37k

The Alpha and The Omega are one. 1.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS TIME.THERE IS ONLY AN ARBITRARY (MANMADE CONCEPT) DURATION,A MEASURABLE QUANTITY BETWEEN ANY TWO INSTANTS OF ZERO TIME/DURATION. SAMAY ANANTHAHA (SANSKRIT)!!

PLEASE VISIT MY WEBSITE www.artecrobotics.com to get an overview of my mindset.

Regards

There is nothing called zero time for two distinct things or events. They need to be just one event to be called in zero time for both for understating but no way to know any such zero time happening. To observe any two things and to perceive by any means that there are two things makes it impossible without consuming time and simultaneous is a falls impression of human visualization for simple living. It is perfectly all right to believe without measuring that before happening to happening takes zero time, however it may be a completely falls information.

Please read my reply again. You are refuting what you are saying. An instant consumes zero time.Between two instants there is DURATION only and no such thing as TIME.Duration is unfortunately mistaken for TIME-an arbitrary concept to try and "quantify" for the sake of human transactions, Scientific or commercial. This is based on DIURNAL Rotation of our planet ( a variable quantity of DURATION).

Hence, Space-time is also Rubbish!!

If time parameter is removed then objects fall in one line and some are superimposed as they lose identity of multiplicity and bring in uncertainty of their forms to be identified in one form. Time is a wonderful parameter that separates then in multiple forms. Photon to material and material to photon is time based link else by superimposing then we neither have photon nor material. as identity. We can not know them separately. Time merged for the entire things sure going to make it worst and knowledge terns to null or void.

Just imagine that you had a nice meal and then you make time to vanish. Then all of a sudden, your meals, its ingredients and you all become one merged object forever and these all different things have no separate meaning as there is no time for them to separate in forms. Time is form locater, however they may become one again in time. Forms alone are not time but their sequence happening is time. Yes, the time duration is a relative to forms and no separate identity. One of the form is the blink of the perception by means we know things.

I can't debate to the people who wrote books and not to those who read thoughts of some one else. It is better to feel think and debate. This one way can open understanding a bit better.

When food vanishes into the stomach, it loses its form.Where then is the FORM SEPERATER? Who needs form seperation after food is merged with the person's stomach-except a lab analyst??

SEQUENCING is a LOGICAL operation and TIME has nothing to do with it.

r u serious. Time is how everything is compared to everything as everything changes. Location is the one element of time which most fail to understand. Life is another. Time doesn't just measure sequencing. It shows the difference between everything and everything. EITHER FORWARDS, (AS WE CAN DESCRIBE IT) OR BACKWARDS. Time DOES go backwards to infinity just as it goes forward. It does so now and will to infinity. It does so in a way (not in a circle as we know a circle), that everything in the cosmos has a relationship to the past to infinity and to the future to infinity. Everything has always been, yet is new. Everything will be forever, but is no more now. It is far more complicated than your simple logic. BTW, sequencing definately DOES have everything to do with time.

I think it is TIME that you understand that there is no such thing as TIME.All PARAMETERS created by mankind are only for attempting to understand the INEXPLICABLE phenomena with a LIMITED BRAIN and that too severely UNDER UTILISED.

Despite all the efforts of puny man, the STUFF OF THE UNIVERSE is still as dark as DARK MATTER.

It is this very arrogance of man that he can explain every thing by MANIPULATING EQUATIONS (using arbitrary parameters) that propagates the delusions under which scientists labour.

"...there is no such thing as TIME..."

Perhaps there is not. But there is something that imitates it very well. Many arbitrary years ago, I was not. Then, I was born, and now I am (or at least I believe I am). Many (hopefully) more arbitrary years from now, I will again no longer be. Something, whether time or its imitator, has been making up the duration between these things. If this duration is not the passage of time, then what is it? I suppose if we called it bread, or phupht, then we could say bread has passed, or phupht has passed, but we call it time instead. Does that make it more arbitrary? Granted our brains and intellects are limited, granted too that the Universe is a large and complicated affair. Still, time or its imitator passes even as you read this. If not, then what DOES happen?

You got it some what right. Think time and objects like flow of blood into your body system. Small cell can take any path, act in between their birth and death and finds different paths in same system of their life. If they do returns to same known area then also it is not the same for them in time and space as the zone for them is altered or the system (the body) in which this is happening is altered and which it can't identify.

Assume that you go into space mission and by the time you return, a black hole eats the earth and re-arrangement make mars to come at the place of earth. Now when you return, do you find yourself at the same place or not?

In similar way, when you return and if nothing happened to the earth then are you back in past time or not?

In both conditions, time and space have altered but can be considered not altered if you like it that way.

Now look at a crystal with atoms, you heat and cool and its atoms migrate and yet your diamond remains a diamond, your diamond, same diamond (or altered diamond). Is it same with respect to time and space for us?

Both time and space have very relative meaning and such meaning only helps us understand the things we are looking at and also for things or changes we like to ignore. Are you same that you were born to your mother then why you have same name when you are very different now?

Salt remains salt or water remains water even if you make its fragments physically and not chemically so taken as same for practical purpose. However for a physicist or chemist, water at 4oC is different than all other water temperatures. I don't think you will hesitate to drink that 4oC water. Perhaps you won't drink heavy water, as there comes greater knowledge at rescue and fear to survive.

The trick to understanding time is to understand that everything in the cosmos changes. It all is constantly changing. It is the change between EVERYTHING and EVERYTHING in every manner which is measured by time. The rate of change is inverse to the rate of time, (as we normally percieve time). Why this occurs is for another thread. Yes, the difference between two objects, as they alone change, on opposite ends of the cosmos, would constitute time. Time exists because something exists.

As for change in your scenarios, you can't believe even your location is not altered. I can consider that white is black, but it won't make me right, even if I don't know the difference.

We are rotating on this planet, traveling through the solar system, and around a supermassive black hole in the center of the milkyway galaxy, throughout the universe, (and who knows what else). Throughout eternity, we will never be at the same place again, (not alive on earth), much less the same in relation to everything else.

Time evolved in the thought process from the our possibility to see change and to retain its image in mind for a while. Then we numbered the changes and we got hold on count of increasing time using simple mathematical logic. Then we used the capability of the brain to perceive space between what we can see and what we can not see but understand as space to manipulate time interval also between observable and not observable. Then we projected it to so fine level and beyond our capacity to ever count it making it infinitely small fragments. These are our mental capabilities in the form of ideas evolved in the brain. Brain makes us to realize real and also imaginary look like real. You can think of image shape and colour in it in the mind itself. They need not be the one ever seen by you. Think of blind man having the same capability in the mind. In India "Surdas" a blind-man has sung more coloured songs with clean description in praise of child God Krishna than any one else could do with all day light vision.

"the capability of the brain to perceive space between what we can see and what we can not see but understand as space"..

.."..You can think of image shape and colour in it in the mind itself.."

.."Think of blind man having the same capability in the mind."..

Myself ; Thinking of the blind man; thinking about an understanding of light being energy and our thought being both energized and of energy, that our thoughts could have some mass and weight though carried or caired by ourselves and something outside of us; in that once the blind man who was blind from birth recieves sight, do his visions of colors..., what would define the differences in the two?

Some time you think you see yourself in mirror. However, you see yourself in your brain only. The Brain has capability to link what it is seeing to something it imagines to be outside the Brain. Person with vision in eyes perhaps related the imagination to external objects much easily with respect to the focus point of the eye. Blind man has to relate to other senses like touch, smell or sound to what it one is seeing inside the brain. Imagination of the brain becomes more stable for blind man as they are not affected by dynamic state of eye as primitive sensor interfering with brain perception rapidly.

What we see thru brain using eyes, also needs verification by other senses like touch, sound, heat, pressure, vibrations etc. Without verification, picture on paper, image thru mirror and the so called real will be all alike.

the Study of Creation

An image and how I came across it... "

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Natural Time & Supernatural Time

Of "Some things" or "all things" we can not know all, but without "all we need to know", can we still can have the understanding?

If we did or any one of us would go back to the same place at the same time then possibly everyone did at that same time and we only gain understanding, or only those that are in that second(#2) same place and time know only of their current existance as if the 1st one never did; while in that one's same place, the place would have to be different so that they would be side by side if face to face.

Existance in time's fabric's topic in its place at its time...

Time, as we use it to measure the day, can also be measured by a relationship to any point in the cosmos to the planet Earth, (Or any other point in the cosmos you measure it from). This relationship would tell us the difference between this point and the earth. An asolute difference between these two points, as they change in every way, is measured by time. A different point in the cosmos, at a different velocity (or rate of change) compared to the other point, (or any other point in the cosmos), would have a different rate of time, compared between the Earth and that or any other point in the cosmos. This is relativity. Time is relative to the rate of change of everything compared to everything!

More importantly, Time has three rates. Forward, backward and eternal. 3 dimensions forward, 3 dimensions backward and 3 dimensions everywhere + time = 10 dimensions. Mathmatically, time can only be used in only one dimension at a time to describe time in each of the 9 physical dimensions.

Anointing with oil, is like turning on a signal flare to the heavens. It tells the Angels to give you special attention during this time.

I have never thought of that before but it actually makes very good sense.

In change of form the current form becomes important and if you to know what retarding effect the change has caused then you need the history and other left over forms also. For who what is meaningful is highly subjective An old man likes to die but young man likes to live. After death both forms have same meaning and yet they have different importance and meaning to different people Is your current for has any meaning to you? Whether it has or it has not are two possibilities and neither affect the form itself.

I understand somethings may not appear to exist or exist at all, especially in things we fabricate or manufacture or create; all where we supplied our known set of ingredients.

While there is no doubt the ingredients were put in the batter for the dough, its hard to see the eggs in the bread.

"Technology for prosperity" has always been the underlying theme at Artec.", though
I didn't read more...

..."Time" came to mind as soon as "underlying" keythoughted "judgment" and the more expected tought of "i wonder... "

(amplifying time's existance, to my perception of it, but to know more, I want to add more to other comments here too...)

ABSALUTE ZERO may be a good example of a simulation of value to equate to the perameters of "non-exists"...

"Exist"... IT MAY BE THAT IT HAS ANOTHER TOPIC OR THREAD TOO... (I haven't looked yet)

Time is a "metaphysical force" that separates events in human perception.

The only forward is by moving into the meta sciences. There are people at large who are not bound up in the dogma that science has become.

Look into "The Electric Universe" by Wal Thornhill and also "Subquantum Kinetics" by Paul La Violette. There are many other open avenues, but they require meta intelligence. The Vedas also contain some very interesting intel.

Somebody today , ""wrote something"

Please help Translate, update, time verb , time noun, calendars marked todays newest updates (new comments or direct replies to this first nline..