Goals vs Emotional Reaction

The therapy session is in room cr00...

Paragraph four.

When I was a young driver, my friends would always call me slow poke, unfortunately I've continued that tradition till today. I would counsel the untold number drivers who have got stuck behind me. This actually helped when I was a Specials driver. ( BF ) before FedEx. I, often weaved my way through the tangled mess of traffic from solvang to imperial beach, as quietly as I could, with little to no interaction with other drivers. My driving force was distance, not time. I had all the time in the world to get there, and I used it

Solvang to Imperial Beach! Wow, that's a long drive!

You have a lot of patience. Good for you, as I'm still trying to learn to be patient behind the wheel.

Well ...

Today, I had to meet a client in Riverside. I was stuck in traffic (come on, it's not even 1pm and there's traffic?) and I was getting impatient. I wasn't pleased driving behind this car - he was leaving too much space in front of him and people were pulling in front of him (the right lane was moving better, because of this). When a break in traffic came, I jumped to the right, passed the guy and jumped back to the left. Darn, that was the start of it. Next, the truck to the right was slow, so I jumped in front of him. Soon, I was moving from left to right, right to left, then in the right lane that was exiting - at the last minute, I merged back to the left. About 15 minutes into this, I saw the car I had passed, just glide by in the far left lane! All that lane jumping did no good, so I eased over to the left and stayed there the rest of the way. I had XM radio on (channel 18) and I just relaxed and listened to the Beatles! And made phone calls or answered them.

<...we're all human...>

One might not think so from some of the stuff that gets posted online...

There are many humans,but very few human beings in this world.

I like dogs much better than I like most people.

A friend of mine (With a PHD) said that a good dog would benefit people better than a psychiatrist. He had over 40 years experience in the practice.

(He was a very rare and honest man.)

"People know their problem,they just want someone to listen and be non judgmental about anything they might say."- R.Mc --(Hic Jacet,friend. Rest in peace).

"People know their problem,they just want someone to listen and be non judgmental about anything they might say."

After many years of life, I think we've all learned this - or at least we should've. My better half has been the best teacher for me.

It's funny, because as men, we're taught that we're here to solve problems, yet many times it's better to listen and don't give any advice.

Thanks for the quote!

We had a great little guy, who absolutely awesome! He lived to be 21 years old, but his last year was a tough one. He passed on Superbowl Sunday 2020.

He was the best dog and we miss him so much. I'd take him on hikes, then after, we'd go to Carl's Jr and get a meal. I'd get a bowl of room temp water for him to drink and a juicy cheeseburger! Room temp water, because he'd get sick if he drank cold water.

I read that there's one animal that can help calm humans and that's a dog. I think that the centuries of the relationship between humans and dogs has created such a bond. I know that I helped our little guy when he was anxious or uncertain.

You never think you'll miss a dog that much!

"Knowing exactly the right thing to say,I said nothing."- Mark Twain

I can't find that quote by Mark Twain?

I found:-

Malcolm S. Forbes Quote: “Nothing is sometimes the right thing to say.”

And

"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."

Is often attributed to Twain (and Hemmingway and Kafka)

^{"Author Garson O'Toole has a simple explanation for why quotes are often wrongly attributed to Mark Twain: "If you preface a quotation by saying it's from Twain, then people are prepared to laugh at it.""}

It's been that way for years!

This is my attempt is to have all of us use this forum for what it was intended. No psychological tricks, just to have us (engineers, scientists, businessmen, leaders, etc) communicate effectively. I think it's a simple thing to ask.

I also want to point out that there have been fewer people posting on this forum in the last few years. I hope we can get back to more input to this site.

I feel there folks here are the smartest group I interact with. More intelligent and knowledgeable than the average person. I feel it's a shame to let personal grudges and nastiness get in the way of camaraderie and problem solving.

That's my two cents. I'm off the soap box!

Object lessons are always the hardest to teach to grumpy old guys.

You said, "This is my attempt to have all of us use this forum for what it was intended." Good luck with having ALL of US do anything as a group. Never going to happen.

Finally you say, "there have been fewer people posting on this forum." Registration has been closed for some time now.

I'd rather talk about proper thread engagement, or removing rust from steel than my feelings. I do miss my dogs though.

I accept and salute you.

We all are susceptible to our emotions. When our emotions cause us to react badly an apology should be offered. Apologies are not a sign of weakness but strength. This forum could do with a few more strong characters.

Overpriced.

A good dog....priceless

You said it!

Cats can be pretty good, too.
A musher knows that a three-dog night is gonna be cold--better curl up with three to avoid freezing.

My wife Robin has a great three-dead-bird day story about one of our cats. She was feeling blue one day, which is rare for her. As if to console her, our cat brought in three dead birds as gifts. By that point, Robin couldn't help laughing.

I was out of town at the time, so heard about this only later.

I love dogs.

They are better human beings than most humans.

However,being slysdexixc sliddexicn AW CRAP !...Dyslexic --I never had any luck

running the Ididarod.

I kept shouting "Hush you Muskies! Hush you muskies!".

The sled team just stood there.

The lead Husky turned around and just looked at me,tilting his head side-to-side.

I still finished next to last.(The guy behind me was also dyslexic and stuttered).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JtnEUPvpus

Clearly, you need to get another dog.

"Nastiness devalues the opinions of the nasty one."

Exactly: Good Answer; great point.

If people only realised that they're hurting themselves more than their target, then, there would be a lot less nastiness.

Nastiness is usually a relief mechanism for underlying issues that cannot/have not been vented or corrected and when it goes on for a while it becomes second nature to a person. A defense mechanism. So if they upset their "target', they have acheived their objective and protected themselves.

So if you think someone is being nasty, consider they may just be protecting their feelings. We spend too much time living lives to others requirements and never live lives to our requirements. And when some do, we make them out to be outcasts, nasty, reclusive or strange people.

"The blind defense of one's requirements is a source of the paralyzing polarization we have today. Maybe it was always there and modern communications have illuminated it and maybe threatened it. Either way, it needs to be managed.by the (far)sighted, not the blind."

That's deep, but sooo good!

Someone once told me that it's the responsibility of the person who can see the dysfunction to stop the argument/fight. In Lima Peru, drivers run stop signs, red lights, make three lanes out of two, turn right from the left lane, drive into oncoming traffic and many other reckless maneuvers, yet you rarely see accidents. Why? I once asked my cousin, who has the right of way. He said the person who can't see into the intersection has the right of way. Huh? Because the person who can see is responsible to avoid the accident.

What an interesting concept. And it works in Lima, because cars are very valuable and nobody wants their car to be wrecked in an accident.

Here in the US, too many times, we're too stuck on who's right or wrong. The goal should be to avoid damaging our property. That also means paying attention to the task at hand = safely driving a car.

Cause doesn't necessarily justify potential effect.

An effect is a change which is a result or consequence of an action or other cause.

The potential is having or showing the capacity to develop into something in the future.

The cause is a person or thing that gives rise to an action, phenomenon, or condition. Therefore any form of nastiness is the result of an action, (and in this case a person), which may have happened, or be seen to be happening, that will result in a development of an action, good or bad, in the future or present, to protect ones self from hurt. I.E. The person causing the hurt has an effect on another, and the other person retaliates with a nasty remark or action, to avoid hurt, embarrassment, or ridicule or to save face. So if I understood your brief comment to the fullest, the answer can be considered over coffee and a cream bun at the Riverside Marlowes shopping centre.

We are all responsible for our own actions. If a person feels hurt because they disagree with a comment then they should respond to the comment with a counter argument, not, resort to nastiness, which is never necessary or justified.

You seem to believe that nastiness is sometimes justified: is that correct?

Please, show me where I have stated this? An assumption based on your own thoughts and ideals, without thought or knowledge.

A counter argument response could be a retort, statement, action or word that may be deemed by yourself to sound nasty, but in fact, is a total misunderstanding for you to comprehend what you thought you heard or saw. Your understanding of any spoken or written word is based on your emotional state or comfort zone at the time.

as you clearly stated: "We are all responsible for our own actions". These actions are made on your decisions and understandings, and if you misunderstood, then you made the wrong decision and said the wrong thing.

"Please, show me where I have stated this?"

I said "You seem to believe that nastiness is sometimes justified: is that correct?"

Perhaps I should have said:-

It seems to me that you believe that nastiness is sometimes justified: is that correct?

The reason for this is because you said:-

"Nastiness is usually a relief mechanism for underlying issues that cannot/have not been vented or corrected and when it goes on for a while it becomes second nature to a person. A defense mechanism. So if they upset their "target', they have achieved their objective and protected themselves.

So if you think someone is being nasty, consider they may just be protecting their feelings. We spend too much time living lives to others requirements and never live lives to our requirements. And when some do, we make them out to be outcasts, nasty, reclusive or strange people."

Perhaps I misunderstood that post?

One way or another my main question at this point in time is "Do you believe that nastiness is sometimes justified?"

If the answer is "NO" then I think we are in agreement.

If the answer is "YES" then I would like you to explain your position in a way that I can understand.

As in all cases, everything can be justified, even antagonism. It may not seem right but if it get the point across, its justified.

"It may not seem right but if it get the point across, its justified."

It's that word "IF" that needs more examination. I have seen dozens of discussions on this forum go awry because of nastiness; I have never seen nastiness help to get a point across.

Examine 'If' all you like sir. To your hearts content. Feel free to share your findings with us all.

The point is that nastiness never does help to get a point across; the condition is not met, and, the nastiness cannot be justified.

As the topic states: Goals and Emotional Reactions. Not all have the same emotional reaction that you wish them to have. and if anyone is being nasty, they have a goal, no matter what you, or another may decide for them is right or wrong. If the nastiness achieves a goal for someone, it worked and the action achieves the goal and justification is proved true.

In agreement with Redfred, Any following commentary should be ignored or removed from the forum

"It may not seem right but if it get the point across, its justified."

I agree that "IF" is a part of the critical conditional here but the unstated direction of the discussion is just as important. To whom does the speaker wish to annoy with a nasty comment? Posts on CR4 are part of a public forum and not a private conversation between two individuals.

To me, when a nasty discussion happens here one, two, or all of the participants have lost rational thought. Any following commentary should be ignored or removed from the forum.

To save you all the folly of a simple word, change 'If' to 'on condition that'

"It may not seem right but 'on condition that it gets the point across, its justified."

The dilemma is therefore solved.

To whom? Those you ignore?

This is perfect. You insult my intellect by saying I must be confused. This original discussion addresses emotional reactions and you respond with a personal slight. Are you intentionally trying to provoke an emotional reaction?

Successful dialogue, like any communication, requires an exchange of information in two directions. Two transmitters and two receivers must work properly for success. Has it ever occurred to you that you might be the one at fault in this communication? I did add an explanation why I questioned if you were talking to me. That explanation was after my opening question.

Also, your logic in reply #50 is flawed. In a public forum, people interject and misplace replies all the time. Replying does not mandate a properly directed personal chat. Refusing to answer my question can be seen as being rude.

"Refusing to answer my question can be seen as being rude". Rude, nasty, impolite, abrupt, whatever! How ever you want to read a post, with your emotion in place is only your business, and you are entitled to believe your own deductions. It's your emotion that is working overtime, not mine.

Never ask a question if you are not prepared to listen to the answer. Answers may not be what you like to think, or believe, or even like to hear. And no one has any reason to implement your thinking as the gospel and requirements of life.

Managing emotional reactions means, choosing how and when, to express the emotions we feel.

Calling a question some negative name is an answer too. Evading, resenting, distracting, insulting, ignoring and more, are well known defenses to a perceived attack on the receiver's sanity foundation. There are usually explainable reasons for the defenses, but the defender may prefer the defense to the explanations.
Questions that encourage thought, rather than insist on a conclusion, may also be resented if thought shakes that foundation.

Strong agreement may be seen as a negative (patronizing). It takes diplomatic skill to respect a position while still holding an opposing one.

Some relevant proverbs:

Never ask a question three times. The second is often needed to get a reply from friendly, busy people, but if heard three times, I may not believe the answer.

Don't doubt others until you can doubt yourself.

Doubt (and much else) is quantitative, if something doesn't work 100% of the time, it is not useless. HMM = How Much Matters.

Losing rational thought - I fully agree. As one who has been guilty of this, I know that my buttons can be pushed. Why do I react the way I do? Because my little boy inside wants to be heard and not be hurt again, like in the past. That's the obvious. The tough part is being able to catch it. I'm working on it!

Thanks for sharing. Great point!

Very true! Thanks for sharing!

I think it's sometimes difficult when you're in the moment. Same reason why couples break up - passion goes two ways. Love and hate!

Thanks for sharing.

Thanks! Very wise!

Agree. Put a rubberband over the four fingers of one hand, at midfinger. Then put index finger of the other hand into the band and pull away. The more you pull the more area you open up, your will against the other fingers, but pull too hard and the band breaks and you have nothing. The balance of you and others must be managed. We are part of many systems (food, health, services, manufacturing, power, etc) and what seems like freedom is often ignoring this balance.

Some times one needs to inject humour into life as it is far too dull and boring, and far too many people take seriousness too far. Its a good release. Much political correctness when one should be rolling on the floor laughing.

One spends 9 months in a womb, going against the flow. You pop out one day and a get a panking, you cry and suddenly find you are told to 'go with the flow,' for the rest of your life. Complying to the elders who screwed up their lives and now want you do carry on the same legacy. So don't get depressed and admire fools, for you will lead their lives for them. Just purse your lips and whistle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buqtdpuZxvk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJUhlRoBL8M

Not all of us, and not all the time. I'm an elder, whistle very well, popped out as you said, born with the flow, lucky enough to escape war and poverty (and addiction to comfort, too). I helped raise three children who don't go all-in with the flow either. They did learn by playing team sports and seeing my happiness in fixing things.

In my youth, I was a canoeist down rivers through woods. It was going with a real flow, but I wanted to stop and fish, or rest, or paddle (set) across the river before a rough portion to decide which way to go. Canoeing is a team sport at two levels: your partner (2 to a canoe) and our group (dinners with shared fish, campsites, canoe transport). Many flows to go with, but enough room for self. Balance was uniquely important, as we learned if we stood up in the canoe.

Perspective! Many, many years ago, a good friend of mine asked me to do something (he knew I needed the help). I had reached many of my goals in life, but my soul was in need. He asked me to find one of my favorite spots and write down everything I was grateful for.

So, on the way home from a trip downtown, I stopped at a KFC on PCH and as I was sitting in a chair, looking out over the beautiful Pacific Ocean, I started to write. First, it was superficial things like, I'm grateful for a nice house, successful career, financial stability, good business, etc. Then it shifted to thing like, I'm grateful to be living in such a great time (vs the middle ages or the Civil War), to not have to hunt my own food, to be able to communicate with others, to have warmth and shelter, to be in a beautiful place (vs Siberia or the Sahara). Then it shifted to being able to see the beautiful colors of the ocean, to be able to hear the music of birds singing, to be able to taste, smell, feel. And finally it came down to my existence and having a higher being to protect me and love me. To challenge me and allow me to make mistakes and forgive me for them. And for the ability to forgive others.

It was a life changing day. I often tell my close friends to do the same, but I don't tell them what I wrote down. I figure it's for their individual needs at that specific time.

Kinda goes with "always look on the bright side of life". Not because it can be worse, but because there's always good.

I've heard that a diverse board of directors can do wonders for a company, as long as they strive toward the goal of the company and leave egos at the door.

We're very similar to a board of directors. Even though we're mostly all science/engineering minded people, many of us have strayed from our education and gone into different fields. I love it, because we not only have logical, problem solving skills, but also such diverse professional and personal experiences. This is why I enjoy this group so much. We approach the problem from different angles - I've learned so much from this group and I thank all of you for sharing.

I appreciate you taking the time to answer. I hope you find that you can enjoy the site again and also help others.

Based on your career, I think you could be a great help to others. I know I can use help with many mechanical or operational problems I have.

Thanks for giving it another try and welcome back!