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Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/16/2021 7:26 PM

I thought this would be a perfect time for us to discuss the topic. One of my threads was shut down due to nastiness between individuals here. In the heat of an argument, things are said/written that shouldn't be, but we're all human, right. So to my topic; when does an individual lose control and go from a goal oriented person to someone whose emotions take over and they react vs respond?

I'd like to hear from you, but I ask that you refrain from the nastiness. I think there's a lot we can learn about ourselves here, as well as improve communication, but an effort on everyone's side is requested.

I hope you give it some thought and please post as honestly as you can.

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#1

Re: Goals vs emotional reaction

08/16/2021 7:42 PM

I'll start. I try my best to keep in line with my goals. My goals on this site are:

1. To seek advice from like minded people.

2. To help others.

3. To share knowledge.

4. To get a good laugh - you guys have a great sense of humor.

5. To gain new ideas or better ways to analyze a problem.

When do I lose sight of my goals?

1. When someone posts a rude/nasty comment.

2. When someone is degrading or insulting.

3. When someone has a "holier than thou" attitude.

4. When someone isn't honest.

5. When someone goes out of their way to hurt someone.

There may be more, but these are what I can think of on the spot. When I feel someone has "trespassed", I strike back. Even though I have quite a bit of experience, I still allow my emotions to get the best of me. And yes, I'm continually working on this - you see, if I allow someone to get under my skin, then it's my fault. Others can say or do things and it's up to me to have an appropriate response - not to react.

When I was younger, the first thing I'd do is become physical. Definitely a phase we all go through and hopefully we grow out of it. Then the verbal threat phase came in. Unfortunately, I got stuck in that phase for quite a while. Louder was better! Angrier was better! Currently, I'm doing my best to understand the other person (know where they're coming from and why), then I can respond in a less threatening manner. It works a lot of the time and on many occasions, the outcome is that we agree to disagree.

What makes it so difficult for us to do the same here? Is it because we're all intelligent people and we want to show others just how smart we are? Or is it because we have such different political views that we can't listen to each other - like our congressmen? Or is it that maybe, just maybe, we're a lot more alike than we care to admit and the traits we don't like in ourselves , we see in others?

I'll give an example. I hate getting stuck in traffic and I'll jump lanes to the faster moving one. I'll also jump into the far right lane, even though I know it'll be merging soon. When I see others doing the same, I get into my "holier than thou" attitude and I'll even go so far as drifting to the right to block them from passing me. Or I'll lay on the horn and give them a dirty look (I've pretty much stopped using the finger - not sure why, but I have). I know it's wrong, but I find myself doing it often.

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Goals vs emotional reaction

08/16/2021 9:05 PM

The therapy session is in room cr00...

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#3
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Re: Goals vs emotional reaction

08/16/2021 10:52 PM

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#26
In reply to #1

Re: Goals vs emotional reaction

08/18/2021 11:44 PM

Paragraph four.

When I was a young driver, my friends would always call me slow poke, unfortunately I've continued that tradition till today. I would counsel the untold number drivers who have got stuck behind me. This actually helped when I was a Specials driver. ( BF ) before FedEx. I, often weaved my way through the tangled mess of traffic from solvang to imperial beach, as quietly as I could, with little to no interaction with other drivers. My driving force was distance, not time. I had all the time in the world to get there, and I used it

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#64
In reply to #26

Re: Goals vs emotional reaction

08/28/2021 2:40 AM

Solvang to Imperial Beach! Wow, that's a long drive!

You have a lot of patience. Good for you, as I'm still trying to learn to be patient behind the wheel.

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#65
In reply to #1

Re: Goals vs emotional reaction

08/28/2021 2:46 AM

Well ...

Today, I had to meet a client in Riverside. I was stuck in traffic (come on, it's not even 1pm and there's traffic?) and I was getting impatient. I wasn't pleased driving behind this car - he was leaving too much space in front of him and people were pulling in front of him (the right lane was moving better, because of this). When a break in traffic came, I jumped to the right, passed the guy and jumped back to the left. Darn, that was the start of it. Next, the truck to the right was slow, so I jumped in front of him. Soon, I was moving from left to right, right to left, then in the right lane that was exiting - at the last minute, I merged back to the left. About 15 minutes into this, I saw the car I had passed, just glide by in the far left lane! All that lane jumping did no good, so I eased over to the left and stayed there the rest of the way. I had XM radio on (channel 18) and I just relaxed and listened to the Beatles! And made phone calls or answered them.

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#4

Re: Goals vs emotional reaction

08/17/2021 3:53 AM

<...we're all human...>

One might not think so from some of the stuff that gets posted online...

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Goals vs emotional reaction

08/17/2021 6:27 AM

There are many humans,but very few human beings in this world.

I like dogs much better than I like most people.

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#7
In reply to #5

Re: Goals vs emotional reaction

08/17/2021 12:44 PM

A friend of mine (With a PHD) said that a good dog would benefit people better than a psychiatrist. He had over 40 years experience in the practice.

(He was a very rare and honest man.)

"People know their problem,they just want someone to listen and be non judgmental about anything they might say."- R.Mc --(Hic Jacet,friend. Rest in peace).

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#13
In reply to #7

Re: Goals vs emotional reaction

08/17/2021 1:59 PM

"People know their problem,they just want someone to listen and be non judgmental about anything they might say."

After many years of life, I think we've all learned this - or at least we should've. My better half has been the best teacher for me.

It's funny, because as men, we're taught that we're here to solve problems, yet many times it's better to listen and don't give any advice.

Thanks for the quote!

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#12
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Re: Goals vs emotional reaction

08/17/2021 1:55 PM

We had a great little guy, who absolutely awesome! He lived to be 21 years old, but his last year was a tough one. He passed on Superbowl Sunday 2020.

He was the best dog and we miss him so much. I'd take him on hikes, then after, we'd go to Carl's Jr and get a meal. I'd get a bowl of room temp water for him to drink and a juicy cheeseburger! Room temp water, because he'd get sick if he drank cold water.

I read that there's one animal that can help calm humans and that's a dog. I think that the centuries of the relationship between humans and dogs has created such a bond. I know that I helped our little guy when he was anxious or uncertain.

You never think you'll miss a dog that much!

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#18
In reply to #12

Re: Goals vs emotional reaction

08/17/2021 8:52 PM

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#22
In reply to #18

Re: Goals vs emotional reaction

08/18/2021 6:41 AM

"Knowing exactly the right thing to say,I said nothing."- Mark Twain

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#24
In reply to #22

Re: Goals vs emotional reaction

08/18/2021 7:08 AM

I can't find that quote by Mark Twain?

I found:-

Malcolm S. Forbes Quote: “Nothing is sometimes the right thing to say.

And

"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."

Is often attributed to Twain (and Hemmingway and Kafka)

"Author Garson O'Toole has a simple explanation for why quotes are often wrongly attributed to Mark Twain: "If you preface a quotation by saying it's from Twain, then people are prepared to laugh at it.""

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#6

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/17/2021 12:38 PM

Once the CR4 Admins brought in a behavioral psychologist to try to fix us. That did not end well. Those that got to read her suicide note said that the things she wrote about us were even nastier than the things we write while responding to the @#!% *$@ posts others write.

I don't know if you have checked the news in the past decade or so but asking people to use their brains and play nice with others seems to be a problem that extends well beyond the CR4 community.

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#14
In reply to #6

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/17/2021 2:07 PM

It's been that way for years!

This is my attempt is to have all of us use this forum for what it was intended. No psychological tricks, just to have us (engineers, scientists, businessmen, leaders, etc) communicate effectively. I think it's a simple thing to ask.

I also want to point out that there have been fewer people posting on this forum in the last few years. I hope we can get back to more input to this site.

I feel there folks here are the smartest group I interact with. More intelligent and knowledgeable than the average person. I feel it's a shame to let personal grudges and nastiness get in the way of camaraderie and problem solving.

That's my two cents. I'm off the soap box!

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#20
In reply to #14

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/18/2021 1:31 AM

Object lessons are always the hardest to teach to grumpy old guys.

You said, "This is my attempt to have all of us use this forum for what it was intended." Good luck with having ALL of US do anything as a group. Never going to happen.

Finally you say, "there have been fewer people posting on this forum." Registration has been closed for some time now.

I'd rather talk about proper thread engagement, or removing rust from steel than my feelings. I do miss my dogs though.

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#8

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/17/2021 12:45 PM

How do you feel about people trying to share knowledge who are publicly labeled as having a "holier than thou" attitude?

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#15
In reply to #8

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/17/2021 2:08 PM

You're point is well taken. Yes, I'm guilty, so please accept my apology.

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#17
In reply to #15

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/17/2021 2:23 PM

I accept and salute you.

We all are susceptible to our emotions. When our emotions cause us to react badly an apology should be offered. Apologies are not a sign of weakness but strength. This forum could do with a few more strong characters.

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#9

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/17/2021 1:07 PM

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/17/2021 1:14 PM

Overpriced.

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/17/2021 1:43 PM

A good dog....priceless

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#16
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Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/17/2021 2:09 PM

You said it!

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#19
In reply to #11

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/17/2021 10:30 PM

Cats can be pretty good, too.
A musher knows that a three-dog night is gonna be cold--better curl up with three to avoid freezing.

My wife Robin has a great three-dead-bird day story about one of our cats. She was feeling blue one day, which is rare for her. As if to console her, our cat brought in three dead birds as gifts. By that point, Robin couldn't help laughing.

I was out of town at the time, so heard about this only later.

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#23
In reply to #11

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/18/2021 6:54 AM

I love dogs.

They are better human beings than most humans.

However,being slysdexixc sliddexicn AW CRAP !...Dyslexic --I never had any luck

running the Ididarod.

I kept shouting "Hush you Muskies! Hush you muskies!".

The sled team just stood there.

The lead Husky turned around and just looked at me,tilting his head side-to-side.

I still finished next to last.(The guy behind me was also dyslexic and stuttered).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JtnEUPvpus

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#21

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/18/2021 5:08 AM

Clearly, you need to get another dog.

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#25

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/18/2021 7:02 PM

There is a huge space between goal-oriented and loss of control. We can live much of our lives there, organized by our cultures and genetics and external events, but with few specific goals. This is the "big middle" that many people avoid or ignore and may be afraid of the goal-less judgments that are required to live there.

Most things don't matter, but some do, and for them, how and how much affects response..

Nastiness devalues the opinions of the nasty one.

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#27
In reply to #25

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/19/2021 5:16 AM

"Nastiness devalues the opinions of the nasty one."

Exactly: Good Answer; great point.

If people only realised that they're hurting themselves more than their target, then, there would be a lot less nastiness.

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#28
In reply to #27

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/19/2021 7:20 AM

Nastiness is usually a relief mechanism for underlying issues that cannot/have not been vented or corrected and when it goes on for a while it becomes second nature to a person. A defense mechanism. So if they upset their "target', they have acheived their objective and protected themselves.

So if you think someone is being nasty, consider they may just be protecting their feelings. We spend too much time living lives to others requirements and never live lives to our requirements. And when some do, we make them out to be outcasts, nasty, reclusive or strange people.

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#31
In reply to #28

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/21/2021 1:22 PM

I agree that nastiness is often defense, protecting one's feelings, and may feel more justified if others agree with the nasty one.

I reacted to two words in your last paragraph: just and never. Just minimizes what follows, and I don't think that was your intent. But never implies a total failure and a difficulty of seeing all sides, a vision which I hope you also agree is useful.

The blind defense of one's requirements is a source of the paralyzing polarization we have today. Maybe it was always there and modern communications have illuminated it and maybe threatened it. Either way, it needs to be managed.by the (far)sighted, not the blind.

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#33
In reply to #31

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/21/2021 2:01 PM

Just was used in the pretext that one does not know the reason, based on or behaving according to what is morally right and fair. And never being used to state at no time in the past or future does anyone, beside a select few who went out and lived life as they saw it, do what they really wanted to do in life. A generalisation word which we are all familiar with. Never does not imply a total failure and it does not imply the blindness to see the other side. However, some simply cannot see the other side at all nor allow for the viewing of the other parties view point.

I abide by the fact that I can be staunch in a belief, however, I can also see another's view point and may not agree with it as it does not conform to my life, but it does not stop others form living with their viewpoint. Like tattoos, I don't have one at all. I like the art works but I will never have one and have no objection to anyone having them. As for polarisation, that is a fact of life everywhere. We drift to that which we are familiar with and know to feel at home and comfortable. Americans seek out their own kind when overseas, Brits do the same, French, Philipinos, Nigerians, Indians etc, they seek out their own kind to fit in when overseas. That's life.

But its good to chat and banter and see how things work elsewhere. It's all a learning and we all have different points of view and understanding and that's what makes life diverse.

Just going to make tea, the kettle will never boil if I don't make fire.

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#69
In reply to #31

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/28/2021 2:57 AM

"The blind defense of one's requirements is a source of the paralyzing polarization we have today. Maybe it was always there and modern communications have illuminated it and maybe threatened it. Either way, it needs to be managed.by the (far)sighted, not the blind."

That's deep, but sooo good!

Someone once told me that it's the responsibility of the person who can see the dysfunction to stop the argument/fight. In Lima Peru, drivers run stop signs, red lights, make three lanes out of two, turn right from the left lane, drive into oncoming traffic and many other reckless maneuvers, yet you rarely see accidents. Why? I once asked my cousin, who has the right of way. He said the person who can't see into the intersection has the right of way. Huh? Because the person who can see is responsible to avoid the accident.

What an interesting concept. And it works in Lima, because cars are very valuable and nobody wants their car to be wrecked in an accident.

Here in the US, too many times, we're too stuck on who's right or wrong. The goal should be to avoid damaging our property. That also means paying attention to the task at hand = safely driving a car.

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#36
In reply to #28

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/22/2021 5:59 AM

Cause doesn't necessarily justify potential effect.

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#37
In reply to #36

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/22/2021 7:32 AM

An effect is a change which is a result or consequence of an action or other cause.

The potential is having or showing the capacity to develop into something in the future.

The cause is a person or thing that gives rise to an action, phenomenon, or condition. Therefore any form of nastiness is the result of an action, (and in this case a person), which may have happened, or be seen to be happening, that will result in a development of an action, good or bad, in the future or present, to protect ones self from hurt. I.E. The person causing the hurt has an effect on another, and the other person retaliates with a nasty remark or action, to avoid hurt, embarrassment, or ridicule or to save face. So if I understood your brief comment to the fullest, the answer can be considered over coffee and a cream bun at the Riverside Marlowes shopping centre.

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#38
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Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/23/2021 5:39 AM

We are all responsible for our own actions. If a person feels hurt because they disagree with a comment then they should respond to the comment with a counter argument, not, resort to nastiness, which is never necessary or justified.

You seem to believe that nastiness is sometimes justified: is that correct?

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#39
In reply to #38

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/23/2021 7:40 AM

Please, show me where I have stated this? An assumption based on your own thoughts and ideals, without thought or knowledge.

A counter argument response could be a retort, statement, action or word that may be deemed by yourself to sound nasty, but in fact, is a total misunderstanding for you to comprehend what you thought you heard or saw. Your understanding of any spoken or written word is based on your emotional state or comfort zone at the time.

as you clearly stated: "We are all responsible for our own actions". These actions are made on your decisions and understandings, and if you misunderstood, then you made the wrong decision and said the wrong thing.

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#40
In reply to #39

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/24/2021 5:47 AM

"Please, show me where I have stated this?"

I said "You seem to believe that nastiness is sometimes justified: is that correct?"

Perhaps I should have said:-

It seems to me that you believe that nastiness is sometimes justified: is that correct?

The reason for this is because you said:-

"Nastiness is usually a relief mechanism for underlying issues that cannot/have not been vented or corrected and when it goes on for a while it becomes second nature to a person. A defense mechanism. So if they upset their "target', they have achieved their objective and protected themselves.

So if you think someone is being nasty, consider they may just be protecting their feelings. We spend too much time living lives to others requirements and never live lives to our requirements. And when some do, we make them out to be outcasts, nasty, reclusive or strange people."

Perhaps I misunderstood that post?

One way or another my main question at this point in time is "Do you believe that nastiness is sometimes justified?"

If the answer is "NO" then I think we are in agreement.

If the answer is "YES" then I would like you to explain your position in a way that I can understand.

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#42
In reply to #40

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/25/2021 5:09 AM

As in all cases, everything can be justified, even antagonism. It may not seem right but if it get the point across, its justified.

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#43
In reply to #42

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/25/2021 5:56 AM

"It may not seem right but if it get the point across, its justified."

It's that word "IF" that needs more examination. I have seen dozens of discussions on this forum go awry because of nastiness; I have never seen nastiness help to get a point across.

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#44
In reply to #43

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/25/2021 6:14 AM

Examine 'If' all you like sir. To your hearts content. Feel free to share your findings with us all.

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#51
In reply to #44

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/26/2021 4:54 AM

The point is that nastiness never does help to get a point across; the condition is not met, and, the nastiness cannot be justified.

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#52
In reply to #51

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/26/2021 6:33 AM

As the topic states: Goals and Emotional Reactions. Not all have the same emotional reaction that you wish them to have. and if anyone is being nasty, they have a goal, no matter what you, or another may decide for them is right or wrong. If the nastiness achieves a goal for someone, it worked and the action achieves the goal and justification is proved true.

In agreement with Redfred, Any following commentary should be ignored or removed from the forum

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#45
In reply to #43

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/25/2021 9:07 AM

"It may not seem right but if it get the point across, its justified."

I agree that "IF" is a part of the critical conditional here but the unstated direction of the discussion is just as important. To whom does the speaker wish to annoy with a nasty comment? Posts on CR4 are part of a public forum and not a private conversation between two individuals.

To me, when a nasty discussion happens here one, two, or all of the participants have lost rational thought. Any following commentary should be ignored or removed from the forum.

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#46
In reply to #45

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/25/2021 3:37 PM

To save you all the folly of a simple word, change 'If' to 'on condition that'

"It may not seem right but 'on condition that it gets the point across, its justified."

The dilemma is therefore solved.

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#47
In reply to #46

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/25/2021 3:40 PM

To whom? Those you ignore?

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#48
In reply to #47

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/25/2021 3:53 PM

??? Expand please. Ignore? Whom may have been ignored?

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#49
In reply to #48

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/25/2021 7:26 PM

Are you talking to me? I don't think so. You've not addressed at all the point I added to this tangential discussion.

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#50
In reply to #49

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/26/2021 4:14 AM

If you are the one who replied then clearly I must be chatting to you. And if you do not think so, then clearly you are confuse and thus making your word play valueless and pointless.

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#53
In reply to #50

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/26/2021 9:04 AM

This is perfect. You insult my intellect by saying I must be confused. This original discussion addresses emotional reactions and you respond with a personal slight. Are you intentionally trying to provoke an emotional reaction?

Successful dialogue, like any communication, requires an exchange of information in two directions. Two transmitters and two receivers must work properly for success. Has it ever occurred to you that you might be the one at fault in this communication? I did add an explanation why I questioned if you were talking to me. That explanation was after my opening question.

Also, your logic in reply #50 is flawed. In a public forum, people interject and misplace replies all the time. Replying does not mandate a properly directed personal chat. Refusing to answer my question can be seen as being rude.

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#54
In reply to #53

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/26/2021 10:38 AM

"Refusing to answer my question can be seen as being rude". Rude, nasty, impolite, abrupt, whatever! How ever you want to read a post, with your emotion in place is only your business, and you are entitled to believe your own deductions. It's your emotion that is working overtime, not mine.

Never ask a question if you are not prepared to listen to the answer. Answers may not be what you like to think, or believe, or even like to hear. And no one has any reason to implement your thinking as the gospel and requirements of life.

Managing emotional reactions means, choosing how and when, to express the emotions we feel.

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#55
In reply to #54

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/26/2021 10:54 AM

It can be.

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#74
In reply to #55

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/28/2021 3:44 AM

Humor sure helps!

I've seen the same thing happen with couples. They argue over the smallest things, but we all know that there's something underlying - hurt feelings!

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#56
In reply to #54

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/26/2021 2:49 PM

Calling a question some negative name is an answer too. Evading, resenting, distracting, insulting, ignoring and more, are well known defenses to a perceived attack on the receiver's sanity foundation. There are usually explainable reasons for the defenses, but the defender may prefer the defense to the explanations.
Questions that encourage thought, rather than insist on a conclusion, may also be resented if thought shakes that foundation.

Strong agreement may be seen as a negative (patronizing). It takes diplomatic skill to respect a position while still holding an opposing one.

Some relevant proverbs:

Never ask a question three times. The second is often needed to get a reply from friendly, busy people, but if heard three times, I may not believe the answer.

Don't doubt others until you can doubt yourself.

Doubt (and much else) is quantitative, if something doesn't work 100% of the time, it is not useless. HMM = How Much Matters.

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#57
In reply to #50

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/27/2021 5:11 AM

"If the nastiness achieves a goal for someone, it worked and the action achieves the goal and justification is proved true."

"then clearly you are confuse"

Please explain how you believe insulting redfred's intelligence contributed towards achieving what goal.

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#58
In reply to #57

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/27/2021 5:54 AM

Repeat of an existing post, Never ask a question if you are not prepared to accept an answer.

I recall his post stating clearly: 'In a public forum, people interject and misplace replies all the time'. Was this an admission of error? Only he will know. Perhaps a human lapse caused by an emotion? Only he will know. Was it a simple excuse without thought? Only he will know that answer.

And clearly his response was smart enough to respond with humour, ridding all emotion. Perhaps you missed that post. In essence, he supposed that something is the case, solely, (to the exclusion of all else), grounded in his perceived basis of a probability.

I think this topic has gone to the knackers yard Randal.

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#59
In reply to #58

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/27/2021 6:11 AM

Now you refuse to answer Randall's question. (A response to a question is not always an answer to that question.) I guess you must be hiding something.

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#60
In reply to #59

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/27/2021 6:41 AM

Answered to my satisfaction. Hidden! Dream on!

Response defined: Response is defined as an answer to a question. Please Google this for your further knowledge and understanding.

Now go puzzle goals versus emotional reaction out by yourselves. And try thinking out of the box.

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#61
In reply to #60

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/27/2021 9:24 AM

One of the definitions of a response is an answer. A simple review of set theory should tell anyone that not all responses are answers, let alone an answer to a specific question. So, is your response an answer to the question asked? I say you have not answered several of the questions asked with your responses. I do believe you will never answer those questions for reasons that evade me.

For an answer to everything I offer you this:

Good Day

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#62
In reply to #61

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/27/2021 11:47 AM

So what's wrong with you? You had the answer all along! What a surprise.

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#63
In reply to #61

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/27/2021 1:32 PM

For possible reasons, see my post #56.

Your 42 (illustration from Galaxy) invokes multiple answers; to the curious, anything can be a "question." For example,

maybe you refer to Jackie Robinson's uniform number, a reminder of race relations in his time (why it was such a high number compared to others).

Maybe as 6 x 7 it refers to "sixes and sevens," a British expression for confusion.

A mathematical series, 2 to the x with x from 2 to 0.

Presidential number for Bill Clinton.

Approximate onset of midlife crisis to the mid-class that can afford to have one.

One of the most famous streets in New York City.

Half of 84, a brand of seed corn (84 days to harvest).

Atomic number of molybdenum.

Country code for former Czechoslovakia

..... and many more, so the question depends on the seekers and our time and resources and need to be distracted from other more important stuff.

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#75
In reply to #58

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/29/2021 5:05 AM

"Repeat of an existing post, "

1.) Which post do you believe post #57 was a repeat of?

"Never ask a question if you are not prepared to accept an answer."

2.) which answer do you believe I have not accepted?

"I think this topic has gone to the knackers yard Randal."

I don't think so: we are both reasonable people, but, we seem to hold diametrically opposite views about something. I am keen to understand your position.

In an earlier post I said:-

"You seem to believe that nastiness is sometimes justified: is that correct?"

And, you initially seemed to reject that impression I had gained:-

"Please, show me where I have stated this? An assumption based on your own thoughts and ideals, without thought or knowledge."

But when I requoted the post that had given me that impression you did confirm in post #42 your belief that:-

"It may not seem right but if it get the point across, its justified."

We did not have an example to work with at that time, but, you provided one by insulting redfred's intelligence, and I have now asked:-

3.) "Please explain how you believe insulting redfred's intelligence contributed towards achieving"..........

4.) ........"what goal?"

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#76
In reply to #75

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/29/2021 8:19 AM

Randal, now you are showing that your emotional reaction is proving your own goal. I really don't want to win this debate, I want you to win!

Seeing that your goal to prove to everyone that your own ideal is correct, and it's the only ideal all should uphold, I would guess you are the winner. You are awarded a gold star. Well done.

The train has left the station.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDiTGdlTxww

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjnkmNyArNg

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#77
In reply to #76

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/29/2021 10:02 AM
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#78
In reply to #77

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/30/2021 1:07 PM

Only between meals.

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#79
In reply to #78

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/30/2021 5:57 PM

I have no side to take, maybe too serious for some, hopefully not too nasty for anyone. My fear of displeasing others, not claiming any moral high ground.

I must note a critical difference between the words justify and explain. I want to understand the reasons why a person says/thinks something. I may thus see their conclusions as justified, for them. Even if I don't agree, I at least have explanation and can talk to that rather than just my own reactions.

Today's example: a governor of a low-Vax high-surge state said many of his people don't vaccinate because they believe in an afterlife and aren't worried about getting COVID and even dying from it. That is justification to them, but explanation for me, as I think people have a social responsibility to protect others, as our lives depend on society's providing food, power, phone service, water/sewer, and much more, including the internet we're on now The low-vaxers discourage me from flying and going anywhere such people may go, but even that is an excuse (explanation) for me to avoid travel and events I want to avoid anyway.

Justify is based on someone's position and perception of reality. Explain is cause-and-effect. This may challenge those who see sides as all good/bad or right/wrong or moral high-ground or scientifically proven, but I want to hear all sides to understand where they come from.

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#80
In reply to #79

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/31/2021 5:52 AM

If this is addressed to myself as I seem to have created some upset folks who are stuck in thinking out of the box. If its not addressed to my post, then you have some thinking to do.

1. You feel justified in your thought that un-vaccinated people are stopping you from traveling. That they must have a social responsibility towards others. Based on your passage. No one is disputing your ideal at all. However, this is your ideal and solely your decision to choose this path of though and belief. Nothing wrong with that, but you are the sole owner of said belief.

2. Based on your example the question arises. If you are vaccinated why do you live in fear of those not vaccinated? They cannot affect you in anyway, so logically, and based on what all medical reports say, you as a vaccinated person are safe from the un-vaccinated to a greater degree. They are not stopping you traveling or going anywhere, but your justification is that those not vaccinated are responsible for your unwarranted imprisonment in societies borders.

3. The main reason they want people vaccinated is to reduce the load on hospitals as they are no longer capable of dealing with any pandemic that may arise, anywhere in the world. Unfortunately this pandemic showed many flaws in economies, medical services, business and unfortunately ideals. The human race is not infallable and is actually not in control as they like you to think or believe.

4. Justified. If you have lived in Africa, which I seriously doubt you have, (Pity as you will learn much about life), there are many poor folks. Now keep in mind, you are used to your lovely western way of life, which is perceived as pure luxury to many around the word. If you think I'm wrong then you need to ask why so many refugees want to be in America, UK, Canada.

In Africa it is normal to have a high crime rate. Not normal for you in the west. But in Africa it is normal. A social acceptance as it is part of life. Fact. If a poor person sees and hears all about the luxury of overseas, he wants some of that luxury too, so being poor and needing to improve his life status or feed himself and his family, he steals. Perfect justifiable in order for him to survive or improve his lot in life. Therefore his social responsibility is to himself and /or his family, to survive and society is there to be taken from in order for his survival.

5. As for travel, again the west is to blame. I know that many of my friend are traveling by plane, bus, train on a regular basis in India with no hassles at all. Only one is vaccinated and none of them have died, gotten sick. People are traveling in Sweden with ease, no masks, no lock downs, no panic and going out to eat, drink and shop. Kids are at school and playing together and we hear of no covid deaths or new outbreaks.

6. Smokers smoke to have a little luxury in life. That is their business to smoke. A non smoker has the right to not smoke and enjoy their little luxuries in life, maybe they eat a lot of chocolate or drink in excess, or do something else. That is their choice. No one complains, but a smoker, oh dear, they are shunned by those who feel their social responsibility is greater than others. But really who are they to decide for everyone? So as a vaccinated person, why would you feel a non-vaccinated is a threat to your existence? They are the threat to themselves from your point of view. Their point of view is they are quite fine and happy to take the consequences of their decisions and of no threat to you as a vaccinated person. And they are not responsible for your choices in life.

7. If you really want to understand social responsibilities, read the fine print on every contract of insurance policies, see all the exclusion that you may continue with your social life. People who choose to be socially responsible is what they choose to do, perhaps a feeling of guilty, or caring, or being needed. It may bolster their image, a company may use it to create an image and brand or it may just give them a feeling a happiness. But we don't all have to or need to do it just because someone may believe it is a good thing. It's not a perfect world and we don't all think the same. We are unique and individual and certainly do not need to follow others every time and agree with them. We are free to choose and decide as the government and social persons allow us to do. But in personal decisions, that is exactly what it is, personal and private.

6. So the question asked, is what are you comparing against to obtain your perfect ideals? Life as you know it in your vicinity, or life as it is known across the world? We all have perfect worlds that we live in, but, it is not the same world wide for all, and therefore, perceptions, ideals, and thought will vary, depending on your circumstances.

And circumstances decide our justification, rightly or wrongly, depending on what side of the coin you are on. What is right for you is not necessarily right for another in another country. So out of the box thinking from the comfort zone of your life may be a step forward in understanding why, what you think to be right and correct for you, is not right and correct for all.

Example: Would you seriously eat BBQ'd field mice or rats on a stick from a street vendor? Is this right or wrong to eat this vermin? As a westerner does it make you cringe to think of eating them? Would you serve this up to your family for the evening meal?

Pretty normal in Malawi.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3r-mU--_bBU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTka51ky9TE

In essence, your ideals and understanding is based on what you knew and know on a daily basis, how you were raised and what you were raised to understand and believe within the confines of your world. Unfortunately the west as a historic reputation for imposing its will and ideals on the rest of the world, and it has not always been correct or fair or legal. People choose and people have ideas, ideals and beliefs that you may never think of making. It us up to you to look further and ignore for once your stayed views and see the other side of life. If you can't do that, then you simply will never understand life for others and it wont make you right in any way. Looking at he big picture includes looking at the frame, and the wall the picture hangs on, not just focusing on the landscape or portrait.

And if you were not replying to my post and asking a question, then ignore this. If you wish to nit pick every word, then enjoy doing so, however, before the tirade of comments, think out of the box for a change and consider walking where you may not have walked before and remember, there are plenty people I know who have never seen a white man in real life until I arrive in their village, Never seen or been on a aeroplane, never seen a train, nor been in a car before, never had electricity or running water. No idea what a fridge is and a disbelief that people in the UK and America do live on the streets. (That is impossible they will tell you). All thing you take for granted on a daily basis and form your ideals and beliefs and choices.

Trust that this is explained and justified and maybe a little of course. Circumstance dictate the justification and everything can be explained, you just need to look a little closer and listen a little deeper.

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#73
In reply to #45

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/28/2021 3:37 AM

Losing rational thought - I fully agree. As one who has been guilty of this, I know that my buttons can be pushed. Why do I react the way I do? Because my little boy inside wants to be heard and not be hurt again, like in the past. That's the obvious. The tough part is being able to catch it. I'm working on it!

Thanks for sharing. Great point!

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#67
In reply to #28

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/28/2021 2:49 AM

Very true! Thanks for sharing!

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#68
In reply to #27

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/28/2021 2:50 AM

I think it's sometimes difficult when you're in the moment. Same reason why couples break up - passion goes two ways. Love and hate!

Thanks for sharing.

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#66
In reply to #25

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/28/2021 2:47 AM

Thanks! Very wise!

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#29

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/21/2021 5:53 AM

I find it depressing that we all come here for answers and openminded conversation but find that some contributors, whom we all truly admire, seem to be more closed off about certain subjects than would be expected. I have no problem accepting criticism, in fact I welcome it. That's how we all learn from each other. A diverse group will solve and resolve more issues than a fully like minded group.

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#30
In reply to #29

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/21/2021 12:54 PM

Agree. Put a rubberband over the four fingers of one hand, at midfinger. Then put index finger of the other hand into the band and pull away. The more you pull the more area you open up, your will against the other fingers, but pull too hard and the band breaks and you have nothing. The balance of you and others must be managed. We are part of many systems (food, health, services, manufacturing, power, etc) and what seems like freedom is often ignoring this balance.

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#32
In reply to #29

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/21/2021 1:23 PM

Some times one needs to inject humour into life as it is far too dull and boring, and far too many people take seriousness too far. Its a good release. Much political correctness when one should be rolling on the floor laughing.

One spends 9 months in a womb, going against the flow. You pop out one day and a get a panking, you cry and suddenly find you are told to 'go with the flow,' for the rest of your life. Complying to the elders who screwed up their lives and now want you do carry on the same legacy. So don't get depressed and admire fools, for you will lead their lives for them. Just purse your lips and whistle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buqtdpuZxvk

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#34
In reply to #32

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/21/2021 2:13 PM

Not all of us, and not all the time. I'm an elder, whistle very well, popped out as you said, born with the flow, lucky enough to escape war and poverty (and addiction to comfort, too). I helped raise three children who don't go all-in with the flow either. They did learn by playing team sports and seeing my happiness in fixing things.

In my youth, I was a canoeist down rivers through woods. It was going with a real flow, but I wanted to stop and fish, or rest, or paddle (set) across the river before a rough portion to decide which way to go. Canoeing is a team sport at two levels: your partner (2 to a canoe) and our group (dinners with shared fish, campsites, canoe transport). Many flows to go with, but enough room for self. Balance was uniquely important, as we learned if we stood up in the canoe.

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#35
In reply to #34

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/21/2021 7:17 PM

Sir, you add complication where no complication is needed, the very complexity that most humans who do not consider what is typed. The prejudged notion of an emotion that must be right, and the script read in the tone in ones head. This is where misunderstanding starts and argument ensue when no argument is intended or needed. And many words are used in genralisation and not specifics.

Example: (and read the capitalised words hard): HOW are you? How ARE you? How are YOU? Three distinct questions on three simple harmless words with three different tones that may be construed as rude, intrusive, direct, inquisitive, and possibly insulting. So the English language, being a bastard language, is assumed to be understood by many. It is a polite language that people think they understand. Try Swedish, a very direct language, try Hindi or Dutch or Afrikaans, Zulu or Swahilli. Straight and to the point with no nonsense.

However, I admire your skills in canoeing and as a person to an elder person, I prefer sailing yachts.

My balance was reset on a weekly basis by my father's hefty whack around the ear. If one stood up after that you got another one on the other side. A sort of parental double check mechanism to know we were balanced kids. Played football for many years in a team. That was a game of two halves. But it became too tribal and I'm not one these days for tribes or membership to a tribe. One tribe fighting another for a leather bladder filled with air, while the rest of the war painted tribe scream and shout outside the war zone in bright woolly weather proof armour. If the bladder was filled with whisky, I could see the point in wanting that bladder so badly. But air!

So my balance is good. Oddly you mention that, last week a woman asked me at the ATM to help her check her balance. She installed her card in the machine, and I gave her a push and she fell over. I told her she needed to see the doctor, clearly she was out of balance.

As normal, good to chat and know that life exists beyond these bleak shores. And learn about some people who live in my laptop. I try to keep it cosy and tidy for them.

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#71
In reply to #32

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/28/2021 3:20 AM

Perspective! Many, many years ago, a good friend of mine asked me to do something (he knew I needed the help). I had reached many of my goals in life, but my soul was in need. He asked me to find one of my favorite spots and write down everything I was grateful for.

So, on the way home from a trip downtown, I stopped at a KFC on PCH and as I was sitting in a chair, looking out over the beautiful Pacific Ocean, I started to write. First, it was superficial things like, I'm grateful for a nice house, successful career, financial stability, good business, etc. Then it shifted to thing like, I'm grateful to be living in such a great time (vs the middle ages or the Civil War), to not have to hunt my own food, to be able to communicate with others, to have warmth and shelter, to be in a beautiful place (vs Siberia or the Sahara). Then it shifted to being able to see the beautiful colors of the ocean, to be able to hear the music of birds singing, to be able to taste, smell, feel. And finally it came down to my existence and having a higher being to protect me and love me. To challenge me and allow me to make mistakes and forgive me for them. And for the ability to forgive others.

It was a life changing day. I often tell my close friends to do the same, but I don't tell them what I wrote down. I figure it's for their individual needs at that specific time.

Kinda goes with "always look on the bright side of life". Not because it can be worse, but because there's always good.

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#70
In reply to #29

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/28/2021 3:01 AM

I've heard that a diverse board of directors can do wonders for a company, as long as they strive toward the goal of the company and leave egos at the door.

We're very similar to a board of directors. Even though we're mostly all science/engineering minded people, many of us have strayed from our education and gone into different fields. I love it, because we not only have logical, problem solving skills, but also such diverse professional and personal experiences. This is why I enjoy this group so much. We approach the problem from different angles - I've learned so much from this group and I thank all of you for sharing.

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#41

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/24/2021 12:58 PM

Hello all! I have been away from here for quite some time but have decided to get back into it. This seemed like a good topic for me to start back with as it is part of the reason why I stayed away for so long.

There is very little that will set me off but I will admit that I have buttons. When they are pressed I have a tendency to go off.

My entire career has been devoted to helping others with their mechanical and or operational problems. I have been working on equipment for 40+ years and I have managed the maintenance department where I work for the last 22 years.

I train new people on how to run the machines we have as well as help them to learn how to troubleshoot the problems that occur.

All that to say that my 3 major buttons are as follows:

Do not call me a liar. I will honestly tell you anything I know the answer to and will not give an answer if I don't know it. Although I will happily do the research that you may not want to do yourself.

If you ask for my help listen. Don't call me over to help with a problem and walk away while I am working it out. You will not learn a thing from the other side of the shop.

Don't ask a question if you don't want the answer. I will give you my answer you may not like it and you may even disagree with it. Getting angry over it is just silly.

That's my 2 cents. probably more like a quarters worth but there it is. :) Enjoy your day!

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#72
In reply to #41

Re: Goals vs Emotional Reaction

08/28/2021 3:34 AM

I appreciate you taking the time to answer. I hope you find that you can enjoy the site again and also help others.

Based on your career, I think you could be a great help to others. I know I can use help with many mechanical or operational problems I have.

Thanks for giving it another try and welcome back!

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