What More Can Go Wrong With Hotter Earth?

The biggest effect, from what I see, is the extra pressure it will impose on endangered species. In the past when something like this happened, species could move to adjacent habitats to survive. Now, so many habitats are insular that they have no where to go. I expect a huge loss in our genetic diversity.

There will no doubt be a large impact on humans as well. My own town sits just 10 feet above sea level. Humans will not become extinct, but our grandchildren will inherit a much diminished world.

Look here for more info:

http://www.livescience.com/environment/070716_gw_notwrong.html

wheeeeeeeee!

You gave me one more clue here.

When it was hotter there were more volcanic activities also and dinosaurs lost their existence. More water through rain may enter the earth and may come back as steam with greater pressure and more of volcanic activity may also be seen in time to come. I missed this point.

Fear of losing life and becoming extinct is the thing that earth always puts to test on species here and in worst time only those fit for that time will be hear. I think we are on edge of it now and waiting for the nature to start its final game as we have played ours already and perhaps want to accelerate the game if we have more time to do that. I believe that the trigger has already been pulled.

Where they went when Greenland was not green? This will happen to large area on earth now that people can not stay in water submerge zones and where they need to go from your point of view?

Is you remark very casual or a serious thinking and proper suggestion?

World can not go to Mars if earth gets affected to come back when it is ready again. Such picnic trips will be hard to conceive.

Thank you for your words of clarity and reason. There are far too many chicken littles (and very large, hypocritical ones too ) running around trying to frighten the public into swallowing their flawed agendas. Energy conservation is a good thing. It saves me money. Penalties for prosperity is utter bollocks. Don't ever let them foist the forced redistribution of wealth under the guise of global warming whitewash.

The only constant in this world is change. Those that can adapt will survive, the others will perish. The folks in Naw'leans might finally realize the folly of living below sea level. Move. Change happens. It's always been that way in this cold, cruel world of ours long before homo sapiens ever began to flourish.

What a definition of educated and uneducated.

We talk, science, data model, experimental verifications, logical interpretation, prediction, engineering, management, and also philosophy.

If all those talking environment all over the world are uneducated then your definitions looks a bit different from what I know about it. If you think every thing is OK for you then have a nice time until sea water enters your home and you ride shark for fun.

No all these persons talking about global warming are educated. They just are using global warming as a platform to gain recognition . Those I see get the most recognition are politicians. Which most were educated as lawyers not scientists. They use controversial subjects in their desire to get attention . They use a subject that people are not knowledgeable of with scare tactics. Just like you have with this statement.

"If you think every thing is OK for you then have a nice time until sea water enters your home and you ride shark for fun."

I am comfortable in my understanding of the data to know it will not come a shore as a 100 foot tall wave. That the sea level will increase whether we do any thing or not. Though the area I live in is close to sea level when that shark comes to give me that ride he will only find bones. I will not happen in my life time or yours.

Can the common man understand the data to make an educated decision for himself??? I even question whether the politician can. The politician is just taking one scientists word over another's just to get votes. If he is wrong then he points to the scientist letting him take the blame.

Is there in increase in the earths average temperature I will agree that the data indicates yes. What I will not agree on is their assumption that it is totally due to the use of fossil fuels by mankind. That even the stopping the use of fossil fuels would in any way effect the warming trend the earth is going under.

By the way what political office are you running for???

"By the way what political office are you running for???"

None! poli"tic"tions are a bane of our society. I agree that the data says the earth is warming. The cause is yet to be determined to any degree of certainty.

The only constant is change. How you manage that change is how successful you are.

The release of methane hydrates and or the rot of the permafrost are natural phenomenons. But one does not plan ahead by a lack of discernment and information.

IF (big if) these sources release quickly the change will be much faster.

I'm pro progress, but the difference between medicine and poison is but the dose.

Some people can't see the Hegelian tactics from the reality. Politicians move masses by emotions not logic. If we fined politicians by the unfulfilled promises and lies there would be no national debt in the U.S.

2 more cents from

Brad

Shyam, I am sure you are not stupid or you would not have the position you have. Many educated people disagree with each other, but Global Warming alarmism is a politically Leftist position which has more to do with emotion than facts. There is evidence that the Earth has been warming since the Little Ice Age of the 1500's and that the climate of the Earth has changed many times throughout history, both colder and warmer, entirely without the influence of Man. The facts are that the GW people have falsified historical data, use inaccurate data, reject data that doesn't fit their theory, rely on computer models that are questionable in order to please the Leftist politicians who control their money, jobs and reputations.

No sane person will stay in their home when sea water enters as a result of ocean levels rising. They will WALK to higher ground and find new homes. If the rise is 2.5 cm per year it will take 40 years to rise 1 meter, I think that will give them plenty of time to leave. No mass rush, no huge refugee problem. More water surface gives more evaporation and weather patterns change. The last warm period several centuries before the year 1000 saw more rain in North Africa and it produced most of the grain for the Roman Empire. The climate of the Sahara was wetter when you go back to the much warmer period some 7.500 years long after the end of the last Ice Age. A warmer climate will also make vast areas which are now too cold available for farming, so there will be plenty of land for people to move to.

The change in climate will make the Earth different, perhaps even nicer, but there are people who view all change as bad, who will pass laws, restrict freedoms, exact high taxes and even kill to prevent change, they are the problem. We do need to adjust and adapt to a change we cannot prevent. To the GW alarmist we must reduce CO2 emissions, or tax them, even if it destroys our economy and civilization. They would tax breathing [you emit 2 pounds, about a kilogram of CO2 a day] and what of those who cannot pay the breathing tax? Stop them from breathing, the filthy polluters, without a twinge of remorse or guilt, since it is to "Save the Planet".

Shyam, I'm sure your mind is made up and you don't want to be confused by facts from the opposing side, but step back and think again. Perhaps you can at least admit there may be some doubt about GW as espoused by Algore and his ilk. I am in favor of cheaper, cleaner and more efficient energy that costs less, not more. I am opposed to the REAL pollution, particulates and toxic gases, that are dumped into the air. But CO2 is not a pollutant because we emit it, breathe it and plants require it in order to make oxygen and food.

See: Climate records for the Holocene [the present era] and define what is a "normal" climate for the era. Define the beginning of the present warming trend and you will see it does not start with big industry. The Vikings could grow wheat in Greenland, but you can't now because it is still too cold. Look up some real historical facts.

Hi Taganan,

That's a very good and detailed post. However, I disagree. I think I'm correct in saying that the majority of the world scientists are of the opinion that GW is occurring and that it's due to human activity. I acknowledge the disputes over this, but is it not better to 'play safe' ? Whatever the situation I think it's better to play safe, and waste of any kind is always a bad thing. Irrespective of ones view on GW we could all make effort to reduce power usage. Any form of power generation that chucks stuff into the atmosphere surely can't be good. Similarly, emission from cars are not a desirable thing. Reducing pollutants should be of concern to all, whatever their thoughts on the GW issue. In the past few centuries we have chucked more pollutants around than all the preceding years of human life. I can't help but think there will be a price to pay for all this. Make a mess in your back yard and someday you'll have to clean it up. With GW the 'lead-time' is not known (if it is a fact). Even if one doesn't believe the GW argument, surely it's a good thing to reduce power consumption and pollutants.

We can disagree on Algore and his alarmists, but I do not think a consensus automatically is correct, especially with politicians pressing for a result they want.

Any way I can reduce my power usage and costs, without sacrificing my living standards or paying more money is good. Certainly we should reduce pollution, but without harm to our economy, freedom and standard of living. The anti-CO2 people could carry their insanity too far. You emit about 2 lbs of CO2 a day by breathing. When do they decide to tax breathing? When do they ban fire?

As a conservative I too want a clean planet, but by sensible planning, incentives, and not draconian laws and taxes. I love wildlife and want to preserve it for future generations, because it tastes good.

because it tastes good.

ROFLMAO ! OK, Let's go out and start eating vegetarians as well. The only reason I haven't helped Greenpeace 'Save the Whale' yet is that I don't have a big enough freezer.Yep, sanity is just majority opinion.

Hey Kris, Love fresh game. Vegetarian-ancient word for poor hunter.

I don't eat anything with a bigger brain than me. I don't hunt endangered game (some of the stats are pure bunk both ways) I don't hunt the best stock but cull the herd.

Most greenies don't do any real research just get led by their emotional reaction.

I grew up in the North West, 10,000 people in one of the larger counties. Mostly political bull and people taking advantage of it. No one wants to be accountable for their own actions especially the gov. The greenies think they cause change but are mostly the instrument of change for others. (followed some of the money)

Cynical maybe but when the bandwagon comes along I start looking for who benefits and long term results. Things seem to get fishy fast.

Brad

cO2-GW is a pretext, just like endangered species are a pretext to conserve wilderness. The present power structure have effectively stifeled pollution controls, after a quick start in the 60's & 70's.

The GW discussions are part a larger Progressive agenda which includes: Free trade, living wages, environmental justice & the waste of resources.

Literally billions more people, want to have the same standard of living as you & I!

We'll all have to have our thinking caps on to make this possible.

The world of $90/bbl oil, makes efficency seem alot more sensible.

Where I live wood fire is nearly banned, but not because of co2, the enemy is particulate, coupled w/an inversion layer.

Save the spotted owls, their delicious!

I think that if not the real cause, the technological revolution is at least at part responsible for global warming.

Remember that a 1 to 2 degree "mean" global warming may translate into other places getting a lot colder. The Earth engine is going to go through a major shift. So what...

This could mean an increase in the Sahara. It could also mean another dust bowl in the US. Potentially this could tip the balance of power to another nation. It's not just higher water marks we're talking about here.

Whatever happens (and whatever the cause) it's going to be interesting to see how it changes the balance of power in the World... And it will change the balance of power!!!

Give me reason if you believe otherwise and if you think, people will ever try to change their views and will stop burning the earth. Given a change, almost every fellow wants to blow the earth for his / her fun.

In a panicked, fully educated voice:

It's all happening again. It's all happening again.

Get over it and turn the appliances off or down. I love hypocrites and their antics to make a point that comes decades too late. We are on the same planet and our visions are blurred by time and unreliable data. Get a hold of your self and seek higher ground. (Not so panicky voice).

Australia has just joined the Kyoto protocol and it needed a change of government to get there. It will take a "hard rain's gonna fall" experience to go all the way and keep on track. Love Ya's all. Still. Ky.

PS. I am only 6.23m above sea level. And envy broke out.

Hi ky

Nice words from you and I can have my tea with less pain.

I read that line in the news paper and people now are thinking all over in same line or started believing what has been said to them for long and now that they can see to what extent wrong is going on to believe and act upon. It is no longer a scientific debate and people from street know all story.

Even if we all apply breaks at full pressure, environmental vehicle drives will drag for many years to come before they come to our control.

In India, we only put a dam and it caused biggest earthquake and we lost a city at Latur dam. We are on highly fragile earth and very often now see something we have never seen in our life. Tsunami hit our east coast badly. When water is rising high in the sea, it is now entering cities and killing people easily. There were not so many death in 1000 years coastal history as many I have seen in my 20 years stay on east coast in India. No one really counts deaths in Bangladesh as if they are not human and their death does not matter to us at all. I feel pain for them. Mauritius can not take one Tsunami and will become part of History. Do they count to us as part of our civilization? I wonder. Each country wants rapid economic growth, for what? We can't use what we have to remove hunger then what use will be all economic development is few zones and disasters everywhere?

I have seen 10000 human bodies floating on our sea coast all of a sudden twice in this 20 years. It is horrible feeling and hard to come out. I may see many more such things in coming years in my short remaining life.

It is very good that people of the world are now thinking together and perhaps will be much better if we all work together for good for all of us.

It is very good that people of the world are now thinking together and perhaps will be much better if we all work together for good for all of us.

Dear Shyam

I have followed many of your comments over the times and conclude that you must be a very nice person to be around. What would be the least of my intension's would be to stop you having your tea and feeling in comfort. This is not meant in any way sarcastic.

I have just replied to another participant in this discussion and made the statement that there are more burning issues than climate change at hand. It is all so in the face, that it stops me from having a cuppa in peace. You, being wittiness to thousands of dead and uncounted humans are the best example of neglecting the problems at hand. And so am I! Every day we come across numberless suffering, mostly avoidable but never counter acted by the "movers and shakers" of this wonderful place in the universe.

We will have to endure, or take over the running of the world as we know it, or we are doomed. Now that is something that has to be attended to in a different forum.

Don't be afraid, be very afraid!

Lets do it. Ky.

It is good to concentrate on other important issues as well. Being an engineer, you need to plan and work as professional engineer and so it is for other professionals. Worst is for those who will not get food if they don't work.

Yet, we have a group of people who can do more in this direction. Question remains of what is to be done about it. Do we know the way out or at least list the things that will be positive contribution. Without this the discussion will be meaningless. Let us all put things here and give them some level of priority.

I am devoted to environmental issues and I do everything possible with almost every bit of time I may have. I am sure your priorities may differ but ideas can be common. Point here is to get into discussion, and find ways we can be of some use for making things somewhat better. I am optimistic that some people sure will act seriously.

We had a nuclear power station near Madras www.igcar.ernet.in where I worked for many years. We involved local population in emergency handling drills and local administration was also involved. They were trained to arrange few hundred vehicles to transport people away from sea coast emergency zone in few minutes. We had several mock drills to see how this works and results were great. Then came Tsunami right inside our reactor zone and their experience came to real use even though they were never expecting Tsunami there and drills were only meant for nuclear explosion or other similar emergency. There were only few death in that zone and only those were right on sea shore became victims. At other places things went seriously wrong as they had no formal training to survive. Others should learn from such model of handling emergency.

People have to learn to survive from likely problem need to be the part of the local administration responsibility. Type of emergency may completely differ from place to place.

Now that I have brought out this point that unless we say what is to be done, we have no point to improve upon. Let us all think about this and it will be much better idea. I am sensitive and fully devoted for the cause and will be working endlessly as long as I have strength. I do other things only to get finance for this cause.

Dear Shyam,

you posed some very important questions and statements which may be better discussed in a new thread because the scope is much wider than global warming.

These are:

1.How can we manage to bring peace and smooth development and friendly (more or less) acceptance and (may be) cultural acceptance to peoples and governments.

A big success of this was the story of Farnce and Germany, starting a real cooperation after 1150 years of a history that was often declared as "enemies forever".
(C.deGaulle and K.Adenauer started this, honor to them.)

2. There are at the same time bad examples, you mentioned Israel-Palestine and I would like to add the former states of Yugoslavia.
Tell the people of two neighbour states that it will be good to slaughter the neighbours and rape their women, and they will start to do so after 20 years or so.
So start to tell people the necessity of friendship to neighbours, you will have success after 20 or so years.

3. What are real or expected dangers that can (may) disturb or destroy a considerable part of a countrys economy and wealth?

3.1 Global warming or coolin

3.2 Sealevel rising or falling

3.3 New human illnesses that kill or result in chronical illness of a considerable part of all humans.

3.4 New crop or feedstock illness that is resulting in global starving.

3.5 Loss of wildlife

3.6 Inability of a major part of countries to regenerate with active and educated youngsters.

3.7 many more that I cannot imagine.

I do not think that your fear of geologic and volcanic activity has a real basis and is really a problem. I do know only one volcanic event that caused large scale change of history: the blow up of (30km diameter) Santorin volcano in Greece 3200 years ago that drowned the Minoan culture , made problems to Egypt of the Pharaos (enabling the Israelites to leave Egypt) . This would be amajor event also today but not an event that would disrupt European economy nor worldwide economy.

The earth crust is cracking as you stated (as any brittle material subject to shear or tension) but this is not a problem as the crust is floating on the mantle and only at the extension zones where the plates drift apart there is magma material coming up. (And also at the subduction sites and the shear sites.)

Only on very rare geologic instances huge masses of volcanic material is upwelling (the Deccan Traps in your country). This is possible if a hot spot of the mantle (the sites where there is a slow but permanent rise of mantle material driven by temperature differences) if this hot spot is matching a rift valley or a mid ocean ridge. This condition was not met again for the last some million years so it is not a real danger. May be in Germany there will be a near miss or a hit: the hot spot that is generating the volcanoes in the small "Eifel"-mountains northwest of Frankfurt is only 100km apart from the northern end of the rhinevalley rift zone. The last volcanic activity was violent and would disrupt major parts of German economy if again but it was 10thousand years ago and since then nothing except CO2 sources bubbling.
I suppose that there is only one volcano that can bring worldwide disaster: Yellowstone.

The most important question would be: how to bring governments to tell permanently: we are peaceful and we need and want permanent peace and act accordingly. And do not forget to be able to defend if attacked. (Let the enemy in and survive them or defeat them?)

And: as important: how to localise the mad people who think they are right with bringing terror and rape and war over any other country: there is neither a worldwide accepted moralic concept nor a police that is able to establish or reinforce these.

RHABE

Dear RHABE

You made a wonderful analysis of possibilities and also made good suggestions.

Assuming that earth warming and cooling cycle is natural and we are only seeing an accelerated form of it now, then the priorities have to be:

--> Invent ideas to be acted upon and we do everything that slows down the accelerated process of earth warming and sea rising. This may involve multi-dimensional approach to get significant results and will give time to the earth habitat to absorb environmental shocks and to discover or find ways to survive in new niche.

--> World can accept skilled migration more freely such that people with skill dislocated from affected zone not only find place on earth but to a country where they go also do something good for loacals. It sure may deform local system but results may be for good rather than ending up in bad.

--> Higher priority to teach survival skill to those who are now in danger zone.

--> Greater responsibility on the local government to find place for such dislocated people under conscious plan to be settled within own country or elsewhere in case of drastic problems, with mutual negotiations, understanding and compensations.

--> Greater allocation of funds for disaster handling, and some of it can come from other less affected countries to the countries that are badly affected. It should be a collective responsibility to handle task and to support country which gets affected beyond its handling capacity to be considered as responsibility of the rest of the world.

--> No country in fact will remain sovereign and isolated from what is happening in their world. All types of isolation barriers need to be pulled down wherever they may exist. To build world democracy, we need to make the zones of the world also at the similar level. This is not easy as many places power rules are existing and world does not like all that but hardly act against due to accepted sovereign concept of countries. I think all types of civilizations can coexist in world with democracy and none in dictatorship. We can leave some countries of such nature to survive on their own who do not want to be the part of the rest which is willing to work together. Evil can be placed inside lockers but it rarely can be made to disappear. I agree that you can not make friendship with evil and the world will not be without evil.

Excuse me about my English as it is the way I think and I have never learnt it in any class room and never read any grammar book. As far as possible, I try to communicate my ideas properly. I hope you can understand the ideas beneath.

It is very good that people of the world are now thinking together and perhaps will be much better if we all work together for good for all of us

While I fully agree with this statement, I dont believe that the so-called "global warming" crisis need be the spark to ignite cooperation. I personally believe the GW crisis is nothing but politically motivated bunk. I do believe, however, that unless mankind begins to quickly see that beneath it all we are brothers/sisters and that brothers/sisters need to help/care for each other in times of distress, we will go "down the tubes" together.

Dear Acqua_doc

Survive and let others also to survive is the main purpose. RHABE made few very interesting points and I have listed few things to supplement it. We can co-exist in world diversity as one identity; "the people of the earth". I love world civilizations and each have their own beauty and if merged together then colors will be lost for ever. I feel good that people think differently and try to achieve goal by making efforts in different directions like the way we look into different ideas in research. Civilizations do lots of their own research to reach to a level accepted by their civilization and it is not for an individual alone. While now there is greater acceptability of individuality within permitted norms which we also know as freedom to decide about the self. Many of us on earth do not experience such freedom in forced cultures and perhaps that needs reform. Those enforce force are cruel and need to understand this. Civilizations and cultures are to make life pleasant and purposeful. Some amount of discipline may be Ok as to live collectively and use resources collectively we need to form rules to avoid chaos.

Egads! Global "fever" appears to be more of a political movement or religion than a rationally thought out problem.

Consider:

As recently as 10,000 years ago we had an ice age with glaciers extending well into the northern American and Europe continents. It warmed up. Were the cave men driving SUVs?

How many research grants are awarded by the United Nations, U.S. and EU governments to prove that global warming is not happening? Not many, if any. Follow the money.

The weather forecasters can't get it right for more than a few days at a time, let alone years. Look at the dire (and completely off base) predictions regarding hurricanes in the last two years.

How many of the shrillest voices are hypocrites with private jets and limos? Ride your own bike!

Like most people, I am in favor of clean air and water. It only makes sense to conserve energy where possible, especially when energy supplies become political weapons. My biggest fear is not naturally occurring sun sponsored global warming but that the bozos in charge will actually try to take some action to counter it. Nuclear winter?

There is no question that we should be conserving fossil fuels of all forms on a global scale (and we certainly should not be burning it to do things like generate electricity). I too, have an open mind but, does anybody else remember similar political and environmental hand-wringing and concern about "global cooling" 20 or 30 years ago?

Not to be an alarmist but from the information I've seen it looks like weather phenomena will be amplified. To what degree is still being argued however there seems to be a general agreement dryer regions will become dryer and wetter regions will be wetter.

There will still be snow and cold weather in the near polar climes and the reactions which now occur between the cold masses of air and the warmer masses will be much more intense due to greater temperature differentials.

The areas which will experience more unpredictable weather are those now considerate "moderate", where the yearly averages of rain, sunshine and temperature will no longer be stable and may vary wildly from previous norms.

Rising sea levels will affect many areas with gradual inclines from sea to land such as salt water marshes and low lying coastal plains. The US is expected to lose as much as one quarter of it's coastal cities and the state of Florida could possibly lose half of it's area to encroaching sea water in the next one hundred years.

As sea water penetrates further inland contaminating wells and farmland there will be a forced population exodus to the more fertile areas, straining an already crowded ecosystem. Disease, famine and gang warfare will result from overcrowding.

Populous countries such as India and China will have millions of refugees. Their governments strained under the onslaught of food and potable water shortages, demands for housing and medical services will begin to collapse.

Once stable agricultural economies will no longer be able to produce enough foods because of changing weather and migrating populations occupying farmland. Local militias will arise and subdivide countries into regions of control despite weakening centralized government's attempts at regulation.

Population centers will shift to more stable weather regions as energy sources become unavailable or priced beyond acquisition. Unemployment, worldwide economic depression and war are the forecasted results of our overabundant carbon emissions for the past several centuries.

As I began this essay, " Not to be an alarmist", but there is little hope on the horizon to reverse the conditions which will soon cause this to be a world vastly different from the one were born into.

"Not to be an alarmist but from the information I've seen it looks like weather phenomena will be amplified"

The only thing being amplified is the rhetoric.....

How come all the predictions are a litany of downward spirals? There is never any mention of anything "good" that might happen. I am so sick of the pessimists dominating the collective space. I have spent some amount of time thinking about what is driving all of this. The only thing I can come up with is:

Power.

It's all about power and a free economy because it takes power away from "them" and puts it into the hands of the people. There is so much elitist thinking that the masses cannot be trusted with that power of free choice.

And fear causes people to willing give over that power to the "experts" who will save them, but it's going to cost just a little more money than we thought. (And then a little more, _{and a little more...})

There's a good number of responders to this thread that hardly qualify as bloody optimists! Frankly, I think the originator and those in agreement are more hopeful than those who say there's absolutely no cause for alarm. I never trust that, there almost always IS cause for alarm (as Jackson Browne put it: "People walk on by like they're safe or something.") I don't think of myself as an elitist, but there are enough mouth-breathers amongst the "masses" to not make me want to trust in the masses to do much of my thinking for me.

Yes, we have as a planet had massive climatic shifts. Apparently we are influencing the current one with increased ozone depleting emissions and so-called greenhouse gases. The result? hard to say, but even if the worst that happens is the loss of our lowest 50 meters of coastline, goodbye Miami, New Orleans, NYC, LA, Seattle, Boston, Washington DC, Houston, and Honolulu. Most likely outcome; dry becomes drier, wet becomes wetter, all else becomes unstable and violently so.

Suppose the opposite is true, and we will experience glaciation instead? How much land surface was covered by up to a mile of ice last ice age - as far south as Kansas City across North America. So goodbye Boston, Billings, Chicago, Detroit, Minneapolis/St. Paul, and Seattle. And all the cropland in between, need I add...?

Rather than form two fractious factions that beat each other up over whose pet change is most likely to be the nightmare scenario de jour mañana (how's THAT for multicultualism, eh?!?) I say we would be better served by all the best and brightest minds (all found here, just ask us!) getting together around some multipurpose solutions to deal with either one. Hope for the best, and plan for the worst. When our political leaders demonstrate a lack of vision and/or will to deal with the situation, we hand over the how-to manual and get ourselves out of the worst of the soup.

Thoughts on THAT, anyone?

From the "for what it's worth dept.", this comment by "Guest" was actually mine - why it didn't show up as such, I do not know. But I feel it necessary to repeat myself here: STOP arguing over who is right, and figure out how to prevent or work around ANY disaster scenarios! Y'all think you know something? Well, so do I, now let's PROVE it, doggonit, or stop fussing with it! Shed light, not heat...or blood...

Hopefully your beliefs are correct, the earth is not warming, the glaciers are not melting, seas are not rising and the ozone layer is intact and we will all live happily ever after in the land of milk and honey blessed by the wisdom of those who tell us "the only thing being amplified is the rhetoric".

Dear taejonkwando:

You said it nicely and almost every one knows about it and some want to close their eyes, thinking that the problem will disappear because they can not see it. Burying your head in sand like Ostrich not going to help. We are collective force and we need to get into powerful boat of time to remain afloat so build one supper boat together now. It is time and bells are ringing all over.

If people can not predict weather then that is what they have done to it. It was good most of the time and predictable without computers and now even with supper computers you can't do that. That is how the future of earth going to be. No one will know when things will go wrong and to what extent. We only know that things are going wrong in all sides right now.

We need now collective vision from all. Time for few to help many is no longer of any advantage. We need conscious thinking from all and let it be a small contribution from each of us. Cut 10% and you will feel great. There was time when India did not have food for its people. We decided collectively not to eat for a day in a week and that made food available for 52 days in an year for those who had no chance to get food. We also learnt to be with others. Once again we can do it in different way.

Good that you have such a nice positive thinking.

I am amazed at such an act; fasting for one day a week to allow the less fortunate to have access to food. Such an act on a national scale would be impossible in the western world. I bow to your superior cultural empathy.

Such appeal was made to the people of India by our Prime Minister late Lal Bahadur Shastri when world could not give us food to survive. He also placed Farmers at equal footing with Defense people to safeguard country from hunger and as a result now India has stock for three years for 1 billion people. Stock is not managed properly but still can save us for years even if not a single grain comes from our fields. We also ship lots of this food to other countries where there is famine and hunger. A request to our Prime Minister from any country in the world will sure be responded positively as we can do that now. India replaced entire bad rice crop of Indonesia by its disease free rice gene and it was all in international friendship. We will be very happy to help countries in need if at all we can do that.

I think people will stand up to the need of their country if they all feel it is genuine.

And when were we ever able to predict the weather? Our abilities at predictions are much better now than they ever were, but still don't extend much beyond a week or two. Don't attribute our inability to understand and truly comprehend the earth to global warming. We're not as smart as you would like to think. You can look back at recent history (last 100 years or so) and have seen the results of "predictable" weather. I suggest you look into the history of Galveston, Texas. The 1900 hurricane killed thousands. I suppose we were better able to predict the weather back then.

The other point is we do have our eyes open. Open enough not to blindly accept the popular global warming causes as incontrovertible truths. What ever happened to debate? You try to hypothesize alternate theories and you get shouted down by idealogues. I'm sick of it. And you wonder why people "close their eyes"?

"You can look back at recent history (last 100 years or so) and have seen the results of "predictable" weather. I suggest you look into the history of Galveston, Texas. The 1900 hurricane killed thousands. I suppose we were better able to predict the weather back then."

My goodness, what circuitous logic you propose. Weather predictions of 100 years ago were largely predicated on observing the sky such as "red sky in morning, sailor's take warning" or Grandmother announcing "rain tomorrow" when her arthritic joints ached.

I respect your opinions and the right to debate but perhaps you could clarify your objections to factual data such as worldwide sea levels rising, glacial melting, ozone depletion, and extreme weather phenomena. These are "incontrovertible truths".

You try to hypothesize alternate theories and you get shouted down by idealogues.

I've stopped trying to discuss GW with some of my friends because I tire of being called a "denier", as if a human cause for GW had been established beyond all doubt. Many *non-scientists* claim that "the debate is already over" (apparently taking this on faith since they have no personal understanding of the data) and want the mere discussion of opposing views to be considered as politically incorrect (I even know of one acquaintance who wants merely denying anthropogenic GW treated as a crime). I won't comply with this unscientific attitude. Science works by open and thorough debate of the data in a neutral forum, not by vote or peer pressure. Many scientists accept the evidence for GW, but do not see it as proof that humans are causing it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scientists_opposing_global_warming_consensus

Not to worry too much. Dinosaur's did not pollute the earth yet they vanished. We also may go after we clean the earth. Perhaps universe runs naturally that way and we have inherited some of it. We have people who make things dirty and then others who clean things. Not everything will be identical for all. It is natural and just fine.

huh? I don't see any connection between your reply and anything that I wrote.

It is all right to put up your theory and as long as you feel it is OK, never mind what others say. At least believe yourself. You can never satisfy each and every one in any way. Science is not to satisfy any one but to say something that you things fits the model well.

Hello Shyam,

I trust your sincerity, but sorry, I still don't understand what point you tried to make if reference to what I wrote. One of your sentences in particular left me wondering:

It is all right to put up your theory and as long as you feel it is OK

I have no theory to put up -- I merely expressed my doubts about the anthropogenic hypothesis/theory for global warming. And whether a person "feels OK" or not has no bearing on whether or not empirical facts support a given statement. I do agree with your last sentence "Science is not to satisfy any one but to say something that you thin[k] fits the model well."

One last thing: the burden of proof rests on the person making the claim. So I have no duty to disprove the anthropogenic hypothesis/theory -- its proponents must prove it. I do accept that global warming is occurring, but I have many doubts about the rush to blame it on human activities. Especially since many global warming/cooling cycles have occurred throughout geologic history. And according to NASA, the highest average temperature in the U.S. occurred in 1934 (difficult to reconcile that fact with Al Gore's claims).

I never said the earth isn't warming. It is. The sea is rising more in some places because the earth is sinking. It happens. Change happens. Get over it and stop the panic. Adapt like we have for eons.

What will go right and what will go wrong with warmer earth?

Dear Shyam and others,

-some people will have to move: not unusual in our history, the first generation will have problems the next will be better off, we all had profit of any new incomers,

-some agricultural production will change and need relocation: same as in other climate changes - mentioned above are only a few, and we definitely do not know what is going to change the climate in which direction,

-some lowland to be abandoned: severe consequences for the poor, so give them now a chance to relocate and do not spend the money for useless CO2 panick, (I agree totally to any fuel conservation but not to spend 1$ to save 0.1 $ worth of fuel!,

-some land more humid, some land more arid, there have been temporary lakes forever in earths history, why shall we expect to live on a static earth?,

- some changing pattern of ocean fertilising by blowing dust over the oceans, this will act as a major sink for CO2 as algae are starving by very limited iron in seawater and any desert dust blown to the seas will initiate hughe algae growth, death, sinking down, burying carbon.

I do not expect the following topics to be a big problem (related in size to topics above):

Glacier melting: we had this 900 years ago, 2000 years ago, 6000years ago and many more prehistorical events, known by the sedimented layers in lakes.

Volcanic activit including marine volcanic and seismic events: may do much more damage than we estimate today but not very likely in our lifetime, the timescale of volcanism is much larger than our human lifetime. Vesuv, St.Helens and Krakatau typically burst any 2000 years, bad volcanos in germany do not burst regularly: the last very bad eruption happened 10,000 years ago, we know there is an active magma chamber below including a lot of water in supercritical status but nobody can predict eruption, yellowstone volcano (the biggest known on earth) is blowing up any 600,000 years (+-10% for the last 3 events) and if so again this will destroy half the US, donn't bother some will escape.

Any other consequence of global warming is not to fear.

What we really should fear is bad politics, bad education, careless teachers and parents, priority of money and also imperialism and fundamentalism (from all three major book-religions and from some fundamentalistic marxists too).

So I am convinced that our society will in itself be unstable. This same story is told by history: no human urban civilisation survived for more then 1000 years.
Any of these doomed because of peoples fatness, foreign enemies, illnesses, war, waste of resources, lack of training, lack of education: these are the real dangers.

In contrary to earlyer historical societies there will not be the wild tribes come in and build a new civilisation after a severe crash: there are no longer real wild tribes, all mankind depends on modern technology.

RHABE

Hello RHABE, You bring some interesting thought to the table. I agree with your observation;

"What we really should fear is bad politics, bad education, careless teachers and parents, priority of money and also imperialism and fundamentalism (from all three major book-religions and from some fundamentalistic marxists too)."

Politics and religion will be unable to cope with the turmoil of localized food shortages, population relocation, and the ever increasing price of energy. No remedies for avoiding or even recognizing potential global catastrophies are priorities in most governments.

As Shyam points out, the government of India is stockpiling food for the next round of famine. A very advanced idea in light of the western world's fragile "just in time" delivery method for food and medical supplies.

Bad politics, extremeism in religion and poor educational standards have always limited the intellectual growth of mankind. Surely without their inhibiting influence we would not only be reaching for the stars, we would inhabit them.

Dear Taejonkwando and others,

in total there is - or not? - the fact that we will have problems and there is no adequate action. (I am not optimistic about the stars but the earth is a very good and not at all optimised developmental playground.)

If the problems are made by us or by nature is not important.

There will be significant sealevel change: we shall think about it to survive.

Note: sealevel can be down at low and at high temperatures. I don't know if also the other way is possible with both conditions.

It is very important not to waste money and manpower in useless actions. (Don Quichote tried to fight the rotation of medieval windmills and he failed. So states will fail with todays thinking of CO2 emission limitation.)

The food program of the Indian government is really great - honor to them.

There should be a refugee program if rising sea is driving people from their homes. Not as UN is practising now: just feeding for survival, but incorporating into luckyer states economy. Give them a welcome and they will be able soon to feed themselves.

There should be a UN program to put pressure on singular criminal governments or dictators, and if this will not work then capture them and bring them to international trial.

There should be an education program to give sufficient education to everybody.

Who can put pressure on governments?

This program can easily smoothe the worst consequences of any disaster, and there are many more existing today compared to the may be disasters of global warming.

RHABE

It is not easy for two civilizations to get mixed and accept migration of entire lot from different zone. Look at the unsolved bloody Israel and Palestine problem.

India, on the other hand, accepted and absorbed entire Parci migrant into India and have given the greatest opportunity to be performing citizens of India. Parci people also behaved civilized accepted the land as their home and built their future to reach at top levels. I admire them. No Indian thinks of them as outsider.

I think force may also be used viciously to occupy place to survive so there will be many wars just because of environmental disaster of today. Men may become wild beasts and that will be a great loss of all we have achieved so far. In the end, this golden era will be lost forever. Even today we can see how badly people hunt for resources and use all types of force and justify it by all means. Tomorrow stress will be like open street fight and there will be no united nations table to sit together. We will not be talking like this but will be snatching from each other and killing the others thinking them as problems and finding easy solutions in bullets and bombs rather than any technology. We will not have civilized world anymore to support research and resource sharing. I see all this happening in front of my eyes and vision of coming time rolls over my mind and I can not sit and enjoy my tea anymore. While I am writing all this my hot morning tea is already chilled out. I have to take it in that form to feel future now.

Yesterday I looked at National geographic Tsunami reason search documentary and the amazing fact they discovered is shocking and unbelievable to naked eyes.

Near Bali where the fault started, the land in the sea went down all of a sudden like a step just in less than an hour to the level that it formed 350m steep razor cut slide like great canyons of America and then it started opening like a zip to the length of 1400km down the sea to form a supper Tsunami wave that travelled three times the earth become it came to calm down.

This is what I was talking about that the pressure difference building on the sea will make both sea and earth to behave very differently than we ever knew about it. We may trigger our end and them there may be no point of return for us to do anything at all. We can sit and watch the glory of earth doing clean of us all to recover in its new form to have new life system one more time. We become history to be discovered and Petroleum for the future life systems to be tempted to be used for the next earth show. Earth has simple rules. You don't care so I also don't care.

I've been following this thread & am excited to see a discussion that focuses on the real important issues of

how do we cope w/change?

what can we do to mitigate the effects of shifting populations?

how can we use this tool [internet] to support & enable those who are less fortunate?

how do we use existing political & commercial structures & organizations to the fullest benefit of all not just the select few?

Shyam, As always a wonderful topic & thoughtful replies. I feel privledged just to be able to interact w/so many intelligent, pragmatic minds.

as to the use of english, the meaning comes through! subsequent posts usually clarify any mis-communication or ambiguity. Writing w/out the additional sensory input of face to face interaction, will always be problematic.

Hail, Brave Sir Robin!

Thank you for being so articulate. Since when is consensus palmed off as science? Especially when the consensus ignores the scientists who don't agree.

These elitist thinkers had their collective undies in a bunch thirty years ago with the coming ice age.

This all reminds me of the panic surrounding the bird flue pandemic. The cry is out for millions of dollars to prevent the spread of this plague. Is it truly a threat or a bunch of biologists lining up at the government trough?

Forgive my cynicism, but I've been around long enough to detect the odor of induced panic.

Lets Face It, the data says:

The sun is putting out 10% more energy;

Glaciers are thinning over land in more area than getting thicker adding to the fluid water to the system (ice on water has little displacement effect when it melts);

The permafrost is moving north letting vegetation rot that has accumulated for up to several miles thick;

More CO2 means plants grow faster;

Sun light levels measure 10% less at the ground in Israel than in the 60's;

Methane Hydrates in the oceans are very close to their phase change temp;

Mean ocean temps have risen as an average of 1^oC plus;

Remember that:

As glaciers melt the depressed land rebounds;

10m of liquid water added over land depresses the land 1m;

Methane is stated to be 30 times more active as a greenhouse gas than CO2;

Bromine is 40 times more destructive to O₂ than Freon;

We are no better at predicting weather than 1987 even with several magnitudes more of data;

Politics and money control the funding of science incurring bias;

Convictions are beliefs that have become so ingrained that overwhelming evidence is needed to overcome them incurring malice;

It is not in the status quo's (bank's an big industry's) interest to change unless they control it;

Never underestimate the greed of others (even video game designers count on this);

Emotional people do not think logically so issues are presented in an emotional context;

The masses accept a known evil over an unknown good that takes them out of their comfort zone;

The truth is painful unless tact and diplomacy are used well.

Bad news is associated with the teller;

Science is an un exact system of peer review that corrects slowly most of the time.

Opinions are just opinions, good logic presents the means to test its usefulness and accuracy.

That's more like 2bits from

Brad Happy Holidays, Merry Christmas, Happy Hanuka!

Brave Sir Robin, Beriberi and UV have made almost all my points admirably. The rise in sea level of 1 inch per year would allow 120 years for people to get to ground 10 feet above sea level. You might get a few thousand people walking to higher ground every year. No mass exodus of refugees so no disaster. Weather patterns change with sea level providing more surface for evaporation, so there is likely to be more rain, including in dry or desert areas, turning them green. Storms are generated by the temperature differential between the poles and the equator, as the poles warm there will be less difference and fewer storms.

Look at the climate of the last 10,500 yrs [the Holocene] and show that 7,500 yrs of warmer climate is not normal and that only the last 150 years are normal. It is NATURAL Climate Change and it is a waste to fight it when we should be working to adapt to it. The political Left has seen the Global Warming cause as a way to get more power and taxes to buy votes with. It is no coincidence that anti-GW scientists are treated by the Left just as they treat their political opponents, because no disagreement with the Left is to be allowed.

What happens when the Left passes all these anti-CO2 laws and the Earth continues to warm? Will fire be forbidden even to keep from freezing? We all exhale CO2, so when do they pass the "Breathing Tax"? [We know they love taxes anyway.] If you can't pay the "Breathing Tax" do they stop you from breathing in order to "Save the Planet"? Yes, and without a shred of remorse or guilt since it is "For the Children and the Future". The GW alarmists and what they will do to people is the real disaster. Climate Change we can live through.

Personally, I do not see this as a political "Left vs Right" situation (although there are many politicos on BOTH sides that are reaping votes and funds from the controversy). What I see is this: we have a situation in which we may live long enough to see a significant change in the world where we live (and the only one where we CAN live). Yes, the sea level rise is such that we could likely walk away from it. Now go tell all the inhabitants of Miami, say, that they must this week walk away from everything they have. Different story, eh? But not so different for the folks who are walking away from coconut palm thatch and mud huts; they too are going to walk away from all they have. They just have less. Anyone who thinks this won't be a serious problem clearly doesn't know enough about it. [And please try to confine comments to the scientific method (testable, provable), not the merely political and emotional...] Those who see no cause for alarm are actually more annoying than the chicken littles because they would let it all fall on someone else...

Sure, the rich people owning the beachfront property in Miami will scream about their losses. But all of this is so gradual that it will be over a period of years. We can adjust, they can move inland and buy property which may be the new beachfront. Everyone in Miami will not be told to leave in one week and who says they must walk away from everything they have? The only things they have to leave behind are whatever is not portable or not worth taking, which is mainly real estate or junk. If I saw the sea water lapping at my lawn at high tide I would get a big truck, load up everything I wanted and move to much higher ground. I could even dig up any plants I wanted if the salt water hadn't killed them. The house is far from everything I have, but if I could move it or tear it down for salvage, I would. Yes, it would be a big financial loss, but it's just money.

Do you really think the government will resettle people in new homes based on the value of the homes they left? If you think any of the carbon money or CO2 taxes will really be used to help, you have mush for brains. You will get 30 foot single wide trailers in huge trailer parks and will never get out of them unless you have some real American gumption.

A lot of GW is political, because the Left uses the same tactics against those who disagree with GW that they use against their political enemies.

"Do you really think the government will resettle people in new homes based on the value of the homes they left?"

I don't think 'the government' will (nor SHOULD) resettle anyone anywhere. My point is that the real estate will be lost, perhaps for many generations. Little land of REAL value (cropland, mining, other production of resources) except industrial plants and transport facilities will be jeopardized, but people will expect to buy land to rebuild houses on (thereby losing some cropland, no doubt). And ohbytheway, the insurance companies that will be expected to cough up the resettlement cash will raise your rates and mine, even if we live on a Colorado mountainside (as I used to) to recoup their losses. Just like they do when the true mush-brains who build on the hillsides of Malibu or atop the San Andreas fault insist on rebuilding there after each successive disaster. Trust me, earthquakes are Nature's way of telling you to get the Hell outta Dodge!

The property not covered by flood insurance will not be covered by the insurance companies and would have little effect on homeowners insurance costs. Flood insurance pays for itself and when it comes to rising sea levels your flood policy means zip. A lot of companies dodged storm surge damage by saying it was a flood, they will dodge rising sea level damage by denying it is a flood. Can't be held accountable for the sea level. Many insurance companies won't write flood policies in those areas.

Those California nuts haven't got the guts to zone those areas for no structures at all, too much money involved. A lot of those homes have no insurance, which is why so many are not rebuilt, but the lot is sold to another sucker. See how many people in the local governments are also in real estate sales or development, especially those governmental bodies that deal with zoning. I call that a conflict of interest.

Hey, if the government taxes CO2 emissions, shouldn't all that money go to mitigate the effects of the warming? We both know it will stick to political pockets and be spent on social programs to buy votes. I oppose the government or the insurance companies covering any of it. But what happens further inland when it becomes the new beachfront? A lot of people sitting on low value property will suddenly find it to be valuable and they will sell it for a lot of money. Some win, some lose, that's life and no one ever promised life would be fair.

Well, let's see...there's the County Fair, the State Fair, the World's Fair...that's all the ones I know of. Of course life's not fair. Human justice through law is supposed to be fair though. Or at least unfair equally for all. See, here's one of the things that can go RIGHT because of a hotter Earth - we can find common ground on which to base our proposed solutions. Which seems to be happening here. At first, we had little if any concurrence on the subject, and now all of a sudden we find ourselves mostly in agreement over something. That's PROGRESS!

And yes, the insurance companies will weasel out of any responsibility, the governmental entities (like zoning boards) will abdicate authority to some higher power, and the masses will suffer whilst the fat cats prosper. Sure there may be some new, different fat cats because of enhanced property values. Maybe that's progress too. I say there's no need to deliberately add to human suffering, and much more liklihood of a state of grace (however you define it - heaven, good karma, the garden of Allah, whatever) by attempting to alleviate suffering.

Arrrr! Ya finally found out about our communist agenda!!! I guess it's time to switch our tactics!!!

Let's see... How about violin music promotes promiscuous behavior among teenagers! Arrr! That's the ticket!!! You'll not get rid of communism that easily!!!

Dork!

And they ain't gonna get into no 30-foot trailers, neither! Nearly all of those are, so far as I know, still sitting unused in a field near Hope, Arkansas. Hardly any of them were ever used to house Katrina victims.

So I guess that's another thing that can go wrong with a hotter Earth; people who suffer because of it shouldn't look for assistance from (dare I say it?) any conservative, fundamentalist form of government, because those are the folks who think that just because they made it to fat cat status, everyone has to be a bootstrapper. Well, I'm a bootstrapper in a very real sense of the term, but I still believe in lending a helping hand where it's legitimately needed.

Dear EnviroMan:

People have to learn to survive on their own in a hard way out when living will become harder and harder at their current habitat. Temporary disasters make people believe that it is only one time affair and things will be all right there after so they return to same place with new hope. Some disasters make people to migrate. Those near volcanic activity, and those live on sliding river banks find no place again to return so migrate as civilization all together. Such disasters are usually managed by the government, NGOs and general public out of humanitarian grounds. If situation warrants migration at very large scale then migrants will be serious problems for others so very likely to be treated like unwanted people.

One example of this type at low scale, which is very often seen is that whenever coal mine workers become a problem some huge amount of water leaks into such coal mines from no where and it simply removes the problem forever. What if Federal States of a great nation isolate one state and people from that state stopped to enter into other states in such disaster? We have seen such behaviour even for simple things like education and jobs and people from other states are restricted, taxed, downgraded and some time prevented and rejected. When our tolerance level is so low, how will we change and all of a sudden we will become very different people?

Proper education, people can learn and modify their behaviour, and then they can accept and help others. We have to spread awareness, that, it is essential and is our duty to do so. It may sound contrary to personal freedom and dignity of life but to large extent there will be many who will not survive holding on to their dignity idea of self survival. Some are tough and will survive anything and in every situation. Such people may also help few others.

If it is worth spending few years in military training for national interest then it may also be worth living an year on sea and an year with Eskimos to learn all tricks to survive likely bitter environment of the earth. We also need to understand people of the earth as one family to great extent to show collective positive thinking to arrive at meaningful conclusion.

"...then it may also be worth living an year on sea and an year with Eskimos to learn all tricks to survive likely bitter environment..."

I concur that it is worth an individual's time to learn the ways to survive in harsh conditions. In fact, I have done so in several (though not all) of our planet's worst climates. I also agree that there are some who will be unable to survive, not because of the rough living conditions, but because of the fragility of the human psyche in some people. You've seen disaster survivors as have I. Have you not seen some who escaped physically unscathed, but were so mentally, emotionally, spiritually destroyed, that they just...gave...up? I have, and it's sad to see. But there are also some who are so toughened, either FOR disaster, or perhaps FROM disaster, that they seem capable of surviving anything.

Yes, mass migrations will likely require, and have, some degree of "management" by governmental entities. My point is, don't rely solely on that management. Don't depend on assistance from without. Rely instead on what you have within, and if you have a bit more within than you need to ensure your own survival, then do as much as your conscience requires (or as little as it can stand) to assist others less fortunate. At least that's how I manage to sleep well...

Hello EnviroMan:

Nice to hear that you venture out in nature.

If you look at earlier way of migration among civilizations and survival of the toughest in the group and finally making their own new world was almost the way Darwin has projected "The Survival of the Fittest". In current era we intend to protect weak and often want to support weak group/s or society on moral grounds. This is some what different from what was natural, the rule of the strongest. It used to be rather worst and people were made slaves. They may still be so but in unacceptable manner and against the rules of the society. The current time gives some what better representation of weak in stronger society and restricts stronger not to cross the limits. This also makes one to think of responsibility towards weak people.

There were always groups of people who made their ways to exert force on the society and were to rule over others. At the same time weak were to find ways to survive in worst conditions also made their groups to remain safer as long as possible. We see all that in tribal even today. Tribes teach their people tough things to survive and isolate themselves from others and do not consider rest of the world part of their being.

We have recently seen that not even a single tribal man or woman died in Andaman when Tsunami waves crossed very high there, but educated lot living in hotels and ships and boats were tortured by waves and finally got killed. If we do not learn survival skills like those tribal people, who can face such disaster easily, then, no one else but ourselves to be blamed for it. Most of us are really very weak than we may look like one. Engineering, job, money, house are not our real strengths, but our capability to face natural disaster sure is.

My daughter who is a doctor walks 50-100 miles at a stretch and can easily climb hills is much better than me. Last time I did tracking with her for 15-hours on a hill and I was almost on ground if not dead but she was just fine and was holding all my luggage and water on her back. My son was also fine. I, my wife and my another daughter were very tired. This was a very good test of survival capability. I was very happy to see my daughter and son in that tough form. I feel all children of the world to be made tough and this needs to be accepted everywhere. Perhaps only medically unfit can live to survive supported. If we make our people tough towards nature, then less problems will come in difficult time. They can help themselves rather than being dependent and burden on others.

Emergency preparedness and drills are always helpful if done number of times ahead of emergency. They can also be a part of the local culture according to local needs. It can be fun as well as highly useful in disaster management.

Our chances to survive as human race is more in becoming tougher to nature. I am not advocating violence and WWF type life. Making body and mind fit is an essential evil for this bio-mechanical system to be here for longer. I think we have come long way as human race because our ancestors were tough and they survived here. We can go easy way exit route, because we are happy with whatever we have like home, car, mobile, music and video, computer and credit card etc.

Fit Body fit mind!

Fun as education a wonderful concept.

We need to enable innate survival skills.

Katrina was living proof that Bush doesn't have a clue concerning domestic policy, and Iraq is living proof that Bush doesn't have a clue about foreign policy.

So what's he good for? Perhaps we could make sausage out of him...

I find It interesting, when people suggeest we should abandon NOLA. As if we could just abandon one of the largest ports in the US. The levee boards & the army corp of engineers, have been sucking up money for years, providing patronage jobs & contracts practically since time in memorium. Katrina provided yet another opportunity for haliburton & blackwater to line their pockets.

Hi Garthh,

if the water rises for 10, 20, 50 m there will be a trade off, also may be if the water goes down,

same if there is too much sediment coming in (main reason for shutdown in history but may be no longer of importance).

Have a very good New Year!

RHABE

NOLA & the surrounding, have spent lots of $'s keeping the Mississippi river channel deep enough to keep the barges moving & also to keep the river from taking it's preferred path. Throughout the world the ports will & have spent vast sums to keep the status quo. The other coastal area's will have to do the math. Since the changes won't happen exactly overnight, the decisions will be put off & possible solutions won't be implimented until the costs skyrocketed! Lots of painful discussions need to be had, the choices will only get harder as more time passes.

The truth is painful unless tact and diplomacy are used well.

You have used both with out causing pain and still solidifying part of the truth. The abundance of truth can be overwhelming at times and only time can and in the end will tell.

When the first cars roamed the streets pessimists said it will cause havoc. Well it did, and if you go by the figures/statistics, they were right with their assumptions or is that presumptions? It has turned into the most deadliest pest of all times. Thanks so much Henry!

We should respect the situation on all levels all of the time and the human resilience will conquer any challenge. Unless we don't change other issues which are even more in the face than some catastrophe in the how ever near future. We have no chance of having and keeping the life style we are enjoying at the moment. Remember we are only a small part of the planets population!

Discussing the other issues is not the right place to do right here so leave it to us all to work it out. I'm with you as we say here.

My Grand Daughter loved your Santa. I did a bit. Have a good one. Ky.

The thing that many people don't realize is that a 1 or 2 degree change in global temperatures doesn't mean that everything will get hotter. All sorts of changes will occur. Meaning weather will most likely get more erratic.

Think that earth is balloon filled with fluid and if you press more on one side it bulges the other side and some time that may also crack. This is what is happening with the earth crust with movement of water from one storage place to sea. Now all pressure is building on sea surface so low pressure will built on many areas where we live. Surface cracks are bound to develop and we will see earthquake and volcano activities where we expect it least. Changing pressure will make the continents to start migrating at rapid rate and it all will cause problems at many critical places.

Migration of people after being uprooted from place of habitat and leaving without resources have never been a great venture. Whenever, we place a dam in India, thousands have to leave their home as the land they own submerges into water. These people no nothing else then surviving on their land and finally become baggers who were once landlords with pleasant life style. Migration of highly educated and willing people is far different than migration of those who were living at place for many generations and were having living from local environment.

Earth warming is not just a bit of temperature, it is something which takes us from all side for kill. Some will survive in almost very difficult condition but are we making that choice now?

Remember that a 1 or 2 degree mean change in the tempereture on Earth's atmosphere could mean that other places could get colder. What this would mean is much more erratic weather paterns on Earth.

Typical of arogant humans. Can you tell us all what the 'ideal' temperature of the earth is? I would suspect that for every species that suffers due to 'global warming' ten will thrive. Furthermore, if humans become extinct the earth would be better off.