Concrete plugged pipe

Are we talking sch 40 PVC pipe under a slab? Is this pipe a floor drain with a P trap? Need more info to give you a better answer.

Thanks,

Dave

Can you get at it from the other side? If you can see the top of the tube, could you not try popping a drill of appropriate size down through and break out the remainder? Can you give us a sketch of the thing? Are we talking totally full of just the first few inches?

Probably the simplest way is to replace the damaged section of pipe.

Another question comes to mind: slab on grade or floor deck in multi-level construction?

I have an idea! Push the concrete out of the pipe by applying water pressure from the other end. This has the best chance of working if the pipe is straight. Another idea would be to break the concrete with a chisel and hammer. If the plug is long you may need a longer chisel but the same hammer should do. Again this has the best chance of working if the pipe is straight.

Pour Coca Cola in the pipe at about 16 oz.I f there is only a small amount in the pipe,you should be able to shove a fish tape through the pipe.

Be patient though because it may take a couple of tries.

1. Once you pour the Coca Cola in there,you need to let it sit for a couple of hours.
2. Break off a piece of steel fish tape that is long enough to reach the concrete in the pipe,cut the end so that it has a sharp point and cinch up the fish tape in a drill,shove it in the hole and let it rip.
3. if this does not work then cut a hole in slab and replace the pipe with the concrete in it because at this point you are screwed.

Watch out for the coca cola, though. It's important to remember two things:

1. The coke will loosen everything that isn't nailed down inside that pipe. You are very likely to end up with clogs you did not anticipate when the scale and other slush that has built up in the pipe over time suddenly all wants to travel out at once. And parts of the pipe that have thinned over time due to acidic sewage buildup will open right up to major leaks after being exposed to the coke. Some of the worst clogs are caused by those deodorant blocks that don't really totally dissolve during use and then coagulate to reform in the cold environment of the waste pipes.

2. Don't drink the coke after you use it. Tastes terrible! just kidding! just kidding!

Mark

What is fish tape and why will Coke cause it to become more malleable?

Coke is acid, eats concrete. Fish tape is a thin, flexible, but strong metal line that electricians use to get a starter line in conduit, walls, etc. so they can pull wire through afterwards. It probably has other uses, but that is what I used it for when in high school.

Coca Cola is predominantly Phosphoric and Carbonic Acid, Concrete is a buffered basic compound composed of Calcium (and some magnesium) Silicates and Alumino-Silicates. While concrete may transform in Coke, the various products that form are all very insoluble, and the phosphates are even less soluble at low pH than the other precipitates. Calcium Phosphates and Carbonates are strong crystals nearly as strong as silicates. Add to this the fact that the phosphates and carbonates buffer the solution, and the carbonic aicd is driven out of solution to form CO2 in acid environments at pH 2. To dissolve concrete you want industrial strength plumbers drain cleaner. This is composed of concentrated sulfuric acid. This will dissolve concrete, forms a weak crystal structure typically found in the mineral form gypsum, the calcium sulfate formed is extremely soluble (when compared to the other compounds discussed. Plus the cost of sulfuric acid for a similar reaction will be substantially less then the volume of Coke you would need.

Hi, Guest!

That's a really good response. Thanks. Have you joined CR4 as a member yet?

Although from (sad) experience I know how loose everything becomes in a clogged urinal pipe after a good dose of coca cola. Part of the mess is due to the high acidity of the clog. Some folks use deodorant cakes in urinals. Urinal pipes become hard-clogged when the deodorant cake components reform in the cold flush water. The acidic waste becomes trapped in the copper piping and eats it away; and the coke is the last straw, so to speak.

In the final analysis, once the pipes have been snaked out and the holed bits replaced, a lighter drain cleaner (in Canada, "Zep" brand) can be left in the drain overnight, and finishes the job of removing leftover clog and some scale. The heavy-duty stuff (in Canada "Drain Flush") is reserved for the piping that hasn't shown previous damage.

My "watch out!" response was a caveat to the previous response about using coke.

Mark

I maybe wrong, I'm not very often right.

When I was doing my apprenticeship 1957-1961, coke was good for many things including the tinning of copper before soldering, you could clean copper based coins, they used to come up as shinny as anything, better than new.

For many, many years now coke is useless for this, and probably for many other things coke used to do, they changed the contents of the product.

Would it be any good for the problem, as suggested???

Hi, MOBI!

I don't know whether coke would be good for the concrete clog problem or not. Opinions in here seem to vary.

Coke used to be touted as a way to clean chrome bumpers, dissolve a tooth or nail overnight, and remove rust.

I haven't tried the tooth/nail. I suspect that is probably just some kind of negative publicity put out by some competing beverage company anyway.

It didn't do much of anything for a chrome bumper I tried it on, although together with a wire brush, I used it to clean the old grime off a (formerly, at least) chromed p-trap to a decent extent. But that could have been the wire brush at work and not the coke.

Rust did not respond in any amazing fashion to coke left on it. Because of the CO₂ fizz, I doubt that it would do anything but contribute to the rust anyway.

It definitely loosened the clogged dirt in that drain I've mentioned several times in here, and in a surprisingly major fashion.

I couldn't say what other uses it might be good for nowadays. And I too would be interested to know if it is indeed good for anything else, since it is always at hand if one needs to have some for anything including a refreshing beverage.

Perhaps someone else in here has experienced an adjunctive use for coke or a similar cola product and would be willing to share it.

Mark

The problem with this train of thought is that now and forever more concrete is the "enemy" of anything that is embedded in it. If you do not have the ends of the conduit covered; whether it is a 90 that is not stubbed up high enough, or just a straight piece that is left for some reason going nowhere, with a couple of wraps of duct tape (or whatever your choice is) then very easily you can be screwed. The coke idea is one that I have heard many, many times by the same people that have told me that putting a dirty, greasy car engine in a vat full of coke will produce a "clean & shiny" motor. The one thing that is not mentioned by said geniouses is how do you ensure that ALL of the chunks are going to be taken out with the fishtape? Tie a rag to it? Get a circular wire brush (sized accordingly to the inside diameter of the pipe) so that way you can then pull a mandrill (don't know if that is the correct spelling) through the conduit? What if this doesn't do the job? Blow the thing up? Nah... At least I don't think so... A little bit of preventiveness goes a long, long way; especially, if you are an electrician putting conduit in to a concrete slab. Buck up son, get the comp. and air hammer and do it the right way. That way, at least, you know it will be done correctly. Having said this, I am sure that this problem has been rectified by running a conduit over head in the structure, or something.

Air Compressor and a 60 pound hammer. That ought to help take care of your problem. Oh, and a lot of gumption.

Before applying any idea, you are kindly requested to provide us with a complete description to the pipe (dia., thickness, material, location of concrete w.r.t. end of pipe, ... etc.), total length of segment of concrete, pipe service, pipe location, and a schematic drawing showing the location of pipe w.r.t. the surroundings, all of that data are necessary to be known.

I am not sure Die Caster, but do I understand this problem correctly. You have actually poured this slab and now you not only have the slab thickness but also the pipe full of concrete??

Can you, first of all, actually locate the pipe position accurately under the slab. If I have got your problem right, that is the first thing you will need to do.

Ever see the Seinfeld episode where George's keys are paved into a pot hole?

Holy Cow!

Tell us--Hurry!!!

How many hours back did you goof up?

If this is a large diameter pipe (12 inches or larger), you are a contractor with the skills and ability to obtain the equipment, and you have a pit to set up in, you can probably drill it out producing a a somewhat smaller diameter.

But, if you are a regular schmoe and this is a small pipe (you are not going to like this), about the only way to get it out once the concrete is cured is to dig it up and replace the pipe. Every other method is going to take a hell of a lot of effort and then you are going to end up digging it up anyways. Been there done it.

Another option is to install a new pipe that goes around the slab and connects to the existing pipe at either side of the slab. Is that an option?

Good Luck!

I believe that you are in the USA, and therefor subject to some kind of Building/Electrical/Plumbing/Mechanical code standards, none of which would allow you to reuse the pipe should you free the pipe of it's obstructions, keep in mind that although you may believe to have removed the concrete, in reality you there will still be concrete left behind to either ruin wire pulled into it, or clog up the plumbing lines at a latter date.

If you are getting paid to do this job, then you should consider yourself a Professional. As a professional the right thing to do is to PROPERLY rectify the situation, and replace your mistake, no matter what the costs. Look at it as part of your education, and as all Professionals know...Getting educated can be quite expensive, but I'll bet that you won't make this same MISTAKE again.

Amen and amen!

Mark

right answer surfaces once again. are you and any in germany related?

another item to think about with the coke is a bit of a reach but considering your answer it just might tie in. putting ther coke down the slab is ok but whare is the pipe in relation to the slab?

what else will the resulting slurry come in contact with, better hope it is not aluminum or Al clad material.

As a full 24 hours has passed since the OP posed this rather interesting question, my guess is that they were pouring a slab in a basement and inadvertently filled up a floor drain or similar pipe. The lack of any follow up to our requests for clarification indicates he was looking for a miracle fix, which isn't gonna happen!

As many others have posted, your only fix at this stage of the game (24 hours post pour) is jack that baby out and replace it. Sorry for your situation, but nobody to my knowledge has a miracle concrete out product that will dissolve concrete in a pipe without dissolving both the pipe, concrete in pipe, and everything wthin a foot of said problem!

COE!

Remove slab.

Remove concrete.

Replace pipe if necessary.

Replace slab.

Next time pay attention to detail!

Ronald, you are right.

Is the pipe plastic or steel? Many acids will disslove the concrete if it is in a plastic pipe. If it is metalic, too bad! how far from access is the concrete and how big is the pipe in Diameter and how many inches of concrete is in it. How long has it had to cure?

Any method to try and dissolve the clog ie: with coke or acid will probably only dissolve the clog part of the way. You will still have to inspect it to make sure the total clog is removed such as with a camera on the end of a snake. This solution will be time consuming and may not work. Don't throw money time and labor into a solution that at best has a very low chance of success. Buck up and do it right. Get yourself a concrete saw and jack hammer take out slab and replace bad pipe. I am sure this was your first idea to solve this problem and will ultimately be the cheapest and best in the long run.

It is a 1in. dia steel pipe wit 2 90 degree turns in it on either side of the mess. Also the man (Maint.) no longer works here.

Diecaster

Looks like you've shit the gig mate! Cut it out with a large disk cutter and a jack hammer, then replace the ruined section or remake the slab if that is more cost effective!

Concur. Except maybe forget the disk cutter and just use a jackhammer and a shovel. When you patch the concrete back, it doesn't have to be symetrical.

And when you replace the pipe, use 3 or 4 pc of 45^o joints instead of 3 or 4 pc of 90^o joints, so your pet mouse with the string tied to his harness will find it easier to run through it if you leave your snake at home. And so will your snake, if you bring it with.

Also, if it's a liquid pipe, there will be a sweeter flow through the 45's.

And this time, plug the scuppers before you fix the deck.

Mark

I would doubt that the pipe is totally full of concrete seeing it is only 1 inch in dia. (inside or out side dia. ?). You also stated that it has two 90 degree turns in opposite directions. If this is a threaded pipe then you may have a T fitting on the end of the pipe. If so you may be in luck.

Try this, If you can see the top of the pipe chisel around it enough to get a pipe wrench on it. Try to loosen it and take it out. depending on type of sub grade you may have to clean any material that falls back into the pipe. That done just make a new pipe and reinstall. You may also have to clean out the T fitting but I don't think there would be a lot of concrete in it. If you have access to either side of the pipe you may want to flush the line with air or a liquid.

Another way would to take a long 1/2" masonry bit attached to a hammer dill and check how deep the concrete is in the pipe. Do this very carefully so as not to have a lot of debris falling deeper in the pipe. Take the easiest path first before going to the more extreme measures.

Good Luck.

It also would be helpful if you told us what this pipe is being used for, how thick is the concrete, what type of sub grade if any and about how much concrete would have to be removed to replace the pipe. Also is there re-bar, wire mesh or corrugated steel in the concrete.

Last and best resort would be to hire a professional to do the job that way you know the job will be done right and won't have to worry about the consequences later.

Let us know how it goes.

Is it GRC (galvanized rigid conduit) or EMT? Not that it matters - except for the cost. Just wondering for kicks. How thick is the slab? The compressor and hammer would be a good idea to take care of it quickly. Find the 90 that was in the pour and go back passed it and replace what was affected (read: how far the concrete made its way into the pipe), if it is regular concrete and not shotcrete, or slurry, the pipe wouldn't be TOO badly filled up. Taking the idea of all the rocks and what not that are found in concrete and it is only one inch conduit there should not be too much in the conduit to worry about.

Goodluck

Get some TNT and explode the area,

This will clear the obstruction...

Acetone dissolves concrete and will not hurt the steel pipe. I am not sure how long it will take to dissolve the concrete.

The Cannonman

I am just cleaning up masses of debris after evicting a tenant who broke a brand new window, damaged a door, left numerous (punch) holes in the walls and not to mention several garbage bags worth of the most disgusting biological waste.

I thought that my "throwing out the trash" was nearly done as I disposed of these things only to discover that the bathroom I had newly installed prior to them moving in had a large amount of granular "dirt" in it (more than even the worst shower would leave behind).

Well, it turns out they felt they would have the "last word" against me by pouring cement down the bathtub drain. Needless to say this has me a bit distressed and I could really use any advice on how to dissolve/break away this clog. I have no idea how much cement they poured down it, but I don't want to have to tear out this whole bathroom that I only just put in little over a year ago.

I will try some of the things already posted, but if anyone has any further advice I'm all ears!

Hi, Guest!

OK OK, I admit I'm going to be a bore about this, and the horses are gone, so closing the barn door might be a good idea, but only for the next time.

There are a lot of landlords who are so anxious to rent that they'll take anybody with a good story and enough cash to do first and last month plus anything else they can get by way of cash with any excuse. More cash = better quicker easier rentals.

Almost inevitably, this results in getting bad tenants. If you didn't thoroughly vet the people you allowed into your property, you got what you asked for.

If you got away with only drunks, rent evaders, drug pushers/addicts, abusers, messy people, and various types of criminals in the past who did little damage to your place upon leaving, you've been living a charmed life. This time you collected the grand prize.

If this doesn't teach you to thoroughly, and I mean THOROUGHLY check out even your rooming-house-type clients in the future, you will get more of the dregs of society posing as good people to gain your trust and get into your property.

Now that we've established the cause of the damage as you, here's some possible repair for it:

1. A sheet for all prospective tenants to fill in before renting. View all these filled-out forms and pick the best tenant from them. I'll include a form (if I can find it in my files) at the end of this. Sometimes just offering a prospective tenant this sheet to fill out sends away the lousy ones.

2. At the end of the following list of preliminary expenses, you might find it cheaper to remove and replace some of the horizontal sewage line below the house (if the toilet was also cemented, the toilet trap might have some solidified cement in it, but if the toilet was flushed a couple of times when the cement went down then both it and the vertical waste are probably not too adversely affected and may be cleaned out if you want to keep them).

2. A bathtub has a shoe drain connecting the overflow to its floor drain, and runs horizontally for six inches or so. Then you have a low-sloping pipe into the down-pipe that could run into the main (toilet waste) downpipe along with the sink waste. Sometimes you can snake out the bath drain. If it snakes comfortably, then your only problem will be with the horizontal pipes below the basement floor. If it doesn't, that's bad news; and the pipes will have to be replaced even if they're plastic, unless you're lucky enough to find a plumber with a powered rotary snake to fit a maximum 2" PVC pipe that will probably open and leak at the joints as it's being snaked.

3. Before cleaning out the horizontal line, you have to see what's in it...the amount of cloggage and potential for removal. This means camera work followed by a rotary power snake with a cutter blade. The odds are that because of the horizontal line's slimy surface, newly deposited cement can be

• chopped up and then
• power flushed out into the city sewage line in pieces small enough to be carried away by the flow.

Just be really gentle around the joints.

4. You stated that the bathroom was new, and that's a good indication this will work, UNLESS you have been using a 1.6 gallon flush toilet on a 4-inch waste line for the past 20 years or so; in which case, the concrete is only going to exacerbate the buildup of solid waste that has already begun to irretrievably clog your horizontal line due to a head too inadequate to properly move waste along the line per flush.

The 1.6 gallon flush is designed for a 2-3/8" to 2 7/8" line, and powers the waste through it just fine. The old 4" lines are comfortably cleared by the old 2.8 gallon (imperial...3.4 US gallon) flush toilet we all knew and loved --and worked usually with just one flush. The 1.6 gallon flush is almost as effective on the old 4" lines because it more often than not takes two flushes (i.e. 3.2 gallons or more) to clear the toilet water for the next user, since 1.6 gallons won't effectively remove the total waste from many average adult users.

If your toilet shares a down line with a urinal that uses a deodorant block, don't bother with the camera, just replace the line. The deodorant block dissolves with the body heat of the waste while in the bowl or urinal, then re-coagulates in the cold pipe lengths, turning both solid and liquid body waste into a solid form that not only can't be removed with a snake but also acts to deteriorate the lines.

5. If you can save the lines under the basement floor and they are four inch lines but the toilet is a 1.6 gallon flush, try to purchase a 2.8 gallon flush toilet or a dual flush toilet to replace the 1.6 gallon variety. If your lines are the newer 2-3/8 to 2-7/8 variety, then stay with the 1.6 gallon flush, and be prepared to hold the handle down (seven seconds or so) until the flush is complete and sometimes flush twice.

6. Found it! Copy and use this form from now on. It's non-proprietary, since a friend and I wrote it up for one of his clients. And in Canada at least, contract forms are all non-proprietary anyway. remember...just using this form will often scare away the duds without having to even let them fill it in.

RENTAL APPLICATION FORM

(EACH PROSPECTIVE TENANT MUST COMPLETE A SEPARATE APPLICATION)

THE UNDERSIGNED HEREBY MAKES APPLICATION TO RENT THE ___________________________APARTMENT

AT ___________________________________________________________ FOR THE MONTHLY RENT BEGINNING AT $______________

PLUS/INCLUDING ____________________________________.

PRINCIPAL TENANT ______ ADDITIONAL TENANT (ROOM-MATE) _____ DATE REQUIRED ___________________

NAME ____________________________ SIN#/SSN# OR D.L._______________

ADDRESS _____________________________________________________ PHONE # _________________________

NAME OF PRESENT LANDLORD __________________________________ PHONE # _________________________

REASON YOU ARE MOVING ________________________________________________________________________

HOW LONG HAVE YOU LIVED AT PRESENT ADDRESS? _____________ YEARS ____________ MONTHS

IF LESS THAN ONE YEAR, PLEASE PROVIDE THE FOLLOWING:

PREVIOUS ADDRESS ________________________________________________________ HOW LONG? _________

NAME OF PREVIOUS LANDLORD ______________________________________ PHONE # ____________________

REASON FOR LEAVING ___________________________________________________________________________

MAY I/WE CALL YOUR PREVIOUS LANDLORD? ________ YES _________ NO

IF 'NO', WHY? ____________________________________________________________________________________

HAVE YOU EVER BEEN EVICTED? _________ YES _________ NO

IF 'YES', WHY? ___________________________________________________________________________________

WILL OTHERS BE OCCUPYING THE PREMISES? _________ YES __________ NO

NAMES _________________________________________________________

________________________________________________________

_________________________________________________________

ARE YOU EMPLOYED? ____ FULL-TIME ____ PART-TIME WHERE? ___________________________________HOW LONG? ___________

_________ ON ASSISTANCE TYPE: ____________________________________________________

_________ A STUDENT WHERE? _________________________________________________

_________ OTHER EXPLAIN _________________________________________________

SUPERVISOR/CASE WORKER/ETC. ________________________________________ PHONE # _______________ EXTN # _______________

MAY I/WE CALL YOUR SUPERVISOR/CASE WORKER/ETC.? _________ YES _________ NO

IF 'NO', WHY? ____________________________________________________________________________________

PLEASE PROVIDE TWO PERSONAL REFERENCES (NON-FAMILY)

NAME __________________________________ OCCUPATION ______________________ PHONE # _____________

NAME __________________________________ OCCUPATION ______________________ PHONE # _____________

The information collected in this application will be kept strictly confidential, and will be used only to evaluate your suitability as a tenant. If your application is approved, a security deposit equal to one month's rent will be required prior to acceptance; and first month's rent will be required prior to occupancy. Thereafter, rent will be due on or before the __________ day of each month.

THE ABOVE INFORMATION IS, TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE, TRUE AND CORRECT.

_____________________________________________ ___________________________

SIGNATURE AND DATE

[The first blank describes the type of apartment or building. It might fill in with "Bachelor", "2-Bedroom", etc. The second blank is the address.]

Mark

(Better to be tough and survive than easy and install new plumbing.)