Sharpening two handed saw

As best I can see, you've got a Champion tooth pattern with two bevels and one raker. If I'm right (heck, I was once in '58 or was it in Madrid?), the bevels will be alternately set and the raker will be right in the middle, slightly shorter(?) and filed straight across.

You might also try Tuttle tooth (not real sure what that means but I've seen it together with Champion).

Cheers, that gives me more key words for mr Google.

Del

Hey TVP, that led me to a great site it just show how one word make all the difference. 'Great American Tooth Pattern' (The English tooth pattern would have half of 'em missing or falling out )
Cheers Dude

Del

I had that all wrong. I had never heard of Great American - I thought that was Champion. Thanks for the update.

Hi Del,

I think that the tips of all the teeth will come to a sharp point. The original cuts along the edges of the teeth will still be visible so that you just have to resharpen them.

Hi Del,

Is this a double handed saw for one person or for two people?

It makes a difference as the single person double handed saw is still only working (cutting) in one direction but the double persons saw is pull-pull so it cuts both ways.

What are you going to chop down after you have it sharp? Will the trees near Harlow be safe?

Its a two person (well it'll be Me & Mrs Cat) saw about 5' long.
It's pretty pitted and rusty, so I'll give it a quick clean up/sharpen/set just to make it serviceable for the one job I have...
We took out a biggish wild plum tree and need to cut it up as it's too heavy to move (40" circumference) Mrs Cat wants to leave a big chunk as a natural sculpture...it has sort of multiple trunks, but we'll have to cut off the root end.

It will give me something to do while it's too cold and windy to work in the garden.

Del

Plum tree wood burns real well. Hardwood will give you hours and hours of nice crackeling fire heat. Do you have a fireplace?

40" sounds enourmous though, not sure my trailor will handle that. Otherwise I would have come round to help you with my oak-buster chainsaw

Have fun.

It's a good thing you don't live in California! I you used the term "Oak Buster," you'd be trying to pull that chain saw out of your butt, sir!

As a wood worker, I'm sorry to hear how well it'll burn. A 40" diameter trunk would saw up into some beautiful lumber. Since there isn't an emergency in getting it removed, maybe you can trade with a wood worker or lumber yard for split up oak.

regards

Andy

Circumference...not diameter... Mr Pi will tell you the difference!

I used just a triangular file and filed all of the teeth on the faces they had already been filed, then touched the flat side of the teeth with the flat of the file to remove any burrs. This worked for me, though it wasn't a five minute job.

BTW, you may also want to get rid of any rust with fine sandpaper and give both sides a rub down with Nev-R-Dull. This will help keep the rust away and lets the blade slip through the kerf with less friction.

Find a partner with a similar build so that each has the same natural stroke and things will go smoother.

And remember, you don't push these saws, only pull.

Hope this helps.

And I already have two large bags of sawdust, one oak and one maple, that I am attempting to grow mushrooms in. So far, my luck has been quite limited indeed with this venture.

del what you have in the photo looks like the old timers two man loggers saw. they can be sharpened but it is really important that you have a few good quality sawyers files on hand to do it, e.g. a 12" single cut flat bastard, a 2nd cut diamond file at least 10" and a second cut round sawyers file not a rat tail or chain saw gullet file, a sawyers vise and most important is either a good quality saw set or a anvil and punch that allows the road to be set evenly with the rakers so straight sewing needle can be dropped down the lenght of the saw when you have finished sharpeing and setting it. right now i have to stop typing but will get back to you about the jointing and filing steps to start you on your way to gatting a really good tool into your workshed.. helpful to have on hand a afew black magic makers and some skin plasters. you wont be the first person trying to sharpen one of those brutes who has sliced a finger tip open on a dull or backward set one.

You may want a specialized form of saw set called a "saw wrest". See http://members.mybizz.net/~con12a/ for examples. I've got several of them, especially the Simonds one, pictured well down the page of wrests. There are links to sharpening & setting instructions at http://members.mybizz.net/~con12a/saw%20set%20website/sharpen.htm.

Interestingly (oops, another Stephen Fry moment...) the terms "top-dog" and "under-dog" come from the time when this type of saw was used to rip substantial baulks of timer lengthways, and the only way to do it was to place the baulk over a pit. The top dog would be the person pulling the saw upwards, and the under-dog, pulling the saw downwards. The under-dog would be the individual with less experience and the lower pay rate, and the one showered with sawdust as the job proceeds.

Another word on sharpening saws - it sounds as though Del already knows this - is it to rip, i.e. cut along the grain, or is it to cross-cut, i.e. cut across the grain? The sharpening technique differs. With a rip saw, the teeth are sharpened perpendicular to the blade and the cutting edge of the tooth is flat, i.e. at 90deg or thereabouts to the blade. A cross-cut saw is sharpened at an angle, so that the tip of the tooth is sharpened on the outer side. The effect with a cross-cut is to cut the outer edges of the kerf first, and then knock-out the centre, giving a nice, clean cut. With a rip saw, this technique is not required, and more speed is achieved. With both styles of saw, putting a "set" on the teeth (i.e. cranking them off to each side alternately and evenly) is essential, so that the sawdust produced doesn't jam the blade as the kerf gets deeper.

While a cross-cut will do the job of a rip saw it will be less efficient, whereas a rip saw used in cross-cut will produce one nasty, ragged cut. These days, the local home-improvement department store will offer little other than cross-cut saws for general work. A rip-cut is a more specialised animal, likely to be found only at a more specialised outlet or in the heritage tools market.

Removing some of the surface rust on the blade will work wonders if the saw is to be used for more than one or two cuts. Some medium abrasive paper or wire-wool and some mineral oil, perhaps?

A good maxim for any business - "when there is no wood to cut, sharpen the saw".

Good post, I will rate it so.

Once the blade is cleaned of rust, I find that an old wax candle rubbed occasionally on the sides eases the work and also offers a little protection against further rust too.....oil, if used, must be kept away from the wooden handles as it does not do them much good, paraffin wax is not bad for the wood.

If storing for long periods, it is best to store the blade oiled (WD40 is very good too!) but separate from the handles, in a cool dry place.(that goes for any saw!) In a large plastic bag or two.

As an off topic item, store your metal grills (from Barbecues) during winter or when not in use, soaked in cooking oil and in a plastic bag, it loosens built up carbon and stops the cheaper chromed ones rusting.

I then place them in a washing up machine before using, but oil them immediately again with the same oil.

The burned on food food protects better from rust than storing clean and dry!!! Be warned!!

Have you ever used a Japanese saw? The one I have, one side is rip and the other side is crosscut. You cut on the pull stroke. and they travel by themselves very nicely.

It's no problem to cut a three foot rip perfectly, the first time. They are really sweet!

ok ithink that this is what you have i dreged this up out of memory the set should be a total of 1/4 to 1/2 the thickness of your blade the angle of the cut can be between 20 to 60 degrees depending on how hard you want to work the heigher the degree the harder the pull

Hi Del, Try http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/environment/fspubs/77712508/toc.htm . Some information there. TrevorL

Update:

Thanks one and all...the saw is pretty rusty (the photo was the 'best' side)

I'm about half way through now, I went over it with a coarse sanding disc on a power drill, then a wire brush..sprayed it wuth plus gas and wd40 and wiped it down..still very pitted...but if I took the pits out there would be no saw left .

I filed a couple of teeth by hand but realised this would take for ever.
Now... promise not to grimace or throw up your hands in 'health and safety horror...
I took a thin cutting disc and mounted it on a mandrel so I could use it in my power drill, nice and s_l_o_w to avoid over heating the (rather nice) steel, it's proceeding steadilly now...need a fairly steady hand and eye (plus breathing mask and saftey glasses).

I've done about half the teeth now..so by the end of the day I may have a pic of the sawn stump and the saw! Most of the teeth were worn/rusted so much that you couldn't tell the actual angle.
So it's back out to the garage, do the rest, set 'em then give it a try out.

See ya later guys.

Del

Update pic...

It tended to bind at first but I carefully adjusted the precision calibrated hammer blows used for setting the teeth...
Stopped for a bite to eat (and Mrs Cat wanted a rest).

Note beautifully crafted wooden handles

Del

http://www.endtimesreport.com/SHARPENING_CROSS_CUT_SAWS.htm

Search around lots of downloadable books about tools here.

http://www.toolemera.com/index.html

The photo shows a pattern that I have not seen here in western Canada, the centre tooth would be the cutter here, and the outside pair would be the rakers

Hi Del,

below is my saw, found some years ago on a local flee-market.

Unfortunately the supply seems to fade rapidly.

The edges of the left group of teeth are sharpened so that these faces can be seen, the clearing angle being around 30 degrees. The right group is otherwise.

The rectangular holes thought for better getting rid of the sawdust - I have no idea if this worked well.

(Our cat doesn't like the tools, smelling rusty.)

RHABE

Del... Just a quick reality check here. Your not talking about a two handed saw, but rather a four handed saw. And it's really a two man saw. Correct?

You have a saw with the "Great American" tooth pattern. The center tooth in each set of three is filed (beveled) on both sides from the same side of the saw. The inside edges of the adjoining teeth are beveled in the opposite direction of center tooth. The outside edges of the the two end teeth are not beveled because they are rakers. The gullets between the sets of teeth should also be filed square and have a smooth curve. Adjoining sets of three teeth have the center tooth filed in the opposite direction to each other. Set of the teeth and height of the rakers (usually slightly below the center cutting tooth height) varies depending on the hardness of the wood and the taper grind of the saw (if any). A good set of references for maintaining and using crosscut saws can be found at: http://www.floridatrail.org/doc/View-category/Crosscut/ - sorry, link no longer available