hard drive help

The data is normally recoverable but they will charge a fair bit to do it....

Funnilly enough I was contemplating doing a thread on hard drive noise vs failure...mine has just started making a different noise...so I expect it is 'on it's way out' (about to fail).
I should of course back up any vital data...but will I? (send your answers on a postcard to.... Mr I Cantbearsed....)

Del

Sounds like your HDD crashed. The data should still be recoverable, except where the reading heads have damaged the disks, but it's a costly process that should be done by a qualified expert.

In some hard discs the motor grease out-gasses and condenses on the disc. When it builds up too much it causes the heads to stick. If the disk is not spinning, rotate it with your hand, and it may start up. The data will be recoverable if none of the heads broke off. Sometimes just letting it heat up for a while will allow it to spin up. Good luck.

Are you suggesting he open his hard drive and move it with his hand?! If so, what planet are you from? A smoke particle is the size of a boulder on the platter. Open that drive in anything other than a certified clean-room and you're talking hard drive suicide!!!

They are hermetically sealed for a damn good reason!!!

Calm down. I was telling him to spin the whole HDD. The disk has mass, therefore it will try to stay put and get a relative movement from the spin of the case. If the HDD is still mounted you can sometimes jerk the whole computer an get it to go. That has worked for me.

"...what planet are you from?"

I used to be from Earth, but now live on the Enterprise. And you, are you from the planet of the tribbles?

Doesn't he risk banging his head(s) ? What happens if you try to fire-up with the HDD upside down ? I honestly have no idea ! Another mad thought is, can he open the outer casing to see if the motor is spinning or not ? I've got an old (uselsss - low spec) drive somewhere, so maybe I'll open it up and see what I can learn. :)

Hi Kris,

As I said in my first post, he risks tearing off the heads, that's why it is better to let it warm up, then power the computer down then power up again. A HDD will work upside down. Some are mounted vertical in a PC. As far as opening it up - don't. Read what Vermin had to say. I have never tried it, and don't intend to. OK, you said useless - open it and report back.

S

Hi S,

The old HDD will get bashed later today ( I can never resist an excuse for destructive mayhem). I've not seen PC's with vertical mount drive ( though I don't pay much attention to such detail), but Ive seen them on Playstation consoles ( I heard they were not as 'hardy' as conventional flat-mounted)

Kris

Hi again S,

Here we have ye olde Western Digital Caviar 12100 (2 Gig). Somebody's been dipping in my tool kit, so I had to go for a 'sardine-can' approach;

I've completely forgotten why I did this, but never mind. What intrigues me is the 'filter type thing - top RHS White circle. It covers 4 smaller holes, and I can blow through it. Being devoid of other holes, the thing won't get any air flow, but what's this for ? It must be something to do with assembling stuff in a clean room ( well, I'm fairly sure it's not for checking the oil ). Oh well, at least I know how to erase a disk - just a couple of whacks with a sledge should see it off.

Wow, it looks like a car that wrecked into your tree. Dang, I wanted you to open it, look inside, then close it and see if it still works.

ROFL !

I may have another lurking somewhere. If I can find one, and also my damn tools, I'll see what happens. Any thoughts on those holes ? The insides are in a partial vaccum according to my check just now;

http://www.pctechguide.com/31HardDisk_Construction.htm

This link may be useful for intrepid explorers;

http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/op/index.htm

Ah, I found my filter answer;

"The construction of hard disks is performed in a clean room to prevent contamination of the disk surface by dust. If the read/write head ever comes into contact with anything resting on the surface of the platter, or with the platter itself, very serious damage to the hard disk can result. For this reason, a working hard disk should never be opened once it has left the clean room. In order to prevent differences in external air pressure altering the shape of the hard disk, there is a small hole in the disk casing protected by a very fine filter to allow movement of air into and out of the disk drive."

From http://computer-drivesstorage.suite101.com/article.cfm/the_hard_disk_drive

If you rip into it some more, you'll find some fairly strong magnets in there.

Is that in the motor, and can I cause any mischief with them ?

No. They're connected to the other end of the heads. It's as if these strong magnets are meant to drag the heads away from the platters, and make sure they don't move when the drive is off. But I'm just guessing.

Oh! And yes, you can do mischief with them.

Please all remember that the heads "fly" on a layer of air, they do not touch the disk. The layer is slightly thicker than air molecules!!! that means that a smoke particle from tobacco, getting between the head and the disk will cause a head crash!!!

The smoke particles from a cigarette, getting caught in the gap, would appear to be something at least the size of a double decker bus trying to get into a toaster!!!!

On modern streaming tape drives, the tape flies very close over the head. A human fingerprint is about 150 times higher than the distance between head and tape (approximately 2.5 microns) when streaming.

Just for elaboration; Cigarette smoke is .01 to 1 microns. The pressure equalization filter is stated here as .5 mm diameter holes ( oops, best not smoke when taking the thing up Everest and smoking ! ). Ladies and Gentlemen, we shall be flying at a height of 25 nano-meters, and may experience some turbul.........<cough><crunch, skid,eeeeekkkk>

That's funny... My hard drives have needles that touch the platter! Oddly enough, all they can store is the music from "Camp Town Races." Oh! I just rememberd, I have another one that can record "The Farmer in the Dell!"

A couple of quick questions if you don't mind...

1. Was this the only hard drive for your computer?
2. If so, what was it doing out of its computer?
3. Is this a secondary hard drive?
4. If so, do you have the jumpers set correctly so that your original drive is the master hard drive and this one is recognized as your slave hard drive?
5. How long has this drive just been sitting around?

Regards,

vermin-

My hdd started making a noise and refusing to boot and I went through all sorts of panuc thinking I had to copy all the data etc. But I've since learnt how to deal with it and now I don't worry at all cos even tho' it still sticks sometimes I can always get it started. Here's what you do; first of all you have to learn to tune your ears and get used to the sound of the hard drive starting. In a normal boot up the hard drive will whirr at the same time as the power supply but in a "stick" situation you will be able to distinctly hear the power supply start by itself and then later you may hear the hdd start up. The hdd sounds faster and sleeker then the relatively clumsier sounding power supply. I mentioned that first because it's a vital part of becoming attuned to the start up process with a sticky hdd. First, to get your ear attuned, turn on the pc and wait for the sticking noise. When you hear the sticky squeal, immediately turn the switch off and then immediately turn it on again. Keep doing this till it starts up normally. You will be able after some practice to hear when it's just the sound of the power supply by itself, and when it's the sound of both the power supply AND the hdd starting together. In the latter case obviously just let it run and everything will go normally from there on in. Sometimes the hdd will start at the correct time along with the power supply and in this case it's hard to distinguish the hdd revs from the power supply revs but with practice you will master it. Other times the power supply will start by itself (a slow clumsy revving noise) and a few seconds later the hdd will start ( a faster quieter sleeker revving noise) and that process will best teach you how to distinguish the difference so that you dont waste time waiting for the squeal of a stuck drive. When you have the sound of the hdd starting up lodged in your brain you will be able to start up every time almost as if there was no problem at all. Here is how I do it now after five years of practice. I hit the start button, If I don't hear the hdd start with the power supply I keep hitting the stop/start switch until it turns off and then I immediately hit the stop/start switch again and so on and so on until I hear the hdd kick in with the power supply. I can start up every time now using this method because my ear has become so attuned to the sound of the hdd starting up even when the hdd is starting up with the power supply - and identifying that sound is the real key to mastering the process. Of course you may feel happier fixing the problem but if you want to learn how to get around it till you can contemplate fixing it then I strongly recommend this method to you. When I was in the panic mode thinking I was going to lose all my data I bought the Norton Ghost program which claims to be able to copy your hdd on to a new hdd no problem. Huh! I never got it to work cos I'm not a techie and it most definitely wasn't a straighforward process - I would have had to take a degree to learn how to troubleshoot all the difficulties I encountered and I ended up listening to what my pc was telling me and now I don't even worry about cloning the hdd. I've got a brand new hdd sitting on the shelf that has sat there for 5 years now. I've heard that the problem is caused by the bearings that the hdd spins in. Apparently they're made of carbon and the hdd spindle is a tapered steel shaft and just one tiny bit of dust in between the tapered steel and the carbon bearing can cause it to stick, so the theory is that you have to keep "kicking" it like this till it dislodges the dust speck enough to get going. I originally got it going by slapping the sticky hdd on the desk to dislodge it into working, but gradually I learnt the listening/switching technique and that's what I recommend you go straight to cos it's a whole lot easier than opening up the box and taking the drive out and slapping or knocking it on the desk while it's all wired up and squeaking at you. Also, if you let a stuck hdd squeal too many times before turning it off then I found that it will somehow upset the BIOS and start up in SAFE mode and that's a royal pain inthe ass cos you will have to go in there and set it all back to its default settings so it's way better to not let that happen in the first place. Good luck with whatever you choose.

Holy crap!!!! I can't believe you!!!

Your data must not be very important, otherwise you'd get a second hard dive and copy everything to it - you can also make it the startup drive with Windows.

You're skating along like Paw Kettle, who spits in the back of his radio then bounces his rocking chair a couple of times to get the radio turned on! Sooner or later this process is going to fail you. I played this game with a Kaypro several years ago, until one day it didn't work!

Go ahead and do what you want, but you really are playing Russian Roulette with your data! Soon or later the bullet is gunna go right through your skull, and your data Will be gone!!!

I sure hope you don't mind this - marginal devices have a way of eventually becoming dead devices. But, have your fun!!!

It's OK Vermin, thanks for your concern, but I only use the thing for watching TV and VCD's now and then and also for doing an occasional drawing with the program I have on there. When I've finished a drawing on there I immediately send it to my MAC so there is no risk to my data if the thing never did start again - and my MAC is a much better and longer lastng and fault free device than any pc I ever had.

I think you are writing the data on the spindle. That may be the reason why it is sticky.

I have a good solution but you should backup your data first.

Once the disk has been duplicated you can remove it and use it as a door stop or something else.

Why use one word when you can you can use fifty thousand?

They say a picture is worth a thousand words. Well Guest could have filled the Tate gallery with his reply of drivel

Is it Monday morning?

Al

Guest, if you have no data that needs to be saved, what you propose is acceptable.....but if you have ANYTHING important on that drive, you need to back it up as soon as possible.

Even those people who have no problems should back their data up often......

Anyone who wants more infos on this subject just drop me an email....

http://www.ontrackdatarecovery.co.uk/hard-drive-recovery/

You say the hard drive wont boot up but presumably it is revolving??

If so make it a slave drive and copy everything off it to your new master drive before it quits working altogether. Otherwise you will need to send it to the specialist's who can rescue the data.

Follow garth's suggestion.

I'd also recommend using bootable HDD backup software. I had good results with this one, which is bootable (you don't need a working OS), and it supports copying to a external USB drive:

http://www.acronis-true-image.com-http.com/

If you find that you cannot read data off some sectors of the hard drive, put it in a anti-static bag (hardware comes in these tinted-plastic bags), and put that hard drive in your freezer for a few hours. That sounds damaging, but it's not.

What that will do is keep the HDD cooler, for longer, and you can recover more data.
Put the frozen HDD back in your computer and try to recover data again.
But don't waste time!

I mentioned using an external USB drive, but only do this if you have to. USB Drives are the slowest in terms of data transfer rates, so it will take longer to copy, and that is bad if you are getting data from a failing disk.

There are companies who do hard drive recovery. Just to a search for hard drive recovery and you will find some venders. It can be expensive depending how large the drive is. Good luck.

I had an external hard drive die on me a few months ago. This hard drive was connected to my computer and on 24/7 for about a year. I will never again use an external as a drive that is connected 24/7.

I found a few do it yourself recovery programs that I tried. I forget which one I had success with but i think it was OnTrack EasyRecovery Professional. I also tried out EASEUS Data Recovery Wizard Professional and Recover My Files. Recover My Files might be the one that I had success with also.

Those solutions would be a lot cheaper than sending your HDD to a professional but depenging on how important your data is might determine that.

How are you getting along with this.

If the problem is mechanical then no recovery software is going to help in any way, it needs the attention of a disk engineer to gain access to the data. What type of noise is it? Does it appear in the BIOS startup information when you swtitch the system on?

You could try data recovery uk services (www.drsuk.co.uk), the chap there is excellent. Otherwise try Altirium (www.altirium.com) or Diskflow (www.diskflow.co.uk I think).

Try to be careful not to risk making matters worse by trying lots of different things.