"being able to see the bigger picture"

If you really do fulfil all those criteria, chances are the boss won't hire you, because he will realize such a well rounded person is probably a threat to his own position. Been there, done that. Now I work for myself and the boss can't fire me. <grin>

I'm as cynical as Del the Cat.

Hi Anonymous Hero.

That was a great answer. I never hesitated to mark it as such.

It reminded me of the position of a conductor applying his knowledge of the instrumentation of a symphony to all involved. (Now a'days a conductor will need the know how of modern recording techniques as well).

If any part of a system is out of /sink/tune the "learned" in the field will be able to see were/what the source is and adjust accordingly because they know (Ok, grasp) and see the bigger picture.

Dedication is the fuel and success is glorious. For all involved. At what ever level or position. Love what we do and the bigger picture unfolds out of necessity.

Back to the post. See what bigger picture evolves. Ky.

Thanks!

to be able to see the bigger picture

This is is just lazy English from Human Resource departments or lazy managers who can't express themselves and don't actually know what they want.
They have generally got themselves in a mess and are hoping someone will come along and wave a magic wand.
However anyone with sensible engineering solutions or experience to solve the percieved 'long-term problems' (e.g. the bigger stategic picture) will be overlooked for some glib marketing type who spouts cliches and short term consultant style buzz words...

Jaded moi?

Del

You and Anonymous Hero both make some excellent points and I consider all these "good" answers. Oftentimes HR doesn't understand what is needed and throw out overused goofy phrases. Maybe they are like many of us and are overworked. I do agree with the hero that a big picture understanding is needed and sometimes lacking by technical people.

When I worked for a custom equipment company for ten years, there is one phase of any project that stands out. After the project was sold it was kicked off by meetings. Next the equipment supplier (us) would write a functional specification that defined the details of what would be designed. So far possibly only the customers buyers and our sales people were all that would have been involved. If the big picture had not been considered up to this point it better happen now. I wrote those functional specifications for customers like Wal Mart, Caterpillar, Dana, Kodak etc. You always hoped the customers engineer that had been involved pre-sale had a grasp of the big picture or they would have a contract in there hand for a system that in the end would not work. Oftentimes these engineers really were not able to get there arms around the project due to a lack of authority or lack of broad access to strategy.

If the project objectives involved the customers marketing department (like you are designing packaging equipment) GOOD LUCK! Even basic questions get fuzzy. You may have sold a system to handle 12x24x20 boxes but the marketing people tell you that is not big enough and they will get back with you, all the time the clock is ticking. Usually the people that could properly work thru multiple objectives from different departments were experienced engineers that had a high tolerance level.

That's an awful cynical thought. What companies really appreciate are employees that are not so myopic that they can't see beyond the details of their own little world.

One of the classic examples of that would be the VCR. This is what happens when engineers are given the task of designing a user interface. It probably made great sense to the engineers at the time, but they had no understanding nor appreciation how anyone else would use it.

Another example would be the perpetual cyclic improvement cycle many engineers get into trying to make it perfect. There comes a point where the company needs to make a profit and sell the product. Most engineers think their paycheck comes out an endless well of funds and the company can always wait to deliver a real product.

Having a little experience running your own mid-sized business will put a different spin on things. A well rounded engineer is a valuable asset to any company and if/when I hire I need someone that understands the business as well as the details of engineering. The last thing I (or any employer) wants to do is have to spend hours every day/week trying to communicate where the bulls-eye is and how to shoot at it.

One of the classic examples of that would be the VCR. This is what happens when engineers are given the task of designing a user interface. It probably made great sense to the engineers at the time, but they had no understanding nor appreciation how anyone else would use it.

Yeh ..nice example... so what did the marketing guys say about the interface?

I'm not trying to defend bad engineering, and, ok I'm being a little tongue in cheek deliberately...(I'm not really very bitter and twisted)...My real point is that the myopia is worse from the other departments....

My Dad told me how he was sent on an 'accountancy for engineers' course... he asked if there was an 'engineering for accountants' course.... guess what... No.

The purchasing guy on a Ministry of Defence project was very please because he'd got a better price on the billet of expensive alloy saving a few hundred pounds.
All hell broke loose when the whole project stalled for several days.... the original order had been for next day delivery.... the delay cost many thousands of pounds.

I think most engineers have a good grasp of the bigger picture, because of the wide range of disciplines within engineering, especially if they get out on site for commisioning etc.
I'm not anti everybody else either...I've worked with some great marketing guys who work with me and the customer to work out what can be achieved and what is really required.

Hopefully my admittedly biased viewpoint may give a new kid a 'heads up'.

I remember my Dad doing me a HUGE dis-service when he told me that the personnel department (now called HR) was there to help sort out any of my problems. If someone had tipped me the wink that they are basically there as a buffer between disgruntled staff and ineffectual managers I'd have been saved a deal of strife over the years!

But what the hell do I know I'm just an engineer

Del (anyhow..I already marked you answer #1 as good)

Good point. Real life is great, but it also nasty sides, too, and people should be prepared.

Thanks for the vote, too. ;-)

I had to do an "Accountancy for Engineers" type course at Uni. It involved double entry bookeeping and interest calculations. After the first week the (Elec) engineers went "Yep, got that. What's next" and we spent the rest of the semester waiting for the accounting types to understand and catch up.

Even more fun was a philosophy subject called "Propositional Calculus" (basically applying boolean logic to natural language statements). ffeJ

Del, I never thought of you as bitter and twisted - just a little catty perhaps, but not bitter and twisted.

I've been a "big picture" type of guy for a long time. Any picture I'm part of has to be a BIG picture!

When I sold auto parts, I often had to think beyond what the customer asked for. Every part on a car or truck is part of a system, and the failure of one part could indicate problems elsewhere. I would have to mention to the customer that he might want to check other items in that system, or ask him questions to determine if the part that he's asking for is the one that needs replacing if he hasn't brought in the old, worn out or broken part for comparasion purposes.

Of course, I had to think about the business aspects of the job. It was more than looking up parts in a catalog and helping the customers get what they needed and wanted. I had to interact with customers in a way to keep them coming back. I had to keep a watch on things while handling money, especially checks. Failing to do those things could cost the company and me some money. If the company lost enough money because of my actions or inactions I would lose a steady paycheck.

"Big Picture" is an outdated term. "Situational awareness," while it might sound like bureaucratic jargon, is at least more descriptive of the trait that actually every job requires, whether you are an engineer or a janitor.

Del,

You're spot on (I think that's how you guys in the old sod say it?). I've written maybe a half dozen job descriptions in my life and never used a phrase like that. It'd be like going into a car showroom and asking for something that "highlights my fashion sense". (Well, maybe I could and I'd get an Austin 300). But, a good manager should know what he wants from a candidate in terms of education, skills, and experiences.

It means it is a sloppy ad and it will be misinterpreted by one or both of the parties. they should rather list the additional attributes they require.

Given the fact that you have just asked that question, do not apply.

25.2.08

Precocious in one interpretation. Versatile genius, another. Could also mean that you could be called on to mop the floor as well as drive the stores delivery van! Very situation specific!

I think that Anonymous Hero and Del each gave great answers on this thread. I too have often seen similar statements in various "help wanted" advertisements, and often wondered if the company's leadership knows what is the "big picture" or really needs to hire someone who can explain it to them. And yes, I do have a bit of a facetious bent!

Regards,

Ing. Robert Forbus

And there's me thinking 'first violin' led the orchestra .

My Daughter is looking for a new job (she was doing a short contract) I was amazed at how many job ads are soooo full of 'high sounding' phrases...you couldn't actually see what the job was for!
Full of bull for the company but no actual information about the job...

What happened to good concise writing?.... Abstract, report, conlcusion, references etc.

Del

Indeed my furry feline friend.

The job I am at now was full of deception and trickery. I am seasoned and did not sniff it out even through 2 interviews and a company research session. They have proven quite deceptive indeed.

I am scurrying out as quickly as one can. I began to walk out on principle last week but was quickly reminded of the 'Bird in hand' clause.

Oh but I can hardly wait to see what next adventures lie ahead!

Not much to contribute beyond what's already been said, however, I've been told many times that I am a 'big picture kind of guy', so here's an example:

Once while working on a project where my role was to train the client's personnel in adjunct areas, I stopped by to discuss something with the Chief of the Fire Brigade. He made mention of the fact that it would be nice to have one comprehensive plan document that would cover all of the contingency planning requirements, so when his firefighters left the station, they'd have just one binder to grab instead of six or seven. Because I'd done my homework, I knew we were also doing a GIS database for the facility with all of the buildings, roads, etc. delineated. Since I knew something of the capabilities of the system, I was able to suggest (successfully!) that information be incorporated into pop-up menus that a cursor activated by clicking on the building image. This gave the firemen access via a laptop to the chemical inventory within each building, and all other manner of useful information, that could be utilized by other people too, such as spill prevention, inventory control, et many ceteras.

I prefer the term 'situational awareness' myself, but it simply means knowing the customer's business better than the customer does so you can give them what they need, not just what they think they want.

"Seeing the bigger picture" is most likely a requirement, because the last guy was difficult and stubborn to work with and only cared about his niche in the company. The phrase: "He who is good with a hammer thinks everything is a nail." applies here.

The labourer was chipping away at a piece of stone one day when an observer asked, "Hello. What are you doing?".

"I'm chipping away at this piece of stone, because that's what the Mason's apprentice asked me to do", replied the labourer.

Later, the Mason's apprentice was chipping away at the same piece of stone. "What are you doing?" asked the observer.

"Well, the Mason wants this piece of stone flat, square and parallel, and of a certain size. I can do that" replied the Mason's apprentice.

A bit later, the Mason was chipping away at the same piece of stone. "What are you doing?" asked the observer.

The Mason replied, "I am building a beautiful cathedral."