Computer chip to increase engine performance

He should sell the car and buy a smaller one. It will be a much more attractive investment.

Buy the chip, its quite common to re-chip your car engine for higher performance or cheaper running costs...

BUT do buy from a reputable supplier, any body can program a chip to sell and scarper!! Or worse still have it blow the engine up and not be covered by any warranty!

John - Oh and tell him he doesn't need 5 litres, what about a nice in-line 4 pot 1 litre engine

Thanks Electoman. He has thought about selling the car - but a 17 year old with a hot car can pick up the babes. Paying for the gas will be the lesson he learns. That candy apple red convertible is a blast to drive (modified exhaust system - sounds cool also). I have every cop in town following me as soon as start the engine. I just didn't want him to throw away $90. With 1 to 2 mpg increase it will take a while to recover the investment.

He will eventually learn that picking up babes is ultimately more expensive than the gasoline, but you'll never explain that to a teenage boy!

The problem I see with the claims for this chip is that an increase in horsepower with a reduction in fuel consumption is an oxymoron. Increasing hp is going to require more air/fuel through the engine to create that horsepower. Reducing fuel consumption will require leaning out the the air / fuel charge more than it is. You can't do both at the same time.

It's relatively easy to increase hp with a chip by re-mapping the fuel injection to add more fuel under certain circumstances. Adding a bit more fuel will give more go. On the other hand, it's tough to decrease fuel consumption with a chip. Well, you can lean out the mixture easily enough. The result will be that you increase the temperature at the exhaust valves considerably. This will damage the engine over time.

Net result is that Electroman's suggestion is the only way to really get a more efficient car. But the financial hit for trading in a car is usually going to cost more than the gas.

It might be better if he just keeps his foot off the accelerator as much as possible and learns to drive smoothly. That will both save gas and make him a safer driver.

I would suggest that it could well be possible to get both a reduced fuel consumption AND a higher power output...

The mapping of the engine would need to make the engine a lean burn economical engine with small throttle angles and loads and to increase to rich burn with more power at large throttle angles together with higher loads...

With all the necessary timings and measurements it could be done and claimed to be both economical and higher power output??

John.

The problem is that a 1995 Mustang 5.0L (that's a 302 V8, BTW) was not designed for lean burn as we envision it today. But it was leaned out as much as the engineers then thought they could get away with in 1995. They had to work to CAFE and emissions regs so there was motivation to keep the mixture lean. That's why it's easily possible to increase hp with a chip - the engine will easily handle the extra fuel.

Given the engine technology as a constant increased hp will require increased fuel. That's just basic thermodynamics.

UYou can lean the engine out more than it was designed for but unless you are on the highway a lot the extra hp requirement under acceleration is going to negate any savings you make by leaning the mixture at constant speed. Still, leaning the engine out further, even at a constant speed, is going to cause engine issues.

Now if you want to start changing engine components we can play a little game. Then again, it would probably be less expensive to buy a new car.

pick up babes, wow, does he ask you for a couple bucks when he goes out?

For that little improvement. It is not worth it, He can get better mileage just by having better driving and maintenance habits.

- get rid of the 'lead foot' will increase the fuel mileage by 10-15%

- drive slower, and at constant speed (cruise control saves 3-5%)

- slower stops will save 2-3%

- less idling, revving

- cleaner engine

- new air filter

- better oil

- Add crankcase protection - oil supplement like Dura Lube will give an increase of at least 5% for 50,000 Miles

- Ensure the tires are fully inflated to the proper pressure will make a difference.

Sorry but I can't give you a 'good answer' for that rant...

An emotional, subjective answer isn't a clear good answer, you never even tried to answer the op's question!

John.

Oh, what would you suggest? Let's give the kid the knowledge, tools, and a pat on the back to wrap himself around a tree.

Five kids dead in Ocala, Florida is not subjective. Ask their parents if you have doubts. People were giving Josh advice on how to go faster in his BMW. Would you want anyone here to do that with your kid and have him mark a tree with his blood?

Let's face it, most parents and I'll bet Josh's dad (AmericanM5's dad) mean well. We all want our children to have better things and to do better than we have done. However, a 17 year old kid doesn't have the same sense of judgement that a 30 year old adult father does. When we get that age we easily forget how lapse our own judgment was when we were 17.

I am sure that Josh's dad was proud to hand his son the keys to a new BMW. I am sure that Josh's dad was 100% confident that his son would never do anything like he did, but he did and nothing Josh's dad can do now will change that. There are five parents that have to live with that for the rest of their lives. That is not subjective.

I don't care and I don't want your "Good Answer" accolades. I don't care if you feel I am ranting.

What I do care about is prevent one more Josh in this world. That is more important than a "Good Answer" and that is my answer to the "op's" question. Life is emotional.

An M5 is not in the same league as a 95 Mustang. Todays Maximas and Accords can put down similar numbers on the track. That act of stupidity was totally premeditated and made national news. ...and won numerous Darwin awards.

When I was 17 I was jumping cars off railroad track berms and drifting corners on gravel. You can assume any teenager is going to be curious and try stuff out. As a responsible parent you need to passively know what is going on. Be friend's with you kid and tell them how stuff is, don't try to buy their affection like Josh's parents. Don't do things like buy them a motorcycle if you aren't a biker yourself and can teach them (how not to be stupid.) Check out their car to learn their driving habits. Are the sidewalls worn or the tires bald?

Ever see MTV's sweet 16? Talk about satellite parenting! Don't have time to deal with your children, how about fork over cash until they're happy?

Pretendgineer,

I appreciate you and everyones input. The question I asked stirred up some parenting skills questions and I agree with most of them. But let me explain. My son (also named Josh) inherited a trait from my sister that has caused him to pass out colder than a mackerel numerous times when he thinks about gorey and bloody things. We never realized its extent and didn't know what to do about it. He was been hauled off in an ambulance at school when in the 7th grade. Passed out in 9th grade biology class and wet himself from head to foot. When he passes out his body almost shuts down and it takes 2 to 3 days for him to get his strength back. Josh goes to school in a small town and you don't make new friends that don't know your past.

I allowed him to get the car to boost his self image this last fall. It has worked quite well so far. He has gone from a C student that didn't try, to getting on the A honor roll last semester and feels proud of himself. Josh was interested in the chip because they claim to get better gas mileage. When you make your own car payments, buy your own gas, and use your own spending money, then gas mileage becomes important, especially when your hour of work only buys 2 gallons of gas.

So thanks for answering the social and technical aspects of this post.

Proud Dad

Mod chips on gas engines make power usually through making the a/f ratio richer in the lower RPMs and leaner in the higher RPMs. Chip programmers put the a car on a dyno and adjust the a/f and injection timing (turbo boost where applicable) until it becomes dialed in. Auto manufacturers usually like to stay on the rich side to avoid any quality/warranty issues with burned valves. The 5.0 has proven to be bulletproof so unless it's a real aggressive tune, it should be safe.

In theory the chip can make better MPG but applied in real life that will never happen. That is because you need to drive like grandma to get the bonus MPG and with the added power, it's going to be too temping not to lay into it all the time.

Tuner chips on diesels work well for both HP and MPG but I wouldn't buy into "that" on a gas engine tuner.

Also, many chips advance the timing requiring the need for higher octane (more $$$) gas. That car will run perfect on 87 the way it is now.

My earlier answer was for the Mileage. This one is for the horse power.

Chances are; for an engine that old, it is not getting its full designed horse power due to numerous fowling, and wear problems. A chip will not make these problems go away and thus will not give the desired extra 25hp.

His money would be better spent on proper maintenance, and he would see more of an improvement by properly maintaining these parts:

• New spark plugs properly gapped
• Timing calibrated
• Intake manifold and valves cleaned
• Carbeurator cleaned
• desludge the crank case
• also the items listed in my earlier post.

Any of these items could easily make a difference of 25 HP

The chip is too cheap, who pays when the engine gets damaged?

It does not sound like a serious company who need to have the car in their workshop to make sure that the chip is correctly paired FOR THAT ENGINE.

Someone selling a chip that has not had this done ($90 ??? is dirt cheap) is not doing a good job....ergo. = Broken engine.....