Old Dishwasher: Poor Performance

"Our old dishwasher is leaving a dirty residue where it isn't rinsing off the crud*."

Make a bit of a fuss. You do it (once), by her some chocs, make her a cuppa, let her put her feet up .

ROLFHARRIS!!! Check the heater element aswell!

Good 'un...I'll check it's hot when it finishes next time.

I took the easy option and bought our second one in November last. Saved £'s of ear bashing and phoning and stripping down etc,. Mine was the programme just died.

Had the same problem with my 9yr old one recently.

At your local supermarket look for dishwasher cleaner, it's concentrated citric acid.

It took four bottles / four wash cycles to clear mine but now it's good as new.

No disassembly required.

Heres some help Del some where it said gunk can build up in the pump impellers reducing the flow. May just need to be cleaned out.

http://www.acmehowto.com/howto/appliance/dishwasher/diagnose-dishwasher.php

Cheers,
I've stripped it down as far as I can easilly..I did find a blob of gloop which could have been restricing water flow. The impeller seemed pretty free, I could feel a little free axial play and if I rotated it by hand I could feel it 'cogging' very powerfully...dunno what sort of motor it has, but it had a reassuring feel.

Mrs Cat loaded it less full and it seems to have washed better...it was certainly hot too...so that's ruled out the element element.

I'll leave it now..but next time is plays up it's off the shops (or the interweb) for a new one.

Del

Greetings, Del,

Another thing to consider is whether or not you have recently changed the type or amount of soap being used. Not all soaps are equal. We have found that the powdered types work better than do the solid capsule types, at least in our machine. BTW... did you find any cat hair stuck in the impeller?

Haynes do a Dishwasher manual. Might be worth looking before you have to junk the thing.

Oh! I thought that was a FIAT PANDA .

Cheers...

ROFL !

If this is the same bucket that you use to fill the dishwasher - I think I have found the problem! The tide isn't the only thing that has gone out.

Hi Dell,

Looks like you got it. I'm with Skeeter, next time look for a fur-ball first. Forget the chocolates, get Mrs. cat some cat nip. Mine is always getting the little holes in the spraying arms plugged up so they don't turn, and don't wash everything right. You can't fix it forever, so get her a new one some day. Good luck.

S

Hi Del, We are engineers so we always like to strip down ofcourse machines, it is advanture plus we learn some thing even if we break it to peices. So alway we should do our own surgery and if we feel we cant do it then only buy new one or call mechanic. Better to see manual first for trouble shooting instructions it makes job easier.

Having recently purchased a new dishwasher after using the prior one for 22+ years, I would make a suggestion that when you purchase a new unit be sure to review such items as the total cycle times and total power consumption per cycle; unfortunately, I did not. My new unit works well, but the cycle times are significantly longer (and hence use more energy per washer load) than the prior model. If i run this unit for another 10+ years the total power consumption will cost me significantly more in total.

If you decide to keep the old one, a few tips that I have learnt in 27 years of dishwashers, 7 in all in 4 different houses.....the latest is AEG and only running since easter.

1) Put the plates the opposite way round than you see in the ads, that is the dirty side down. The water jets come from below......many make this mistake! Not too close to each other, some allow a plate in each position, some do not. test.

2) Plumb the machine into the house hot water, hot water from gas or Oil is cheaper than from electricity and even if it comes from electricity, it is warmer quicker, faster. The hot water helps keep the machine internals clean.

3) Use powder only, cheaper and better.

4) Go to a water softener company for the salt, never use salt crystals or powder, only the huge tablets. Cheaper and they last much longer, work just as well and introduce less salt into the environment over the long term. If anyone does not fully understand why, and would like to know why, just ask and I will explain later.

5) Only wash glasses if you have a program for glasses at 45°C or less, otherwise glass may go milky. It also depends on glass quality too.....

6) Take off the larger lumps of food at least before washing.

7) On most machines, you need to make the filter better so that anything the size of a piece of rice or bigger is filtered out of the water and does not circulate through the pump, this means adding extra fine mesh on most machines, even new ones.....some machine filters are so badly designed that they only hold back things the size of building bricks!!!

8) Tune the salt usage down to a minimum if the machine allows.

9) Tune the usage of the liquid that leaves the plates glistening to a minimum. I do not know what you call it in English, the clear liquid.....sorry!!

10) Clean the filter often.

11) Remove the spray arms, go outside, run water though them, clean them out if blocked by food particles, a fiddly job.....I made special tools to help in the process.....if not perfectly clean (see tip about the filter) this will leave food on the plates.

If all else fails, buy a new top AEG, mine is in use since Easter, the best I ever had, good filter and wonderfully and quiet and cleans everything. If you need a model number, just ask.

When I was single I washed and cooked, but since I've been married my wife complains if I wash.

things.

Mrs. Cat may or may not like the old dishwasher.

Have you asked her if she wants a new dishwasher, or not?

Time and money will fix any problem that is mechanical.

Do you have an underlying problem?

If there are only two people eating on plates from pots and pans, I really wonder if a dishwasher is worth it at all, since you typically have to wash the sticky stuff off by hand before you put it in the "Autoclave", ie. "dishwasher" regardless of what brand of home residential dishwasher you might buy.

I am interested in knowing really how many dishes per day actually make a dishwasher helpful to all who have or don't. I suspect that really if you have less than 4 people in the house to cook for, a dishwasher is not really much help.

I may have been lucky, but with all my dishwashers (7) since 1981 I have never had to do what you seem to need to do. All have washed everything really well. But I do place certain crockery a different way round than shown in most illustrations, its simple common sense, and that does improve the overall quality of the job. See my last post for details.

Experience has shown me that pots and pans with a Teflon finish are ruined in a dishwasher in a short time, so they should not be machine washed.

I must admit I do put pots & pans that are not particularly dirty (provided no Teflon) into the machine, but except for removing large lumps of food, the machine does the rest.

My new AEG is really, really fantastic......it could not be better and is an A A A machine, if you know what that means...?

I would understand your standpoint if I had had a bad machine, I have been lucky.

From the Hygiene side, nothing is better than a dish washer (mechanical not human!!).....

By the way, the trick is not how many people are in the household, but how much crockery and pots etc you have. Even if it takes a day or two to fill up, the results are still better than by hand.

Do you know whether anyone's done any studies on energy/water/cleaning product usage for mechanical dishwashers vs the human variety?

I've never had, or really felt the need to have, anything more than a bowl with hot water, some cleaning stuff and a pair of hands.

There's some good advice here, but can I add one thing ? Wash it by hand ya lazy *****rd ! Sorry mate, but of all our mod-cons, dishwashers is one of the worst. I can think of scenarios where a dishwasher might be useful/essential, but not many. It's like gas powered televisions - we all got by without them once. Bin the thing and get some marigolds. "Soz" if there's some reason you have to have a dishwasher (I know a few people who do), but get rid of it if you can. I have hours of fun arguing over who does the washing up best, who wastes most hot water etc etc. If you can, get rid of the bugger and put something useful in it's place - home brew kit, dog-box, bath, there's all sorts of possibilities.

Hygiene is the main reason for having one, everyone has a fully time job, so laziness is the next reason.....

Also I really hate washing up.

I save in many other areas far more than the yearly running costs of Dish Washer.....

Each to his own!!

It takes me 2 paragraphs to get to the truth as well !

That was a lie.

On no, now I'm confused.

Hey Kris. Definitely don't want my dog box in the kitchen.

Me neither - I'd keep putting milk in the dog box, and the dog in the fridge ! At least the cat-dryer is much smaller than all those other kitchen appliances, so mistakes aren't so easily made.

1. Make sure that the water coming out of your tap is as hot as possible before you start the dishwasher. That is usually where the water supply to your dishwasher comes off under the sink.

2. Most dishwashers work best at 120 degrees plus Fahrenheit the best.

3. Make sure that you are not stacking any dishes or pans over the middle of the top and bottom rack because that is where the water comes up from the tower.

4. Make sure that the tower does not does not have any material stuck in it or the top is broken off or missing.

5. Make sure that the arm does not have any material in it and moves freely.

6. Make sure that the bottom rack is not put in backwards.

7. Make sure that the arm is moving freely when operating. It should sound like a rhythmic whosh, whosh, whosh. If it doesn't check to make sure that the arm turns freely and isn't brushing against an obstruction when the door is shut. No don't have your friend climb in.

8. If this all is okay then pull out the dishwasher. Lay it on its back (so water won't usually leak out) and look at the pump. Carefully pull apart the parts on the pump and look for a gasket that is misshapen and not sealing, or a diaphragm that is broken.

9. Hopefully you have checked the line and the airgap before all this.

10. If you find a broken part I use Reliable Parts and Part Links through them. Have credit card will mail.

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone...

I don't need to actually 'Consult' Mrs Cat about much...she offers unsolicited direction to all my endeavours without consultation... (she's pretty often right too).

She insists on cramming the dishwasher overfull with lage objects masking eachother from the jets, and carefully aranges tall items to foul the rinse arms.

Gotta hide quick she's coming

Del

I am married to the German version!!!!

Except I don't hide!!!

My youngest daughter who still lives with us is almost the same.....

Which is why in our house, I load & unload the dishwasher.....

By the way, for those of you folks who like to hand wash, I did see a study made some years ago in a University in the States (I believe) and the costs were different, hand washing is far cheaper, but not better in many ways (most of which I have forgotten!!), damage to hands if rubber gloves are not worn, cleanliness of items and lack of hygiene being three that I remember......the only way hand washing scored was on price, nothing else!!!

I personally find that (we had 2 months without a dishwasher recently till the new kitchen was installed) the cups are far cleaner (porcelain) and more attractive to drink from when washed by a machine......in fact everything is much cleaner and more attractive....pots pans etc....

As an aside, a similar study with regard to hot air hand dryers against paper hand towels showed that the whole/total cost of both were about equal, but that paper towels had one large and attractive plus, you could also use them to open the toilet door!! As many people do not bother to wash their hands if they feel they are not being observed.......!!! The door handle being the carrier of some mighty germs.....!!!

I do say "each to his own" and I am a confirmed user of such machines....

I also like air conditioned cars for the summer or when it us raining (as it keeps the windows from steaming up even in a cold winter!! many do not know this) and I feel it helps to keep us cool (in both senses of the wood!) in bad traffic situations.

I have an air conditioner for our bedrooms when the summer temperatures go above 35°C (my wife does not like high temps, I personally do not worry I used to live in Singapore!!)...the excess cold air cools the downstairs rooms....Ladies are much nicer when cool!!

Now I expect someone will moan about the fact that we have air conditioning!!! (and lots of other labor saving devices like a Vacuum cleaner, bread making machine etc etc etc!!!)

Did the dishwasher vs. handwashing study include energy usage?

From memory it included everything, it showed (as I mentioned clearly before) that cost wise hand washing was still the cheapest method.

It included the cost of the electricity, water, etc etc....

Comfort was NOT included!!! I go for comfort!

I'm not talking €.

The state your case in a better form please, what are you asking about? I will do my best to help you, but I am completely mystified as to what you need to know.

My memory is that the study showed that costs energy, water, time etc., showed that hand washing was the cheapest, but hygiene, due to the temperatures and methods used, sort of fell by the wayside....

Andy, I'm trying to get at how much energy is used by a dishwasher, compared with that used by handwashing. I'm not considering the cost in money. Which uses more hot water, and heated to what temperature? What other energy is used?

I guess the energy required to make the dishwasher has to be factored in, as well as the energy used per wash cycle.

As you can't fail to have noticed, energy expenditure is a rather important topic these days.

The dishwasher uses far more water (even the modern ones) and far more electricity, mainly in heating the water, but also for running motors and electronics....

A lot of hot water, means a lot more electricity...

On energy costs alone, the DW loses out completely.....plus of course it costs more to buy one etc etc and maintain with salt and other chemicals!!!

Thanks - that was my point .

Hi Andy,

I have to question this. When washing by hand, the water gets cold, and then you need to refill. That also takes more soap. My hot water is heated by natural gas which is much cheaper than electricity. I have always thought that the DW saved me money. What's this about salt? I have never heard of using salt in a DW. Do you put it in with the soap? And what other chemicals? Rinse agent is all we use besides soap.

S

I did not do any of the testing, I only read about it some years ago, my memory is certainly not perfect either, but I would guess that they took all points into account.

For me, the cleanliness and the hygiene side are paramount, I do not think that in any westernized country today, that it is allowed to hand wash plates for customers by hand......I would guess that they have legislation, but I haven't checked, so I could be wrong.....

Salt in Dish Washing machines.

All the DWs that I have ever had, have had a water softener built in, this softener needs salt from time to time to regenerate (Ion exchange process) itself. Maybe some DWs do not need this? Look in the bottom of the machine, is there a big cap (2 1/2 " or so at a guess) that you can unscrew? Maybe the cap has salt marked on it? but maybe you live in a soft water area and therefore do not need it?

The US market is very different in some ways (this could be one) and I have never lived long enough in the USA to find out about this point, sorry.

"All the DWs that I have ever had, have had a water softener built in, this softener needs salt from time to time to regenerate (Ion exchange process) itself."

That makes sense. We have soft water here already, so not needed. I had thoughts of you putting it in with the soap to "sand blast" the pots and pans.

....some people like the salty taste......!

Does it have rotating spray arms/bars top and bottom? Check the bushing/seals on the arms for wear. They may be leaking to much and you're not getting enough pressure thru the nozzles. Kept a GE dishwasher going for 10 years. Like you I hate to buy new stuff when you can fix the old stuff. Sometimes you think you've gotten all the crud out of the arms just to have it get back in the nozzles again. Run the dish washer without the spray bars to make sure the piping is clear.

Maybe you'll get another few years out of it..or give it up and spring for a new one!

If you have ever had a glass shatter in the machine it does a wonderful job of removing the vanes from the pump impeller. It just grinds them off.

I have had to replace the impeller several times. Replacement kit comes with a new seal for the impeller also.

Messy job, plastic parts that like to strip screw threads etc.. Used a shop vac to extract that last bit of water.

Sometimes it is easier to bite the bullet and buy a new machine.

You link is not much use as it requires me to join first.......!!

It was a no access...login page

Hi Del. In SA we have a little bottle of fluid you buy called cleaning aid. It has a thin waxy film over the mouth of the bottle that you place upside down in your dish washer. You then set the machine to the heaviest, hottest cycle and do a wash with no dishes in. Cleans the machine right out. Had the machine (LG) for 5 years now and still going strong. We just do it once a month with cleaning aid.