The Price of Petrol

Taganan,

GA from me.

Stu.

Taganan, Another G.A.

Dragon

GA from me too.

A small point, but please remember that lead is not only bad for us and animals, its also bad for the environment generally and it KILLS Catalytic converters immediately!!!

You implied (I feel) that "Cats" were also there to clean up lead in exhausts, - no way!!!

My apologies if that was not what you intended to say.....

I feel) that "Cats" were also there to clean up lead in exhausts

..........is that the musical???????

Andy - making them mandatory on autos was a legal ploy to end leaded gasoline as much as anything else, if you had one you couldn't use leaded gas.

Andy - making them mandatory on autos was a legal ploy to end leaded gasoline as much as anything else, if you had one you couldn't use leaded gas.

This conspiracy theory doesn't correspond with the actual laws passed. Honda was well-known for meeting emission standards after 1975 without resorting to a catalytic converter, when other manufacturers found it necessary to so so. The three-way converter, now used by virtually every manufacturer (including Honda) was developed by Volvo, and was adopted by other manufacturers because it works well, not because it was mandated by the US government.

The emission laws have always been a performance standard, in other words, emissions must meet particular gram-per-mile standards which have become increasingly tight as time has gone on. Very few motorcycles (for which the standards are looser) now have catalytic converters, but by 2010, about half will, the EPA estimates. The EPA does not care how you attain the goal, as is obvious from the current motorcycle situation, which is not unlike the early car days -- some had cats, some did not.

Where did you come up with notion that the converters were required? Fox "news"? Rush Limbo? Some other source with no little to reality?

Ken - No it was not Rush Limbaugh, I seldom even get time to listen to him. I got it from someone on another thread on this site who claimed to be an automotive engineer. [Can't remember who.] Others seemed to agree and it fit with what I remembered my father telling me [he was an ex-mechanic turned precision machinist/engineer]. If I am mistaken it was an honest one as I did not research the laws and regulations which led to the catalytic converter.

Now, now, don't show your politics by bashing Fox News, or deliberately misspelling Rush Limbaugh. Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones, I could mention a few embarrassing news outlets or people on your side of politics, but I won't.

I believe "Andy Germany" is located in Germany. Therefore, it seems unlikely that his mind was corrupted by Rush or Fox News as they are USA based entertainment channels.

Check with Hillery. She is the Authority on the "vast right-wing conspiracy" viewpoint. But take her opinions with a grain of salt as she clearly is a card carrying member of a "vast left-wing conspiracy".

Quite correct.

I have heard the people and programs while on US visits, but I am basically "unaffected" by them.

I am a Conservative, but Rush is too far to the right for me (going on the few times I have heard him.....I may be doing him an injustice, if so I apologize just in case...).

If the others are similar, then thanks but no thanks!!! The far right is just as crazy as the far left in my book!! A happy medium does it better for me personally!!!

In England the far left are the "L.L." = "Loony Left", I have no idea what the extreme right wing is called in the UK or anywhere, but here they would be called Nazis.....we still have enough of them around as the NPD!!! Luckily with little political power...

I believe "Andy Germany" is located in Germany. Therefore, it seems unlikely that his mind was corrupted by Rush or Fox News as they are USA based entertainment channels.

I agree. Andy is correct in saying that catalytic converters are not designed to eliminate lead, and Tanagan's theory that catalytic converters were required by law is simply wrong. Low emissions are required by law, and catalytic converters are one way to achieve those low emissions. Now, there are still some labs working on ways to achieve low emissions without a catalytic converter, but doing so is anything but easy.

Check with Hillery. She is the Authority...

True. She's also a great actress, able to make the tears flow right on cue.

She can do a few things that bring tears to ones eyes! Unfortunatly for her, not on cue this time!

A quick story about PETA - when I was going to college in South Dakota PETA tried to come in and convert followers. We in the agricultural dept. put up signs for a PETA party where it meant People Eating Tasty Animals. We had hamburgers and pork chops and chicken. When the 'other' group came they were laughed off and didn't come back. It was quite humorous at the time.

Not don't get me wrong - my dad brought me up where our livestock on the farm came first. When they were fed and taken care of then we could come and eat.

Over here in Geelong, Victoria, Australia the petrol price is 1.35 $/l, making it (1.35$/l * 3.785 l/USG) ~5.11 $/USG. The AUS to USD exchange rate is close to 1:1 at the moment, so it looks to us Aussies like your fuel is still pretty cheap.

Here Chief,

When did you last fill up with petrol.............it's cheap in Adelaide $1.58/ litre........it was $1.68/ litre last week............it goes up on Wednesdays.

Don't tell me because you have refinery in Geelong, you have cheap petrol??????

Surely not!!!!!!

20.5.08

Out here in India, a litre of Unbranded petrol, (with subsidies from the govt reportedly in the region of 25%), costs between Rs 48 to Rs 52 depending on where your are. Skilled construction workers make around Rs 200 per day in the metros for you to get a more balanced picture!1 USD=approx Rs 41, we dont know what a gallon is.

One can buy demat gold now. If there is a scheme for demat petrol, I will queue up to subscribe!

Our average cars are 800cc to 1000cc and most 2 wheelers 100 to 125cc. Guess that makes us a pretty responsible nation.

Also all our Public transport, like Taxis, buses and the three wheelers are mandated, by law to use Compressed Natural Gas (CNG) for fuel, being foremost in support of reduced polution

Bravo, India to be the leader on this front.

vshwn7@aol.com

A lot more countries could follow this good lead......but don't!!

And all our taxis, buses and the three wheelers use CNG (compressed Natural Gas) as fuel which has a much smaller impact on the environment. Why don't we in the US do the same by converting our automobiles to run on CNG? I believe Trinidad in the West Indies has a project that converts NaturaL Gas into CNG in a very big way. It seems we, supposed to be the best in technology lag far behind other nations in the World to adapt to emerging technologies. Why? Is it again the "Special Intersts" that rule our country?

vshwn7@aol.com

India:

Public sector company pricing:

diesel ~$1 / Litre

gasoline ~$1.25 / Litre

Private companies 10% more

as on date

subhu

Here is another example of the USA not in step with most of the world.

The US gallon = 3,785 litres imperial gallon = 4,546 litres..................not that any(many) countries use gallons anymore................it would not be surprising if (or when) the USA changes to ISO standards..........they will have to be different???????

Why be the same..........it would make things far too easy.

Oh! By the way in Australia the price of petrol will vary between states and between capital cities and country areas in the various states. In South Australia, around Adelaide, the price varies daily from between AUS$ 1,40 to AUS$1,52/litre for standard unleaded petrol. Automotive distillate (Grade A diesel fuel) is about 10 cents/litre dearer. However all newer cars run on 95 RON or better and of course range from a about 5 cents to 12 cents dearer/litre, dependent on the grade, than standard unleaded petrol. (At this point in time US$1 = AUS$0,94)

Well, we bloody selfish "Amurricans" tried to go metric at one time [probably an idea of that crazed LIBERAL Jimmy Carter when he was president]--we even had "bilingual" signs [mi/km] and gas pumps that measured in liters, which went over like the proverbial lead ballon. No, we want our gasoline [not petrol, mate!] in gallons and our vodka in fifths...whatever THOSE are.

It was not because of any pride or selfishness that we returned to the US gallon from Liters, it was mostly because the average American did not understand what a liter is, (I have seen this even in the educated community), and also because the gas pump operators took advantage of this ignorance of the consumers, they tried to cheat them about the litre as people could not work out the relation between a liter and the gallon

vshwn7@aol.com

I taught high school at that time and there were about 60 teachers who had to take a test on using metrics or they had to take a 4 week course after school 2 days a week. One chemistry teacher, one music teacher and the art teacher passed it and didn't have to take the course. The other teachers were so angry because we got to leave and they had to stay another hour.

Give the average student here a metric ruler and they are suddenly unable to measure anything, The very word "centimeter" turns their brains off and they are unable to think.

It is easy until you talk to a math teacher who spouts formulas. A liter is one quart + one tablespoon. A gallon is about 1/2 cup short of 4 liters. Exact conversion is seldom needed and you either use one system or the other.

Oil production must go up to reduce prices. Taxes do little except take peoples money without doing much to cut demand and that just enriches the government so it can buy votes for the politicians who increased the tax. A windfall profits tax will drive prices up as oil companies try to maintain the same margin of profit and it will also enrich the government so the politicians can buy more votes with special give-away programs.

Schools should have the PE department teach the metric system:

• Take a real long step = 1 meter
• Look at the last joint on your pinkie = 1 cm
  
• Hold your thumb and forefinger as close together as you can without touching = 1 mm

That's about enough metric system (close enough)- the homework for summer vacation:

• Go outside on a really hot day. The temperature = 40˚ C
• Buy and drink Thirsty-Two Ouncer (with extra ice) = 1 liter = 1 kilogram = (temp = 3˚ C)

Combining something that most people hate (math) with something that most Americans find confusing (metric system) doesn't seem like a real winning strategy. It's like it was designed to fail. Still I think that some people might be embarrassed to learn that the only other countries in the world who haven't 'gone metic' are Liberia and Myanmar. No doubt we're still Number One, even if we ride on the little bus.

"Look at the last joint on your pinkie = 1 cm"

Mine's nearer 2cm, now I feel deformed!!!

Thank God there are at least two of us with relatively Big Hands!! I now feel quite at home!!!

Does that make us special?

Of course. I am surprised that you had to even ask!!!

That must make me really special cos my last joint is just under 3cm and I'm only 5ft 9! ( I know, I know! Mixing my units! But some things are best in feet and inches!)

I'm getting confused now, 1st time round I measured the width of the joint (1.85cm - I'm using the vernier now) but if I measure joint to fingertip it's 2.7cm.

You all must be giddy with the Saudi's saying they will pump an extra 200,000 barrels per day. What is the feeling out there on how much this will reduce prices if any?? My guess it will up to .50 cents per gallon (but only for a few months at best).

Gentlemen of CR4,

do you not think that our beloved Mr Truman Brain is a little "undernourished" with a 3 cm last joint!

(BTW is that with or without sexual arousal, you forgot to mention.....?)

As long as it's bigger than the standard 1cm, I don't mind! You want to see it when it's fully aroused! Actually, you probably don't!

An old toolmaker colleague of mine had hands almost twice the size of mine and mine are big!

Any advance on 3cm?

Hello!

well I can say that in Portugal the prices rise 20 times since the beginning of the year! Today, once again, the price rises again to 1,479 euro/liter for regular and 1,369 euro/liter for diesel. To understand better the impact of these prices I must tell you the minimum salary is around 400 Euros and a lot of people earn that!

2 days ago I paid €1.49 for a liter of Diesel. Normal petrol was €1.47. Thats for the middle of Germany near to Frankfurt a.Main.

We are about the middle of the pricing within Germany as well, oil products are the cheapest in the north and most expensive in the south.....

I bought 250 litres of diesel yesterday and paid Aud403.oo

Stu.

Hi Stuey,

How much of that goes to the government in excise and GST................it does bear not to think about it!!!!

I wonder why the Feds are so well off these days???????????

Mobi, Yes, and the bastards, of whatever political colour have realised that it's the greatest milking cow ever invented. Of course, I'm not telling you anything you don't already know.

How many times has the populace called for a little fuel tax relief, to be emphatically denied.

Rudd said this week that he wasn't going to do it either.

I don't at this exact minute know how much of the retail price is tax, but I have been told by others that it is near 50%. When one considers the various indirect taxes it could even be more.

If I get a few more minutes I will try to find out the exact figures.

I have a mate who makes his own bio-diesel and it currently runs 26c/litre. However, there is a move to outlaw this activity too, under the Dangerous Goods Act. It's to do with the Methanol with which he cuts the vegetable oil. Apparently the storage of any amount of veg oil is lawful. Methanol, and Customs is the problem.

Won't be allowed to pass wind in public soon.

Cheers,

Stu.

Never a truer word was spoken my friend.

It's the double tax that hurts.............as you said mate they are all the same.........why aren't politicians treated the the same as normal workers.........talk about feathering ones own nest. I certainly wouldn't feed half ..........no sorry, my mistake...........make that all of them.

However, there is a move to outlaw this activity too, under the Dangerous Goods Act. It's to do with the Methanol

That will probably be the case, but.............the druggies have caused a few of the problems with their would be labs blowing up.

Show me a politician who likes taxes and spending and I'll show you a socialist. They may say they are in this party or that party, but they keep taking money from your pocket to benefit someone else to buy their vote.

Are the fuel taxes kept in a separate account which is only used for highways or does it go into the general budget and get spent on public transportation, bridges to nowhere, 4 lane highways between two villages and such nonsense, while the roads are unpaved or are full of potholes? If the latter, you know you have pocket-pickers in government. Vote the idiots out!

Do the politicians tiptoe around the environmentalists, doing just what they want and ignoring what the majority of people want? Vote the bums out!

You want tax relief, yet you vote for someone who won't do it, because he is the lesser of two evils and you let the Leftist media convince you that the good guys are really the bad guys, instead of thinking for yourself. [This may not apply to you personally Stueywright, but it does to too many people.]

We expected that after Iraq war is over , there will be good supply of crude oil from Iraq and Opec will reduce the price per barrel. It turned out other way thanks to Mr.Bush.Now he is blaming China and India for sucking away lot of oil.

Suresh Sharma.

Why not blame ourselves for electing GW twice over?

I am also wondering if we will now elect another Republican to continue GW's third term!!!!

vshwn7@aol.com

I do not believe the "we" expect oil to flow more consistently from the war. Who is we?

For Whom the Bells Tolls, it tolls for thee.

Ernest Hemingway

I am in the belfry...gonging for more drilling and refining...for the innocent, cold, and hungry children's faces and not so much worrying about some oily penguins when an accident occurs. Further- we need to plan for decreased distribution costs by getting refineries everywhere.

The world has done without much Iraqi oil since the limits were placed on Saddam and even less for about 6 years. Now that some is getting back on the market oil prices go up? Blaming Bush and the war in Iraq for oil prices going up is false "reasoning", part of the "hate Bush" agenda.

They say that it is the shortage in supply caused by the war that has caused prices to rise, then say that increasing our own production of oil will not help and that we shouldn't even try because it might take years to bring prices down. Then they imply that only Iraqi oil will bring prices down. Nuts!

Oil prices are up because of low supply and high demand, too little refining capacity, limits on US oil production [mainly due to crazy environmentalists and toadying politicians], speculation driving prices up and a dollar that is worth less than it used to be so it takes more of them to buy the same amount.

I think his "we" is rhetorical for an [unspecified] group of anti-Bush and anti-war people, but thinking, wrongly, to apply that to the general population.

I read an article about Japan being hot about China's oil consumption. China is also an oil producing country but they don't produce enough to keep up with the demand in their country so they are buying it from the middle east.

This has become a problem because China's need has only in the last few years started increasing their demand.

One point not mentioned relative to the cost of oil/gas:

Demand from China has increased about 15% in the last year, with higher increases in store. India is not far behind from what I've read. And, I would bet my amateur economist boots that producers always want to sell to the highest bidder.

If you don't believe that customer competition counts, that's fine, but it really is a factor in supply and demand of any commodity.

Also, the US federal excise tax on gas is a fixed amount per gallon but here in Virginia the state gets a percentage of the sale price. The state is making out like a bandit as gas prices rise but still cry poor and want to raise the tax percentage even more.

.......and the a rabs just laugh all the way to the bank.

I would certainly agree on your comments on China and India.

Hooker,

You have some good points there. Some, on this site, have talked about emotion moving markets. But isn't the job of the Wall Street Investors is to look out in to the future and guess what is going to move prices. If a hurricane is in the gulf of Mexico then there is a chance that oil rigs will be damaged and they speculate price increases. Is that really emotions?

With China's increase in oil demand this year - how much is due to the Olympics? If they continue to use more oil this will change the world.

Your point on road taxes are right on. The politicians are playing games with us. Like the "Farm Bill" that is in the news. The farm Bill is actually 80% welfare program. They use the name to hide all the money they dole out to get votes. In MN they use road tax money for all kinds of other projects. Their are a lot of shell games going on.

"isn't the job of the Wall Street Investors is to look out in to the future and guess what is going to move prices?"

In an idealized high school economics text book kind of way that is their job, but it turns out that the law of supply and demand works for investments, the same way it works for products. Right now there is a glut of money pouring into the commodity and energy markets, probably because real estate and stocks don't offer much in the way of return right now.

Of course there are many factors driving up energy costs right now, but this is clearly on of them. There are too many people with too many dollars all chasing after the same investment opportunity, all responding to the the same bits of news bouncing around in the Wall Street echo chamber.

So lets summarize... What exactly moves the price of gasoline higher (focusing on the USA)? Demand- particularly increased demand in China and India. Dwindling supply (at least of the easy oil) Supply interruptions (say a refinery fire or hurricane in the gulf) Speculation (be it emotional or rational) Inflation and devaluation (the price of a real commodity like oil goes up as the value of the US dollar goes down). Taxes (but not so much in the US as in Europe) And..... The evil oil companies are out to screw every American possible.... (balderdash!) I work for an evil oil company, and me and my colleagues are busting our a$$es in an effort to supply the energy needs of this country and the world. And we put gasoline in our tanks just like anyone else. Every time I hear about the evil oil companies screwing every body I take it as a personal insult. Who are you people talking about? You are talking about me and my co-workers that's who. Oh and by the way who owns say Exxon Mobil? Thousand of hard working Americans who invested their 401K accounts in XOM that's who. Fidelity and Merril Lynch and others like them own Exxon by investing your money. You are talking about many thousands of hard working Americans who each day do their damndest to make sure you have gasoline. Every time you drive your car, every time you flip on a light switch, or turn on the heating or air conditioning, every time you buy anything that has plastic in it, you have an oil company to thank. This is the USA you don't want to pay for oil, that is fine. Feel free to get a bio diesel car, run your heat on solar, and make your electricity from the wind, grow cotton to make your clothes. Reducing demand, reduces the price in an economy like ours, so go do that and I will enjoy lower prices. But cut out the whining about how the evil oil companies have some kind of conspiracy to screw America that is utter rubbish and I for one and sick of hearing it. Having vented I will now go back to making more oil come out of the ground....

Why are you complaining about the price of a gallon of gasoline while you are sipping on your "filtered" bottled water? Want to know what the price of a gallon of bottled water is?

In Rochester Ny we are at about $3.80 a gallon for regular. I imagine it's going to go up. Motorcycles are the only way to go given the present state of technology and a 50 mile commute. I know, 50 miles ain't nothing by Californication standards, but that's your problem not mine!

It's not the same paying $3 for a quart of water once or twice a day as seeing $50 to into your gas tank in one shot.

There is also the an issue with bankruptcies of truckers who are going out of business because of the price of fuel and that will drive up the cost for shipping through the trucking industry.

We are paying a high price so that the oil companies can enjoy record breaking profits at our expense.

oil companies can enjoy record breaking profits at our expense.

Would they do that..................too damn decent(sic)

are they supposed to enjoy them at their own expense?

Ecomomics 101 teaches that as the cost increases, so must the margin...to keep from losing ground. This is why politicians of the democrat ilk sputter on about taxing "excess" (evil) profit, but don't, so long as the people hating business people (republikans) hold a power balance, get around to doing it.

If you made 10% interest on a $2000 bond and 10% interest on a $4000 bond you would see that as fair. You would think it right to make twice as much on the $4000 bond.

"We are paying a high price so that the oil companies can enjoy record breaking profits at our expense."

Yet if an oil company makes 10% profit on $2 per gallon gas and 10% per gallon on $4 per gallon gas you can see only that they are making more $ and suddenly what is fair for you is unfair for the oil company. They are still only taking 10%, but because the dollar amount has doubled you get all upset and think it is at everyone's expense. You never take into account the increased costs to the oil company for raw materials, wages, transportation and taxes, you simply think if they are making twice as many dollars they are greedy and gouging.

I'd bet you are a Democrat too.

Of course I know that this is a simplistic explanation, but I don't have the time to copy and paste from research, or to write a dissertation with footnotes

I live near Bakersfield, CA.

There are Oil Fields there.

Normally the wells are still with only a couple pumping.

Today they are all pumping.

They are taking advantage of the high prices that have been generated by the mid-eastern oil.

UAE is in the process of building the largest skyscraper in the world. That is where our money is going.

And NO. I am a Republican but I am not a fan of Bush.

I am a Republican but I am not a fan of Bush

Bush isn't really a Republican and nobody likes him. Not even me.

President Bush is not really the problem. In order for Bush to be the problem he would have to be in charge. Richard Cheney is the problem, he and his business partners, the ones making this "war" drag on.

I put the word "war" in quotations because it ceased to be a war when the Iraqi army and government surrendered.

If "You" wish to make a change, (the word "You" is used generically, not specifically you Eriew) ignore standard politics and vote for some one other than the accepted party hacks, i.e. Obama, McCain et al. I personally am still voting for Dr. Ron Paul.

Hit them where it hurts: the voting booth. Before they take that away too.

Cordially Dragon

Like it!

I have never heard anyone, especially the Presidential Candidates, state our energy goals any better than "Joe American". Probably the best 9 minutes you will spend on the net .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPch2k63uj4

Russ, Good Answer. It is far easier to blame, than to actually get off your a** and do something. ("Your" is generic, not specific.) That is why President Bush is taking heat. However, he did ask for the job where the buck stops.

Regards Dragon

GA from me.

"Bush isn't really a Republican ..."

I second that notion. While I don't actively like or dislike him, he still has done more that I agree with than I disagree with. If I had to pick a label for myself it would be Progressive Conservative.

The notion that oil companies are making illegitimate profits just because the number of dollars of profit has increased is still a markedly Democratic notion and a completely wrong-headed view. As long as the percent of profit stays the same there is no windfall or immoral gouging.

The European governments are doing nothing for their "extra Bite", due to the price rises.

Here we have Mineral oil tax and VAT on the whole ( also a tax on the tax!!) as it is a fixed percentage, they sit there and get more and more.....thats simply immoral.

Hmmmm. Most internal combustion engines don't run on filtered bottled water, though, well not for very long, that is.....

Hey all you guys..

Stop complaining about Petrol (Gas) & Diesel price...please have a look at our situation!

We pay here Approx US$1.18 per litre= US$ 4.45 per US gallon =US$ 5.29. We do not have any fuel resources and our Gross per Capita Income is around US$ 1300-1400.

Stupid aren't we ?

Aren't most of you guys lucky?

By the way I may appear as Guest but I am regular user SISIRA from Sri Lanka. (I am lazy to burn calories to go up and use my computer and instead using my son's comp!)

Steve:

Was Brunei intended as an example of the opposite case (i.e., relatively cheap fuel) ?

When I crunch the numbers, 0.15 Euro per litre would be $ 0.23 / litre or about $ 0.87 per gallon, about 25% of what you qouted unleaded fuel prices at in Houston, which is pretty consistant with what it is here in Indianapolis.

I'll take the $ 0.87 per gallon please.

Here in Cali, it's running from $3.80 to $4.10 for regular unleaded.

Oil Companies are boasted record profits, so much so that Congress has questioned them for justification of the high prices and the bragging about great profits.

United States only imports gas so we can stock pile our own production.

The United States is also a major oil producer by itself, unlike New Zealand and Japan and England that have to import all of their fuel. That is why those countries are so much higher then the United States.

However in much of the world, many countries have a much better public transportation system then most of the United States. Americans have to spend more time commuting and that is a major cost driver for the expense of gas.

The price of a barrel of gas is so high from the over consumption of China. China is the second largest oil consumer in the World. China is doing nothing to encourage conservation of oil. You want to blame the high cost of oil on someone, blame it on China. Maybe the world will put some pressure on them to start conserving.

Your comment "United States only imports gas so we can stock pile our own production" may not be true. I have heard that Texas is using more gasoline for transportation than what Texas produces. And if you look at the vehicles they drive they are mostly pickups and SUV which get terrible mileage. Our spread out population will require much smaller efficient cars or mass transit. What fun that will be with the Democrats wanting to buy votes from the poor.

In 1973 when we experienced the first gas crunch that drove prices from 36 cents a gallon to a whopping 50 cents a gallon, the United States was only importing 2% of our Oil. The only reason we were importing was so the Oil Companies can that we are importing and need to increase the prices.

Trucks were redirected from their routes to dump there gas in the desert to prevent it from reaching the pumps to help drive the scare.

How do I know this, because I have a friend who used to be an accountant for Exxon.

It is all a game.

So how does the Oil companies justify huge profits and still see a need to charge us high gas prices.