Previous in Forum: Low forward power....   Next in Forum: Max Fault Current in a netwok
Close
Close
Close
Page 2 of 2: « First < Prev 1 2 Last »
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 5356
Good Answers: 49

Real stupid electrical question...

06/21/2008 2:29 AM

OK. Please take a look at the drawing. It represents a room that has two independent 110 Volt, 30 Amp sockets. Regardless of what the load is (motor, toaster,...), would this configuration deliver 110 Volts and 60 Amps to the load or would it electrocute everyone in the neighborhood and set the house on fire?

__________________
"Perplexity is the beginning of dementia" - Professor Coriolus
Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 5356
Good Answers: 49
#43
In reply to #42
Find in discussion

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

06/22/2008 4:40 AM

So can I date her now?!

__________________
"Perplexity is the beginning of dementia" - Professor Coriolus
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Budapest, Hungary, HA5YAR
Posts: 617
Good Answers: 14
#44
In reply to #43

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

06/22/2008 8:37 AM

Maybe... But she says the key problem is the load balance between the two plugs...

__________________
Aged man is not old man...
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: outside Cincinnati
Posts: 115
Good Answers: 5
#47
In reply to #39
Find in discussion

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

06/22/2008 11:22 AM

In this case if both circuits are from the same buss in the panel the voltage would be 110 volts with a 60 amp current available. If the outlets are from different busses in the panel then you would have 220v across the two hot legs and still only 110v from the hot to the neutral. You cannot get 3 phase in most N.A. residential areas. You would have to have existing 3 phase in the area.

I wanted 3 phase in garage and was told that I would have to have a line brought in from 2 miles away. I bought a 220v inverter that makes 3 phase from single phase check this out http://www.phaseconverter.com

Good luck on keeping the lights on while playing with your toys.

__________________
Anything can be made, sometimes at great expense, resulting in greater satisfaction, :)
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 5356
Good Answers: 49
#57
In reply to #47

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

06/23/2008 12:03 AM

Hey RicinCinci!!!

Thanks!!! That would work great! I did not know they existed! Also, price isn't too bad either!

Much Appreciated,

vermin-

__________________
"Perplexity is the beginning of dementia" - Professor Coriolus
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 749
Good Answers: 12
#77
In reply to #57

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

06/24/2008 8:23 PM

So Vermin, this is about that laser we all talked about before.

If so it appears you need a 30 amp 220 volt (I don't think I have ever come across a 110 volt 3 phase device simply because of the generators creating the phases and the systems they service) 3 phase supply.

You can indeed go rotary. I think we talked about that before. But a rotary would require something like 90 amps single phase.

You could do it. The circuit could and would have to be wired, with the proper breakers, to your main panel.

Nonetheless, I figure a rotary machine of that size would require something like ninety amps and be very expensive.

Why not, if you have it, put up the circuit for that laser, at least the power supply, and let somebody here redesign it to run off 220 v.a.c. single phase. That should not be too complex a problem although it will represent a load approaching the limits of your residential wiring system.

Your pretensions aside I don't think you are stupid as some folks here seem to presume. Nonetheless, that is a very powerful laser you propose to play with. Are you fully aware of all the safety requirements and do you have the necessary safety apparatus for working with a laser of that magnitude. I would hate to see a bouncing Vermin with his eyes burned out.

Seems like fun. Wish I had one. What did you pay for that thing and where did you get it?

j.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 5356
Good Answers: 49
#81
In reply to #77

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

06/25/2008 12:42 AM

Here's the weird thing... They have power supplies for running xenon arc lamps that can run on, like, 6000 Watts - which we can see is available from 110V, but for some reason, the damn equipment was designed for 220V 3-phase!!!

And yes I do know about laser safety. But these weird power requirements really piss-me-off!!!

__________________
"Perplexity is the beginning of dementia" - Professor Coriolus
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 749
Good Answers: 12
#82
In reply to #81

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

06/25/2008 1:25 AM

Vermin,

On rereading your posts I notice you need the three phase for one or more arc lamps which I assume provide the initial illumination for the laser.

From what I know those lamps are single phase devices with a single anode and cathode and a high voltage trigger to ignite the arc in the xenon atmosphere inside the lamp so it is unclear why they need three phase for the system unless they are running more than one lamp.

Again! Put the diagram up and let us have a look. Alternatively give us the manufacturer, model and serial numbers so we can look it up and see just what sort of beast you have aholt of. The problem may not be as difficult as it first seemed especially if all the controller does is alternatively switch the phases going to one, or more than one, lamp or more than one anode/cathode pair in the same envelope if that is possible.

j.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 5356
Good Answers: 49
#83
In reply to #82

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

06/25/2008 1:43 AM

That's not what these arc lamp power supplies do. They convert the 220V, 3-phase to High Wattage DC power. So basically, they're trying to deliver about 1000 Watts of DC to these arc lamps. Usually a single lamp

__________________
"Perplexity is the beginning of dementia" - Professor Coriolus
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 749
Good Answers: 12
#84
In reply to #83

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

06/25/2008 4:02 AM

Vermin,

If all you are trying to do is deliver 1000 watts at 220 volts d.c. to the lamp you have no problem.

In essence you are telling me there is a three phase bridge diode converting 3 phase 220 v.a.c. to d.c. for a 1000 watt xenon arc lamp.

You can get, if that is all that is involved, 1000 watts at any d.c. voltage any number of ways without resorting to three phase.

Why are you being coy. Give us the data on your laser or a diagram and we will be able to solve your problem. Is there such or is it a one off device somebody cobbled together without plans in their basement or garage?

If all you need is a 1kw d.c. power source for a xenon lamp at any voltage there are any number here who can solve this one. I begin to think you prefer this kind of exchange to actually having that laser system up and running to play with.

j.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 5356
Good Answers: 49
#92
In reply to #84

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

06/26/2008 1:16 AM

Let's start with the power supply first... Here's one on eBay that's a good example.

__________________
"Perplexity is the beginning of dementia" - Professor Coriolus
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 749
Good Answers: 12
#107
In reply to #92

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/01/2008 4:22 PM

Vermin,

I just looked at the E-bay specs.

Apparently there is some confusion here.

You have been talking about powering a laser with an gas arc lamp supply. but the two, arc lamp and laser are in fact different.

As to the arc lamp there is no question such can be run off single phase. An arc lamp, in this case a gas filled tube like the projector carbon rod arcs I have run in the past on Simplex 35mm projectors, is a simple, single phase load, although usually a heavy one.

As you can see in the pictures the connections to the arc constitute a single phase circuit, judging from the wire size visible a very heavy one, since there are only two wires as I would expect of any arc, gas tube or open carbon rod arc.

In the case of the arc they are supplying the single phase arc current from a three phase power supply in order to avoid loading a single phase service when a three phase service is available. I did note they said the supply could be run single phase but with reduced power available.

If you are running a laser instead of an arc, I do assume you know the difference, I would suggest that we consider the laser separate from its power supply. It is, by the way, not clear that you understand what you are looking at. (No offense meant, indeed without seeing the circuits for your laser I am not sure what we are looking at.)

Your request suggests that your laser, like the arc lamp, is separate from whatever power supply it requires. My bet would be that a laser, although vastly more complicated than a very simple arc lamp, when considered separately from its power source also requires a single phase power source.

Because the arc tube is a circuit wherein the lamp current conductor is just gas, such a power supply also provides a very high trigger voltage to ionize the gas wherein it then stays lit on the lower supply voltage, albeit at very high currents.

If you can tell me, or supply data, i.e., manufacturer or circuit drawings or even ID plate information, if it is not simply some bodies home built rig, I am confident I can tell you how to go about getting just what you need to fire it up.

After all, the modern residential power service is quite substantial, across the two hot legs, if a 200 amp service, and constitutes a source for as much as 44,000 watts, 40.4kw single phase.

j.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 5356
Good Answers: 49
#108
In reply to #107

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/02/2008 1:56 AM

Hey Jack,

OK. I think we're getting crossed wires here, so let me backup a little...

The type of laser I'm working on is somewhat like a YAG laser. Long solid rod of crystal/glass and is pumped optically by a flash lamp for pulses or an arc lamp for Continuous Wave (CW) duty. I have a pulse supply that puts out 2000 joules, so I'm OK there. Now I want to try a CW arrangement.

Surprisingly enough, these long, slender arc lamps take a ton of power. The lamp first gets a high voltage shot, then the voltage is reduced (you know this). Of course, the lamp is fed DC. However, it's not uncommon to find these arc lamp supplies requiring 220 AC, 3-phase for there source power.

Here's one that I own that runs on 110V/220V single-phase:

This guy puts out 500 Watts DC (and weighs about 70 lbs). Surprisingly, that's only enough power to run "short arc lamps," like the lamp pictured below.

These are way too small for what I'm doing. Power for the long arc lamps start at about 1600 Watts (minimum) and go up from there.

I'm pretty sure I could get the "mains" power out of 220V single-phase, but unfortunately, the higher power arc lamp supplies seem to always want 3-phase!!! Not sure why, perhaps to provide headroom so that the power supply is not as close to the fuse-blowing point?

Anyway, that's why I'm fishing around for ways to get 220V, 3-phase.

Does this make more sense?

vermin-

__________________
"Perplexity is the beginning of dementia" - Professor Coriolus
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 749
Good Answers: 12
#109
In reply to #108

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/02/2008 9:10 AM

Vermin,

1600 watts is not an awful lot of power. The average little floor room 1600 watt heater runs on 110v.a.c. and pulls about 15 amps.

But your problem is to get that much, or more, power at whatever voltage and amperage one of those lamps requires inclusive of the circuitry for the trigger pulse.

The simple approach would be, and this is why that "guy" you have weighs so much, is to simply open one of those units up and replace the three phase transformer with a single phase transformer supplying the requisite secondary A.C. voltage to the rectifiers producing the D.C. for the lamp and the pulse circuitry.

If you go to this site

http://www.reuk.co.uk/Make-A-Bridge-Rectifier-From-Diodes.htm

you get an excellent dissertation on bridge rectifiers, both single and three phase, and even better, diagrams.

If you open up one of those arc power supplies you are likely to find a circuit like the one on page two.

The three phase source, instead of a wind turbine is going to be the secondary windings of a three phase transformer. You would disconnect all three secondary transformer leads from the rectifier. You would also disconnect the three phase input leads and yank the transformer out to be replaced by a single phase transformer with a secondary supplying the voltage and amperage capacity required by the lamps.

Since you are going to run that thing off your house circuits the primary of that transformer is going to be 220v.a.c. so as to balance the load across your house service.

Since you have not yet given me the specific operating voltages of that lamp, nor its current requirements, I can't specify, from on-line catalogs, just what transformer to get.

But, carrying on with our dissection and reconstruction of a power supply, having disconnected the old transformer you would also then disconnect the number 2 wire connecting to the front end of that bridge. That wire is going to go to one terminal on the new transformer. The other transformer secondary lead is going to go to the rectifier center input lead from where you have just disconnected the number 2 load wire.

Now, instead of a three phase bridge you have wired a single phase rectifier with the rectifiers wired in a series parallel configuration. Because of the parallel configuration of the rectifiers they ought to be able to handle the arc load you are going to subject them too.

We are also now putting the entire three phase load on fewer incoming cable conductors. It may be necessary to increase the wire sizes commensurate with that load.

The pulse circuit wiring is likely to be wired to one leg of the three phase input and will probably be o.k. if that leg ends up connected to the hot leg of the single phase input and the other to an incoming neutral from the house supply.

But there again not having circuits in front of me leaves questions.

My bet would be that the cable carrying the three phase input to those power supplies is 4 wire, or possibly five encompassing a safety ground, which means one of those legs is a neutral. If the pulse circuit just requires 110 v.a.c. one side of it needs to connect to that neutral. If 220 v.a.c. it needs to connect across the incoming 220 v.a.c.

As far as safety and protecting the house circuits. Depending on load you may be able to plug the revised supply into a 220 v.a.c. dryer circuit or electric oven circuit. Nonetheless, wherever connected, it need to be a circuit connected to an appropriate, load wise, circuit breaker. You may have to add such a circuit directly to the panel.

Again, no biggie if you can open a panel and know, understand, what you are looking at and work on it and not get knocked on your ass.

One other point as to safety. Because the pulse supply has to serve to ionize the gas between the ends of the tube the voltage is likely to be high, in the neighborhood of 5000 volts and capable of pretty high currents.

There is likely also too be in that circuit a pretty big capacitor which if not safely discharged can deliver a very dangerous shock, perhaps even a killing shock.

If you are not used to working with this sort of stuff you best not mess with the innards of such a supply.

If there is a Cleveland Electric motor shop in your vicinity, or an equivalent, they could make the changes I have outlined. They will of course be pricey but you will be safe.

Nonetheless, this is all theoretical based on my conjecture as to what the power supply configuration is likely to be.

It is also based on the need to retain the pulse circuitry the power supplies include. Otherwise, given voltage and amperage requirements I would simply pick a transformer, rectifiers, ripple smoothing if need be, and wire up, on paper at least, a completely new lamp supply. Ain't nothing complicated about that.

One thought just struck me. Have you checked theatrical lighting suppliers for a single phase power supply. In movie theatres this sort of arc lamp has replaced the old carbon arc.

And stop confusing folks with the laser. Your problem is strictly one of igniting and running a gas tube arc lamp, no matter the use you put the lamplight output to.

At any rate without diagram and actual lamp ratings (Ought to be, or a lamp number, on the porcelain lamp end itself) I don't see how else to help you. The problem is not difficult, lack of information is.

j.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 5356
Good Answers: 49
#110
In reply to #109

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/03/2008 1:34 AM

The starter is not complicated. It's a separate, external box that the lines from the arc power supply go through to reach the lamp. Once fired, the starter box takes itself out of the circuit.

OK. So I've had my arc supply open, and it's very complex in there! I think major power regulation is going on inside. Also, it contains a very large and complicated transformer (coil?) that has about 15 or 20 taps coming off of it, consisting of wires of various gauge. There's even a two inch ribbon cable that connects circuit boards together.

Also, as I said earlier, my arc supply puts out 500 Watts of DC from an input of 110V, 1-phase AC. So why do the arc supplies that put out, say, 1600 to 3000 Watts use 220V, 3-phase AC if they could achieve the same DC power from 110V, 1-phase? Why do they seem to insist on using the higher input power?

__________________
"Perplexity is the beginning of dementia" - Professor Coriolus
Register to Reply
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#111
In reply to #110

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/03/2008 6:14 AM

Perhaps because (according to one member's tag line) nothing exceeds like excess?

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
2
Guru
Canada - Member - If there is a way to screw someting up, there is someone to do so! Safety - Hazmat - New Member

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Iqaluit, NU. Canada
Posts: 1852
Good Answers: 140
#112
In reply to #110

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/03/2008 8:35 AM

It has a lot to do with the quality of the derived DC source. With a single phase source, the voltage level hits 0 volt twice per cycle. So to provide a steady state DC voltage, with no sags in voltage to the load (ripple voltage), you need a large capacitor bank that discharges to keep the voltage level up.

With a three phase source, you never hit zero volts because when one phase does hit zero, the other two are at some other voltage level. This makes filtering the derived DC much easier and cheaper.

__________________
Joe Contractor to Electrical Inspector, "What do you mean you are going to make me follow the code?".
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 749
Good Answers: 12
#113
In reply to #110

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/04/2008 11:57 PM

Vermin, it doesn't matter what their reasons are; at least not in terms of converting one of those boxes.

If you want to be helped you need to provide some additional information, at least make and model of one of the supplies that are three phase.

The transformer you were looking at appears, from your description, to be a multi-tap transformer. Matters might not be as simple as merely changing out a transformer.

Like we say to a lot of folks here, more information please. If you don't have one at least pick out a three phase supply from an on line catalog and give us the name and model.

j.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 5356
Good Answers: 49
#114
In reply to #113

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/05/2008 12:39 AM

Jeez! The best I can do is say go to the Newport Optical website, then search through their line of Oriel Arc supplies. With this limited posting process I can send you only so much info. Here are some diagrams of my 500 Watt power supply. See if you can make anything out of them.

I don't know about you, but I don't want to convert something this complicated. The guy before your last post gave a good answer regarding the reduction in ripple current by using 3-phase. And I would much rather find a way to supply the power supply with 3-phase, than try to convert it to accept 1-phase.

__________________
"Perplexity is the beginning of dementia" - Professor Coriolus
Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Olde Member!! Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Dunstable, England
Posts: 2821
Good Answers: 45
#115
In reply to #114

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/05/2008 9:51 AM

Just as an aside comment Vermin...

I've safety checked some commercial equipment which uses far more power than a single socket outlet can supply.

5 kW, in the UK our outlets are rated at 3kW max. So whath the manufacturers do is to put two separate mains leads into the appliance, both, of course plugged into separate mains outlets...

Seems a bit strange but quite logical if you need more power than a single outlet can provide.

John.

__________________
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing - Googling is far worse!
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 749
Good Answers: 12
#116
In reply to #114

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/06/2008 8:23 PM

Not that complicated Vermin. At least not the A.C. mains and transformer voltage reductions or increases from the three phase primary.

I can't make out the details very well and don't have in place image zoom on this machine to blow it, and if I did I suspect the image would be too degraded to use.

Nonetheless, if you look at the lower right hand of the schematic, the rectangular square with all the lines going in and coming out, that is your transformer. You can make out the three lines going in, i.e., the three phase feed.

All the other lines represent multiple secondary windings each representing a single phase circuit. No problem to jerk that transformer and to the extent possible, I'll bet the one they used was wound special, replace it with a single phase multi-tap to the extent possible covering the requisite voltages. When some voltages can't be found in a single transformer we simply add specific trannies for the specific voltages.

Replacement trannies, single phase, be it one or more, will take more space than the one we jerk but we simply group them in another can and cable them with plugs to the original can.

That's not very complicated, just laborious. Until I saw what we were dealing with in terms of actual circuit I could not anticipate such a complex single, multi-tap, transformer. In the old days before low voltage transistors and circuitry, electronic gear used to have such multi-tap transformers delivering vacuum tube filament voltages, usually 6 volts, and plate voltages, 250 volts or more.

I'm going to look up the company, Oriel, on the web and see if I can get a clearer diagram.

But at the moment it would appear the simplest way for you to go would be rotary conversion. That would require a new feed, probably 90 amperes at 220, from your house mains. Were I there that would be simple but I am not there and although you apparently play with dangerous toys I am not sure you could do that for yourself although an electrician could probably do such in an hour or so.

Then you would need a motor-generator set that would put out the requisite 220, 3 phase.

That could be expensive unless you live someplace like New York where you might find such as surplus on Canal Street.

Still, if I understand correctly, all this is to supply a high intensity arc that does nothing more than contribute high intensity light to be pumped up by a laser device.

I can't understand, outside of the ignition pulse why that should be so complicated as the diagram suggests.

I will have a look.

At last some real information. One thing yet missing. What are the identifiers on that lamp. Manufacturer and lamp number or wattage and voltage. The complications on that drawing might be mostly related to the fact that it is a source for a pulsed lamp voltage.

Eliminate pulsing and it might really be a simple straight thru matter. You did say you wanted a constant source for this run. Right?

By the way. I don't remember that your entry says where you are. If it is not government secret and all this about a new secret weapon, where indeed, are you. That too might be helpful in terms of sourcing.

j.

P.S. I just occurs to me that if you looked at sources for amatuer (Who would use single phase) transmitter supplies you might find just the unit you need providing, once again, we know the voltage and wattage of that lamp.

j.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 5356
Good Answers: 49
#117
In reply to #116

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/06/2008 10:39 PM

Hey Jack,

Just so I'm sure we're on the same page here, the block diagrams and the schematic are for my 110V single-phase supply, and not for a 3-phase model.

__________________
"Perplexity is the beginning of dementia" - Professor Coriolus
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Etherville
Posts: 12334
Good Answers: 115
#118
In reply to #117

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/07/2008 5:53 AM

110 ? You pussy. We have 240 V and at least 50 amps (if you bypass to the 'service head' )Don't get kidded by our 13 amp socket outlets in the UK. We can go way bigger then that. 2 phases in every house, and if you live on a farm you can get 3.

__________________
For sale - Signature space. Apply on self addressed postcard..
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 5356
Good Answers: 49
#104
In reply to #84

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/01/2008 12:17 AM

Hey Jack,

Did you ever get round to taking a look at the arc lamp power supply on eBay? What do you think?

vermin-

__________________
"Perplexity is the beginning of dementia" - Professor Coriolus
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 749
Good Answers: 12
#105
In reply to #104

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/01/2008 3:22 PM

Vermin,

Didn't see a reference to it. Perhaps I missed it.

Email me with it at bigjackjj@yahoo.com

Seriously your acquisition of such as the laser and the problems powering it interest me but without circuitry can't offer much except big diesel generators which defeat your apparently acquiring the laser on the cheap.

As somebody that used to solve problems in industrial maintenance for employers that did not want to spend money this kind of thing is fun

j.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 5356
Good Answers: 49
#106
In reply to #105

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/01/2008 4:02 PM

Hey Jack,

Just go to my post #92, then click on the word "eBay." I linked the URL to the word.

vermin-

__________________
"Perplexity is the beginning of dementia" - Professor Coriolus
Register to Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Jamestown N.Y.
Posts: 23
#123
In reply to #39
Find in discussion

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/09/2008 4:13 PM

your just messing with everyone now!

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 5356
Good Answers: 49
#127
In reply to #123

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/09/2008 11:35 PM

No. That was way back in the beginning of this post. Your answer was very good, actually. Here's how the answers have broken down so far...

  1. No, you can't get 220V 3-phase from 110V 1-phase.
  2. Yes, you can if you use a phase converter - seems worth looking into.
  3. Get the power company to hook you up with 220V, 3-P, but they probably won't in a residential community.
  4. The reason why most of these companies designed around 3-phase is it reduces ripple-voltage and provides a lot of slack.
  5. There are newer designs on the market that use 220V, 1-p by employing some fairly sophisticated electronics.

Thanks, one and all!!!

__________________
"Perplexity is the beginning of dementia" - Professor Coriolus
Register to Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 80
Good Answers: 5
#198
In reply to #39
Find in discussion

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

09/15/2008 11:53 AM

If you want three phase and only have single phase available, you can either:

1) Get a motor-generator set (single phase motor / gas / diesel turning 3 phase gen set)

2) Get a phase converter

3) Scrap the project

End of story

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: KnoxTN
Posts: 1485
Good Answers: 6
#35

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

06/21/2008 11:55 PM

vermin First off. Do you KNOW the voltage across the two outlets.? If it is zero its a no go as both outlets are on the same leg, L1 or L2. If they measure 220 V. they are connected to L1 & L2.

If this is a serious proposal install a bigger incoming breaker box and provide adequate wiring for the load. All of which will most likely require a permit from your utilites provider, and a qualified electrician to do the work. As a home owner you might be able to DIY but in view of your question(s) would recommend the electrician. SS

__________________
Do Nothing Simply When a Way Can be Found to Make it Complex and Wonderful
Register to Reply
Participant

Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2
#40

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

06/22/2008 3:06 AM

argrdg

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 5356
Good Answers: 49
#41
In reply to #40

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

06/22/2008 3:45 AM

What does "a new generation of protein database search programs" have to do with the topic at hand?

__________________
"Perplexity is the beginning of dementia" - Professor Coriolus
Register to Reply
Power-User
Technical Fields - Education - New Member Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 367
Good Answers: 1
#45

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

06/22/2008 8:49 AM

According to the sketch the load will have almost ZERO volts on its terminals.

O V ac voltage will "produce" current of zero Ampere ac in ANY load.

Or if your service has 120 -0-120 or simple phase 240 V service you will have 220-240 V on the load and the LOAD must be rated 230 V (standard USA voltage). Still protection will disconnect the load in overload over 30A from both side, the 120 V "hots". If my guesses are correct you have "No way Jose" situation!

How do you want to do this "experiment"? Inserting wire (naked" w/o insulation) to two "hot" slots of receptacles may create el_shock. An American will survive 120 v /60Hz to the ground outside a bath tube!

Register to Reply
Anonymous Poster
#50

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

06/22/2008 5:23 PM

The connection is improper, but IF you did have two separate 30A. circuits available, and IF they happened to be connected to different phases of the panel, then you could get

30A. at 208 or 240V., (depending on the system), between them.

If they were connected to the same phase, you would get nothing, until you grounded the wire, and then, with two breakers feeding into the fault, you'd really fry.

You would NOT get 60A. to the load. It doesn't work that way.

If you play about with line power with the knowledge you display in this question, I forsee a Darwin Award in your future.

Please don't set the house on fire.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Sebring, Florida
Posts: 923
Good Answers: 25
#53

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

06/22/2008 6:56 PM

There are no stupid questions. Only stupid people asking the questions about how to accomplish stupid acts.

TMF

__________________
The only problem with common sense, is that not very many people have it, or know how or when to use it.
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Power-User
Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Hobbies - Model Rocketry - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: here
Posts: 107
Good Answers: 5
#54

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

06/22/2008 8:41 PM

Hi all, there really is no way of converting single phase to 3 phase in a simple residential setup. It can be done by using various UPS systems for professional phase inverters. I would like to see what you are up to and I am sure WE could come up with a solution to your electrical dilema.

E-mail me and I/WE will see what you need and what we can come up with. No I don't want money or anything, just lasers and electricity are fun if handled safely.

wpkenney@lbl.gov

Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 142
Good Answers: 3
#61

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

06/23/2008 7:30 AM

IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR 60 AMPS 110 VOLTS NO GOOD. IF YOU WANTED THE SAME CURRENT AT 220 AND THE RECEPTICLES ARE ON SEPARATE PHASES YOU NOW HAVE 30 AMPS 220= 6600 WATTS VS 60 AMPS 110=6600 WATTS. TOASTER PROBABLY WON'T HANDLE THIS BU THE BREAKER (WEAKEST ONE) WILL PROBABLY TRIP AFTER LETTING OUT SOME SMOKE. YOU MIGHT PAY AN ELECTRICIAN TO MAKE THE CHANGES. YOU SHOULD NOT NEED A LARGER SERVICE AS YOU HAVE 100 AMPS ON 2 PHASES 22,000 WATTS AT EITHER 110 OR 220 VOLTS. THATS ALOT OF POWER AND OPERATING AT FULL LOAD FOR AND HOURS AT $.10/KW YOU ARE SPENDING $2.20 PER HOUR PLUS TAX.

Register to Reply
3
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 30461
Good Answers: 819
#64

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

06/23/2008 11:16 AM

An electrical novice called vermin

to CR4 went for some learnin'

The reaction by far

Was, "Don't do it, Pa -

That black ball of fur will be burnin'"

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 3)
Guru
Canada - Member - If there is a way to screw someting up, there is someone to do so! Safety - Hazmat - New Member

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Iqaluit, NU. Canada
Posts: 1852
Good Answers: 140
#65
In reply to #64

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

06/23/2008 11:39 AM

Bravo...

__________________
Joe Contractor to Electrical Inspector, "What do you mean you are going to make me follow the code?".
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 5356
Good Answers: 49
#71
In reply to #64

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

06/24/2008 12:50 AM

Oh, good! This looks like another chance for me to get chastised!!!

__________________
"Perplexity is the beginning of dementia" - Professor Coriolus
Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 30461
Good Answers: 819
#85
In reply to #71

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

06/25/2008 10:58 AM

Or hot under the collar....

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply
Anonymous Poster
#66

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

06/23/2008 3:58 PM

This will not do anything if both sockets are at the same phase. unless your load is also connected to neutral. If you are in a house with 3 phase system and sockets are at different phases, you can deliver harmonic with a fundamental frequency of 60hz between sockets through the wire (The wire becomes your load in this case instead of your original load) and you will either have a firework of cables or the wire you use will heat up like crazy and the fuses will blow...

Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Cosmology - Let's keep knowledge expanding Engineering Fields - Retired Engineers / Mentors -

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: North America, Earth
Posts: 4390
Good Answers: 104
#67

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

06/23/2008 9:27 PM

Hi Vermin,

You got the question right, and the answer is yes. In your initial drawing, you will get 0 volts if the hot wires are in phase, and 220V if out of phase.

Good news is that you can convert 110V 1 phase into 220V 3 phase with 3 transformers. The secondaries are connected in a Y configuration. Getting the amperage you want may be a problem. Most US installations in homes and apartments are 15 amp service. If you plug each primary into a different breaker, you may get close, but you would have to be sure of the phase relationship of the 3 services!

If this is for a laser, forget it. Its much too dangerous especially if its an infrared laser like my boss had.

S

__________________
“I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” - Richard Feynman
Register to Reply
Guru
Canada - Member - If there is a way to screw someting up, there is someone to do so! Safety - Hazmat - New Member

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Iqaluit, NU. Canada
Posts: 1852
Good Answers: 140
#68
In reply to #67

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

06/23/2008 11:47 PM

The 240 volts Vermin would get if the plugs are on different rails of the panelboard in the residence is not "out of phase". As the 240 volt source is created from nothing more then 2 120v single phase sources connected in series, there is no possible way they could be out of phase. No... they are not 180 degrees out of phase either.

__________________
Joe Contractor to Electrical Inspector, "What do you mean you are going to make me follow the code?".
Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Cosmology - Let's keep knowledge expanding Engineering Fields - Retired Engineers / Mentors -

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: North America, Earth
Posts: 4390
Good Answers: 104
#78
In reply to #68

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

06/24/2008 8:34 PM

I don't feel like arguing or calling you stupid right now, maybe later.

__________________
“I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” - Richard Feynman
Register to Reply
Guru
Canada - Member - If there is a way to screw someting up, there is someone to do so! Safety - Hazmat - New Member

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Iqaluit, NU. Canada
Posts: 1852
Good Answers: 140
#79
In reply to #78

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

06/24/2008 10:50 PM

Don't bother letting me know when you are ready to discuss it, your attitude tells me it will not be worth the effort involved in the discussion.

__________________
Joe Contractor to Electrical Inspector, "What do you mean you are going to make me follow the code?".
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Sandy Eggo, Khalifornia US of A
Posts: 468
Good Answers: 1
#97
In reply to #68

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

06/27/2008 12:05 AM

The service coming in would be a single phase service with a messenger cable (essentially the neutral wire, or return, which is the uninsulated wire in the group of wires coming down from the power pole... or up from underground services), so that would be three wires... 2 hots and a neutral or A phase and B phase (or A-C or B-c) and a neutral, right? You still with me? A 240, 1Ø, 2pole, whatever amperage breaker is going to be connected to two different phases (via the bus bar in the back of the panel) and, whoa, are you still with me? I think that one of the "minibreakers" (you know the ones that have 2 seperate poles on their faces) would have seperate phase connections. Couldn't say for sure because I don't really work on resi stuff and that is a breaker only found in resi(dential) applications. (Having said this, I would be pretty sure that they wouldn't have a breaker like this for a certain black fuzz ball.) This would make the connections 120 degrees out of phase with each other, I think, I don't know maybe I am wrong...Last I checked, the power companies still sent 3Ø power on to the grid....

Cheers

ps how do you make a 3Ø 3wire system deliver 480 volts phase to phase and then phase to ground on A and C phases while B phase to ground reads 0V? I found this at a job that was in an existing building. Asking around, I could get no answer because none of the other guys that I know had ever heard of this. It is called either a ghost leg or a ghost phase...

__________________
Madness takes its toll, please have exact change...
Register to Reply
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#98
In reply to #97

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

06/27/2008 8:42 AM

"...It is called either a ghost leg or a ghost phase..."

Also called a star connection or wild leg - the center tap is grounded inside the transformer. Used in remote locations (oil rigs, for example) where a fault (like an animal getting in the works) would cause a problem, it immediately shuts down the whole thing instead. Interesting...

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2547
Good Answers: 103
#99
In reply to #97

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

06/27/2008 9:00 AM

The 480 V phase to phase and phase to ground is easy - Put a Y transformer and the B leg of the Y on secondary side connect to earth wire.

This is called floating neutral connection (The neutral now will not be earthed (and no, it will not be connected to a phase also) - this way there will be a heavy short-circuit current passing inside the transformer.

__________________
Fantastic ideas for a Fantastic World, I make the illogical logical.They put me in cars,they put me in yer tv.They put me in stereos and those little radios you stick in your ears.They even put me in watches, they have teeny gremlins for your watches
Register to Reply
Guru
Canada - Member - If there is a way to screw someting up, there is someone to do so! Safety - Hazmat - New Member

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Iqaluit, NU. Canada
Posts: 1852
Good Answers: 140
#101
In reply to #97

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

06/27/2008 2:00 PM

The 480 volt three phase system you mention is called a "Corner Grounded Delta System". There is no neutral right?

__________________
Joe Contractor to Electrical Inspector, "What do you mean you are going to make me follow the code?".
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Sandy Eggo, Khalifornia US of A
Posts: 468
Good Answers: 1
#103
In reply to #101

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

06/28/2008 2:36 PM

Right, there is not a neutral coming into the distribution gear. We derived a neutral by placing xfmr's (2 of them: 1 is a 240/120, the "center tapped" and the other is 208/120 ). It is in an older part of an "industrial" area, also was related to me that it was a "typical" sort of power feed from (think of an old geezers voice saying...) waayyy back in the day son, way baack in th' day... hic, hiccup.... where is the beer at?

Cheers

__________________
Madness takes its toll, please have exact change...
Register to Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Troy, NY
Posts: 10
#89

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

06/25/2008 2:27 PM

I'm not an electrician, but in that configuration current won't flow through the load at all! the hot soide has to meet the neutral side through the load for current to flow

Try wiring them in paralell, that should keep the voltage at 110 and combine the currents

You say the sockets are independant, do you mean they are on seperate breakers?

because unless they are you won't be bale to draw 60 amps

Register to Reply
Anonymous Poster
#94

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

06/26/2008 5:24 PM

And I thought I delt with idiots all day!!!!

Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Not a New Member Hobbies - Musician - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Reading, Berkshire, UK. Going under cover.
Posts: 9684
Good Answers: 467
#95
In reply to #94

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

06/26/2008 8:23 PM
__________________
"Love justice, you who rule the world" - Dante Alighieri
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 5356
Good Answers: 49
#96
In reply to #94

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

06/26/2008 10:38 PM

Hey!!! That's Mister Idiot to you, bub!

__________________
"Perplexity is the beginning of dementia" - Professor Coriolus
Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 30461
Good Answers: 819
#100

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

06/27/2008 9:08 AM

Oh, dear.

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Olde Member!! Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Dunstable, England
Posts: 2821
Good Answers: 45
#102
In reply to #100

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

06/27/2008 2:04 PM

Oooooo vermin, I like the new style

__________________
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing - Googling is far worse!
Register to Reply
Power-User
Technical Fields - Education - New Member Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 367
Good Answers: 1
#119

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/07/2008 9:42 AM

May I beg Us Americans to use proper -standard - nominal values of AC low voltages:

115 V for loads and 120 V for supply (e.g. services). Check your NEC and NEMA updated books. 110 V was in XIX Century Germany or maybe my memory is wrong.

Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 749
Good Answers: 12
#120
In reply to #119

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/08/2008 6:19 AM

Your memory is wrong.

110 v.a.c. was the fact in 20th century U.S. The reason in practice that it is now 120 is that circuit loading threatened to overload the distribution system. Making a tap change on transformers, percentage wise a small increase in voltage, results in lower current loads on local distribution cables.

Your code books in that regard do not always reflect what is to the power companies a necessary practical step.

j.

Register to Reply
Power-User
Technical Fields - Education - New Member Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 367
Good Answers: 1
#121
In reply to #120

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/08/2008 1:35 PM

Thanks for additional explanations.

Germans have now 220 V/50 Hz for domestic receptacles and 231 V for single phase transformer secondary or em-gen-sets with 231/400 V nominal out. It seems they doubled the old nominal voltage from 110 to a new 220 V.

In USA you will see motors mostly rated 230V or 460V when outputs from transformers are 240V or 480 V/60 Hz. They are: Standard load vs. standard service rated voltages.

5% voltage drop practically is for feeder and circuit to the load.

All small appliances I have seen have no voltage 110V on their nameplates!. They have 115 or 120 V

Register to Reply
Anonymous Poster
#159

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/21/2008 12:26 PM

Hey All,

I have told Vermin, after extracting from him the actual voltage and load rating of that arc tube, that I would draw up a power supply for him.

I must admit I am behind on that.

Nonetheless, what I don't understand is why so many of you, rather than going directly at the issue, i.e., what are the ratings for that lamp, you have focused on the three phase issue or the meaningless drawings.

The lamp requires 146 volts and draws 45 amps.

Simple.

Pull a 240 v.a.c. pair from a 2 pole 90 amp breaker in his residential power system, feed it through a bridge of 100 amp diodes and then regulate it down to 146 volts.

As many of you know diodes are dirt cheap.

Large electrolytic capacitors are dirt cheap.

Still needed is the regulator circuit or components to build it. That is not necessarily cheap.

At any rate that is a straight forward attack on the problem rather than phase converters, etc., which until Vermin provided the specs I engaged in also.

Still not addressed is the high voltage ignition pulse for the gas filled ND-YAG NL 536 arc lamp although that ought to be as simple as a momentary switched transformer. One of the problems is I can't find the voltage for that ionizing ignition pulse but it is probably anywhere from 5KV to 8KV.

At any rate I am late with the circuit, I am not really set up here to draw that sort of thing and put it up here, and while informing and apologising to Vermin I also thought I would raise the herein question as to how we all approached the matter.

j.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 749
Good Answers: 12
#160

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/21/2008 1:10 PM

So that's what happens when you are on a different machine. You get logged as "Guest."

Jack Jersawitz

Register to Reply
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#161
In reply to #160

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/21/2008 1:53 PM

Yep, unless you happen to remember your log-in info and log in as you...

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Not a New Member Hobbies - Musician - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Reading, Berkshire, UK. Going under cover.
Posts: 9684
Good Answers: 467
#162
In reply to #160

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/21/2008 3:51 PM

I go "in" from machines all over the place. Just google CR4, & go there, then bung in the old moniker & password. You're in, as 'you'. And unlike some sites, you can be logged in on loads of machines at the same time! I can go across town, log in on the PC at the "Factory" (where I've got contracts), come home & I'm still "in" on my desk machine.

__________________
"Love justice, you who rule the world" - Dante Alighieri
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#163
In reply to #162

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/21/2008 4:21 PM

All well and good for you - you remember what you used for a password! I just stay logged on at the office, 'cause I don't have time for this at home. Don't really, here either, but have to take breaks once in a while...

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Not a New Member Hobbies - Musician - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Reading, Berkshire, UK. Going under cover.
Posts: 9684
Good Answers: 467
#164
In reply to #163

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/21/2008 4:43 PM

I use the same password for everything - makes remembering easy - but don't tell anyone .

__________________
"Love justice, you who rule the world" - Dante Alighieri
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#165
In reply to #164

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/21/2008 4:52 PM

I normally do too, but for some reason I must have used a one-off when I registered here, because my "usual" password won't cut it.

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Not a New Member Hobbies - Musician - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Reading, Berkshire, UK. Going under cover.
Posts: 9684
Good Answers: 467
#166
In reply to #165

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/21/2008 5:16 PM

Oh, yea, that one. Did it once - swore never again. (There's still one site I can't get back onto after about 4 years - not that I've tried that hard).

Anyhoo - guess you're pretty well known round here, an' if you say 'pretty please', I'm sure one or other of the Chris/Moose type guys will jog your memory.

__________________
"Love justice, you who rule the world" - Dante Alighieri
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#167
In reply to #166

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/21/2008 5:48 PM

Yeah, I normally try to keep a much lower profile than I seem to have achieved in these parts...

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Etherville
Posts: 12334
Good Answers: 115
#168
In reply to #166

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/22/2008 6:06 AM

.......I had a most embarasing experience just after X-mas. Chris and the guys were great, and helped me out pronto when I posted my dilema under one of his posts in a thread (e-mailed me direct with recovery instructions). My shame remains on a thread out there somewhere.

__________________
For sale - Signature space. Apply on self addressed postcard..
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#169
In reply to #168

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/22/2008 7:13 AM

"...shame remains on a thread..."

Any shame you'd have could dangle by a thread, I reckon! I'm rather surprised you even know the meaning of the word...

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Etherville
Posts: 12334
Good Answers: 115
#170
In reply to #169

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/22/2008 7:21 AM

LOL ! A day is not complete unless I have committed some shameful* deed.

* I hasten to add that my own boundaries are somewhat wider than most. I could 'wax philosophical' on this, but she's not here at the moment.

__________________
For sale - Signature space. Apply on self addressed postcard..
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#171
In reply to #170

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/22/2008 7:26 AM

THNTPMSL!!! (trying hard not to...in case you wonder)

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Etherville
Posts: 12334
Good Answers: 115
#172
In reply to #171

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/22/2008 7:38 AM

I always wonder about you my friend ! ( Waxing must induce terrible fear in you present guise ! vermin would be crapping himself !! A good dose of Febreze could sort it out). I think my present 'committee' need an urgent change back to ol' Nick.

__________________
For sale - Signature space. Apply on self addressed postcard..
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#173
In reply to #172

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/22/2008 8:38 AM

I've another 1K morph approaching myself - MUST uphold tradition, eh?

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Etherville
Posts: 12334
Good Answers: 115
#174
In reply to #173

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/22/2008 5:29 PM

Oh Lord - keep the faith ! Keep the faith ! Say... I need a new rug for the living room in my house.....do you have any relatives who......well ya know.....shame to let things go to waste.....Rhino hide wouldn't really work, but something nice and fluffy ? Del has declined my invitation to help out here. There just ain't enough on a skwirrel - barely enough for one of those mats that go around a toilet.

I just love these threads that talk about elocution. I took class 240 once or twice. It was a revelation. Ever since, I've been addicted to 'tasting' 9V batteries on my tongue. Doing this with a car battery was not so happy.

__________________
For sale - Signature space. Apply on self addressed postcard..
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#175
In reply to #174

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/23/2008 10:57 AM

Elocution is almost as important as being well-spoken.

No kin about to shuffle off the mortal coil that I know of, but I'll ask around. Have you considered a nice...

...altho "nice" might not be the correct descriptive.

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Etherville
Posts: 12334
Good Answers: 115
#176
In reply to #175

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/23/2008 5:30 PM

You leave my steenkin' badgers alone ! Rupert Bear is fair game though. 'ucking tartan trousers ! NRA - go for it !

Anyone : Just for the (One off) sake of staying almost on topic, how many Volts or Amps would it take to kill me ? Many years ago a lecturer in Electrical Engineering described such a thing in graphic detail, but I have forgot how the calculation went.

__________________
For sale - Signature space. Apply on self addressed postcard..
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#177
In reply to #176

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/23/2008 5:38 PM

I'll look into it on the off chance I may be able to persuade you to partake...

Have you noticed how this thread seems to have become a private preserve of late? The Kris and EnviroMan Show if we were DeeJays. Short-lived show with no more audience than this, though... Oh well, PLAY ON!

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Etherville
Posts: 12334
Good Answers: 115
#178
In reply to #177

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/23/2008 5:55 PM

LOL! We can keep any show on the road mate ! 'Barnum and Baily' it ain't, but we can keep things bubbling along. My last post here had something halfway sensible in it.

__________________
For sale - Signature space. Apply on self addressed postcard..
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Anonymous Poster
#179
In reply to #178

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/23/2008 6:55 PM

Oh, yea? Sez who?

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#184
In reply to #178

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/24/2008 7:58 AM

"My last post here had something halfway sensible in it."

I've re-read it four times, and damned if I can see it! Am I missing summat?

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Etherville
Posts: 12334
Good Answers: 115
#187
In reply to #184

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/24/2008 4:22 PM

Didn't you get it - Enviromentalizing is the latest sport ; We have to catch each other, it's a bit like 'tag'. One day I'll catch up and you will owe me a drink ! I like the sound of Okefenokee, are there any good bars that way ?

__________________
For sale - Signature space. Apply on self addressed postcard..
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#189
In reply to #187

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/24/2008 4:45 PM

Nah, that's a swamp on the Florida/Georgia border. Only ones doin' their drinkin' there are the skeeters.

If I have to wait fer YOU to catch up, we'll both go sober! That'd be alcohol abuse, I reckon.

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Etherville
Posts: 12334
Good Answers: 115
#190
In reply to #189

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/24/2008 8:34 PM

It's probably the greatest improbability on Earth - we can live in hope though. One of my sisters is in Florida this week - the temptation is huge !"I know a dude on the west coast of Florida" she's a senior police officer, know what I mean. The dang swamp might look quite attractive. On an almost Georgian note, "Gone With The Wind" - One of ther best films ever made. I've lost count of the times I've been told off for looking at peoples green drapes.

__________________
For sale - Signature space. Apply on self addressed postcard..
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#191
In reply to #190

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/25/2008 7:27 AM

Didn't I meet that sister? Wot - an international case, or just a case of vacation?

There's always Miami Vice to consider...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0430357/

You wouldn't be told off about the green drapes so much if you could just resist gettin' 'em shot full of holes...

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Etherville
Posts: 12334
Good Answers: 115
#192
In reply to #191

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/25/2008 8:43 AM

We get MV over here, but I've never watched it. Groovy music at the start though.

__________________
For sale - Signature space. Apply on self addressed postcard..
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#193
In reply to #192

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/25/2008 9:59 AM

Never cared for it myself - too formulaic for me to be able to suspend my disbelief. Flamboyant narcotics undercover agents persisting for years - like the drug dealers never talk to each other about who busted their people!

"Look, there's that bloke with the Ferrari again. Didn't Pedro get busted right after doin' a deal with him? What's up with that?"

"Dunno - wonder why the cops can't catch up to HIM? Car's kinda noticeable..."

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Not a New Member Hobbies - Musician - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Reading, Berkshire, UK. Going under cover.
Posts: 9684
Good Answers: 467
#194
In reply to #193

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/25/2008 10:12 AM

Are/were they the guys with the white "brick-with-a-stick" type Motorola cell-phones? I had a black one of those many years ago. Weighed a ton! Needed a shoulder-holster just to lug it around.

__________________
"Love justice, you who rule the world" - Dante Alighieri
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#195
In reply to #194

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/25/2008 11:33 AM

Yeah, no way you'd carry it on your belt, it would do a drop trou on you instantly!

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Etherville
Posts: 12334
Good Answers: 115
#196
In reply to #193

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/25/2008 1:43 PM

Excellent summary !

__________________
For sale - Signature space. Apply on self addressed postcard..
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#197
In reply to #196

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/25/2008 5:04 PM

Thank'e, sar! (tugs forelock) We does our level best, we does.

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Not a New Member Hobbies - Musician - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Reading, Berkshire, UK. Going under cover.
Posts: 9684
Good Answers: 467
#180
In reply to #177

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/23/2008 7:01 PM

" ... how many Volts or Amps would it take to kill me ?"

" ... I may be able to persuade you to partake... "

Are youse guys cooking up a 'speriment, here? Can I watch? Take photos? ...

__________________
"Love justice, you who rule the world" - Dante Alighieri
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Etherville
Posts: 12334
Good Answers: 115
#181
In reply to #180

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/23/2008 7:49 PM

You, me, and 'Guest' at #179 ; tonight at Piccadilly square ! I'm a bard harstard ! Can't spell neever. Bring on the cam. The small bit is where you put your eye. I once got confused over this, and it didn't half leave me dazed !

__________________
For sale - Signature space. Apply on self addressed postcard..
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Engineering Fields - Transportation Engineering - New Member Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Technical Fields - Procurement - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Popular Science - Cosmology - New Member Engineering Fields - Architectural Engineering - New Member Technical Fields - Marketing/Advertising - New Member Engineering Fields - Food Process Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mariposa Ca
Posts: 5800
Good Answers: 114
#182
In reply to #177

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/24/2008 1:53 AM

If only you 2 would only expend all this energy on Bath Breaking 1500 is in sight.

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Anonymous Poster
#183
In reply to #182

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/24/2008 5:55 AM

ROFLMAO !

Furryy-Butt. I probibly spuilt it wrtong so yu konos wgho it woz,.

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: 30°30'N, 97°45'W, Elv: 597 ft.
Posts: 2410
Good Answers: 10
#185
In reply to #174

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/24/2008 2:15 PM

Here ya go............here

But stay away from here.........rug

__________________
I never apologize. I'm sorry that's just the way I am.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Not a New Member Hobbies - Musician - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Reading, Berkshire, UK. Going under cover.
Posts: 9684
Good Answers: 467
#186
In reply to #185

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/24/2008 3:42 PM
__________________
"Love justice, you who rule the world" - Dante Alighieri
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Etherville
Posts: 12334
Good Answers: 115
#188
In reply to #185

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

07/24/2008 4:27 PM

LMAO ! Those kids look more scared than I am !!

__________________
For sale - Signature space. Apply on self addressed postcard..
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Power-User

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
Posts: 104
#199

Re: Real stupid electrical question...

03/04/2009 3:59 AM

nothing gonna happen with that circuit, except you design like this below circuit...

this is used to increase the reability and contuinity of the system. its mean, if one s

ource or one cable is broken, there is still one supply source again.

note :

1. those 2 supply below, if coming from the same source (for example, Local/Country Electricity Generation Company). It is no problem, because it must be have the same frequency)

2. other case, if one supply comes from Power Generation Company and another comes from generator set. (please make sure the frequency is same)

Register to Reply
Register to Reply Page 2 of 2: « First < Prev 1 2 Last »
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

anderbry (3); Anonymous Poster (9); bhandejiya (1); chaterpilar (1); CONWAYMECH (1); Del the cat (5); donzi (2); elect-ok (1); Electroman (4); EnviroMan (26); EV1guy2004 (1); Ferris (4); Garthh (4); Goodho (1); Hendrik (2); Jack Jersawitz (14); JohnDG (11); Kris (22); Mr. Truman Brain (15); North of 60 (11); PWSlack (3); Qqberci (2); RicinCinci (1); Rodel M. Castillo (1); sb (1); southern123 (3); StandardsGuy (2); Steve S. (2); Stirling Stan (3); TexasCharley (2); Toomuchfun (4); user-deleted-13 (2); varun_bansal1 (1); vermin (32); Vulcan (1); zimmea (1)

Previous in Forum: Low forward power....   Next in Forum: Max Fault Current in a netwok

Advertisement