Previous in Forum: Problem with writing to Flash using Analog devices blackfin processor   Next in Forum: show hidden file and folder missing
Close
Close
Close
34 comments
Guru
Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member China - Member - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: CHINA
Posts: 2945
Good Answers: 14

Which kind of keyboard do you use?

07/09/2008 3:51 AM

I suddenly find that French and Germany use different keyboard from ours.

hehe, don't laugh at my making a fuss.

Why do they use such arranged keyboards? are all European using such keyboard?

(we use 101 standard keyboard)

Register to Reply
Pathfinder Tags: keyboard
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: City of Light
Posts: 3943
Good Answers: 182
#1

Re: Which kind of keyboard do you use?

07/09/2008 4:10 AM

In Switzerland there is an other keyboard adapted to the fact that the country used 4 languages!

Register to Reply
4
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 30580
Good Answers: 822
#2

Re: Which kind of keyboard do you use?

07/09/2008 4:45 AM

There are characters in these languages that are missing from the 26 characters in English:

  • Some French vowels have accents and an additional character called the cedilla: à â ç è é ê î ï ò ô ù û are the most common ones found. Misuse of accents is among the most common mistakes made in French by beginners.
  • German has the following additional characters with two dots above, called the 'umlaut', indicating a softened vowel with a missing 'e' after it: ä ë ï ö ü. There is also the 'double-s' character, β. Also, Z and Y are swapped over on a German keyboard compared to an English one.
  • β is not used in the Swiss dialects of German (Switzerland, though land-locked within continental Europe, is not part of the European Union).
  • Spanish has the tilde character above the n sometimes, which needs an additional key: ñ.
  • Some of the Scandinavian languages have additional characters: ø å, for example.
  • Other languages (Czech, Polish and Hungarian, among others) have special accent characters that do not appear in English.
  • The Greek alphabet is different from the rest, and contains 24 characters. Greek characters appear frequently in popular Engineering and Mathematical equations, as some of the early published work in Mathematics originated from Greece (with apologies to other nationalities and without wishing to cause offence).
  • Closer to home, the Welsh alphabet has only 24 characters; z and q are not used in Welsh, though the English keyboard is used.
  • Irish, Manx and Scots Gaelic have accents on some vowels. The ' character is used rather more in these languages than in English.

This does explain why keyboards have to be country-specific, and so the answer is, no, not every keyboard user in Europe uses the same keyboard.

A Chinese keyboard would baffle most Europeans....

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 4)
Guru
Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member China - Member - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: CHINA
Posts: 2945
Good Answers: 14
#3
In reply to #2

Re: Which kind of keyboard do you use?

07/09/2008 5:11 AM

wow. you know too much . I vote you.

the old old chinese keyboard has been denied ever loong long ago.

russia has 36 alphabits. and how about arabia?

anyone out there can paste such verious kinds of keyboards in the world?

Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - Scapolie, new member.

Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1058
Good Answers: 8
#13
In reply to #2

Re: Which kind of keyboard do you use?

07/10/2008 6:20 AM

Hi PWSlack,

You missed the Scandinavian languages, Norway and Denmark have 29 letter alfabet, while the Swedish have a 30 word alfabet.

Spencer.

Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - CNC - New Member Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member Engineering Fields - Electromechanical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 22952
Good Answers: 416
#4

Re: Which kind of keyboard do you use?

07/09/2008 7:54 AM

the qwerty key board layout came about when typewriters were manuals just to make it work. They just sold it that it was more efficent, and it stuck.

__________________
“ When people get what they want, they are often surprised when they get what they deserve " - James Wood
Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - New Member Hobbies - Musician - New Member Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: South-east corner of Spain 50 48 49.24N 2 28 27.70W
Posts: 1508
Good Answers: 31
#7
In reply to #4

Re: Which kind of keyboard do you use?

07/09/2008 2:01 PM

The QWERTY keyboard was designed to try and eliminate two or more keys jamming together on an old typewriter! The letters most used together were placed farthest apart so that the arms had the freedom of movement they required without binding on the next pressed key! That's what I heard anyway and it does seem to make sense!

I have the Spanish keyboard with the ñ! The only pain in the butt is trying to find the @ when I go from my English laptop to my Spanish desktop!

__________________
“It's kind of fun to do the impossible.” Walt Disney
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Hobbies - CNC - New Member Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member Engineering Fields - Electromechanical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 22952
Good Answers: 416
#8
In reply to #7

Re: Which kind of keyboard do you use?

07/09/2008 5:37 PM

Thats what I heard also about the keys jamming. I understand they hired a mathematician or someone of that caliber to figure it out. But when questioned why they hat the QWERTY, the response was that they did not want to say it was to solve a mechanical problem but that a study said that it was the must efficient way.

But I understood that the study was only made up.

now I have to dig a check it out. I'll let you know.

I believe each keyboard has the same ASCII code for each key

__________________
“ When people get what they want, they are often surprised when they get what they deserve " - James Wood
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Geelong, Australia
Posts: 1084
Good Answers: 54
#9
In reply to #7

Re: Which kind of keyboard do you use?

07/10/2008 12:17 AM

I think you're correct.

There are alternate keyboard layouts designed to be more efficient.

One is called DVORAK it's easy to learn, is obviously more efficient and Windows lets you remap your keyboard to suit. In fact it all seems too easy, until you try to use someone else's computer with a normal keyboard - then you're in deep trouble.

Another historical accident that we're stuck with.

__________________
If there's something you don't understand...Then a wizard did it. As heard on "The Simpsons".
Register to Reply
2
Anonymous Poster
#15
In reply to #9

Re: QWERTY in perspective

07/10/2008 7:33 AM

Okay here's the scoop. The answer to the QWERTY question is one that in former times before the advent of word processing (and personal computing) was universally taught and learned as part of any vocational typing course . . . during the time, for example, when elective typing courses were generally available in high schools to future clerical/secretarial workers, as well as to a large portion of students bound for college . . . where the alternative to typing one's own assignments was to give up scarce funds in order to have assignment manuscripts typed by others. In such courses it was taught (early on) that the QWERTY layout came about as a result of extensive analysis of letter and word incidence frequencies . . . to determine an optimum layout by which keys could be struck in alternation by left and right hand fingers . . . which was also found to promote the fastest, and least fatiguing, overall typing speed as measured in words per minute. Accordingly, and as anyone who has taken such a course might remember, the early drills in typing manuals would consist of (first) letter sequences and (then) words and word sequences which, by design, avoided successive key strikes by a single hand. Then, at a more advanced level, would be introduced the more difficult, single-hand letter and word sequences . . . those sequences which, whether it be trained or untrained "typists," present the greatest impediment to both speed and accuracy. To those not so trained, or self trained without recourse to a manual, simple observation should be sufficient to demonstrate the QWERTY keyboards efficiency at maintaining a general, left-right (even-handed) rhythm for typing.

The latter-day "intuition" of a connection between QWERTY and (pre-IBM-Selectric) typewriter mechanisms, no doubt, speaks loudest about these times in which such conjectures are advanced—namely, that we have become so accustomed (and inured) to the supplanting of formerly required human skills (such as typing skills) by mechanical and programmable automation . . . to the point where the former primacy of human skill goes unnoticed.

That said, and realizing we must hark back for an answer . . . avoidance of type clashing was (originally) no less or more than a matter of inculcated (that is to say, "drilled-in") typing skill. Again referring to vocational training, it might be recalled that typing-in-cadence was an important aspect not only of drilling, but also of grading and advancement to course completion. The idea was that (before speed development) the student must develop an even strike rhythm in which all strokes, both impact (type) strokes and non-impact (bar, tab,...) strokes alike, are evenly spaced in time; none of the cacophonous, clattering bursts by which supposed, nonchalant modern computer whizzes are dramatized (by sound effect) in today's entertainment programming would have ever made the grade. And a skilled instructor needed only to walk about, listening, to know which students would grade well and which would lag . . . that and which would be marked down for jambing his/her machine.

So it was as a result of QWERTY that vocational typists could attain high WPM levels; and as a result of successful training that jamming of machines was a thing not to be seen among "career typist" office workers.

Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Earth. England/America -the birthplace of the C. S. A. - anywhere I imagine -home.
Posts: 773
Good Answers: 33
#29
In reply to #4

Re: Which kind of keyboard do you use?

07/23/2008 10:40 PM

phoenix911 - Wrong! The qwerty keyboard was to slow down the typists on the old mechanical typewriters because they could type faster than the mechanisms would operate. There is an alternative keyboard developed for electric typewriters which allows much faster typing speeds, however the old qwerty is so pervasive and so many have learned it, we will probably never change now. I have heard that you can get them for computers by special order. Forgot the name of them though.

__________________
No technology is so obsolete that it won't work. A stone knife still can kill you as dead as a laser.
Register to Reply
Anonymous Poster
#30
In reply to #29

Re: Which kind of keyboard do you use?

07/24/2008 4:35 AM

The qwerty keyboard was to slow down the typists on the old mechanical typewriters because they could type faster than the mechanisms would operate.

With all due respect, it seems you persist in this notion solely because of the fact that someone or something convinced you, of all people, to believe it. But did you ever stop to ponder how ridiculous it is on its very face? And why you, and possibly your source, are the only one's not in undisputed agreement that no inventor in his right mind, and likewise no one commissioning an invention, would spend a minute, or a penny, trying to devise something that would slow down a typist, when the raison d'etre, both of typewriters and of typing, is to speed things up!

Unwittingly, you are right to the degree that QWERTY, by facilitating key strikes in alternate-hand cadence, will tend to reduce the likelihood of jambs, an eventuality the likelihood of occurrence of was made even greater with the advent of motorized typewriters and touch typing. It was in fact that advent, and the difficulty of avoiding jams even with QWERTY, which stimulated and eventually led to the invention and development of the moving type ball as a replacement for moving carriage and fixed-pivot, single character type arms: the IBM Selectric.

Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Olde Member!! Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Dunstable, England
Posts: 2821
Good Answers: 45
#5

Re: Which kind of keyboard do you use?

07/09/2008 9:44 AM

Basically all the keyboards are the same inside as well as where the switches are...

The only difference being that the keycap legends represent the type of charactor that the computer interprets as being from that key...

If I were to change my computer to French, USA or German language then the keys wouldn't type what the keycap is printed...

A friend many years ago bought a job lot of laptops with out seeing them and they all had German keyboards.. At first he was going to scrap them, until I said just buy a sh*t load of replacement keycaps for English keyboards and swop them a round....

He never did buy me that drink he offered!!!

John.

__________________
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing - Googling is far worse!
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: 30°30'N, 97°45'W, Elv: 597 ft.
Posts: 2410
Good Answers: 10
#6
In reply to #5

Re: Which kind of keyboard do you use?

07/09/2008 9:46 AM

A tougher task for the laptop.

__________________
I never apologize. I'm sorry that's just the way I am.
Register to Reply
Power-User
United States - Member - Donald here, Campbell Lighting Co. Engineering Fields - Retired Engineers / Mentors - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: central arkansas
Posts: 337
#10

Re: Which kind of keyboard do you use?

07/10/2008 12:50 AM

So, where can I buy a keyboard that I can type in english, and it will print out in Chinese?

Donald

__________________
Check out our home page for specs on "Soft Neon"
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 414
Good Answers: 19
#12
In reply to #10

Re: Which kind of keyboard do you use?

07/10/2008 3:09 AM

Mac OS X gives you the option of configuring your standard 101-key keyboard like any of about twenty or thirty different foreign-language keyboards. Although it won't translate your text for you, several of the keyboards have a "phonetic" option, which means that pressing a key produces the foreign letter that sounds most like the English one.

Of course, even that wouldn't work with Chinese, which uses non-alphabetic symbols, or with Cherokee, Japanese, or Hangul (Korean), which are syllabic. It will produce the character corresponding to that key on a keyboard designed for that language, but the typist needs to know which key to push to obtain the desired result.

Register to Reply
Associate
Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - Member

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Gujarat, INDIA
Posts: 46
Good Answers: 3
#26
In reply to #10

Which kind of keyboard do you use?

07/20/2008 8:35 AM

They use a standard QWERTY keyboard. They type the letters in 'pin-yin'. Whenever i receive a mail from chinese (i do get a lot) the script is displayed as 'SIMSUN'. Word & Excel documents open normally, but i have to rename dwg & rar files. Otherwise they don't open. If SIMSUN script is not installed, they are displayed as squares.

I believe, original chinese language had 50,000 characters which is still follwed in CANTONESE {Hongkong, Taiwan & Canton (it has since been renamed Guangdou??)}. The communist government reduced the characters to 5,000 following PIN-YIN, used in Mandarin. 90% of the words can be written with 1,000 characters. Still, it must be hard on the children to learn 1,000 characters in school. When I conveyed my sympathies to my chinese friends, they were surprised. They said it is not that difficult: it was as easy as using the chopsticks

Register to Reply
Anonymous Poster
#27
In reply to #26

Re: Which kind of keyboard do you use?

07/21/2008 5:11 AM

Intuitively, it seems you might be equating "characters" with letters; when, in fact, and unless I'm mistaken, Chinese pictographs (ideographs) represent words, not letters from which words are composed. In alphabet based writing, one learns an alphabet and then how to put together letters to make words. In a word language one learns to draw the word character.

Learning by Chinese children is probably not much different from other children; they would learn basic word pictures and build on that. In some ways the Chinese lends itself better to children's learning since they are drawing word images rather than memorizing letters and abstracting words from the letter symbols. Perhaps a close approximation would be the way western children draw stick figures as approximations of the actual thing.

Chinese also has a phonetic component: in that the symbolic representation of a spoken sound in one word can be used to make that same sound in other words. Probably the harder aspect of Chinese writing is to learn the historic symbolic representations of words. This would be something like the Chinese equivalent of a dictionary. It might seem confusing having a word represented by more than one character; but probably less so when you remember that its not so much writing as it is drawing pictures. One way to get a sense of reading chinese is to play Mahjong. That teaches to quickly recognize unfamilar pen (brush) stroke patterns. It can be tedious at first but you soon get better at recognizing the word groups and patterns. I wouldn't be surprised if Chinese children play mahjong to become accustomed to Chinese writing.

Maybe someone who speaks the Chinese language will come here and give us a little demonstration.

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 4)
Power-User
Ireland - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Energy Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 197
Good Answers: 17
#11

Re: Which kind of keyboard do you use?

07/10/2008 1:15 AM

I had my computer fitted with this key, which is bright and shiney from frequent use....

(Sorry for any offence)

__________________
I love deadlines; I love the whooshing sound they make as they pass by. - Douglas Adams
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Hobbies - Musician - New Member Hobbies - Car Customizing - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: FL Space Coast
Posts: 536
Good Answers: 14
#14
In reply to #11

Re: Which kind of keyboard do you use?

07/10/2008 6:53 AM

LOL

I love it! I need one of my own

Register to Reply
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#16
In reply to #11

Re: Which kind of keyboard do you use?

07/10/2008 8:17 AM

ROFLMSAO!!! I WANT one! That's even better than my (previous) favorites PANIC and ANY KEY:

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Register to Reply
Anonymous Poster
#28
In reply to #11

Re: Which kind of keyboard do you use?

07/21/2008 5:13 AM

Crude! Sorry you could not resist the impulse.

Register to Reply
Associate

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: NoWhere NH, USA
Posts: 33
Good Answers: 1
#17

Re: Which kind of keyboard do you use?

07/10/2008 9:57 AM

Gary Larsen "God at his keyboard". Smite key. Classic.

Mike

Register to Reply
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#18
In reply to #17

Re: Which kind of keyboard do you use?

07/10/2008 11:44 AM

I presume "Shift+Smite" = Smote Mightily! ROFLMSAO!!!

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: 30°30'N, 97°45'W, Elv: 597 ft.
Posts: 2410
Good Answers: 10
#19
In reply to #18

Re: Which kind of keyboard do you use?

07/10/2008 11:48 AM

"Control + Smite" = smite en masse!

hahahahahhahahahaha!

__________________
I never apologize. I'm sorry that's just the way I am.
Register to Reply
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#20
In reply to #19

Re: Which kind of keyboard do you use?

07/10/2008 12:36 PM

OK, so just to finish it out, Alt+Smite = tap on shoulder by conscience

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Member

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 7
#21

Re: Which kind of keyboard do you use?

07/10/2008 2:15 PM

I would think that the keyboards are custom built to suit the language requirements of that geographical location. German and French is very different from English. If you go to China, Japan or Korea they would use a different keyboard as well. Same with people in Brazil and Arabia.

The answer to the second part would be that not all Europeans use similar keyboards. Its different in each countries. As a matter of fact UK keyboarda are different from USA although both countries speak English. I have seen keyboards in India to be different as well, even when most Indians use English in business and universities.

__________________
Pranav
Register to Reply
Power-User
Ireland - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Energy Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 197
Good Answers: 17
#22

Re: Which kind of keyboard do you use?

07/10/2008 5:14 PM

Of course Apple have their own interpretation of a keyboard....

__________________
I love deadlines; I love the whooshing sound they make as they pass by. - Douglas Adams
Register to Reply
Anonymous Poster
#24
In reply to #22

Re: Which kind of keyboard do you use?

07/11/2008 12:49 PM

I bet its a Yamaha knockoff.

Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Near Frankfurt am Main, Germany. 50.390866N, 8.884827E
Posts: 17996
Good Answers: 200
#23

Re: Which kind of keyboard do you use?

07/10/2008 7:20 PM

Each European country that I have visited has its own keyboard layout.

If you ever installed windows, it gives you a long list and tells you to pick out the one you want......

I actually use a German keyboard, with all the extra letters needed to write German, but use US WinXP Professional on my desktop and German WinXP Professional on my Laptop!!

__________________
"What others say about you reveals more about them, than it does you." Anon.
Register to Reply
Anonymous Poster
#25
In reply to #23

Re: Which kind of keyboard do you use?

07/11/2008 12:50 PM

Wow!!

Register to Reply
Anonymous Poster
#31
In reply to #23

Re: Which kind of keyboard do you use?

07/24/2008 10:43 AM

That's showing off.

Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - New Member Hobbies - Musician - New Member Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: South-east corner of Spain 50 48 49.24N 2 28 27.70W
Posts: 1508
Good Answers: 31
#32
In reply to #31

Re: Which kind of keyboard do you use?

07/24/2008 2:49 PM

I use a Logitech one with a few fancy buttons to adjust the volume, go to my favorites and surf the net! It's cordless too which is a bonus!

__________________
“It's kind of fun to do the impossible.” Walt Disney
Register to Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: New York City (West End Ave.)
Posts: 68
#33

Re: Which kind of keyboard do you use?

02/16/2009 1:01 PM

Re: online Chinese dictionary: I am in New York City and have some knowledge of the Chinese language from several visits to your country. I was wondering if there are any Chinese language dictionaries online ? Not the dictionary where one inputs the word in pin yin, but one where one inputs the word using a method of making or using Chinese characters ?

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member China - Member - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: CHINA
Posts: 2945
Good Answers: 14
#34
In reply to #33

Re: Which kind of keyboard do you use?

02/16/2009 9:20 PM

wonderful, you can use chinese words directly.

There are lots of online directionaries. either for chinese, or for Eng-Sino expression etc.

http://www.chinafanyi.com/default.asp

http://xh.5156edu.com/

Register to Reply
Register to Reply 34 comments
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Andy Germany (1); Anonymous Poster (7); BabyGuinness (2); bubbapebi (1); Campbell Lighting (1); cnpower (2); Electroman (1); EnviroMan (3); ffej (1); HapE2bhere (1); IanR (1); Mr. Truman Brain (2); nick name (1); nofineprint (1); phoenix911 (2); pranav.herur@yahoo.com (1); PWSlack (1); Scapolie (1); Taganan (1); TexasCharley (2); venkat (1)

Previous in Forum: Problem with writing to Flash using Analog devices blackfin processor   Next in Forum: show hidden file and folder missing
You might be interested in: Industrial Keyboards, KVM Switches, Bar Code Scanners

Advertisement