Lug bolt patterns. Are they standardized?

Hello Laughing Jaguar

I've had a good look around, but cannot locate such a general on-line resource.

Some specialized websites show for some cars.

The table would need to show the 9 pertinent items, and need to be a searchable database:

1. Make
2. Year
3. Model
4. Number of Studs
5. PCD = Pitch Circle Diameter of the Studs
6. Stud Diameter in inches/millimetres
7. Thread type: UNF/Metric - other
8. Stud length projecting from flange face
9. Nut type
   

I do note some light trucks use a 6 stud system.(Land-Rover)

Perhaps you could consider making such a resource, if you have the time.

Kind Regards....

Thanks Sparky

I appreciate your efforts. This request for help is somewhat embarrassing in that I spent almost 20 years in the automobile and truck industries with MB, Porsche, Audi, BMW, Jaguar, Rover, AC, Roots Group and a few boring centuries with Cadillac.

Most of that period was with MD, Porsche and Audi.

It seems somewhat absurd that with the predominance of 4 and 5 bolt patterns, that there would be some effort to standardize made by the SAE who generally influence such things.

I'll check with them.

As for the time needed to compile such information, it's just not available. Too many irons in the fire as it is and I'm short on fuel.

Thanks

L.J.

Hello again Laughing Jaguar

It would appear that many makers deliberately made special stud patterns so that opposition wheels would not fit.

I've been frustrated by the system on more than one occasion, too.

Here's a nice wee fire to keep your irons warm.

Kind Regards....

There is a professional wheel straightening outfit about an hour from here by car (or 30 minutes by motorcycle). They specialize in making auto rims run true again and have a devised a process that rolls the rim to the correct shape. They claim that they can even correct dings in some cast wheels which is quite an achievement given the nature of castings. They use x-ray machines too which suggests that theirs is not an amateur operation

I will check with them as those firms need to know to match rims across a wide variety of makes and models.

Thanks for the fire. Fuel oil prices have tumbled quite a bit in recent times but not so much I'd ignore a gift like that.

Regards

L.J.

I dug the Tire Guide out. It is 350 pages. It is dated 2002, so it's getting out of date. The book covers everything sold in US up to F350s. The book is available at www.tireguides.com The book costs under $20. The book Tells what tire is used on all cars or light duty trucks. Also what the wheel size is as well as lug pattern and tire pressure. There is more information related to what fits what, then any of the other sites suggested here.

Just because you brought up MB. They appear to be the only company to use a lug pattern of 5-112 mm. When you were with them, did anyone happen to mention why?

If there is anything specific I can look up for you, let me know

A while back I was in the tire section of Sam's club. There was no one there that wanted to help me, so I helped myself to a "tire and wheel guide". It is a wealth of tire related information. The paperback is about 150 pages. If you want, I can go dig it out of the pile of valuable items in the back closet. I can then answer any specific questions you have. I do know that there are more lug patterns than you would think. The 4 lug wheels are better with two common ones.

If you do not think the factories do it deliberately, ask yourself this. Why would Ford design a wheel with SEVEN lug nuts on an F150 truck?

Bob on the basis of past experience and education, bolt patterns of that density are common on heavy duty axles where a fully floating bearing hub is employed on each end.

I've been out of the auto industry for many years so I am far from current on the trends in cars, especially with the advent of independent rear suspensions on Detroit built machines. I suspect however, that they too have full floating bearing hubs, especially with the increasing popularity of front wheel and all wheel drive.

The driving force in the initial use of such hubs was to eliminate the bending loads on the drive axle, a factor that can be considerable on a truck. Fully floating hubs have an inner and outer bearing and stay on the banjo housing and allow the axle to be removed often without having to jack up the vehicle or remove the wheel. It is common for those axles to have wide flanges and lots of bolts to help withstand the high shearing loads especially with high displacement engines and lots of low end torque.

Axle failure is a common occurrence on trucks, especially those driven by novice drivers, jack rabbit starts and heavy loads.

There was a time when full floating hubs were a mandatory feature on racing cars such a Sprint cars to insure retention of the wheel assembly in the event of an axle failure. As much as for the safety of the driver as well as the spectators.

Again, I've not been active or interested in that sport for some time so I'm not certain what the rules are today.

L. J.

My Isuzu little pickup truck has 6. Lord knows why...

Bill

Check the axle rating

of course heavy duty needs more lugs, but even that can be negated with true math:

four lugs evenly spaced is ideal for four cylinders, or 8 cylinders, tight pattern large pattern could be directly related to the stroke.

one of the most famous heavy chevy pickups from early 70s had a high compression engine and should have riddeen like a buck horse, but it had eight lugs mathed...

boxer engine cars and four lugs only feed thier 3 main legend (5 mains destroy the purpose of four lugs and four cylinders, boxer or inline)

"the proprietary kill us all at our wallett cuz we can" is todays auto making excuse crushing international economies and planet earth as we know it, like 5 main boxers and inline four cylinders...who cares about lugs.

there is indeed a very common routine after late 90s or mid 90s in an attempt to cut back on resources, I believe it is 5x100.

bgd73, I am not going to pretend that I understand your logic. I don't.

The use of a full floating bearing hub was dictated by the need to insulate the axle from the bending loads imposed by the wheel flexing under heavy loads.

A single bearing housing design does not have the rigidity needed to prevent the axle from flexing and when it breaks, which is inevitable under such conditions, the wheel, brake drum and what ever stub of the axle is left, part company from the vehicle.

And, they don't care one hoot how many nuts or bolts are going along for the ride or how many cylinders are under the hood.

Two speed rear axles and ten speed transmissions multiply the torque to enormous levels regardless of the engine that's attached.

If the machine is a 60,000 pound cement truck, the number of bolts needed will be driven by common sense considerations, not the number of cylinders or their configuration.

L.J.

Hey L.J, a good resource for information like this are the Hollander brand auto/truck part interchange manuals.

http://hollanderinterchange.net/

These folks have a wide variety of manuals with general and specialized coverage, including wheels. I used these at my "ol' daddy's" junkyard growing up in the 60's and 70's, and they are invaluable to the auto parts recyclers. Right expensive, but sometimes these folks will let one make copies, or sell older ones.

I briefly checked out the Hollander web site. Found it interesting for other issues as well.

Thanks

L.J.

Lookie here

Here's something. You should take a look.

http://www.carbibles.com/tyre_bible.html

If you are attempting to figure out which wheels may be interchangable between auto brands, remember that in addition to bolt patterns, there are things called rim width and offset. There is also another parameter (I don't know what it's called) that determines how much clearance is available for the braking system.

i would try looking on www.tirerack.com

there you can look at rims that are compatible with a certain vehicle, and look at their specs.

rim width and offset can be altered by wheel spacers as well

I would suspect an after market wheel manufacturer might have lug patterns for many vehicles at least for the popular models.

Hi, I am the cnc programmer and head of the engineering dept. here at Budnik Wheels. I might be able to help. There are not really any websites that i have ever seen that list what manufactures use what bolt patterns. Many manufactures use totally different bolt patterns for different cars and have even changed the bolt pattern on a sinlge model from one year to the next. Are you looking for what wheels are available for a specific car? or are you looking for the list of manufactures that use a specific bolt pattern? perhaps something totally different?

I suppose you want the bolt circle size for each wheel per # of lugs. This would necessarily depend upon the axle used per vehicle year or model.

An ambitious project...