UK-Style 240 Volt Electrics

A lot of UK electronic goods (DVD player, TV etc) now carry a warning (in the manual) to unplug when not in use. Supposedly in case your gadget gets zapped in a lightning storm. I guess it's possible, but I don't know anyone it's happened to. Wiring colours also changed in the UK not long ago ( we got 'harmonized' with Europe).

I have repaired at least two computers that were indirectly struck by lightning (both had dial-up modems that were zapped via the phone lines). Both of these were in the Sacramento Valley and foothills, rural settings. We have very little lightning here, compared to other places I've been, so I would expect damage to be more common in places where lightning is more common, as in the tropics...

I'd have thought a strike depends on the vicinity of other victims. eg - if I lived adjacent to a big building, like a church, I'd probably be saved by act of god, so to speak. On the other hand someone living on a remote plain with occasional lightning has a good chance of being struck. Phone lines makes sense for multiple people geting zapped - good point. I've no idea how safe my (buried) fibre optic is.

There's a fair number of web sites where people seek advice about repairing the TV after a strike - surprised me, I'd have thought it would get toasted ! Ball lightning thru a window might neccesitate the decorators ;

Come on! You've got to know that fiber optic is glass and/or plastic, neither of which conduct electricity. A direct, or even indirect, hit to the electronics on the other end of your fiber could conceivably send a flash of light strong enough to burn out the sensor in your fiber modem, but I can't imagine it causing any damage to the computer or anything else in the house.

You are right about the rural nature of the locations. The surprising thing is that wherever there are copper phone lines, there are almost always power lines higher on the same pole, and commonly a ground wire above those. Neither of the two cases I remember had any problems with their electrical sysgtem...

Electrical grids typically have lightning suppression, telephone systems typically do not. When a pole is struck everything gets energized, electrical system lightning ancestors protect the grid, some of the excess charge goes to ground, which is really flaky pole to pole for far to many reasons to go into here. That leaves the telephone line conducting the strike energy to ground via the ground at the house, again probably not a great ground. Enter lightning, exit electronics.

Hello Dances with Trees:

Good explanation!

I am surprised the number of people why do not take Lightening through the phone junction seriously! I have always from the very start had Surge protection including phone cable/connection. No one else I know has any form of protection on the phone line. I have given up 'hammering my point home' now. I just hope they do not learn the hard way! Though I sometimes wish they did. I could send a card as they are standing looking at the house burning saying "told you so"!

Take care and have a wonderful holiday!...........................

In reply to answer 1.

I live in the chiltern hills in buckinghamshire England. and we do suffer from lightning strikes on a regular occurrence. It is quite frequent that wall socket outlets get blown off of the wall in a thunderstorm. On one occasion some ladies were having an under-ware party when the thunderstorm came and blew the sockets off the wall.

on another occasion the television cable burnt a trail all the way down the inside of someones house when the aerial was hit.

Because we are living on a clay and chalk soil we have to have a iron ground stakes planted under the ground to earth out and equalise the electrical potential of the earth and neutral wires. It is becoming a more regular thing now that all of the piped services are being replaced with plastic pipe instead of the steel pipe.

With the plastic you loose the electrical ground back to the supply station.

Hi Steve,

Don't worry, no one actually bothers to turn anything off over here, the added power consumption helps us to keep warm in winter.
It's just that over safe thinking...turn everything off then it can't catch on fire in the middle of the night and burn the house down.
There are a few anally retentive old gits who go around last thing at night switching off or unpluggeing everything, checking all the doors are locked and putting the cat out.
BTW I don't think a switch in the 'off' position will stop a bolt of lightning.

Del

Oh, and 240v means you must keep your tin foil hat on at all times, honest .

I drain down the CH each night just to be on the safe side. Calling a plumber to fix a frozen/burst pipe would be jolly expensive.

Hello Del,

You are right, the 'off' position on a switch will not stop lightening. My friends TV and things that could be reached were 'turned of at the plug' and they were blown to pieces when the lightening struck!

Take care and have a wonderful holiday......................

Hi Del

The tin foil folk are hard at it over here, they have been adding a layer of tar with a strip of tin foil to the bottom of electrical poles all over the place. They add a strip three feet long to almost every wood pole. Yes I have too much time on my hands, stopping to measure, I really need to find a job...

No one knows who is doing this, and my friends at the local utility get a great giggle out of the whole thing.

Have a safe and happy holiday season.

You don't need to disconnect anything, actually. The reason for all the switches is just precautionary, nothing more. Take note though, that lightning strikes in this part of the world are among the world's highest.

By the way, if you're living in one of Kuala Lumpur's hillside condominiums, look for alternative accomodations ASAP. The country's previous Prime Minister, Dr. Mahathir Mohamed, was more interested in building monuments than in infrastructure development, so many of those hillside homes have no proper drainage. Some of them don't even have proper piling work done. In the event of several days of continuous heavy rain, common during this time of the year, severe erosion and landslides are commonplace. If severe enough, they may (and do) result in the building collapsing.

Yes, some friends of mine live out in the Ampang area near where the slide happened last week. Not good.

I had a look at my place and I think I am ok, not really on a hillside, more on top of a rise.

Hi Steve.S,

From U.S to Asia? Having nice time in Malysia? Nice beaches and Twin Towers. Sunny days in winter. Enjoy your stay and switch ON/Off your gadgets.

Wouldn't switching your TV off at the plug prevent that then?

Hello Steve S.:

I think the instructions with the TV antenna, (Is it) and anything to do with a computer, makes sense not to leave them on if there is a lightening storm around. It has nothing to do with the power that is actually used.

On the other hand, it may be that in Kuala Lumpur the power supply may not be constant and or it not being a 'Rich' country, it may be asking people to save where ever possible?

I am usually in the UK and we did not always have switched sockets etc. That is only in the last 35 years or so. Unless some can tell me specifically why we use switched sockets on every outlet, I would be interested?

Take care and have a wonderful holiday..........................

Maybe it has more to do with shoddy equipment than with 240volt? I usually turn as much off as possible even here in Japan where the electrics is more like in america.

anyway i find it very convinient that every outlet has a switch.

Hello Epke

You are right, shoddy workmanship for sure!

Take care, happy holiday.................

Switching off also reduce the "standby power" that can amount to a large amount when millions of little device are sleeping.

In North America, we don't worry too much about it because the energy is cheap and plentiful (for now). We also spend a good part of the year heating the houses which uses up these losses. In areas where air conditioning is required all year long, the cost of these losses is doubled by the AC having to evacuate this surplus heat.

Finally, I find the switches very good as unplugging an appliance every day shortens the life of its cord ans is more likely to result in short circuit from pulled wires in the plug. We all know that many people pull mostly on the wire when they disconnect an appliance. Also, the receptacles have a limited number of plugging cycle after which the contact loosen.

For all these reasons, I do not unplug anything unless it is going to be off for a long time or I need the receptacle for something else.

If I had switches for the receptacles, I would use the one for the toaster simply because it is the most dangerous household appliance together with the stove. I would not bother with the TV or the computer as most of the lightening strike damages come from the telephone line, antenna, or cable TV.

On a UK 13 amp plug, it's pretty much impossible to pull it out by the cord. Cathode Ray Tube TV's used to be the biggest domestic fire hazard (Dust ingress).

There's a cable grip in the neck of the plug to minimize cable movement. Varous adaptions exist for elderly/infirm/ham-fisted;

Hello Kris,

Have just put the computer on and have just joined the discussion. This is the first of about 6 of your posts so you may have put something in the other posts at odds with what I write.....OK?

Just to say some plugs are hard to get in and even harder to remove! It is nice if the designer puts a 'first finger groove' on each side of the plug as it gives some grip?

The newer type of moulded on plug look like they can take some 'agro'', but I grew up when we had to put the plugs on every new item! And I know just how fragile some of those connections cane be so pulling one out by the lead or cable is the last thing I would do!!! I did do it once but is was a cheap plug where the pins could move about a bit, and I trod on the cable by mistake which pulled it out. But in most cases that would not be possible as the plug has to be pulled out at right angles to the wall, or the pins will jam.

It is a lot of words for such a little thing (as the actress said to the vicar)! Sorry I could not resist it!

Take care.............

Hi BB, that's cool - it can be tricky catching up on who said what/where/when in a thread.

Like you say, modern plugs (UK at least) are pretty robust. My current house was an electrical nightmare when I moved in (little old lady had lived there since, probably, electricity was first supplied to houses. OK, I exagerate slightly). There were 2-pin, 5-amp, wall sockets, and all sorts. It was Bakelight heaven. Cable was all RVI (vulcanized rubber mashed with fibres around the wire. It goes all brittle with age).

A high percentage of stuff comes with 'moulded' plugs now, but I recall the days of no plug fitted at all. Retailers don't mention enough the need to destroy a plug if you cut one off an appliance (as junk), lest some poor idiot plugs it into the wall. Heavy duty pliers or a hammer will do the job.

I too had the same question and all the already given answers are good. But I got the real one! With my chubby fingers as I pulled out what we might call a dryer or range plug and I didn't turn off the cute little switch. Well as you may guess I got my chubby fingers off the plastic and on to the plug and had a very shocking experience! I like the switches now and would not have a plug with out them no matter were I am. Shock therapy is not one of the things on my to-do list any more!

That's why the UK plugs now have the live & neutral terminals insulated part way up so that you can't touch them until they are disconnected.

Regards.

As far as UK style Electric fittings are concerned; we in Pakistan prefer UK or German styles

Most are with switch.

My son lately sent me a gadget for me & remembered to send also a Double wall socket each switched.

I rate both the best in the world.

You also will notice all the UK Plugs are fuse fitted 10/12 Amps.

I read a warning in a USA Equipment Users Manual:

"... there is only one chance in your life ... "

With lightening I lost 2 PCs' Modems & 1 USB+FireWire PC Card; my daughter got all the system smoked.

Pray for your safety all the time; as there is one & only one chance for you in your & loved ones'life.

Have a good day & Happy X-Mas.

You also will notice all the UK Plugs are fuse fitted 10/12 Amps.

Uh ?

You can get a range of fuses ( from 2 to 13 amp). Modern plugs have a fuse holder to allow easy swap over. For some idiot reason, many gadgets come with a 13 amp fuse (most household wiring circuits for socket outlets are 30 amp) , when a low amp fuse is safer (eg for a supply to a table lamp). 'Moulded' (ie splash/water proof) plugs are more common now, but they aren't as convenient to re-use on other appliances. The Earth pin is longer, so it makes contact before live/neutral. Unless the earth pin inserts and opens some small gates, you can't fully insert the plug. There are work-around if you're testing a wall socket (). The paranoid/worried can but plastic blanking' fittings to temporarily push into unused wall outlets. Most people have a surge protection distribution board between socket and computer gear. I have a 'smart' adaptor plug, that turns all the peripherals off when I turn the PC off. Saves me bending down to the socket (builders place them idiotically low on the wall).

The fuse in the plug is rated for the cable from it, most consumer devices have an fuse of a much lower rating for the protection of the appliance. As for switched outlets, most modern electronics consume a small amount of power when plugged in so in terms of energy efficiency it best to isolate them when not in use, to turn them off at the socket is far simpler and tidier than yanking out a plug.

Not all wiring regs make sense - you're correct about fuses being rated for the cable, but it makes more sense to use a fuse appropriate to the device. I've seen countless devices fitted with 13 amp fuses, wheras a lower rated fuse would be safer. In theory, application of diversity would allow somebody to hook up an electric oven with 30 amp cable. They'd look a bit of a twerp on Christmas day when all elements are on and the house burns down because the cabler melted. Devices that only have 'standby' and not 'off' are crap. An e-on powerdown device saves a lot of the wasted current on a computer set-up. The only point of pulling the plug on most items is (supposedly) to stop them getting zapped by lightning.

Hello Kris,

You have echoed the posts I sent in today. Why fuse for the cable? Fuse for the product. And in such a way as to allow replacement if the fuse is blown!

See my post on lightening below.................

Take care and have a wonderful holiday....................

Hi BB,

It's the wonderful mysteries of IEE wiring regs. They contain a number of oddities (like 'diversity' which I mentioned somewhere. The right fuse will stop cable meltdown etc. Even the issue of who is legally competent to do electrical work is a bit murky. Most houses have trip out devices on the 'consumer unit' - the main fuseboard for the house, just inbound of the meter. Obviously if a plug fuse blows, you need to figure out why before replacing it (faulty appliance/ inappropriate fuse etc). A lot of plugs have a 13 amp fuse fitted, which is a nonsense for most gadgets. PAT testing (Portable appliance testing) is an annual safety requirement for appliances in public places. Most houses have a least one badly wired plug, simply because whoever wired it didn't do it right (too much exposed bare wire, loose/too-tight cable grip etc). This thread is timely, since many people have Christmas tree lights that are a safety hazard.

Hello Kris,

Yes this post is timely indeed!

And there may be something wrong with my wiring as I keep having to compliment you on what you write!!!

Take care and have a wonderful holiday..........................

Hi again BB,

'cos it's nearly Christmas, I gave you a GA for your #25 (just now). Can I have one back for echoing it ?

On Christams day, I'm goint to inspect all new electrical stuff and see if I can find any ready-made fuse errors. Bet I get at least one over-rated fuse. In fact, I know I'll have a short fuse by the time the whole Christmas thing is over !

Hello Kris,

'Time to be merry and happy', more like a time to be grumpy and frustrated Xmas! Hey, don't you go and blow a fuse or we will have to put a new one in.......UUmmmm, not sure where it fits, now, lets see, no, not there has to a flat round here somewhere! 'Hoomans' just need to calm down cause I have never replaced a fuse in one! I have this really nice lo-o-o-nng screwdriver though!!!

Take care Kris...............................

Regards.

Your detailed description of UK Plug & Socket is informative.

This is the reason that UK fittings are more safe than others.

< .. (builders place them idiotically low on the wall). ..>

This was also practiced in Pakistan but now it is well out of the reach of kids [approximately at shoulder height ] which also helped PC users by chance.

I have RFI Filter in addition to surge protection in my fittings.

You may always have good ideas to make your distribution board more safe & convenient.

Additionally it has as posted by Nigh in #19 :

< .. live & neutral terminals insulated part way up so that you can't touch them until they are disconnected.>

Some other countries have also adopted this safety point.

In 1950s UK products had double-switch-double Fuse installed. But Fuseology was not well developed &

even double fuse protection could not protect. Now it upto the tech-know-how of the user to use a proper fuse,

not only amperage rating but type of fuse most suited, slo-blo, medium, fast, semiconductor rated etc.

Regards

Hello Haajee:

With ref' to your post, yes the sockets were often fitted low near the 'skirting board. Silly!. Now in most places I have seen they are placed more sensibly at waist height.

I was a builders son and a builder myself and it was the 'easy way out' to have the sockets low. It was easier to plaster and the cables could go behind the skirting. But far from practical.

Take care and have a wonderful holiday.......................

And the environmenal impact of leaving everything plugged and and using small amounts of power? Turn off, unplug. Use nothing you dont need to.

Steve

Hello Andy,

I have not been to many other countries but, have been to a few on the Continent (Europe). Now I may be wrong and often am, but, even though the EU (European Union) has time to legislate on 'straight banana's! They do not seem to have improved the continental power supply at all! I do not know how the US supply works, but what you say about the UK is true. It does have the safest power system in the world bar none. And it get incrementally improved all the time.

GA for you sir for a clear explanation!

Take care and have a wonderful holiday.......................

The European system is poor and regulation is even poorer, I was shocked when I first moved here......sort of got used to it now.....but it has many areas that can kill, even when correctly installed.....no regs to define on which pin is live or neutral.....no shutters to cover the live and the neutral....holes large enough for small fingers and objects in small hands.....plugs in many (not all strangely enough!!) countries can be inserted in two orientations.....no requirement for an ELCB.........all devices hang on 16 amp breakers and no extra fuses, so a lamp that takes 1 amp has a fault to earth of of 14 amps can kill anyone that touches it......wonderful......the list goes on and on.

The one only plus is that every house gets as standard 3 phase power, very useful if you want to use some powerful motors....

Hello Andy,

Thank you for your reply post Andy.

I really cannot understand why the continent (Europe) does not have a safer system.

I went on holiday on my motor bike to a 'geete' (not sure of the spelling) in northern France and the supply to this house was completely new. However, I could have the grill, or the oven on. NOT BOTH! And the same thickness of 'normal house wire' was used for the cooker as well as for the plug sockets. I know because not all sockets were fitted and bare wires were sticking out. (Make you jump in the night if you brushed past one)? The wiring was new and fine for the sockets but the cooker should have extra strong cable, and it never had it. But the consumer unit was 50 years old. IT, and the wire being too thin to the cooker was the reason the elctric would fail. I was there two days and moved to Germany to finish my holiday! I cant recall having any problems there. I know I had to ride to the geete owners house 3 km away three times. That was enough hence the move to Germany.

Take care, and have a wonderful holiday!

Hello Andy,

One thing I will say is, I think more thought should be given on the size of fuse fitted in the factory, to everyday things line irons to tooth-brushes. I find that quite often there is a 13 amp fuse, where a 3 or 4 amp would be safer. The reason I think this is done, is because there could possibly be a need to replace a 'blown' fuse more often.

The items I refer to mainly are chargers where the charger is in the wall socket, (in the US, convenience receptacle) and a thin lead is then connected to the item to charge. I see no sense in putting more the a 4 or 6 amp fuse. They still work and do not get so hot. At least that is my experience.

Of course a fuse can only be replaced by a smaller one in very few of these chargers.

And a gripe here:...............

WHY oh WHY, do manufacturers not get together like the computer industry has, (to some extent) to make products that can utilise the same charger as another item.

As an example, I have shavers, hair clippers, radios, torches, phones, power tools, and various connectors from the keyboard, monitor, mouse etc...........ALL take or use different, often fitted chargers, which do not allow any other product to be charged as they fit directly to a computer for instance, and do not have 'standard' connector types so do not fit anything else.

This is especially true of mobile phones. Not just each make but often several phones from the same seller/supplier have different chargers. I would say I have about 20 chargers of one kind or another. That could easily be reduced to 5. It is not rocket science, just needs a whole lot of people to complain that all the chargers are a pain in the a$se, cost space and add weight to a product that can be a quarter the weight of a charger they use!

That is just in the UK. I dread to think how much more it costs to send something have way round the world which is in a box which is larger and heavier than it need be?

I am looking at 8 chargers used for computer peripherals. Often some have the charger cable coming out of the top or single pin end of the plug, and others are opposite and will not fit side by side so you have to leave a socket space blank with nothing in. Of course I am talking about the UPS gang sockets.

Sorry, rant over!!!!!............

This is meant for all really not just you Andy! OK?

Take care and have a wonderful holiday!......................

You are correct about the fusing, but at least a fuse is there!!! In many countries there is none.

Its also up to the user to place the correct size of fuse in the plug, if he is too stupid not to know, well there has been enough literature around in the UK telling people how to know the fuse size for a particular wattage, many simply do not read it!!

What you don't know can kill you!!!

You can lead a horse to water, but he has to drink all on his own!!

I'm with you on the chargers......

Ok, I have three prong plugs, and outlets with switches, but where is the fuse? And how does one go about checking/changing it to match the load? I also have a standard breaker panel as in the US..

Hello Steve S.:

If you mean you have some items with plugs already fitted? You cannot change anything on these. And they are very safe. On other items you need to fit a plug or, you sometimes have a plug with a fuse change box that clips partly out of the plug and then you can change or put a new fuse in. And then snaps back into the plug very tightly.

Hope this helps.............

Take care and have a wonderful holiday...............

OHHH.... Gotcha. The fuse is in the plug not the outlet.... I thought you guys were saying that there was a fuse in the outlet. Seemed a bit difficult to have to change fuses to match load whenever you plugged something in.....

In the US the fuse (if present) is typically on the internals of the device, not in the plug. For instance on my guitar amp, the fuse is on the back of the amp near where the power cord attaches to the chasis.

Hello Steve S.:

Yes I know what you mean when you say the fuse is in some connected items. But it has to be safer to have a fuse.......remote.......from the item you are connecting if possible?

I do not know the American system other than it is or was 120 Volts. I am not saying any of it is 'bad' or 'wrong' per se, but the systems and rules do seem to alter with State address?

All my Relatives live there, I am the only one here in the UK. But I also spend time in Europe. No Relatives have had problems with the US system and, I would suggest, unless you were an Engineer you would probably not realise the 'short comings' of the US power supply?

Take care and I appreciate your reply post............

Happy holiday.........................

Hello Kris,

This is weird. I was looking for pics like the ones you show above!

Very good idea to show people who have not seen the UK designed Sockets and especially the spur. I have the Fridge on a spur. Ideal for something that will not be removed as per the use of a normal switched socket.

People take the design of things like sockets and plugs, usually ready fitted now, for granted.................But, they all have had a lot of thought and reasoning put into the design, for ease of use, strength, and safety of course.

I remember 'the old days when my Dad run a 1 HP motor from a light socket. Frightening!

GA to you sir.

Have the most wonderful holiday..........................

Thanks babybear,

It all comes up on google image fairly easy. For those outside the UK, I recently used a company who were brilliant. I only needed a couple of light fittings, but service was excellent etc etc. Credit where it's due ; http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/ . I've no connection to them, just a happy customer.

Your dads motor connection doesn't sound tooo bad, though I'd have been sniffingy the air for that certain smell ! Once saw a guy in a workshop ausing several appliances at once, all run off the same overhead power cable. The thing was smokin' so much we renamed him.

Have a sooperdy-dooperdy holiday .

Kris

Regards.

The "E" wire is a little longer than "N" & "Ph" wires.

A tip from Siemens when I was working for them:

" Keep E Wire a little longer so that it breaks only after the other 2 wires are broken"

+

Yep, top tip.

Hello Andy,

What you don't know can kill you!!!

perhaps that should be >>>>> "Watt you don't know can kill you"? <<<<<

Take care my friend................

Regards

< It's The Current That Kills >

Of course it is current but Hi-V @ Hi-Power is altogether FATAL !

It may be true for house-hold supply, but not EHT like 10,000V.

If it is Power-line voltage it not only burn but kill altogether.

If you mean Hi-Impedence supplies like TV /Monitor supplies it may not kill but will surely burn the skin badly.

It is true that the environments decide the current through human body, but voltage has the decisive factor, as human body

in any case has finite resistance even in even well dry conditions.

Have a good day ! Happy X-Mas to all !!!!!!

Wow. What is obvious in all this is just how incredibly backward our electrical norms are here in the US. I've never been to the UK and really knew only what you said about the shuttered outlets. The rest of this is new to me. You'd think we just now discovered electricity given the current sophistication of our electrical norms.

Thanks for your very informative post. A GA to you, Mr. Germany.

In my home town in SA we had 100 V DC power supply and only converted to 220/240V AC in 1955. During the switchover the town were told to switch off the plug when not in use. On a question why it was said that it is to prevent the electricity from leaking on to the floor and cause shocks.

As it happened a 11 year old girl was shocked to death when she touched the areal of a radio with the switch in the on and afterwards the rule were applied vigorously (The reason were actually incorrect grounding).

I am sure that if one investigate one will find an un-repealed law or bylaw stating that the switch should be turned off.

Maybe it is still true for newer legislation but I think lately the emphasis turned to earth leakage protection. Before that it was common to use a bayonet connector in the light socket and run an appliance from that. These days you cannot buy it anymore.

In SA we still use 35 Amp 3 prong plugs and not this flimsy stuff. I think that also remained from the 110 V days.

Where I live we get terrible thunder storms and I remove the plug whenever not in use for safety sake.

My friend house was build on a Dolerite rocky outcrop. During a eclectic storm sparks jump from the telephone line running down the wall onto the wall. (really scaring).

Hello Hendrik,

This is turning into a very interesting thread! Thanks for your post, I have learned a lot.

You mentioned about removing the plugs in a thunder storm?

That is sooo right!

A friend here, went to bed and there was a lightening storm. She had a direct hit on her house at 03:00. She was asleep until the explosion. It blew every switch and sockets out of the wall! And anything connected was set on fire, the fridge, freezer, TV radio, electric fan heater. A really scary thing to go through!

Take care and have a wonderful holiday!..................

Hi BB,

There you see the danger for those computer users who say they like to leave there computers on 24/7.

I have some quite nasty electrical storms coming through this time of the year, so when I am finished with the computer I have one power point plug to pull out for all the computer equipment and one telephone line plug, then I am always sure No smoking remains will greet me. I would do the same for the television but the wall socket is behind the sideboard, at least I use a radio controlled power point there which takes care of all the power consumption when the units are "off" unfortunately it will not protect the TV from a lightning strike.

Happy Christmas to you all.

Hello garth,

Yes the 24/7 is not a good idea really. I could be 24/7 but pull mine every night.

I am surprised no one (as far as I know) has put one of the really fast 'trip' switches between the computer and the socket? I have in the form of a UPS. But I have always been sensible like that.......The fool that I am!

We have them now rather than the old 30.20.15 Amp fuse, on the mains power in box. They are instant.

Anyway, least you are trying to stay safe! It is all about piece of mind as much as anything?

Take care and have a wonderful holiday!

Remember that devices must be over fused, to handle the initial quick start up current.

Have a look here ; http://www.bussmann.com/library/bifs/2042.PDF

What think ye ? I'd never paid much thought to fuses being designed as over-rated. Does that negate your point about choosing a bigger fuse than needed ?

Hello Kris,

interesting stuff about the designing of a fuse, but small beer. Check this out.........

As Crocordile Dundee said "fuse?.......No, this is a fuse"! The books on the right are normal paperbacks, for scale........

Take care and can I wish all who read this bit of silliness a very happy Xmas!

No needed in the UK as the plug fuses are "Slo-Blo" for that exact reason....

I am a great believer in lightning conductors, which is why my house has a complete system.

If her house had such a system, the likelihood that the lightning could get into the electrical system is very, very remote........

An old southern German saying " He/she saves money no matter what it costs!"

You can apply this saying to many, many things........

Hello Andy,

you are so right when it comes to an external conductor. I think she bought the house 'ex Council' you know? So it was a semi and neither had a lightening protection . One left it to the other, without talking about it! It would have been better if, on the sale deeds, the house had to have an external earth or ground before it was sold...........Perhaps that would have cost £100?

In one hand £100---In the other---death. Which would you choose.

I always get the pi%s taken because I walk along the street and can see potential danger ares on cabling, street lights etc. Well, you only get one chance here and that chance can be a terrible thing if you are burned or injured in other way.

I pulled out the cable from the reel the other day because I knew I would be using it for at least a couple of hours. My friend asked why I did it. I said if you use it fully wound on a larger spool (as I have) it can over heat and catch fire. It happened to me once and it aint going to again!

See...........I am full of 'good ideas'! Problem is no one takes any notice! LOL!

Take care andy..........................Happy holiday!

Regards

< ...a 11 year old girl was shocked to death when she touched the areal of a radio ...>

In those days Radio sets were made to work on AC & DC so Isolating transformer could not be used.

If you used non-polarised fittings [2 pin fittings] & had not cared of N & Ph

there was always a chance of shock..

In 1950s most under-developed countries had DC power & converted to AC in phases.

In 1st phase Rotary-Converters were used for DC Power consumers, later their DC fans

were converted to AC by just using a Bridge Rectifier, & long after full conversion

to AC power was attained.

Still some problems remained in "Blue-Print" exposers which used DC Fluorescent Tube Lights.

Simple rectification didn't solved the matter & high voltage DC Capacitors were needed to

remove ripples for proper exposer & at time Hi-capacity DC capacitors were not available.

Have a good day & Happy X-Mas to all

I think you are in a tropical area, and hence likely to sweat. 240V is infact a high enough voltage to be fatal when you are conducting. may be that is the reason why the gadgets have the switches so that you cut off the phase. In a certain cases, especially in computers etc, I have come across cases where the floating neutral has killed it.

And if the earthing is faulty, at this voltage, it may be fatal, not only for the gadget.

This is a very interesting thread as I am in the US and find that most electrical systems here are not as safe as should be. However, it is often found that the minimum safety codes (which could be safer) are not followed.

Someone mentioned that the 240v is used as to supply the same power as a 110/120 volt system. Does this mean 240V at 10amps is equal to 110 volts at 10amps? or 5 amps at 240V? This system is very interesting and I would love to learn more about it

I love the idea of the switches in at the socket as this could save me quite a bit of money as the average TV consumes power at all times and I have multiple TV's in my home not to mention the clock on the stove, micro and fridge!

And the safety mechanisms built in to prevent children pushing items into the socket.... THAT IS WONDERFUL!

BTW: As for having 20 chargers in your house for different items .... It is crazy but it requires the consumer to replace a bad charger with the name branded charger thus creating profit for the company in replacement sales. Who can blame them? I have chargers that I dont know what they belong to but refuse the pitch them as I may need them in the future

The power station burned down and it the 240V AC grid was extended to include our town.

The houses and distribution lines were wired for 110volt DC with these massive 35Amp plugs. They only changed the meters and if I remember correctly . all appliances had to be changed. I think light bulbs and some radios too. (SA only had TV in 197x)

At that stage stoves, geysers, heaters etc were powered by coal. And fridges were evaporation cooled or fired by a paraffin flame.

My dad had a 16mm / 110 Volt projector and a 110volt wire recorder running on a pig (DC motor / 110volt alternator - it grunted like a pig ) was the easiest to convert with a transformer.

As a 11 year old the old DC meters was nice to play with, one had to remove the resistor and it could be run on a 6 Volt battery. The 12Volt wind charger really made it go.

Maybe the UK is safety conscious, but it is better to be safe than sorry.

About 10p each. I used to get them at Woolworth's.

Those good old days when woolworths was making profit.

Remember it

Trouble is, they wound up with debts of about 10 times annual profit. The writing was on the wall a long time back, but the so called managers/bankers ignored it.

"About 10p each. I used to get them at Woolworth's."

A store that will be sadly missed.

Sure is.

Even worse - wait till the other big names who've clung on 'til Christmas have to fess-up in the new year. Their creditors and the banks will take them to the wall. The only thing missing on the high street will be tumbleweed.

A store that will be sadly missed.

Dunno why they were pretty crap to be honest! The banks are holding out till Christmas with other big names, a time that retail stores have the most money, and then they will take them out. 2009 looks pretty tragic, I'm gonna go buy a gun!