In my youth I was told to go to the personnel department (that's what HR was called in those days) with any problems I had.
I was still naive then, so I went and told them my problem....
I ended up being told off because it had 'upset' them .

I rapidly learned...avoid HR at all costs.
HR was one of the major factors in leaving my last job...I stood up for the guys who worked for me instead of towing the HR line.

Del

I had a similar experience but with a different outcome. I went to the personnel department with a problem i had and ended getting chewed out by my manager for not coming to him first. He was a so called Operations and Methods (O&M) specialist, which me he knew nothing about everything, and was a total flake, hated by everyone.

I told him my problem was with him and then went back to the personnel department and reported his actions, seems they did not like him much either. I did get some space for a while, and eventually I got promoted to another department.

In my long career path, that was the only personnel department who actually cared.

Good one. Scott Adams couldn't have said it any better.

The element, tentatively named administratium, has no protons or electrons and thus has an atomic number of 0. However, it does have one neutron, 125 assistant neutrons, 75 vice neutrons and 111 assistant vice neutrons, which gives it an atomic mass of 312. These 312 particles are held together by a force that involves the continuous exchange of meson-like particles called morons.

These used to be held together by one worker neuron, but that was repelled off by unaminous consent, and was then replaced with the more expensive particle moron.

I don't have a problem with the word resource. If you look up the relevant definitions you get:

• In economic theory, factors of production (or productive inputs) are the resources employed to produce goods and services. Here the quantity of output is modeled as a function of the amount of each input employed.
  en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_(economics)
• In project management terminology, resources are required to carry out the project tasks. They can be people, equipment, facilities, funding, or anything else capable of definition (usually other than labour) required for the completion of a project activity. ...
  en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_(project_management)
• Something that one uses to achieve an objective, e.g. raw materials or personnel; A person's capacity to deal with difficulties
  en.wiktionary.org/wiki/resource
• A person, thing, or action needed for living or to improve the quality of life.
  www.ec.gc.ca/water/en/info/gloss/e_gloss.htm

Now, if any of those definitions actually offend you, then I would suggest that you could appeal under the grounds of "Political Correctness".

However, I abhor political correctness. I think we need to focus on being less politically correct and work more on improving our personal tolerance to not be offended every time someone states something or states anything for that matter.

HR may be the most egregious, but ALL departments have their shortcomings.

@Bricktop:

I thought that I was the only one left on the planet who remembered this snip from the Journal of Irreproducible Results. My gosh, this goes back some years...

Great thread, everyone.

So, when are the chickens going to organize?

"So, when are the chickens going to organize?"

They already have ... but they're so good we didn't notice.

"Getting things done around here is like the mating of elephants. It is done at a high level, with much roaring and screaming, and it takes 3 years to produce results."

Captain Harry Robson, Chaplain, 1 Bn 179 Inf 45 Inf Bde, sometime in the late 1970's.

Capt. Robson wasn't your typical military chaplain. He was the only chaplain in the US Army qualified on the 90mm recoiless rifle. He went through the training and the qualification fire to experience what the soldiers had to go through.

I remember seeing this quote posted in an armory I went to for some kind of training. He wasn't a part of the chain of command, but it got to see it up close. I've seen where it applies to business as well as the military.

Had an interesting event.

Lloyds audit wanted to see history of training records for key staff. They were unable to provide any evidence (aparently my complete file was lost) including 25 certificates endorsed by internal training courses and company funded training, let alone my external qualifications. (Only a year before, I had provided a complete update to HR for a "competancy review" by some external consultant.)

It took HR 15 months to approach me for "whatever resume material I had" so they could get ready for the next audit.

I just provided them with a copy of my resume, including the application forms and cover notes for a job at another employer, including an overview of my time at teh current employer.

That was duly filed by them (no review at all) until it surfaced during the follow up audit. They proudly produced the extensive dossier which the auditor then proceded to examine. He commented to HR "That looks rather impressive." and handed it back to them without comment. (later he and I had a good laugh about it at lunch.)

HR have since added more training records, but the original still remains.

Sometimes they're a joke, and yet they are the same people who are expected to support employees grievances and review within the company.

In these current economic times they SHOULD be earning their pay by making sure that companies persue fair and appropriate process when dealing with employees, but they seem to have lost the plot.

No, HR's responsibilty during an economic down turn is to cover their own bums while playing follow the manager by throwing productive employees under the save a dime bus.

The sad fact is I doubt this is the exception. Lately I've seen an upturn in unhappy employees because new policies within the company are unfair at best and unkind in general but HR turns the other way because they are afrade for their jobs if they stand up to the managers taking advantage of the current depression.

Come on everybody, enough complaining about HR personnel.

You've met them, what other job would they be good for?

something anything in government

During my Run in with HR i noticed that they are just an outlet of the management team and their main purpose is to get a pat on the back from the management team, not the concerns of the employee.

But it heavily depends on the Head HR manager.

I've found that they are used by mid sized coimpanies as a buffer between employees and upper management. The more distance between the more excuses.

Think of it: I have yet to meet an HR manager (or lower staff) who is an engineer. Most have law degrees with some HR specialisation (this shows that the primary function of HR is to know how to avoid and protect the firm from lawsuits, especually when firing).

Actually, employees and management have very different expectations from HR (in approximate order of significance, or perhaps no order):

employees: 1. resolve work-related problems, 2. protect from manager abuse, 3. help with promotions outside the dept., 4. offer advice

management: 1. fire people by the book (so that it doesn't backfire), 2. short-list candidates for hiring, to pass on to the manager making the decision, 3. keep track of hiring (and keep managers in check), 4. report employee grievances to concerned managers, so that they can take care of things, 5. make sure to keep things impersonal ("I'd love to give you a raise, but HR is calling the shots" v. "we'd love to help, but this is really between you and your manager" etc, sounds familiar?), 6. generally provide a sence of fairness and caring, to appease the crowds (just like what passes for democracy nowadays)

Naturally the loyalties of the HR lie with management exclusively. Workers join unions. But if you are somewhere inside the management ladder (as we mostly are), then you just have to be diplomatic or downright two-faced.

By the way: Many employees (as in: many people) are no saints. Managers are not by definition bad people. S**t happens. HR does have a difficult job if/ when it actually tries to do it.

Enough ranting. My story (one of them):

A few monts ago i was interviewd for a manager's position in a steel-mill (RC-reinforcement). The HR guy looked at me straight in the eyes the whole time (hours, incl. the factory tour). Cold blue penetrating eyes, poker face. He couldn't smile even when he tried to. I'm not easy to crack, but this guy gave me the creeps.

Highlight: When we where talking about how we would have to expand the skilled workforce, he said: "we'll need to buy some more people". He immediately realised that it came accross as really raw (was he buying me?) and corrected himself...

...but why did he?

Surely, if humans are resources, they can be bought, right?

Creepy, but true. Friends, it's never too late to stop being resources (yes, managers are resources too...)

Cheers

I believe human is indeed really good resources. everyone is useful.

as to hr department, its depends on its efficiency where it placed. some company has higher efficiency, some not. however this departiment is a release job, not too tired, higher salary etc. in one words, white collar group.

most of them are composed of relative of managers and high level leaders. In my unit most of them are memebers of communist party.

I wass told even in capitalism countries, this departments also have more power. do they take briberies? how do you bribe them in your unit? it may be interesting.

its terrible in top figuration. when he is no useful, will be throw out into heap. why? in our country, at least, work people has retired salary when retired.

is there anyone out there have any good storys about hr managers on the take still like to tell us?

interesting, how to bribe them is very useful?

I was told many famous companies in the world are very good at it.

wonderful words.

have also, commision... tea fee, coffee fee...

I vote your answer is good answer, you award a golden badge from us, haha,

Thank You

I shall wear it with honor.

Kevin

I have a question for you; what does the calligraphy mean?

I spent two hours looking for a translation and came up with nothing.

help...

kevin

Fortune.

If HR doesn'tmake you sick, the rest of NASA can. Check out this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_424YskAfew

the world's systems works in cabals, each one exerting power and influence over the other. that human power is treated as a resource started with the introduction of the man-material-money being considered as inputs to the manufacturing process at the toddler stage of the industrial age. since then, personnel management, as it was called then, had claimed it's own territory in all types of businesses, and transformed itself into another cabal.

perhaps they should restore the name "Personnel Management", as it is more fitting and more humane. then, the staff in PM had a listening ear and hearing heart. HR specialists today prefer to look at numbers in tables and charts. I wonder if this is progress or degradation in a business suit.

You know an awful lot about these lower life forms, ...and that's scary in itself.....

But darn good GA

Sadly, my father was a member of the sub species, but to his credit he owned his company, home heating oil distribution. The whole experience was very educational , I learned a lot about HVAC, boilers, forced air, gas and oil. I even learned to drive heavy transport, spent many school brakes pulling a fill hose. Being the boss' son only meant I started at the bottom and progressed as I learned. I also learned a lot about how to grow a company from start-up to dominating a local market. Could be the reason why I can't understand why big companies fail, success is so simple if you approach it the correct way. having been a witness to what is required, and many scarifices are required, I could never do it myself. Then again, I don't think the way he did.

Funny thing he never really understood the way I think, we were polar opposites. To this day i have absolutly no interest in anything accounting related.

A true story from work, that happened just last week:

A manager had a heart attack, and landed on the floor. A "first responder" was called, a worker from the floor. He was on the scene in seconds. The manager had no pulse. The worker used the paddles 3 times, and restored the mans heart-beat. The EM T's arrived, and took the man to the hospital. He is recovering.

The next day the "first responder" was called to HR. He was cited for using "inappropriate language" in the accident report, and was suspended until the "investigation" is completed.

Apparently, the form asks "in what condition did you find the victim". He wrote: "doing a kiver on the floor, and I believed he was having the big one".

The man hasn't worked in 4 days, pending the out come of the "investigation".

His comments where a little gruff, but completely true. He saved the managers life, and is now suspended from his job.

Way to go HR.

ps, I hope the HR director never hits the deck at work.......

<Slaps furry head with paw>
Oh dear, I hope the first responder has suffient composure to enjoy his time off.
The HR gonks don't seem to realise that the average Joe will be sitting at home worry for his livelyhood.
If only he had enough money he should sue them for harrassment. Where exactly in the company's policies and procedures does it spell out what is appripriate language?
Why isn't his line manger kicking down HRs door and giving them a dressing down?

Wow that has wound me up...those HR folks are lucky I'm not there.
This PC gone mad...let's punish the good guys... 4 days off as a reward would be more appropriate.

Oooooh you've upset me now...you'll have to let us know the final outcome...Will anyone from HR get disciplined? Of course not....The whole bloody factory should walk out.

I've told Mrs Cat to hold my coat...I'm coming' over there to bang their silly heads togather.
Del

"I'm coming' over there to bang their silly heads togather."

Ok, does Harlow have an airport? I'm sending my private Stearman over to pick you up:

"Why isn't his line manger kicking down HRs door and giving them a dressing down?"

I believe this has happened. The HR manager got his ass chewed by the Plant Manager too. However, he's digging in, the "investigation" continues.

This is a Union Shop, the worker will be back soon, with all back pay.

I wonder if HR would have been as concerned with the wording if it was the janitor, and not a high ranking manager that had the attack?

30 minutes from London Stansted.
Go on, leak it to the local press...watch the bastards squirm.
Del

I don't need all of Stansted, (nice airport, flew out of there in '06 to Bilbao, Spain, on Easyjet). Perhaps I can put in down on the town square.

I'm not going to leak it. Experience has shown that these things have a way of leaking themselves.

Ooooh, I'm still fuming...
Don't these ar$eholes realise the huge loss in good will and productivity that their dumb actions produce?
Morale plummets... they are supposed to be helping things run smoothly not grinding them to a halt. Maybe someone sould get an accountant to put some figures onto the loss of productivity...hmmm I don't s'pose an accountant could ever figure that out tho'.
I simply despair for industry....
At least the outfit I work for now is so small there is no HR dep't (one of the criteria in my job search)

I need strokies to calm me down...my fur is all standing on end still .
Del

Quick tell us which company that was, save us all from a possible life altering mistake of actually working there. That is just plain scary.

Actually I'd just leak it to the local press...
"Hero Suspended for Saving Life..."

Nice headline...should make HR squirm
Del

Send me the details, I will leak it to CNN, and that 'WILL' go national, that really dumb-ass HR manager will never work again, as is his just deserts. That is just wrong.

"I hope the HR director never hits the deck at work......."

Actually, I hope he does. With the first responder suspended, who's going to revive him? Except that assholes like this never suffer heart attacks; they have no hearts to suffer heart attacks with in the first place.

You need me to Force choke him? I'll gladly do this one on the house. Alternately, I'll be all too happy to dispatch the Imperial flag ship the "Executioner" to use his home for target practice.

He may have a case against hr, put aside his first responder, isn't there a thing called the good Samaritan law.

This way you'll get hr and the attorney's in the same room, Now all you'll have to do is get the accountants in there also. then you could lock the door. Three walk in and. . . . . .uhhmmm, whats this key for?

Make it a concrete room, as the key is turned a glass globe half full of petrol raises from the floor, mounted atop a shaft. It raises to 5 feet. Floating in the petrol is a small block of plastic explosive with a small sail. The sail is actually a sign post; 'YOU LOOSE' is written, in red, on both sides (just to be sure they get an opportunity to read it).

The trigger of course is a proximity censor.

the resulting air blast should nicly incinerate anything in the room, saves time for clean up later.

I am evil, need coffee...

excellent mr. evil

Arming the detonator?

Got to keep details to a minimum just in case some Bozo tries this at home, should have a disclaimer on it;

Do not try this at home kids, we are trained evil people. Experiments similar to this should only be practiced in controlled environments. Accident happen, and the lawyer may survive.

Took me a while to remember this one, the carpeting of a hero distracted me.

Just before I had to take some time off due to clinical depression form my current cubical world job I was reviewed by my now retired team leader.

She caught me on a good day so I actually filled the fool thing in, under job description is wrote; fritter and waste the hours in an off hand way, thank you Pink Floyd, and under my impression of the position; The lunatic is on the grass, Got to keep the loonies on the path, from Brain Damage, funny how things fit so well in hind sight.

needless to say the review was heavily edited when it was returned for my comment and signature. No they did not get it either, what I write goes on the record, not some political correct crap.

I am back there now, part time, new team leader, sort of, the current one got a promotion and is moving on. Waiting for someone or something to show you the way(Pink Floyd,Time) couldn't be more true, I have to escape cubicle land....

That's a good point...our hero's report of the incident should remain as writen. After all record of his thoughts at the time should be just that...
OK maybe he should have added quotation marks .
When underpressure we don't think in concise politically correct phrase.
Del

wheres the pig?

WARNING TO MEMBERS

Seems we have been invaded by a stealth accountant, my GA for #27 has been downgraded to an almost good answer. Don't panic however, it could just e a sympathizer within our numbers, almost as bad, but the poor deranged soul has at least a chance of re-education or rehabilitation. It is truly unfortunate that once one goes over to the accounting side they are truly lost. Sad but true.

I just upgraded it back to a GA fo you. I may be evil but I do have a strong sense of justice. In fact it was exasperation with corruption that drove me over to the Dark Side.

Here in the land of Oz we are starting to get on top of some serious Bush Fires.

From the evidence that is becoming apparent I would like to propose that Politicians are actually a subspecies of the Human Resources department and the accounting species.

As proof of this I offer the way they avoid answering questions and can deploy a smoke screen at least the equal of what ever is causing them some embarrassment.

Please feel free to expand on these possibilities as I have a fire to fight and am a little busy right now.

BAB

you are fighting with the bush fire? you are brave fighter! we greet to you all.

wish you conquer it soon.

politicians will never take part in the act. they can only count coins.

after fight, when visit china, do see this beautiful place.

here it is. I copy it.

many people know it when he viisted china.

cnnt image you are an adventure explorer who dare to travel in it alone. haha. wonderful,

that Gobi desert extend last for nearly thousands miles. I hv never been there. but I know lots of stories about it. there, you can eat a very sweet melen we call it Hami melon. you can eat sweat grapes. you can viist the excellent ancientry fressco in Dunhuang. which you might see in europ or america musieum. you can see a significant building like the picture I post, callled Jiayuguan.

haha dont forget water when you entry it. its very important.

take photo, and post here when you back.

I do drive around all over North America in am old Land Rover, I guess you could call me an adventurer.

So it means, we do not have to go there, The Gobi dessert will come to us

haha, neednt worry about it.

after hard treated by the local chinese people recently, the desert has been back little by little. gobi began to grow green plants. this will owe to plant trees and grass in large area.

Chinese slogan is, change Gobi into oasis.

to #70,

no, shouild call you explorer. because adventure is only a little now.

sereral years ago, an american has ever walked on feet from one port of great wall to antoher terminal. Can you do it?

I would love to walk the length of the wall, a fantastic way to enjoy the country. I would love to spend a couple of years exploring all the different corners of the country, China is the cradle of modern civilization after all. My only problem is the $$, I have a ticket on the weekend lottery though, might be my time.

Im afraid everyone in the world wish to get a good salary job instead of bad one.

just of thinking, why do you go to Japan for a job instead of staying in china or hollad?

I encourage my staff to jump into other company if they have capability. I als wish other staff come to us to enforce our strength. I may be enlightened.

if you hve any project assign to us, I shallpay you commision.

Yes i agree, but doing it only a few months after you have received training within the company is not nice, it puts a strain on a project. And you have to start training the new guy again.

Well i like Japan, i can understand why the Chinese or Asian in general don't like the Japanese, they think that they are god's gift to Asia, but lack any common sense.

I have a big interest in Japanese subculture.

Japanese populace is growing older but there is nothing done to remedy this (health care is getting worse here), Japanese have a xenophobic view of the world and tend to blame the foreigner for most of their problems (e.g. the Chinese gyoza issue, while there have been a score more Japanese companies that cheated with their food products)

and Aso is the worst prime minister in a long time.

But i still like it here

I can understand that, especially a company need man to do a job urgently. however, I think this is a little amount of staff to do like that. I certainly believe there are such men in the world, not only in china.

hoever, current youths are all wise, only several days instruct enough. its not a big problem. haha,

you dont understand our asian, its not we are dislike Japan, what we hate is their history, all of us condemn their guilt in the world II.

under help of USA, japan has developped rapidly, they have many advance tech, this needs our study. we alway s to admite that bad men in Japan are only a few. most of peple are kinds. how do you thnk in your company that japnese deal with you?

btw, what is the Chinese gyoza issue?

Hi CN-power they treat me fair but as a true Japanese company they have sometimes problems with me as i do not behave as a typical Japanese (i speak up when i do not agree )

There some Gyoza from China that had some chemicals on it, so they make a big fuzz of it in the media while a lot of Japanese food companies have mislabeled their food or lied about its origin, but these items were downplayed in the media

what is MD? main head in a company?

why do you leave that company? good treadment, good boss.

mitht be that is a tired firm. work very hard and havent got a rest time?

or you may make a joke.

MD= Managing Direct...head guy.
I left the company after some disputes mainly involving the HR manager, and an idiot incompetent manager who was installed over me...who screwed everything up, then went on holiday and left me taking the blame.
They kicked me twice..I didn't give a third oportunity.
Del

certainly leave at once. if were me. I do so.

that is not a good job, only a small cleanning sales firm.

you can set up your own firm. neednt too much

Funny or maybe not, the number of bad managers out there.

This happened to me today, my team leader asked me to come into his office, someone was uncomfortable because I had a Grebber Multi-Tool in a pouch on my belt. I was requested to store it out of sight. Well not to be pushed around I immediately went to my union rep, this is a government office, and complained. I pointed out they had no grounds to ban my multi-tool that I had been carrying for decades with no complaints. They promised to look into the matter, shortly after returning to my cubicle my manager asked me to come to her office, she repeated the same thing my team leader did, but expanded it to say that using it to clean my finge nails was not on. I refused again, pointing out I was sorry someone was uncomfortable, but what was next, no one allowed to have a mustache? i also pointed out that the knife I carry is with in all provincial and federal laws, and no whoever it was who had a problem best come and talk to me about it so we can sort it all out.

This molly coddeling of people has gotten out of hand, and i fuly expect I will be suspeded until I am willing to return sans knife. they had best call my customer service line at 1-800-biteme.

Rant off

anyone wonder why I am looking for work outside a cushy government job, ahhhhh.

Don't leave the cushy government job. Just transfer to the fire department. In our office at the moment every second desk has got an axe, chain saw or a McLeod tool and nobody minds.

It is a mixed gender office and the only time people get "Concerned" is if you have something different and you are not prepared to explain the advantages and disadvantages so they can decide if they need one.

Go somewhere where the world is still real.

BAB

Nothing would make me happier, but I am in the Canadian government, and I don't speak french, no french no promotion/transfer. I would love to get out and fight fires, fix infrastructure, anything out doors.

Only one small problem, I am over 50, my wife only has 5 years until she retires from the government, so she isn't about to move. Total PITA up here, it is getting just like the UK for all it's silly rules.

I have investigated the Canadian Criminal code, and they don't have a leg to stand on, but the whole thing is just silly beyond belief. Bottom level beuracrats going no where fast but trying to flex their muscle. Dumb, Dumb, Dumb...

OMG,

This could also go into how not to get fired or laid off.

I have a story the just happened to me, I was working for a company for about (2) years designing equipment for the environment industry. catylysts, combustion chambers and heat exchanger. Rather boring to say the least, so I waited to quit.

Well a small company near where I grew up, had some openings for what I that was alot of high end and highly paid people, Operations Managers, Engineers, as well as HR people (I reconized this as a red flag). (this was a small shop with about 18-20 people working there. Anyway they designed automated coil and stator winding equipment. I wanted to get in there since I got out of High School over thirty years ago. I called and they said all the positions were filled but was looking for a design, Hey I'm a designer. I was hired after the first interview, I saw that the company was in destressed, but that I could be an asset bring it together. But let be tell you alittle about the distressed part. The ratio between office personal and shop was one to one. And I thought the ratio a shipyard building ships for the Navy was bad.

Anyways I quit my job started there, And this made me feel that I made a very bad decision. The Electrical Engineer introduced himself to me, saying Hello my name is Doogie DanHauser (Not his real name, nick name the shop gave him) and I'm the Electrical Engineer, but to let you know, I know nothing about electrical engineering. I thought or hopefully he was just being modest, Well with in the first two weeks he knew nothing, now I put alot of value in people that learn through experience under some that worked under an engineer. or at least a person that knows what they are doing. But this guy was an idiot, blamed the vendors for mistakes, or for things not working out, and it did not take long before we went at each other in a pretty heated discussion. The gutless operations manager who was also there, that was hired (2) weeks before me bolted from the shop floor when he heard us.

Needless to say the least, afterwards, I email the next guy above the operations manager, the owner who is there only about half the time, and told him with a number of examples that they do not have an electrical engineer, I copied HR, the Gutless Operations Manager, And two other key personal that actually ran the company, Purchasing/Shop Scheduling person, and the Lead Shop Person which actually does the electrical controls, assemble and field service.

That was last week, this past Wednesday half the personal was laid off including myself, but Doogie is still there. As well as the 3/4 million dollar machine that'll be there for quite some time. (it was due last November)

disappointed,

but I had a job to do and was willing to put it on the line, at least left with my dignity, doogie is still there and is still an idiot.

phoenix911

As much as i find unions a PITA sometimes, as in auto sector, the public service has a strong union, and I have a lot of years of seniority, and getting rid of a permanent full time employee is very difficult at best. Having lived in this city for over 50 years i also know which buttons to push should that extreme type solution be required. I expect everything will work out, and it will be fun to watch them play their games.

this company is not a union, "doogie" had work there for almost 10 months, he talks rather bosterous, when questioned he'll try to distract the conversation to something nuetral. But.. his dad was a dock master that was able to get the owner a slip for his boat. I will do my job and do it well and No.......I will not put on knee pads to save my job especially when it means that it would compromise the quality of my work. A project of that size, not going well can break a company of that size.

by the way, the term "Doogie" comes from a sitcom a few years ago called "Doogie Hauser MD" about a 13 year old prodigy.

from the sound of things it will not be around much longer, I remember Dogie Howser MD, kid doctor show, my daughter loved it.

Good luck with your job, I hope they make it...

I hope they make it too, the two other key people that I email have been there for 12 years and the other 16.

They are very good people.

by the way, I take it as good luck with my job search.

thanks,

phoenix911