Lightweight Containment of Helium

This may be a bit dated and is still unanswered with a lot of good posts and info.

We all know as of today there is no known way to 100% contain helium.
All we can do is slow it down . Aluminized films seem to be about the best known so far . So with that if a coated film works good , then a extruded sheet should work better . This may not fit the "as light as it can be" program But is is still light weight over all.

I want to try an experiment with laminating polyethylene plastic with regular kitchen aluminum foil using polyurethane glue to seam the aluminum to itself , in both lap seams that make up covering the entire envelope . And a single perimeter seal of a 2 sheet method envelope (mylar balloon) Shape . All glue seams to be rolled out thin under a pressure roller . Then The polyethylene outer skin sheets are heat sealed completing the containment envelope .

I have done a simple sample 2 sheet test using the method I described above . Both Aluminum and plastic laminated very well with Scotch 77 super spray on adhesive. And the aluminum sheets seamed very well with a quick cure polyurethane adhesive . The aluminum and plastic sheet lamination actually enhanced the strength of each other. Inflating to maybe a 1/4 PSI could be done with no damage to foil, However this sample was made just for peal tests however. And it showed to destruct, before any seam let go . A Sq yard weighed 4 ounces . 3 mill plastic and aluminum . I plan to do a 8 foot " smiley face party balloon" shape envelope test in the near future . First with air to test over pressure , and a second with helium for a gas retention test.
Any feed back is welcomed here !

Area51,

You're on the right track, Ive been researching the same thing for years.

Chris,

Looks good, try it, build a model, there is a lot of research being done on this subject inorder to replace satellites.

Hi Ky,

Spacecannon

thanks Lynn,

here's the first document I found on the Goddard Library site you mentioned in your email.

cheers,

Chris

Yes Chris,

you can spend days in the Godard Library, I have found original derigible research documents from the 1920's. Many of the things we talk about, solar ariships and high altitude wind turbines have been investigated 40 years ago. Modern materials make these ideas feasible. I have materials information to share in private if you want it.

Lynn, aka Spacecannon

I wonder if this would work with NH3 - ammonia. Atomic weight = 17.

clear top, and balloon in a ballon might insulate it well enough to stay warm and high?

Problem is the cold, the NH3 might liquify at night. It does not leak, like He, and does explode like H2

what about just air? or nitrogen rich air... no environmental footprint... and ya.. the cold.. but it is going to be cold anyway, day or night at 40,000 feet... so the thing will have a daily bobbing up and down.

is that a hand up I see?

chris

We have the technology to get them down and put them into orbit. No problem

Now to the fun part.

I will let that sink in. The bubble in the bubble made me sit up. If you only want it up there and not have any propulsion and let it be at the mercy of winds it should work.

I like it. Why didn't you start a whole new thread? I'm on the case, you started this .

Its definitely "I'll dream of it" material.

See what others say, Ky.

seeing as I think that it is the same operating principle that keeps the clouds up there in the first place.

Unfortunately not: water vapour is lighter than air.

That aside this looks like a good idea. Are you thinking of tethering it or letting it "ride" the winds.

If you tethered it in the jet stream you'd be able to generate a lot of power from wind turbines.

Build it big enough, high enough and hold it still enough and you can build a ramp up to it to launch rockets (linear induction motors). I wonder where a good place to have the shadow would be: over a desert perhaps?

Sorry brain dump drivel.

thank you,

I was thinking of letting them go free... and having a wandering vacation.

where do you think they would end up... all jammed up in a far corner of the sky?

cheers,

Chris

The jet streams operate high enough to make strength of materials the main limiting factor. Carbon nano fibers might solve this The other problem is the geographic variability - you would need to move the tether, (polar tethers might be more localized.)

It is worth research

Jet Stream

Hi,

I am researching the potential of helium as a floating medium in relation to its containment and come accross this thread. It has provided a valuable insight.

Below is an artwork Cuboid Balloon by Junya Ishigami in 2008. not much tecnical data could be found except that its weight one tonne and floating: aluminium structure wrapped in layers of aluminium plate, protecting film and holding film then filled with Helium. It was exhibited for three months only and its unclear wether it was peridiocally refilled with helium or not, or wether it would float beyond that three months period.

I was hoping to find a material that could seal hydrogen permanently but after reading through this thread, I guess the answer is no.