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Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/09/2009 1:33 AM

Can I asume that the harder the blade, the sharper Im can make it...?

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#1

Re: Knifes

04/09/2009 3:41 AM

You can if you like, but it's a linguistically and practically problematica.
Some surgical instruments are diamond or ceramic..
The problem is the word 'Im' assuming you mean 'I' it's still a problem as it depends on your facilities and skill.

I'd say a better assumption is that the harder the material the better it will maintain it's sharpness.
The trade off for sharpness is gererally brittleness.

Sorry I'm being verbose and pedantic, but I'm bored
Del

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#15
In reply to #1

Re: Knifes

04/10/2009 1:53 AM

Don't be bored, Sun is shining, life is beautiful :-)

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#20
In reply to #1

Re: Knifes

04/10/2009 9:18 AM

Get a job...

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#2

Re: Knifes

04/09/2009 4:14 AM

Typing mistake...sorry.

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Knifes

04/09/2009 4:22 AM

No prob...I was just being an ass.
What is the knife for?
I'm thinking of buying or making a knife, but I want it specifically for digging arrows out of the timber surrounding the target when I miss so it needs to be more like a narrow chisel than a knife, gotta be able to cut out timber and exert some leverage. (the targets are foam sheeting in frames made of old wooden pallets)
I might just buy a chisel and modify it???
maybe I should just stop missing?
Del

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#7
In reply to #3

Re: Knifes

04/09/2009 3:39 PM

Del, sounds like you want a boot knife, or possibly a small game knife.

The boot knife has a double-edged blade and a sharply tapered tip, and is a somewhat compact size, made to be carried in a sheath that can be concealed in a soldier's boot, yet large enough for quick defense.

The small game knife has a tip that is more blunt than the boot knife, made for digging bullet fragments out of rabbits and (don't tell Kris!) squirrels.

I have a Camillus #2 Lockback that sounds like what you're looking for. They might be hard to find since the company went under several years ago.

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#8
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Re: Knifes

04/09/2009 5:02 PM

Cheers,
The small game knife looks good. I'm keen to avoid anything which looks like a wepon (in case I accidently have it on my person in public....)

I'll see what I can find on the web, or maybe make something... I have some EN8, also got a big old hacksaw blade which might grind down.
Del

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#10
In reply to #8

Re: Knifes

04/09/2009 10:41 PM

The big old hacksaw blade makes a good knife from an edge point of view, but if you are putting a lot of bending moment on it when digging out these wayward arrows be careful, they can be quite brittle.

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#16
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Re: Knifes

04/10/2009 2:53 AM

This is one of the largest online sources, to give you days of browsing pleasure

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#19
In reply to #8

Re: Knifes

04/10/2009 9:01 AM

Hi Del,

Look at the leatherman range. In particular the skelitool. The blade is as the small game knife and very sturdy to take the prying you will use for digging out your bolts.

Not all the knives in their range have the same sturdyness. (I have two others, with thinner blades, for differing circumstances). They do stick by their guarantee, I've just recieved a replacement knife (FOC) for one broken due to misuse. They are available in the UK.

http://www.leatherman.com/multi-tools/full-size-tools/skeletool.aspx

Regards

Chas

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#22
In reply to #19

Re: Knifes

04/10/2009 9:22 AM

Yeah cheers, I'll give 'em a look, a couple of guys carry them and the pliers are handy fror pulling arrow heads too.

Del

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#58
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Re: Knifes

04/14/2009 4:46 AM

Maybe you can finally find a use for that blade on the pen knife which is meant for taking stones out of horses hooves.

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#59
In reply to #7

Re: Knifes

04/14/2009 5:03 AM

I am sure Kris won`t mind, as if he's been shot, he will want someone to dig the bullet out!!!

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#60
In reply to #59

Re: Knifes

04/14/2009 5:32 AM

LOL - It'd be a lot less messy than all Del's claws ! He only just made parole after the last joint op's mission.

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#12
In reply to #3

Re: Knifes

04/09/2009 11:43 PM

A good quality glaziers knife would save you some grinding

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#18
In reply to #3

Re: Knifes

04/10/2009 7:48 AM

Several knife supply houses have been selling military bayonets that are extremly tough and they would make ideal knives for digging out embedded arrowheads. I have quite a few and I would recomend the Swiss Army bayonet, it is tough, can be sharpened to a wicked edge, and made out of a rust resistance steel that looks quite nice. One can be obtained for around $15.00. Hope this helps.

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#21
In reply to #18

Re: Knifes

04/10/2009 9:21 AM

Cheers, I shall have a look on the web, although a bayonet may be a bit too vicious.
With the upsurge of knife crime in the UK, I'm keen to keep a low profile, although most field archers carry big sheath knives...It would be just my luck to walk into Sainsburies with one on my belt and then get pounced on by security guards/police/MI6, AlQueada etc...

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#24
In reply to #3

Re: Knifes

04/10/2009 9:53 AM

You might look into wood carving chisels. They come in many sizes and profiles, can be sharpened to cut wood like butter and no one will mistake one for a weapon.

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#36
In reply to #3

Re: Knifes

04/10/2009 10:03 PM

Ah...

a band clamp

a split yoke

a collet

a slide hammer

no sharpening required

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#4

Re: Knifes

04/09/2009 4:48 AM

Just a general question I had.

I thought that the harder the material, the more compact the grain size\smaller the grain size thus the "smaller" you can get the cutting edge thus the sharper it will be.

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#13
In reply to #4

Re: Knifes

04/09/2009 11:49 PM

I prefer the 500 series stainless material because at full Brinell hardness (harder than woodpecker lips) it is not the least bit brittle. In fact at 3/16th" thickness and full hardness, place in vise and you an three other men bend 90° one way then back again then use for a life time.

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#5

Re: Knifes

04/09/2009 8:56 AM

Depending on what you want it for would determine your hardness. Generally for chefs they would use a slightly softer blade to assist in the sharpening and the ability to get a sharp edge quickly and easily. With just a few licks down a sharpening rod and you could slice a nice clean, even piece of meat, tomatoe, or whatever. As Del mentioned above, the harder the steel makes it more brittle but retains it's edge longer. I prefer to get a clean sharp edge quickly. However if your using it for other reasons you must decide whether you want durability or ease of sharpening,

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#6

Re: Knifes

04/09/2009 9:15 AM

Speaking in only the MOST general terms, you are kinda sorta correct.

The material (generally steel) is but one determining factor; and usually turns into a series of trade-offs between workability, durability, how "long" it will hold an edge, etc.

Other factors that go into "sharpness" include the actual cutting angle you put on it, whether you would prefer the edge to "turn" or break, do you want to be able to resharpen it.

So the most acute angle with the densest steel will give you a brittle blade that is incredibly sharp - i.e. the scalpel.

Examples of the different approaches in consumer grade steel:

Buck ran a very hard, fine grained steel that held an edge for a LONG time - but was very difficult for the average buyer to resharpen.

Chicago Cutlery started out for the butcher trade and so constant resharpening was assumed, so they dropped the hardness and stain resistance to get a knife that could take an edge quickly.

Now if you want to get out of steel into other materials things get complicated.

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#9
In reply to #6

Re: Knifes

04/09/2009 9:53 PM

GA edignan, and I would also like to add:

A. the cutting edge angle is as per use, the narrower for soft material to cut, the wider for harder materials to cut. E.g: 20 degrees (approx) for meat, 30 for leather, 40 for wood, and so on. Some Multi-Tool manufacturers sharpen their knife blades to about 45 degrees, to ensure durability for cutting hard plastics and wood, while kitchen knife manufacturers usually sharpen their products to about 20 to 30 degrees for general food preparation. 72 degrees is usually known for cutting metal with (harder) metal, as widely used in drills and boring tips.

B. The cutting flange profile (Gripping Flange), is designed for the desired degree of (inevitable) resistance between the blade and the material to cut: concave, straight or convex.

C. "sharp" in practical terms, usually means "serrated", and be it large serrations grooved into the flange, or micro-serrations as an inevitable part of the grinding process. Even the most buffed, shiny edges, have nano-serrations which assist in the actual cutting, only you may need a microscope to see them.

D. Keeping an edge sharp is dependant of use: abrasive materials to cut, will eventually dull the sharpest and hardest blades. Cloths (and fabric in general) is woody material in the sense that they contain silica, part of any plant material. So in general cutting wood, fabric paper cardboard and vegetables is considered more abrasive than, say, cutting meat which is soft-tissue polymer, not unlike many kinds of plastic. Cutting bone hair and nail is more abrasive because bone contain calcium, which is a form of metal

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#17
In reply to #9

Re: Knifes

04/10/2009 3:33 AM

Nice A (that's answer not ass)
Flaked flint is a superb edge for cutting meat, sharp and serrated...but of course brittle.
Del

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#30
In reply to #9

Re: Knifes

04/10/2009 3:01 PM

All the things I forgot! GA!

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#11

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/09/2009 11:01 PM

To directly answer your question, no. As other posters have indicated (but not necessarily came right out and said), neither hardness, nor grain size has any effect at all on how sharp the blade can be made, only how long the blade will stay sharp, how long it takes to get it sharp, and how ductile the blade will be in use. Those are important aspects of a knife blade, but not the one you asked about.

BTW, on my Buck knives I use a diamond hone, and even then it takes a while to get a decent edge on the blade. I probably need to get a coarser hone for initial shaping.

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#14

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/10/2009 12:04 AM

Went around this stuff many times, as I needed a good fish gutting knife, as well as fillet knife, as well as a baiting cutting knife, as well as a boning knife, as well as a roast carving knife, as well as a rope cutting knife, as well as a whittling knife----man!!! what to do???---What I found out was the most useful information existed in the various Survival Forums , on the net---ex-military, Knife makers, hunters, bowhunters, survivalists, knife sharpening people etc---The amount of information is staggering---just link to the use of the tool, and they will guide you in the right direction---No agenda---they just enjoy sharing what they have learned over their lives, and to share their experiences... give it a shot---you may be surprised!!---C-MAC

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#23

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/10/2009 9:47 AM

This is your assumption. In the world which iwe live for a good knife we need following

1. High materials hardness

2. Small grain size

3. High young modulus of material

4. No grain deformation underload

This is basic need at higher level development you also need brittle glassy grain boudry phase which has ability to have self lubrication and ease of mrain removal for sharpning if needed

People have made good knife using yettria stablized zirconium oxide which may need sharpning after few generation of use

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#25

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/10/2009 11:09 AM

Try this at home. Take a tomato and try slicing it with a knife that isn't quite razor sharp. If you saw back and forth with the knife, using a light downward pressure, you won't cut through the tomato. Than try slicing the tomato with a quick light stroke and even a dull knife will cut through. The point is, it's the technique used, not the sharpness of the knife. A sharp knife is a plus.

I'm sure you have seen the informercial on TV of the guy sawing through a nail and then cutting a tomato cleanly afterwards. It is done by the technique described above.

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#26
In reply to #25

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/10/2009 11:44 AM

I have attended a show and was amazed how people play with people with less knolwdge and actual fact digestive background. You are 100% correct and my mistake I pointed out this to the guy during his show in one of mall in San Diego few years back

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#27

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/10/2009 12:34 PM

what about the Damascus or folded steel blades.

I heard if you really wanted a good blade that the only way to get it real sharp was with folded forged steel.

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#28
In reply to #27

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/10/2009 1:15 PM

Folded steel blades were created for flexability along with toughness, a good quality steel will take a sharp edge in the form it was shaped in. I have over 20 years experience in sharpening ASTM cutting dies and have yet to see one constructed out of folded steel (I do have several Japanese swords that are). My dies can slice through a sheet of paper held on edge with one swipe of the die. The real secret to sharp blades is the sharpener type and the oil used in the process, and the skill of the operator.

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#29

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/10/2009 2:58 PM

Interesting discussion.

My father was a Meat Cutter his entire life and I recall him making his own knifes from large metal files. He would custom shape the blades to match his cutting style and then sharpen them so that if you held the blade sharp side up and dropped a piece of paper the paper would be sliced on its way down. He would also test by seeing if the blade would would shave the hair off his arm.

If I remember correctly, his sharpening rod was always at hand and he would run his blade across it about three times (up/down) before starting any large cutting job. In his day a cutting job started with a side or quarter of beef... not the precut sections of labeled meat one gets in the stores these days.

He also used his butcher knifes as protection as he worked in a not so great part of town... his knives were balanced and he could throw one 30-40 feet and hit his target - usually boxes or wood. The tips never broke...

Not sure what those files were made of - but they made great knives. I still have two of them and use them all the time.

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#33
In reply to #29

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/10/2009 4:38 PM

Great blades can be grounded from either metal files, (old-school - flatbed) car and tractors wheel springs, but the best, toughest metal I know of for this, is from those big industrial horizontal saws:

The cutting blades on these metal cutting saws, are big enough to create swords. These are 4 by 20 inch blades, 1/8 inch thick, made of shock-proof tempered, high-carbon steel called "Blue-Marked Hi-speed" - designed to cut tough metals.

These, occasionally break, and discarded by metal shops or sold for cheap. You can only grind them to shape. The metal is so tough, you cannot punch, drill, cut or shear it of course.

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#31

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/10/2009 3:09 PM

Files make stunningly good blades, other places one might not think to look - commercial planer blades.

And that steel your father kept around doesn't ('cause we are all being real accurate) actually sharpen the knife.

With use the microscopic (maybe not microscopic but real small) edge "turns" over (rolls) back toward the blade.

Between serious sharpenings one "steels" the blade to "roll" the edge back into line with the cutting edge.

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#32
In reply to #31

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/10/2009 4:09 PM

It's hard to find a decent steel these days...a while back I bought one..it was useless I took it back to the shop and got a refund...I still use an ancient one I found whilst rumaging around in a junk shop.
Del

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#34

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/10/2009 8:20 PM

I forgot about the use of files---The old shipbuilders that I was lucky to work with in my youth would always be on the lookout for old worn files, which they would grind down into the sharpest chisels I have ever seen---The trick was in the grinding (tempering with water, and not getting them too hot, and the blade angle (which determined the type of work it was being used for)--Thanks for reminding me! C-MAC

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#35

Knife Making Issue

04/10/2009 9:10 PM

One observation:

Fixed blades are easier for DIY'ers to make. You can use a single piece of steel for the blade and handle. Then all that's left is to make a pair of grips and pin them on.

I point this out because a fixed blade is more likely to be seen as a weapon. Del, you said you wanted to avoid that. However, if anyone could make themselves a folding blade knife, it's you.

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#37

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/11/2009 2:53 AM

Whew, where to start......So far, I have seen a lot of good information here, but some stuff that's a little off. First, you do have to start with good material, I'll concur, but you want to be careful of the carbon content. Too much, and you are looking at a brittle blade that will take a good edge but chip out and break if used to pry with. There has to be concern during the hardening and tempering process, and without getting into some sort of book writing I won't go into the specifics of that.If you really need tons of information, go to the American Bladesmithing Society site, it is the group that I am a registered master with. I think you will find mind boggling data to read, information on everything from steels, Damascus steel, heat treating, edge profiles, whatever you may need to make a proper decision based on your usage.

From personal experience, I have found the Damascus (folded steel) blades to be superior, and I would avoid stainless unless you are unable to care for the blade properly or if you are using it for surgical procedures. Check the testing of blades for the ABS to see what sort of action/punishment is required to pass. As I progressed in my bladesmithing skills, I was amazed at the ability of a well made knife and what you can accomplish with it. By the way, just a personal ism......I hate the butchers steels that they use to sharpen with, every knife that I get in the shop that someone has used a steel on looks as if they were making a hacksaw blade. Once sharpened correctly, the person inevitably tells me they never had the knife that sharp, even when new. They also end up being lifelong sharpening customers, and most end up buying a knife or two. Keep the angles correct and you will have a well functioning knife.

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#38
In reply to #37

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/11/2009 6:06 AM

GA.

Indeed many good points.

I mentioned a particular stainless in the surgical group but without brittleness. We were amazed at the characteristics this steel provided.

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#39
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Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/11/2009 6:47 AM

I can't beat stainless for surgical instruments, especially since they have to be autoclaved. I have made more than a few instruments for doctors, and have always used 440C. You mentioned a 500 series? I'll have to see if I can acquire some of that and try it, because the 400 series tends to be to the brittle side. Sounds downright intriquing!!

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#45
In reply to #39

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/12/2009 5:06 PM

At full Brinell hardness the about .180" blade was tested by clamping and using hydraulic ram to bend 90 degrees to the right then back then 90 degrees to the left and return to straight condition with no loss of integrity.

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#40
In reply to #38

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/11/2009 6:54 AM

"Traditional" stainless is mainly steel with some chrome added, which (because of reformed lattice structure) adds brittleness. However, the new generation of "hi-tech" stainless used by tool manufacturers, adds other metals (vanadium, manganese, nickel, molybdenum and other metals), and exotic tempering methods to achieve all kinds of high-end properties.

Much of today's hi-end sophisticated metallurgy, is based on advanced practical knowledge, which traveled west from the former Soviet Union since the mid-nineties.

Today's metal design includes some exotic alloys with deformation "memory", and smart alloys able to stiffen locally, in response to incoming pressure. Such properties are applied for the fabrication of artificial limbs and armoring

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#41

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/11/2009 7:00 AM

Hmm, I wonder if the Chome moybdenum steel they use for spanners and the like would take an edge, it would certainly be tough...waste of a good spanner.
But maybe a combination spanner, leave the ring end like a nice sort of pomel, and sharpen the other end as a short chisel, knife point, could be just what I need?
Or is that just mad?
Del

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#42
In reply to #41

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/11/2009 8:06 AM

Del, look up bird and trout knife, it is almost what you describe. Many had a ring on the end, presumably so you could tie it or put your pinky finger through it just so it won't be lost. Find a old spanner, one that has been trashed, and experement with it. Let's see some photos here of your results. Since you are into bows, check out flint striker knives, most often made from recycled files and used to start fires with. They often doubled as patch knives for the black powder long gun boys.

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#43
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Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/11/2009 12:13 PM

Cheers,
Oooh, so many projects, so little time.
BTW.Bit of a plug... My latest bow (Asiatic Recurv)e is being blogged on Tuesday.
If I make something decent I'll be sure to show it.
Del

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#44
In reply to #43

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/11/2009 3:29 PM

Ah, meant to send you a link

Found a fella who makes bows out of laminated bamboo - google Howard Hill? archery

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#53
In reply to #42

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/13/2009 6:05 AM

Hi, I just chopped the end off a cheap old plastic handled 5mm wood chisel and ground it down to avery short stubby triangular section, more of an axe angle on it for strength, then I ground a tiny chisel tip on it.
It looks ugly as sin as I've only got an angle grinder and one of those tiny 2" 'stick it in your electric drill' wheels .
It has tons of leverage .. I'll post a pic if you promise not to mock it...
Del

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#46
In reply to #41

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/12/2009 5:23 PM

Ya' cud braze a small bearing race about 1" or so diameter x1/2" to a vise grip plier or just modify a "cats paw" into a beefed up potato eye remover

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#47

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/12/2009 5:51 PM

A word about Damascus steel:

A lot of people have imbued Damascus steel with some kind of magical properties over the years, but inactuality, modern steelmaking has Dmamascus steel beat. the folding that is the hallmark of Damascus steel did three things. it refined the grain (made the grains smaller), ensured homogenity in the material by moving the outer surface (which had picked up carbon from the charcoal in the forge) to the interior and exposing a new surface to the carbon source, and hot worked the steel. Conventional steelmaking practice can and does do all these things. Modern AISI 1085 steel, properly forged, carbourized and heat threated is the match of any folded steel. It is the preferred material of all modern swordmakers.

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#48
In reply to #47

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/12/2009 6:28 PM

GA

At last, some reason over hype

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#49
In reply to #47

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/12/2009 6:33 PM

Along these lines (and understand I love the look of Damascus) were there not problems over time with ?intergranular? corrosion?

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#50
In reply to #49

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/12/2009 8:28 PM

Some common blade alloy types (a quote from a prominent knife maker's site):

CPM-M4: Special purpose, high-speed steel with a combination of high Carbon, Moly, Vanadium and Tungsten for excellent wear resistance and toughness; A powder-metal, non stainless steel.

154CM: An American made premium grade stainless steel originally developed for tough industrial applications. Known for its best all-around qualities, it offers great corrosion resistance with good toughness and edge quality.

S30V: An American made and developed premium grade stainless steel created especially for knives. It is a powder made steel with a uniform carbide distribution and clean steel properties. As a blade material it offers excellent corrosion resistance and superb edge qualities.

D2: An air-hardened tool steel, which offers good corrosion resistance and excellent mileage in wear resistance. A good choice for hard use applications.

440C: A high-chromium stainless steel with a terrific balance of good hardness and corrosion resistance. 440C takes a nice edge and is fairly easy to resharpen. An excellent value priced steel for its performance.

N690: An Austrian made stainless steel, which is comparable to 440C in performance and value. Keen edge qualities with great corrosion resistance.

9Cr13CoMoV: A Chinese made high-carbon stainless steel with increased levels of cobalt added for greater edge retention. Offers a higher level of corrosion resistance at a great value.

AUS-8: A Japanese made medium-carbon, high chromium stainless steel, which offers a good balance of toughness, edge sharpness and corrosion resistance.

8Cr14MoV: A Chinese steel with similar performance characteristics to AUS-8. An excellent value priced steel for its performance.

X15 T.N: This French steel was developed for the aircraft industry for jet ball bearings, as well as the medical industry for scalpels. It has the ability to resist rust in the worst of conditions while maintaining ample edge retention. The capability behind this steel is in the way it is manufactured, resulting in the finest steel for use in harsh environments such as salt water. The edge on an X15 T.N blade is easier to maintain.

DAMASCUS: A specially forged, layered steel made up of a variety of steels, It offers remarkable toughness and edge quality. For finishing, the surface layers or lines are exposed through an acid etch, which creates a very unique visual effect. Used in special applications due to its inherent high cost and artistic nature.

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#51
In reply to #50

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/12/2009 9:50 PM

The problem that you run into with martensitic stainless knife alloys is that chromium LOVES carbon. It will suck the carbon right out of the steel matrix and tie it up as Chromium Carbide. Chromium Carbide does nothing for hardness OR corrosion resistance. So every hardenable matrensitic stainless steel is a balancing act. Add enough carbon to overcome Chrome's effect and leave some for hardening purposes and you tie up all the Chromium, add enough chromium to make the steel very corrosion resistant and you tie up all the carbon. That is why many of the truly high performance corrosion resistant alloys are age hardening instead of martensitic. Alloys like 17-4PH and 17-7PH.

I will add a note of clarification concerning my statement about swordmakers use of 1085 steel. The swordmakers in question are the ones shooting for authenticity. People who are trying to duplicate the properties of Katana's with modern steels for instance.

Authentic Katana's are made by forge welding two different steels. relatively low carbon steel is forged into a U-shape around a core of higher carbon steel making a tough resilient spine and then the assembly is forge welded into one solid forging. Then the sword is normalized and tempered. The edge, which is higher carbon, is coated with a refractory slurry then the blade is heated back up to hardening temp and then quenched in one swift swing into a water tank cutting edge first. The refractory slows the heat transfer enough that it doesn't crack. The spine of the blade shrinks more than the blade creating the arc.

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#52
In reply to #51

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/12/2009 10:29 PM

So, according to this, the Katana blade is not really homogenised in terms of lattice geometry. It must have dedicated properties distributed to-effect, and the core (or spine) acts as some sort of shock-damper, to receive kinetic energy absorbed by the rim, right ?

As a result it must have a wide range of resonant frequencies, and not at all a "ringing" or "clanging" sound. I'm only guessing. I never held one in my hands

I read somewhere that it's typical arched curve is formed naturally by the difference in inner tension between the back and the cutting edge

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#54
In reply to #52

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/13/2009 6:22 AM

Here's a chunk of a 1hr documentary. That tail end shows how the blade is stressed to give the curved shape.

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#55
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Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/13/2009 6:45 AM

Nice clip...

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#56

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/13/2009 9:20 AM

If you take a good higher carbon steel, (D2 is an excellent example), freeze it! Cryogenic treating, -300 for 24 hours will convert retained austinite to martinsite, making the steel much more resistant to wear and corrosion without making it harder and therefore more brittle. It's been around a long time, where it's used on appropriate material, it makes significant improvement to already great tooling. The beauty of it is that the entire piece is improved, unlike coatings. Sharpen it, and the new edge lasts longer. dkimmel@300below.com

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#57
In reply to #56

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/13/2009 9:58 AM

I first ran into this with performance brake disks.

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#61

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/14/2009 6:03 AM

I may be completely "Off Topic" with this idea, but if I understood you correctly, you want to extract "target" (not hunting!) Arrows and Bolts from a Target...

So why not build a lever extractor that uses a similar method to grip the shaft as a "Collet" does for a Router or Lathe? A screwed ring to clamp down with. so as not to damage the shaft.

Even if you feel that you still need to cut around the Arrowhead to relieve some pressure, surely a few well placed holes from a portable drill will remove pressure better and you cannot be arrested for carrying an "Offensive Weapon" as it would be "far too Boring!"

If you MUST have a cutting tool, may I recommend an old woodworker's Mortice Chisel, they are designed to take bending stresses that a normal chisel cannot handle at all.....

Did you ever here about the young couple, late at night, screwing (standing up!) in a shop doorway.

A Policeman asked them quietly to stop and leave.

The girl swore at him, telling him to "Go forth and Multiply!"

He asked them again, but with the same result....

He then arrested the young man for:-

"having an offensive person on his Weapon!!"

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#62
In reply to #61

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/14/2009 7:51 AM

Bah Dump! "Thank you very much! I'll be here all week... Try the Veal!"

Actually, on the same track as Andy started down, since modern broadboints screw onto the shaft, could you not unscrew the shaft, screw a pulling attachment onto the point and then use a cam type assembly to pull it out, sort of like a lever type corkscrew?

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#63
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Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/14/2009 7:56 AM

GA - Good idea. U2 Andy.

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#64
In reply to #62

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/14/2009 7:57 AM

These aren't broadheads (illegal in UK) they are filed piles (points), glued onto 11/32" cedar shafts.
Pliers sometimes get 'em out, but mine go in quite a way, as I'm shooting a 75lb Yew longbow.
Del

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#65
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Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/14/2009 8:02 AM

If so, maybe it'll be easier to push them further, all the way through to the other side...

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#66
In reply to #64

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/14/2009 9:29 AM

GROAN! You Brits and your stupid weapons laws! Next thing you know you'll be outlawing gardening implements and sewing scissors!

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#67
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Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/14/2009 9:51 AM

Already done. Not even rubber knives and soap guns. NADA.

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#70
In reply to #67

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/14/2009 10:20 AM

Yuval, you guys got it right. Every able bodied person of draft age has a fully automatic weapon (government supplied no less!) in their closet and are trained how to use it. I bet home invasion robberies in your country are virtually unheard of.

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#72
In reply to #70

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/14/2009 12:37 PM

The fact that every boy and girl have combat training, doesn't mean that every adult in Israel can carry an automatic weapon, and you cannot get into a store and buy one off the shelf.

Licensing to carry a weapon in Israel requires to convince the authorities that you must have it - as a professional, or for self protection.

You may kill or injure some burglar breaking into your property, and they are fully entitled to sue your ass in court for damages - regardless of their alleged crime.

There was a judicial precedent some two years ago, when a burglar was killed in the boundaries of someone's property and the killer was acquitted, so the nature of things may change in the future, to favour owners trying to protect their property.

It's much more liberal in that respect in the U.S.

Besides, the law-book in Israel, is based on the British and Ottoman law.

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#73
In reply to #72

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/14/2009 12:54 PM

Well, maybe you guys have a ways to go on that. Thankfully here in Texas we have the castle doctrine that is very lenient (I would not say liberal. Most liberals in the US are against gun ownership and use by mere civilians. They only want the government to possess guns. I seem to recall a certain German leader that gave your future countrymen quite a bit of trouble that felt much the same way. Made things much easier for him when he decided he wasn't real happy with your countrymen's continued existence.) in authorizing the use of deadly force. You break into someone's home or business at your own risk.

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#75
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Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/14/2009 2:38 PM

"I seem to recall a certain German leader that gave your future countrymen quite a bit of trouble that felt much the same way. Made things much easier for him when he decided he wasn't real happy with your countrymen's continued existence"

If you're suggesting that public gun ownership would have stopped Nazi Genocide, it sounds like a load of crap. Sorry if I didn't read you right, but if I did, can you explain more ?

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#77
In reply to #75

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/14/2009 2:49 PM

Would it have stopped it Kris? Eh probably not, but it certainly would have slowed it down to some unknown degree, and in these sorts of things, every little bit helps. Restrictions on gun ownership are a hallmark of totalitarian dictatorships all over the world and that is a fact. But of course now if you are not 100% in step with the Obama Administration you must be a right wing radical bent on overthrowing the government.

I feel so... so... radical now!

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#81
In reply to #77

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/14/2009 4:11 PM

What I write here is statistically correct, but may not sit well with many people in the USA. There is nothing I can do to change the facts.

For me, the UK, with no requirement (nor possibility at this time) of a citizens ID card, is still a free country in many more aspects than most, but it is one of the last countries like this.....but has very strict gun laws.....DUUUHHHH!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I tend to disagree strongly with with your "throwaway" statement which was:-

Restrictions on gun ownership are a hallmark of totalitarian dictatorships all over the world and that is a fact.

In Germany where I live and the UK, both have very strict gun controls. Both countries have also far fewer murders......and far fewer gun homicides too than the USA, neither are Totalitarian countries to my mind......

The opposite side of the coin could be the "Free to murder at will countries"?

If you go and look at the following website, you can find a lot of detail about Crimes "per Capita"....

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita

Murder (all murders, not just with Firearms) for example, the USA sits in position #24 of the "Hit list"...whereas Germany occupies position #49 and the UK position #46. Quite a difference don't you think? By the way, the lower the number, the more murders per capita!!!! Or the higher you are in the table.....

The USA had position #8 in the world, for murder using firearms, funnily enough, totally in the middle of some of the totalitarian regimes you mentioned!! In fact, higher in the table than many of them.......WOW!! What did guns do for you US Citizens????

Germany takes position #21 in this table and the UK's position is lower than #32, which is the last position, probably because hand guns are TOTALLY BANNED IN THE UK!!!! Statistically almost Zero Homicides using guns of ANY sort.....the good side of Totalitarianism?

Now THAT is a statistic to be proud of!!!! Even though it makes things tough for our UK Olympic Pistol teams......

Basically, gun control has NOTHING to do with Totalitarian Governments......but it does have a lot to do with common sense.....

So may I suggest that using NRA political comments on CR4 will not get you far. before someone shows you the real facts....

Remember, the NRA has its own axe to grind, don't be taken in by their falsified statistics, many people are though!!!

Funnily enough, in countries without National Service, taking away guns seemingly reduces gun crimes, UK for example (seems reasonable to me!) and in fact reduces ALL murder crimes of any sort again the UK for example (also nice I feel!).

In many countries where National Service is still actual, even in spite of many households having guns, gun crimes are often statistically lower......why, because they have been properly educated in their proper care and usage..........

Switzerland has the most guns per capita (after the USA and the Yemen) and an almost non existent firearm murder rate!!! But they have national Service too.......

See:-

http://www.uspoliticsonline.com/gun-rights-security-issues/38021-highest-firearms-per-capita-switzerland-crime-rate-nearly-non-existent.html

The Swiss also did not "score" in the highest 32 countries for Homicide with Firearms.....WOW!!! This means Less than 0.0249 persons per 100,000 people.....the same as the UK.

If you look here:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_countries_by_gun_ownership

You will find this table, I find that it makes VERY interesting reading.......

I personally believe that hand guns are simply not needed except by Armed Forces and police forces.....not for private usage, though there are many here in Germany, they must be in a special cabinet and you must be in a gun club and fully trained......its not a perfect answer by any means.....

Sorry that I am the bearer of such bad news about guns and murder rates......

CountryGuns per
100 residents
YearComment

United States

90.02007

Yemen

61.02007

Switzerland

46.02007

Iraq

39.02007

Serbia

37.52007

France

32.02007

Finland[5]

32.02008

Canada

31.52007

Sweden

31.52007

Austria

31.02007

Germany

30.02007

New Zealand[2]

26.81993

Saudi Arabia

26.32007

Greece

23.02007

Angola

20.52007

Thailand

16.02007

Australia

15.52007

Mexico

15.02007

South Africa

13.12007

Turkey

13.02007

Argentina

12.62007

Italy

12.12007

Pakistan

12.02007

Spain

11.02007

Russia

9.02007

Ukraine

9.02007

Brazil

8.82007

Colombia

7.22007

United Kingdom

5.62007

Iran

5.32007

Philippines

4.72007

India

4.02007

China

3.52007

Nigeria

1.02007
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#82
In reply to #81

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/14/2009 4:14 PM

It's very hard to sharpen a decent edge onto a gun

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#85
In reply to #82

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/14/2009 4:25 PM

I don't see why its difficult to keep it REALLY sharp????

See it in action here:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uVTPRhWdfc

You just need a good whet stone........

This one is "prettier" I feel:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_Vk8BN4BWw&feature=related

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#90
In reply to #85

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/15/2009 7:53 AM

Who makes this "knife gun" and where can I get one. This would be a nice addition to my collection.

PS. Not all Americans who own firearms are hell bent on distruction, with over 300 million KNOWN firearms in our country, their silence is mute testamony to the attitude of their owners.

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#93
In reply to #90

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/15/2009 10:37 AM

300 million known firearms

Population 305 million

Percent who own guns = 21.6%

Guns per person ≈5

Ignoring the fact that babies probably aren't carrying guns, that's a bit of overkill isn't it ?

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#95
In reply to #93

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/15/2009 11:06 AM

Nope, it isn't, just like knives, not all guns perform different purposes equally. I own three. All handguns. a .22LR target pistol to hone my marksmanship with, a .357 Magnum for stopping power at home (it is too large to comfortably carry concealed) and a .380 for concealed carry for when someone decides they like the looks of my car or my wallet or my wife... I'm thinking of getting a 9mm to address the issue of ammunition shortages, currently buying ammo is virtually impossible because nobody has any to sell and many people are rightly concerned that this may not get much better under the Obama administration. By getting a caliber that is used by most armies on the planet, I am assured that surplus ammo should remain available for some time.

That does not even begin to address the issues of long guns. Many hunters have multiple calibers for different game, plus perhaps one or two or more shotguns with different barrels/chokes for shooting ducks/geese/quail vs slugs for deer or feral hog hunting. Plus you may need one or more "house guns". shotguns with a short barrel and an extended magazine for dealing with intruders in your home. some people have more than one scattered about their home so that no matter where in your home you may be, you have ready access to one if the need arises. A handgun's purpose is to allow you to fight your way to a long gun which is far more devastating than a handgun.

Each gun serves a different purpose. If you filled every possible purpose that a gun could fulfill, you could easily amass quite an arsenal.

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#96
In reply to #95

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/15/2009 11:31 AM

I like the idea of stopping power at home. If somebody breaks into your home, I don't have a big problem with blowing their head off. The only problem is making sure that it's used in just that situation.

Shooting animals is fine so long as they get eaten, it's a professional shot etc.

Is there not a gun (home defence) available for which you can easily make your own ammo ? I wouldn't want to live some place where I felt the need, but not everyone is in that position. If I considered such threat likely, I'd be inclined to go down the route of intruder alarm + electrocution. Faulty wiring is easier to explain than brains on the wall paper. No, I'm not joking !

Close-quarter assault is much more likely than by gun in the UK, so martial art skills would be a better investment of time/money.

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#97
In reply to #96

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/15/2009 12:10 PM

It all depends on your definition of "making your own".

Thousands of people "roll their own" by reloading. bullets can be cast from melted down wheel weights or old car batteries and such or bought ready made. the brass cases (assuming they are boxer primed and not berdan primed like most european cases are.) can be reused a number of times before they succumb to fatigue. And they can be annealed to extend their life. Worst case, you could machien your own brass from barstock if the market dried up. Making your own smokeless powder, while technically feasible I suppose, is probably not a good idea. but you can buy ready made powders of differing burn rates. Worst case, you could make your own black powder. Your bullets won't go as far or as fast and your accuracy will deteriorate as a result with black powder and your batch consistency will probably be spotty, but if needs must.....

The critical part that you cannot easily make yourself will be primers. If the sale of primers were ever made illegal, gun owners would be screwed blued and tattooed. We'd have to start stealing from the military or illegally smuggling them in from China. Yet another reason to own guns chambered for military standard issue calibers. If the revolution ever does come, we'll be able to use anything we picked up. =)

You can even reload shotgun shells. Midwayusa.com has a wide assortment of reloading presses and supplies....

But remember the 2A was not about hunting, it was also not especially about self-defense although an argument could be made for that as well based on the concept that defense of yourself, your family, and your possesions is a fundamental human right. If you cannot protect it from being taken from you, you do not truly own it. Since our society is based fundamentally on the concept of capitalism and liberty, ownership (and therefore protection of) of property is a foundation of society.

But the second amendment goes far beyond that. The second amendment is the constitution's escape clause. The founding fathers had just fought a tyrannical government that had arbitrarily thrown out individual liberty protections of it's citizens. They knew that historically all governments eventually tended towards tyanny. It is the natural order of governments. Think of it as another aspect of the laws of thermodynamics. Entropy must increase, as must tyranny. As the old saying goes, power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. They knew that government must be kept small, weak, and dependent on it's citizens good graces for it's continued existance or it would grow and grow and become what they had just fought to get out from under, like a Golem that keeps demanding more clay. These men were not idiots, they were well educated and had a very long view of history, far more than most educated people today do. They had seen what had come before and knew it would come again. So they built in an escape clause. They made sure that if the federal government ever managed to break free of it's owner's grasp, we the citizens would have the means to put it down, like a beloved dog that had become rabid.

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#98
In reply to #97

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/15/2009 1:30 PM

Just think about that for a minute. What other government on earth gives it's citizens the right to overthrow itself?

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#103
In reply to #97

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/16/2009 2:44 AM

It's a very interesting subject, and I appreciate the info + perspectives, but we've strayed a bit too far from the original question. I don't usually wimp out on a good debate, but this one could go on too long. Hopefully we can all add in more, as/when the topic (public ownership/constitution etc) crops up across CR4's merry path. The subject merits a long debate, but it's too far outside CR4's remit. It won't be long before we can swap a few more snippets on it all.

Not sure if you've seen it, but somewhere there is a recent question about home made lead shot - it may be of interest. I'm not subscribed, but can probably locate it if you're interested. Hang on, here it is ! I must be on a roll, this thread was interesting too.

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#104
In reply to #103

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/16/2009 8:05 AM

Well put.

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#105
In reply to #104

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/16/2009 9:58 AM
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#83
In reply to #81

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/14/2009 4:18 PM

Switzerland was definitely a surprise.

So was Australia - You'd expect more of them to own firearms

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#84
In reply to #81

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/14/2009 4:25 PM

Funny how that ban didn't prevent the school shooting a while back. Or the courtroom shooting either.

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#86
In reply to #84

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/14/2009 4:47 PM

Maybe they learnt by seeing the US TV news? Where such happenings are FAR more prevalent.......

That really is "the pot calling the kettle black!".......numbers wise, even comparing "per Capita", the USA has a commanding Lead Position on that score!!!

Remember the statistics I showed you were "Per Capita", comparing apples with apples....

The ACTUAL number of murders in the USA is probably higher than anywhere else in this world.....this is a country that calls itself civilized, but has the US Constitution (Second Amendment) that allows most everyone to bear arms (and to use them!), for several hundred years and never changed it!!!

Have a great day, but do not try to change the facts......or whitewash them....or put up a smoke screen.....on CR4, as that NEVER works, it just brings out the Best (worst?) in us all!!

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#87
In reply to #86

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/15/2009 12:28 AM

Andy, speaking of half-truths and whitewash, don't you think your statistics suffer from classic "coincidence does not equal causation" as well as being multi-variable systems that are not easily comparable to one another? You compare crime rates and gun crime rates between countries that vary widely in laws, demographics, education and socioeconomic factors so much that none of them are truly comparable to each other in any meaningful way. Would it not be more instructive to look at the individual places before and after gun bans have gone into effect? Would that not isolate the one variable, the easy availability of guns, that you are trying to isolate? Let us look at a few and see what we can see shall we?

Lets take Australia for instance, they relatively recently (1996) invoked a firearms ban that included most handguns, rifles and shotguns there, about 650,000 of them according to the Australian Sporting Shooters Association were confiscated and destroyed out of an estimated 10 million privately owned firearms, at a cost of about $500 million Australian dollars. Between 1996 and 2000, crime rose dramatically. By about 45% or more if the sources I've found on the net are reliable. To quote the article:

  • Countrywide, homicides are up 3.2 percent;
  • Assaults are up 8.6 percent;
  • Amazingly, armed robberies have climbed nearly 45 percent;
  • In the Australian state of Victoria, gun homicides have climbed 300 percent;
  • In the 25 years before the gun bans, crime in Australia had been dropping steadily;
  • There has been a reported "dramatic increase" in home burglaries and assaults on the elderly.

Now let's move on to Washington DC where there was a similar ban on guns. Again quoting the article cited:

"Crime rose significantly after the gun ban went into effect. In the five years before Washington's ban in 1976, the murder rate fell from 37 to 27 per 100,000. In the five years after it went into effect, the murder rate rose back up to 35. During this same time, robberies fell from 1,514 to 1,003 per 100,000 and then rose by over 63 percent, up to 1,635. The five-year trends are not some aberration. In fact, while murder rates have varied over time, during the almost 30 years since the ban, the murder rate has only once fallen below what it was in 1976.

These pre-law drops and subsequent increases were much larger than any changes in neighboring Maryland and Virginia. For example, the District's murder rate fell during the same five-year period from 3.5 to 3 times more than in the neighboring states and rose back up after the ban to 3.8 times more."

These are not just two isolated, cherry picked places, these kinds of statistics repeat time and again for every place where gun bans have been tried Andy. The gun is nothing more than a tool, it does not pull it's own trigger, a human must do that (or occasionally a hunting dog, but that is another story... Del will be more than happy to tell you about the evil that is dog, I'm sure....). You can make guns illegal all day long, but a criminal won't care if they are legal or not. He is a criminal, it is his nature to break the law. If he is not concerned about being executed by the state for killing someone, what makes you think he would give a flying frig about violating some gun law?

So as you can see Andy, when you correct for all the other variables, things are not as you would have us believe. Gun bans are virtually universally followed by higher crime rates.

Now to bring this back around to the issue of knives.

We are all sitting here trying to design a "knife", that is not a knife for legal purposes, in order to perform a legitimate and perfectly legal job that Del needs accomplished. And we must do this because some moron of a legislator in the UK has tried to kill a gnat with a sledgehammer and has banned virtually all knives, because we all know that knives have been known to jump up right off a tabletop or out of a belt sheath and kill some innocent bystander of their own volition. Hogwash! It was the holder of the weapon that did that and there is already a law against killing somebody, making a law against the tool he or she chose to use to accomplish the task is frankly asinine in the extreme. Even if the knife were not readily at hand, any number of other objects could be used to accomplish the same task. You cannot possibly ban every single solitary object that could be used as a weapon. So why ban a perfectly good tool simply because it could be used as a weapon? Will we ban pipe wrenches? or pipes? or baseball bats? or golf clubs? Nail guns? Hammers? Nails? Screwdrivers? Scissors? Plastic bags? Rope? Where do you stop? And even then, weapons are mere tools with a legitimate self defense use. Why ban a tool that has a legitimate use simply because a certain segment of a society chooses to use it in an unlawful manner? All you are really doing is making sure that the criminal segment of society is no longer fearful that he or she might choose the wrong victim. They are ALL the right victim now.....

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#100
In reply to #87

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/15/2009 3:44 PM

Do you realize that I quoted statistics from documented sources, with links that you can go and check up on that I was telling the truth. I am unbiased, I let the relevant statistics speak for themselves, its more than enough!

All you have done is posted your personal (very biased and seemingly completely wrong according to some really good sources) opinions again.......no verifiable facts!!!no verifiable facts!!!no verifiable facts!!!no verifiable facts!!!no verifiable facts!!!

Therefore I deem that you are simply not worth reading on this subject, because you cannot be taken seriously.

Maybe its because you seem to have been injected with wrong and unreliable infos.......and you have swallowed the bait, hook, line and sinker.....

Australia has 0.3073 homicides from Firearms, also a very low figure in comparison to the USA, where did you want to go with your inaccurate ramblings about Australia. Position #26 in the table. Their lack of firearms seem to help their statistic.....

You live in a country where homicides from firearms are at 3.6 per 100,000 per year, the UK for example has a percentage that is so low that it does not appear in the first 32 countries......

Here is a quote...which I find interesting and seemingly accurate. I have underlined a comment that appears to describe the USA (and several other countries) exceedingly well:-

If everyone had a gun, you run into a purely statistical problem that a certain fraction will use them wrongly, either drunk, insane or with poor anger control.

More guns more incidents with guns.

No guns, no incident with guns.

Heavily armed societies exist, the more heavily armed they are the more unstable they are. In this case arms are secured for two main reasons, self−defense and for criminal purposes and sometimes these overlap.

The whole document is very interesting!!! Try reading it!!

Assuming the UK is 0.001 less than Singapore (the lowest rate for any country mentioned), then when finding the USA:UK ratio = 3.6 / 0.248 = 145+. Therefore per capita, the USA has over 145 times the Gun related murder rate of the UK - at least that is. It could be far more.......Verifiable fact!!!Verifiable fact!!!Verifiable fact!!!Verifiable fact!!!Verifiable fact!!!

The UK has completely banned pistols and has a very strong firearms laws.....FACT!

I rest my case......

You do not need to answer post from me for several reasons, one it is completely unanswerable from your position, you can only waffle and give opinions.

Two, this blog has got so childish and weird that I am leaving this Blog, you can have it.

Maybe someone else will be interested in your biased/bigoted claims, I am not. I am interested in verifiable facts with references....I have them, but not from you.

Byeeeeee

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#99
In reply to #81

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/15/2009 2:02 PM

Loath as I am to engage in a Second Amendment debate with non-citizens, since I consider it an internal issue, I do have to respond when I run into specious arguments.

How about we look at murder rates internationally, rather than ownership rates?

Iraq is a recent uptick and is at war, Sierra Leone too few samples as well as Angola, Somalia, and Liberia.

I am pretty sure gun ownership is banned in most of these countries.

Even if I cherry-pick this data, the U.S. falls below 50th in this list.

So what is your point again?

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#101
In reply to #99

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/15/2009 4:02 PM

Seemingly you did not read aorunderstand what I wrote, nor did you look at the links I placed in my posts......ask yourself why you did not do that......head in the sand effect?

I am not here to educate people who cannot even be bothered to click on a link and learn some real facts......from unbiased sources.....just because they get uncomfortable!

To put it simply, the USA has too many guns and too many itchy trigger fingers.....it gives you homicide crime rates with firearms that places the USA in the "top 10", in position #8!!!

Someone in this blog (I forget who) wants the 2nd amendment covered as an internal problem, that nobody outside the USA should be able to discuss it even.....now is that "Head in the sand" or simply shame?

Byeeeee

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#102
In reply to #101

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/15/2009 4:25 PM

Yes I followed your links, AND I read your material

AND I was the one who said this was an internal issue

AND I did NOT make the comment about totalitarian governments

But if I look at homicides per 100K I see that our rate is 4X the United Kingdom independent of means including handguns.

So apparently Americans are just much more determined to kill each other than most Brits.

But if we are going to throw numbers back and forth, it would be more useful to look at the actual percentages than the *rankings*.

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#88
In reply to #77

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/15/2009 3:37 AM

"Would it have stopped it Kris? Eh probably not, but it certainly would have slowed it down to some unknown degree"

"certainly" ? Nope - it doesn't follow that gun-toting Jews might have stopped the Holocaust. Bit different now, but then we're not talking guns.

I still say freely available guns don't stop genocide. Gun control may be political in origin, but it's application is in protecting all from the lunatic fringe. Much as I'd like to argue with the NRA on this, it's a bit too off-topic here.

In the UK ;

"Offence: It is an offence for any person, without lawful authority or good reason, to have with him in a public place, any article which has a blade or is sharply pointed except for a folding pocket-knife which has a cutting edge to its blade not exceeding 3 inches."

I must away to sharpen my brolly. If needs be, there's more than (sorry, Del ) one way to skin a cat.

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#89
In reply to #88

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/15/2009 7:15 AM

But kris, it does not protect you from the lunatic fringe. That is my point. The only way to protect you from the lunatic fringe is to gather up all the lunatics. But then you run into the problem of defining "lunatic" and things go downhill from there. Banning knives merely removes a tool that the fringe may use to commit an act that is already illegal. But there are any number of alternate tools readily at hand at any given moment. that glass beer bottle, the chair, the brick, the spitoon, the dart, the steak knife on the table. Where do you draw the line?

As to genocide, I expect Hitler would have not been able to throw nearly as many troops into Russia or Poland and elsewhere if he was busy fighting in the streets of Hamburg and Berlin against an armed and organized Jewish resistance fighting for it's life. He also wouldn't have been so popular at home either I'd wager.

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#92
In reply to #89

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/15/2009 10:31 AM

But kris, it does not protect you from the lunatic fringe

OK, what about numbers massacred by lone gunmen. US stats versus UK ?

Nothing protects you from the lunatic fringe, but you can try limit how many they kill at once. I agree, anything can be used as a deadly weapon - knitting needle, frozen carrot, even a mouthful of expanding foam filler. The difference is that guns and knives are sexed up tools, Rambo style.

The Swiss keep guns locked up at home because that's the way their defence operates. It's also why they have a low rate of gun crime. If there's a collective need to defend, they can all get the gun out the locker and do so in an organized way. Perhaps that's how the 'right to bear arms' was intended to work. DC V Heller was only last year - maybe it's just shuttiing the door after the horse has bolted.

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#91
In reply to #88

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/15/2009 9:52 AM

Hitler Stalin Pol Pot and others killed millions of their own people, regardless of them being Jews or not.

Some megalomaniacs love killing, if only for the self-asserstion of their percieved power, over other people's lives

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#76
In reply to #73

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/14/2009 2:38 PM

The above is not to say that it's rare to see armed people in Israel, on the contrary, many are strapped.

I'm not even sure that in percentages, a lesser part of the population is strapped, compared to the U.S.

It's just that the Law is never lenient about licensing a gun or the circumstance of killing or injuring (mainly because it's based on British law - Israel was once a British colony called Palestine, you know), but as I mentioned, it is in a process of future change, mainly because of the rise in armed crime and terrorism in the last ten years.

Seeing American movies one might get the impression, that the law in the U.S is more lenient about a citizen killing another, than when a policemen is killing a citizen - internal affairs grilling his ass and all that - in that sense, in Israel, every citizen killing or injuring another citizen is being grilled back and forth - like that poor American cop.

Maybe it's because we cannot spare citizens in hordes - the whole of Israel is just seven million people...

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#71
In reply to #64

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/14/2009 11:30 AM

How about a miniature version of a fence post puller? How far are the tips being imbedded, and what type of tree? Maybe if you used really fresh bolts or arrows you can leave them in, let them graft and grow and you can claim you are doing your part for the greening of the world. Can you write that off on taxes as a donation?

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#68

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/14/2009 10:09 AM

With regard to sharpening of say kitchen knives, I have found that the best method is one of those special "plastic things" that have two pieces of Tungsten steel at angles to each other, to "plane" off a small amount of metal from each side of the blade.

(I can make a photo or two if needed, I have no idea what they are called.....they are also quite cheap too)

The resulting, slightly rough, keen edge, cuts through meat and tomato skins like the proverbial "hot knife through Butter!"

Its not as sharp in the same ways as a razor blade is or the like, but its quickly done, needs little skill (which using a steel really does as used badly you can cut yourself or completely ruin the knife's edge....) AND, if you have a really good hard steel knife, it still sharpens it, whereas the knife in question may just ruin a good steel.....(been there and got the T-Shirt! I nearly threw the knife away.....)

If I wanted to cut say balsa wood accurately for a model, this is not the right tool to use to sharpen your knife, an oil stone would be far better. But for everyday kitchen meat & vegetable preparation, its really, really good.

My apologies to you all in the fact that I do not know the correct name for such a sharpener in either language that I have.....!!! If it has a "proper" name....

It also sharpens scissors quite well too!!! Though a purist may be shocked!!!

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#69
In reply to #68

Re: Knife Material and Blade Sharpening

04/14/2009 10:13 AM

How about the Shark:

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