Does the Human Body Store Electrical Charges?

I just ran into a lady that has this condition and it may be due to HEMOCHROMATOSIS which is an extremly high iron content in her blood. She cannot wear a watch of any kind due to malfunction and she even sets off metal detectors. I have not even looked up the condition mentioned but thought it was interesting since I made previous comments that it was not electricity stored but an energy field causing the phenomonen. Please ignore any spelling errors.

Hello hammy,[p]

You say you "run into a lady".................. were you attracted to her? Sorry could not resist it.

This is still just a story. I have looked at several sites on the disease you said the woman you mention has, HEMOCHROMATOSIS, or 'iron accumulation'? Now the disease can be treated with MRI (Magnetic Resonance Imagine).

I saw no evidence of the body with extra iron damaging any electrical objects at all.

This is perhaps getting a bit silly but a brand new watch or other electronics should be given to anyone who thinks they find these items break on contact almost. What's the betting nothing untoward happens? Maybe to double check and for 'over kill', ten different make watches should be straped to a person who claims they generally break on them. If there is something, which I just do not believe, which is breaking all these items, surely 100% will break? How silly.

Take care

Hello light,[p]

Yes That has to be the case. No one can know everything right? I mean know every song in the world........ well, in every language, I doubt it. etc etc.

Perhaps that's why specialists are so called? You can only hope to understand a subject well enough to answer anything with ref' to it. That is fair. But where you get someone who is 'an expert' in half a dozen things, I would beware!

Take care and thanks for the reply post my friend

Here we are.. the people with the watch ruining electrical charges all showing up in one place.

Go figure that one!

JL Mealer

Were is Sparkstation when you need him.

Sparkstation? Is this a new superhero?

Not quite.

http://cr4.globalspec.com/member?u=11216

Have we determined yet that we're just a bunch of walking capacitors?

Jack and JL,

How about a cold shower and posting on other threads for a few days? This is just some silly post about an old urban legend and ain't worth getting so worked up.

TVP45,

The post shears some useful insights about the human energy, some thing to know about and share, but the discussions were mislead to a wrong direction. Good and polite note.

Not worked up, just curious as I have seen watches stop working on some persons arms! Nobody seems to know the reason.

Watches stop. Who knows why. But, the point is the tiny amount of electrical energy in a human cannot possibly stop a watch. You can do experiments with watches and electricity to prove this - I have.

How about simply banging the hell out of them.

Not so much now but the faces of my watches used to get all scratched up and it wasn't because of body electrical energies.

j.

After asking 27 NearDeathExperiencers if they wear a watch, about 80% said no. Most say they do not wear watches because they mysteriusly stop working. Some say their watches work fine when they don't wear them. I originally read about this phenomenon in a Melvin Morse, M.D. book ("Transformed by the Light" page 142). I originally thought he had to be crazy when he wrote "One-fourth of a study population that mysteriously stops watches is astonishing, especially compared to the other groups we studied." When I read that, I stopped reading his book. I thought he was being absurd if not lying. Up to that point, I had enjoyed his book. But now I'm a convert. If you know of any NDEers, just ask them two non-leading questions: 1) Do you wear a watch? 2) Why not? The vast majority of NDEers are not aware of this phenomenon and they don't connect their watch problem with their NDE. Morse says 4% of normal adults and 2% of out-of-body experiencers claim they make watches stop. I just found this article while studying the iron overload information. Makes it all the more confusing. But interesting. Both symptoms seem not related.

I'm sorry to say this Roy but when your own numbers don't agree with your own story, how can you be taken seriously.

"After asking 27 NearDeathExperiencers if they wear a watch, about 80% said no." That comes to 21 or 22 NDE don't wear watches. "Most say they do not wear watches because they mysteriusly stop working." So if this "they" are the subset of non watch wearers at least 11 stop watches. "One-fourth of a study population that mysteriously stops watches is astonishing, especially compared to the other groups we studied." But one fourth of 27 is just under 7, not 11. OK maybe a different sample group. "Morse says ... 2% of out-of-body experiencers claim they make watches stop." But 2% of 27 individuals would have an expected population of just above a half a person. So with 27 NDE, Morse would expect either one or none of the individuals would stop a watch. You've presented three quoted sample groups that show no correlation in a simple analysis. The numbers are not even close. At best you've proven that you have anecdotal evidence that does not correlate. At worst your trying to deceive us.

Did you seriously think that mathematics would be beyond the participants of an Engineering blog?

At the risk of stirring up some political maelstrom (What exactly do Tory and Whig political views have to do with electricity?), I want to point out that the human body contains NO significant electrical energy. Those of us who have worked with instrumenting any of the various biomedical measurements are used to using very expensive, high gain charge amplifiers and such because those signals are so small. There's not enough electricity in there to blow a gnat's brains out, let alone power anything.

The quantity to be looked at is not charge or Voltage but Volts/meter if we're looking for something that has an external effect. You can easily take a whole human being (including a wrist watch) and run him up to 100,000 V without any ill effect. It happens all the time, usually at a much lower Voltage.

Welders can have watch problems if they arc weld. It has nothing to do with their body.

Magic!

RVZ,

Evidence?

j.

Jack

You have just broken a land speed world record for lack of humor. Amazing!

Evidence?

k.

Nope. You have just demonstrated that you fail to understand my humor, because I know he was joking, in elevating humor to a very important conceptual issue, something I am often wont to do.

j.

Are you asking for evidence of magic?

Well, that my friend would get me thrown right out of the society of magical persons.

Wow. I never thought I would see a thread full of people with this problem. I had this problem years ago and finally gave up trying to wear a watch (mechanical or digital). No clue as to the reason, but it didn't have anything to do with welding. Or other exposure to electrical charges afaik.

I have only one thing to add to what has been said: that there are also people with the opposite effect. My son, actually, has a wierd affinity with machines. They malfunction when I am around, but they mysteriously start to work again when he gets near them. It was a bit of a household joke. You ask him to fix something and, well, when he goes to examine it, it's working just fine.... Back in the watch days, I guess he was in his teens, we were living in the same house so it wasn't anything in the environment causing my watch fatalities. I brought him several of my dead watches and asked him (as a joke) to wear them or keep em about his person for a bit, and he did in fact revive several of these watches, not by tinkering (which he's also very good at) but just by holding them or putting them on a shelf in his room. One of them was borrowed, I returned it to the owner in working condition, and as far as I know it continued to work. The ones I took back, unfortunately, didn't last.

I do hope you guys can figure out a practical solution to this one. I really liked wearing a watch. I would wear one again, if I could.

Artsmith,

What do you do for a living or for recreation? Your name suggests answers.

I would suggest putting on a watch that is working and then record everything you do while wearing it. I mean everything.

The problem is certainly material, and probably related to your activities, not the mystic garbage being posted here as reasons.

j.

Jack,

It's a fact I presently earn my living by adding value to objects raw materials by hitting them with a hammer. That sort of activity could be hard on a watch (not what I was doing back then though).

Some likely variables were pointed out - pH for one makes sense. Static electric charges are another. And, even if you had to push it to the point of a quantum physics explanation, that would still be a material reason. It seems to me that enough people have reported the same oddity here, that we could actually try to collect meaningful data and solve the "mystery".

Or, maybe we should just get together for a holiday - do a group tour of London or something (the Tower, Big Ben... )

I didn't mean to advance any "mystic garbage" as a reason, but I take such comments as all in fun. As for the story I told, we had a few laughs over it at the time and that's why I posted it. (see Gary Larson "Appliance Healers" cartoon - drat his cartoons are never online but here's a picture on similar theme).

cheers.

Hello art,

I know London England quite well. I can show you round? It all depends if I am in the UK when you come over. That arrangement is only if religious is not mentioned!

Very creative and very funny.

j.

I doubt that stored electricity has anything to do with the watch failures.

If he wore a watch while welding, the high currents and corresponding magnetic field would probably cause problems.

On an Al pot line, anyone foolish enough to enter wearing a watch or with something like a video camera can expect to emerge with a useless piece of junk in it's place.

Anyone with a pacemaker is warned against welding or working near reasonably high DC currents (eg tuning a car).

People can generate very high electrostatic charges with no harm. I have drawn a spark of about 6" from my fingers during winter at Mt Isa (very dry air, charge builds up as you walk on carpet). However, there are always plenty of things which will rapidly discharge you so this charge is only temporary.

I have known people who can't wear an electronic watch because it is rapidly wrecked, but I'm afraid I have no idea why. Is it some interaction with transients as their nervous system operates? I can't think of anything else, but would doubt the transients would be large enough to cause trouble.

As this only seems to occur with a handful of people, some transient phenomenon may well be acting, but who knows?

I await suggestions with interest.

Actually, the assertion that there is a problem is only anecdotal. Perhaps there are a hundred problems.

No one has done a study and so there is no data. All we have are assertions.

j.

There definitely is a problem. Defining it is also a problem. I have done lots of tests and have a ton of, useless to me, data that shows no electrical charges of any kind. I have access to a lot of high end test equipment. So far none of it shows anything. I still can mess with electronics just by passing my hand near them, Yet no measurable voltage.

Please re-read post 44. There is definitely evidence that something is going on. I just don't know what it is. I really doubt it is electrical but have no answer as to what is actually happening. My next test is going to be using hall effect sensors. Even thought I have no idea of how someone could carry a magnetic field without an electrical one, it is worth checking. I have a friend with one of those fancy mirrors in his truck that shows the direction you are heading digitally. It has not worked since I touched the mirror about two weeks ago. That is why I am looking into trying some new experiment with hall effect sensors.

I have gone thru two cell phones since I put up post 44 in this thread. I am now carrying my cell phone in a mylar anti-static bag, in a leather bag outside my belt yet I still kill them. Thank goodness for cell phone insurance. They have no physical damage and have not gotten wet, yet they die for some reason. It is not coincidence anymore. Not after over 50 years of dealing with this issue.

Perhaps you are a capacitor?

Hello silvCrow,

Hope you are well.

Do you think your body may be inducing a static charge when close to anything with Electro Magnetic output? And as you touch something as you move the static is and you are grounded?

I worked in a building which was almost all steel set 5 ft above the ground. It was built from RSG's (Rolled Steel Girders) and the floor supports were steel box. We were maintaining the inside and out and the owner complained of sparks passing between them and the walls, and especially from the light switches in the long hallways.

It The sparking happened when I walked through and turned out to be the nylon carpet!............. Sorry if "Nylon" is known as something other than that)! After a new woollen carpet was laid there was no problems. It was a very unique building and I wonder if this problem could have been prevented by some kind of 'earthing' or 'grounding' of the house and or the cabling, other than the usual grounding.

This building stood on RSJ's (Rolled Steel Girders) concreted into the ground. I did not know enough then to check for an alternative way of the grounding of this building or cables.

I had the static measured on me and it was about (I think) at least 10,000 volts.

Take care............

Babybear,

I don't get sparked very often,. Sometimes in the winter when its dry, but this has almost never been an issue for me. I work in a cinder block building that i did most of the design work for the microelectronics department. We have multiple parallel grounds for each lab. Static has never been an issue at work. Getting a phone signal in my office is an issue. I honestly can not remember the last time I got or gave a static spark. Oregon has high humidity most of the year. I lived in New Mexico before here and had no static spark issues there either.

Seriously I have never measured anything above 0.1 volts anywhere on my body from any two points since I started this "study". I have very low internal resistance. With dry hands I measure around 4k ohms from hand to hand using a fluke 87 meter. Most of my students measure 300k to 400k ohms or higher from dry hand to dry hand.

I have them measure themselves as part of electrical safety training. They measure both wet and dry. Surprisingly the lowest readings almost always come from women.

I have tried this experiment using a cap in each hand to see if there was some kind of discharge. I have tried several methods of putting my hand onto the base of a transistor to see if will turn on. nothing. It only takes 0.7 volts to turn on most transistors. I have never even gotten a short pulse thru a transistor.- I have the transistor wired to a flip flop that turns on an led- at least in theory this should work but I can't get it to.

I really don't think the phenomena is electrical.

As I wrote in another post. I have used a pico amp meter to try and find any kind of charge and get nothing. I have tried spectrum analysis from dc to well into the giga hertz range. All show nothing. I can charge myself up a small amount using an ohm meter and then reversing the leads. I seem to dissipate this charge very quickly. If I wait just 30 seconds before grabbing the leads reversed the effect is gone.

Hi silvCrow,

Thanks for your reply post my friend. Sounds like you have almost exhausted any tests?

I am pleased this the place I mentioned had no gas!

So you can prove it is not static? And it is surprising that women are 'more highly charged'? Any idea why?

You say you really don't think the phenomena is electrical? What do you think it is then?

Thanks again.............

Sounds like you've done some good lab work. Have you measured any other family members for this effect? Do you have any other chronic anomalies?

Perhaps the cause is misdirected 'Chi' energy. You may be a Gravity focus, or well. You may have to invent an apparatus to measure it. I would get an acupuncturist and a Tai Chi Master to aid in the lab. Gold leaf instruments, Kirlan photography, insect behavior, vapor mists, ???

Qualify it, quantify it, and let me know when you're up for a Nobel.

Tippycanoe,

If there are no material manifestations what is there to "Qualify...[or] quantify."

If you know of some other natural phenomena the measuring of which we have to invent instruments for, you have first to define what we are trying to measure.

Please...what is "'Chi' energy." Please describe how one "may be a Gravity focus, or well."

I thought alchemy had been discredited. Have I missed something. Have its methods and means of thinking been reinstated as part of scientific thinking?

j.

Jack,

Our modern world is full of now measurable phenomenon that was previously UNK. Can you see in the ultraviolet, hear radio waves, smell pheromones, touch a memory, taste a rainbow? Take away the specific sense required and you would not be able to understand any of this. We are only lacking the proper instruments.

The effects of Chi energy are well documented, usually in Chinese circus acts, but other areas as well. Kirlan Photography records Chi as a life force that diminishes over time once the subject is dead.

Just because YOU haven't seen it, does not mean it does not exist. I suspect that if you opened your investigations further you would be surprised by what IS known and documented.

Until then your gainsaying is little more than a rant against change. Luckily the next generation takes these studies a little more seriously. That's progress.

Tippycanoe,

I take it you are not aware that is the argument of the snake oil salesman.

j.

"The effects of Chi energy are well documented, usually in Chinese circus acts, but other areas as well."

Incidentally Tippycanoe, I asked you to tell us just what Chi energy is, not how well documented it is.

If it is well documented it ought to be describable. Tell us what it is, aside from a joke in a Chinese circus act.

j.

Jack,

I will do my best to describe the indescribable: Chi is essentially the life force, 'that which animates', holds upright, goes forth, gathers, and can be gathered. It's essentially 'Intent'. It travels through the 'Void', which is no time, no place, and is therefore instantaneous. To understand 'The Void' you need to bone up on Quantum Physics. Quantum physicists call this a vacuum, but things may exist which are subject to time in a vacuum. No such thing exists in the void as such. The QP's will tell you that this is all very complicated and relies on a Gestalt, a new paradigm, and just a bit of craziness to even begin to grasp.

Like the idea that the chair that you are sitting in is not really there. The distances between sub atomic particles is on par with the distances between the sun and the planets, between the stars, and between galaxies. You can break a brick with a hammer, but your hand never touches the hammer, nor does the hammer ever hit the brick. Chi gets in between before that happens.

So the whole universe and everything in it is a fuzzy edged idea held together by its own idea of existence, in which anything can happen. silvCrow simply wants to be 'Normal', which is a kind of stasis where very little happens. It seems the universe has given this conundrum to silvCrow to figure out, apparently a new experiment, for which he is responsible given that he seems qualified to search for the right way to resolve the 'problem' Go silvCrow!

Jack, I have a woman here that has been following this whole thread. She can be a real pain in the ass, and wants to know if she can move in with you just to aggravate you. She thinks you might want to meet her cousin Beauhla too. A real hell raiser. Between the two of them you'll get a new grasp of reality.

Nonsense!

As you point out, although you attempt otherwise, you cannot "describe the indescribable." By your own definition it is "indescribable."

A real, material thing, even if previously unknown, becomes describable when its own physical manifestations are detectable and ultimately measurable.

Despite all the verbiage about watches and such and many different claims, nobody has detected, in that regard, anything that is measurable and hence describable. All there is are many and variant claims of one or another phenomenon.

Most of the phenomena that you previously claimed cannot be sensed can indeed be sensed and hence we not only sense them, we describe them, we measure them.

The rest of it is of the nature of word games just as the attempts to describe and therefore prove the existence of a god or many gods, depending on whom you are talking to.

SilvCrow asserts a lot of things that are obviously garbage. So do you.

In attempting to assuage me as to so-called Chi you have just regressed to another indescribable term, the so-called "life force." I could play the game and ask you to prove and define that.

Its a waste of time.

For those who are here and confused by this nonsense some here promulgate, the key always is evidence, material, concrete evidence, data.

Even the physicists whose language Tippycanoe tries to rally behind his empty verbiage, when through the application of mathematics they think they have discovered something new, they recognize there is a need to produce evidence of such. That is why they have invested billions of dollars in the Large Hadron Collider, to prove that their mathematical conclusions, drawn from previous data of actual, concrete, material phenomena, have material reality, i.e., that the Higgs Boson is not just a mathematical computation, a mental creation, but real.

All the rest is garbage or worse, snake oil.

j.

Incidentally Tippycanoe, I asked you to tell us just what Chi energy is, not how well documented it is.

Hi Jack

I see you are at it again. Good on you, keep the blokes honest. I'll just have my little say and see what you can make of it.

I am not sure if any one of you have ever solved problems by dreaming about them. It just happened to me last night and has happened before. Not just little problems but very complicated processes of near unthinkable substance. I should have recorded it on video but we all know that can't be done.

Never the less, the resulting findings are still applicable now, in the real world. Looking back on some sketches I made yesterday, I nearly had it, just could not see the forest for the trees. Not just a simple solution to a very, very complex problem but a practical one and considering an aspect that I had not had in/on my plans.

I suppose this has happened to a lot of us and it has happened to me many times before. Not that I can control it but it just materializes from that un-recordable but memorable space that we call dreamland. Just because I can't show you a recording, of whatever kind, does not mean it has not materialized. The proof is in the pudding and it is right in front of me. It was there all the time but needed that [("Chi?")] aspect to come to the surface and show its beautiful simple face.

I can still remember dreams were I woke up from electric shocks I received while trying to touch the objects that were giving me problems during the day, including the undesirable after effects of such shocks once awake.

I can also remember, while writing music, that solutions to unsatisfactory chord progressions would be solved while dreaming, reproducible in an instant the very next day or jump out of bed and play it so I would not forget. That can be very annoying, to having had a solution and not being able to carry it over from "dreamlando" and let it materialize or record in some way.

I don't care what you or others think about this but I am happy to have this "tool" and wish I could have it at my disposal at will. We can't have it all, can we.

Proof? No need, I'll just except it as something given to me. You don't check the teeth of a gifted horse, do we?

Jack, I appreciate your down to earth approach, really, but there are things that can't be explained but still be harvested and put to good use. If, in the future, I need a head of the complaints department you will be my first choice. What do you reckon, could we be in the same building with out sparks flying?

Have a great day and keep at it. Were there is light there is shadow, for ever, Ky.

Hello ky,

How are you my friend?

I do not have that much to say,..........unusual for me!..........

I am still waiting, as you are, for 'PROOF' of chi. Unless I missed it there has not been anything posted. This is such a long thread I aint going to look for it. But I recall 'chi' was said to continue in the body several tens of years after death? Well,............... The scientifically provable usually has a reason for 'being'! What can this chi after death be there for, and, if as has been said it IS there, would there not be a written paper on it somewhere?

I am in no way whatsoever religious. I do not believe in any so called god, so I am hardly likely to believe in 'chi' am I ?

Some things were not known, and others thought to be ridiculous, akin to witch craft, in the 'dark' years before 'scientific invention and proof'

From approximately 15 Century, onto the 19 Centuries, discoveries quickened and proved to exist as was other 'new' discoveries like the connection between light, radio, and 'electricity' 'waves'. Sorry, (I cannot recall the name of the full spectrum, unless I just mentioned it by saying "spectrum")?

Inventions followed discoveries of course, but these discoveries were always written and presented in detail, and exhibited to the 'public'. I do not recall any mention of the 'broken watch' theory? Sorry, I could not resist a little 'leg pulling'. ;=) It has been mentioned by several on here about watches and other electromechanical devices stopping simply because they were worn out!

If 'chi' and or any other 'odd' happenings really are viable then it has to be provable. I do not believe in this kind of 'magic' but, will keep an open mind on some things (not including broken watches)! Please, whom ever mentioned the 'chi' thing get back to me/us with third party written evidence. Just think................. 'wind' cannot be seen, only the result of its actions.

I am Jack's side here. There I hardly think it a subject to 'fall out' over.

Take care to all.....................

To all those concerned about CHI energy.

I have noted endless debates on possibility of CHI energy, a Chinese name for the spiritual electrical charge energy of the human body system. This energy is explained as KUNDALINI power in the Indian Vedas and all human efforts to de locate its presence from the bottom chakkras to the head for gaining and activating to higher level of spirituality[ the coiled snake power].

Though not the developers made much of scientific evidences, I happened to go for a programme called SKY[ simplified kundalini yoga] developed by his highness Yogi Vedathiri Maharishi of INDIA. It is all about activating and operating facility of the coiled energy[CHI or KUNDALINI] from the bottom muladhara chakkra, further up thro' sexual glands, adrenalin, anadhaga, thyroids, pituitary and pine al glands at will. He had evolved a scientific technic of erupting, operation at will by dwelling at various chakkras , protecting and nurturing the life force energy for good health and elevated mental levels. Scientifically the energy is connected to astral body, the electronic energy operating the body. For example the astral body is ejected in case of extreme fear, anger from the body base due to excess adrenalin operation and each ductless gland has got specific protection mechanism.

Those who have good health implies that their CHI energy is at good level and glands work well even up to the extent of donation to weaker others. By hand touch with sick person in fact we are passing our CHI to his system. Have we ever felt the magic touches of elderly persons at moments of our depressions, anger etc, How smooth the touch and convincing it is. The boss touching his subordinate in emotion,or friendly touch, we can find the effect what it can do about. CHI energy is the invisible life energy being at the circuitry operative levels with the ductless glands and is to be felt by practice and not for an obvious scientific interpretation.

ONE MORE WORD OF CAUTION- you got to practice it, with the help of a well versed expert who can teach how to control and operate it.

To the best of my knowledge and understanding CHI/ KUNDALINI energy is true and by good practices one can improve his health and AURA and serve as an elevated level minded personalty. Understanding is a better option than arguments about it.

Hi udhay,

Your post seems to have proven that 'chi' has something to do with religion. The mention of 'his highness Yogi etc................... I bet he charges for his teaching! How can a person 'practise this, as you suggest? It is like juggling sand. Complete nonsense to all but those believers. Some of which make a 'very nice living thank you'!

You have tried and in my opinion have given yet another 'opinion' of what you thing 'chi' is. Is there a printed page anywhere, that is more that someone trying to 'sell themselves' to an audience? I page that can prove any remarks given against it?

I really do not care about someone's thoughts (as observations). You look foolish in giving 'an idea' of what 'chi' is like. Are you saying it is like love?

What is this rubbish of a boss touching his worker or similar?

You say one should practice this giving of 'chi'? Just how do you propose that, assuming, someone like me who thinks it is rubbish., and I do not know what it is or what it does, how can I 'practice', meaning "to get better at giving it"? Other than those who say they possess it, is there really anyone out there who can move someone, or alter another's state of mind with this nonsense? The only 'way' I can see this is as a religion. Which is completely subjective.

I mean no offence in this but, unless you can show me in print something other than a 'belief', you have no 'convert' in me my friend.

Baby bear, Greetings.

I have gone through your comments. Well because of the unseen form of life energy it is called the sukshma meaning unseen. I was also an unbeliver like you based on the mere reading of spiritual books which describe this CHI energy. My guru taught this art world wide and millions of people around the world are trained and benefitted by practizing SKY meditation. I swear it is worth knowing by indulging. I did it and improved myself in many aspects including creative thinking.

You can try the web site SKY, or world peace organization. I am here to share a genuine experience which I confirmed that what is said in scriptures is totally true.

This is a world wide organization and all practices are scientifically tried, tested and guarenteed. My request is enquire at your country level and it will be my pleasure to have your feed back post. Please don't conclude off hand.Regards.

NOT INTERESTED IN FAIRY TALES!

While it is clearly helpful for those who need CHI alignment, tuning, recognition, response or whatever the correct term is in English for this Eastern Philosophy, it certainly is way off topic from the original question. CHI if it exists is not an electrical charge. It may flow like an electric charge but it does not respond to Maxwell's equations. This is an engineering forum for engineers. This thread has grown far beyond the original question in multiple directions. If anyone wishes to start a separate thread on how Eastern Philosophies do or don't merge with accepted engineering practices, I recommend trying the "Start a Discussion" button to the right.

Redfred,

I would respectfully disagree insofar as this thread did start from an attempt to assert a phenomenon, albeit unexplained, that affects engineered products adversely, i.e., watches.

One of the problems that engineers face is the maintenance behind engineering of concepts derived from the sciences.

Indeed, we have, in other threads, heard from actual engineers, or from craftspeople who actually apply engineered concepts to material objects, some of the most absurd, from a scientific point of view, nostrums. The many ideas concerning perpetual motion machines, or the energy equivalent, are example.

Unfortunately, some practicing engineers are not immune to some of these nostrums.

So while in one sense you are correct, this discussion is off topic, in another sense, i.e., the line between mystic nostrums, and the solid sciences underlying good engineering, should greatly concern engineers who do not want to see their practice degraded.

Indeed, as you have no doubt read, one of those posting to this thread with some of the most outrageous assertions, appears if we take him at his word, to be a software engineer.

So while you are right in general I think it is good practice in terms of engineering and scientific concept, to meet and refute these nostrums wherever we find them.

I think especially when this site hears from folks in less fortunate countries who have not had as good an education as some in the so-called "advanced" countries, that in general these discussions are of great benefit.

I myself am not a degreed engineer and do not hold a higher learning certificate from any university. I have spent many years in industry as a maintenance technician and peruse these pages because of my continuing interest in such subjects as well as the sciences behind them and am especially intrigued by those who while in fact being engineers also subscribe to some of these outworld notions.

Indeed, I think grappling with this stuff is of value to all including the engineers who constitute the heart of this site. As a result I think the artificial shifting of discussions that arise as did this one out of some nonesensical claims would do a disservice to all.

I sure would not go looking for a thread given over to failed watches but benefit when we come across such notions in the context of real engineering issues.

Purity, like the search for human body storage of electricity, is not to found nor created no matter how much one tries.

j.

P.S. All,

Pardon any spelling errors. I don't know if the spell checker is resident with CR4 or on my PC but it is not working.

j.

Hello Jack,[p]

I applaud your thought with ref' to this site, and your personal references about yourself.

I too come here with an interest in Engineering, and to start of on an 'engineering' type thread and get waylaid by someones thoughts and personal (in my mind) 'riligious' speak on a completely different subject which has nothing to do with engineering at all, is not correct. Not correct for the person/s with those thoughts or not honest with the 'engineer types' here, which is what the site is called........an "Engineering site"

I am alone here, and all the rest of my Family in this great Country the USA, (my personal oppinion are religious nuts and try to 'pass me' religion whenever they write or phone. I am not interested in "fairey stories". That is why I come here because, most of the discussion is with reference to engineering in all its various types.[p]

By the way Jack, There was just one spelling 'error' in your last post.

Where you say:..... "Unfortunately, some practicing engineers".......

(Should be: practising). I know I would have made a whole lot more mistakes! Have you mentioned this spelling problem to admin? There may be the start of another fault?................

I just tried to spell check mine and it did not work.

Take care Jack.

Silvcrow,

"There definitely is a problem. Defining it is also a problem. I have done lots of tests and have a ton of, useless to me, data that shows no electrical charges of any kind."

Let's see. You cannot define a problem. You have done lots of tests that shows nothing of use to you.

Problems are usually defined by data which you do not have and nobody has offered except now another anecdotal by you.

How can you continue to assert there is a problem unless it is just a problem of mind, albeit many minds describing many different things, all anecdotal without material evidence.

Pardon me for being hard nosed but somewhere along the way here I acquired a scientific mode of thought.

If you cannot define a problem than you have no data, i.e., nothing but a subjective matter of mind.

j.

I can define the problem. I temporarily magnetize metal object and I kill electronics by touching them. My problem is discovering how when I can find no evidence it is electrical. Maybe my testing procedures are wrong but I am at a loss to explain how.

In my opinion it is you who refuses understand what is written. I am not lying. These things do happen. I would be much happier if I did not go thru cell phones faster than quick lunches. I would love to not kill battery power in just about anything I touch. It would be nice to go back to a 2 times higher paying job at Intel but there is no chance they will hire me after they discovered I mess with matching networks just by walking past them. They did have this on film at one time. I really don't understand how in your mind that is not evidence of something unexplained going on.

Hello silvCrow,

I know of know 'magnetism' in a human body which can move the needed in this explanation on the site below. If you can make a needle move then there is something going on.

I got the impression you were saying you were 'magnetising' street light poles. Is that correct? I actually thought that things which are magnetic are magnetic or not. No 'in between phase'. Plus, you would need an awful lot of magnetic power to get a street light pole magnetised. I paste a link that might or might not help.....

=

http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2000-02/950296280.Bc.r.html

=

Take care my friend.

I was actually referring to screwdrivers and stainless blades when I said I magnetize things temporarily. I do a have a swiss army knife with a stainless blade that is slightly magnetised. It did not come that way. I no longer use this knife as a daily carry. one of the plastic side panels came off and it started putting holes in my pockets. Magnetizing screwdrivers is just about the only benefit in this issue.

I just grabbed a compass from my store room and put my hands around it. The needle does not move at all. I then grabbed a screw driver and I can now push the needle around. Its an xcelite brand. When I held it by the plastic handle the compass needle does not move. if I hold it by the metal i can make the compass go in circles. Now that have held the metal insert even when I put it back in the handle the screwdriver will push the compass needle around just not as strongly.

I just grabbed a long metal immersion(stainless?) thermometer. When I first started moving it around the compass nothing happened in about 30 seconds I could get the compass needle to spin in circles.

If it was electrical my hand would have moved the compass needle. SO why does the needle move when i hold something metal? What is happening in the thermometer that changes from not effecting the compass needle to effecting it in 30 seconds?

The thermometer has eight inches of small diameter stainless(?) rod attached to a plastic "head" with a sheath for the metal part. it is nist traceable and is made by the control company(china) offices in Friendswood Texas 77546. I don't find a part number on it.

The effect goes away if I hold it by the sheath.

That is todays experiment. enjoy and believe what you want. I have no explanation for these observations.

Hello silvCrow,

My first thought on the first sentence is, was the tool like the knife/gadget, magnetised through contact with magnetic screws?

The other finding I cannot explain. But many thanks for getting back to me.

Take care.

Silvcrow,

"I can define the problem. I temporarily magnetize metal object and I kill electronics by touching them. My problem is discovering how when I can find no evidence it is electrical. Maybe my testing procedures are wrong but I am at a loss to explain how."

You do indeed have a problem. What you have written is incomprehensible.

Are you saying that you temporarily magnetize metal objects by touching them?

What kind of metal objects? Copper ones, tin ones? Lead ones? Iron ones? Stainless steel ones?

Let's leave aside for the moment that I don't believe you if you claim to magnetize metal objects by touching them.

Nor do I believe you "kill electronics by touching them" although you have not again told us what kind of electronics you "kill."

All that aside your story is about as weird as any that have been posted here. It is but one of many different stories. In that case how can you say "something unexplained is going on" rather than many unexplained things are going on.

Of course the truth is that in this universe in which we are less than a speck there are many unexplained things going on but they usually are more closely tied than the stuff about watches and human bodies storing electric charges or the stuff you claim to be party too.

j.

Certainly Silvcrow's comment that he/she "kill electronics by touching them" must be an exaggeration. For if it were precise, there would not be any messages here from him/her. Most electronics will be detected as dead when people touch them. That's how we test to see if the electronic device works. This type of innocent exaggeration mixed with anecdotal evidence leads people to jump to the wrong conclusions that illusionists and con-men thrive on.

Redfred,

So right. I let the obvious go to see who else would pick up on it.

Want to bet he watches TV, drives a car (Which nowadays depends on complicated electronics), and uses a telephone, cell or otherwise.

j.

Jack,

I've done the experiment. Electric charge does not stop watches. Perhaps something else (bad karma, ugly socks, or UFO's) does, but electric charge doesn't. If you want it repeated, send me a watch and I'll do it again.

Cheers.

Hello TVP45,

I thought it could have possibly effected the battery and damaged the circuit from static going through the battery and electronics?

Take care...........

TVP,

I wanted first to ascertain that you had some idea of science.

You have done so by doing the experiment.

You also now affirm that there is no material evidence of a problem except possibly "something else," i.e., "(bad karma, ugly socks, or UFO's)" all issues of state of subjective mind.

Hence, to science, no material evidence (like assertions as to god, sorcerers, and other assorted mystical things), no problem, just subjective imaginings.

j.

If well substantiated anecdotal evidence shows a problem, the fact that we cannot yet explain it does not mean it is subjective, simply no one has yet thought up a testable hypothesis that stands up to experiment.

Denying there is a problem because we can't explain it is completely unscientific and irrational. Reminds me of the story of the Greek philosophers discussing how many teeth a horse should have. They kicked out the man who suggested finding a horse and counting them!

There is a problem.

No one so far seems to have come up with a solution.