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problem with 30yr old well pump system

11/27/2009 5:01 PM

I WAS GIVEN A CALL BY A FREIND OF ME WHEN HIS WELL PUMP PACKED UP.WE TALKED OVER THE PHONE AND WAS TOLD THE WELL WAS 30MTR DEEP AND THE HOUSE WAS 60MTR ABOVE THAT.WHEN I GOT THERE I FOUND THAT FOR 30YRS THIS HOLE SYSTEM WITH OUT ONE PROBLEM HAD RUN ON A SINGLE PHASE .75 HP ELECTRIC PUMP MADE IN ITALY.IT WORKED BY HAVING A TWIN OUTLET MANIFOLD THE TWIN OUTLETS WERE 1INCH TUBE ONE WENT TO THE HOUSE.THE OTHER WENT DOWN THE WELL.THE PUMP INLET WAS 2INCH.WE REMOVED THE PUMP AND PULLED THE PIPE WORK UP.BOTH PIPES WERE JOINTED AT THE BASE IN A ONE PIECE CASTING.THE 1INC PIPE CONECTED INTO THE 2INCH PIPE ON THE SIDE THEN 3INCHES LOWER ON THE 2INCH PIPE THERE WAS A NONE RETURN VALVE.SO AS THE PUMP FORCED THE WATER DOWN THE WELL AS IT HIT THE LAGER PIPE THE PRESSURE DIFFRENCE CAUSED A SIPTHON EFFECT AND FORCED MORE WATER UP TO TOP AND EXSESS WATER WAS FED UP TO HOUSE.THE LOWER CAST WAS CORRODED AND UNUSABLE.HAS ANY BODY ELSE SEEN ANY THING LIKE THIS.THE PUMP COMPANY RECOMENDS A 6HP 3PHASE PUMP TO DO THE SAME JOB?.I HAVE FOUND OUT THE ORIGINAL DESIGNE PRINSIBLE IS 400YR OLD ARIBIC.IS THERE A EXACT PRINCIBLE WITH THE 2 TO 1

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#1

Re: problem with 30yr old well pump system

11/27/2009 6:14 PM

I had never heard of that design, but it sounds quite efficient. Have you looked to see if any similar designs exists today or track the original manufacturer?

p911

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#2

Re: problem with 30yr old well pump system

11/27/2009 6:54 PM

Its a common in well jet pump system. Most of the big brand residential and commercial water pump manufactures make a system like you have. Its cheap, simple and very effective. The guys recommending you get a 6 Hp pump have their greedy little heads up their asses.

If you chose to convert over to a submersible you would need a 1 HP multistage with an honest 120 meter head capacity or better. Thats a very common design also. However be aware that they are about 3.75 inches in diameter and need a well casing that got at least an honest 4 inches of clearance all the way down to where the pump sits.

Just do an online search for jet pumps and you will find loads of deep well jet systems to chose from. However you may need to change to a new pump head unit possibly in order to keep the jet and pump head set up properly matched.

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#9
In reply to #2

Re: problem with 30yr old well pump system

11/29/2009 4:05 PM

this is Spain every ones greedy.thanks for the heads up on submersable pump.can pick one up at a good price.but my freinds now obssed with the original system.i can not blame him with the calcium and other minrels in the water here the average life span of a submersable is about 3yrs.

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#3

Re: problem with 30yr old well pump system

11/27/2009 7:05 PM

I take the liberty to edit this this question thus:

I was given a call by a friend of mine when his well pump backed up. We talked over the phone, and I was told the well was 30 m deep and the house was 60 m above that. When I got there I found that for 30 yr this whole system without one problem had run on a single phase 0.75 hp electric pump made in Italy. It worked by having a twin outlet manifold; the twin outlets were 1-inch tube; one went to the house, the other went down the well. The pump inlet was 2-inch. We removed the pump and pulled the pipework up. Both pipes were joined at the base in a one-piece casting. The 1-inch pipe connected into the 2-inch pipe on the side; then 3 inches lower on the 2-inch pipe there was a nonreturn valve. So as the pump forced the water down the well, as it hit the larger pipe the pressure difference caused a siphon effect and forced more water up to the top, and excess water was fed up to the house. The lower casting was corroded and unusable. Has anybody else seen anything like this? The pump company recommends a 6-hp 3-phase pump to do the same job. I have found out the original design principle is 400-year-old Arabic. Is there an exact principle with the 2-to-1...?

Your research is quite good so far. This type of design is now known as a "jet pump" or an "eductor." By injecting higher-pressure liquid through a nozzle, a larger volume of lower-pressure liquid can be entrained from the side. This principle is useful in sucking wastewater from sumps, mixing liquids, and converting high-pressure/low-volume flow into low-pressure/high volume flow, etc. Ratios of up to about 4:1 can be obtained in certain conditions; the 2:1 you cite is not a magic or exact number, but it is probably reasonable here.

Ultimately you are using 0.75 hp to pump water 90 m higher (or less, if the water in the well rises on its own above the bottom of the well). This should allow for about 7 gpm, which should be adequate if there is a suitably sized storage tank. If the system has been fine in the past, there is no need for a larger pump. Instead, try to find a replacement for the corroded casting, even from another manufacturer. The original pipe sizes seem about right. (The casting constitutes the "jet" or "eductor.")

I see no reason for a 6-hp 3-phase pump, unless you now want to pump a great deal more water.

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#5
In reply to #3

Re: problem with 30yr old well pump system

11/28/2009 4:42 AM

Thanks for that...at last I can read it....

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#8
In reply to #3

Re: problem with 30yr old well pump system

11/29/2009 3:56 PM

thank you the info is great help.and i apologise for my computer manners i tend to rush and make a lot of mistakes.more of a hands on guy.i have made a small generator that runs off of magnetic pendulum magnets of apposing poles at either side that push the pendulum its only small running at 12v for the last 2days trying to think of a way to make larger one any ideas.yes i did use spell check.

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#10
In reply to #8

Re: problem with 30yr old well pump system

11/29/2009 7:20 PM

what is this magnetic pendulm generator you mentioned.Give me a link or some pics,please.this sounds interesting.

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#4

Re: problem with 30yr old well pump system

11/27/2009 10:06 PM

Yazlof, please turn off your CAPS LOCK key. Thanks.

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#6

Re: problem with 30yr old well pump system

11/29/2009 12:27 AM
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#7

Re: problem with 30yr old well pump system

11/29/2009 6:34 AM

Its considered to be shouting when writing only in capitals on CR4, and therefore rude.

So please do not do it, it will also drive away many CR4 people from answering your questions..or better said, they will not even bother to read it.......

Have a great day.

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#11

Re: problem with 30yr old well pump system

11/29/2009 7:51 PM

Hi Yazlof,

see http://www.vascocatalana.com/Producto/JET+82+M-__-SERIE+JET-AUTOASPIRANTE+0%2c8+CV+MONOF..-+JET+82+M.html.

OR

http://www.calpedaiberica.com

Since they have the pumps you can be sure they will have the casting , or its equivalent, in their catalogue.

bueno suerte,

Chas

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#12

Re: problem with 30yr old well pump system

12/02/2009 3:26 AM

I know that I'm a couple of days late logging into this one, but in Europe he might also want to ask about "Venturi" pumps. (Just that some marketing people in Aus decided around 20 years ago that "jet" sounded sexier than "venturi". (my perception))

The principal of operation and features have been well described by others prior.

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#13
In reply to #12

Re: problem with 30yr old well pump system

12/04/2009 2:39 PM

the pump problem is under control thanks to every one.the pendulum generator is giving me problems.its been running for days,the problem is increasing output .12v is not really much use to me need to bring it up to about 3kva.have been toying with doing away with converting it in to rotary motion and using the pendulum to produce electricity by fixing a magnet on the bottom to glide over an open type coil.like cutting oped a generator open and rolling it out?

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ageniusforhire (1); Andy Germany (1); capblanc (1); gfmlcka (1); Just an Engineer (1); phoenix911 (1); standarded (1); tcmtech (1); Tornado (1); user-deleted-1105 (1); yazlof (3)

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