Water Contamination in Petrol / Gasoline

It wouldn't be wise to return to the petrol station, either on the Ducati or on foot, before the all-clear and the return of the residents to their homes...

Using the local paper as part of the claim, write to the petrol retailer with the full facts pointing out the costs of repairs to the machine, including any on-coats, such as loss of income as a result of its non-availability, any hire charges incurred as a result of its non-availability, etc. They might make an offer to settle Without Prejudice, in which case it is up to the recipient to decide whether to accept the offer or go through the court system instead.

Good Answer PWSlack! Exactly what I would do but I might also speak with a solicitor and ask for a consult (sometimes first one is free). I would inquire at the newspaper and / or the local council to discover the actual reason of the release so you can go after your claim fully informed.

I will list several reasons why petrol could cause an evacuation. But regardless of why there was an evacuation, your Bike cut out just after fueling; so that is most likely the cause. Because water collects at the bottom of tanks, you usually do not get far before the water gets into your engine. If you are in America, much of our petrol is mixed with ethanol which can absorb a quantity of water and still burn. It does not burn as well as dry because during combustion some of the heat is used to turn the water to steam, causing inconsistent combustion. If you are in Europe, you may not have ethanol so a very small quantity of water will mess up your petrol quick.

More info on Ethanol blend petrol. If sufficient water is introduced to ethanol / gasoline blends the water will separate out of the petrol taking the ethanol with it and it will no longer burn. Even after draining away the water / ethanol mix the petrol remaining will not be suitable for gasoline engines because removing the ethanol reduces the octane rating well below acceptable limits.

Water could have entered the fuel at many points before arriving at your petrol station (this does not mean they are not responsible though). Petrol should be tested for water daily when they 'stick' the tank for quantity. A crack on top of a tank could allow water in, but limited vapors out. A crack on the side or bottom could let petrol out and water in. The most common I have seen though is a faulty cap where they offload tankers to the underground tank.

As for the petrol fume release, it could have happened for several reasons. You did not give details about your location so I may not know the exact setup of underground petrol stations in your area, but here are some generalities.

Some areas require containment of petrol vapors so the underground tank might be closed off, the vapor pressure of petrol would slightly pressurize the underground tank, and a release commonly occurs at the vent stack due to excessive pressure. This is one major reason why an evacuation would be ordered.

Other common reasons for vapors concentrated enough for evacuation include a large underground leak that allowed petrol to bubble up to the surface or float on the water table to somewhere nearby that the water table is close to the surface. Underground releases usually tend to stay underground because the petrol floats on the water table and begins spreading out but does not release a vapor cloud. This would be evident because you would see large digging equipment attempting to remove the petrol, or several drilling rigs setting up reclaiming wells.

Another reason for vapor cloud causing evacuation is a major surface spill, either caused by a malfunction or unattended pump, or a tanker overfilling / spilling on the ground.

The final reason I list here for evacuation is when there is an underground pipeline that ruptures. Due to the pressure involved in this kind of spill the petrol will bubble up to the surface and cause a vapor cloud.

Sorry this turned into such a long post, I jumped around a bit and it is early so I hope it is not confusing.

Drew

PlbMak has pointed out in this forum that small quantities of water in petrol can be sorted out by tipping a small bottle of methylated spirit into the fuel tank. Water/meths/petrol is a miscible 3-component system.

Also, check this out.

True, but adding more alcohols to petrol in America can lead to problems with the ethanol / petrol blend. They are currently restricted to 10% ethanol because higher concentrations can have a detrimental effect on older engines fuel components.

Besides, if you have enough water to separate out of a ethanol blended petrol you need to drain the entire tank, clean it and fuel system then start over.

This is only for ethanol blended fuels. Normal 100% petrol fuels generally benefit with a little of the correct types of alcohols. Most of the fuel injector / system cleaners are blends of alcohols (and other ingredients). The Alcohol tends to improve the octane rating and absorb water, I don't know if it helps with carbon build up, but it would also dissolve resins and gunk from fuel components.

Drew

A small amount of alcohol will absorb the water and the problem goes away. I have heard of Australian petrol station owners putting water in their tanks (to rip off the customers). Presumably they do this at night. A fair amount of water will dissolve into petrol and this is what they work on. You proabably wouldn't notice the difference unless the water comes out of solution (maybe when it gets cold).

Water can be entrained within fuel. When cool, the water can precipitate out our just look cloudy. When warm it will appear just as clear as dry fuel.

Just pouring water into a tank will not entrain the water, it needs to be mixed. I have only seen entrained water in fuel when the fuel is fresh from the refinery and they did not remove it, or when the water traveled through the pipeline with the fuel; the sometimes turbulent flow causes the water to suspend in the fuel. Passing the fuel through a filter / coalescer removes the water by causing it to collect on the coalescer elements where it can be drained from the sump.

Drew

For an immediate improvement for the gasoline/water mixture in your fuel tank add Methyl Alcohol (also known as Methanol, Wood Alcohol or Dry-gas to the tank) [the Dry-gas is almost 100% Wood Alcohol]. This this is more effective in dissolving the water into the gasoline than Ethyl Alcohol, the alcohol that is put into gasoline as it is supplied from the manufacturer.

Most underground fuel storage tanks leak at the bottom of the tank due to water in the fuel (water is denser than gasoline so it settles at the bottom along with many water soluble impurities). As the water table rises (due to rain, etc.) the surronding water will rise into the tank through the bottom hole and add more water to the tank. As the water table lowers the water on the bottom leaks out the bottom hole until there is no more water in the tank. Next the gasoline that was above the tank water begins to leak out of the tank onto the top of the water in the water table below. Most subsurface water travels, although usually very slow, and it carries the gasoline on top of it along with it. This is why a single small leak in an undergroung tank can cause a widespread plume of gasoline to the surrounding areas. Usually, but not always, there is more contamination in one direction from the tank leak than in other directions.

That's why it happens. What you should do to stop it is to obtain as much publicity about the problem as possible and consult with your enviromental regulatory agency. They can guide you in the best ways to get some action if they themselves are not the appropritate agency. The more information the public has, the more that will get done. If you have inccurred serious damage to your cycle, consult with the appropriate legal advisor in order to recover damages.

Good Luck.

All reputable petrol stations test their underground tanks for water regularly. All major oil companies are aware of the problems of water in petrol from underground tanks (and other sources) and their marketing divisions are mostly pretty good at settling any claims that they believe are valid.

Your problem is that you did not contact either the marketing division of the oil company or the petrol station owner immediately that you suffered this problem.

First contact the petrol station owner with your claim, if this gets you nowhere then contact the oil company whose petrol you used. If no joy then see if it is worth your while to go the legal route. The fact that they have petrol floating on the groundwater outside their tank makes them legally vulnerable I would guess.

A cheap but vey effective way of removing water from petrol and preventing it from ending up in your tank is to pour the petrol through a chamois leather liner in a large funnel. The leather will trap the water and some other impurities. We have used this method in aviation for as long as I can remember. Out in the bush here we often have to buy fuel from roadside sharks. They sell it out of 5gal cans and often add a huge amount of water. I normally agree to deduct twice the volume of water that comes out of the chamois from the price.

If the petrol leak has been large enough to penetrate to local houses then the Petroleum officer will,(should) have carried out a full investigation. Tanks in the UK used to be tested at 20 years then annually by capping off the lines and pressurising each tank with Nitrogen for 24 hours. This leak could have occurred in the tank fill lines or in the suction lines to the pumps or in one of the tanks - my guess would be the lines after the recent Winter freeze-up which could have cracked a joint. Tank leaks usually occur around the man lid where the 3 pipes enter, (fill, suction and vent) and, if the manhole chamber is full of water, this will slowly leak into the tank especially when fuel is being sucked out by the pumps. If the site uses submersed pumps then the lines will be under pressure!

Modern sites now have double wall tanks a second containment around each pipe and membranes under the pumps - sometimes they have to install ground water and hydrocarbon detectors which will shut down the pumps if tripped.

You may be assured that yours will not be the only case of water contamination and I would join the queue of claimants as quickly as possible. Keep your fuel receipt safe as this is the vital evidence - date, fuel grade and volume purchased. From my experience, leak detection, damage limitation and repairs to the site will take several days/weeks but you should be able to find out from the site if they had to remove water from the tank where your grade of fuel came from. All petrol station must have heavy insurance protection so secrecy probably isn't an issue after the story has hit the media.

In the US the station would be shut-down. Water is easily detected by the monitoring systems that are mandated for the tank and pumping system. If they haven't shut down yet inform your local environmental agency and place a complaint. If they have shut them down place your complaint and ask the agency if they have done any testing on the fuel. If not you may need to hire a third party inspector to do the testing. That way you can prove your case.

Good Luck

been to the petrol station in question now that i have my bike back, and the manager told me he is not allowed to say anything. he was only allowed to gove me the business card of the loss adjuster. they are now dealing with it and told me they will be intouch within a week

Good Answer for getting back to us, it is always good to hear the results to inquiries here.

And Good Luck with the loss adjuster. Your receipt should have a date and time stamp on it that shows you got fuel when there was a problem, I would only release the original to them with a signed receipt stating that you turned it over to them, and be sure to keep a good copy for yourself (if you are forced to hand over original).

Drew

the bike shop as give me 2 original copies of the reciept incase shell lose 1. the loss adjuster tried a poor effort of fobbing me off by saying that i was the earliest person date wise having problems. i think he was implying that my bike braking down could not be anything to do with thier petrol station having a major leak because the leak was not actually discovered till 4 days after i had filled up and almost instantly broke down. because the leak was only discovered on tuesday, then it could not possibly of been leaking prior to the day it was discovered.

so i quickly shut him up by explaining that i have been in the motor trade for 20 years. and telling him most modern vehicles can run with a bit of crappy fuel, ecu controlled engines auto adjusting to compensate. where as i am on a 95 ducati monster 750 running on carbs which are not ecu controlled so when a bit of crappy fuel gets used they screw up and dont do what they are sposed to do.

in leymans terms my carbed bike is a lot more sensitive to crappy fuel than a ecu controlled car.

Very true, with the smaller engine size more precision bikes have they are much more susceptible to bad fuel than a car with a 30 liter tank. It is possible you are the first because your bike noticed the problem before it got worse.

The receipt I was talking about was the original for the gas, don't give that up easy either. Get hand receipt and signed copy if you have to turn it over.

It sounds like they know they have a problem but want to only pay out if they absolutely have to. As long as you have your paperwork in order you should have no problems.

Drew

My experience of petrol stations shows that the fuel leak is always noticed some time after the ingress of water depending on levels of fuel in the tanks, volumes used and weather conditions. I've seen sites where the tanks have 'heaved' due to exceptional ground water and all the pipes sheared. There was a leak in Bristol some years ago where they had to close a shopping centre for a couple of weeks with a fire engine on site 24/7 - the damages came to over £3 million.

If you don't get any joy with the loss assessor you could place an advert in the local paper, (or threaten to do so) to gather other customers who have had water in their fuel. The damage bill will soar if more people put in claims and the assessor will probably take your claim much more seriously to keep you quiet!

For example we installed a petrol station for a big Oil Company and got 4*(leaded)and Unleaded pipes crossed over under ONE pump by mistake. The Oil Company decided to protect its image by announcing it to the world on national TV and offered to carry out a check on the engine of any customer who had filled up at the site. They had people arriving from two hundred miles away saying their engines/catylitic converters had been damaged and our damages exceeded £2 million - a very costly mistake!

Incidentally this mistake was picked up by the Tank gauge which flagged up a 'leak' because the tank volumes weren't correct. Modern gauges are self calibrating and will flag a leak if the tank volume doesn't correspond with fuel drawn by a pump it supplies within a few mililitres. This includes gains due to water ingress and leaks - the site manager should be aware of this, it's part of his license conditions.

Good luck with your claim.

Just a brief note. If you use Methanol with a vehicle that has a catalytic converter it could cause it to plug up. In that case one should consider Isopropyl alcohol which is safer for the converter.

Here in the U.S. we don't have much choice. It is getting very difficult to find non blended gasoline

Drew