Is "Real Life" Engineering Anything Like What I'm Learning in Class?

That sounds like a daunting class load, and you seem to be doing quite well in staying abreast of it. Yeah, the midnight oil can be tough....

Your questions are very perceptive and well composed, and the theoretical background you gain will likely be helpful in the long run.

That said, a lot of real-world engineering consists of knowing various basic technologies and principles, and examining manufacturers' data to see if their products do what you want to do. In class, you might use the pump or fan affinity laws to make theoretical calculations; in real life, you will look up catalogued pump curves, maybe adjusting them a little (impeller trim or adjustable speed) to match the desired conditions. (That's just an example.)

Most vendors do not want their products to fail, so they do have an incentive to perform their own calculations properly. This is not bullet-proof (after all, there are fly-by-nighters), but engineers sometimes tend too much to second-guess vendors, and then overspecify.

No doubt that was too brief to cover the whole picture, but I hope you can find some perspective there. Excellent questions.

Steve S. is bang-on. I've worked on platforms, in paper mills, in mines (5,000 feet underground!), and now I've done my MBA and become Mr. Energy Efficiency Expert over the past six years.

I honestly believe that we're entering a Golden Age of Engineering. For all that our predecessors accomplsihed and for all the trails they blazed, they've opened up a world of "I can't believe that anyone could even THINK of that!".

Fear not, you're on a right track, my friend. Once you'll be an engineer, if you think of engineering as more than just a job, the world will be your oyster. And your world will be so expansive that you'll be amazed at it all and find it hard to grasp. Give it time, though, stay alert, feel that what you do is a vocation, and after 20 years of experience you'll REALLY understand how much wider your mental and social horizons will be than those of most others.

Like Steve said ... we all pay our dues in engineering school. But those dues gain you entry into an exalted club. (Mind you, there ARE ding-dongs in it, but still ...).

Cheers! DZ

P.S. And how I found my way to engineering and the type of engineering I love ... dumb luck. I've always been good in math and science but I felt early that a science career wasn't for me. I like dchemistry, but I didn't feel like being a chemist. Same for other sciences, etc. So, something scientific but not science ... engineering!

And why electrical engineering in my case? The three main branches when I studied in the early 80s were electrical, mechanical, and civil. I couldn't draw a straight line with pencil and ruler, and back then technicaldrawing was done by hand (urk!). That pretty much eliminated civil and mechanical, neither of which I felt I cared for, really ... So I wound in electrical engineering by double default, found that is was congenial to me (the subject matters fit with how my mind works), and I've been at it ever since.

Mind you, after I'd graduated, I didn't even know that the field I've worked most in (instrumentation and control, automation) even existed. It took a while for me to stumble into it, but I've never looked back.

Courage!

Oh .. and getting paid and having weekends off (most of the time) is pretty cool, too. :P

DZ

Weekends off? You mean, there are engineers who get weekends off? Is this a regular occurrence, or a special reward for some great accomplishment? Just exactly what do you do with such an abundance of free time???

My experience with having gone back to school several years ago for an EE degree was a real eye opener after having had some years working in the real world. So the basics answer to your question is NO ITS NOT! Class time is apparently taught in opposite land for what ever reason.

The real world is far easier and far more practical. I cant even Begin to understand what pin heads developed the EE class program that I took. If you are good at the class work then real life might be a considerable challenge being reality doesn't give a crap about what theory says most of the time!

In reality you get to have every resource you can find or afford at your beckoned call. In class your punished for having any practical reference material or helpful methods of solving problems. In reality you find and use the most practical approach to solve problems like calling in someone who does understand something you dont or just using common sense most of the time.

tcmtech: Please note that the questioner is attending Rose-Hulman! Their classwork is more practical and applicable than most. In our company's experience, RHIT grads are capable of hitting the ground running, unlike most other new grads.

A business trip to South Korea to act as the technical interface on a water treatment plant proved rewarding for everyone involved...

Analogy - military boot camp prepares you for combat (does Rose still have mandatory ROTC for two years?) - anyhow, real military life has lots of down time - but when you do have real life combat, you have been drilled and it comes back quick. Similarly, high end engineering,such as Rose offers, prepares you for real world engineering. No, it's not as intense day in and day out. But in real life, you do need to solve problems others aren't equipped to. Long ago, poor engineering and/or follow through led to collapse of suspended walkway in Kansas City building, killing many. Engineers are like trained military combatants. What you learn thru intense training will be used, but real life has more human interface with others, overseeing projects, etc.

I remember my years at Rose very well (used to be Rose Poly before the Hulman was added) and after a long career, will testify it well prepared me for those tough times that skills and discipline were needed to do it right - and I could have confidence I was able to do it!

In the EE world, real life is much less math intensive than class - in a sense, you learn the math to understand the engineering, then you don't need it so much. Real life also requires much more creative thought, and the opportunity to use your own mind to come up with your own solutions, instead of the one that's in the back of the book.

The biggest difference I noticed is that in school you're competing against perfection - a 100% score - and you always come up short. In real life, if you just do what is asked of you, and get it right most of the time, you will be hailed as the greatest employee on earth.

The difference is that in college you may be measuring against 100% score, but nobody actually expects to achieve that.

In the real world you are expected to get it right otherwise people die.

Die? Rarely. I'm pretty sure I've never killed anyone with one of my designs - except for the designs that were actually meant to kill.

But, yes - you are expected to get it right - the question is how many times do you have to try before you do.

I work in broadcast - not an especially hazardous industry, however I have heard of fatalities in my field from:

• electrocution due to faulty equipment where a single point failure could give rise to a lethal system
• electrocution and burns due to equipment becoming live during maintenance due to poor access control interlocks,
• studio fire aggravated by use of flammable acoustic materials and lack of interlocks to the air-con system and
• tower collapse.

However the scope for fatalities is much greater in other fields such as petrochemicals, nuclear, munitions, aviation and automotive industries. The quality of the engineering is crucial to safety.

Bhankii, thankfully none of my designs have ever killed anyone as well (and I take particular pride in that). But in my line of work it happens with monotonous regularity because it IS a dangerous business. High temps and pressures and poisonous gasses and tall structures and a lot of exposed moving parts combined with a well paid workforce that was lucky to finish high school and likes to drink and party on their time off leads to situations where we have to engineer for the lowest common denominator. The problem with fool-proofing things are that fools are so damned ingenious.

I've found that the third iteration is the charm before being qualified for production. Very rarely is it perfect on the first try.

At M.E levels normally self study, assignments, seminars are usually given. Home works for M.E level? If your professors discuss in the class rooms on basics and concepts of technology aspects, better to make the assignment or home work at the college itself. It can be like a mini test. Your self corrected answers can be based on the professor's views or guidelines.

The college hours are real working hours for learning. Home work beyond college hours, that too at M.E level ? ooof.

If it is of a specific practice oriented study it is of some value. Too much of dry theory benefits no one.

Any way, having entered the game, better finish with these pains. If you have consciously under taken these home works with real involvement, a big gift is on your career journey. That is - You would have mastered the art of problem solving, which should be of real value in your technical life. nothing goes as waste.

So keep going.

And let's not forget the crucial ability to neutralize people (icluding a few engineers) who CAUSE problems, hahahaha.

DZ

DreadZontar,

One way you are right. Engineers with in depth theories can tackle[ confuse] the on way trouble makers. You got to be smart enough to tackle the smarter game players. Call it as fooling out or driving out.But you should survive to be genuine.

You'll probably only use a tiny bit of what you learn, but no one knows which bit that'll be.

So, right now you're learning a huge amount of background material that's interesting in its own right, may be useful later on and most of all, is great brain training.

At the risk of seeming vain, I often help tradesmen out with PLC/VSD/sensor/pneumatics/logic problems. Although they've done the training courses and have years of experience my deeper knowledge of the fundamentals and an ability to quickly understand new things often saves the day.

You get a GA from me.

With regard to your point 4. Are you saying that being in a 9-5 job (as it sounds as if you are) and being away from your family for three days (probably with no overtime payment, as your probably a staff employee being an engineer) is a good advertisment for becoming an engineer, you must be totally brain washed (the man at the top must be laughing his arse off, with people like you working for him), or it must give you a great feeling of being the most important person on the block (egomaniac springs to mind). I hope your family appreciates your sacrifies as your employer probably doesn't, he just wants you to get your job done. We are just a number.

PS To the original poster, get a job in some sort of financial position, your studies/education will be a whole lot easier, your financial reward will be a whole lot better and your home life will be a whole lot happier (where 9-5 means 9-5).

Keep up the battle at academia, it will never hurt you to have it but will hurt you not to have it!

My father was a MIT Electrical Eng Magna Cum Laude graduate who used to chat in latin with others so inclined. Could design just about anything electronic in a practical and usable way. Next time you fly in an airliner, think of him- he designed the Instrument Landing System that has been in use for the last 65 years. Had all that but his true love was building and sailing wooden sailboats. If something was commercially available for his boat he wouldn't buy it because he would rather use a lathe or milling machine to make it himself.

Me, I percerviered and got a degree in chemistry. From the time that I got my degree the closest I got to chemistry was working part-time as a bartender for cash during school. Spent my career doing chemical, mechanical, electrical, envoronmental and safety engineering along with operations and engineering management. Don't regret any of it but the two things I enjoy the most: 1) sailing the wooden sailboat that dad and I made and 2) fighting fires as a volunteer fire chief. Also never spent much time with spelling!

Life is what you make it. School isn't what work will be and work won't be what school was. Learn to enjoy all the phases of your life no matter how much you may or may not like/love them. Also after over 40 years in a career which had several changes in it, school time never ended since you begin to be more self taught as your career progresses.

It's been some years, but I really enjoyed AC Clarke's "Glide Path" story on the development of the ILS... if I'm not getting my aero technologies mixed up?

Chris

Chris, if I recall correctly many of those brilliant men went on to work in a dusty hole in the wall in the middle of the New Mexico Desert, and ended up changing the world yet again just a few years later.

But no, that is a different system you are thinking of. It served the same purpose but worked differently.

My personal experience is that I grew up a math/science geek in a liberal arts home. Fortunately, my parents are about the two wisest people I know and encouraged me to explore my interests and natural talents.

Coming from a non-technical/business environment, I had very little idea what to expect in the business world let alone the world of engineering. One of the best decisions I made in college was to get involved in the coop program. I'm not sure if your school has something similar. For those who don't know, it's a form of apprenticeship. At the university I attended the program would assist the student in finding engineering oriented employment (usually locally). The student was required to work and go school alternating semesters. Employers know they are getting an inexperienced body and good employers integrate (and teach) them. It's a great way to learn what's going on out in the world outside of academia. Experiences aren't always good though. Some employers just need a warm body and don't want to put the time into helping the person become productive. Others just want cheap labor. The work can sometimes be boring. I spent a few months making copies of documents to put in design folders. But if I wasn't doing it the company would have had to pay an engineer to do it. So it's still a view into what you may be doing as an engineer.

Some great answers already but- let my 40 years of doing this stuff yield some more insight.

First- you must realize that an engineering degree, especially from a first class school, is proof to your potential employers that you are capable of maintaining consistent effort for an extended period of time. It is also proof that you are "technically domesticated", meaning that you are capable of being trained in whatever their system needs you to know. That gets you in the door.

Once you are inside, it is up to you to decide how much you want to use your training or how much you want to drop into a groove and slide by. If you truly understand that engineering is "applied physics" and like that idea- you will be able to truly make a difference not only at your company but in the industry where you are employed.

A few years ago- in the movie "Paper Chase" (a story about law students), the key professor had a saying- You come in hear with a head full of mush, and you will leave thinking like lawyers! It can be the same thing with engineering- you will leave thinking like an engineer. If you are up to it- you will constantly challenge the status quo with questions like- What If ....? Why Not Try ....? What Will Happen If ....?

Always try to find some old fart who still ENJOYS what he is doing. Ask questions and LISTEN to the answers.

Some time ago, I was putting together a resume and decided to include some of my significant accomplishments over the years to show my perspective employer that I still "had it". I found that I had at least one major and significant "win" during every year, going back 25 years. If I did that today, I would find that now I have at least three or four "wins" every recent year because I have learned a lot more and I still ask the same questions.

Last year, I invented a new CoGen system that operates at 99% annual efficiency (compared to the 65-70% that virtually ALL of the previous systems operate). Last summer, we had entering air at 105F with an exhaust of 84F, all the fuel and 21F of 4200 SCFM of air went into the process. Additionally, this system cuts CO2 by 80% and smog-producing NOx by 97% and it pays for itself in two years. This year, I am developing a new style steam engine to use the waste heat to make more electricity and still be able to capture over 90% of the "waste" thermal energy. I am also finding ways to use the same style engine with thermal from a solar panel and refrigerant for pressure and heat reclaim. It's still FUN.

Keep plugging away- you will actually look back at this time with fond memories. But- if you keep you head on straight, and look for ways to use everything that you learn to get better, you will have a good life. Remember- Doctors, Lawyers, Accountants and Engineers PRACTICE- you always want to get better and you will NEVER be perfect, and that is OK.

STAY THE COURSE ! You are doing great. A questioning attitude, and trying to figure out if it is all worth while. Yes it is. You will find in the job place that every day will bring new challenges. But they will be things that you can feel and see. What you should do is get a job in the summer as a pipefitter, or a valve tech, something mechanical that will mix in with your degree. Its good to see how your design goes together. You get a whole different look at what the implementation is like, from the paper to the actual system running, producing, and making money. Which is the reason for it all, to make money. But the answer to your other question is no, school is nothing like work. Work will be like a vacation compared to school. But without that degree, you are dead in the water. Stay the course, school will get easier next year, you should start looking at more hands on projects your junior year. Good Luck !

I'll weigh in on this since I have a unique outlook most do not. You asked if real life engineering was anything like school. The simple answer is yes and no (lol). In school the emphasis is on learning the technical information and developing your analytical skills. In real life the emphasis is on your analytical skills and hopefully that developes your technical know-how. I don't want to say what industry i work in, or who i work for, but i'm not quite 31, and I have been ridiculously successful. Owe it all to my ability to solve problems quickly and efficiently. THATS what you need to take away from school.

Yes- master the language! A most crucial aspect of any career field- communicating.

Mr. Sophomore at Rose-Hulman-

As you read through all these responses, take a look at the ages (when available) and the locations around the world of your responders. Then check out the responses to any number of topics that are being discussed within CR4.

That should tell you how much those of us who have "gone before" generally enjoy what we do, our collective contributions to the industry, and our desire to help others solve whatever problems they are facing- based on our collective experience.

If that does not sound like what you want to be doing 1o, 20 or 40+ years from now- change your major before you waste more of your life and get in the way of someone who does. If it sounds "exciting", relax (for a couple of minutes) then get back to work preparing yourself for the ride of your life.

Hi,

I'm a mechanical engineer and there's a lot less number crunching than you think.

I'm retired and in my whole career I solved only 2 differential equations. In the first few years you might have to do some math but not the heavy stuff we learn at the University. If you decide to go on and do a master's degree then you'll end up doing a lot of number crunching. But let me tell you that the first 2 years at the University are the most challenging. After these you'l have more time on your hands. The best advice I can tell you for these 2 rough years is to do your homework in a team, it will help you and you'll get through.

Best regards,

Bob

College is only the first building block in life. You never know everything, or accomplish all you want to do. College teaches you to look at challenges and life from a different Perspective.

Courage son, never give up your pursuit for happiness.

You have to start with theory and common sense. Finding a job in todays industry doing what you love will take more effort then college, trust me. But finding a job and doing what you love will be the greatest achievement you and your future family will benefit from.

Yes you will not use all of what you learn. But I have worked in a technical field for 32 years and I learn something new daily. I still find my self referring back to the technical college books for that long lost equation I learned 25 years ago. Loving what you do is the greatest reward in life and know one can take away your personal achievements.

Education is worth every minute and every penny.

Best Wishes and Regards,

Tim

Or what is your "average" day?

The average day is a blast. No matter what you end up doing, your engineering degree will benefit you. It gives you a base from which to work, but you can go in any direction thereafter. And no, it is not endless calculations, by any means.

Have fun and good luck.

"The average day is a blast."

sure if you are the Van Helsing of HHO hunters...

Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology

That reminds me of a really smart guy that graduated the Sam Houston Institute of Technology at the HEAD of the class. The short form of his title was S. H. _. _. head.

In school, you do two things, learn things _{basic knowledge of things} and learn how to learn things.

When you are hired on, even as a recent graduate, your employer expects you to know some things, be able to research or absorb knowledge of other things and be a creative problem solver as needed. All this is done with an eye towards cost containment and time to market. That's where the fun is. Especially if they have enough confidence in you to turn you loose. _{and you thought studying on a subject late into the night was only for school. I've had many sleepless nights thinking through a problem to be solved and then having success the next day. My job was so much fun that I chose to work on circuit board check prints while attending a Daytona 24 hour race just so I could move the project forward a little faster. Time to market is paramount.}

What I have found is that the answer is "yes and no" as many have indicated. You won't be solving differential equations every day, but you'll have the ability to do so, if ever needed, as well as where to reference information to solve problems.

I think the greatest benefit, if you're lucky enough to get the right professors, is learning to think like an engineer and acquiring the discipline to solve problems. Many, far too many people, even in this profession fail to get that. Organized, systematic solving of a problem goes a long way to actually resolving problems. Making lists of what you know, don't know, appropriate equations, and systematic, step by step resolution is vital to an engineer.

I've been lucky to have professors like this. One is a world authority in heat transfer, and I've adopted his methodology to solving problems in engineering, and in life in general. I hope you have been as lucky, because besides his skill, he takes a genuine interest in the improvement of his students.

Good luck, and welcome to engineering.

I'd give my right nut to be able to do what you're doing right now

To go back to school and learn it all again has been my dream for the last ten years

There's so many things to learn, and so little time to learn it all once you start working. So take the time to learn all you can now, and cherish it. You won't have time after marriage, kids, payin the bills etc.