Rude? No, sir, it's concise.

I know my limits and I have very little expertise is capping well heads 5,000 feet below sea level.

In all likelihood, there is probably no one else here that is an expert (they are probably busy in the Gulf at work).

My point is that speculation on how to cap this well is probably frivolous, particularly if it isn't a field in which you are knowledgeable. However, there is nothing wrong with asking questions with the idea of understanding the subject.

I just think that when faced with a problem beyond the scope of my domain knowledge that it is prudent to at least consult an expert or in this case, employ one.

Frankly, I wouldn't ask an electrician advice on how to diagnose heart disease.

As the original poster asked "what would I do", employing an expert is exactly what I would do. My guess is that I am right.

I think it more closely parallels "cauterizing a wound"

Perhaps if the experts knew what to do, they would have done it already?

subsequently, looking outside of the conventional for creative answers, perhaps by way of cross-breeding of disciplines, is appropriate.

Chris

Thinking completely out of the box without any knowledge on plugging the leak at the pipe end at 5000 FT below sea surface my suggestion is to send a steel plug (powerfully electromagnetized) (to be charged only around the near viscinity of the leak). Understand they attempt with the submarine robot to reach this open end but to make the plug (magnetized) attach to the open end I think magnetism can help attach to the steel.

Anonymous Hero,

I read the introduction to this thread and I was thinking exactly what you wrote. GA from me.

Regards

Mr. W.A Snow

Anonymous hero

Exactly

GA to you.

Sleepy

We are still waiting.

This is exactly my thought, with one exception. That the vessel be fitted with a nipple and a valve. Now, when it is flipped it can then be connected to a line and pumped to the surface

it's very much like Apollo 13, "Houston.....we have a problem" . But no team was in place for this one. Why not? With the temps. and pressure and visibility, the way they are, quite a task. They should have killed the well right away. And there are others on marginal maintenance. Sea water and electronics will never get allong.

Why do you think they waited so long?

I envision a huge jaws of life type clamp, not a cutter.

Petrobras, The Brasilian Oil firm, that I number among my clients, and some other SA Oil Companies are the pros when it comes to deep sea drilling.

Wonder why they have not been called in, especially Petrobras and PDVSA, who both have refinery investments and other interests i the USA.

The cutter is also my 2nd option. The option " squeeze" meant "strangle to death".

Thanks.

It is just a pity that it doesn't come as a standard accessory (even if it costs a million) on a multi billion platform operation.

Just jaws can be dangerous to "crack the pipe" It should never exceed the maximum elasticity.., a smooth transition from round to flat should be obtained.

I would think that is almost guaranteed to happen at the two opposing edges where the pipe would be squeezed flat and form a 180° fold in the metal.

There really doesn't appear to be any current news and information on the status and methods being tried to stop the flow of oil.

Thanks, most likely it can happen.

But bad timing to find out now.

All these problems should be taken of by the design and choice of the pipeline. It is not the first rig that shows this problem. Since the pressure upwards is a quasi constant parameter the flow can only be diminished to work on the diameter.

But who are we?

The oil experts have probably the knowledge. Stopping the leak will need a team of different disciplines working together, and specific tooling that can handle the depth situation. Since the pipe still has some length they can start as high as possible to work easier.

Accidents studies have different phases for the researchers to go through. And since this kind of accidents (luckily) don't happen every day, emotional stress has to be overcome too. (same as in ER)

The saying is " even the devil gets used to the fire" --- or something like it.

Red Adare, a fire fire extrodinare, what would he wanted to do? I think he would have killed the well or burned it at its source, either way that is the way of firefighters, Heroes all, tackle ANY JOB immediately

Anonymous Hero

You Are right, although your first reply was a bit abrupt. In hind site perfectly acceptable though. How could one find or think of a solution if one has no idea about the hard ware and other parameters in place.

You are right, these guys do nothing else but and have all the necessary data and skills. They are for sure very passionate about the whole matter and should not be blamed, or all thrown into the basket of environmental terrorists. These are to be found a few stories up.

Now my intuitive suggestions:

1. If they find the fire/burning solution a good why don't they start the real thing and start burning it at the source?

2. Why not get one of those flash submarines and let them torpedo the thing to smithereens. Blast the crap out of it. Ah, I see, that could trigger an earthquake

3. Put a huge beaker over it and pump the stuff onto ships. I know that the piping must be in a very messy state but , again, another well guided torpedo can sort that out. One just needs a clean starting point, I assume.

The overall feeling, (dejavu) and unimaginable consequences remind me of Chernobyl. I had only two days until my flight to Australia after it happened and we were happy to get out of there. From the the middle of Europe that is, 1600 clicks away. This is even more catastrophic because it seems that nobody is telling the truth about it. Estimates at best, (You can't handle the truth, thanks Jack)

A week after the meltdown it was known what the consequences are going to be and what to do about it. In this case even the worse case scenario might be overshadowed by reality. I dread to think how these poor people being effected are going to get through this. No seafood in New Orleans? Wow,this is bad!! Very very bad. I could cry for my fellow humans but the feeling of anger towards the infallible technology (experts?) stops me doing so.

America, you are being tested to the limit, just hang in there! My thoughts go out to you all.

Lord have mercy, Ky.

here is an article where the BBC has accidentally provided some good background on the situation. It discusses both burning and cones, et al.

Dear Guest

How ever hard I try to understand the hard ware involve, I always come to the same conclusion.

Blast the thing to smithereens.

I mean Just take it all out. Create a shock wave and aim it down. "Tabula rasa", clean table, slate!!

There are dangers involved, but can it get any worse? Maybe the shock wave would travel to the next well and take that one out, for example. You see I don't even know were this next well is. I have no idea how shock waves travel in oil either. I am not an explosives expert.

I can't remember his name now but it was something with Red, just can't think of it at the moment, (Adair) the guy that blew out oil fires (yes I know, that was above ground). He and his son were hired and he just blew them out. Maybe not just but with a lot of experience. Why not put that to the experts in the field. If they say they could do, do it. What, not enough explosives? You have to be joking.

So, what are the dangers of blowing it all to whatsthename.

It would cave in, wouldn't it?

It would not create a tsunami would it?

It would not trigger an earthquake, would it?

It would kill and maim less wild life.

It would be as fast as one could say "lets clean up and get on with it", wouldn't it.

It would save the cradle of fisheries along thousands of miles of cost line.

If they have bunker busters, they should have something in their arsenal that could do the job. Just keep them coming, one after the other. Again, no, I am not an explosives expert, but have guided the things on computer games.

I mean really, has there ever been an earth quake which resulted in the earth opening up and spilling all the oil there is? Why does that not happen? You see I am not a geological expert either.

Were is that bloody panic button, Ky.

I'm myself not seeing how bombs would help in the underwater situation.

I am wondering why the valve can't be electrically melted shut, or the well head low tech piled upon with steel blocks and concrete blocks.

I am also very curious about what caused the explosion on this rig, either officially, or unofficially.

My guidance problem for shaped steel plugs is likely much less than for a containment vessel at those depths with a number of currents likely as temperatures change from depth to depth in a mile of sea.

I have strong doubts that the funnel steel concept will make it. How will it be guided? Is it round? What are the currents. What anchoring is possible?

I'd about recommend just dropping any heavy stuff I could find over the hole as fast as possible. Either that or power the pipe wellhead so melted shut the oil stopped floating.

We have seen on CR4 information about sub wire guidance systems with the width of a human hair.

What's the problem here guys? Doesn't anybody on Globalspec know how to right now stop the Oil leak? Are they keeping it a secret.

John Wayne was an actor. Ronald Reagan was an actor. Audie Murphy was a Medal of Honor winner with no rank above Lieutenant. He became an actor.

All righty then! There is a hole in the ocean floor man made spewing oil. Plug it. Just plug it and cover it up. That's the plan.

stop thinking...

you are not an expert

Ah, not an expert in drilling, but I do have an informed opinion on metal.

While I don't know the specific material in play here, all metals have a minimum bend radius.

I also know that there is a neutral line that runs trough the bend that is somewhere between the inner radius and outer radius of the bend. The position of that line is called the K-Factor.

Inside that line material gets compressed, while outside that line it stretches (elongation).

When you clamp a pipe shut the elongated sides of the pipe will form a bend of 180° and the inside radius of the bend will approach zero.

Not too many metallic materials can achieve this type of bend radius without fracturing or fatiguing of the metal. Generally, those that do well with small bends are very soft and ductile, which probably will not make a good attribute for a pipe under pressure a mile long.

You are right up to a point:

- it cannot be a"fatigue" aspect since such a tube crushing is done ONLY once

- the most important factor is the ratio between the strain at Rm and the strain Re

If the ratio is big and steels for such tubing are in this category then the crushing can be total without problems.

Got off Fox hearing Huckabee give every reason BP ought to be kicked out of control of the Deepwater Horizon, who then turned around and said BP ought not be bankrupted.

I disagree. BP is incompetent. Proof is that oil is still spewing.

Replication of conditions on the seafloor prior to the ongoing disaster is called for.

Short out melting of steel may be an option.

Corporations are not to be allowed to destroy ecosystems. The containment funneling process is a failure. Melting the metal and covering the area with bricks, balls, gravel, bowling balls, concrete balls, steel from ghost ships is a massive undertaking.

It would get in the way of surgical approaches.

However it would work.

If not, say how? I am here influenced by the info link you provided about further spew lower down further causing me to suggest blanketing and replication of conditions prior to the spew.

From past experience with deep hole casing I would imagine this casing is 135ksi.

I have consulted for BP and their spec is darn good, wish I could up load it to the forum.

I did a crush test on 24" x 1.00" (Probably greater than the casing, as this was for CNG Cylinders) a few years back, USS Tubular has the means to do this with their land based tools

As with BOP's at that depth, the problem is with the hydraulics i think. Pressure ratings for hydraulic equipment has to be off the charts, because of the offset created by the ambient pressure. BOP's and associate accumulators have their pressure ratings go up proportional to the depth at which they are operating. (as I understand it.) So if you are going to operate hydraulic shears capable of pinching off the casing at that depth... well I'm just not sure that such equipment would be managable.

So the square covers that are being built are a 'mechanical' solution, that I think should become standard, and the bop's/accumulators should operate underneath them. That way, to seal the system, you have a purely mechanical way of isolating the wellhead from the sea.

chris

Good post Chris;

"because of the offset created by the ambient pressure."

Imagine a hydraulic cylinder with 100 psi working against a 10 inch piston. The force on the piston rod is 1000 lbs. Now submerse this enclosed system to a depth where the ambient pressure is 500 psi.Wouldn't the force on the rod still be 1000lbs as long as the system remained enclosed?

I don't think the problem is the offset. Perhaps it is keeping the system sealed.

Now imagine taking your shears or Guillotine Blade and connecting them to an operating rod and piston,enclosing them,taking them to depth, and then slowly, or not so slowly open the fluid side of the piston to the ambient pressure and let the water act as your working fluid. You could call it The One Cut Wonder. I don't think the pipe can be squeezed. Its too brittle. It will break. The way it sounds this stuff probably can't be cut in the conventional sense. I believe there are specially designed cutting explosives that could be used for cutting the riser but I thought the One Cut Wonder was an interesting concept anyway.

How about a Rocket Powered Quilled Pig? You make or modify a pipe pig that is close to the inside diameter of the pipe, surround it with sharp titanium barbed quills that will lay flat when you light its behind filled full of slow burn explosives, and give it a long shaped nose that will center it up as it enters the pipe. The long tapered nose would let you work against the high pressure oil stream long enough to get it lined up with the end of the nose just inside the pipe when you launch this thing into the pipe. The acceleration causes the quills to lay flat against the pig until it stops and starts to get pushed back out the pipe. As the pig starts to get pushed back by the high pressure oil the barbed quills dig into the inside of the pipe and hold it there plugging the pipe.

You might even give it a bit of a flexible body so it could run up a not so round hole. Then you could call it a Rocket Powered Quilled Puffer Pig. Modify it with guidance fins and you could Tow Fly to the point the guiding nose enters the opening and then light it. The PGM fins fall off when the explosives light. In this case it could be a Rocket Powered Aquatic Flying Quilled Puffer Pig.

I'll bet you could make one in a couple of days if you had the right machine shop and people.

Better yet; if we were real lucky the well head pressure would be less than the ambient pressure and you could just blow the damn thing and let the water pressure shut it down as it contaminated the oil basin with sea water. Kinda like a reverse spill. I wonder what the gradient is at the well head? I wonder what it was when the pipe was at the surface!!!

Gavilan

you could just blow the damn thing and let the water pressure shut it down as it contaminated the oil basin with sea water. Kinda like a reverse spill.

That's what I suggested. Blow the thing to smithereens. I forgot to mention the water pressure Though.

Hope all goes well, Ky.

"The problem is that it takes weeks"...

Well how long has it been since this whole thing started. One would "hope" that those with the "RESPONSIBILITY", would already have started this process???

Yep, that is nearly a month ago. I have since revised and detailed my plan of attack but am being misunderstood. If you are interested go here

Explosives experts, could this be done?

Since then I have been too frustrated to even put any further thoughts forward. We will see what they (experts) come up with next. Not looking good at all. I am tired, Ky.

I'm not an expert on this stuff, but as I understand it, BOP's are rated for the wellbore pressure that they are working with (both Annular type and Ram type) as well as the water pressure at which they are working.

I can see what you mean by a hydraulic system being a 'closed system', but what I understand is that at some point, the wellbore and depth pressures can press back upon the other side of the cylinder in some way.

I only worked with surface BOP's, and was rather a beginner at that. I can tell you that shear type bop's are used on specified wells, and are rated to be able to cut the drill pipe. I'm still not quite sure what the problem is with this well. other than it is leaking, and someone said they can't close the bop. (or valve or something)

and I'm not sure what the quilled pig is. got any links for that?

Chris

I found some info on Pipe Pigs. (which makes your description and idea more understandable. I like it.)

"The name pig was originally applied to Go-Devil scrapers which were devices driven through the pipeline by the flowing fluid trailing spring-loaded rakes to scrape wax off the internal walls. The rakes made a characteristic loud squealing noise, hence the name "pig" which is now used to describe any device made to pass through a pipeline driven by the pipeline fluid. A large variety of pigs has now evolved, some of which are illustrated in Fig.l. They typically perform the following functions:

separation of products
cleaning out deposits and debris
gauging the internal bore
location of obstructions
meter loop calibration
liquids' removal
gas removal
pipe geometry measurements
internal inspection
coating of internal bore
corrosion inhibition
improving flow efficiency"

what are the numbers on how much "push down" the ocean has at 5'000ft., and how much "push up" the oil has. It seems that a bigger hole would "push down" more and the math could be figured out before hand. Remember apollo 13.

For the record, here is a typical BP Spec for this type of casing.

Believe me when I say that the reject rate of as rolled casing is very high and the acceptance criteria is set high.

BP 135 ksi Minimum Yield Strength Casing

Reference:

BP GS 102-1 Revision 1, Specification for OCTG Seamless Casing and Tubing

Section 1 SCOPE

1.2 Proprietary casing grades with minimum specified yield strengths of 135 ksi are included and shall meet the requirements for ISO 11960/API 5CT Grade Q125 Type 1 unless otherwise specified in GS 102-1 or this Supplemental Material Requirement.

The 16" 96.0 ppf shall have a minimum collapse value of 2940 psi. The 13-5/8" 88.2 ppf shall have a minimum collapse value of 6360 psi. The 11-7/8" 71.8 ppf shall have a minimum collapse value of 7810 psi. The 9-5/8" 53.5 ppf shall have a minimum collapse value of 10330 psi. The attached BP High Collapse Casing Supplemental Material Requirements apply.

Under no circumstances shall this material be used for production tubing or for production casing in wells containing hydrogen sulfide in excess of the NACE MR0175 limits.

Note: The Tubular Technology Team, EPTG Houston should be contacted for advice where

expanded and/or swaged ends are being considered.

Section 9 MATERIAL

9.1 Material Type

9.1.2 The Manufacturer shall identify the target concentrations of all elements deliberately added to each heat, regardless of the purpose of the addition. Actual concentrations of all such elements, including and in addition to the elements required by ISO 11960 (API Spec 5CT) Tables C.5/E.5 for Grade Q125 Type 1 shall be reported on the mill certificates.

Section 10 DIMENSIONS

10.3 The wall thickness tolerance for the 16" 96.00 ppf, 13-5/8" 88.20 ppf, and 9-5/8" 53.50 ppf Grade BP135 material shall be -10%.

Section 11 MECHANICAL TESTING

11.1 Charpy V-Notch Requirements

Both longitudinal and transverse Charpy tests are required.

11.1.4 Table 2

11.3 Yield and Tensile Strength

For pipe a minimum of one tensile specimen shall be taken from each lot of 50 pipes or less, and/or from each heat. In any event, the minimum test frequency for Grade Q125 Type 1 shall also be applied. The specimens shall be taken from alternating ends of the pipes and meet the requirements in Table 3. The test frequency for coupling stock, pup joints, and accessories shall be per ISO 11960 (API Spec 5CT)

11.4 Hardness

11.4.1 Any hardness value not exceeding 37 HRC is acceptable. If any hardness reading exceeds 40 HRC, the piece shall be rejected. Hardness values falling between these limits require retest. 11.4.2 Hardness variation shall be in accordance with the requirements of ISO 11960 (API 5CT) as applied to Grade Q125, except that for wall thicknesses of 25.4 mm (1 in) and greater, the maximum allowable hardness variation shall be HRC 6.

As great as the pipe and structure is there has to be expectation that failure may occur. They design "PIGS" or slugs that clear out lines when drilling. I would think a similiar method could be used to plug or cap the pipe with the risk of losing future reserves from the tapped reservoir. I think waiting for a valve is a cost effective solution. Not that anyone has taken the time to design a quick and dirty "blow-out" method for stopping a leak that is going to cause environmental havoc~!

That is why I love this forum, great minds alway thinking.

I also wondered about pumping a slurry in with umbilicals from a lay barge or other service vessel.

But, my peers from LA that are in the business are hurting now, and I think all of this input is helping them cope in the way good old boys always seem to do.

I see new report from Halliburton Tech who sued, Halliburton took a shortcut on the cementing.

Th blame game will go on for years on this one.

How the pipes are joined together? You know, not your qaqpipes, the ones of the pipe there? Thank you.

Threaded couplings.

Dear Pipeman:

I will assume the riser can not be crushed without breaking.

What would you estimate the well head pressure to be?

In your experience - where would the BOP be located in reference to where the drill pipe enters the crust.

How do you believe the BOP is designed to operate? What physical process activates it? Does it work like a huge check valve?

Can you speculate further as to why the BOP failed?

Gavilan

Gavalin,

I do the individual equipment components on shore to be transferred to a ship yard for final Assembly, FAT, and Final Inspection by others these days.

I have been trying to estimate the pressure and asking others with no responses yet; remember these are hands in Morgan City, Houma, and Lafayette, who work the rigs.

A BP Engineer and I started a dialogue last night since I had worked on the casing for Thunder Horse and I do not expect much until Monday.

It looks like the BOP or shut off valve is nearer the ocean floor now, but still with room to access. I assume that it is either Pneumatic or a combo of (or at least I hope) Pneumatic/Mechanical. I love user operator, not operator friendly devices that require constant operator monitoring. Something our IT gurus tell us we do not need because humans are prone to mistake. I have designed and overseen several retrofits of automatic units for other applications that actually reduced reject rate by giving control back to the operator, including automated UT units.

Why did the BOP fail? A better question getting asked by Houston peers is: Was the valve installed at all? I believe it was there, never stroked or tested because the rig runs 24/7 and like all of the valves attention to corrosion was not covered. The extreme detail to anti-corrosion in the valve shops while during manufacturer is the critical item for acceptance/rejection. I believe any little used device should be operated at least once a month and inspected on an annual basis. BP does take corrosion seriously, remember Transocean, a foreign flagged vessel owns it, and with the greater use of recycled steels we are finding more tramp metals today screwing up the chemistry and metallurgy of the steel.

I will try and contact Cameron Compression and an Engineering firm in Houston that I have worked with on BO projects in the past.

Can it be crushed without cracking, well probably not totally, but it would surely stop the flow and as a stop gap measure that would be a good thing. We gotta try and stay on top with new ideas and this thread has already been passed on.

I'm subscribed to this discussion out of interest. The original poster did not give us a great deal of info to work with. Only half decent info I have is from the New York Times of Friday the 30th. Much of a general nature already discussed here is being attempted or in planning stages.

Activation of the valve, underwater alteration of the oil, concrete, metal containment funnel etcetera. BP is asking for help from any quarter. I wonder where the main leak really is. The pipe is reported to be laying on the seafloor. Is it broken off at the wellhead? Why hasn't the side fall crimped the pipe? Why can't the oil rig type subs guide multiples of Steel balls to pile on top of the well head to smash it shut?

What machines, robots or torpedoes function at the depths involved?

My general concept, as a non expert, wonders if a steel cable could be run from the well head to the surface to guide steel as a smash plug. Then I wonder if a torpedo is available that would be capable of guiding itself to the well head, and what might melt the well head shut?

Certainly AH is correct that experts are required, but we are aware that sometimes experts are experts at doing things as they have been done, and not as they might be done.

I wonder as well if there is a way to electrically melt the well head shut that is possible for the equipment available to target and attach?

I look forward to expert opinions of my amateur conjectures.

P.S. Far as Steel Balls I'm thinking of the 5,000 pound pear shaped steel weight I once was involved in hanging from a supply crane on an oil tanker ship, for a crane test. This shape may not be the ideal shape, and guidance is an issue.

this appears to be a semi-official site for the incident.

the one picture shows the rov trying to close the 'shr ram' which is short for Shear Ram. This will cut the drill pipe and cap the well head. The pipe that is leaking is apparently above the bop stack.

Chris

But of course I would prefer a quick total stop of the flow.

Sort of similar to my off hand thinking--put a huge upside-down funnel over it with a pipe extending to the surface where the spilling oil could be reclaimed/used.

its being done. see my previous link here.

is there a way to manuver (like pilots do when they refuel in mid air) the boom down to above the spew and just start gathering it. also start injecting bio neutralizers into it down there.

an underwater nuclear explosion right at the wellhead. It will burn the oil already out, and compress the rock to close the well. Will the damage to the environment be any worse than if oil leaks out for another year?

Or make the hole bigger? Most of the time that is what happens. I heard it is not the only rig there. That oil wants to come up really bad I think.

Just wondering if it is even possible to drill a hole or several holes into the side of the pipe below the break using robotic submersibles? If possible, then the hole can serve as an injection port for high strength grouts that'll set-up in a short period of time, thus enabling the oil flow to be stopped or greatly reduced? How about inserting an inflatable high strength pipe pig????

I'd rather worry about recovering the oil after the leakage has been stopped and advert as much of the environmental damage as practically possible. Once the leakage has been stemmed, than time is on the side of BP to configure a tapping valve to attach to the pipe to resume oil recovery (if they wish to) sometime in the future.

Just my brain gears turning and burning....worth 2 cents since I know next to nothing about the oil industry.

The pressure of the oil in the free flowing pipe at floor depth is minimal 150 bar otherwise the water should keep the oil in the earth. I don't see that happen. and it will create more leak if it could be done. And the little visibility (with lights) will be compromised too.

Here are a couple of links with more detailed information.

(here)(here)

Thanks Chris. The more I know the less I want to know. This is far to serious to keep speculating. I will refrain, Ky.

I didn't say 'I promise to refrain', did I, Ky.

don't worry, I think explosives is a reasonable suggestion, as it solves a great deal of the problem, depending on the success. Even nuclear has been suggested, and can't be ruled out. Did the tests of nuclear weapons underwater kill any more wildlife than the Exxon Valdez spill? I doubt it. Certainly the radiation will be stopped by the water in 100 feet or so. The heat will burn the oil in the vicinity, and the shockwave will hopefull crush the formation enough to close the wellbore. So the only negative is loss of submarine life for a kilometer or so. It has been suggested on other sites I read. I doubt that such a blast will have any effect on the subterranean oil formation, or quakes for that matter, but I suppose it would be pertinent to find out whether the site is on a fault line.

Chris

Chris,

Thank you for all your imput and sharing the links that you have found.

Dan Valega

Guadalajara, Mexico

Here is a comment verbatim from an extremely knowledgeable friend on another forum I belong to, that is captive to the Industry.

His grammar and spelling is not the best, but he is front line and has 30 or so years of direct experience.

"I agree, and think we should also have much more inspections in the plants, I have this poll here and only a fraction of us even bothered to check their opinion on Inspection staffing. Second I remember back in 1978 when I was x-raying blow out preventers and tree's, when we found major defects with Rt or MT, we ground them out and repaired them to some very leanient code. BUT if one was a through wall defect we imediatly stoped all inspection and were directed (BY FMC VALVE REP) to weld it up, no follow up NDE was required, and any one who could burn a rod did, I had never burned a rod before and was asked to "fill in the holes" while I was not X raying and did some. One day I was asked to drive a load of these valves back to the Mfg, and saw the repaired valves with no follow up NDE get stamped MEXICO. This went on for about a year and in 1979ish the well down towards Mexico blew out and spilled over a million gallons. It was owned by John Connely our X-govenor, who I believe also owned the valve shop. These valves were possibly the same one that blew out. We did not get any more valves after that and I always woundered what happened to our x Govenore, so probably NOTHING. Thes valves are probably siting in 10,000 foot of water and waiting for the right time to fail......"

first you need to see some history about us invention by my father were all done with safety first look up the patents for your self. patents start with 3,603,387 ,3,703,190 ,3,714,957 ,3,804,186 ,4,030,745 ,4,289,210 , 4,302,022 ,4,408,670 ,4,427,120 , 4,597,454 ,4,491,148 ,4,577,614 ,4,615,399 these are not all he did but the one 4,491,148 is still used when i show so one how simple it is to stop a blow out in oil wells flow lines for local water, gas,inter state gas lines flow lines that bring gas and oil from offshore to plants around the world. hope i did not say to much. gerald w. schoeffler sr.

How about a shaped charge like used to demolish buildings and bridges.

Not to cut the pipe but to just crimp it. Even if it did not completely seal it off

it would reduce the oil flow.

May 24th 2010 6:32 pm

gentlemen

Get me on Dave Letterman's or Jay Leno's show (live) and i'll draw up the method of stopping the leaks. Way back I sent Kuwait Info to stop theirs. In early Nineties see; http://trillions.topcities.com/00strtrag6.html go down to 69p2 and view

a deployment boom on tankers to immediately control events should a leak like the Exxon Valdez ever occur elsewhere. my email is jackmarchant@yahoo.com

Sincerely jack marchand

I believe the flow of oil can be diverted or stopped using a Pass Through Pipe Plug (PTPP). I've used smaller versions of these when I was a HAZMAT responder. The PTPP's are widely available in sizes in inches to over 2' in diameter. They are basically a pipe surrounded be an inflatable bladder. The PTPP is inserted in the pipe and then the bladder is inflated, locking the PTPP in place. Prior to deployment, the PTPP could be fitted with a T fitting with one side of the T having an open valve and the other side fitted to the off-loading pipe leading to a tanker on the water's surface. When the PTPP is inserted and locked in the place the open vave would allow the oil to pass through decreasing the pressure required for insertion. Then, the valve would be shut off allowing the oil to be diverted to the off-loading pipe. I've used the devices on a smaller scale and they work quite well. The only concern I have is the pressure required to insert the PTPP even with the open valve on the T.

Having considered your post I now propose:

A slightly smaller diameter pass through pipe is inserted into the drill pipe. This slightly smaller diameter pipe has barbed strips of titanium running the length of the pipe on the outside wall of the pass through plug pipe.

This pass through pipe is open on the upstream end. It has a tapered down stream inside diameter. It has an internal plug with pass through ribbing that is so shaped that when released the force of the oil will drive the plug into the tapered down stream end causing the pass through ribbing to collapse and seal while forcing the down stream end of the pipe to expand slightly. This causing the barbed strips of titanium to dig into the inside wall of the drill pipe holding the plug pipe in place.

The pass through pipe is made of a material that has a yield stress value that will allow it to expand slightly as the pressure builds inside the pipe after the plug is released and closes the down stream end of the pass through pipe.

This expansion causes the rest of barbed strips of titanium to dig into the drill pipe while the softer pass through plug pipe expands and seals the drill pipe plug pipe interface.

Gavilan....your proposal seems to have merit. The barbed titanium strips would help to lock the plug in the pipe. The latest BP proposal is to make a clean cut in the pipe just above the BOP and clamp a flange in place. The flange would have a grommet or gasket that BP says will "partially" seal the pipe and allow for most of the oil to pass through the pipe and flange allowing for offloading to the surface tanker.

I think some variation of a pass through plug with valves would seal better. If something is not done to halt the flow of oil this will go on for another 8-10 weeks until the relief wells are completed.

The feds finally gave approval for the locals to build sand berms between the marsh and the oil spill. Permission was first requested on May 11. The berms will almost assuredly work. They will keep oil from reaching the marshes which are all but impossible to clean before the ecosystem is destroyed. Unfortunately, permission was given to build only two berms, and these two berm locations are the ones which are the furthest from the encroaching oil and in locations that are the most difficult to build berms. I don't know, does someone want this to fail?

For anyone that is interested in getting the best information on the oil spill, access www.wwl.com WWL is the local radio talk show station. Almost all of the programing recently has been dedicated to oil spill info including interviews with representatives from the Coast Guard, BP, and local, state, and federal government agencies. You can live stream WWL and listen live while working on your computer, which is what I'm doing now. WWL is a good place to share ideas with the hosts and quests.

Thanks,

Don

any validity to this: http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/gulf-oil-spill-supertankers-051310

tried and proven.... let's do it.

Reposted as its own thread here.

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/55231#

Well, now that that is settled, can I now try and stop the leak once and for all. Squeezing and collecting puss from a pimple doesn't stop the acne, does it?

I wonder when they are going to find my explosive, subterranean shut down fastest and best. Is it so hard to get a head around?

It hurts, Ky.

There has been a lot of discussion about using the large skimmers and suction devices (one from Kevin Costner that separates the oil and water) on the surface and then transferring the oil to the tankers. It has been done in the past.

Another problem is the use of dispersants and emulsifiers which cause a lot of the oil to be suspended in the water column. If you can't see the oil, you can't track it and pick it up. Eventually, it's going to come ashore.

This event is enough to make me want Patton back. He would have not put up with this.

I read the Esquire linked story about what it was like for experts with experience and stature to give BP a call. Since I had called BP during my most intense work concerning Haiti, and Shipping Container Housing for Haitians, the story replicated my experiences on the phone with BP secretaries in Houston.

I tell you now that when early on I said I'd be dropping steel balls on the leak, I thought I was going to be made a fool of by experts in short order.

Now I think BP is like every other product and company with wonderful ads. They tend to be the total opposite of what their advertisements say they, or their product really is.

Typically what I have seen in advertising world is that the ad writers find out what is really wrong with the product, or the company, and that is what they advertise as strengths. -Won't last, and needs lots of maintenance, becomes "Lasts forever, and is virtually maintenance free!"

Tell you now I am thinking better of my fast and dirty simple robot plan to melt with electricity the pipes together, and or, drop all the heavy 5,000 pound balls on the leak needed to stop it.

Letting this go on to August is unacceptable. A Patton, or a MacArthur, or Grant, Ike, Truman, or even Kennedy, would not put up with this mealy mouthed bunch of maybes.

Even I know that BP is shown now to be a failure. I'd by last week fired them and been dropping heavy weights on the leaking pipes and pointed out the objective was to stop the oil spew right now.

Any medic knows that the first thing to do to a gaping wound is to cover and apply pressure. Surgery is at the hospital.

We know that the robots cannot do but so much.

Yeah, Okay, keep drilling, in the meantime I'm going to drop steel all over this leak in the earth till every pipe is crushed, and there is a mound of steel so thick and high over it that no more oil comes out of this leak than normal for oil eating microbes.

Course I may also drop a layer of gravel over the steel and also some balled concrete.

To long and too much stupidity for me to not say, I am afraid I am right.

P.S. If I had not had some interactions on the phone with BP prior to this debacle, I would not be as definite now about how much they deserve to be fired from any role in saving the Gulf. Dumb asses have screwed around out of order too much for me to go along with, and respect them at all for their pronouncements.

I'd get ahold of the robots need to guide all the heavy weights needed and use them to guide the loads of steel balls and gravel, and concrete till this hole was covered and stopped. To do so I'd channel Patton, Ike, Truman, and even Lincoln, who was patient, up to a point.

Hey friends, well, obviously you cannot get through to BP, or get through to the government. Much as I am disappointed with the administration of CR4, it is still the best place for me to post my take on what to do from my political point of view, informed by you.

Who do you want in charge now? BP, or me?

BP

ME

Explosives Experts, Could This Be Done?

Just getting my second wind.

Sign a waver first. You'll need one if I am in charge. Here is the latest version. We should allow for a week, 3 shifts.

Hope all goes well, Ky.

I just listened to an interview on WWL radio, New Orleans, with an independent drilling expert. He said that the operation that is now underway has the best chance of succeeding. Here's the interesting part: The radio host asked him if this has the best chance of succeeding, why wasn't it tried first? The expert said that federal regulations mandate that any operation that may increase the release volume has to be the last effort made. Yes, this operation, cutting the pipe clean, does allow for an unrestricted flow prior to the cap and flange is installed but this operation does seem to have a better chance of stopping most of the release. I think this federal regulation needs to be re-examined.

we should all sue be pee for damages done by their emulsifiers...... STOP THE EMULSIFIERS THEY ARE AILIEN BE PEE. BURN THE BITCH AT THE SOURCE.

Don't. Lower a gigantic hose down and fix it over the busted well head. Could be 6', 20' diameter, it don't matter. Anchor a couple of tankers nearby and start sucking oil out of the tube.