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Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

04/30/2010 8:28 AM

What would your solution be to cap the open oil well head in the gulf of Mexico?

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#1

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

04/30/2010 8:45 AM

Let the experts do it.

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

04/30/2010 9:30 AM

rude!!

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#4
In reply to #2

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

04/30/2010 10:44 AM

Rude? No, sir, it's concise.

I know my limits and I have very little expertise is capping well heads 5,000 feet below sea level.

In all likelihood, there is probably no one else here that is an expert (they are probably busy in the Gulf at work).

My point is that speculation on how to cap this well is probably frivolous, particularly if it isn't a field in which you are knowledgeable. However, there is nothing wrong with asking questions with the idea of understanding the subject.

I just think that when faced with a problem beyond the scope of my domain knowledge that it is prudent to at least consult an expert or in this case, employ one.

Frankly, I wouldn't ask an electrician advice on how to diagnose heart disease.

As the original poster asked "what would I do", employing an expert is exactly what I would do. My guess is that I am right.

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

04/30/2010 11:31 AM

I believe your reply answers my point.

Who are any of us to hide behind "concise"?

Nice way to get another number for your post count though.

Semantics have no place on this forum.

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

04/30/2010 12:18 PM

Your point was a statement.

There is nothing hidden behind my post, but if you want to put it on your turn table and play it backwards, looking for satanic messages, have at it.

"Semantics have no place on this forum."

Semantics are the root of written language. If what I wrote is not clear to you, why not just ask for clarification before passing judgement?

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

04/30/2010 12:49 PM

I will not post of topic, but say it as I see it, your arrogance shines through again.

I can see making a generalized statement about a subject one is interested in and is seeking more knowledge, but if one has to post, at least make it informative and enlightening.

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#9
In reply to #7

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

04/30/2010 1:28 PM

"...at least make it informative and enlightening."

To whose standards must that fit?

I can accept and understand your opinion, but it's just the way you see it and not necessarily an absolute truth.

I am not trying to be rude, nor arrogant, but I am trying to impart a point.

Just because you did not or still do not see it changes nothing.

You claim arrogance in my post. Where?

Might it be the statement I wrote, "There is nothing hidden behind my post, but if you want to put it on your turn table and play it backwards, looking for satanic messages, have at it?"

That was a metaphor and a pretty good one, in my opinion. It means that you are looking too deep for things that do not exist.

Sadly, I feel you are simply prejudiced and judgmental about my initial remark and continue to look for evidence to back those feeling up despite all the evidence to the contrary.

I have made every effort to not be inflammatory towards your remarks, but I can't say I feel you have made any like effort toward any of mine, even when I try to explain it as clearly as I can. Rather than ask for clarification you have continuously accused me of one thing or another.

Not that you have asked how I feel about it.

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#19
In reply to #1

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

04/30/2010 9:00 PM

There the ones who got us in this mess in the first place.

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#26
In reply to #19

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

04/30/2010 11:03 PM

Excellent point! So the doctor botched the operation, maybe it's time to call a butcher to take out your appendix.

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#27
In reply to #26

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

04/30/2010 11:13 PM

I think it more closely parallels "cauterizing a wound"

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#30
In reply to #1

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

04/30/2010 11:45 PM

Perhaps if the experts knew what to do, they would have done it already?

subsequently, looking outside of the conventional for creative answers, perhaps by way of cross-breeding of disciplines, is appropriate.

Chris

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#67
In reply to #30

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/03/2010 7:33 AM

Thinking completely out of the box without any knowledge on plugging the leak at the pipe end at 5000 FT below sea surface my suggestion is to send a steel plug (powerfully electromagnetized) (to be charged only around the near viscinity of the leak). Understand they attempt with the submarine robot to reach this open end but to make the plug (magnetized) attach to the open end I think magnetism can help attach to the steel.

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#39
In reply to #1

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/01/2010 5:16 AM

Anonymous Hero,

I read the introduction to this thread and I was thinking exactly what you wrote. GA from me.

Regards

Mr. W.A Snow

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#40
In reply to #1

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/01/2010 6:33 AM

Anonymous hero

Exactly

GA to you.

Sleepy

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#104
In reply to #1

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

06/19/2010 11:57 PM

We are still waiting.

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#3

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

04/30/2010 10:26 AM

I just heard on New Orleans radio station, WWL, there is a valve that is being flown in from Italy. I don't know anything about that particular valve. I would imagine it is the gate valve type that would be fastened over the pipe in the open position and then closed. But, of course, a reasonably open end has to be in place for the valve to fit over. The pipe is kinked in a couple of places allowing the oil to escape. I don't know how that would be accomplished.

I think burning the oil on the water's surface is a good option, as well as trying to stop the leak and capturing the oil on the surface. I recommend adding an oxidizer to the oil. Oxidizers help products burn: like combining oxygen with acetylene to burn steel. The oxidizer will increase the rate of burning, and increase the temperature that will allow for more complete combustion which will lessen the air pollution. A good oxidizer is ammonium nitrate, used to make the explosive ANFO. Ammonium nitrate is cheap, effective, available and stable. It requires an explosion to initiate detonation. This is not a normal solution but we need to start thinking outside of the box, and do it quickly. The oil is starting to come ashore now and it looks like we won't be able to stop the leak, 210,000 gallons/day, for weeks.

Also, biodiesel (BD) has been used to treat hard-to-clean shoreline areas. The BD, being a vegetable product, decomposes much quicker than petroleum oil. BD has been sprayed over oil contaminated areas to accelerate the oil decomposition. It is very difficult to physically clean oil from marsh areas.

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#8

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

04/30/2010 1:17 PM

U asked ~ here's the answer.

When 'stuff' is outta control, and there ain't no "experts" available because this exact situation hasn't happened before, you don't sit around thinking and theorizing.

This event is QUICKLY growing into a disaster of unquantifiable proportion.

The answer can be introduced with an analogy:

When "bunker-buster" bombs were needed (quickly) for a desert-war effort ... rather than gearing-up a factory line to make them totally from "scratch", didn't some genius step forward and state that a certain type of (surplus) artillery barrel would suffice for the bodies...?

Well --- BP is building (from "scratch") an "enviro-dome" to cover the area of the leaks, and allow (via tubes, already available) for pumping-recovery of the oil into tankers/barges, yes? (How much O/T will get put into THAT, to have it on-site in a few weeks?)

I'll bet there are several barges ready for the grave, which, had they REALLY wanted to get this mess under control, they could have been torching/modifying enroute to the site a week ago. At the same time, commandeering a couple of them football-field-sized construction barges with cranes that'll lift the 'eiffle tower' onto the seabed, they could have converged on-site to "flip/cover/and contain" just enough of the flow (pumping into barges *already* by this time) such that the floating containment boom companies could have kept up with the amount that would invariably escape.

We're not privvy to a sketch of the size / orientation / layout of the well remnants twisted-up down there, so anyone can easily "poo-poo" the concept. But, those who DO have access to those sonar sweeps etc would probably testify to the fact that it WOULD be possible to do such a thing, even if the crane barges had to move something out of the way first.

Praying for a good outcome here.

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#69
In reply to #8

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/03/2010 11:01 AM

This is exactly my thought, with one exception. That the vessel be fitted with a nipple and a valve. Now, when it is flipped it can then be connected to a line and pumped to the surface

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#76
In reply to #8

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/24/2010 10:28 PM

it's very much like Apollo 13, "Houston.....we have a problem" . But no team was in place for this one. Why not? With the temps. and pressure and visibility, the way they are, quite a task. They should have killed the well right away. And there are others on marginal maintenance. Sea water and electronics will never get allong.

Why do you think they waited so long?

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#10

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

04/30/2010 3:19 PM

This item as presented is a specific and typical post for this forum.

Aren't we all and always looking for answers without information?

My opinion is that something that has been build, should have a way to be removed or demolished.

I hope they have underwater robots and lights to find a workable place along that 1500 m pipe where a device can be put to either squeeze the pipe or one that slides over the pipe --a device like a big throat valve with cutter and shut off valve.

In the first place, engineering such a part now is too late?

That should have been done (and be in place) before even drilling the hole.

Not that I say it isn't so. But before developing, building and using something -- all kind of possible defects should have been remedied -

- yes, I said before... Again we do not know and probably will never get to the real answers, because too much name and too many dollars are involved.

IMO this is sign xn to show that more care and budget should go to home care.

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

04/30/2010 4:30 PM

I envision a huge jaws of life type clamp, not a cutter.

Petrobras, The Brasilian Oil firm, that I number among my clients, and some other SA Oil Companies are the pros when it comes to deep sea drilling.

Wonder why they have not been called in, especially Petrobras and PDVSA, who both have refinery investments and other interests i the USA.

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#12
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Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

04/30/2010 4:46 PM

The cutter is also my 2nd option. The option " squeeze" meant "strangle to death".

Thanks.

It is just a pity that it doesn't come as a standard accessory (even if it costs a million) on a multi billion platform operation.

Just jaws can be dangerous to "crack the pipe" It should never exceed the maximum elasticity.., a smooth transition from round to flat should be obtained.

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#13
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Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

04/30/2010 5:14 PM

I would think that is almost guaranteed to happen at the two opposing edges where the pipe would be squeezed flat and form a 180° fold in the metal.

There really doesn't appear to be any current news and information on the status and methods being tried to stop the flow of oil.

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#15
In reply to #13

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

04/30/2010 5:38 PM

Thanks, most likely it can happen.

But bad timing to find out now.

All these problems should be taken of by the design and choice of the pipeline. It is not the first rig that shows this problem. Since the pressure upwards is a quasi constant parameter the flow can only be diminished to work on the diameter.

But who are we?

The oil experts have probably the knowledge. Stopping the leak will need a team of different disciplines working together, and specific tooling that can handle the depth situation. Since the pipe still has some length they can start as high as possible to work easier.

Accidents studies have different phases for the researchers to go through. And since this kind of accidents (luckily) don't happen every day, emotional stress has to be overcome too. (same as in ER)

The saying is " even the devil gets used to the fire" --- or something like it.

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#79
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Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/25/2010 10:55 AM

Red Adare, a fire fire extrodinare, what would he wanted to do? I think he would have killed the well or burned it at its source, either way that is the way of firefighters, Heroes all, tackle ANY JOB immediately

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#28
In reply to #13

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

04/30/2010 11:19 PM

Anonymous Hero

You Are right, although your first reply was a bit abrupt. In hind site perfectly acceptable though. How could one find or think of a solution if one has no idea about the hard ware and other parameters in place.

You are right, these guys do nothing else but and have all the necessary data and skills. They are for sure very passionate about the whole matter and should not be blamed, or all thrown into the basket of environmental terrorists. These are to be found a few stories up.

Now my intuitive suggestions:

1. If they find the fire/burning solution a good why don't they start the real thing and start burning it at the source?

2. Why not get one of those flash submarines and let them torpedo the thing to smithereens. Blast the crap out of it. Ah, I see, that could trigger an earthquake

3. Put a huge beaker over it and pump the stuff onto ships. I know that the piping must be in a very messy state but , again, another well guided torpedo can sort that out. One just needs a clean starting point, I assume.

The overall feeling, (dejavu) and unimaginable consequences remind me of Chernobyl. I had only two days until my flight to Australia after it happened and we were happy to get out of there. From the the middle of Europe that is, 1600 clicks away. This is even more catastrophic because it seems that nobody is telling the truth about it. Estimates at best, (You can't handle the truth, thanks Jack)

A week after the meltdown it was known what the consequences are going to be and what to do about it. In this case even the worse case scenario might be overshadowed by reality. I dread to think how these poor people being effected are going to get through this. No seafood in New Orleans? Wow,this is bad!! Very very bad. I could cry for my fellow humans but the feeling of anger towards the infallible technology (experts?) stops me doing so.

America, you are being tested to the limit, just hang in there! My thoughts go out to you all.

Lord have mercy, Ky.

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#44
In reply to #28

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/01/2010 11:08 AM

here is an article where the BBC has accidentally provided some good background on the situation. It discusses both burning and cones, et al.

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#58
In reply to #28

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/02/2010 12:07 PM

One problem is that submarine torpedos are not meant to operate a mile down. I suggest an explosive be used but it will have to be built to withstand enormous pressure down there. Blast that well head in an attempt to cave in the drill pipe. Fixing a mile of wrecked pipe a mile underwater while that pipe is shifting under blowout pressure is not feasable. Bomb the wellhead repeatedly until it stops leaking, don't wait 2 months to try to fix a pipe that is already wrecked and leaking 200,000 gallons a day.

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#60
In reply to #58

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/02/2010 2:42 PM

As far as I know the "bombing" of "on shore" has as goal to stop the fire due to the blast which interrupts the continuity of the burning fluid column. When the fire stopped then a "plugging" device is put in place.

Your proposal is totally out of logics. A bomb will only increase the opening of the well and the flow. I may be wrong but I am not at all convinced that an underwater blast could help.

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#61
In reply to #58

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/02/2010 7:54 PM

Dear Guest

How ever hard I try to understand the hard ware involve, I always come to the same conclusion.

Blast the thing to smithereens.

I mean Just take it all out. Create a shock wave and aim it down. "Tabula rasa", clean table, slate!!

There are dangers involved, but can it get any worse? Maybe the shock wave would travel to the next well and take that one out, for example. You see I don't even know were this next well is. I have no idea how shock waves travel in oil either. I am not an explosives expert.

I can't remember his name now but it was something with Red, just can't think of it at the moment, (Adair) the guy that blew out oil fires (yes I know, that was above ground). He and his son were hired and he just blew them out. Maybe not just but with a lot of experience. Why not put that to the experts in the field. If they say they could do, do it. What, not enough explosives? You have to be joking.

So, what are the dangers of blowing it all to whatsthename.

It would cave in, wouldn't it?

It would not create a tsunami would it?

It would not trigger an earthquake, would it?

It would kill and maim less wild life.

It would be as fast as one could say "lets clean up and get on with it", wouldn't it.

It would save the cradle of fisheries along thousands of miles of cost line.

If they have bunker busters, they should have something in their arsenal that could do the job. Just keep them coming, one after the other. Again, no, I am not an explosives expert, but have guided the things on computer games.

I mean really, has there ever been an earth quake which resulted in the earth opening up and spilling all the oil there is? Why does that not happen? You see I am not a geological expert either.

Were is that bloody panic button, Ky.

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#70
In reply to #61

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/03/2010 12:00 PM

Red Adair, played by John Wayne in Hell Fighters if I recall was a true story of a Texas company. However their job was to put out the fire, the blast was just to deprive the flame of oxygen, the oil continued to blow out of the well afterwards. Once the fire is extinguised the well can be capped but you can't get men and equipment to the well while it is burning.

Saddly John Wayne is unavailable for this job.

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#71
In reply to #70

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/03/2010 9:09 PM

I'm myself not seeing how bombs would help in the underwater situation.

I am wondering why the valve can't be electrically melted shut, or the well head low tech piled upon with steel blocks and concrete blocks.

I am also very curious about what caused the explosion on this rig, either officially, or unofficially.

My guidance problem for shaped steel plugs is likely much less than for a containment vessel at those depths with a number of currents likely as temperatures change from depth to depth in a mile of sea.

I have strong doubts that the funnel steel concept will make it. How will it be guided? Is it round? What are the currents. What anchoring is possible?

I'd about recommend just dropping any heavy stuff I could find over the hole as fast as possible. Either that or power the pipe wellhead so melted shut the oil stopped floating.

We have seen on CR4 information about sub wire guidance systems with the width of a human hair.

What's the problem here guys? Doesn't anybody on Globalspec know how to right now stop the Oil leak? Are they keeping it a secret.

John Wayne was an actor. Ronald Reagan was an actor. Audie Murphy was a Medal of Honor winner with no rank above Lieutenant. He became an actor.

All righty then! There is a hole in the ocean floor man made spewing oil. Plug it. Just plug it and cover it up. That's the plan.

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#41
In reply to #13

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/01/2010 7:09 AM

stop thinking...

you are not an expert

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#43
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Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/01/2010 9:32 AM

Ah, not an expert in drilling, but I do have an informed opinion on metal.

While I don't know the specific material in play here, all metals have a minimum bend radius.

I also know that there is a neutral line that runs trough the bend that is somewhere between the inner radius and outer radius of the bend. The position of that line is called the K-Factor.

Inside that line material gets compressed, while outside that line it stretches (elongation).

When you clamp a pipe shut the elongated sides of the pipe will form a bend of 180° and the inside radius of the bend will approach zero.

Not too many metallic materials can achieve this type of bend radius without fracturing or fatiguing of the metal. Generally, those that do well with small bends are very soft and ductile, which probably will not make a good attribute for a pipe under pressure a mile long.

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#49
In reply to #43

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/01/2010 11:44 AM

You are right up to a point:

- it cannot be a"fatigue" aspect since such a tube crushing is done ONLY once

- the most important factor is the ratio between the strain at Rm and the strain Re

If the ratio is big and steels for such tubing are in this category then the crushing can be total without problems.

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#105
In reply to #13

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

06/24/2010 10:22 PM

Got off Fox hearing Huckabee give every reason BP ought to be kicked out of control of the Deepwater Horizon, who then turned around and said BP ought not be bankrupted.

I disagree. BP is incompetent. Proof is that oil is still spewing.

Replication of conditions on the seafloor prior to the ongoing disaster is called for.

Short out melting of steel may be an option.

Corporations are not to be allowed to destroy ecosystems. The containment funneling process is a failure. Melting the metal and covering the area with bricks, balls, gravel, bowling balls, concrete balls, steel from ghost ships is a massive undertaking.

It would get in the way of surgical approaches.

However it would work.

If not, say how? I am here influenced by the info link you provided about further spew lower down further causing me to suggest blanketing and replication of conditions prior to the spew.

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#14
In reply to #12

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

04/30/2010 5:23 PM

From past experience with deep hole casing I would imagine this casing is 135ksi.

I have consulted for BP and their spec is darn good, wish I could up load it to the forum.

I did a crush test on 24" x 1.00" (Probably greater than the casing, as this was for CNG Cylinders) a few years back, USS Tubular has the means to do this with their land based tools

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#33
In reply to #12

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/01/2010 12:00 AM

As with BOP's at that depth, the problem is with the hydraulics i think. Pressure ratings for hydraulic equipment has to be off the charts, because of the offset created by the ambient pressure. BOP's and associate accumulators have their pressure ratings go up proportional to the depth at which they are operating. (as I understand it.) So if you are going to operate hydraulic shears capable of pinching off the casing at that depth... well I'm just not sure that such equipment would be managable.

So the square covers that are being built are a 'mechanical' solution, that I think should become standard, and the bop's/accumulators should operate underneath them. That way, to seal the system, you have a purely mechanical way of isolating the wellhead from the sea.

chris

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#35
In reply to #33

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/01/2010 1:00 AM

Good post Chris;

"because of the offset created by the ambient pressure."

Imagine a hydraulic cylinder with 100 psi working against a 10 inch piston. The force on the piston rod is 1000 lbs. Now submerse this enclosed system to a depth where the ambient pressure is 500 psi.Wouldn't the force on the rod still be 1000lbs as long as the system remained enclosed?

I don't think the problem is the offset. Perhaps it is keeping the system sealed.

Now imagine taking your shears or Guillotine Blade and connecting them to an operating rod and piston,enclosing them,taking them to depth, and then slowly, or not so slowly open the fluid side of the piston to the ambient pressure and let the water act as your working fluid. You could call it The One Cut Wonder. I don't think the pipe can be squeezed. Its too brittle. It will break. The way it sounds this stuff probably can't be cut in the conventional sense. I believe there are specially designed cutting explosives that could be used for cutting the riser but I thought the One Cut Wonder was an interesting concept anyway.

How about a Rocket Powered Quilled Pig? You make or modify a pipe pig that is close to the inside diameter of the pipe, surround it with sharp titanium barbed quills that will lay flat when you light its behind filled full of slow burn explosives, and give it a long shaped nose that will center it up as it enters the pipe. The long tapered nose would let you work against the high pressure oil stream long enough to get it lined up with the end of the nose just inside the pipe when you launch this thing into the pipe. The acceleration causes the quills to lay flat against the pig until it stops and starts to get pushed back out the pipe. As the pig starts to get pushed back by the high pressure oil the barbed quills dig into the inside of the pipe and hold it there plugging the pipe.

You might even give it a bit of a flexible body so it could run up a not so round hole. Then you could call it a Rocket Powered Quilled Puffer Pig. Modify it with guidance fins and you could Tow Fly to the point the guiding nose enters the opening and then light it. The PGM fins fall off when the explosives light. In this case it could be a Rocket Powered Aquatic Flying Quilled Puffer Pig.

I'll bet you could make one in a couple of days if you had the right machine shop and people.

Better yet; if we were real lucky the well head pressure would be less than the ambient pressure and you could just blow the damn thing and let the water pressure shut it down as it contaminated the oil basin with sea water. Kinda like a reverse spill. I wonder what the gradient is at the well head? I wonder what it was when the pipe was at the surface!!!

Gavilan

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#36
In reply to #35

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/01/2010 1:18 AM

you could just blow the damn thing and let the water pressure shut it down as it contaminated the oil basin with sea water. Kinda like a reverse spill.

That's what I suggested. Blow the thing to smithereens. I forgot to mention the water pressure Though.

Hope all goes well, Ky.

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#46
In reply to #36

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/01/2010 11:17 AM

The crude oil pressure is much higher than the water's weight. This is why it is flowing out. I have seen numbers up to 3000 PSI for well pressure. I don't know about this particuliar well.

Your crushing tool would have to work against the well pressure too!

One solution they proposed (real experts...) is to drill a relief well nearby that would intercept the oil flow while they plug the damaged pipe. The problem is that it takes weeks.

Maybe, one would be wise to always pre-drill a relief well for all under sea installations. If the main well ever becomes damaged, we could quickly connect to the relief well and pump the oil out while plugging the damaged one. This would be a pro-active measure that would not be so expensive and would be worth the investment. They already have all kind or redundancies on the oil rig, why not a redundant well?

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#73
In reply to #46

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/24/2010 11:14 AM

"The problem is that it takes weeks"...

Well how long has it been since this whole thing started. One would "hope" that those with the "RESPONSIBILITY", would already have started this process???

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#75
In reply to #73

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/24/2010 6:41 PM

Yep, that is nearly a month ago. I have since revised and detailed my plan of attack but am being misunderstood. If you are interested go here

Explosives experts, could this be done?

Since then I have been too frustrated to even put any further thoughts forward. We will see what they (experts) come up with next. Not looking good at all. I am tired, Ky.

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#37
In reply to #35

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/01/2010 2:07 AM

I'm not an expert on this stuff, but as I understand it, BOP's are rated for the wellbore pressure that they are working with (both Annular type and Ram type) as well as the water pressure at which they are working.

I can see what you mean by a hydraulic system being a 'closed system', but what I understand is that at some point, the wellbore and depth pressures can press back upon the other side of the cylinder in some way.

I only worked with surface BOP's, and was rather a beginner at that. I can tell you that shear type bop's are used on specified wells, and are rated to be able to cut the drill pipe. I'm still not quite sure what the problem is with this well. other than it is leaking, and someone said they can't close the bop. (or valve or something)

and I'm not sure what the quilled pig is. got any links for that?

Chris

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#52
In reply to #37

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/01/2010 1:57 PM

I found some info on Pipe Pigs. (which makes your description and idea more understandable. I like it.)

"The name pig was originally applied to Go-Devil scrapers which were devices driven through the pipeline by the flowing fluid trailing spring-loaded rakes to scrape wax off the internal walls. The rakes made a characteristic loud squealing noise, hence the name "pig" which is now used to describe any device made to pass through a pipeline driven by the pipeline fluid. A large variety of pigs has now evolved, some of which are illustrated in Fig.l. They typically perform the following functions:

separation of products
cleaning out deposits and debris
gauging the internal bore
location of obstructions
meter loop calibration
liquids' removal
gas removal
pipe geometry measurements
internal inspection
coating of internal bore
corrosion inhibition
improving flow efficiency"

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#65
In reply to #35

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/03/2010 12:03 AM

what are the numbers on how much "push down" the ocean has at 5'000ft., and how much "push up" the oil has. It seems that a bigger hole would "push down" more and the math could be figured out before hand. Remember apollo 13.

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#16

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

04/30/2010 7:04 PM

For the record, here is a typical BP Spec for this type of casing.

Believe me when I say that the reject rate of as rolled casing is very high and the acceptance criteria is set high.

BP 135 ksi Minimum Yield Strength Casing

Reference:

BP GS 102-1 Revision 1, Specification for OCTG Seamless Casing and Tubing

Section 1 SCOPE

1.2 Proprietary casing grades with minimum specified yield strengths of 135 ksi are included and shall meet the requirements for ISO 11960/API 5CT Grade Q125 Type 1 unless otherwise specified in GS 102-1 or this Supplemental Material Requirement.

The 16" 96.0 ppf shall have a minimum collapse value of 2940 psi. The 13-5/8" 88.2 ppf shall have a minimum collapse value of 6360 psi. The 11-7/8" 71.8 ppf shall have a minimum collapse value of 7810 psi. The 9-5/8" 53.5 ppf shall have a minimum collapse value of 10330 psi. The attached BP High Collapse Casing Supplemental Material Requirements apply.

Under no circumstances shall this material be used for production tubing or for production casing in wells containing hydrogen sulfide in excess of the NACE MR0175 limits.

Note: The Tubular Technology Team, EPTG Houston should be contacted for advice where

expanded and/or swaged ends are being considered.

Section 9 MATERIAL

9.1 Material Type

9.1.2 The Manufacturer shall identify the target concentrations of all elements deliberately added to each heat, regardless of the purpose of the addition. Actual concentrations of all such elements, including and in addition to the elements required by ISO 11960 (API Spec 5CT) Tables C.5/E.5 for Grade Q125 Type 1 shall be reported on the mill certificates.

Section 10 DIMENSIONS

10.3 The wall thickness tolerance for the 16" 96.00 ppf, 13-5/8" 88.20 ppf, and 9-5/8" 53.50 ppf Grade BP135 material shall be -10%.

Section 11 MECHANICAL TESTING

11.1 Charpy V-Notch Requirements

Both longitudinal and transverse Charpy tests are required.

11.1.4 Table 2

Table 2: Charpy V-Notch Absorbed Energy Requirements
Grade Test Temperature

-10°C (14oF)

Minimum Average

J (ft-lbs)

Minimum Individual

J (ft-lbs)

135 Longitudinal 65 (48) 43 (32)
135 Transverse 32 (24) 21 (16)

11.3 Yield and Tensile Strength

For pipe a minimum of one tensile specimen shall be taken from each lot of 50 pipes or less, and/or from each heat. In any event, the minimum test frequency for Grade Q125 Type 1 shall also be applied. The specimens shall be taken from alternating ends of the pipes and meet the requirements in Table 3. The test frequency for coupling stock, pup joints, and accessories shall be per ISO 11960 (API Spec 5CT)

Table 3: Tensile Requirements

Grade

Elongation

(%)

Yield Strength Minimum

MPa (ksi)

Yield Strength Maximum

MPa (ksi)

Tensile Strength Minimum

MPa (ksi)

BP135 Per API formula (0.7% total elongation under load) 931 (135) 1034 (150) 965 (140)

11.4 Hardness

11.4.1 Any hardness value not exceeding 37 HRC is acceptable. If any hardness reading exceeds 40 HRC, the piece shall be rejected. Hardness values falling between these limits require retest. 11.4.2 Hardness variation shall be in accordance with the requirements of ISO 11960 (API 5CT) as applied to Grade Q125, except that for wall thicknesses of 25.4 mm (1 in) and greater, the maximum allowable hardness variation shall be HRC 6.

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#17
In reply to #16

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

04/30/2010 8:08 PM

As great as the pipe and structure is there has to be expectation that failure may occur. They design "PIGS" or slugs that clear out lines when drilling. I would think a similiar method could be used to plug or cap the pipe with the risk of losing future reserves from the tapped reservoir. I think waiting for a valve is a cost effective solution. Not that anyone has taken the time to design a quick and dirty "blow-out" method for stopping a leak that is going to cause environmental havoc~!

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#18
In reply to #17

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

04/30/2010 8:26 PM

That is why I love this forum, great minds alway thinking.

I also wondered about pumping a slurry in with umbilicals from a lay barge or other service vessel.

But, my peers from LA that are in the business are hurting now, and I think all of this input is helping them cope in the way good old boys always seem to do.

I see new report from Halliburton Tech who sued, Halliburton took a shortcut on the cementing.

Th blame game will go on for years on this one.

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#20
In reply to #16

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

04/30/2010 9:21 PM

How the pipes are joined together? You know, not your qaqpipes, the ones of the pipe there? Thank you.

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#21
In reply to #20

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

04/30/2010 9:27 PM

Threaded couplings.

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#29
In reply to #21

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

04/30/2010 11:33 PM

Same as the drilling pipes? Conical thread - half/half ? (Fem. Male) Where are the media? No significant news? I knew it: extreme capitalism is as bad, if not worse than extreme communism.

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#47
In reply to #29

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/01/2010 11:28 AM

For such a comparison you should have lived under communism and I doubt you did As the technically oriented person you claim to be you can only say : "I believe that .... not "I knew it:....".

Usually one can compare 2 situations he knows, as long as you did not experiment on your own skin the 2 systems you should not comment the way you did!

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#53
In reply to #47

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/01/2010 2:57 PM

Privet. Maybe I did or still do?

Even after the commies period, Tshernobyl? No or wrong info? Just like here - I saw for the first time a presentation on CNN news yesterday, that by the way I experience as a very poor brainwash exercise.

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#56
In reply to #53

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/02/2010 5:00 AM

You do not know what you write about.

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#31
In reply to #16

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

04/30/2010 11:54 PM

Dear Pipeman:

I will assume the riser can not be crushed without breaking.

What would you estimate the well head pressure to be?

In your experience - where would the BOP be located in reference to where the drill pipe enters the crust.

How do you believe the BOP is designed to operate? What physical process activates it? Does it work like a huge check valve?

Can you speculate further as to why the BOP failed?

Gavilan

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#42
In reply to #31

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/01/2010 9:30 AM

Gavalin,

I do the individual equipment components on shore to be transferred to a ship yard for final Assembly, FAT, and Final Inspection by others these days.

I have been trying to estimate the pressure and asking others with no responses yet; remember these are hands in Morgan City, Houma, and Lafayette, who work the rigs.

A BP Engineer and I started a dialogue last night since I had worked on the casing for Thunder Horse and I do not expect much until Monday.

It looks like the BOP or shut off valve is nearer the ocean floor now, but still with room to access. I assume that it is either Pneumatic or a combo of (or at least I hope) Pneumatic/Mechanical. I love user operator, not operator friendly devices that require constant operator monitoring. Something our IT gurus tell us we do not need because humans are prone to mistake. I have designed and overseen several retrofits of automatic units for other applications that actually reduced reject rate by giving control back to the operator, including automated UT units.

Why did the BOP fail? A better question getting asked by Houston peers is: Was the valve installed at all? I believe it was there, never stroked or tested because the rig runs 24/7 and like all of the valves attention to corrosion was not covered. The extreme detail to anti-corrosion in the valve shops while during manufacturer is the critical item for acceptance/rejection. I believe any little used device should be operated at least once a month and inspected on an annual basis. BP does take corrosion seriously, remember Transocean, a foreign flagged vessel owns it, and with the greater use of recycled steels we are finding more tramp metals today screwing up the chemistry and metallurgy of the steel.

I will try and contact Cameron Compression and an Engineering firm in Houston that I have worked with on BO projects in the past.

Can it be crushed without cracking, well probably not totally, but it would surely stop the flow and as a stop gap measure that would be a good thing. We gotta try and stay on top with new ideas and this thread has already been passed on.

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#45
In reply to #42

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/01/2010 11:08 AM

I'm subscribed to this discussion out of interest. The original poster did not give us a great deal of info to work with. Only half decent info I have is from the New York Times of Friday the 30th. Much of a general nature already discussed here is being attempted or in planning stages.

Activation of the valve, underwater alteration of the oil, concrete, metal containment funnel etcetera. BP is asking for help from any quarter. I wonder where the main leak really is. The pipe is reported to be laying on the seafloor. Is it broken off at the wellhead? Why hasn't the side fall crimped the pipe? Why can't the oil rig type subs guide multiples of Steel balls to pile on top of the well head to smash it shut?

What machines, robots or torpedoes function at the depths involved?

My general concept, as a non expert, wonders if a steel cable could be run from the well head to the surface to guide steel as a smash plug. Then I wonder if a torpedo is available that would be capable of guiding itself to the well head, and what might melt the well head shut?

Certainly AH is correct that experts are required, but we are aware that sometimes experts are experts at doing things as they have been done, and not as they might be done.

I wonder as well if there is a way to electrically melt the well head shut that is possible for the equipment available to target and attach?

I look forward to expert opinions of my amateur conjectures.

P.S. Far as Steel Balls I'm thinking of the 5,000 pound pear shaped steel weight I once was involved in hanging from a supply crane on an oil tanker ship, for a crane test. This shape may not be the ideal shape, and guidance is an issue.

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#48
In reply to #45

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/01/2010 11:30 AM

this appears to be a semi-official site for the incident.

the one picture shows the rov trying to close the 'shr ram' which is short for Shear Ram. This will cut the drill pipe and cap the well head. The pipe that is leaking is apparently above the bop stack.

Chris

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#22

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

04/30/2010 9:50 PM

If there is still some non leaking pipe upstanding, a bigger pipe could be put over the existing one.

In case there is a considerable height available the joint doesn't have to be sealed at all.

The oil has pressure upwards, is lighter than seawater and should spew in the new pipe, where at the end the oil can be directed to a destination like open barges, tankers -

one of the disadvantages: no valve allowed to shut it off.

It will become like a champagne glass row to be filled.

My sick brain thinks about using thick dredging pipes, downward connected, hanging in floating cranes and when sufficient length has reached, a submarine down there, doing the coordinated operation and slide over job. Will be dark there with all the oil around in the beginning, until the pipe is deep enough. But who am I. This is just a thought. Wished they shared some info.

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#23
In reply to #22

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

04/30/2010 9:53 PM

But of course I would prefer a quick total stop of the flow.

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#32
In reply to #22

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

04/30/2010 11:59 PM

Sort of similar to my off hand thinking--put a huge upside-down funnel over it with a pipe extending to the surface where the spilling oil could be reclaimed/used.

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#34
In reply to #32

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/01/2010 12:01 AM

its being done. see my previous link here.

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#64
In reply to #22

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/02/2010 11:52 PM

is there a way to manuver (like pilots do when they refuel in mid air) the boom down to above the spew and just start gathering it. also start injecting bio neutralizers into it down there.

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#24

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

04/30/2010 10:36 PM

an underwater nuclear explosion right at the wellhead. It will burn the oil already out, and compress the rock to close the well. Will the damage to the environment be any worse than if oil leaks out for another year?

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#25
In reply to #24

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

04/30/2010 10:54 PM

Or make the hole bigger? Most of the time that is what happens. I heard it is not the only rig there. That oil wants to come up really bad I think.

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#38

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/01/2010 3:44 AM

Just wondering if it is even possible to drill a hole or several holes into the side of the pipe below the break using robotic submersibles? If possible, then the hole can serve as an injection port for high strength grouts that'll set-up in a short period of time, thus enabling the oil flow to be stopped or greatly reduced? How about inserting an inflatable high strength pipe pig????

I'd rather worry about recovering the oil after the leakage has been stopped and advert as much of the environmental damage as practically possible. Once the leakage has been stemmed, than time is on the side of BP to configure a tapping valve to attach to the pipe to resume oil recovery (if they wish to) sometime in the future.

Just my brain gears turning and burning....worth 2 cents since I know next to nothing about the oil industry.

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#66
In reply to #38

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/03/2010 12:20 AM

The pressure of the oil in the free flowing pipe at floor depth is minimal 150 bar otherwise the water should keep the oil in the earth. I don't see that happen. and it will create more leak if it could be done. And the little visibility (with lights) will be compromised too.

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#50

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/01/2010 12:29 PM

Here are a couple of links with more detailed information.

(here)(here)

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#54
In reply to #50

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/01/2010 4:56 PM

Thanks Chris. The more I know the less I want to know. This is far to serious to keep speculating. I will refrain, Ky.

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#62
In reply to #54

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/02/2010 7:56 PM

I didn't say 'I promise to refrain', did I, Ky.

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#63
In reply to #62

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/02/2010 11:00 PM

don't worry, I think explosives is a reasonable suggestion, as it solves a great deal of the problem, depending on the success. Even nuclear has been suggested, and can't be ruled out. Did the tests of nuclear weapons underwater kill any more wildlife than the Exxon Valdez spill? I doubt it. Certainly the radiation will be stopped by the water in 100 feet or so. The heat will burn the oil in the vicinity, and the shockwave will hopefull crush the formation enough to close the wellbore. So the only negative is loss of submarine life for a kilometer or so. It has been suggested on other sites I read. I doubt that such a blast will have any effect on the subterranean oil formation, or quakes for that matter, but I suppose it would be pertinent to find out whether the site is on a fault line.

Chris

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#55
In reply to #50

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/01/2010 10:33 PM

Chris;

Thanks for the great links. The first one looks like a room full of experts. Some with very bad news in regards to increasing flow rates.

Gavilan

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#80
In reply to #50

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/30/2010 3:20 AM

Chris,

Thank you for all your imput and sharing the links that you have found.

Dan Valega

Guadalajara, Mexico

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#51

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/01/2010 12:34 PM

Here is a comment verbatim from an extremely knowledgeable friend on another forum I belong to, that is captive to the Industry.

His grammar and spelling is not the best, but he is front line and has 30 or so years of direct experience.

"I agree, and think we should also have much more inspections in the plants, I have this poll here and only a fraction of us even bothered to check their opinion on Inspection staffing. Second I remember back in 1978 when I was x-raying blow out preventers and tree's, when we found major defects with Rt or MT, we ground them out and repaired them to some very leanient code. BUT if one was a through wall defect we imediatly stoped all inspection and were directed (BY FMC VALVE REP) to weld it up, no follow up NDE was required, and any one who could burn a rod did, I had never burned a rod before and was asked to "fill in the holes" while I was not X raying and did some. One day I was asked to drive a load of these valves back to the Mfg, and saw the repaired valves with no follow up NDE get stamped MEXICO. This went on for about a year and in 1979ish the well down towards Mexico blew out and spilled over a million gallons. It was owned by John Connely our X-govenor, who I believe also owned the valve shop. These valves were possibly the same one that blew out. We did not get any more valves after that and I always woundered what happened to our x Govenore, so probably NOTHING. Thes valves are probably siting in 10,000 foot of water and waiting for the right time to fail......"

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#57

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/02/2010 11:54 AM

Massive explosives detonated at the wellhead in an attempt to cave in the well. BP is proposing to attempt to fix 5000+ feet of wrecked pipe under blowout pressure, a mile down, leaking in several place, and likely to spout new leaks. Waiting 2 months for them to try as we leak 200,000 gallons of crude per day means the worst environmental disaster in US history (If not world history). Drastic action is needed and soon. Biggest bombs we can make detonate at a mile down, and as many as it takes to cave in that well head. Please respond to FPratt81@gmail.com

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#59

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/02/2010 2:21 PM

first you need to see some history about us invention by my father were all done with safety first look up the patents for your self. patents start with 3,603,387 ,3,703,190 ,3,714,957 ,3,804,186 ,4,030,745 ,4,289,210 , 4,302,022 ,4,408,670 ,4,427,120 , 4,597,454 ,4,491,148 ,4,577,614 ,4,615,399 these are not all he did but the one 4,491,148 is still used when i show so one how simple it is to stop a blow out in oil wells flow lines for local water, gas,inter state gas lines flow lines that bring gas and oil from offshore to plants around the world. hope i did not say to much. gerald w. schoeffler sr.

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#68

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/03/2010 8:39 AM

How about a shaped charge like used to demolish buildings and bridges.

Not to cut the pipe but to just crimp it. Even if it did not completely seal it off

it would reduce the oil flow.

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#72

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/22/2010 4:10 PM

build a hot air balloon type capsule. Made of 3 inch rubber approximately 28 feet in circumfrence and about 15 feet in length weighed down from the bottom straps that are built into the rubber of the balloon. A hose would be used to suction oil out of the air balloon into a tanker on the surface of the water. since every one knows that the oil rising up will fill up the air compasity chamber of the air balloon, thus making it easier to suction the oil through the hose into the tanker.

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#77
In reply to #72

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/25/2010 2:04 AM

Reservoir pressure is about 22,000 psi - ambient about 2200.

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#74

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/24/2010 6:41 PM

May 24th 2010 6:32 pm

gentlemen

Get me on Dave Letterman's or Jay Leno's show (live) and i'll draw up the method of stopping the leaks. Way back I sent Kuwait Info to stop theirs. In early Nineties see; http://trillions.topcities.com/00strtrag6.html go down to 69p2 and view

a deployment boom on tankers to immediately control events should a leak like the Exxon Valdez ever occur elsewhere. my email is jackmarchant@yahoo.com

Sincerely jack marchand

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#78
In reply to #74

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/25/2010 9:47 AM

I believe the flow of oil can be diverted or stopped using a Pass Through Pipe Plug (PTPP). I've used smaller versions of these when I was a HAZMAT responder. The PTPP's are widely available in sizes in inches to over 2' in diameter. They are basically a pipe surrounded be an inflatable bladder. The PTPP is inserted in the pipe and then the bladder is inflated, locking the PTPP in place. Prior to deployment, the PTPP could be fitted with a T fitting with one side of the T having an open valve and the other side fitted to the off-loading pipe leading to a tanker on the water's surface. When the PTPP is inserted and locked in the place the open vave would allow the oil to pass through decreasing the pressure required for insertion. Then, the valve would be shut off allowing the oil to be diverted to the off-loading pipe. I've used the devices on a smaller scale and they work quite well. The only concern I have is the pressure required to insert the PTPP even with the open valve on the T.

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#86
In reply to #78

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/31/2010 1:10 AM

Having considered your post I now propose:

A slightly smaller diameter pass through pipe is inserted into the drill pipe. This slightly smaller diameter pipe has barbed strips of titanium running the length of the pipe on the outside wall of the pass through plug pipe.

This pass through pipe is open on the upstream end. It has a tapered down stream inside diameter. It has an internal plug with pass through ribbing that is so shaped that when released the force of the oil will drive the plug into the tapered down stream end causing the pass through ribbing to collapse and seal while forcing the down stream end of the pipe to expand slightly. This causing the barbed strips of titanium to dig into the inside wall of the drill pipe holding the plug pipe in place.

The pass through pipe is made of a material that has a yield stress value that will allow it to expand slightly as the pressure builds inside the pipe after the plug is released and closes the down stream end of the pass through pipe.

This expansion causes the rest of barbed strips of titanium to dig into the drill pipe while the softer pass through plug pipe expands and seals the drill pipe plug pipe interface.

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#87
In reply to #86

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/31/2010 11:06 AM

Gavilan....your proposal seems to have merit. The barbed titanium strips would help to lock the plug in the pipe. The latest BP proposal is to make a clean cut in the pipe just above the BOP and clamp a flange in place. The flange would have a grommet or gasket that BP says will "partially" seal the pipe and allow for most of the oil to pass through the pipe and flange allowing for offloading to the surface tanker.

I think some variation of a pass through plug with valves would seal better. If something is not done to halt the flow of oil this will go on for another 8-10 weeks until the relief wells are completed.

The feds finally gave approval for the locals to build sand berms between the marsh and the oil spill. Permission was first requested on May 11. The berms will almost assuredly work. They will keep oil from reaching the marshes which are all but impossible to clean before the ecosystem is destroyed. Unfortunately, permission was given to build only two berms, and these two berm locations are the ones which are the furthest from the encroaching oil and in locations that are the most difficult to build berms. I don't know, does someone want this to fail?

For anyone that is interested in getting the best information on the oil spill, access www.wwl.com WWL is the local radio talk show station. Almost all of the programing recently has been dedicated to oil spill info including interviews with representatives from the Coast Guard, BP, and local, state, and federal government agencies. You can live stream WWL and listen live while working on your computer, which is what I'm doing now. WWL is a good place to share ideas with the hosts and quests.

Thanks,

Don

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#81

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/30/2010 1:25 PM
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#82
In reply to #81

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/30/2010 2:01 PM

tried and proven.... let's do it.

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#83
In reply to #82

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/30/2010 3:01 PM

Reposted as its own thread here.

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/55231#

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#84
In reply to #82

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/30/2010 5:04 PM

Well, now that that is settled, can I now try and stop the leak once and for all. Squeezing and collecting puss from a pimple doesn't stop the acne, does it?

I wonder when they are going to find my explosive, subterranean shut down fastest and best. Is it so hard to get a head around?

It hurts, Ky.

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#85
In reply to #84

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/30/2010 6:22 PM

For what it is worth:

Wat baten kaars en bril,....als de uil niet zienen wil?

A saying that dates from the 900's and roughy translates as:

WHAT IS THE USE FOR A CANDLE AND GLASSES

WHEN THE OWL DOESN'T WANT TO SEE?

found this in an old Snoeck's Almanac

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#88
In reply to #81

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/31/2010 12:34 PM

There has been a lot of discussion about using the large skimmers and suction devices (one from Kevin Costner that separates the oil and water) on the surface and then transferring the oil to the tankers. It has been done in the past.

Another problem is the use of dispersants and emulsifiers which cause a lot of the oil to be suspended in the water column. If you can't see the oil, you can't track it and pick it up. Eventually, it's going to come ashore.

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#89
In reply to #88

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/31/2010 8:38 PM

This event is enough to make me want Patton back. He would have not put up with this.

I read the Esquire linked story about what it was like for experts with experience and stature to give BP a call. Since I had called BP during my most intense work concerning Haiti, and Shipping Container Housing for Haitians, the story replicated my experiences on the phone with BP secretaries in Houston.

I tell you now that when early on I said I'd be dropping steel balls on the leak, I thought I was going to be made a fool of by experts in short order.

Now I think BP is like every other product and company with wonderful ads. They tend to be the total opposite of what their advertisements say they, or their product really is.

Typically what I have seen in advertising world is that the ad writers find out what is really wrong with the product, or the company, and that is what they advertise as strengths. -Won't last, and needs lots of maintenance, becomes "Lasts forever, and is virtually maintenance free!"

Tell you now I am thinking better of my fast and dirty simple robot plan to melt with electricity the pipes together, and or, drop all the heavy 5,000 pound balls on the leak needed to stop it.

Letting this go on to August is unacceptable. A Patton, or a MacArthur, or Grant, Ike, Truman, or even Kennedy, would not put up with this mealy mouthed bunch of maybes.

Even I know that BP is shown now to be a failure. I'd by last week fired them and been dropping heavy weights on the leaking pipes and pointed out the objective was to stop the oil spew right now.

Any medic knows that the first thing to do to a gaping wound is to cover and apply pressure. Surgery is at the hospital.

We know that the robots cannot do but so much.

Yeah, Okay, keep drilling, in the meantime I'm going to drop steel all over this leak in the earth till every pipe is crushed, and there is a mound of steel so thick and high over it that no more oil comes out of this leak than normal for oil eating microbes.

Course I may also drop a layer of gravel over the steel and also some balled concrete.

To long and too much stupidity for me to not say, I am afraid I am right.

P.S. If I had not had some interactions on the phone with BP prior to this debacle, I would not be as definite now about how much they deserve to be fired from any role in saving the Gulf. Dumb asses have screwed around out of order too much for me to go along with, and respect them at all for their pronouncements.

I'd get ahold of the robots need to guide all the heavy weights needed and use them to guide the loads of steel balls and gravel, and concrete till this hole was covered and stopped. To do so I'd channel Patton, Ike, Truman, and even Lincoln, who was patient, up to a point.

Hey friends, well, obviously you cannot get through to BP, or get through to the government. Much as I am disappointed with the administration of CR4, it is still the best place for me to post my take on what to do from my political point of view, informed by you.

Who do you want in charge now? BP, or me?

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#90
In reply to #89

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/31/2010 9:25 PM

BP

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#91
In reply to #90

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

05/31/2010 9:56 PM

ME

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#93
In reply to #91

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

06/01/2010 6:45 PM

Explosives Experts, Could This Be Done?

Just getting my second wind.

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#99
In reply to #91

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

06/18/2010 11:34 PM

and ME too. Can you fix that tomorrow?

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#100
In reply to #99

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

06/18/2010 11:48 PM

Sign a waver first. You'll need one if I am in charge. Here is the latest version. We should allow for a week, 3 shifts.

Hope all goes well, Ky.

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#92
In reply to #89

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

06/01/2010 10:46 AM

I just listened to an interview on WWL radio, New Orleans, with an independent drilling expert. He said that the operation that is now underway has the best chance of succeeding. Here's the interesting part: The radio host asked him if this has the best chance of succeeding, why wasn't it tried first? The expert said that federal regulations mandate that any operation that may increase the release volume has to be the last effort made. Yes, this operation, cutting the pipe clean, does allow for an unrestricted flow prior to the cap and flange is installed but this operation does seem to have a better chance of stopping most of the release. I think this federal regulation needs to be re-examined.

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#103
In reply to #88

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

06/19/2010 10:38 AM

we should all sue be pee for damages done by their emulsifiers...... STOP THE EMULSIFIERS THEY ARE AILIEN BE PEE. BURN THE BITCH AT THE SOURCE.

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#94

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

06/04/2010 4:15 PM

Hello instead of a cap to stop leak this company makes Plugs with ID for inside the pipe .It is made out of aluminium plugs mechanical with bypass they have a few different types I have been doing pipeline 25 years and this could work as robot is inserting plug relief valve is open like the caps air vents I hope you take a look at these plugs here is link

http://www.gdrexl.de/shop_GB/pi2119498652.htm?categoryId=0&gclid=CNKxqaqdh6ICFRX6iAodFio3UQ

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#95

Re: Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill

06/04/2010 4:19 PM

Don't. Lower a gigantic hose down and fix it over the busted well head. Could be 6', 20' diameter, it don't matter. Anchor a couple of tankers nearby and start sucking oil out of the tube.

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