Coast Guard via AP The base of one of BP's containment domes is moved to a construction area at Wild Well Control in Port Fourchon, La., on April 26. See, crisis over. Some super smart engineer done gone and made his self a hero. Just curious, how big of a pump is it going to take to pull a vaccuum on this thing?

BP is having three domes built — each weighing 74 tons and made of metal and concrete. Each will be 40 feet tall, 24 feet wide and 14 feet deep.

Are there three leaks then - or are they making one to do the job & two for spares?

3 big un's.

Some guy at Rice Univ. says what many of in the fishing business say..........at 5,000 feet , there's going to be a lot of current on the way down. You kjnow the ol' saying," everything looks good on paper."

40' tall x 24'x14' wide....that's an awful lot of surface area for 2-4 knot current to push against.

The pretty 3d-CAD-type cartoon picture shows a straight line from ship to well. I wonder what type of tubing will be used and what do they do if they need to shut it off to change ships?

It also shows the 74 ton dome sitting on top of the pipe line. what if it pinches the pipe at another location? Or maybe, it'll smash it shut???

I am like every other arm chair engineer down here right now. We're all yaking but no one has enough knowledge to know if we even know what we are talking about.

It says that "all six rams have been actuated, but it is still leaking" and that "perhaps the rubbers are eroded"

I don't know how it would be possible to leak with 6 rams actuated. rubbers or no, if the ram blocks are in place, then the rubbers would only allow it to leak maybe 10% of what it was.

So probably the pipe is still in place, but bloated out, so the pipe ram blocks can't go around the pipe, and probably the shear rams didn't work at all. Even if the shears or blind rams flattened the the drill pipe, there would still potentially be a large space available for oil to get through.

It must be an ungodly mess for 6 rams not to be able to close it. Perhaps it is full of set concrete or something... it doesn't make any sense. (and is there actually 6 rams? or 3 rams with 6 ram blocks (opposing))

I think if they can open any valves below the bop stack, and divert while they stab on the new stack, that has some good hope of working.

Chris

At 1500 m (≈ 5000 ft) depth, the ocean pressure (external to the pipe) is about 2200 psi. The internal pressure of the oil is higher than that (else there would be no problem in the first place). If whatever dome or pipe can be decently sealed around the well head, there will be no need to pull a vacuum on it; there will be opposite problem of oil pressure > or >> than sea pressure.

Just speculating here... If it were a one-mile water line at 137 gpm, it would be about a 5-inch pipe. I don't know how oil design compares, nor at what temperature the oil emerges.

Ça va--Éditeur Cranqueshafte (a bit of Cajun ancestry there)

It will work even without a seal.(if they can stick it over the old pipe) Because of the specific density difference. I suppose if not sealed well, even some seawater will be sucked up too due to the created suction.(venturi-effect) relative to the depth of take up. Only when the sucking pipe (or hose) is too narrow extra pumping will be necessary or the spill will come from down below. Only my (troubled) vision. They use this big surface "catchers" probably because they cannot connect properly (e.g pipe leak not directly upwards).

Just sent some net gear to Prince William Sound Science Center for sampling herring.

Had a lengthy discussion with one of the Ol' Skool guys up there that was at the Valdez incident. We were saying that it could happen anywhere and anytime....

go figure.

de ja vu ,eh mon amis?

I'd like to ask where the 2200 psi figure comes from. Is that measured?

(actually it comes very close to my calculation of 2214.70 at 5000 feet. I built a spreadsheet last year, but never had it validated.)

2.31 feet = 1 psi. This will differ a bit in salt water, like 2.29 feet or something, but I don't have a brine table in front of me right now and am too lazy to look it up. I'm with you on as-yet-unvalidated spreadsheets; I have a fancy monster that calculates pipe pressure drop via Moody roughness and Darcy-Weisbach, plus a bunch of other stuff, but it hasn't been vetted by an independent source. Goodness knows how many mistakes it might contain, though it seems so far to track decently with other data.

Chris. The oil comes out of the well. The water pressure @1500 meter is roughly this water column or 150 bar ( actually I think this is for sweet water which is lighter) The pressure will be higher. Further we need to know the diameter of the pipe and with the volume of the spill (output) the pressure in the pipe can be calculated and comes on top of this. I am waiting for more details about the effective diameter, and also the estimated size of the leaks through the walls (rupture?) to put a figure on that. In the beginning I thought there was more pipe available to encapsulate. So it can be a very difficult operation, where big pumps need to pump oil AND seawater, a bad combination. If the new pipe upwards can be big enough to let the oil float up, then they can pump out of that "reservoir". This is one thought. Using the boxes as supply needs super pumps. (1500 meter suction?) I have posted in a certain blind thought and my hypothesis will be more hypothetical the less pipe on top of the BOP is left. I have been thinking about 50 meters or more. But it looked to beautiful to probably be true.

Dear Netmaker,

This is the third thread on this issue. (#1)(#2)

I don't think that we will see much new on this one, that couldn't be discussed on the first two, and you are supposed to search CR4 for existing threads before creating new ones.

Chris

Hello Chris,

You are correct. I did not search CR4.

that's okay. I'm obviously wrong about the 'no new information'.

It will take some big one shot hydraulic clamp to squeeze that all together.

DVMDSC yes, blind/shear ram BOP's have HUGE hydraulic rams in an opposed configuration that have guillotine blades that double as gate valves that shear off any pipe inside the well if any, crimp and fold the ends over, then seal in the well like a double gate valve. the pistons on the ones for land rigs I've worked around are about 4" in dia. and they operate at 5000 psi, which means they develop 62832 lbs of force each, and there are two rams on each side, more than enough to shear out the pipe. some that are designed for HPHT service (High Pressure/High Temperature) operate at 7500 psi too. This one most likely did.

Now mind you that 5000 psi number is a differential pressure between the external pressure and the cylinder pressure, the control lines from the topside HPU must supply about 7500 psi at the surface to compensate for the hydrostatic pressure at depth.

API has been working on ratifying HPHT equipment service standards for some time but to date as far as I am aware (as of December of last year which was when I last worked on HPHT equipment), they remain in draft while the various companies that have representatives on the committee haggle over the specific requirements HPHT equipment must meet. I suspect this event may force the API to ratify SOMETHING quickly, even if they have to immediately revise it later. One of the big differences that API has been planning to incorporate for HPHT service was a change in the qualification testing regime, up to 15M service (15,000 psi), API 6A requires a 1.5X working pressure qualification testing of every device before it leaves the factory. but for 20M service (20,000 psi) (and conceivably above), the qualification pressure is 1.25X WP, taking into account that a 30K test pressure for 20M service is a whole lot higher pressure than 22,500psi for 15M. Meeting a 30K test pressure, even once would involve MUCH stronger test equipment, MUCH stronger test cells in case anything failed, MUCH thicker walls on the equipment itself, seals that are even stronger. And there is some question if some of this equipment could even be built using the materials that are available if 30K becomes law. Barstock is only so big, and the larger the I.D. the stronger the material has to be to withstand the pressure and virtually ALL oilfield materials have hardness and strength limitations due to corrosion and cracking issues. So there are a LOT of larger pieces of equipment (such as BOP's) that will have trouble meeting that pressure, even just once.

Nice presentation.

Visual Aids are always good! thanks for the pictures.

Here is another picture of an undersea stack, part of a system called the Lower Marine Riser Package (LMRP) (I think I see 4 rams and 2 Annular bops in this stack, plus a maze of hydraulic lines.)

Chris,

What kind of CAD program drew those beautiful diagrams?

MS Visio. not really a cad program. but fab for drawing pictorial diagrams.

Thank You for the explanation Rorschach, that makes it a lot more comprehensive. Do you have any idea of the temperature there below, and also that of the crude oil?

The temp at the sea floor will be at or below freezing (except at that pressure, water won't freeze until it gets a LOT colder).

The wellbore temp at TOD will probably be in the neighborhood of about 150C or so, but the fluid escaping will be SOMEWHAT cooler because it will have lost SOME of it's heat on the way up, but not much. but those are guesses.

GA Rorschach

That was very interesting information about the past. It would have been appropriate to mention what you would suggest to be done. After all the knowledge is spread what does it help?

I think any thing should at least be looked at. If you find blowing the whole thing out of existence is to .... what, risky? then so be it. I have further thoughts on this and have gotten away from just one blast but several controlled blasts at different depths. Here is a pic

1, 2, 3 in that order.

Just say'n, Ky.

Ky, and in the time it takes to drill that borehole to set your charges, they could have drilled a relief well and plugged the well properly and KNOWN it would solve the problem.

"The well cannot be "capped" in the normal manner because there is 5000 ft of 22" diameter riser connected to the top of the BOP that has both casing as well as production tubing/drill pipe in a concentric configuration inside it. And all of that is twisted up on the sea floor like so much spaghetti."

Rors,

If that much twisted tubing and such is on top of the BOP, then how are these guys from BP going to set the 74 ton Dome on it? Wouldn't the Dome be off balance resting on that pile? Or, will the weight just crush the tubing down anyay?

The dome doesn't have to stand on the floor to have no spill. It should just cover the leaks over a minimal distance. Of course fixing it should be better to keep it in place and to help support the weight of the (hose or) pipe. 74 tons is only above water.

I'm confused. "5000 ft"? of tube? How deep is it actually where this is?

Is there a link to a set of numbers, map, data to date?

This is the figure that has been communicated. They can only reach with special underwater deep sea robots.

I checked my sea maps and the gulf has depths down to 4.200 meters. (divide by .3048 for feet) There it should be 1.500 meters as said. Go and pick up the oil there needs that length of pipe. And probably a very thick one and large diameter to work comfortable. And it needs to be on the right place and stay up above sea level. Pumping the oil out of that big long oil sausage will be the job. IMO, there are a few options if they go for this solution, but that is just what I think, with the data available.

Yes, 5000 ft of water (give or take) 18,000 ft of bore hole below that. The tube that connects the BOP which is on the sea floor and the drill ship is 22" diameter, and may contain 16 or 18" casing (probably 16"), and some unknown diameter of drill pipe. BP has begun drilling the relief well but that may take 90 days to complete.

As I previously posted, here is the typical specs for a well like this from another GOM BP project I worked on. This casing went to Thunderhorse, a nearby block. Remember that we are more concerned with collapse than expansion in deep well casing.

Supplemental Material Requirements

BP 135 ksi Minimum Yield Strength Casing

for

Tubular Bells Segment 2 Appraisal Well MC 682 #1

16" 96.00 ppf, 13-5/8" 88.20 ppf, 11-7/8" 71.80 ppf, and 9-5/8" 53.50 ppf

Revision 4

4 February 2005

Reference:

BP GS 102-1 Revision 1, Specification for OCTG Seamless Casing and Tubing

Section 1 SCOPE

1.2 Proprietary casing grades with minimum specified yield strengths of 135 ksi are included and shall meet the requirements for ISO 11960/API 5CT Grade Q125 Type 1 unless otherwise specified in GS 102-1 or this Supplemental Material Requirement.

The 16" 96.0 ppf shall have a minimum collapse value of 2940 psi. The 13-5/8" 88.2 ppf shall have a minimum collapse value of 6360 psi. The 11-7/8" 71.8 ppf shall have a minimum collapse value of 7810 psi. The 9-5/8" 53.5 ppf shall have a minimum collapse value of 10330 psi. The attached BP High Collapse Casing Supplemental Material Requirements apply.

Under no circumstances shall this material be used for production tubing or for production casing in wells containing hydrogen sulfide in excess of the NACE MR0175 limits.

Note: The Tubular Technology Team, EPTG Houston should be contacted for advice where

expanded and/or swaged ends are being considered.

Section 9 MATERIAL

9.1 Material Type

9.1.2 The Manufacturer shall identify the target concentrations of all elements deliberately added to each heat, regardless of the purpose of the addition. Actual concentrations of all such elements, including and in addition to the elements required by ISO 11960 (API Spec 5CT) Tables C.5/E.5 for Grade Q125 Type 1 shall be reported on the mill certificates.

Section 10 DIMENSIONS

10.3 The wall thickness tolerance for the 16" 96.00 ppf, 13-5/8" 88.20 ppf, and 9-5/8" 53.50 ppf Grade BP135 material shall be -10%.

Section 11 MECHANICAL TESTING

11.1 Charpy V-Notch Requirements

Both longitudinal and transverse Charpy tests are required.

11.1.4 Table 2

11.3 Yield and Tensile Strength

For pipe a minimum of one tensile specimen shall be taken from each lot of 50 pipes or less, and/or from each heat. In any event, the minimum test frequency for Grade Q125 Type 1 shall also be applied. The specimens shall be taken from alternating ends of the pipes and meet the requirements in Table 3. The test frequency for coupling stock, pup joints, and accessories shall be per ISO 11960 (API Spec 5CT)

11.4 Hardness

11.4.1 Any hardness value not exceeding 37 HRC is acceptable. If any hardness reading exceeds 40 HRC, the piece shall be rejected. Hardness values falling between these limits require retest. 11.4.2 Hardness variation shall be in accordance with the requirements of ISO 11960 (API 5CT) as applied to Grade Q125, except that for wall thicknesses of 25.4 mm (1 in) and greater, the maximum allowable hardness variation shall be HRC 6.

BP Supplemental Material Requirements

High Collapse Casing

Reference:

BP GS 102-1 Revision 1, Specification for OCTG Seamless Casing and Tubing

Background

Optimization of tubular designs and determination of actual performance limits of the pipe requires information beyond the standard ISO/API data requirements. The following information is required, when HC (High Collapse) is specified on the purchase agreement, so that more accurate performance ratings can be established. This information will allow (1) best use of the standard tubulars, (2) optimization of future designs, and (3) determination of actual performance properties.

Straightening – All HC (High Collapse) Grades shall be hot rotary straightened with an exit temperature not more than 165^oC (300^oF) below the final specified tempering temperature.

Wall Thickness Statistics – Wall thickness data shall be developed based on full length, 100% surface are coverage, ultrasonic inspection of the pipe. Wall thickness statistics are required for minimum wall, average wall, and maximum wall. These parameters must be defined for each lot and to the fullest extent possible on a per pipe basis.

Ovality Statistics - Ovality statistics shall be provided. Full-length automated ovality measurements are preferred on a per pipe and lot basis. If this capability is not available, ovality statistics may be provided from manual measurements. Manual measurements shall be taken on both ends of 25% of the joints and at the middle of 10% of the joints.

Physical Collapse Testing – Physical collapse testing shall be performed on one (1) pipe per 100, for each lot (size, wall thickness, grade combination). Test specimens for collapse and mechanical property testing shall be cut from each sample pipe. As many collapse test specimens as possible, up to a maximum of four (4), shall be cut from each sample pipe with the requirement that the minimum length of each collapse test specimen shall meet or exceed an L/d ratio of 8.0. Each collapse test specimen should have dimensional properties recorded per the requirements of API 5C3. All collapse testing shall be conducted to failure. A standard tensile specimen test shall be performed from a section of each sample pipe.

Data - All data should be provided in electronic form. Details for the frequency, format, and provision of this data shall be by mutual agreement between BP and Manufacturer.

There are a few, but nobody is going to risk such an asset in a forest of debris on the ocean floor, nobody wants to see it get entangled and lose another person or persons. Deep Marine Technologies has a one man "manned ROV" (for lack of a better term.) but I'm not sure on it's max depth and I don't know how many they built, I never really saw the utility over a standard ROV personally given the risks involved. Woods Hole and Scripps have a couple two and three man units. The Russians have the twin Mir's that they discovered the Titanic with that could do it too. The unmanned ROV's are doing a perfectly adequate job without risking anyone's neck so why mess with a good thing?

Today we'll see where this monster is really heading. It is right at an apex ( if my old charts are correct) of where the eddies from the Gulf Loop turn and head for the Florida Straights.

If it drifted too close to the Mouth of the Mississippi (just to the west of South Pass), it can caught up in that Westerly Drift that runs right along the coast, all the way to Brownsville, polluting the entire saltwater marsh of both Louisiana and Texas).

On the still dark side, the Loop can take it through the Keys and out into the Atlantic , but not before slipping next to every pristine beach and marine sancutary in Florida's western counties.Can we say,"Velcoomin Is'land!"

I am NOT a very bright person or a NOAA forecaster. These are just guesses from my Ol' Skool charts and stuff.

Anyway, we are all on Blob watch today. Time to drink that last cup of coffee and chicory and head for the shop.

A customer of mine said they hired a few hundred folks for one day work then let most of them go.

Fishing boats are NOT set up to handle much of anything that takes up space on a deck....like oil boom material.

Just a few hundred feet on a large trawler maybe..... a lot less on a smaller skiff.

Who knows?

No one is talking about the explosion that caused the problem. The people setting the explosives would also know how to defeat the safety valves.

Let no crises go to waste

There were no explosives involved, you need to take your tin-foil had conspiracy theory and get lost. Natural gas escaping from the well due to a subsea blowout was ignited by equipment (engines most likely) on the surface whch cause the explosion and fire.

The offset relief wells will kill it.IF,they don't get in to much of a hurry.

A little oilfield humor,

Do you know the difference between a Fairy Tale story,and normal oil

field roughneck talk?

One starts out "Once Upon a Time" the other"now this ain't no bullshit!!!"

Joe in Texas

addendum:Fisherman from Giddings,,,if you see this e-mail me.Billy.

Joseph at Rhinehart

Tell you what,guys,,,go over to my friend Leonard's website,,its called The Drillers Club.Best to look up,what the capital letters stand for,this is provided on site.,POH ,GIH,(pull out of hole,go into hole),,,made up for the time book,naturally,,every moment is logged.

If you should post there,be careful of what you say,unless of course you know what you are talking about.

Leonard runs an awesome site,.

Joe in Texas

interesting site. I do like it. Thanks for the pointer. The link is here for anyone else interested.

Ok folks. I just heard over National Public Radio that a US Coast Guard ROV has provided the press some public pictures of the BOP. I have not located these pictures, nor do I know if they're available to the public. But before my brain turns to mush I wanted to post what I heard.

It appears that the BOP has attempted to cut off the flow by shearing into the pipe and folding over the end. The problem seems to be that part of the drilling rig is still inside the pipe. Now I'm certain that nobody knows which part of the drilling rig was at the level of the BOP when it tried to close. It would not surprise me that some parts of the drilling assembly would be very difficult to cut through in addition to the main pipe itself. I doubt that the BOP designers anticipated anything sturdy inside the main pipe while trying to stop a blowout. But this complication explains a lot about the trouble at the bottom. It kind of makes sense too, with the Deepwater Horizon having a catastrophic failure on the surface that ultimately sank the vessel.

Check this out!

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/natural_resources/article7114087.ece

I have some knowledge about the Enterprise BOP issue. BP required so much testing that they quite literally wore the seals out on the BOP, then complained that the seals wouldn't hold pressure. The BOP had to stripped down and refurbished (and tested again!)

Annular?

No, I'm going on faulty memory, but I'm pretty sure the issue was the rubber trim parts in the ram stack, everybody expects to replace the bag in the Annular, so I don't see that as being that big of a deal. It too was a Cameron BOP if I recall. memory tells me that there were some problems with the BOP control systems on the Enterprise ( new ship, new installation, hasn't left the builder's dock.) and they kept testing and testing and wore the dang BOP clean out. Meanwhile it was overdue for a contracted job and there was a lot of angry people involved as a result.

annular

Its the space between the bore hole and the steel casing

The sealing of this space is the most important part of well drilling and often the hardest part of construction. Water or Oil.

Back in the 70s I spent a long time with water well drillers in Eastern Ontario teaching this stuff through seminars and forced them to grout the annular space through contractual work. Most of the drillers accepted that they could not just use a drive shoe and let the drill cutting overflow the casing to seal the top 3 or 4 feet of annular space. We had 88 villages in the area doing new wells and sealing up old wells. The money was good so they had to comply. A good lessen for all and new regs came into play later. When a fellow from Halliburton finished his talk some of the drillers said they now knew twice as much as before. His response was two time zero is still zero. It served to remind that we all have lots to learn and the primary reason I participate on this site. If I can find a way off zero maybe I will double my knowledge.

KevinM in this context, what he was asking me (I think, it's getting late and I'm getting kinda punchy) was if it was the annular BOP which works differently than a conventional ram type bop, or the ram type (they are both used during drilling/intervention) that was the problem on the Enterprise. Chris posted some 3d model images of some BOP's and the first one was an annular type. the second was a ram type. (those models could have helped me a lot a couple years ago Chris, I wish i'da known you had them already modelled up, I woulda begged and pleaded with you for them. I ended up having to model them up myself for space envelope modelling on some equipment to be deployed on the Q4000 in a hurry.)

The only image in the above pile of pictures I made was the accumulator system. the rest were from the web. We usually dealt with Hydril etc. not cameron so much, for reconditioning.

Here is a stack that I made up a couple of years ago, but it not a complete bop.. it was more for marketing and sales. (7-1/16" bore) (3 rams, 1 annular, 1 spool at the bottom)

I have done a bop model (rams) but I'm not sure if it is proprietary at the moment. I'll ask.

Chris

Oddly enough Chris, me neither! But I've been kicking around the oil patch for over 20 years and things sort of soak in by osmosis after a while.

but that job was weird even by oil patch standards. I'm taking the reply off "off topic" because it is somewhat related to what goes on at the depths we are discussing here.

a little background on this job:

deep water pipelines have problems that shallower water pipelines don't and it is a function of temperature. the oil is flowing out of the reservoir and going from pretty dang hot, to pretty dang cold over a very short distance. and things want to try to solidify and come out of solution when the oil cools down like that. things like paraffins and other really long chain hydrocarbons want to solidify. Also the oil has a certain percentage of both water and natural gas entrained (without natural gas, you couldn't get the oil out without pumping.) and natural gas and water, at the kind of cold temps and high pressures does something really weird, it forms something called methane hydrate. Methane Hydrate is water ice but with methane trapped in the pore spaces between the crystal lattice structure. it is VERY unstable, small changes in temp or pressure can cause it to spontaneously revert back to gas very quickly which can result in very high pressure spikes.

pipeline operators inject chemicals like methanol into the stream to prevent these things from happening. but when the two ends of the pipeline went offline due to the hurricane, whatever was in the pipeline sat there for a month or two and things started to solidify. the customer had hoped that there would be some small amount of flow possible so that they could flow solvents through the line and clean it out, but it was not to be, it was plugged up solid. Enter us.

the customer cut the pipeline at each end and raised the cut ends up to the surface, one on the Q4000, the other to the platform it was connected to. on the Q4000 we mounted our 600HP snubbing jack onto a work window which had the snubbing bowls (collet type pipe grippers that hold the pipe while the snubbing jack repositions to get another bite) mounted on a rotary table. in that way we could push and rotate the pipe down through the pipeline. all of this was also mounted on a heave compensator to deal with vertical motion of the ship.

The end of the pipe had an auger bit with small jet orifices drilled in it's face to allow jetting with high pressure methanol or eventually xylene. the pipeline was 22 miles long and we were able to get to 15 miles of it if memory serves, far enough that we broke through the restriction and allowed them to flow more chemicals, and eventually pump a foam rubber pig through to clean it out the rest of the way. Mariner was a happy customer.

very interesting story!

Hi Rorschach

That was very informative and gives some insight into problems hardly predictable.

I have a question and please leave me in one piece if it is too over the top;

Would it not be possible to have a heating coil along the whole length and inside of the pipe? Filled with steam or hot water? It could be anchored at the point were pipe meets water for the first time. It would not even have to be made from steel, so to keep it more flexible and guaranty mixing of hot and cold sections within the pipe.

Even if it would be in place and not filled with anything, in the case you mention, it would have been of great advantage, would it not? Like you said:"small changes in temp or pressure can cause it to spontaneously revert back to gas very quickly which can result in very high pressure spikes." This "hot hose" could even avoid these spikes or at least mike them less spiky.

Could not the "spaghetti in a macaroni" (I know, it is really two macaronis and the hose macaroni is cooked) act as a thermostat. If the temperature drops, solidifying the oil mix, the steam or water (inside the hose) temperature would be increased and a standardized viscosity achieved.

Please nobody mention the cost of heating the steam or water or the latest price for spaghetti. This should have been an off topic because it does not solve the problem at hand. Then again, none of the suggestions have come up with a silver bullet solution, so I thought, I might as well.

One can't even say "I hope everything goes to plan" any more with out speculating. One thing is for sure though, the amount of people being informed about the risks of this "baby shoe" (The imponderables) technology has created a larger informed public. That is about the only good thing that has resulted out of this, Ky.

by annular, I meant annular bop, as opposed to ram style.

btw, did you ever hear of Hall Well drilling in Lanark Cty?

Wilf Hall MacDonald's Corner. Wilf was one of the few drillers that could move from the lecture to practical very quickly. Most of the guys thought they knew everything but did not grout annular spaces. Our surveys were finding as high as 50% well construction problems and well contamination. Wilf is a quiet but great Guy always respected that firm. He also grouted casings. I knew all the drillers in Ontario at one time. Is Wilf still drilling?

Sorry about the butinski. I had mentioned annular space in another thread or maybe this one? I was referring to the annular space. I shoulda read more from Rorscharch. He is quite knowledgeable on the oil well operations. He helps people to learn so enjoy his comments. All CR4ers can learn from Rorscharts comments.

my ex is now married to Wilf's son Mark. I don't think wilf works it any more. Mark does. (as I understand it.)

Another link:

http://blog.iongeo.com/?p=1961

And another:

http://www.presstv.com/detail.aspx?id=125303&sectionid=3510203

Ok, thanks. It does make sense that the panic shut off mechanism should be designed to cut off and close the pipe on anything expected to be inside the pipe. So unless this well just happened to blow up a rock to shame the Cullinan Diamond at the instant that the BOP jaws tried to close, the BOP simply failed. This is a scenario that should have been anticipated. (The iongeo blog was very informative.)

Thanks, trying to send on anything informative that I get from Houston.

Believe me, I have had to sort through a lot of hash, rehash, and spin today.

I see a potential in the scenario that just might make it easier, maybe someone else in LA has the same thought and is waiting to see if it works.

I will try to find the Hardness of the drill string

I earlier posted the specs for similar casing.

Actually guys it could be trying to close either on a drilling collar or a casing landing tool or a cementing tool, or for that matter the bop may be full of cement that has set up which the blind shear would likely be unable to close around/shear. for those not in the know, a drilling collar is a big thick wall weight that is put in the drilling string to add weight on the bit/tool when the string is what is known as "pipe light" meaning that the piston forces from the pressure below the tool/bit/float valve/etc. is greater than the weight on the drill string. Under those conditions the pipe has to be shoved into the hole under force and held down or it will pop right back out.

Rorschach,

If those huge shears can cut an 18" stee casing pipe, or whatever size steel drill pipe (or joint), why would it have any trouble with new concrete?

steel will shear at about 57% of it's yeild. Cement (not concrete, no gravel used because it couldn't be pumped using a high pressure triplex pump and there is the segregation issue, gravel will want to sink), eh, not so much. but my bet is on either a cementing tool, casing hanger, or drill collar, particularly the collar. Those things are pretty dang stout. the o.d is just a bit shy of the i.d. of the casing and have the bore of the drill pipe. They are often made of things like tungsten for the weight, the o.d. is then carbourized for wear resistance.

that definitely makes more sense. ga

Getting a new start, up from the concrete containment boxes,

what is your prognosis of the scenario for the new riser material and diameter (they will use)?

Are they going to use deep pumping techniques or a much more big diameter pipes to let the oil float up?

If the take doesn't follow the output, the oil will spill out of the box from below, no?

Or lift the box?

Or do you think they have a plan B to drop a stopper in the chamber to bury the pipe?

Is this an option?

What is the actual pressure of the oil in reference to the 1500m depth?

The diameter of the pipe in the seabed: are dimensions known of that?

The outlet pipe will probably be pretty large diameter Coflexip type hose/pipe connected to one or more ESP's to increase the flow rate flowing into a buoy for offloading onto a barge not unlike an FPSO configuration. They'll probably steal one (or more) from one of their west africa jobs that haven't been installed yet and replace it later. now that is pure speculation on my part but it seems reasonable.

the casing is 16" o.d., the BOP is 18-3/4" i.d., the Riser is 21" o.d.

the pressure of the escaping oil is somewhere in the neighborhood of 3500 psi or so. The hydrostatic pressure at depth is 150 bar (I've read, I haven't put pencil to paper to verify that number, I'm lazy.) so total reservoir pressure at the wellhead is about 5700 PSIA

Thank you. makes most sense to me too. I only find 1500 meter a very long distance, 1. To coop with and 2. to keep it quasi upright floating. Or do you think that the oil weight difference makes it stand? O course they will have to make a buoy type support, probably GPS positioned. I remember a test on the beach of the North Sea and that was only 100 meter hose. (2.5 inch as wire conduit)

I get a bit perturbed when I read of such events being blamed on "Corporate Greed". First of all, Corporations do not have personalities. Most day to day operating decisions are made at the middle management level, with upper management focusing on strategy, not operations (there are, of course, some exceptions to this, but generally not at the size of a BP). Next, let us consider who the actual "owners" of BP are. While the Queen may own a sizable chunk, and the British Government may own a sizable chunk, there are also sizable chunks owned by mutual funds, pension funds, and individual stock holders that mostly have very little to say about how the company is run. Upper management is most likely not going to be interested in taking chances that could bring the corporation down (unless, of course, we are talking about financial houses, but that is a whole different story).

If you want to see true Greed in action, watch the vultures that are circling the wounded animal. Watch the people angling for a way to get a piece of the litigation pie (sorry, folks, about 80% of all awards are going to the lawyers, not the victims). There is a good chance that this incident could ultimately destroy BP- but let us think for a moment who ultimately pays for this. The employees, including all level of management, will suffer somewhat, since they will go through a period of unemployment, but they will eventually find re-employment with whoever winds up buying what's left of BP. The pension funds and the mutual funds and the banking houses are not going to absorb the hit- they are going to pass it on to the pensioners and other investors who have tied up their dreams for an easy future in their investments. It is ultimately the little man that pays.

And it is not only the investors that get burned. The price of oil will likely increase significantly as a result of this accident- not only the cost of clean-up and the cost of litigation, but the added cost of additional regulation and government interference- we all pay at the pump for this.

And where does the greed lie? Not with the corporation- with the vultures circling the corpse, looking for a piece of something they did not earn...

GA

Cwarner, generally I agree with you, but there is such a thing as corporate inertia, and BP, which used to be a governmental entity, has more inertia than most mountains. That inertia infects every decision made on every corporate level. the capability for independent thought is pounded out of every person that doesn't bail for greener pastures. nothing ever changes, and things are done the same way they always are, it doesn't matter if the parameters have changed or the safety rules are different now, nothing changes because nobody has been empowered to make any decisions. BP has had a large number of very big safety and environmental screwups over the past decade or so and the lessons don't seem to be sinking in (because they can't).

Do I want them to go under? No, they are a major player in the GoM and a lot of jobs depend on them, but they are dangerous and hard to work with because of that inertia.

Inertia is another thing all together. All large organizations develop inertia, whether they be corporations, governments, churches, NGO relief agencies or whatever. It has to do with levels of complexity. The more complex a system, the harder it is to turn. In fact, I recently read a study suggesting that the reason most civilizations have failed in the past was because they reached some limit of complexity that prevented appropriate, timely response to some unexpected crisis- made a lot of sense to me, and I have to look up that reference for another thread, another day.

The attack on independent thought begins with our earliest education. Schools do not produce scholars- they produce "good citizens".

Imagine my chagrin when I heard the rationale for bailing out AIG was because they were "too big to fail". If they are too big to fail, they are too big to exist, in my mind. Break them up into smaller units that aren't so complex they will bring down the whole industry...

I first heard on the 5 pm news yesterday that there was more than one leak at the ocean floor in the vicinity of the Gulf well head. To corroborate this I found this on the internet. Is the riser pipe still attached to the well head? If it is of no use, why not shear it off? At least it would stop the need for more boxes over the well head and another 1300 feet away. Is there a problem with leaking pipe near the top of the well head at the ocean floor but below the ocean floor? I probably should direct this to Rorscharch. Just curious!

It is my understanding from reports I've read that the riser WAS still connected and they have since sawed it off near the BOP in preparations for trying to connect a new BOP to it. but that still accounts for two of the leaks because oil is flowing from both the riser and the casing. they are planning to place the BOP on the casing to close that off but that MAY have the effect of intensifying the leak from the riser annulus. I think they plan on P&A'g the casing first, then cutting it back and dealing with the riser. There was a third leak from the riser but once it is cut loose it will only be the trapped volume in the riser (which is not a small amount however.)

I keep saying it "Tabula rasa"!!!!

That is what Russian Specialists say too. They did it before with a small nuke. But they had more problems after. I believe they should try it, but only after this next experiment. Probably because it is just around the corner. You are far away.

fairly decent summary.

at

I'm completely frustrated here

this editor resized all the pics except the 1st 2 into thumbnails

I have a place to park the power point

but have been warned not to link to it

as it's considered diverting traffic

Thanks for posting Garth. If you need the photographs big, I can mail these on request. I thought this would fit here as info. D