Gas Hydraulic Turbine

1- are you sure about the 10.000 bar ? As you write it means that the system works with 10^4 bar (if the point is a thousand separator). Or do you mean only 10^1 bar with 3 decimal zeros behind ?

I am not very bright, but what in heaven's name does this sentence mean?

"Carbon Dioxide in closed loop of gas Hydraulic Turbine, Boiler, Turbine, Cooler, Boiler at plus 100 degrees Celsius develops 10,000 bar of Co2/gas thrust or 20,000 megawatts."

Hello The Professor. Closed loop is like having a pipe bend in a circle to join back on itself. gas Hydraulic means using gas force to propel a hydraulic (hydro) turbine. Turbine, cooler, boiler means gas coming out of the the turbine into cooling and from cooling back into the boiler. 100 degrees Celsius is a different means of measuring temperature alongside feiranhight. 10,000 bar is 10,000 multilied by 14.2 pounds per square inch. Co2 gas is the gassious form of Co2 liquid or Dry Ice. Thrust is pressure or push. 20,000 megawatts is a measurment of electricity, light bulbs have wattage printed on them, 1000 watts is a kilowatt, 1000 kilowatts is a megawatt, 20,000 megawatts is 1 megawatt multiplied by 20,000.

Cheers Peter

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you're using the phase change between solid and gaseous CO₂ as an energy source. Basically you're using the huge volumetric expansion of sublimating solid CO₂ to drive the turbine, correct? If this is indeed the case, then 3 questions come to mind here.

1. What is your energy output for this system?
2. How much energy do you need to input into this system to cause the solid CO₂ to sublimate at a rate fast enough to drive the turbine at a useful speed?
3. How much energy do you need to input into this system to solidify and recover the spent CO₂ gas? Since it's a closed-loop system, there must be some way to do this, correct?

Best regards,

Lord Vader out.

Lord Vader, I have been zapped.

1. Energy output is 720 watts for every litre of turbine flow at 9 bar pressure, using a 80% efficient turbine.

2. Energy input calculous unknown. Leave that to ones who know. Heat comes from cooler direct to boiler in full recycle of heat. extra heat may be inputted.

Dry Ice flashes off at -40* Celsius. Heat input needs be calculated to flow rate.

Flow is usualy cool liquid under high pressure from hot Co2 itself once cool Co2 not Dry Ice.

Bigger surface ambient heat collector has been our means to increase heat volume needed to increase turbine rotation or obtain greater pressure without increase in rotation.

3. No idea given the heated Co2 is used to cool the Co2, though usualy to low temperature usualy Co2 liquid not dry ice.

Correct dry ice formation occurs in the cooler using the "Eienstein" principal. This is where gas is heated to pressure force itself through an orifice into an expansion chamber.

Cheers Peter

Glad to be of assistance. As you probably know, I'm an environmental engineer, not a mechanical engineer so I can't help you with your calculations. What I can help you with aside from critical commentary to help you improve your design as above are with innovative ideas.

You can make this truly renewable low-cost energy by harnessing the heat energy of the sun or by recovering waste heat energy from somewhere to sublimate your dry ice. Since you need to regulate your heat energy input, a heat exchange system would be best since you can regulate your heat energy input by regulating the flow of your heat exchange medium.

To re-solidify and recover your dry ice, I would suggest the use of a thermoacoustic heat pump so that you can both recover waste heat and utilize the heat energy of the sun instead of requiring electricity to recover your dry ice. Once you have figured out a way to put these all together, you will get what you obviously want: a low cost renewable method to generate electricity.

DVader1000,

Enviromental engineer, you beauty. Passed through on way here.

No electricity required fully self susstaining at any temperature above minus 20 degrees Celsius.

Gas hydraulic complete. Ambient heating is collected by reverse ambient cooling radiator.

Cooling is cryogenic. Based on heat pump "Einstein" refrigeration.

Body heat is a constant! Love to know bum heat transfer time to degree C, 1 litre Co2 gas.

1. litre per second temperature cline has us generating electricity.

Cheers Peter

Hello DVader1000,

Following enviromental engineer. South African Night Crawler worm, dry land conversion unit human waste, Methane best soil etc.

Methane gas for such energy as required.

Biggest problem with gas hydraulic be the seals. Lower molecular size saw us seal with leather sleeve against Co2. Standard process of steam generation is cheaper, different seals and lower heat need when using Iso Butane see NZ Geothermal.

Cheers Peter

Hello DVader1000:

I respect your approach in submissions to this site.

Your being an engineer which I am not, may be able to help with constant controlled green heat. I have much experience in producing green heat, however after that I can apply it quite well in a innovative manner, but that where its stops apart from gathering data.

Should you have a share on heating 1 litre CO2 per second heating I be most appreciative.

Various web sites have CO2 phase graphs and you will notice the pressure is on x curve, so as long as base heat is above 30*C little heat cline is required to reach the magical 9 bar increase.

Cheers Peter

Thank you, my lack of understanding is not around the units, but "gas Hydraulic " is a contradiction in terms, are you referring to an expander or a hydraulic power recovery turbine and then into an expader or what? Are you also stating that you are putting 10,000 bar of CO² (liquid and or gas) at 100 ^oC through this thing and producing 20,000 MW?

Professor,

No not a contaradiction in terms but the combination of gas and hydraulics. Gas as in Co2 and hydraulic as in hydro turbine.

Hot gas is used to drive a hydro turbine, and hot gas is cooled by entery into an expander.

Only cool liquid Co2 goes through the hydro turbine. +100*C Co2 provides the liquid drive force, and a turbine generator of same size as Tarong 350 megawatts shall produce 20,000 megawatts for the same amount of heat input.

Cheers Peter

My last comments on this - hydraulic turbines just do not run well on gas, so I still believe there is a contradition - hydro=liquid _{or a health spa}. a : water <hydrous> <hydroelectric> b : liquid <hydrokinetic>

Just read your post properly where you do state that only liquid goes through the turbine.

The most powerful gas turbine that I know of is the Siemens GT5 at around 370 MW.

A 20,000 MW machine -? or are you talking of a couple of hundred smaller machines?

"Just read your post properly where you do state that only liquid goes through the turbine.

Co2 turbine boiler has the gas pressure forcing out he liquid to hydraulic turbine which allows the liquid to return to boiler in constant procession of liquid in liquid out where steam has liquid in steam out.

No only one the same size as the steam turbine at Tarong.

20,000 MW on a single shaft - the mind boggles. Any idea what the shaft diamenter would need to be?

Kaisan

When I went into shaft, two men in black showed up Commonwealth.

Having a list of the worlds arsenal for sale wasnt much help.

Super heated steam is classified but known to be fully gas.

Turbine, steam, ships, Ark Royal, interesting.

Royal Navy tut tut makes me classified no no.

Space shuttle doesnt use a shaft but mixing hydrogen with oxygen then flowing it through burning plastic explosive is the steam trail.

Tubular shaft load shares as the turbine runner be rotor and the casing stator.

I suspect there be a shaft with shear stresses I not be privy to and so enforced by commonwealth police.

Looking through only served to find that stated.

The aresnel of democracy contains much with shaft though unknown to Civilians.

Super heated steam is like wise classified as to are it to pressure phase graph.

However The British Auecraft carrier Ark Royal has a shaft and turbine spinning it along at 50mph. Wonder what the shear stress of that shaft is.

Turning the turbine into an alternator is not that difficult in the space age.

Are "facts" of absolutely no importance to you? I am not able to understand the strange mixture of pseudo science and mixed units that you describe.

However, just to get things into perspective, the specification for the Ark Royal (the latest one of 5 such named ships of the RN) call for a top speed of 28 knots. (She actually cracked over 30 knots on sea trials).

Now with the way that you play easy with units, you may be able to get that to equal 50 mph, but unfortunately it is equal to 52 km/ hour or 32 mph.

This is achieved by 4 RR Olympus TMB3 GAS turbines driving two shafts with a total output power of 112 000 shp (Shaft Horse Power) or around 41 MW per shaft.

A far cry from the outrageous 20,000 MW on a single shaft about which you speak.

Hello Kaisan.

Thank you for the correction 57K not 50 mph.

3 Parson geared turbine in fact, not 4 RR Olympus TMB3 gas turbines.

3 shafts in fact, not 2.

6 Admiralty 3 drum boilers providing super heated steam.

112,000 Shp per turbine is correct.

A far cry from the 20,000 megawatt on the single shaft your deceit places as being comment of mine.

Now the way you play at having some knowledge may come to fruition.

Again - get your facts straight. The specifications that I quoted are correct for the presently commisoned Royal Navy vessel the Ark Royal. (I did say latest vessel of that name).

What you quote is for a vessel called the Ark Royal built and commissioned in the 1930's and sunk in 1941._{Enough for now} - _{No more pi**ing contest from me.}

Hello Kaisan:

Thanks for the update.

Love the fine print, I am a red head from out of the bush. Suptle as a shark attack.

Cheers Peter

Subtle

?

Supple

?

Hello 34point5

Yes. sub·tle/ˈsətl/Adjective

1. (esp. of a change or distinction) So delicate or precise as to be difficult to analyze or;

Born in the bush and still have black humor.

Cheers Peter

Thank you for not answering my question. It is most polite.

Since I wanted to understand your cycle and because your explanations are not clear enough I had a look at the site where the plant you mention shows what it is what it does aso.

I had a very serious look BUT DID NOT FIND any of your presentations in their.

So apparently it is not some system which works at the plant but what you imagine to be a solution for a plant.

There are several aspects your presentation does not clarify it would be better if you would have a new look and try to make more understandable to simple persons which do not have so bright ideas.

What once was a government web site of information be no more. Coal fired Toshiba 350 megawatt turbine.

Think of it in steam terms, the boiler water turns to steam and incoming water forces steam out, keeping the water level level. Water comes in steam goes out.

Gas hydraulics water comes in water goes out and a constant steam pressure is maintaned in the boiler.

Even more efficient when you use liquid Co2 in place of H2O.

I have the bad feeling that you either do not read what was written before you answer or that you are in a dream and do not get the different points.

I am now sure that what you claim to be working is only an idea you cannot explain the right way and you do not master physically since when it comes to serious aspects you take the tangent.

It started as an interesting subject and finishes as a stupid non discussion.

We all have our problems, yours is not one of mine.

Arrogance never pays

Nick,

Went back over site, explaination you sort, got mixed into reply to The Professor. "10,000 bar is 10,000 multiplied by 14.2 pounds per square inch.

Sorry about that.

Cheers Peter

Hello nick name,

Tarong Power Station web site data has been permantly removed.

Tarong Power is owned by Qld Government.

Tarong Power Station web site now has Political comment in place of data.

Cheers Peter

Realy enjoy the brains that come on this web site, have met University professors, Industrial engineers and Chemists. Pity though the dregs from face book have come across to express their lack of penis size .

Your Highness "DaS Energy" the 1st Genius and Benefactor of all World!

You are one of those who cannot accept a negative comment.

It is a usual behaviour of uncultivated people who claim their value because they met high degree persons.

Being in touch with high value people does not give YOU any more value. Value is a personal propriety and does not increase or decrease by simple social contact!

Since you had so valuable contacts why come to a simple engineering chat site ? We are not at your high level which is a REVOLUTION of science, we at CR4 deal with NORMAL science. Keep discussing with your high level contacts and let us be as we are without your lights.

As many others you try to insult when you do not get the positive appreciation you think you deserve. You are not the 1st and unfortunately will not be the last to react this way.

I WOULD SUGGEST WE LET THIS GENIUS BROIL HIS IDEAS IN HIS OWN BREW AND NOT MAKE ANY MORE ATTEMPT TO HELP HIM UNDERSTAND HIS STUPIDITY NEITHER FOR THIS DISCUSSION NOR FOR THE FUTURE SINCE EVERY TIME WE COULD EXPECT SAME REACTIONS.

Hey Nick - you seem to be going CAPS LOCK on the derision/abuse you kicked off, and in reply to a post on what?

What Would TC Smith think?

Is TC = tensioned controlled ?

And "bolshoe spasibo" for the other comments.

I think that there are border lines one has not to cross, that is all. Either we are civilised persons or not (some body used the term "neculturny").

When the border lines are crossed I ALLWAYS react and without gloves.

If you cant take it dont hand it out. Ask dont tell. There is nothing else like it in the world. Those mentioned known of it by its long notice by them open technology development, updated CR4.

Those mentioned are the author of published data so relied upon.

My thanks to them and others.

DaS Rheingold winds up just where it started 19 hours ago...

--Anna Russell

To appeal to such persons as yourself.

Are you saying that the plant you are describing is actually operating?

Hello Pionic,

Actualy operating, though cooler differs to that in posting. Never operated to pressure 10,000 bar. Twenty bar was registering before aluminium casing blew out. Transfer turbine pump.

Prior testing was done using galve pipe and h2o without pressure guage. Can replicate fire intensity at point of explosion. Michelle turbine.

Cheers Peter

So is that yes or is it no?

It is difficult to believe that this thread is being promoted by anything other than a random technical word generator.

Can the forum have some science to think about on this thread, please?

If all else fails, read the instructions.

So there is a manual for this contraption, then? Oh, good. What make and model is it? Their technical helpline is about to receive some calls.

Standard concept of a gas turbine generator is>

Water is placed into a boiler where it is heated into high pressure gas.

This high pressure gas exits the boiler and passes into, and then out of a gas turbine.

The gas having lost its pressure in driving the turbine around is still very hot and passes into a cooler where it is cooled back down to water.

The water pooling in the bottom of the cooler is then pumped back into the boiler for repeat process.

Parts in use are a Water Pump, Boiler, Turbine and Cooler.

In gas hydraulic system > Water is placed into a boiler where it is heated into high pressure gas.

The high pressure gas forming above the water in the boiler forces the remainder water out the bottom of the boiler and into a hydraulic turbine causing it to rotate.

The water exits the turbine at 3 o'clock and at direct 90 degree angle to the turbine shaft.

The water exiting the turbine feeds directly into the boiler where it is flash heated to high pressure gas.

The boiler itself has a thermo cline, that is extremely hot at the top and cool at the bottom. Thereby becoming a boiler/cooler.

This allows high pressure gas to bear down on the cool water that has formed out of the gas travelling down through the boiler/cooler thermo cline.

The turbine vane/cup carrying some of the expanded gas is rotated to the bottom of the turbine. Whilst the remainder gas is trapped in the boiler/cooler providing down pressure on the water pooled in the bottom of the boiler/cooler.

At this point water from the boiler/cooler is attempting to fill the gas filled vane/cup and in doing so converts the gas in the vane/cup into water, or forces it up the relief pipe into cool water.

The consequence of this is the turbine vane/cup accepts a full load of water at full gas pressure. Thus the turbine need be hydraulic not gas.

The rotational conveyance of the water in the vane/cup of the turbine travells round to where it again meets the boiler/cooler.

This process works with any liquid which may be heated to gas and cooled back to liquid. It does so by having only one moving part. It further does so in being a one part system unlike conventional gas turbine systems.

Steam turbine > Water 550* Celsius delivers 175 bar thrust which produce 350 megawatts.

Co2 turbine> Co2 100* Celius delivers 10,000 bar thrust, which at 175 bar per 350 megawatts produces 20,000 megawatts.

For the same heat factor of 550* Celius on water to produce 350 megawatts. Co2 at 550* Celius produces 110,000 megawatts.

Tarong power station burns 240 tonne of coal per hour per 350 megawatts.

At a Carbon tax of $10 per tonne. A savings of $2,390 per 350 megawatt hour is had using Co2.

Cheers Peter

I highly appreciate your self-critical comment!

In fact since you do not contest any of my comments you recognize that I am right all-over.

Thank you for the appreciation.

Your comments exemplify the importance of the use of English in technical communication. Your word-pictures may be crude, but they are recognizable, unlike other contributions. If you learn better English, The "pictures" will be more precise. Good analysis, though you do not need to pretend that you are simple: your ego is showing.

Hi nick name, seems I mostly agree with you.

#4 the "cup", I think, refers to a Pelton wheel. An odd leap application - but it's all quite odd. Perhaps the OP will make it clear in time.

One observation of my own in this category; is 'inventors' should start at the theoretical energy in a kg of carbon, (whist realising 'steaming coal' is not pure carbon), rather than just 'multiplying up' the whole generation process by the whole efficiency of a substituted step.

P.s. Had your last part 'read better', you'd have my GA.

Hello 34point 5,

The cup does not refer to a Pelton wheel. A vane or cup is that part of the turbine runner holding liquid in separation units between the turbine feed and delivery point. It usualy has a measure of quantity to the amount of liquid it holds.

My observation to new inventors remains, Know that which your working with, and seek other ways of obtaining more efficient means of completing that which your working with is usualy put to in obtaining the outcome sort.

Cheers Peter.

<...The water exiting the turbine feeds directly into the boiler where it is flash heated to high pressure gas....>

That's the difficult bit. Having lost some pressure turning the turbine, how does it get back into the boiler against the pressure that is already there?

Does the turbine pump it back in, for instance?

Hello PWSlack

Happy to help. See in drawing the 3 oclock point on the turbine.

The turbine runner in effect is part of the flash heated boiler. The Runner in effect is a rotating boiler seal.

When the turbine vane is opposite the flash heating, all water is heated from the turbine vane and trapped as steam within the boiler.

Please note the angle of 90* off the turbine shaft, at 3 0clock, to boiler is needed to ensure no angle of force is applied to the runner so no back pressure is applied to the forward motion of the runner.

Cheers Peter

Rot.

I am a little confused. Just wondering what the relevance is to Tarong PS in Queensland.

I had a little involvement with commissioning of the first boiler/turbine units there. It is a conventional 350MW coal-fired power plant, pulverised fuel, natural circulation, 540/540 deg C reheat boiler. One public document for a snapshot if it helps;

http://www.tarongenergy.com.au/Portals/0/docs/factSheets/Factsheet%20-%20Tarong%20Power%20Station%20-%2023%20September%202008.pdf

Perhaps the greatest relevance is that Tarong is located near the town of Kingaroy, which is the largest peanut-growing region in Australia.

I wonder if that "Furnace gas temperature: 1470^oC" has come down a bit over NO issues, since 1986?

_{(terrible lot of coal and water for 1400MW. I also wonder when Gov. will do the sums and we see the end of this wasting of resources)}

Hello 34.5

The furnace temperature of 1400 Celsius remains and delivers 550 Celsius Steam temperature.

However some work was done to cut back on water loss which was reduced by 200 litres per hour.

Cheers Peter

_{Hello 34point5. (terrible lot of coal and water for 1400MW. I also wonder when Gov. will do the sums and we see the end of this wasting of resources)}

_{DaS Energy has for some years has fought the Qld Government to allow gas hydraulic generated electricity to the transmission grid but remains refused by Qld Premier Bligh.}

_{DaS Energy fought long and hard to be allowed access to Urbane methane to built a generation unit to supply Tugan Desalination with green power and boost jobs on the Gold Coast Premier Bligh said no.}

_{DaS Energy fought long and hard for private hydro generated electricity be allowed onto the transmission line Premier Bligh said no.}

_{Qld Government owns both Tarong power station and the Coal mine supplying it.}

_{Gas hydraudrilic power generation, Hydro power generation, and Methane fuelled electicity generation generate electricity in competetion to Tarong power station.}

_{It may be a case of Premier Bligh knowing the cost to Coal if Open Technology having no need for Coal, and which produces half price electricity plus is Carbon free is allowed to come on line.}

_{Cheers Peter}

Hello Ausie Bob.

Thank you for finding the old web printnout much appreciated.

I live in Queensland so Tarong became my major research for comparison. I spent some two years researching all I can.

The web site I quote Government has removed as DaS Energy is making waves against Coal base electricity and refer to the Governments 2,000 tonne of Carbon emission per hour plus 2,160,000 litres of drinking water per hour wasted to attmosphere.

We also are still locked on with Anna in a huge dog fight to allow half price Carbon free electricity onto the grid to compete with her Power Station.

Many thanks again.

Cheers Peter

Hello AussieBob

An add on to my last comment. Tarong was the basis in establishing Co2 drive.

One can copy the Tarong layout however the open loop needs be closed to acheive the 74 bar constant to keep the CO2 liquid at under 32* Celsius. Co2 will not convert to liquid no matter the pressure if temperature above 32* Celsius.

Our work to gas hydraulic is to reduce the size of the system to one that carried by one person.

The greatest problem we encountred was how to seal the turbine shaft to stop Co2 leaking out.

Cheers Peter

Although some comments were quite aggressive with respect to my assumptions I am correct enough to consider points of view different of mine and check if I was or not right and in the case that NO is the result to make the necessary. Before making any assumptions on the present thread I did not read the other posters and comments from DaS. Now I did it and here are some affirmations he made with my comments in brackets. I appologize if my english is not good enough as it was stated but I shall try to make it better but I cannot do it out of a sudden it will take some time. Thread:Hydro Turbine as Combustion Engine. "When a gas force (combustion) occurs against a confined pool (pipe) of water, the water fully obtains the same force as the gas." "The ball now floating on a pool of gas cannot be sustained and drops allowing the combustion gasses to escape into the larger of two sealed tanks."( The ball finds itself between 3 forces: its weight, the Archimedean force and the pressure force. The first acts up-down and the others down-up. The Archimedean force depends on the specific mass of the fluid, if this is a liquid as water it is bigger if it is air it is a lot less but the system works ONLY if this force is IMPORTANT with respect to the other 2 if pressure is very big then it cannot influence any more). Thread: Market wanted, fueless power generation. (Power is not generated but transformed from one form to the other. If it is "fueless" then another power source as "fuel" must be available since power does not come from nothing) "In hydro power generation pressure may be replaced with volume".(Very correct since power is the product of the 2) "The power generation I speak of is fueless in the sense that it operates at air temperature, by air temperature providing the needed heat to the Co2."(In a thermal machine power can be generated ONLY if there is some where a temperature difference if the system works ONLY with air temperature then it is no difference and there is no power output). Thread:Free DaS "Turbine/generator of ten litres spinning at 3,000 revolutions per minute, 360 Kw. +10c air temperature."(Where does the figure come out ?) "Fossil technology is harming our Earth." "Boiling water and cooking the Planet is not the way to go. 550 degrees Celsius obtains 175 bar Steam gas pressure. 550 degrees Celsius obtains 61,875 bar Co2 gas pressure. 353 times less Coal and less Carbon pollution, not wanted by some." (There is NO relations between temperature and pressure and between pressure alone and power so that the reduction of coal need based ONLY on pressure is not valid). "Co2 heated by Methane gas buries Coal."(So that it is a need for a heat source and this is NOT for free as claimed in a previous poster). "Plus rids our climate of both Carbon and the three times more harmfull Methane."(Methane generates as well CO2 when burned and methane is also a fossil stuff). Thread: New Engine Design "Not bad for a back yard father and son team." "Process is this R774 is cool liquid at 74 barg and 31.1* Celsius, at 120* Celsius it is 10,000 barg hot gas. Leaving a working pressure of 9,926 barg. Divided by 9 and mutliplied by 720 watts is 794Kw."(As in previous posters the computation of power output does not consider power input but only pressure) "Problem is Coal fired Steam turbine is not up to a Kilowatt at 120*C temperature."(?). "Mind you the Carbon reduction is enormous using R774."(Why? Does the other heat source need less input power for same output). "Fossil fuel fired. One Steam turbine power station Qld Au. 240 tonne Carbon per hour for 350 megawatts. R774 turbine 930 kilos Carbon per hour for 350 megawatts." (Which means that the efficiency of the new system is ONLY 258 times better, if the mentioned power station has an overall efficiency of 30% the new system offers an efficiency of 77.4 thus > 1!!!!). "Green fuel has less energy than fossil fuel " (Correct but then with less fuel mass and a lower energy input how can one obtain an over 1 efficiency ?) "Have absolutely no idea of its efficiency based on the Carnot cycle." "Have you heard of a air relief valve in a water pipeline. Water pressure will keep the valve shut but air at the same pressure wont. It's a bit of a balancing trick but it works."(See above remark). "So true, but I have an excuse I built it without any engineering degree. I have to look up half the names engineers use. Hoping maybe the learned will tell me all those engineering things people ask about." "I am a bit old fashioned my goal was to make it work not understand all the intricacies that make it work, there are professional people for that. Being a bushy all that mattered was it worked not the intricacies of how it worked apart from a basic concept." "I go and do things rather than looking in a book to see if I can, that way I am not put off before I begin." "After I got the DaS Valve going I had to look things up to assertain what I have actualy done."(It is the old method of "cut and try" which does NOT always work and even if it works it is very expensive in time and money. A simple static equation for the balance would have allowed a direct development and fixed the limits of feasibility, it takes about half an hour to do it all included). "If you look at the gas fridge you see there is a huge constant pressure build up at its choke point. Which purpose is to lower the pressure on the other side, so I thought why not use a turbine to strip off the pressure rather than a choke point wasting energy."(Thus the turbine will generate (efficiency 0.8) power from the compressor introduced power to rise the pressure= output is the product of input power at compressor shaft x compressor efficiency x turbine efficiency = << input power so that not interesting at all). "The DaS Valve is a self filling boiler. R774 at 31.1* degrees Celsius and 74 barg pressure is liquid. Heated above 31.1*C R774 is gas, when the gas is vented out the exhaust valve it goes to cooling reducing its temperature back to 31.1* Celsius and 74 barg. The liquid then goes back into the DaS Valve. Following the same heating and cooling process of the Steam tur-bine." (The turbine work (?) at NO pressure difference, the how does it work?) Thread: Gas Hydraulic Turbine "Energy input calculous unknown. Leave that to ones who know. Heat comes from cooler direct to boiler in full recycle of heat. extra heat may be inputted. Correct dry ice formation occurs in the cooler using the "Eienstein" principal. This is where gas is heated to pressure force itself through an orifice into an expansion chamber." " ... and a turbine generator of same size as Tarong 350 megawatts shall produce 20,000 mega-watts for the same amount of heat input." (efficiencies ratio = 57.1!) "No electricity required fully self susstaining at any temperature above minus 20 degrees Celsius." "Ambient heating is collected by reverse ambient cooling radiator." "Cooling is cryogenic. Based on heat pump "Einstein" refrigeration." "Super heated steam is likewise classified as to are it to pressure phase graph." I was accused that I made the assumption DaS is not an engineer. In fact he claims it and is proud of it, so that I was not wrong in my assumptions. I was accused that it was insulting to recommend a further learning. As I see he is not interested and I noticed that a very active member claimed not to be an engineer but that he took classes in different directions to put a theoretical basis to his broad experience. According to the comments made it would have been a self insult to recognize that he needed some more knowledge. On my opinion it is a mark of value to do such an effort and a wish to be better than one is. I always said -and I think so not only say - that our profession is one where every body has to learn all his life since if not keeping abreast one falls behind. I recognize I should have formulate in more "soft" way using more the words as "assumption", hypothesis aso. If one looks at the total collection of citations it is clear that my comment was NOT wrong. May be I have an "ego" as stressed but I have a base for it and every time I can I help even those who ask questions for their home work not giving solutions but hints how to find solutions. I further think that CR4 is victim of its success and that can be noticed in the number of participants related to type of threads. It is interesting to notice that several high level participants have left. I have to change my comment on automatic translation, in other threads the language is a lot better, I think the stress was too important and lead to this special formulation since it was difficult if not impossible to answer the questions which were according to what DaS writes for him not easy to understand.

Hello nick name.

I am one of those who dont respond to name calling, and appreciate your not doing so. The comments you refer in your first part to are in regard to the DaS Valve.

If you fill a pipe with water and put a pressure gauage at end then insert gas pressure into the top of the pipe a gas pocked will form. The pressure at the bottom of the pipe will register the same as the top of the pipe. Reason the water is at same pressure as the gas.

"(Why? Does the other heat source need less input power for same output). Less heat input for same power output> is because Co2 provides greater force to heat than H2O.

"There is NO relations between temperature and pressure" Phase graphs are the link between temperature and pressure. They show what temperature is needed to acheive a given pressure. Google search Steam phase graph and it will tell at what pressure the steam will be at and at what temperature.

Wrong. "Co2 heated by Methane gas buries Coal."(So that it is a need for a heat source and this is NOT for free as claimed in a previous poster)" Methane, Coal, Diesel, Petrol, Alcohol etc can be used to supply heat, no fuel requires the use of ambient heat.

When you get on this site and attach my name to your deceit, you can go back to phapping yourself in front of little children perhaps they will cheer you, however you give me the squirts and I shant go further with you.

May be you will understand that a bit of knowledge is required to develop ideas related to power generation. It is a pity since you invest a lot of effort and time to fight with the wind mills. What is not clear to you is the notion of energy and power and how they relate to flow, pressure and temperature. This knowledge is known under thermodynamics if you would make the slightest effort to understand some of the notions you would either make a further progress or as you write stop from the start.

Any way I wish you good luck and if you will succeed I am ready to accept that you made a revolutionary system with an efficiency >>1 and that I am wrong. It is not a shame to recognize such a situation.

I shall not make any more comment with respect to your developments I am sincerely sorry that I did not read first the previous threads and posters since I would have done it I would NOT induce myself in the discussion they showed already the final reaction coming from you.

Again GOOD LUCK in your efforts.

I am not sure if it has been mentioned yet but Das is most likely thinking of this kind of system: http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2010-08/cryogen-tanks-could-help-power-plants-meet-peak-energy-demand

It does not create or generate energy it merely stores and releases it when needed.

He does not understand the actual use.

Live in constant fear that another has done the same.