Electric Generator Using A Flywheel

C'mon. This joke is getting old. Take it over to Yahoo answers.

Hilarious. Another one for the Museum of Unworkable Devices?

Where to begin???

You cannot get more energy out of anything than the energy you put in.

Every time that you transform one form of energy into another, you will always lose some energy in the transformation.

So starting with electrical energy, converting this to stored rotational kinetic energy and then back to a different electrical energy will never be as efficient as remaining in electrical energy.

Having said this, there are reasons to do exactly what you are saying, specifically in the realm of large uninterrupted power sources where the flywheel drives some equipment for a time after primary power has been lost.

But from a purely theoretical basis, comparing an AC or DC output generator for more energy out will not make a difference. So the question now hinges on what is the load(s) you are driving. If it is an all 48VDC telecom network then a DC generator will likely be more efficient.

Ya but what about "a flywheel which rotates in a vacuum atmosphere and levitates", that has to not only compensate for the loss but increase output energy also, RIGHT??????

_{sorry, couldn't help myself. I will confine myself to the corner for a time out now}

_{<...sorry, couldn't help myself. I will confine myself to the corner for a time out now...>}

Try switching to decaf.

Have a look at this motor and you might think that the idea of the flywheel is not that crazy

http://www.prweb.com/releases/high-power-density/electric-motor/prweb2870024.htm

7HP at 8400 RPM!

+ levitation of the flywheel + vacuum

Where does the flywheel get its surplus power ? From the vacuum ? From its rotation? The motor is a modern application of 2 known principles: the special arrangement of the PM for the field and the flat wound rotor which has due to its small thickness a much lower temperature resistance to the ambient air. More then that the big surface and the low gap allows a good transfer to the stator thus allowing high currents. Please consider the fact that the power is obtained by the rotational speed not via the torque. This means that the same motor at usual 3000 or 3600 RPM will deliver for same current a power proportional to the ratio of the RPM. I hope we do not start again a discussion about over unity systems !

Yeah, that's an interesting motor. I'll bet you that it is based and researched from the mechanical flywheel storage devices that exist today.

Forget that.

This is what you need. The LynDoor™ SuperStealth 1000® light switch. Retail price:$643.58USD. You'll get your investment back in 6 days, or your money cheerfully refunded.

Here's how it works. When it's dark outside and you turn the lights on everything functions normally. Then, during the day you set the switch to "reverse polarity" and the sunlight coming into the bulbs goes back into the power grid and your meter runs backwards all day long. I even have a group of lights out in the yard where they pick up even more energy.

The power company sends me a check each month.

There is no truth in the rumour that Stinky Pete is running an internet sales outlet flogging these things, then? The KrisDel^TM ones certainly don't work and it would be good to find another supplier....

Wait a minute everybody, the OP did not state the purpose for this very well. It does seem like an attempt at over-unity. However, the OP has not mentioned over-unity at all. Our over sensitive, over-unity nerves have been tweaked by ourselves on this thread. Floating through magnetic bearing high energy density flywheels spinning in a vacuum have been used for a long time to store energy for rapid energy dumps and power conditioning.

I'm with you, I would like to know more about his intended use before condemning his question to the X files

I think this statement disqualifies it, or at least indicates the lack of understanding on the part of the OP.

"The purspose of course is increasing the power output."

It might smooth the power output, but it won't increase it.

I disagree and I've been very careful in my use of terms to imply how a mechanical storage of energy might have a desire for a higher amount of power than the capability of the incoming power. Inertia storage systems have been used for years to provide brief enormous bursts of power. Naturally the duty cycle must reflect the correct energy and power characteristics to not violate energy conservation. Remember it is energy that must be conserved, not power. This is an engineering blog, we must recognize and correct everyone who confuses these terms.

That energy has to come from somewhere. So my reference to smoothing was precisely that. The only way I see this working is if the flywheel supplies energy to the generator when the incoming energy isn't sufficient to supply the power demands of the generator.

You are right. I used the wrong term in my reply.

I am with you.

Depending on the nature of the load, that flywheel can contribute to a more equally spread distribution when the load is very pulsating. An example: I lived in a (electric- wise) rural area and needed a 10 HP piston compressor to run.

Especially when the pressure in the vessel reached the maximum, all the TL lights of the street started to flicker and the TV- sets of the whole neighborhood had instable image heights.

A flywheel made this past tense. An analysis of the situation will indicate what is the benefit too.

more information is required to make a sensible comment.

why have you got the rotor in a vacume.

and what is the purpose of the whole thing ? is it to continue generating power when power to dc motor fails ?

you could use a dynamotor which is a motor until power is removed then ist a generator you could connect this to a flywheel.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=combined+alternator+and+dc+motor&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-gb:IE-SearchBox&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GZEU_en&redir_esc=&ei=1Pp_TMCtFZWSjAe6ndxt

the others on this site are refering to the below links i think.

http://cr4.globalspec.com/search/sitesearch?do=show&sort=textmatchrank&srch=over%20unity&order=asc

Hi there. You told us

"...we have include a flywheel which rotates in a vacuum atmosphere and levitates."

Why stop there? Why not invisible and massless too?

Wait. No mass... that won't work.. Forget that part, just invisible.

I've finally got the answer, tap in to all the energy wasted on this futile topic.

I've got the grail in my hands.

Oh OK it's a pint pot

There are many sad facts in life.

Energy in - Losses = Energy out. That is just one of them.

You just have to love the idea of a flying flywheel.

Has there been any suggestion on where the energy for maintaining the vacuum is coming from or is it hermetically sealed?

More questions than answers...again.

BAB

I have some questions, maybe if you return, you could possibly answer?

is it just the flywheel in the vacuum, or is the MG & flywheel in the vacuum?

What are you *using* to create the levitation of the rotating disc/flywheel?

If your using electromagnets,some of the energy from the generator is being fed back into the magnetic rings used for levitation.

Also, what of the magnetic eddy currents that would be generated within the flywheel, wouldn't this cause magnetic drag on the flywheel at the same time? This type of generator if you tap off the axil and outer edge of the dick is called a "homo-polar generator" I'd assume that most forces used in levitation would cause a drag effect on the disk/shafts as they are rotating.

Also the generation, wouldn't the magnetic forces in the generator cause a lagging/slowing affect of the driven/free-wheeling disc?

So, please enlighten me as to these, I may be able to help you more..

I read again the OP:

" The purpose of course is increasing the power output"

How is this to understand ? It can be understood in several ways:

- is it a difference in the efficiencies of AC and DC generators?

- is the purpose to increase the overall power output with the described solution?

- is this power availability increase only for a limited time ?

We are so accustomed that questions concern "power availability increase" without limit in time that reaction was normal. The OP did not answer a question at the very start of the discussion "where does the excess power come?" If this would have been explained the whole discussion would have had a more productive aspect.

The use of flywheels in generator sets is as old as electric generation itself. Some notable ones, in 1915 NYC Subways commissioned 2 with flywheels of 58 US Ton to take out sudden surges in demand. In the 1930's the UK the Coal Board started to replace steam winders at pitheads by DC drives. The motor generators would have flywheels to reduce the maximum demand on the private and public supplies. In the 50's experiments were carried out with the flywheels running in a reduced atmosphere to reduce "windage" losses.

Now with modern seals near vacuum is possible, low loss bearings, etc.

Nothings ever new just improved by recycling.

what does "OP" mean when refering to question poster ?

Original Poster

A perfect vacuum is not possible. Therefore there will be a drag caused by the inertia of the flywheel. A very small increase in the current used to run the motor will always be there. You are better off without the flywheel. You are just adding more friction to the system. BTW, you have a power conversion device or M/G set.

Sorry but you have some critical misconceptions there. Yes, you cannot have a perfect vacuum but by achieving vacuum levels sufficiently low the friction caused by infrequent collisions with the remaining molecules will induce a friction component significantly less than the magnetic bearings produce. The fly wheel is necessary first because the OP stipulated it in the question, second the spinning mass of the flywheel is where the energy gets stored. If you did not have a flywheel then you cannot store any energy. Without energy storage and releasing happening then the power in must at all times equal the power out.