The Good, The Bad, The Off-Topic?

So the only change you're looking for is a "bad answer" button, since the other two already exist.

Based on how apoplectic people get over having their comments voted off-topic (especially when they do it themselves), I'm sure a "bad answer" option won't cause any additional problems.

There are many "bad" answers (done my fair share), but most of these are harmless and do not bother me, it is the ones that are technically so poor that they could be dangerous that I would like highlighted in some way.

Unfortunately, we do not have a way to highlight dangerous posts. The only workaround we have is to either vote the comment off-topic or to report the comment.

For hopelessly or dangerously bad comments the CR4 site is rather self-regulating in that someone will generally step in and reply to a post stating that an answer is bad or dangerous and explain in detail why.

I personally find it is generally better to post an explanation than have some CR4 member that could know absolutely nothing anonymously press a 'good answer' 'bad answer' button. Remember a member is just a guest that has registered, and any voting system is open to abuse and as such is still a 'rough guide' tool only.

a GA is exactly that and most times needs no additional comment. I have seen in threads there may be posts with multiple ga's that was off topic, humorous...... But maybe only 1 ga that answered the op's question. Is that fair......who cares. The op's question was answered........p911

I agree with Ried wholeheartedly on this one, but with one exception: the Poster cannot be permitted (through the software code) to vote for himself/herself. So, if the poster wants to do so and cheat then a "RED FLAG" is signaled for all to see.

One cannot vote themselves a GA. I believe that users being able to vote themselves off-topic is a good thing because it allows people to skip over unrelated posts (for those who chose to nest off-topic comments). It also shows that the member recognizes that they are going off on a tangent.

But, there are members who have multiple of profiles (why do the moderators allow this?) and use them to vote multiple times, and then along with their brownshirt friends gang up on others and fix the vote.

From your history, I'd rather keep it public [see Tornado's pm], I don't have anything to hide...

your are stuck with your body of work [as are we all]

I look forward to seeing a post from you that bears any relevance to whatever the topic of the thread may be :D

Dear Garthh/ VisiGuest,

Can you try at least to leave the past behind you and move on, I have as has everyone else.

I also look forward to seeing a reply from either one of your personas that actually answers the question asked - I think it is actually quite funny when you actually answer your own posts. Now just out of pure interest, how many times have you actually given yourself a GA ?

Take care.

Garthh & AGuest,

Stop bickering in this thread. You are both being immature about the situation. Just ignore each other! If you have moved on like you say you have, AGuest, you wouldn't keep responding to Garthh.

Every one of Garthh's GAs are ones that he has earned from other people voting him GA. Do not bother yourself to care about what Garthh does with his profiles, that is for him and the moderators to deal with.

This is not up for discussion - stop posting back and forth to each other.

This has been done on at least one serious occasion on a particular member that has since left (many of the CR4 members will remember it), but from my experience it is fairly rare. There are ways around the CR4 systems like any other software or hardware-based system and it is impossible to completely protect CR4 from all threats.

Again a lot of it comes down to self-regulation and reporting problems that occur to CR4 admin, rather than throwing up layer upon layer of security and making the CR4 site difficult to use. A careful balance.

So, Garthh, that justifies your use of at least three profiles?

Perhaps guest, if you explored the reasons that something is the way it is, rather than just jumping on one visible facet, like a dog on a bone, grinding away, a totally different picture might result.

In a way this whole thread is out of that idea that 'gangs' or 'agendas' are voting issues.

The vast majority vote as they see it, and most only vote when they think a vote is merited. Look at the views, add up the votes, do the %

If you do some research, plainly the only time 'flurries of OT voting occur" it's because the post is a "bad answer", or a poster receiving a few OT's "reacts" with OT voting, 'in revenge' for what they perceive as a "gang" on the "hate trail".

AS you may notice, should you research, this thread came from a poster inadvertently OT-ing his own post, calling "persecution" and lashing out.

That produced a "commonality of opinion" on both 'facts' and 'deportment' - NOT a 'gang'.

The nearest to a "gang" on CR4 is "poor readers, and poor researchers, and superficial reactors".

This is anonymous to remove 'knee jerk' on who wrote it, so you will think on content

Some of the vote padding that goes on is both hilarious and pathetic. Anonymous? Right...

I agree, the off topic side discussions and the ability to vote oneself OT is good, they really don't interfere with the gist of the thread. This thread itself is becoming another off topic war of words. Most have other things to do and don't really care about the OT discussions within a thread, I would hope.

As for the post in "Sizing a Water Service for Residential Home," I hope I cleared some of the confusion with this post:

I checked the voting and it seems like you "self-voted" yourself off-topic when you posted the comment which accounts for the automatic 5OT votes. If you really want me to, I can undo your self-vote. There weren't five people who quickly voted you off-topic right after you posted.

I hope this clears some of the confusion.

As for the GA system, this has all been gone over before. No matter what system we have, there will be issues. Revamping the GA system will be a big undertaking (time- and resource-wise) and not everyone will be happy with the results. There will always be an issue with any reward/consequence system. So for now, I believe that the GA system is the most understandable and simple that it can be. It allows members to reward those who post insightful posts and also allows members to off-topic posts that they don't agree with or which are not directly related to the conversation.

I'll add my two cents worth, since I was invited to comment by Ried.

I think the present system is fine. And, since you can't give yourself a GA anyway, I see no reason for any changes.

For the most part the poor moderators are damned no matter what they do, either by the "injured" party or the offended one.

It ain't broke.

Cheers.

I agree with lynlynch. The current system is fine. In fact, I can imagine that the BA button might get abused based on some of the fighting that occurs. On that subject, I really don't understand the squabbles that break out from time to time. I can understand a heated discussion on a topic, but some of this bickering takes on a childish tone.

On that subject, I really don't understand the squabbles that break out from time to time.

more exposure....you will experience it. And yes it can be childish.

I'm inclined to agree with Jaxy and Lynlynch. If you try to make it perfect it just gets over-complicated, with multiple levels of multiple categories and a complex formula to give a fair rating, and no guarantee it would be any better or eliminate improper use. It ain't perfect, but it's OK.

My vote is to leave it as is, and not take it too seriously.

Nice picture, worth a GA.

I agree some people take the GA ot business far too seriously! I raise the point here, only to get it away from an actual request for "engineering" assistance. I don't care a whole lot, except sometimes a bad answer deserves a rating other than "off topic". Like "BAD ANSWER", which hopefully the rater can explain why a comment is so bad!

I doubt that most people who would vote something a bad answer would explain their reasoning and feel that those who believe an answer is bad and explain why wouldn't care to rate a post a 'bad answer.'

Well Ried, I have noticed that a number of members and guests have no compunction whatsoever telling a guest or another member...

'PPPPPPPPPPLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSEEEEEEEEEEEEE', 'What fascist country do you come from?', 'You little snot!', 'Rubbish!', '...you morons should relize this', 'Thanks for nothing. Must make note: American Engineers are assholes'. These are all from members. I am certain there are more.

I think this stands as a mark for a 'Bad Answer'.

I think this stands as a mark for a 'Bad Answer'.

The post being rated off topic and CR4 admin. deleting the content and posting the following message seems to work for very abusive, etc comments.

Vulgar/Rude/Improper Behavior: This post was deleted because it did not adhere to the behavioral policies of the site. Please review Section 14 of the CR4 Site FAQ and the CR4 Rules of Conduct.

I still think the 'off-topic' button works well for off-topic and less abusive responses (which by there very content are self explanatory that they are bad answers).

Of course we always have the naughty stool (if we can every pry it away from lynlynch).

#12 looks like it needs both a "Good Answer" and an "Off Topic" at the same time. What do we do now?

OOPS, I take that back. The fingers (24) are drawn with the curl in the wrong direction. And the indicated direction of motion of the fingers (24) is incorrect. The fingers need to be curled into the back and the direction of motion of the fingers needs to either be up and down or back and forth. Therefore, #12 needs the suggested "Bad Answer" since it has errors that will prevent it from working (into the back could be dangerous with power assist), a "Good Answer" since it is funny and an "Off Topic" since it does not seem to be on topic.

This is getting complicated, but it is probably "on topic" since our topic is "off topic".

Is is possible to be "off topic" if our topic is "off topic"?

So, now we need a BT button as well. As in "bad topic".

This is a waste of time, bye.

We need a "Waste of Time" button now?

I see abuse with BA......heck the button could just as well be marked BM.......for Bowel Movement.....which at times is more appropriate.

Who cares about GA or OT?

Ried is complaining about the sizing of pipe thread going off topic

the thread starter Notsosmartafterall, has not been back for a week

so the thread moved into the wild conjecture/off topic phase of our program.

occasionally during this process, some members become fixated of receiving credit for what they consider to be brilliant contributions & when that doesn't happen for whatever reason, will lay down a rant, trying to justify that perceived injustice...

I don't think your bad answer scheme would turn out as you imagine

I have sent a GA. Appropriate? Don't know, but I think energygod has summed up a lot of the initial concerns/comments concisely. Obviously all the above comments have validity within the minds of the posters. As noted, there are no real perfect systems and this seems to work well enough. Regarding the following:

"As ably stated earlier- IF a poster screws up and says something that is TOTALLY wrong or DANGEROUS, any of us who see it need to comment on THAT post advising what is wrong, why it is wrong, and what is the most correct version of that post"....

I believe that many times the poster states something that is wrong, or potentially dangerous, because he may not know any better. In a sense we all know what we learn, either through texts, schools, peers, or mentors, and if we are initially taught "wrong", we carry that. I find the "correction" posts that follow to be meaningful not only to the forum as a whole, but probably to the initial poster, as this should be part of his learning experience to become a better professional (I didn't state "engineer" purposely as posters likely come from all professions). I would encourage anyone with any comment regarding a post that can prove dangerous to make a reply with reasons as a duty to the poster and the forum.

Well, that's my contribution for now.

Excuse me for starting this tempest in a teapot!

I will go to the corner and pout until teacher says I cana come out if I play nice.

Sincerest apologies, regrets, and it won't happen again (at least until I get another SI).

you have nothing to apologize for. it was a fair thought.

I was on here before the GA system was implemented, and my opinion is that it got more fun when the GA system was created. I can't see much value in attracting more members with a BA button, and I think that dangerous answers or extremely rude answers have the 'report button' which is really a KA button to get rid of it.(Kick Ass)

Chris

I totally agree with Chris- You said what needed to be said. Lots of others said what they think.

That is the "SYSTEM" as it was/is supposed to be.

IMHO the only change to the voting I would make is to have the ability to vote a good answer to an already declared off topic comment. I've seen some comments that are off topic which are still great comments. On the other hand, I suppose if it's off topic it means the comment isn't answering the question so should not qualify as a 'good answer'. So how about a GC (Good Comment) button for off topic comments? Wait, this is getting too confusing.

Let's just leave it as is.

How about a big B for bombastic? Sometimes a page is used for a yes or no reply.

or a separate page for members or guests to duke it out.

Isn't that what this thread has become?

no.....its still quite civil.

P911- You are totally correct that this has been a lively but civil exchange of ideas.

The REALLY weird thing is how posts 11,14,33-37 and 42-44 all got labeled as OT, when that issue is what triggered this post. Did one or more of those posters, including the OP, decide that their comments were OT, or did someone else decide that they did not like what was being said?

This entire posting IS a commentary- not a Q&A posting.

I didn't really look into that, but having experienced it on other threads, it may be due to the sensitivity of the people envolved or are following the threads.....but that just my opinion.

^{Spell check is sure giving me problems as of late. I totally mutalated the word envolved but it past. had to fix it myself.}

when you do this...11,14,33-37 and 42-44 .....since you have to look at them yourself....it would be considerate and appreciated to have the link like this....#51

those posts are all over the board.......or have admin put in a with a "goto post"........hey while their at it, have members be able to look up all posts from a certain charicter.....^{I laying this out because I'm starting a rumor that admin is not busy enough.}

^p911

Totally unfair.

What of the people who have nothing to say on the topic but are compelled to say something?

_{(for those unsure - the above is "satire" - not unlike the roots of this thread)}

I have nothing to say on the matter.......and I'm offended by that.....

I was just cooking dinner and decided to check in on you kids. Try to get along. And I would disagree with the golf analogy.

This is far more like cheating at solitaire.

GAs should pay. Good Thread Starts should pay. I'm proud of my thread starts. I work at them. Had a low period where I thought I might be fading, but thought of another Top Ten question. Got another in mind. Bed Bug fears didn't do so well...

Still I have to admit I personally am afraid of the spread of Bed Bugs and see it as a metaphor for something going terribly wrong with life in the US.

Course I grew up in an era where there were no fences around airports, and airports were these very civilized places of fun, and awesome beauty both of man and machine.

So one of the band of Cyclops gets his eye poked out by a clever quick man. In pain and blindness the Cyclopes screams, "Who Poked My Eye Out?" - The man answers, "Nobody poked your eye out!"

Screaming for aid, holding his Cyclopes hands over his blind eye, the blinded Cyclopes yells, "Nobody poked my eye out!"

The other Cyclopes hear "Nobody poked my eye out!" and say, "So what?"

"Meantime back at the ranch with Dale and Roy, Dale has discovered a bunny rabbit burrow and wants Roy to protect the bunnyrabbits from the predators.

Roy is in the habit of doing whatever he can to make Dale happy. However Dale has some pet cats.

Roy tells Dale he will do what he can to protect the rabbits by building a rabbit fort, but before he finishes Dale's favorite cat kills some bunny rabbits and eats them.

I hope you are confused.

Trans this may be what you seek

link

It's a crap site design with no home page link - so hit the 'back' button to get there.

Yes, very !

Hey you signed in ! :D

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/13038/Off-Topic-Post