Damaged Oil-Paint Tubes

Very strange occurrences.

Normal temperatures, humidity, etc.

Are the tubes of the same or different metals?

I was thinking of corrosion being the culprit but that does not account for loss of oil paint. Could the paint have dried out to look as if it were missing.

I am not aware of any living organism that would live and thrive on such a combination of materials.

When not in use you might try to seal them in large, glass jars if possible, or metal cans.

Indeed very strange.

Some insects drill a hole in wood to lay their eggs. Is there any stuff in the paint?

A photo would be nice.

Hendrik, this is only one of the tubes. The holes range in size. As you can see there are no nibble marks, or if, to small for me to identify. Like I said if it were insects or rodents I would see them flee when I open the studio. If the culprit would be a certain size they would leave a trace of paint which would be recognizable due to the stickiness and and intensity of the pigment.I have separated the "infected" from the others. I have tried to find out what the tubes are made of but could not get a conclusive answer. (Tin, lead, zinc). Most of the tubes are not of a major brand but were bought somewhere on my travels. The age of the tubes does not come in to it because some were old but others new.

If these occurrences were not so odd I would not have contacted this panel. Linseed oil is not piousness but I would not trust some of the pigments used. I am using oil paints since I was a child and have never seen something like this. Fellow artists have not encountered any of the kind either and some of them have been painting with oils since half a century in the same climatic surroundings.(Tropical North Queensland).

I have looked for droppings and other tell tail signs but nothing could be found. The paint inside the tube is not covered by a film, like oil paint would do if in contact with the atmosphere. These "Bugs" seem to keep their pray alive.

What makes things interesting is that if they are very small critters why make such large holes to get to the paint? If they were insects why go through all the trouble and eat something as appetizing as lead and oil paint when just meters away they could thrive on a tropical environment.

I'll go to my studio now and hope that it is still there. Hope you can help me out.

Thanks. Ky.

I'm not an artist so please bear with me awhile.

You noticed this two years ago. You put tape on the holes and then two years later, the holes have become bigger? Are you talking about the same tubes or are these new ones?

If these are old tubes, insects or rodents might have time to eat away at them. They may not necessarily digest the lead/tin/zinc but all they need to do is gnaw away the soft metal and get at the paint which you say is linseed oil - is that poisonous?

I once found a mouse hole in the apartment I was renting. I jammed it with an epoxy putty and thought I had solved that one. Surely a mouse wouldn't find the epoxy appetizing, right? Wrong! A few days later, the epoxy was gone and the hole was back. Now, a mouse may use its front paws to dig itself out but they usually use their teeth. I found no trace of the discarded epoxy. My guess is, they used it for their nest or something. The only other conclusion was they ate it. Could they survive on it? I've heard of rats eating styrophore and seen cockroaches eating them (the styrophore) so they must have strong digestive systems.

That would be my guess. Cockroaches, mice or rats. yuch!!!

Francis Bacon?

This is a odd one. I also paint and I've never had this problem, or even ever heard of it. Are the holes in a smooth section of the metal, or in the corner of a crinkle? Do you use any strong solvents or acids? Anything with copper in it? What brand of paint is it? Are all the holes in the same brand paint?

This sounds like corrosion due to old age...How old are the tubes?

It would seem to me that the tubes in question have come into contact with some corrosive or reactive substance....I would try washing the tubes, and I think the suggestion of storing the tubes in glass jars would make sense as well...I don't know of any creature that would eat metal, if the tubes were plastic, then that would be the likely culprit, but metal, I don't think so...

Have the tubes been opened? or does it happen with unopened oils? I have had holes develop in my paints, but it is usually around the bottom, where I have folded the tube as I have used the paint... The folding weakening the strength of the tube.

Of course oils have quite an odor. This might attract some sort of critter. Insects maybe. A thought that comes to mind, is to do a little acrylic work. See if the acrylic tubes have the same problems as the oil. Acrylic doesn't have the odor of oils. I personally prefer oils because the paint has a longer working time. Acrylics dry too fast. This would tell you whether or not the problem is in the paints, or in the tubes.

For the non-artists amongst us, the closest analogy would be a tube of toothpaste... but filled with very thick paint... which is diluted and mixed to be applied to a canvas.

Thinking about the tube... It has been years since I have done any serious painting. When I did, the tube was made by a thin metallic tubel... just like toothpaste tubes... which folded up so nicely when the contents got down. If they are using plastic tubes now, like toothpaste, then I hesitate to guess what the problem might be.

Are we talking about metal tubes or plastic?

Sincerely

Bill

Another thought...

With old paint, the paint will harden in the neck of the tube. You might try and squeeze the plug out, but it might burst... or weaken, the tube. Try cleaning the neck with a pointed pallette knife before using it. If that does not give you a free flow of paint, then go buy a new tube.

Again

Bill

Thank you for taking the time to find a solution to the problem Bill.

Bill:Have the tubes been opened?

Yes and it does not happen to unopened tubes.

Bill:A thought that comes to mind, is to do a little acrylic work.

Being quiet serious about my work I have a large assortment of tubes,paints and containers etc. Plastic tubes are not effected (Acrylic paint).

Being a computer novice ( one year today) I can't tell what kind, format of picture I posted. It was taken with a Canon digital camera if that helps. I just followed the prompts.

Assessing the responses it seems that my problem is of no big interest to the panel and this is probably a result of lack of detail I have supplied. Let me summarizer.

1. Lead, zinc or tin tubes are being eaten by something.

2. The contents of the tubes (Oil paint) are eaten as well.

3. There are no traces of insects or other vermin.

4. Nobody else seems to have encountered the problem

5. Acids, electrolyses and general physical wear can be excluded as a cause.

6. Paintings in storage have no sign of deterioration of the kind.

7. If this can happen with the combination of materials mentioned, identifying the culprit seems very important. Not only for the painters of this world.

8. The rate of deterioration is very rapid and I hope that whatever it is, it does not get to the solder of my computer or other electrical appliances.

Thank you for your time.Ky.

What is the environment of your studio (where the paints are kept) like? What is the ambient temperature in your studio? Also, how many people have access to your studio?

What is the environment of your studio (where the paints are kept) like? What is the ambient temperature in your studio? Also, how many people have access to your studio?

Hi Vermin

Thanks for doing some detective work. Most of my Oil Paints are hanging off a timber lattice frame and are sorted by color. This saves me time to find the paint I need at any given moment.They are facing screw-top down. The studio is very well ventilated meaning that there is a large roller garage door and a smaller back door. When both are opened it creates a nice breezy working environment. Temperatures are bearable all year round. 25 to 30 C. The house is of steel reinforced concrete and the second story has timber floors. The last inspection for vermin (White ants) was just a few weeks back and nothing was found.

Unless I am at work nobody has access to the studio. The laundry in the back part is only used by us and is separated by a timber room divider.

All hazardous chemicals are stored in a dis-used fridge which can be locked if our grand children are here to visit.

I have quarantined the infected tubes in single air tight plastic bags and will keep an eye on them. This will tell me if insects or vermin are involved or if it is bacteria that cause the problem.

I have shown the tubes to some friends and after the use of a magnifying glass all agree that no four legged or six legged critter can be responsible for the damage done. If there is an eight legged culprit that eats lead and oil paint my wife would return to northern Europe in a flash. We do have a variety of wasps but the structures they build are more from clay and cellulose. I don't think they would use heavy metal to reinforce their structures because there is an abundance of building material they could use.

Vermin, (I hope this is not your real name) all though I am treating this with a sense of humor please approach the problem as serious, as I know you will.

Thank You. Ky.

"I have quarantined the infected tubes in single air tight plastic bags and will keep an eye on them. This will tell me if insects or vermin are involved or if it is bacteria that cause the problem."

If the problem continues to occur then a time lapse video camera might catch or determine what or who is doing the damage. A single light on the bag at all times you are not present and camera on.

God! I wish I could see the scene and the paint tubes for myself. However, barring that possibility...

1. You don't need droppings to have rodent problems, especially where mice are concerned.

2. I can't help thinking that it reminds me of someone sticking their thumb in the bottom of chocolates to see what's inside, and thus...

3. So, how old are your grandchildren? Have you thought about the "two-legged" type? Could they be curious about the colors? Or, at worst, kids will eat some really weird stuff. If you examine the paint with a good 10X eye loop, check for any pattern in the paint that resembles little fingerprint ridges.

Please get that picture on line.

OK! I confess! You got some tasty oil paint there!!!

Actually, there are insects that will eat through lead to get at what they're after. Here in the states, the "iron beetle" will eat through the lead cladding of phone lines to get to the tasty insulation inside. These beetles are just little guys, they make cockroaches look like giants.

Also, if you're in the tropics, all bets are off regarding bacteria. They've found a bacteria (fungus?) in Ecuador that eats CDs. Yep, they got a taste for polycarbonate. However, if it were a bacteria, it would be hard to explain the larger holes. Bacteria, I'm assuming, would just enter the hole and spread through the tube.

One other point: don't discount the idea of an animal doing this. Pests are notorious for doing things when no one is around, and fleeing at the slightest hint of sound or vibration. Probably, the only way you'll catch anything is to set up a night vision camera. That was the only way they found the mice in Peru that were spreading hemorrhagic fever. Before the pictures, they had no idea that the mice were even there.

Also, also, what kind of picture did you post? My browser wont display it.

I would say "Rats!" But just to be sure, see if there is any (maybe colorful) rat poop- those small pellet like usually black droppings. If so then it is definitely rats. They eat anything. Once I noticed that my bar of soap was getting smaller and had teeth marks .. Was a rat...
Why don't you set up a cam-corder with a motion detector activation device? It could be paint-staking I know, but at least you would know then.

Lead and zinc have been used to make batteries, and lead and tin are components of solder which is conductive. Perhaps there is an electric current that is etching away the tube. Try connecting a voltmeter to the two ends to see if any voltage is present.

Try opening that picture taken with the Canon in Paint (windows) and re- save it as a jpeg. If you have an other picture editing program, use that. Then re post it on the site.

We've got two mysteries here chaps,

If you right click on the "picture" and then click properties: it shows that the file is "oil paint.jpg" albeit only 388 by 181 pixels. Could you see the picture yourself when you clicked on preview comment? Just because I'm very cautious, I never put spaces in file names, but, that shouldn't be a problem. Looking at the size: I wonder if you've somehow posted the icon instead of the file itself.

My money is on a mouse. A mouse trap would be a much smaller investment than a cctv recording setup. I once had a mouse (singular) eat half a bar of soap in my kitchen before I caught it; it did leave plenty of evidence of its presence, but, perhaps the diet had something to do with that.

This is not a mystery if this web site is running on a UNIX server... While Windows lets you get away with spaces in file names, UNIX does not unless when entered they're encapsulated with quotation marks.

Yes, bait a trap with oil paint and see what you catch! Brilliant!!! When you check the trap make sure to bring a baseball bat, just in case you catch a New York art critic.

Left: Photo Beginning stage. Right Photo: Advanced stage

"Yes, bait a trap with oil paint and see what you catch! Brilliant!!! When you check the trap make sure to bring a baseball bat, just in case you catch a New York art critic."

Mate, the whole studio is an oil trap and I am catching nothing at all. They are eating me alive and are only consuming the paint in the tubes. They don't touch the paint around the screw tops. They seem to want to do it the hard way for some reason. Like I have mentioned before non of the paintings stored are effected. As you see on the close ups there is no paint spilt which would happen if my grand children were the culprits. It would happen the same if a rat or any other critter would get into the paint. Nothing could hide having touched oilpaint!.....or is there.

The choice of weapon for NYAC's needs to be further explored because I don't think a baseball bat will do the job. They seem to be immune against any form of self-defence. Thanks for the help. Ky.

Great pictures!!!

OK, I'm working on something... You say you have good ventilation in your studio. Are you located near any body of water? Ocean, lake, puddle? Also, what is the average humidity like in your studio. When you do laundry, does the humidity increase.

If there is a list of ingredients on the tubes, does it "just" say linseed oil or does it say something more.

Can you provide a list of colors that seem to be the most affected?

One more question, besides the holes, the labeling (paint, paper, etc.) on the tube looks really messed up. Did this happen along with the hole or was this caused by something else - general wear-and-tear? Did you flake it off from around the hole?

I might have something for you.

I am situated on Magnetic Island in the pacific ocean off the east coast of Australia. Two minutes walk to the beach. Humidity can vary 60% to 99% and would not be influenced by doing the laundry.

Linseed oil is generally used in oil paints and no other specifications are given on the tubes, effected or not.

The effected tubes range from vermilion red to yellow ochre and viridian green. "They" don't seem to have a favourite color.

Good observation with the paper. It is caused by the same "thing". If need be I can send you a shot of the tube that was covered with sticky tape. They are trying to get back in by eating away at the tape and the adhesive.

What really baffles me is that the paint in the opened tube does not develop a film although it is open to the air. This would normally happen after 24 hours but not in this case. The tubes in the photos have been opened since some time and show no signs of hardening. This makes me think it could be a bacteria, to small to see and keeping the food liquid so its easier to eat.(After going through the trouble of eating through heavy metal?) Maybe it is using an enzyme or.......

The suggestion to rename the thread is a good one. "Damaged oil paint tubes" sounds like some physical problem which is not the case. It is more a biological problem or..??

"Revenge of the heavy metal oil bug" comes to mind. I thought I would have solved the problem by now but like all the easy things in life there is always more to it.

When I opened the sealed plastic bags this morning I detected the smell of alcohol emitting from the tubes/bags. This can only be the result of some fermentation because there is no alcohol in the oil paint.

If I could only harness this phenomena in a style of painting I'd have the NYAC's eating out of my hand. But then... maybe not. Please help!! Ky.

Weapon to be used on NYAC.......reality, take off his blinkers and make him see the light of day.

If it's a she, what do I take off ? Make her see what? Back to the drawing board! there must be a better way. Ky.

Hmm, yesss. I see the problem. I just don't see the cause yet .

The first picture looks like the damage I've seen from cockroaches. The second picture, however, looks terrible! Is the gray coloring natural (not really sure if it's gray, I'm color blind)? It looks like corrosion. What metal corrodes to that color? Then again, the label looks like it's affected too. Spooky!

If this were happening to me, I'd try the video camera thing except that it's going to be expensive. This happens slowly, right? Lots of film or memory will be needed. Time lapse would help alleviate that a bit. If it's a critter, you could use a motion detector to start filming.

Perhaps you could enlist CSI .

In case you find out what's really causing this, I'd be interested to know. I'm sure the others would too. Let's have the thread title changed:

The Mystery of the Damaged Oil-paint Tubes

Mmmm. Biodegradable oil paint tubes....

Hi Ky. I think I found the culprits.

I think you pegged it! Linseed oil should make an acceptable and tasty bio-fuel.

Rodents such as mice, rats, squirrels, etc. will bite and gnaw on soft metals like lead and zinc. About 2 years ago there was a squirrel that kept going up on one of the lower roofs of our house and gnawing on the lead flashing around the chiminey and scraping the paint finish off the extruded aluminum patio furniture.

I've also heard that rodents have been a problem in the utility industry where lead covered cables are used.

Yea...But why would they only attack the ones that have been opened?? And leave the sealed ones?

These paint tubes do you fold them up as you squeez the paint out? Do you wear a ring with a stone in set in it.? Just wondered. If not then are these holes that enlarge in the same place where you taped over the smaller hole? The adhesive of the tape could be the cause. Some types of tape have a realy nasty adhesive that can rot through metal of this sort. PS. some one stole the picture as well!

Thanks for the thoughts but they can be excluded.I have sent two more pics.Hope they can be seen. They show up perfectly here and I'm not using any fancy stuff putting it in the replies. See how we go. Thanks.

How do you make attachments to the message block? I've tried cut-and-paste but it didn't work.

Can you see a little green camera in the tool bar: click on it and browse to a filename.jpg file. I don't know what other file formats work.

Sorry we're off thread here: I'm keen to see a picture of Joe's perpetual motion loop of wire.

I don't want to prepetuate the off-thread discussion but as soon as I figure out how, I'll attach a sketch in the propper thread.

I just took a look at the evidence it is difficult to know the reason at this time. Can you store the opened tubes in a metal tin? It would stop any creature from chewing at the tubes. My brain is going into sleep mode note the local time. 02:58am bye for now.

Right hand picture

Are the effected tubes from the same or different suppliers?

It could be bacteria included in the tube while filling. The bacteria may only start to grow when exposed to (your specific) air.

WOW....

That was really fun to read...

Dude! Excellent! I know we can rate post's can we rate answers?

Great job, vermin! That was fascinating!

Are there paint alternatives that can be used? An environmentally controlled studio is probably overkill but that would be up to ky.

Take up water color ?

Jealous or what? The answer came to just few minuets ago. It is sweat. Plain old fashioned secretions from the finger and thumb. Wear cotton gloves Ky. This will prove it once and for all. You need a new and unopened set of tubes from the same source and manufacturer. Take one tube and open it but do not squeeze out any paint, next do the same but do squeeze out some paint, leave these in the same place as those you have that leaked and corroded. Next do the same again but wear gloves. Next place another along side un-opened un-touched. Put the next two in a tin box (metal) place some plastic under to stop any interaction between metals. This will have the effect of isolating the cause depending on witch one starts to form a hole or corrode first. The theory messaged by Vermin curious name choice there. could account for the problem but my money is on good old fashioned sweat it is highly corrosive. When I worked in a large electronics manufacturing area one poor individual had such a problem with his hands he had a weekly glove allowance. Let us know if you try my ideas and what you find. An island indeed.

With a good, old fashion tube of paint, I don't think that the required amount of sweat could be deposited over-and-over to cause the damage in the photos. Remember, after the reactant is used up (in this case sweat), the reaction is going to shut down pretty much. However, ky said that this happened only to tubes of paint that had been pierced. You could probably tarnish the surface of the thick lead, but eat a hole through it...

Wow... Vermin... You said you do what in your day dime?

Funny enough, they pay me to think about things and then write about 'em.

Size of hole about 3x5mm

Hey, ky! Can you see your house from here?

Hi Vermin

Nobody can see their house from here because it's all covered in rainforest, or most of it. I am very impressed with your research and the results and thank you for spending your time on solving this problem.

If you are right then this should be happening with other Artists living on the east coast of Australia. There are several artists on the Island and they don't have this problem. This phenomena will at least stop them from lending a tube of paint from me in the future (cross contamination). We always have to travel to Australia to get supplies and we rather avoid going to the big Island.

If your theory is correct,then what is eating away at the paper or (as you can see on the photo supplied) the adhesive tape that was to stop the paint squirting out of the hole in the tube.I know that this image looks like a war wound and it will be once I know what to fight.The stain in the adhesive tape is possibly the result of linseed oil seeping or being blotted into the fabric of the tape. If you can magnify the image you will be able to see the hole in the tube.

I have, in an earlier period of my life, been involved with electrolyses and know how aggressive it can be. I have seen platinum coated titanium dissolve in water assisted by high currents so your thought process is not foreign to me. I will test the tubes with a volt meter a.s.a.p and report the results to you. That is the least I can do to thank you for your commitment to my problem.

I am aware of the toxins involved with the creation of pigments and their distribution in oil paints.Lead based pigments have been banned for many years and for good reason.

Switching to water colors or other mediums is not on!! I have over the decades developed or reinvented the technique of thin layers of oil to achieve old master results. In technique not in choice of subject.

Sorry that it seems not to be over yet but there is hope, now that I know how serious the participants in this thread are taking the issue.Thanks. Ky.

Your picture looks like the reason why they don't let me play with sharp objects!

As far as the labels and the tape are concerned, I believe that they are being attacked by whatever aromatic chemical is being created. For example, try leaving a piece of polystyrene next to an open container of lacquer thinner for a week. With some sort of wacky spectroscope you could probably see a slow, bubbling cloud of reactants and their byproducts floating around your pierced tubes of paint.

By the way, I was out back of where I work today and saw something interesting. A painted piece of steel that once acted as a support for ivy. In the first picture, you can see withered ivy tendrils sticking to the paint.

The ivy was surprisingly fierce enough to penetrate tough latex paint. The second photo shows the result! Remember the "dingo sticker?"

What is this little box about. Not doing much what ever I try.

By the way, did you catch that entry that said: linoleum was invented in the 1840s, and is made from linseed oil and fibers? Apparently, these days, the stuff we have on our floors is really made from vinyl.

When I said about sweat even just one application can cause sever problems depending on you particular secretions I have seen copper etched away because of a single finger print. The fact you live in a humid location will further aggravate the situation. The idea of my experiment was to try to isolate the cause. By leaving the tubes in the way I suggested and then observing the result. Once the corrosive process is found you can sort it out and prevent it from going on. The fact that it is only those tubes in use supports my theory. You latest photo shows a mark and hole that match that of a finger or thumb in shape and size (Fair cop Mr.) The alloy the tubes are made of is very easily etched through by the secretions of the human skin.

Potato patato.

Curiosity gets the better of me Why "Vermin" and what has potato to do with finger marks? Silcon Valley Umm.

Pretty much!

'Potato , potato , so good they named it twice ' .

Darn it , wrong song . 'I say......'

Well I'm glad to see someone other than myself got that reference

. I wandered about the handle as well , but like the clips people choose for an Avatar it's more fun to think of amusing reasons. Life would be no fun without the unexplained (such as the paint munchers , 4-legged or not )

My explanation is that your paint wants to get out. You must make a lot of paintings, using the colors that wants to come out the most desperately. Your problem will stop if your supply output exceeds the supply input.

oomsarel

I believe you have solved the problem. It is evidenced by the fact that the paint in the tubes that have been handled, have the greatest hope of escaping and therefore exert the greatest effort in trying to get out.

Hello ky , this is curious , and vermin's responses seem the most plausible . I notice that on the right hand photo you posted , the tube has a distinct 'shoulder . This may be a potential weak spot for the tube/protective labelling to start splitting . A metal tube is going to be prone to small cracks appearing (you probably pick it up plenty of times to squeeze a small amount out ? ) . I've seen this on metal squeeze type tubes that I have used .Also the enlarged hole appears like a corrosive one (fairly smooth outline with no discernible gnawing marks). The only 'constructive test I can think of is to deliberately make a hole in a tube and watch how the hole develops (dangle it out of the way of animals somehow - blocking ant would take some ingenuity , but is possible) - that could almost certainly decide on corrosion or environment.

Kris

I met someone at work whose parents are both chemists by profession. I asked him to pass this thread along. So, hopefully, we'll have a full-blown chemist check out ky's problem!!!

I dont want to sound alarmist , but ky hasn't been here for a few days . Well , you know - artist / small isolated island / paint hungry critters ? Sounds like Lost meets Friday 13th .....

Hi

I'm back. Was just around the corner visiting the kids.( Australian saying for traveling more than a thousand miles).

I have come up with a list that includes all the aspects of the problem (I hope) that I could think of. All I have to do now is to find the cause through the a process of elimination. Here we go.

Problem: Oil paint tubes disintegrate.

Symptoms: deteriorating tubes, det. paper, det. tape (insect repellant picture framer tape), det. paint including heavy metal pigments, no skin on paint still in tube which is opened to the atmosphere.

Cause: Electrolysis, sweat, Insects, Spiders, Rodents, acids, Solvent extraction, Bacteria (archea), O/2, O/3, magnetism, highly conductive ambient surroundings.

Materials:Lead, sink, tin, linseed oil, paper, tape, glue, pigments, electrolyte, Alcohol.

Damage: Metal eaten, oil eaten, paint eaten, paper eaten. (Instead of eaten I could use the word disappearing).

Diagnostic Tools: Microscope, Photographs, Multimeter, time laps camera, weight, barometer, sealed containers, time.

Possible diagnosis: Two different bacteria living in symbiosis. (But who came first??)

I have made some contacts my self but no one has any clue what is going on. I checked the isolated sealed tubes when I got back and they have deteriorated even further. This can exclude any insects or rodents, which leaves us with bacteria, microbes or electrolysis. Sweat can not be the cause because I sweat all the time and all tubes should be affected.

Sorry vermin but solvent extraction will not explain the loss of paper, tape and other not solvent related materials.

Once I have solved this problem or found the culprit I will let you know at once. I hope you could do the same if it's not to hard, which it has become for some. And Kris, this is not some exiting movie or phenomena caused by superstition.

Conclusion: Something is turning the above materials into detectable alcohol fumes. If this is the case then the culprit could be used to ferment heavy metals into beer. This being impossible I hope for a more satisfying solution. See how we go. Thanks. Ky.

If the alcohol is amyl or methyl, they'll have your tape, labels, and all in a heartbeat. That's why we don't drink the stuff! "They'll do you a real treat, mate! See if they don't!"

You may have inadvertently become infected by one of the "chemo-synthesis" bacteria. These are the ones that live inside of volcanic fumaroles. They have the ability to chemically convert metals and their compounds directly into energy. Although were would you have picked them up? Is there any kind of volcanic rock or activity on or about your island?

On the other hand, I am surprised that anybody really lives in Australia, considering the number of VERY poisonous critters that live there. Heck, even the caterpillars can kill you! Not to mention the spiders and snakes. Even the platypus is poison! The cute, little platypus!!! Do children there hug teddy bears that have poison spikes sticking out of 'em???

No wonder Foster's cans are so big! I'd need that much alcohol too if I lived there!

"04/05/2007 10:59 AM

Hello ky , this is curious , and vermin's responses seem the most plausible . I notice that on the right hand photo you posted , the tube has a distinct 'shoulder . This may be a potential weak spot for the tube/protective labelling to start splitting . A metal tube is going to be prone to small cracks appearing (you probably pick it up plenty of times to squeeze a small amount out ? ) . I've seen this on metal squeeze type tubes that I have used .Also the enlarged hole appears like a corrosive one (fairly smooth outline with no discernible gnawing marks). The only 'constructive test I can think of is to deliberately make a hole in a tube and watch how the hole develops (dangle it out of the way of animals somehow - blocking ant would take some ingenuity , but is possible) - that could almost certainly decide on corrosion or environment.

Kris"

ky, of course, your problem could be worse:

January 15, 1919

Boston Molasses Disaster!!!

It is believed that a quick rise in temperature (from 2 degrees above zero on 1/12/1919 to 40 degrees above zero on 1/13/1919) caused the molasses in a storage tank at the Purity Distilling Co. to burst out of the tank.

21 people killed, 150 injured. 2.2 million gallons of molasses were released, pouring out of the tank in 8- to 15-foot waves. It moved at speeds of 35 mph, with a force of 2 tons per square foot. The flood destroyed buildings, crushed cars and knocked over elevated train trestles. The company paid $1 million in damages.

With a spillage like that , I can see why you're all concerned about honey supply !

No street cred in the afterlife!!!

"Who, me? Uh, I was killed by a 15-foot wave of pancake syrup."

"Stop laughing!!!"

What a way to go ! Mind you , I'd prefer Maple syrup

Ky , I noticed that there was no update for a few days and wondered how your investigation was going . If it helps , I think I have a few old artists oil paints somewhere and would be happy to sacrifice them to some testing if that's of any help -I can't mimic the condition here in the UK very well , but could try a few corrosion type tests if you think the info would be helpful .

Hi My boyfriend is a painter and he has that brand "Maimeri" and he got them dirt cheap because the paint store didn't want to carry them anymore because all the tubes had hole in them. I think they use cheap aluminum or whatever tube it is in is cheap and the paint is known for cracking....sorry to sound negative, but I think that might be an answer for you, the actual brand. All of his have holes in them.

Thank you Guest

I use only the finest oil paints available. This pest has not got a cheap taste. Are you sure they are oil paints. It takes years for it to crack, even centuries. What do the holes look like? Any thing like the size in mine? This is the first time I hear that some one has the same problem so please let me know so I can get to the bottom of this. Thanks Ky.

Hi .. it's me "the boyfriend"

If you're using anything like the paint in the photo you're not using the best materials available at least not the best available here. However, I think I confused things somewhat ... it's the georgian paint that cracks (over time) and the maimeri paint that all the tubes have holes in them. I think the maimeri problem is just due to low grade, very thin, aluminum tubes. This other thing may be something different. Is it only your dahler rowney Georgian tubes of oil paint that have suffered this affliction? I always thought those tubes felt a bit "plasticy" .. like you can't tell exactly what it's made of. Anyway, if it is only the Dahler Rowney Georgian tubes that have the holes in them it may be a god send ... I have nothing positive to say about that paint. Please keep in mind the cheapest lines of paint, like Georgian, are always coming up with new synthetic variations to replace older recipes for target colors ... it could be something in the paint itself that's eating away at the tube.

Sorry if someone mentioned this already ... I skimmed through the 2nd half of this thread.

Mark

Thank you Mark.

It was only a coincidence that the lessor brands were shown in the photos. Still, they could have introduced the pest. I hardly ever used them and they were left with me one day. In general all tubes are effected only the new ones are in good nick. I could just throw them out, but then I would just be throwing out what or who is causing this. All is isolated now and time will tell.

None of my paintings are effected which helps. Back to the turps.

Do you use real turpentine or that synthetic stuff that doesn't smell as much, but is much more deadly?

Also, did you ever use Windsor Newton? When I dabble, that's what I go for. Of course, I'm sure there are more esoteric and expensive brands out there.

Thanks for still showing interest. I am now adays using Windsor and Newton and could not be without their Oil Liquine. I have a problem with this site since a few days. My responses are not shown and I apologies to Mark and his girlfriend who were of some help. I hope CR4 can help. See if this is response shows up. Ky.

Yes. your post is there, and hurray for Windsor & Newton!!!

At last, a fine artist come to us.

I enjoy reading it, although I cnnt understand all the talking.

I have the oil painting and paint as well, some of them was stored in desk for decades and the oil paint was dried to solid, but no hole on it.

no becteria can eat it, sea wind cannt corrod the lead/zinc tube.

only white ants can eat it.

or there is some inoganic compound inner action and sea water with acid or alkli compund can corrod it, as show above picture.

maybe yuor paint is new kind and mixing some chemical meterial to make color more beautiful , fresh and vivid.

Did you ever figure out what it was? I am having a simialiar problem with something eating my 2 oz craft paint.

Dear Guest

No, I have not. I sealed the infected tubes in zip bags and it stopped. No other tubes have since been damaged and it is still a mystery to me what happened, although I think it could have been cockroaches or a certain species of them. The old tubes are still available and if I find the time I could send them to the Uni and have them analyzed but that's not "just done" from were I am. It has stopped and that is the main thing. To see what I do with the paints go to

http://www.zazzle.com/kysley.

Hope you can get yours under control because it is really annoying if the paint squeezes all over the place. Good luck, Ky.

I backed into a similar problem. I only use my garage for storage. This past winter I noticed small candy-like, brightly colored sprinkles throughout the garage. They mystified me. I had no idea what they were. The vivid colors threw off me. Yesterday I moved an artist's taboret into the house from the garage with the intent of doing some still-lifes in oil. When I opened a drawer of my taboret I got the shock of my life. Most of my oil paints had been eaten (apparently) by mice. The scalloped edged apertures on the tubes are at least 40% of the exterior. The sprinkles are vividly colored mouse droppings. Images are available on request. Thousands of rainbow droppings. And hundreds of dollars worth of oil paints are gone. Somehow, these mice from hell survived the toxicity. A neighbor's cat died last week, supposedly from rat poison. I'm not sharing the oil paint information with the neighbors. I did send this information to a local fine arts museum that does restoration work. For free images of droppings or destroyed tubes email Luar@Clearwire.net.

Hi guest

Now, exactly 4 years later and all is good. After separating the infected tubes nothing ever happened again. Still don't know what caused it but I think that mice would not be the problem. Never a trace of them, besides there are more snakes than mice around here.

Good luck with your still-lifes, much underrated nowadays. Here are a few mangoes for you, Ky.

PS: How did you find this thread?