Woodstove Humidity

Effectiveness no, H2O will hold a lot of heat. In it's gaseous state it will give a lot off to the room as it cools and condenses. I think you will find the room more comfortable at the higher humidity level. It has it's health benefits too.

As far as efficiency it's up to you. You may need to feed the fire more to maintain the same efficiency if you feel the kettle of water is drawing to much heat from the fire box.

I keep a large pan of water on my wood stove. I never really thought about the mathematics of it.

Mine is to keep my skin soft and supple.

That way I get to sleep in the master bedroom.

Heat taken by the water enters the room by both radiation from the vessel and transportation by the water vapor. Thus no net loss. Gassification takes place at the fire's surface, well away from the vessel. Thus no loss of combustion efficiency.

GA and funny too

Dear PFR, The answer to Part One; No.... heat is heat is heat ......power is power is power.Energy in the form of heat is used to raise the temperature of the room no matter what device or intervening method is involved, so long as it stays in the room....(not going up and out the chimney). Part Two; No, not as explained. what we are trying to accomplish in burning fuel (wood) is complete combustion. At some point it does have to become a gas to burn, so it is a time, temperature and turbulence concern.... if you reduce the temperature for a time it will still produce the same amount of heat energy in a longer time frame. P.S. GA to LL for explaining BTU"s so we are all on the same page.

I appreciate your response, although I will point out that burning logs (heating to the point of combustion) is by no means a time/heat equation. Conditions dictate efficiency. Inadequate firebox heat results in inadequate combustion, ie many unburned gases , oils, tars,(Fuel) goes uncombusted up the chimney.

Higher firebox temperatures result in a higher percentage of total combustion of the fuel. That is one reason why wet wood makes less heat than dry wood, it retards combustion by lowering temperature in the firebox. The other is that absorbs the energy bump that takes place during the moisture phase change to steam, is it not? That energy (which could be a BTU, I suppose) is not part of the radiant, conductive BTU flow. But I digress.

Does the steam (from the kettle) release all of the btu's it took to make it into the room?

<Does the steam (from the kettle) release all of the btu's it took to make it into the room?>

Unless the steam is used to do some work or leaves the room before it condenses, then the answer is yes.

Good morning PFR I hope the warm weather alleviates your stove concerns. let me try to respond to some points you have brought up....>I will point out that burning logs (heating to the point of combustion) is by no means a time/heat equation. < Your right it is not an equation, it is a formula without equal(sign). >Conditions dictate efficiency.< I concurr, but that is not relevant to the question, as asked. > Inadequate firebox heat results in inadequate combustion< Thank my point exactly, heat or lack of....such as is often the case when we add to much o2 ..... may achieve complete combustion but losses due to excess air( cooling the burner box). We all know that stoves aren't lab conditions we need excessive o2 to prevent CO from forming. >Does the steam release all the btu's it took< yes, and if done correctly it will release them into the smores. Warmest Regards, Ray

Steamed smores? After a boiled steak, perhaps?

The question is exactly

"are conditions (water on the stove that may lower firebox temps, thereby reducing combustion temps, therby reducing btu output to the room, and increasing uncombusted junk up the chimney) relevant"

so I'm a little confused as to why you would consider it irrelevant.

I'm putting water on the stove like I have for the last 30 years, so I'm not exactly on the edge of my seat, although you all can be entertaining, and for that, I thank you.

graham crackers are disgusting when steamed.

adding marshmallow and chocolate improves them a little.

Water vaporized from a wet log absorbs heat, which goes up the chimney. Water heated in the pot ends up as steam, which releases heat when it condenses, making everything all damp. When it condenses on the windows, the heat goes into the glass and thence to the outside world, which is where you need to go.

Is heat energy lost making a water molecule break off the surface tension of heated water? Is it turned into a weird form of mechanical energy? Only to turn back to heat again? A good question to kick around in quantum physics class. I forget all that stuff.

But:

Putting a kettle on the stove will increase its effectiveness. The kettle cools the stove where it is placed. That sucks more heat off the stove. That is what we want in a good heat exchanger. We want to cool the gasses going up the chimney, by transfering the heat into your house. The cooler the smoke, the better the transfer. We sometimes accomplish this by increasing the diameter [surface area] of the flue. We can also draw more heat off the fire by blowing air past the woodstove and/or chimney. In modern high-efficiency furnaces, the flue gas has had so much heat drawn off, that it loses it's "draft" and must be forced out the chimney with a fan. With the woodstove, you might want to keep the firebox fairly hot by insulating it, and exchange the heat after the gasses have left the firebox. That allows a more complete burn of all the combustables [in the wood] which can only oxydise at high temperature.

To exagerate the effect of a kettle, which only pulls heat off one small spot:

pass the chimney through a water jacket, and circulate that heated water through a radiator. That would cool the flue gas drastically, and transfer the heat, via the radiator, into your house.

A boiler.

...like your kettle, except more thorough [not as cool-looking as a woodstove with a steaming kettle on it.]

A well design firebox has the combustion chamber isolated from the flue. The chamber will circulate the exhaust horizontally and then make it turn 180 degrees back on it self to go around the top of the box and then out of the flue. All that heat on the top of the box can be converted to heat in the kettle without affecting combustion temps. Ahhhhh, the joys of viewing the combustion chamber with a warm and happy wife.

want to feel warm, put water on the wood stove.

want to feel less warm, forget to put water in the pot on the stove.

Adding a small pan of water is also used inside a hot air furnace.Built with a float that automatically adds water as it evaporates.

In the old steam radiators a shaped to the fins metal bucket is usually placed behind the radiator near the wall so you did not have to look at it.

Anybody who is anyone would not be seen without water on their stove or behind their radiator.

Thanks all. I will not be the one that doesn't put a kettle on the woodstove, for these reasons.

My wife likes supple skin.

I, too, like supple skin.

We like to feel warm.

I am anybody who is anyone.

I like to sleep in the master.

The fire doesn't seem to mind.

What about Bob?

Roundabouts are great as long as people know how to use them correctly.

Was that intentional or not?????? Wrong blog maybe????

LOL

YOU?????????????????? Sarcastic remark?? Noooooooooooooooooo.

AH!!

Thanks.

"Anybody who is anyone would not be seen without water on their stove or behind their radiator."

I don't have a radiator, and I have no water on the stove, because my stove is electric. Does that make me a snake skinned nobody?

How could I? How could I have used firewood for 70 years without knowing:

#1. Wet wood burns poorly...

#2. Moisture from the pot gravitates to the windows to freeze there...

#3. If I want to feel "less warm" (as opposed to cooler) I should not put the kettle on to boil...

#4. What if I wanted to feel "less warm" and did not do the next stocking...

#5. The building code, at least here in the GWN, has mandated the "360 degree swirl" at the top of the appliance for 30 years...

#6. Stoves prior to that era were either "combusted" during use, - or more recently installed on/in the wheels of our favorite ride...

#7. "insulating the firebox" may create more heat alright, just to be pushed or pulled or sucked up the stack... I prefer to leave the heat where it does its thing - for me....

#8. Providing a place for "o2 atoms to separate from their host" is good. The atom filled kettle radiates hot air from its sides as does the stove, with a bonus, - it carries part of a btu to touch me, or my clothes, or my walls, or furniture and alveoli, (when -30F on window panes too)...

#9. "makes everything all damp"? You bet, especially if you're in a 10x10x8 foot box, without a door or window....

#10. The question of effectiveness verses efficiency, in my opinion, - is a no starter!. A BTU retained in my space, is just that, ONE BTU to make me comfortable. The trick is in expelling only the poisonous gasses. Just like Detroit engines prior to '90, Not a pretty though when all is said and done. Someday soon, one of these molecules (from my "wet" wood too) will be one to many for me to handle, ... then this thread would have been ..................................................to late for me!

#10. How did I maintain 10 toes, same number of fingers?

I appreciate having been able to read so many points of view. Hope this breathes some fire down my neck too. So, ---- let 'er rip.... make my Sunday . . Frank

I liked your post mainly.

In really cold weather, there is not a lot of moisture in the air, a pot of water, maybe not at the hottest point on the stove (on my pellets stove the humidifier hangs in the air so to say, not touching the hot part in any big way, it constantly needs filling....and never boils!) will do something great to get the humidity up around the right point......a humidity meter is a must in a house anyway....

Sorry, but I needed to abdicate my chair and keypad for, - Raleigh, North Carolina, - and OUR NHL All Star Game. What a superb performance, - and yes, it is hockey, hockey, hockey, hockey all the time........................

In the meantime, the stove did need several stockings during the game, (actually quite a few stockings throughout the day), -20F to -25F for a high, - is cool. And needless to say, a few o2s escaped the kettle, to add several "wood matches" worth of comfort. I'll never forget the comparison! Ever! Yes, very much yes, cold makes for dry, very, very dry. Roaming o2s are a must.

By the by, methinks wet wood gives off as much heat as dry. But it messes up the stove, the stack and the indoor temperature. Regardless of how much air is supplied, it chocks and smokes and "really" pollutes. And that is a lesson I learned from daddy 70 years ago. There are yet several cords of dry fir in the stack outside.....

In fairness, the Detroit mentioned above, - should have read Windsor/Detroit.

I HAVE A LOT OF TIME ON MY PLATE. I DO TRY TO USE IT CONSTRUCTIVELY. I AM THIS ]< - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >[ MUCH WISER for now!.

Wood matches floating! Trust they stay in mid air ........... Ahhh!

GA

What a lot of people forget is if you can see smoke, its mainly composed of micro particles that the lungs cannot expell fully.......also tars and the like which could distill out in the chimney and catch fire at a later time......

No smoke at all should be the aim of anyone with a fire......even pellet burners make smoke for a minute when they first switch on, but are considered here still to be many times (100 - 200x is bandied about by the Government) cleaner than even a good wood burner....

So you are saying that my boiler is not all that efficient?

It may not be clean but I like to think of it as just undoing, in a few minutes, what a few bus loads of greenies worked so hard at all year to accomplish!

GO GLOBAL WARMING GO!

OMG

I guess you don't have a mosquito problem in the wintertime.

Do you realize that the particulates you are releasing into the atmosphere could block the sun and cause the next global cooling, which would lead to the next ice age.*

What the hell are you burning........tires?*

Greenies probably.

It's the body fat that causes it - till you get over that temperature knee.

I grew up in Yakima, WA, USA. In the 'old days', freezing weather during fruit blossom season was countered by "smudge pots" burning low-grade oil, wood chips, old tires, and God knows what else. Sometimes a smog pall drifted into town, limiting visibility to half a block or less, and giving schoolkids black nostrils. Later, "smokeless smudgepots" with recirculating stacks were developed, along with pretty clean propane-fueled orchard heaters. Later still, my uncle James Ballard, a world-class pomologist, spearheaded the indroduction of orchard overspray as a heating measure. Instead of grimy pollution, the world went to "crystalline icicle" orchards on cold mornings. This was much cleaner and cheaper than the old way.

LOL

No, energy is not wasted, or the efficiency reduced

Yeah, that's burning so inefficiently that a heat-seeking missile might not even find it....

LOL

You need an SS Missile.

Smoke Seeker!!!