Wacky Science - an open invitation

Oops! , Altzeimers on the way, Milli-Ohm?, Sorry folks! MEGA-OHM! Where's my Zimmer Frame?

Dear Alastair,

My use of the razor was to cut through BS of glorifying a commonly known object or method as if re-invented, rather than use the blade to cut through other blades in the general form : "Would you buy it, or would you invest in their development?", as my hesitation from doing so derived from the sense that they overshot their own goal describing electrolysis being under development as such which already started.

It's no I who wrote it. They did on a promotional site and video aimed at attracting investors?

Was I mistaken? Would you invest in it?

Oh-boy... Did you ?

...Not so here. V = I x R, & Watts are amps times volts...

Invested energy is calculated in my books with some, any, common denominator: x amount of watts per hour to disassociate the gas - versus - y amount of watts per hour extracted when gas flame used to drive a dynamo, AC or DC, you choose, I don't mind either way.

Were You convinced of their claim?, did they make any, or did they leave it aside. I would.

Invested energy in my books, is sometimes worth being twice input than output, if it's for some unique, exotic use calling for otherwise unobtained. Then, it is worth investing, exclusively in some given situation.

Which such use would be your choice? Layering Occam razor-tips with CVD?

...Camera Lenses and Glasses could theoretically benefit as well... - Please explain.

Again, don't mistake me for someone who hate hydrogen. I love the stuff, if only for it's glorious part in creation. I love carbon too, much for the same reason. But, should someone come to convince me in the matter of investing in a "...development which by the way already started..." of, say, C₄H₁₀, namely the "Blue-Flame Miracle", I'd simply call it Butane, of which I've plenty of in my backyard, for cooking and such, and ask them as blunt as an Occam's razor tip: "would you invest in the development of Butane?"

After all: would any of you invest in the "already started development" of electrolysis?

Jasper

Dear Yuval,

When it comes to my tools of the trade, I am a cautious investor. I would rather wait till I can afford the best, than opt for an inferior tool. Nice tools are a joy to work with. so the short answer is probably NO! but if a well known and respected manufacturer offered an equivalent electrolyser. then given the need, the answer would be YES! and with a big smile. For the simple reason I don't want Gas bottles cluttering up the place, and needing to be constantly refilled.

I have done a bit of surfing on the internet, and I am still puzzled. here is a sample:-

Transactions and Proceedings of the Royal Society of New Zealand...

The President then welcomed to the Council Dr. C. D. Ellyett and Mr. C. W. ... occupying the... http://rsnz.natlib.govt.nz/volume/rsnz_88/rsnz_88_04_009020.html

I PRESUME? This is the same Dr. C.D. Ellyett. (However, I am cautious enough to make a check. A Scam merchant could alter a testimonial to suit his needs easy enough. Most folk would just assume it was OK. As they say: "The internet is as reliable as lavatory wall graffiti")

BROWN'S GAS FACTS

Dr. C.D. Ellyett, Emeritus Professor of Physics, Newcastle University, N.S.W., Australia,...

http://amasci.com/weird/bgf1.html

Dr. C.D. Ellyett, Emeritus Professor of Physics, Newcastle University, N.S.W., Australia, prepared an independent technical assessment of Professor Brown's technology in 1986 . Dr. Ellyett has a double masters in chemistry and physics and a Ph.D. in physics. He was Foundation Professor of Physics at the University of Newcastle from 1964 to 1980,. specializing in geophysics. He is the author of 64 articles in various profession al journals and has been consultant to the U.S. government in upper atmospheric and space physics. He has lectured in the USA Sweden, Antarctica, South Africa, Holland, Canada, Singapore, the Philippines, West Germany and Finland. In preparing his observations of the Brown's Gas Generator, Dr. Ellyett went through several demonstrations of the technology, reviewed the U.S. patent, and also reviewed three reports prepared by Dr. John Bockris, various technical reports supplied by a large Australian industrial firm (prepared in 1976), a report by Caltex Oil (1979), and two Australian consultant's report (1979 and 1983). Dr. Ellyett noted that Professor Brown's Gas was considerably different in properties from a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen. He wrote: "The resulting differences are so unexpected that they raise initial skepticism in many technically trained people, including the present author, but the weight of demonstration for ces its acceptance. (Just change 'rejection' to 'acceptance'...What a cynic I am!)

"It should be stated here that the study of uses and applications has gone ahead of a complete scientific understanding of all facets of this process. Such a study will probably take several years to complete. However, enough has now been demonstrated to justify the techniques being commercialized immediately, and the first country to do so may in the long run achieve an enormous advantage in many technical processes.Brown's Gas is burnt in a blowtorch. The oxygen combines with the hydrogen itself, and as much energy is released on recombination as was needed to produce the initial dissociation. This results in a high temperature. (Did he write all this?)The product is water. Surrounding air and its associated moisture is excluded so the temperature is not lowered due to this factor, as it can be with other flames. However, at the high temperatures reached, some of the resulting water is again probably dissociated and hydrogen will interact to varying degrees with the material being heated.

The extent of creation of atomic hydrogen and oxygen is presently unknown, but complex reactions occur within the flame and between the flame and the solid, so that some materials being heated reach greater temperatures than others"....etc.

********************

There is loads more if you search, or go to the above link. Also I note a lot of invective flying about, i.e. that Professor Brown was no such thing, just an unskilled electrician...blah blah. We are back in the 'Discrediting game'. Marcus Tullius Cicero warns us about folk that hurl insults. They have generally no argument to fall back on.

You make some good points Yuval, when we get to our age, we have seen a few scams, but I am also aware of quite a few 'suppressions' as well. In my view your best point is "What's so NEW about this OLD stuff?" This is a Wacky Science forum, so perhaps we can shed some light?

http://www.bryzel.co.uk/microflame.htm Mmmmm? Nice looking piece of kit.

General Description
The Micro-Flame gas generating soldering machine has been manufactured in the UK for over 25 years and is acknowledged as an extremely safe, reliable and cost effective way of producing a high temperature flame in the range of
1200 - 3300˚c. It meets all EEC safety and quality standards.

The machine produces an oxygen/hydrogen gas, the characteristics of which can then be altered by passing it through a booster unit. The booster unit is filled with a solution such as MEK (methyl-ethyl-ketone) which changes the calorific value and temperature of the gas flame to suit your particular application.

Dear Alastair,

I must admit to enjoy this discussion with you, and should anyone tell you otherwise, just ignore it, even at my expanse. So, please take my replies with the kind and playful spirit I have, on my attempts to reply.

- - - - - -

Once again: Hydrogen burns beautifully. So do many H & O mixtures, giving off water-vapors only. Fine. Electrolysis Works. It's more expensive than the result, but it works. Fine.

My concerns are:

1. Why use fancy-shmancy descriptions to submit me into investing in their so-called-new, but in reality, already existing technologies? - Why?

2. Above 1900 kelvin, with any type of flame, you can fuse silica with any steel alloy. Was this the deal-clincher for you?

3. Not everybody with money to invest, may be as technology savvy as you are, and while you hesitate to invest (as you just told us) what would they do, given those fancy-shmance spins and brick-to-rod demonstrations? Would they stand a chance?

4. While I'm not a self-appointed morality-guard of commerce that I may appear to be, I'm still worried that there is a trend behind this clever, well-educated, attempt to fool people to depart with their hard-earned money:

First, because today, money is harder to make than any time in the past, due to globalisation of employment resourcing.

Second, the said trend of the use of pseudo science to convince people to invest, is a "hollow" form of capital-making, much like the "bubble economics" of the late eighties, which utilised some fancy computer jargon and ill-understood reasoning, to convince ignorant investors for the benefit of clever thieves, then-called entrepreneurs.

They indeed were entrepreneurs, only in the new-age venture of fraud.

Yours, Yuval

Second, the said trend of the use of pseudo science to convince people to invest, is a "hollow" form of capital-making, much like the "bubble economics" of the late eighties, which utilised some fancy computer jargon and ill-understood reasoning, to convince ignorant investors for the benefit of clever thieves, then-called entrepreneurs.

It doesn't need pseudo science . Who was the American 'entrepreneur' who sold mail order sewing machines (ie needle and thread). I'd buy an energy making device if I could pay for it from the money it saved me . Nobody selling windmills offers payment on a staggered return-on-investment basis - strange . I'll pause before I risk diverging (except to add that most dubious sales pitches rely on the marks greed )

...much like the "bubble economics" of the late eighties...

I meant to say "bubble economics" of the late nineties, of course. Sorry.

It's true in any age Yuval - South Sea Bubble C 1720 etc...

Right, right, I was mainly referring to the 1996 ~ 2001 hi-tek risk-venture start-up bubble.

Hey! What ever happened to that thing the Japanese had supposedly come up with, where they used highly magnified Sun light to disassociate hydrogen from oxygen in water? Now that was cool! But then it just disappeared.

Hi Yuval,

Quote:- "When we used to demonstrate electrolysis in the science museum in Haifa,"

Now I wonder what a dear friend Dr. Judith Bronski, from Haifa University is up to, Did you ever meet?

She came over here to research High Temperature Superconductivity at London Uni. circa 1990, Those blighters just gave her 'Undergraduate papers to correct' Judith is a world expert on magnetism. I was most embarrassed, we had some lovely long chats, but not much progress has since been made on the HT. Superconducting front. It's one of those fields that could yield huge dividends. At Cambridge circa 1983/4 I did my own research at the Metallurgy Dept and Cryogenics Dept. I used the simple method of examining the literature for signs of constant use. Books just fell open at the most photocopied page......Devious/Sly tricks like that get you ahead. I was in the Copper/Lanthanum Camp......and we won!....Whoopee! We must share information though. winning is not the be-all and end-all.

Just a humble note:

...research High Temperature Superconductivity at London Uni...

This, an oxymoron by itself, might lead folks to think conductivity and magnetism gets better as temperature goes higher, when in fact, it's the other way around.

Just to be on the safe side, it should be explained that "high temperature" in this context is at the very low temperature of T_c=138 K, that is −(minus)135 °C, called high, only when compared to the natural, ideal, un obtained of zero kelvin (- minus-273.15°C).

P.S: Never met the lady. The Haifa Science Museum is not linked to the Haifa university, but to the Technion, and Rekanatti foundation.

Off topic for just a second, Carnegie... When wearing a formal kilt, do you wear underpants or are you supposed to go commando?

A Scotsman never tells (or at least that's what I keep getting told).

Dang! I got $10.00 riding on this!!!

Pool it up to a clean thou, and split it with a Scotsman:

A man goes to his banker and tells him he's a relentless, always-winning gambler. The banker says: there is no such thing as an always-winning gambler. The man says: would you place a bet on it? The banker says: what did you have in mind? The man: I'll bet you a hundred, you have pyramid-shaped balls. The banker: what? I'll gladly take such bet. The man: tomorrow, I'll bring my referee and we'll see. Comes tomorrow, they go to a private booth in the safe, the banker shows, the man grabs, and says: You're right, here's your hundred. A day later, they meet again, and the banker says: I told you, there is no such thing. The man: what are you talking about - I made nineteen hundred on this bet. The banker: what are you talking about? you grabbed my balls and payed. The man: Yeah, but I bet my referee that I'll have him see me, grab my banker's balls, for a clean two thou.

It's all relative, see?

Dear Vermin,

We had to learn to read in "Mirror Writing" If our Boots were not shined to optical perfection, we could not read the Newspaper Headline so presented. In theatre, it could save your life. Known as a Claude Glass, i.e. a mirror.( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claude_Lorrain )

There you are stuck in the trenches, blah, and you need to know who is creeping up on you. put your head up, and it might just get blown off, so put your boot up instead. then use same boot to aim a Lee Enfield 303 Rifle to blow his stupid head off!

Naturally I wear Marks & Spencer Underpants under Trousers, but under a kilt? I would die of shame. Those Sandhurst specification boots would give the game away

Until the 50 cal. Barrett, the Enfield 303 was the first choice commando sniper for it's accuracy and score-repeatability, here and abroad. It's an ancient gun really. Pre-WW1, I think.

Today, the much higher profile Barrett is chosen for it's armour-piercing abilities.

Pre-WW1 is correct! My dad has one.

I fired it on two occasions, nearly broke my shoulder. Kicks like a mule

Hey! What happened to all of C.N.'s postings?!

Whoa!!! That was weird! Almost everyone's postings disappeared for a minute!

Dang! I just lost $10.00!!!

I like Claude's Book of Truth idea , he would have enjoyed the internet age if he'd been around - seed a few howlers in a written work and see how the article propagates . It could save Teachers a lot of marking time. Somebody of my acquaintance had to publish a computer program as part of his Uni Thesis , and modified it with a few booby traps to catch the plagiarists (No real harm done since his work was probably destined for the dusty shelves . As I was once advised , we start of knowing not much about a lot and progress to knowing a lot about not much -thats a rough translation ).

Dear Alastair,

...At Cambridge circa 1983/4 I did my own research at the Metallurgy Dept and Cryogenics Dept. I used the simple method of examining the literature for signs of constant use...

This indeed is some clever heuristics. When you first hear of someone's all-new theory, and you google the fella to see how many references their name might yield, you get a sense of reality knocking. Many do so, and as a matter of fact this self-search is a part of Google's own algo for the placement of searched objects. The raw number of references, that is.

Hi,

"brown gas"

what is this nonsense of atomic hydrogen and oxygen?

These are some of the most reactive gases you can think of and you would get a terrible explosion much more intense than you can imagine and much more intense as molecular H2 and O2, as the energy content is extremely high.

Atomic H and O gases are not at all stable but similar situation of dissociated or ionized gases are used in high temperature welding with argon (as a plasma) or nitrogen as atomic gas may be also ionized.

This is made by blowing the gas through an electric arc, this gas recombining some cm downstream giving a superhigh temperature at near 5000°C.

So if brown gas is simply burning without explosion there is something very different existing. What?

It can be simple electrolysis with subsequent storage inside some absorbing agent similar to the storage of acetylene in acetone.???

But if so then there would be the same or similar power dissipation (heating) as in ordinary electrolysis.

Is there anybody from the contributors of this thread who has seen and tested this "brown gas generator" himself? If so, what type of test?

"sonoluminescence":

This is a high energy but very small volume implosion, search in "Scientific American" they had a superb article on this topic some years ago.

The maximum temperature in these collapsing bubbles clearly exceeds 28000°C, as the spectrum is continuous up to this energy / Wavelength and above the water is no longer transparent so no proof was existing about the true maximum temperature.

But I think it very unlikely to reach 200 million degrees and if so the yield is so small that a suitable power generator is not expected.

This is similar to the "Schwarzschild-Generator" in Perry Rhodan science fiction (more fiction): Their spaceships used a small suspended black hole for generating the necessary energy. No word about suspension and how to isolate and how to feed and how to extract and convert the x-rays but not a bad item to speculate about.

If somebody succeeds in generating a small black hole on earth (or import it from space) it is the moment when earth will blow up in a gigantic explosion.

Have nice dreams

RHABE

(Alistair: what about Mohenjo Daro radioactivity?)

...Is there anybody from the contributors of this thread who has seen and tested this "brown gas generator" himself? If so, what type of test?...

Hey RHABE, this should by my question, as a self-appointed Occam questioner here ...

I have had a black hole in my possession for a number of years now. It's in my hall closet. I know it's there because I keep stuffing things in there and it all seems to stay put.

...I have had a black hole...keep stuffing things in there and it all seems to stay put...

Dear vermin,

What a coincidence: they all appear in my mini-wormhole at my garden-shed. For years now, I couldn't tell who's stuff it was, but now I can ask for their description, and should they prove yours, I can re-sell them to you at only half the retail of their origin. My people will get in touch with your people any day now, to discuss some agreeable terms of negotiation, for the prospect of furthering the subject of negotiation to a fruitful advance. Like ?

Your sincerely,

Yotz. B. Flask,

Yokohama

No, no, no, no, no! Whatever you find is yours! I sure as heck don't want it back. That's why I shoved it in there in the first place!

sonoluminescence:

This is one of my favorite bits of weird science, and can show up every day in such mundane things as turbines and boat propellers.

Re: brown gas:

Seems doubtful that it works as advertised, doesn't it. It seems that ordinary electrolyzers, in which H2 and O2 are generated, are described as Brown's Gas generators (even though they don't have this mysterious ability to split the molecules). The soldering devices work on this principle, and seem to be lumped together with Browns Gas devices in the "alternative/fringe energy" world. Is there really a working prototype of a machine which somehow produces and uses a gas that is not simply a mixture of H2 and O2?

...nonsense of atomic hydrogen and oxygen...

Not as a maintained mixture, but as introduced at oxidation point

Hi RHABE,

Thanks for warning of the dangers, anybody putting H2 & O2 in a tin, and igniting it, should be ultra cautious, an 'explosion' rather than 'implosion' could result. There are conflicting reports from my own internet searches, many affirm the 'Brown Gas' implosion, yet others refute. Despite the slap-dash Wacky Science approach that many videos on Google and You Tube reveal, at least the experiments are being repeated many times. This has to be good news, but I hope someone does not get injured! in the process. One video from Byron Bay NSW. shows this magic water in a balloon being lit and bursting into blue flame. Vodka? Gin? White Rum? surgical spirit? would all do the same, it made me feel very uneasy about the credibility of the promoters, and gullibility of the audience.

"sonoluminescence":

For the principal editor of the journal "Nuclear Engineering and Design" in which the paper has been published, Bubble Fusion is finally demonstrated. Professor Günther Lohnert, head of the Institute of Nuclear Technology and Energy Systems of the University of Stuttgart, has conducted the review himself and consulted many experts.

For the first time, I would say, in the history of mankind a simple mechanical energy mechanism has shown to be able to produce temperatures considerably in excess of millions of degrees!

This sounds like we are getting close to the appropriate parameters. considerably in excess of millions....read that again....millionS of degrees. I doubt it would be very easy to pull wool over the eyes of the principle editor of that journal!

I think the reported achievement is laudable for the fact it was accomplished on a shoe-string budget. It would be a pity if at least a little money was not made available to continue this research. Adequate funding may be the greatest obstacle?

Oh yes? "Mohenjo Daro radioactivity", I cut-n-pasted your query to Google Search, those three words came up with loads of results. first up:-

http://www.philipcoppens.com/bestevidence.html The story begins when a layer of radioactive ash was found in Rajasthan, India. It covered a three-square mile area, ten miles west of Jodhpur. The research occurred after a very high rate of birth defects and cancer was discovered in the area. The levels of radiation registered so high on investigators' gauges that the Indian government cordoned off the region. Scientists then apparently unearthed an ancient city where they found evidence of an atomic blast dating back thousands of years: from 8,000 to 12,000 years. The blast was said to have destroyed most of the buildings and probably a half-million people.
Archaeologist Francis Taylor stated that etchings in some nearby temples he translated suggested that they prayed to be spared from the great light that was coming to lay ruin to the city. "It's so mind-boggling to imagine that some civilization had nuclear technology before we did. The radioactive ash adds credibility to the ancient Indian records that describe atomic warfare." When excavations of Harappa and Mohenjo-Daro reached the street level, they discovered skeletons scattered about the cities, many holding hands and sprawling in the streets as if some instant, horrible doom had taken place. People were just lying, unburied, in the streets of the city. And these skeletons are thousands of years old, even by traditional archaeological standards. What could cause such a thing? Why did the bodies not decay or get eaten by wild animals? Furthermore, there is no apparent cause of a physically violent death. A. Gorbovsky, in Riddles of Ancient History, reported the discovery of at least one human skeleton in this area with a level of radioactivity approximately 50 times greater than it should have been due to natural radiation. Furthermore, thousands of fused lumps, christened "black stones", have been found at Mohenjo-Daro. These appear to be fragments of clay vessels that melted together in extreme heat.
Another curious sign of an ancient nuclear war in India is a giant crater near Bombay. The nearly circular 2,154-metre-diameter Lonar crater, located 400 kilometres northeast of Bombay and aged at less than 50,000 years old, could be related to nuclear warfare of antiquity. No trace of any meteoric material, etc., has been found at the site or in the vicinity, and this is the world's only known "impact" crater in basalt. Indications of great shock (from a pressure exceeding 600,000 atmospheres) and intense, abrupt heat (indicated by basalt glass spherules) can be ascertained from the site.

Not conclusive yet, but 'highly suggestive' in my own view. Again further research is in order. It's a very important topic! with our current headlong race to proliferate these menacing weapons, just like Robert Strange McNamara in his book "Blundering into Disaster" expresses eloquently, "There is no more important topic"

I'll have to admit, I am not sure to what extent some are talking about "Brown's Gas" with tongue firmly in cheek. Brown's Gas is simply the mixture of H2, O2 and water vapor that you would collect over the water in an electrolyzer, if you didn't take the care to separately collect the gases from the cathode and anode. When you ignite it, of course it explodes -- many of us have done this for fun as kids or kids at heart: it's quicker and easier than collecting H2 and burning it in air (as in the typical science museum demos) and produces a more satisfying bang, because of the stoichiometric ratio and the premixing.

The original patents were for a welding/soldering machine, for which this gas mixture can make some sense, under very limited conditions. (Obviously arc, TIG, MIG, oxyacetylene, etc have not been replaced, despite the obvious simplicity of generating and burning "Browns Gas" -- any kid can generate this stuff in his garage.) The original patents have nothing to do with "atomic" hydrogen or oxygen -- this is all voodoo science, made up by scam artists. There is no "Browns Gas" that is unique and apart from the simple mixture of H2, O2, and H2O vapor that kids play with.

Sites like PESWIKI, which publish a mixture of science (some) and crap (a lot) show machines that operate on this mixture as some sort of proof that "Brown's Gas" exists, and then use the existence of these real machines as proof of ludicrous claims, such as that you can get more energy out of this mixture than you put into electrolysis, cars that run on water, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc.,

Does H2, O2, and water vapor explode? Of course. Does it subsequently implode? Of course, if by that you mean that liquid water takes up less space than water vapor. Steam hammer is not magic. So suppose you ignite some of this gas mixture (which I will call xxxxx's xxx to avoid further obfuscation) in a cylinder capped by a piston that cannot be blown out, but which can be sucked down. Ignition. Pop. Then just a fraction of a second later, the piston gets "sucked" down (actually blown down by ambient air pressure) with a thud. Nothing there that would contradict the ordinary operation of nature we call science.

(BTW, for those who have not followed this sort of thing, in most articles about over unity-machines, etc. one could do a search-and-replace for "Dennis Lee," inserting "fraudster" at each location, without any change in meaning.)

re sono:

I first encountered this phenomenon when researching cavitation in underwater foils. In my boat (see avatar) cavitation would be expected in a typical hydrofoil (say naca 0010) when the side load on the foil (the centerboard) was about equal to the weight of the boat and the speed was around 45 knots. Propellers pitted from cavitation (an entirely different effect than "ventilation," which the incorrectly named "cavitation plate" on an outboard motor reduces) show that cavitation can be very destructive, due apparently to the high temperatures and impact forces as these little bubbles collapse. The blue light emitted would seem to suggest the same.

Oh BTW, here's another nominee for weird science: in this case, real and observable: EMP (as in EMP warfare). I hope it will not be observed on a large scale anytime soon.

NOTICE TO ALL HERE.

I've submitted the Monty Hall problem under a different name as a challenge question. Please... no spoilers.

I may be unusually quiet for a few days as I laugh myself stupid ! Nice one - But can you persuade Chris Leonard et al (sorry Chris if you're watching - it's a really good one). My lips are sealed Ken.

Hi Kris,

Ken just sent the question to me and i forwarded it on to the "Challenge Questions" team for review.

Thanks!
- Chris

Well this could be interesting (not least because I'll have to bite my tongue !) . Hat's off to ken for deciding it was worthy of submission . I really don't envy your (the admin teams as whole's ) task . I Look forward to the fun , if this poser meets the standard.

ps-can you get the team to acknowledge the original sources Chris ? ( a bit hard to track , but credit where credits due and all that)

Will do! Usually the team comes up with the question, but when it comes from CR4 I make sure the submitter gets credit.

Dear Yuval,

First let us establish a few facts. Intergalactic Radio Communications are very advanced and highly sophisticated. Communications are the 'Key' to Command.

One of the Greatest Scholars of Ancient Vedic Literature, New Delhi has renamed a major Street after Him, was His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. from the Gaudia Matha Sampradaya., in India. He gave lectures on how in millennia past we Humans had a most advanced Civilization. How Vedic literature reveals that we had perfected genetic engineering to the point where Vegetable Plants were genetically engineered to relieve women of the burden of childbearing. etc etc.

He wrote:-

Quote:-

"Another consideration is that it is not interplanetary in the sense of not being within the physical proximity of Vivasvan or Manu or Iksvaku when the teaching was handed over one to another. How can we say so? Because Vivasvan was the father of Manu who was the father of Iksvaku!!! Being a father to a son has nothing to do with physical proximity??? The transmission of knowledge from Vivasvan to Manu to Iksvaku had no connection with physical proximity??? Prabhupada even says that Iksvaku came from the sun-planet. So much for the bogus theory that 4.1 teaches "interplanetary" anything. Manu was given the entire bhu-mandala to rule over and he built Ayodhya for Iksvaku and installed Iksvaku as the first ruler of Ayodhya. No physical proximity between Manu and Iksvaku??? Or between Vivasvan the father and Vaivasvata Manu the son of Vivasvan??" "In the context of BG 4.1, Prabhupada explains that there were transportation service from one planet to another. Even if this transmission of knowledge is termed "interplanetary," because of such interplanetary transportation services in the universe, people can travel to another planet and be in the physical proximity of the teacher. Also the living entities in the higher planets (like the sun) have mystic powers to transport themselves with ease." We quote the conclusion to this passage which refers to this inter-planetary travel, but also adds something else:
"So there was no difficulty in communicating with Manu or Manu's son, Iksvaku. The communication was there, or the radio system was so nice that communication could be transferred from one planet to another." (SP Bg. Lecture, 24/8/68)
Srila Prabhupada clearly states that another method of communication was ALSO used - RADIO. We then added in 'The Final Order' after the above quote that:
"It would appear that diksa is not affected by the physical distances between gurus and disciples." ('The Final Order', p 31)
Since the 'nice radio system' was also used so that 'communication could be transferred from one planet to another', our statement above is correct, since the physical distance was surpassed through the use of a radio system. The fact that inter-planetary travel may have taken place does not change the validity of the point we made above

Hi Yuval,

More "Wacky Science" ...Title "Stairway to Heaven" & "Flying Kites"

http://pdf.aiaa.org/preview/CDReadyMASM07_1064/PV2007_330.pdf

This paper presents the development of a multigrid parallel algorithm for a fully

nonlinear aeroelastic analysis. The aeroelastic model consists of: (1) a nonlinear

structural model that captures in-plane, out-of-plane, and torsional couplings, (2)

an unsteady, viscous aerodynamic model that captures compressible flow effects for

transonic flows with shock/boundary layer interaction, and (3) a solution method-

ology that assures synchronous interaction between the nonlinear structure and the

fluid flow, including a consistent geometric interface between the highly-deforming

structure and the flow field. A parallel computation algorithm based on message-

passing interface was developed for the flow solver. This parallel computation

algorithm and the grid generator of the flow solver were developed concurrently to

improve the efficiency of parallel computation. A three-level multigrid algorithm

was implemented in the flow solver, to further reduce the computational time. The

validation of the aeroelastic solver was done using experimental results of the F-5

wing and the Nonlinear Aeroelastic Test Apparatus (NATA) wing.

************************************************

Great Yuval, we have fifty of these beauties available. A Prize for the first entry here on CR4 to recognise it. (A hand drawn I LIKE WINDOWS PAINT BOX.....painting, you will be amazed at what an artist can do with limited materials, like a chewed stick and turpentine and a bit of road McAdam) I copy to the Prizewinner and one Copy to The Whitworth Art Gallery. and a third copy to Honor Fraser's Gallery.

The picture will be this aircraft flying over Mount Kenya, with perhaps Ngobit Estate/Eserian Farm (Where the Film "Born Free" was filmed) in the foreground? The First of the "Storey Board" Pics for the "Billion Dollar Movie"

The Antonov (240 was it?), or do I confuse it with the Volvo 240, you know the monster that piggy-backed the soviet shuttle across Russia to the launch-pad...

Forget it. How about the them British V series Delta bombers, Eh? Now, these are my kind of machines: Vulcan, Victor, and the third one, what was it? A Sleek, heavy monster, agile as a fighter one-tenth it's size, the first ever auto-pilot landing, Eh? Eh?

Yeah, I know, first was the Valiant then the Vulcan, then the Victor, who cares?

Most for me, is the Vulcan. What a beast!

Close Yuval, What I need is the Full Number, as in "Vulcan XY007" Second part of the prize will be a cruise on that Ship, if ever it gets down the slipway. At least half a million pounds sterling will be needed just to certify the plans. They build a small scale replica, and put it through it's paces. When they have finished with it, We can probably hoist it into space, with the bad guys trapped inside.......then they re-enter the Earth's Atmosphere.........and she gets ripped to shreads......007 Escapes, to receive a medal, probably from a Black Lady President?...who knows? Plenty of future Prizes on offer, That Ship burning up would look good. I will do it for Robert Bigelow

http://www.thespacereview.com/index.html

Antonov An-225?

And the Prize GOEEEEEEEEZ TOOOOOOOO YUVAL! a big round of Applause please. And this is my cousin Honor Faser on the right, with Sarah Watson

And this one?

A hint: It's not the Gloster Meteor

Another: From the front view it looks like a shark

I zink zeees eez vun ov Adolf's LuftWagonz?

Zee Chermanz Kneew howv zum built zem, yez?

Yez!....Ooops "Ja", They most certainly do. I think German Kids must be given better quality toys to play with. Things like Kinder Eggs with a puzzle they have to solve before zey can eat ze egg. Cool.....I was given the great Honour to Represent the Manchester Festival of Expressionist Art, "Entry into Europe" in 1992, as the Lead Artist. Manchester was closed down for a fortnight. His Excellency Baron Von Richthofen, The German Ambassador to the court of Saint James was President. Both His Excellency and Alastair Smith, Director of the Whitworth went to work on a push-bike. We did Oska Kokoshka's Play "Murderer Hope of Womankind" as the main event, but sadly Alastair Smith refused to allow us to Burn Down the Art Gallery, which was the plan. We would have made replicas of all the paintings, sounded the fire alarm got everyone out safely....loads of smoke.....then flames everywhere......We worked out a satisfactory alternative ending. It was well Cool!

German Humour ? (Werner Voss ) .No artistry by me.

A little postscript to the 1992 show, Richard Gregory, who also produced a "Warm-Up" Play "UBU" was the Director for "Murderer"..."UBU" was great, the queue went the full length of Oxford Street, about a mile, Richard Filled the Manchester University Theatre next door to the Whitworth Gallery, He flooded the floor to about a foot with very convincing fake sewage, with live slugs, and old beer cans, used prophylactics, etc. A scaffold was erected above, and life size puppets were used. There were two queues, a slow queue, where folk could borrow waders, and a fast queue, where the punters just rolled up their trousers...or arrived in a Kilt......Sure was entertainment. We had our entertainment watching the looks of quizzical horror on the faces of Fire Brigade Officers, and Health and Safety Officials, as we presented them with the list of ....Ahem!....."Events"....We wanted to put on.

Richard was amazing, we kept poker streight faces all through. As if discussing the construction of a Nuclear Power Plant/Whatever.

...Black Lady President?...who knows?...

Now, Wouldn't this be sexy... Name it!

What an amazing design! - Zee Chermanz also designed the first delta-wing and the the first flying-wing, later adopted by Northrop

Did they not use ziz von in ze raiderx of ze lost ark? Unt by ze vay, ziz iz ze first pastel drawink I did of ze vife. She inzisted on beink naked nangy-pangy-birzday zuit fashion. after about an hour she asked me if i voz gay? coz i had not made any advanzez....to vich i rezponded "Vot do vou zink I am proppink up my drawink board viz>" zen she zed, "Vell vy not get on viz it" unt zo I zed "Ve are not married" but zen she zaid "But vou are a vicar" ........It voz minuz 20 degrees zelcius outzide....by Scottish law......I knew ze vords by heart....."Dearly Beloved, we are gathered here today in the sight of God"....etc.

And by the way, the child so conceived, Christa Rachael Carnegie, named after one of Mother Teresa's Nuns in India, was born on 9th of October 1985. in Burnley Hospital. it was a very busy night, and my wife had to have a student midwife to attend. There was a miss-hap AKA "Volvulus" a knot in the stomach. The Stomach burst at the first feed, The room where mum was placed was flooded by an overflowing bath above....Mum was moved, but when she called for assistance, the poor Doctors ...on 80 hour weeks....could not find her.....in the morning it was too late.....I requested she be used for Surgical Instruction to Students, at least her life would not be a complete waste. She was immediately transferred to Saint Mary's Hospital Manchester. Her vital signs were terrible....So I went to a Hindu to whome I was given directions to by a Priest in a local Moss Side Sikh Temple. There was a riot in full progress, with Police everywhere. Fortunately as a Royal Military Police Chaplain, I was allowed through to dialogue with the Rioters Throwing Petrol Bombs, They responded very nicely, and picked up all the broken bottles and put them in the waste paper bins, as I had requested...honest.....it's been filmed....Then I obtained four leaves of Sacred Tulsi, Patram Pushpam Phalam Toyam, yo me bhakti prayachati...etc A leaf flower fruit or water may be offered to me in prayer. Took them back to Saint Mary's Special Care ward, and requested they be placed in her incubator, next to the air intake. The Surgeon and Doctors had to be consulted, there was no objections, and I went off to make a cup of tea. By the time the kettle had boiled and my tea bag was just soaking in the cup. Nurses came rushing in struck with wonder....you must come quickly.... I did as they asked, and the Doctors were standing around puzzled. Christa's monitoring equipment, was showing all the same readings as a perfectly healthy baby.

Then rather than let her die, they had told me just the anesthetic would kill her. Mr. Bianci The surgeon agreed to operate. Christa had less than half an inch of live material left by the maggots used to separate the gangrenous tissue. Mr. Bianci patched all the little bits together, and Christa grew a new stomach.. "Wacky Science" for you I suppose. Two Full Crates of Bubbly to celebrate her 21st Birthday.

But just wait till I tell you about the Miracle.....Nothing to do with Christa Carnegie, but about Christa McCauliff the Teacher on the Challenger Space Shuttle. Another post for that. even "Wackier"

'Wow' is about all I can think of . Amazing.

Happy Days, Kris, sometimes are not exactly happy at the time. One rather nice bonus, was that The Chief Constable of Greater Manchester converted to Roman Catholic....Cool....Also I was constantly spotted by regular Police Officers, who just called me Sarge (That would get you in trouble in the military! make no mistake. Sergeant or Saarnt), The Royal Military Police Territorial Branch http://www.army.mod.uk/rmp/join_us/rmp_ta.htm

was disbanded in 1997, but it is technically correct "Sergeant of the Peace", it goes back to the thirteenth century. The poor rioters probably thought I was there to give them their last rights. I did infer they could get shot for what they were up to. Wellington College and Sandhurst have a way of throwing you into such mad insanely dangerous situations, that after a while you just take it in your stride. There is a lot of innate human psychology involved. I can thoroughly recommend any lad interested to make enquires at the link above. They will have the time of their life.

Also all that "ze ziz unt zat" reminded me of the funny remark my Children's mother made at the time. I reminded her that there would be consequences and we might have to call the child Fitz-Carnegie. "As long as it's Fitz with a "z" that's fine." she said! zex iz for procreation. but sadly I had encountered so many countless mirracles, that by 1997 I gave in, and took full anointment. Technically that is your last rights a little early. you are officially 'Dead' after that. And as I took the Franciscan vows, I can never lock my doors, or possess any property, if someone asks to borrow your car, and never returns it...fine. Possession is a state of mind.

On a philosophical thought I wonder if happy and sad are inevitably linked - you cannot know one without the other . They are relative terms , so one can only change what to compare them to. Some people clearly have this figured.

I was intrigued by Sergeant Bowers of the REME specialists who currently "work(s) as a vehicle " . In a sense it may not be a typo. I suspect they would regard me as too old a candidate , which would certainly save giving a variety of other reasons for rejection.

Possession is a state of mind.- Thats a lot more interesting than the hackneyed theft quote. I shall slowly muse upon it. So many things to enjoy thinking about - I like the 'fact' that fear and laughter share physical manifestations , it has a depth of implications. I have a great 'upside-down' picture somewhere I shall dig out - it is just amusing without any explanation. A simple change of perspective.

...raiderx of ze lost ark... It sure looked like it, but no survived Horten was ever kept operational, so it's more likely that a look-alike voz beelt voor ze zinema mit Haarizon Voort.

...It voz minuz 20 degrees zelcius outzide...

I had my 20 degrees mind-fix on:

...proppink up my drawink board...

What can one do, being born Israeli? Should we be neutered?

Hi Yuval,

Indeed it was very cold, Check the Somerset Weather for the 9th January 1885, ten feet snow drifts, I mentioned Poosey Bygott-Webb, earlier on this thread. She was a good friend of my Mother, long ago, Poosey's Son Benedict is a Priest, we were training Bullocks to undertake forestry work, and also building 'Ledge' Caravans. Folk like them in their gardens for the kids to play in. Benedict had invited his first cousin Henrietta McFall down to Somerset, to stop her from going off to Florence with James Moores's Sister, who is now the wife of Michael White, the Theatre Producer.

They had been before, and had been put up free of charge at Europe's most expensive Bordello/Knocking Shop. Naturally they were just there to Sketch and Paint, following in the Tradition of Toulouse Lautrec. Very Expressionist! I pity the customer who tried it on with Henrietta!....She can look after herself for sure....We played with the Bygott-Webbs and the McFall Family as Children. I can even remember baby-sitting Henrietta for hours, back on Christmas 1963.(as a child, I adored babies, Today, I can enter a Supermarket where several kids are screaming their heads of, and the noise stops the moment I enter the door. without even seeing me. They just sense something).... Benedict was restoring a large Antique Showman's Wagon, which is where Henrietta was billeted, I usually stayed in rooms above the Chapel in Kingston Saint Mary, My Aunt Lillemore Carnegie's Sister was Bursar of the Local School. Ben was called Haddock-Octopus by the Kids, or Reverend. Haddock,...Tooooooo long to explain why.....I mentioned Scot's Law, If you can't get a Priest because of just these circumstances, Henrietta had let the fire in the showmans wagon go out, she refused to relight it, and came to my caravan, a gift from some local gypsies....blah. Benedict arrived back the following morning. His own wife Sarah, was Totally shocked...."But we trusted you Alastair!".....Benedict was more sanguine, and so with little ceremony our union was formally blessed. Ben added "And do you promise to Darn his Socks?" as she refused to "Obey".... You don't often get to have a honeymoon before the wedding.

It was very funny, the night of our tryst, Henrietta needed to relieve herself, and with all this talk of marriage, I told her to use my caravan facility, but on no account my potty. actually a very good antique. Gypsy Law.....You are married for the night....Guess what the hussy did!...... "Well you better not jump over my broom-stick......Same again. My 2 and a half year old daughter Helena was with me in the caravan. For a priest, sex is only permitted for the strict purpose of procreation. not for pleasure. My wife Jo, and later Henrietta, could not understand it. Jo and I had split up, and she was pregnant with another gentleman's child and co-habiting with him, which she named Charlotte, sadly she was later a Cot-Death, R.I.P. and Bless you. She conceived again with a wonderful Lad "Stuart" Scarisbrick, after his Dad. Granddad Stan Scarisbrick was one of our UK's Top Avionics Boffins. A frequent Concorde Passenger over the pond. Stuart is is now undergoing Military Instruction. Cool..... A friend who is an assistant at our local Methodist Church in Colne, has the hand-carved frame made by my own Grandfather, I had purchased some excellent Water Colour Pencils by Cumberland Graphics, for Christmas. The entire range, and quality paper. on the morning of January 9th, it was far too cold to go out. Helena had been admiring my pencils, and my gleaming Engineering Drafting Instruments, a £2,500 set from Kern, hand made in Switzerland, a present from my brother, I had given my set away/ lent to somebody who had a greater need. (Sacred Work)...

Helena set to with gusto, when I asked her to be very careful, The Kern Compasses are amazing. They are made from Brass with a heavy Chrome Plate. The arms bend, but when closed you cant detect the elbow. "Precision engineering"....I may take my Digital camera round to photograph the painting Helena did that day. Henrietta had watched it's progress. She spent all day on it. There she is a mere child of little over two years old, producing an Art-Work, that would do credit to a Draughtsman's Finals Degree Piece. It is a Masterpiece. The piece of paper Helena worked with was cut precisely to fit Granddad's Frame......"Whacky Science" explanations required here for sure....The question has to be asked, "Are we just this body? or are we Spirit souls who inhabit this body, much like a suit of clothes? ".....Where do we come from? Christa, the child conceived, sings with the voice of an Angel, she was in the Blackburn Cathedral Choir. Someone may have a recording?....Put it up on You-Tube whatever. Henrietta's Art has progressed in leaps and bounds, if you need to ask the price, you may not be able to afford her work. What a strange world this is Yuval. Though we may never fully comprehend the Godhead, How can Infinity or even Trans-Infinity, ever be fathomed?..... But why exclude the subject from Scientific Investigation? Please let's look carefully and dispassionately at the "Evidence". That is my plea. Boy oh Boy!...Can I present a whole heap of mysterious evidence.

I know, that I am here for a purpose, A friend from Royal Signals, who is keen on astronomy, said he kept having this repeating dream. He had to remind me of the Mission.....We were here to organise the orderly collision with our neighbouring Galaxy. The Chinese word for crisis, is composed of the word's 'Danger' & 'Opportunity'.

Galactic Collisions are rare. This is why Humanity is here, it is the most amazing opportunity.

"Galactic Collisions are rare. This is why Humanity is here, it is the most amazing opportunity."

A small addenda:- Henrietta had recently split up with James Moores. His Grandfather Sir John, approved the match, but poor Henrietta McFall was badgered by foolish folk saying she was just a 'Gold-Digger'....nothing could be further from the truth.... True, James had just inherited a few billion pounds, as capital transfer is more effective if you skip a generation, but what is money after all said and done? Clogs to Clogs in three generations, is an old Lancashire expression. Great Grandchildren of the richest magnates can be shod in clogs again.

James Moores's Camberwell Art College Degree Showpiece, was a sculpture entitled "Time Machine"...."It's already been built" was my answer to him. "When?" asked James, "when the Andromeda Galaxy merges with ours, we can maneuver loads of stars into dual and even triple orbits. Two colliding stars of the right size could form a massive fast spinning "Black Hole".....Voila! we have our time machines. so that means .....they have already been built. The Dogon Tribe in Africa, speak of Extra-Terrestrials telling them about Sirius a twin star system, They need our sun to make a Triple star system.....Would we mind terribly if they borrowed it?....It's OK they said, we will organise everything for you.......We will get Yuval to put a "Wacky Science" Thread up on GlobalSpec CR4......( perhaps I made the last bit up?) or did I? time machines have interesting possibilities. When multi-billionaires get together to build them......and press hard to ensure they are built????????? Who Knows what will happen???????

Dr.Kirk Korista acknowledges his debt to Dr. Adrian Berry's book "The Iron Sun" .....More from the Twilight Zone later folks! Enjoy.

If you ever write an autobiography Alastair , may I subscribe for a copy ? I am not being in the least bit facetious , you have a stack of pretty amazing events to relate . Your openness is a complete contrast to my own secretive ( now that's a funny word - I once saw a hilarious clip with an American actress earnestly asking the hunk why he was being so secreetive ! ROFLHO ) nature . All the many threads are far too varied for me to collect - it end up like trying to spot an Okapi in a Chernobyl forest. Please do one day , it would be a fascinating read - a fantasia of life art science etc

New Scientist article: "NEW UNIVERSES WILL BE BORN FROM OURS "

Well then, that's what we are here for, let's get on with it. Universes just don't grow un trees you know, they have to be constructed, and to do that, you have to collide the odd Galaxy now and again....... The auto-biog can wait Kris.....we have work to do....... now which Universe should come after G321A767U456R980A345N676/GA

A joke for Charles and Henry Ford. (They will get it straight away)

Am I right in thinking the motivation here was to reach the USA ? It's astonishing for it's time - Imagine if Mitchell had tried to Persuade the Brits of something like this .Not a chance.

Don't wail. The British had plenty to their credit, and still do. Not only adopted, but also being inspired by.

And this quote is only one example of many. Don't wail.

R.I.P. Dear Air Commodore Larson, His Brother was one of my best friends in Tunbridge Wells. All due to a crack in a fuel guage casting. Strangely, I was annointed by Ron Bissett, who was as he described it, once "God" or CEO of Lucas Castings in Burnley.

You might just get me going , no shortage of ideas here - just a shortage of savvy to use them and the brilliant minds that exist . The list of British hero's is as long as you could imagine . Sadly a lot of them end up dead , and often due to suicide .

How about this for starting an argument with American friends : 'RSA' was developed in the UK , and perhaps the Computer was, and maybe the Internet too. Ohh What have I done ! (Don't tell anyone this - I might be challenged to back it up . )

waaaaaaaah

Still , the art of winning is to let the other guy think he's won . Kudos isn't bankable.

Hey , I'm coming over all sinister. let me lighten up.

Aaah.

I've just done something with my right hand that I can't do with the left.

?

NO YUVAL don't go there ! You know full well I was merely scratching my left elbow.

The ability to realise invention is economical, not intellectual, 'nuf-said.

I would say, that an inventor could invent with a piece of used chewing gum, I did that myself.....It's amazing what you can separate with gums. Check out Cennino D'Andrea Cennino "Il Libro Del Arte".....for the formula to separate pure blue Ultra-Marine Pigment, from the Feldspathoid Semi-Precious Gemstone Lapis Lazuli. What is more, grade it into different shades of blue, even a little violet.

Imagine a grey block of granite, and sorting it into grades from white to black, after crushing it. All Clay is, is weathered granite. sorting white from black, might have commercial applications? Just mix the crushed pigment with old used chewing gum, and kneed the pigmented gum under water with a drop of liquid soap....voila!

The invention is often the cheap bit of the process.

I like the idea of separating material as a starting point for a would be inventor . My weekend reading included separating salt and pepper with a comb, and counting a multitude of fish in a pond by releasing a marked sample of interlopers.

http://www.exo.net/~pauld/activities/sweden/spoonrattleback.html

That'll teach you to let Uri Geller loose .

Great link Kris, Thanks, the kids will love it.

Even better, as food grade Stainless Steel is also a Shape Memory Metal, after bending the spoon into that shape, follow the procedure of heat-treatment recommended for that steel, It's the military transformations we need at the Austentitic/Martensitic transition point....blah

Then bend the spoon back into place, and go round telling everyone you have even more magic powers than Uri Geller. Only a dishonest magician refuses to admit it's done with science not actual magic.

I can't resist - '..juss like that !'

(ref Tommy Cooper for non Brits )

Elsewhere there was a thread on Science for kids , but I think they sort of missed the point . A good experiment for kids needs a WOW ! factor , and some easily simplified explanation to encourage. Even 'no explanation known' is good. I have read some great anecdotes of childhood science on cr4 - they could really do with collating . This looks interesting :

http://www.spartechsoftware.com/reeko/

Another cool link Kris. well done. We might get a few interested students browsing through this thread?.

I may need my cloak - The snootier members of cr4 may want to lynch me for tempting 'lesser' mortals here.

My response will be a la Clerk Gable ; "Frankly my dear..."

The bugger is the subject to an endless stream of jokes here:

"The difference between me and Geller is that I manage to bend all of my spoons", etc. etc...

A bit of light relief, helps a lot, when discussing the most serious topics Yuval. Spoon-Bending/AKA Austentitic-Martensitic Military Transformations, (as opposed to sloppy Civilian Transformations as you get in the crowd watching the change of Guards at Buckingham Palace) is a very important topic. Circa 1983/4 I spoke with Dr. Tom Duereg, at Cambridge Metallurgy Dept. He lamented that the "Metal Fatigue" problem might never be solved....residual eutectic alloys that allow the stacked metallic-crystals to remember their spacial position, (Look at a brand new Dustbin, and see the lovely Zinc Crystals) tend to be weak. Designing Shape Memory Metal, is one of the most fun applied mathematical challenges there are. The rules of the game are quite simple. and you can model your postulations with "Butter/Margarine & Plasticine." If ever they sort it...perhaps they have....(A) we get a Bicycle Chain, that will take you up hill just by heating it one side. (B) Avionics Etc. will have a useful material to play with.

Well, there was this known case here, from the fifties, that a fourteen years-old drank from a jug containing agriculture alkali pestesiser, immediately started to convulse, when another farmer rushed to force-feed him some nicotel-acid, another lethal pestesiser, until the convulsions stopped, life saved, to later recover from inevitable annefelactic shock

If? The sweet Gentleman, Mr. Robert Matano, is still in the "Land of the ALIVE?"

Be my guest, Go to his "GALU" plot, dine on the most ezquisite (I'm Dyslexic, remember) Seafood>>>>>> at Robinson Crusoe's Restaurant, next door (Robert was Secretary of KANU) drink from the well, .....Ahem?///say no more......and have a wonderful HOLY-Day

P.S. The mosquitoes love to play, "Blow-me-away".....just let them approach to your lips......then.....blow them away....they will return........many times.......but let them bite you after the "third"....Cosmic number.......Time.

Good Health!

P.S. Plot W3 (the crazey cartographer arrannged every plot to be a precise "Football Pitch" is an alternative venue, Alter-Alternative is Twiga Lodge, where JFK Jr. and myself & company played "Clay Noses".....Photographs still undeveloped, ....if they come out??????? I will post them here> on CR4.?????????

Mind you, Eliminating the load of you might be a more practical solution.

So you "Won" did you?

Bank your "KUDOS" .....C.I.A. & D.I.A. and check out what small change you get!

Only just, just just.......in time. Caveat! Plase do NOT!..repeat...NOT.....Repeat....NOT....delete....my Photo-Album.

Body of post: "...The yoga system is especially difficult for this age. In the Srimad-Bhagavatam we understand that yoga means to concentrate one's attention on the Superself, Visnu. He is situated in your heart. And, in order to concentrate your attention, you have to control the senses. The senses are working just like infuriated horses. If you cannot control the horses of your carriage, it will be dangerous. Just imagine that you are seated in a carriage and your horses are so furious that they are dragging you to hell. Then what is your position? The yoga system means to control these senses. The senses are also compared to serpents: The serpent does not know who is its friend and who is its enemy. It bites anyone. And, as soon as the serpent bites, the result is death. Similarly, if the uncontrolled senses work in their own way, then you should know that you are in a dangerous position..."

Hell is where the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is constantly in attendance. Arjuna, was lead there by an "untouchable ....dog.....that would not leave him, when he went to quit his material body.....Arjuna was astonished to find "Heaven" populated by all his "Demoniac" adversaries......The "DOG"....lead him to where the supreme personality of Godhead constantly resided......Cruel Hell!.....Arjuna obtained transcendental realisation in the instant he beheld his Beloved.....The doggy wagged his tail. ( Conclusion to Srimad Mahabharata).....It's best to read the end of a book first,.....Unless it's a "Who-dun-it" Dr. Tommy GOuranga (Gauranga is the English spelling) His post, I posted on trust immediately as "TIME" is not to be wasted, reading it etc. we can do that later.....bone fide is "BONE FIDE" after all!.......Be happy!)

Those material universes?.....Gosh!.....That many, eh!....what a lot!.....better get cracking.

I borrowed this from svengali on some other thread and fealt it worth copying here.

http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/unwork.htm

Fantastic find Kris !

I am about to post it to just about every Pro I know. (OK, I know a few Pro-fessors as well) "Frankly my dear......" (1858 Canadian Club started blending their Whiskey, there were a few inches left in the bottle last night, and I was playing a tune, by blowing over the top....Shaman Art Stuff.....needed some creative inspiration)

Well, I just could not get the right note, ....first I drunk a little too much.....add water.....etc....Then I just got Drunk.....It had been offered, so Aurovedic Dr. Tommy Gauranga should forgive me. "Pani" is Sanskrit for water, as his Acharia at the Recent Gauranga Festival explained to the Audience, and "Toyam" is Sanskrit for "Liquid" which may be offered in emergency, You can't get drunk chanting Guinness Guinness Guinness, but you can Chanting Gauranga Gauranga Gauranga. I know, I have done it.....I wonder Why?

Whacky Science requires an explanation for that, Self Hypnosis? Mmmmmmm?

There are some astonishingly good links dotted around cr4 - searching key words doesn't work that well , so I occasionally amuse myself by taking a lucky dip and scanning a ridiculously off-beat topic.

I had surmised that last night was an enjoyable evening from the posting times !

A pastime I much favour when the situation allows is trying to resolve the 'glass half empty/glass half full' debate . It's beauty is that multiple experiments can be conducted with a huge variety of liquid. In my youth the favoured test fluid was copious quantities of 'broon' (as they say in Newcastle). Middle aged spread , and a growing dislike of spit and sawdust convinced me to try more refined technique.My liking for Scotland is no coincidence .. A girlfriend of long ago , had the most amazing take on the conundrum which was demonstrated with creme-de-menthe.

I went out on an RMPTA (we are still in cadre) mission last night, and on the way back popped into my local. Karen a Local School Science Teacher was just going in. She is very nice, and has two lovely girls that I have watched grow up. One of them has Film Star Looks. I am sure she would to read this.

Well the demonstration required three half pints of Guinness. Which came to Three pounds something or other...... I placed a £2 coin, a £1 coin, a 50 pence coin, a 10 pence coin on the bar counter. Then told the barman, "Oh Dear! I seem to be a few pence short, never mind, you can put it on my plastic....."

The Cotton Tree barman said:- "Sorry Sir, the card machine is out of order at the moment"

So I said:- "Oh look, watch that £2 Coin.....oooooh loook, it's turning into two £2 pound coins"

The barman looked slightly amazed, so did the rest of the guests at the bar, and he took the money and gave me back some change. I pocketed the £1coin the 50 p the 10p & the change.

Then I said:- "Well what's wrong folks, we all know this is Pendle Witch Country.."

Guinness Guinness Guinness....That's the magic spell.

I just went halves with the bar at the restaurant at the end of the universe. cool.

Barmen must hate Derren Brown. At the weekend I was prowling a boot-sale with Luke and picked up a great children's book (for myself of course ) . Later on I was able to catch (the normally sharp) Frau Trudy with this classic;

A) In the Disney animated film what was the name of the girl who befriends the seven dwarfs ?

B) What colour is ivory ?

C) What do cows drink ?

'Milk' - WRONG ! ROFLHO

I have stack left to let slip gradually.

Nearly forgot - something I mentioned earlier (and can't remember why );

I think the scrolling spoils this , oh well.

Hocus Pocus from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hieronymus_Bosch 's paint brush.

I can see we might be straying into "Arty-Farty" territory, "The Doors of Perception" Eh? Kris,.......Mmmmmm "Wacky Science" in Technicolour. King Louis-Philippe metamorphosed into a 'pear' ....."Seeing is Believing" they say. Wishful seeing is another phenomenon.......£2 coins you can bank! they don't accept funny money there. I shall have to be careful with that £2 coin trick, it's not the first time, and they might start to ask me to do it again and again and again. "Temporary Suspension of Consciousness" is one rational explanation. The whole bar wakes up.....abracadabra.....another coin/whatever. Handy for a Royal Military Police Officer, that trick. would you not say. Do it to an entire football crowd, pick all their pockets, and put the ball in the net as well. fuse the CCTV etc, nobody would be the wiser. a few folk might notice something spooky. Mmmmmmm or a more "Wacky Explanation"......Mmmmmm.... That requires a bit of a long post. Take a look at the "Wacky Saddle"/Corkscrew Graph, Now then, "What shape is the Universe?" Funny how the trick only works with £2 coins?

Read Fritjof Capra "The Tao of Physics" to get acquainted with the concepts involved.

Cross-reference with Professor Sir Ernst Gombrich O.M. C.B.E. especially "Art & Illusion"......Mmmmm,

There are five versions of Hieronymous Bosch's conjurer, it was a good seller. Scholars can't agree as to which one was the first. Notice "The Monk at far right, what is he doing with the rich man's purse?.....Call the Sergeant of the Peace!....This painting is one of a series, later on you see the monk imprisoned.

Engraved on the painting are the words (translated) ""The world, we are told, is full of deceivers who succeed with all kinds of tricks, in making us spit wonders (a frog comes out of the rich man's mouth) onto table tops, trust them not, it says, for when you lose your purse, you will regret it.

"The Conjurer" in Greek mythology, is Hermes, the messenger between this world and the gods. Take care, some exceptionally few conjurers may be the genuine article?

Those Bosch and Bruegel pictures have a strange draw to them , maybe because even non art scholars like me can easily see there is more meaning going on than pretty brush work. A golden age of metaphor and all that. I like The Garden of Earthly Delights (think that's the name ) -what is that Kangaroo like thing doing there ? It sends my eyebrows into overdrive.Then there's that Madonna with child (+ 'helicopter') . Who is conning who in George da la Tours 'The Cheat with the Ace of Diamonds' ? It's great to hear a real expert go into huge explanation about just one picture (makes a trip to the National Gallery much more interesting if I eavesdrop). Some picture are just enjoyable on a primal level without even looking for all the explanation behind them . How I mourned the demise of gate-fold LP's. A favourite 'unwinder' of mine is 'Lost' by Camel.

http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20040403/mathtrek.asp

Quote:- " Watch and be amazed as we bring to life eccentric and even intricate perpetual motion machines that have remained steadfastly unmoving since their inception. Marvel at the ingenuity of the human mind, as it reinvents the square wheel in all of its possible variations. Exercise your mind to puzzle out exactly why they don't work as the inventors intended. Oh yes?

Good Animation with the link.

It might find a home at CentreParcs . I have a current interest in cycloids (there's no explanation for some of my interest ) and have long dreamt of a bike that has a cycloid 'wheel' ( a more evolved 50p bit ). It has no centre to speak of which is a problem , but there must be some way (even if it becomes a disguised roller). On a funnier note , a TV show attempted to find the best lock for a push-bike - my favourite was handle bars that could be quickly re-adjusted to reverse the steering action (simple double mounting with a reversing cog). Hilarious result.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oq1hh_rvZxs&mode=related&search=

An appeal from a fella attempting to test the "Steorn" over-unity claim.

Quote "HELP! somebody, I can't figure out what is going on here, I hav'nt got a clue?"

Sounds like he is in trouble. Yuval asked for Videos, this one looks like fun.

Many thanks Kris, for this-here-perfect-for-the-thread-link.

I love it dearly, and will forward it to my friends, that is, if I have any.

Hi Kris, fascinating stuff, From Serbia Eh!.....Gosh.....and what is more mined by Rio Tinto (Zinc) that's a Firm connected to Lord Clitheroe, up this neck of the woods. Ribble Constituency....Where Lord Townley uncovered all that Roman Loot.

Nigel Evans MP, is their Parliamentary Representative, We all know that Tony Blair is actually "Superman"...... I think this find should be put in the record of 'Members' interests. Nigel is MP for Henrietta, and two of my children "Christa & Harry" Mmmmm?

Something is afoot, and no mistake. (Just helping our friend calibrate his meter)

EVANS, Nigel (Ribble Valley)
2. Remunerated employment, office, profession etc
Owner of a retail convenience store in Swansea.
4. Sponsorship or financial or material support
Donations to my constituency party received from:
Lord Clitheroe
Thwaites Brewery
(Registered 13 September 2005)
6. Overseas visits
3-7 January 2005, to Jordan to meet senior Government ministers and others, paid for by the
Jordanian Government. (Registered 10 January 2005)

King Peter of Serbia with President Roosevelt

James Cecil Scott Moores, resided at W46th Street NY.NY.10010, His Dog-n-Bone in the Big Apple was 001 212 725 1017.....Let's give it a try. .....(Horizon Mailbox, His tag, is "Telepathic Communicator") I think he should be informed of this recent development......Now as it just happens, ....... There is a strong connection here.

Our Sceptic needs to make sure his "Wacky Science" "Malarkey-Meter" is set to the correct attenuation......Myself I would set it to maximum sensitivity.

Then go to the Official Website above, and phone up Crown Prince Alexander's Secretary. Ask for Deacon George, or Father Radomir Kostic, During the terrible 1999 Destruction of Toto's Library, http://www.teslasociety.com/fresco.htm

And all that useful information from Tesla, as Carl Sagan remarked, destruction of Libraries and Historical Monuments, I might add, is a very serious crime. Nearly every monastery listed above was trashed.

On a lighter note, Claridges Hotel http://www.claridges.co.uk/home/home.asp next door to The United States Embassy, was where Crown Prince Alexander was born. Winston Churchill had to ask for a special dispensation, that The Royal Suite, be declared Serbian Territory...Otherwise, the wee bairn could not inherit the Crown. My best man's Grandmother Lady Aileen Plunket retained it as her London Pad....Guinness Guinness Guinness.......Better invoke the magic spell...... That should test the 'malarkey-meter' I love a challenge. Don't you Kris?...Tee Hee, so did Aileen.

Alastair -

I tried the magic incantation - "Guinness, Guinness, Guinness" - but accidentally dropped the Malarkey-Meter into the brew and am now defenceless until it dries out...

Guinness is all very well in theory, and the visual effect of the white collar on the opaque darkness is unsurpassed, but for drinking I greatly prefer the local hefeweizen brewed just up the road from my office.

Here's a "Wacky Science" question that's been bugging me for years.

Every equinox (vernal and autumnal) I have people telling me about balancing eggs. There seems to be widespread belief that one can balance an egg on end only at the equinox. Everybody has a brother, cousin, or friend who has "tested it and found it to be true." (Haven't tried it myself.)

I can't imagine any scientific basis for this. Perhaps the equinox is the only time that anyone ever tries to balance an egg on end?

A surf on net, reveals that it may originate with an old Chinese custom, Eggs are balanced only on the vernal or spring equinox, a ceremony to celebrate the start of fertility, The World set to rights once again. Only on the spring equinox, will the magic work. you can balance an egg any day of the year, but good fortune to those who balance one on the most auspicious day.

It may be completely foolish, but I loved the idea, even if it has no strings attached to reality.

I just vision an egg balanced by the equinox, and melt on-the-spot.

, AstroNut, for the idea, as-is.