Make sure your "Malarkey-Meter" has overload protection.. You need to make suitable enquires at suitable places of reference. Here-say is just Here-say, direct testimony is allowed as evidence in a court of law. Somebody may rely upon it to save their life. Victoria Mary of Teck would not be amused, they were as the expression goes a very straight talking as well as 'straight laced' society. The Little Lady seated next to the Great Seal of Scotland, "Amelia" might get "Baaba" AKA His Grace the Duke and President of the Amateur Boxing Association(1959-73) to invite you to Scotland, and allow you to "Calibrate" that interesting meter of yours. You will find a few photographs inscribed "From Aunty May"......and a lot more besides.

For a sterner "Look" From somebody who "Did not suffer fools gladly" I will post up a few more portraits. A Senior KCVO for instance. Presidents will tremble in their boots. make no mistake.

I suspect that the aforesaid Malarkey-Meter is now redundant , heads will be scratched looking for an attachment point whilst feet will be shuffled questioning whether digital or analogue is appropriate. I'll just scuttle from node to node on the 3D spiders web (which is more fun as you can get from x to y to z with far more options and fun).

{(x + y)/2}^2 = (x^2 + y^2 + 2.xy)/4

{(x + y)/2}^2 - xy = {(x = y)/2 - x}^2

{(x = y)/2}^2 = Ditto + xy.

Mmmm? Homework for a "301" Darts Champ. "501" Next

Thanks for jogging me Alastair - sooo much to do.

Alastair -

That "strait-laced" lady didn't even have the benefit of Photo-Shop! My ribs ache in sympathy. I need a Berliner.

Best regards to the Lady Amelia!

Hi AstroNut, The costume may have come from "Armour on Horseback" Gird your loins, so to speak. Heavy armour plus constant jolting from big Gee Gee = Back-Ache from hell. Also vital organs need to be tucked away under deflecting breastplate/whatever.

The Ladies adopted the fashion from the blokes. As it required maids to attend to your dressing, it conveyed social status, much the same way that a well mowed lawn gave the impression you owned livestock. Animal studies have revealed that, attraction between male and female is at a very primitive level of the brain. Some men are still attracted to women with photo-shop enhanced mammary glands that defy all reason or logic, A slim waist would indicate to a suitor, that the Lady was "available" and not spoken for. The same might apply?

Personally, I rather like the fashion, if tasteful and moderate. I doubt the fashion will entirely disappear, it's been going now for thousands of years. The BBC have just started a 49 DVD collection of their entire Classic Drama Productions over the years. A Collectors Set. It might be interesting to collate fashion and social mores over the years. Plot a graph perhaps with national income/whatever. Times of deprivation often herald out tight waists, and herald in less restrictive apparel, Research needed and doubtless already done.

Hi AstroNut,

There are two ways of going about "checking" a formula, such as I have just described to Kris our "301" Dart's Champ Guru,

One way is to get "Brain-Ache"

Another is the "Suck-it-n-See" method, Try 311 & 911 for the values of "x" & "y".

Then figure out "what it all might mean"???

Sorry, you've lost me here!

The second and third equations include this term: (x=y)
Left parenthesis, X, equality sign, Y, right parenthesis

Is my browser displaying that correctly? If so, I admit defeat. What does it mean?

Clicky-t-Click, Commodore David White RN OBE, style,

(He was Deputy Director of Operations for Kosovo & Director of Operations for both Afghanistan & the Gulf)

You could be $626,000 the richer, if Kris get's there first?

Is "Fortran" still useful today?

David Knocker, is I believe, very much alive and well today, and in full command of his senses, etc. So may I pass on his regards to you, on his behalf.

James Bond stuff, Q music...............?

x plus y all over two, all squared = x plus y all over two minus x, all squared, plus xy.

Two similar rectangles, when the product of their respective dimensions are multiplied together, approximate to a square. the remainder allows us to determine, or rather "factorise" a large dual-prime composite number, and so if we are very naughty, empty every person on the planet's bank account, or read silly cyphered messages sent with "pretty damn poor security" over the internet. That's what it means AstroNut.

Sorry David, correction, Rear Admiral Knocker...oops RN. OBE etc.

Message from "Knocker".... is your name "Tim" by any chance?

It's an exciting variation of the Game of Chess, Known in the Royal Navy as, Dead Man's Chest....or "Yo Ho Ho" .........Ghost Chess to land-Lubbers like me. A player is allowed by the rules of the game to absent a Knight, or a Queen. After so many moves an extra "Knight" may enter the fray. But the rules stipulate you reveal the invisible moves you made to take an opponent's piece.

= = +, It's supposed to give you brain-ache! And my " + " sign button & my " = " button agree that I am dyslexic and going half blind.

My stutter, has improved, over time, but not the dyslexia. Both are at their worst when I am nervous. At College if one got a single derivation of a formula/whatever wrong, then you had to climb the steeple and put your 'potty'/ whatever on the top.

The practice is banned at the University of Saint Andrews, after my Great great etc Grandfather The Earl, later Duke, of Montrose attempting to shoot down a similar forfeit, ......he had taught the nonsense, that a College chum was required to place the forfeit up.....Montrose should not have been so lazy, and just climbed up himself. ..... One of the many Arrows that missed, did not miss the Chancellor??? of the Universities Red felt hat, on the other side. I believe, but have not seen a pierced had, carved on a bench/wherever, said to be Montrose's farewell signature.

My Uncle John, told me that I was "excused" paying the forfeits, as I might either end up in Hospital, or get no work done. Oxford still permits this tom-foolery.

Whew, thanks for explaining the equality sign... I lost a bit of sleep last night pondering whether I had forgotten some peculiar mathematical notation from my College classes so long ago! (No steeple climbing allowed at Northwestern. Oh, well.)

Speaking of sleep: You were posting along at a good clip past 7 P.M. Chicago time, but you're in Scotland. When do you SLEEP, man??

When do you SLEEP, man??

Thanks AstroNut, I will ask the Rear Admiral, whether the bloke that did the "Wacky Science" on Royal Navy "Watch-Rostas" was a notorious insomniac, and so allowed excessive "BIAS" into his calculations. I might just scan it, and post it up here for all of you to commiserate with me....David's permission granted of course!

Just to let you know I hadn't forgotten this. To many diversions , Lamb-ing season etc etc etc (said like Yul Bryner in The King and I , think thats the title). I am still looking at this.I iterated 78 times for fun , and have since been a bit diverted (hey , that rhymes - '78 open the gate' as a bingo call ). I may go musical today

http://www.carols.org.uk/the_twelve_days_of_christmas.htm

Some modification though - ahem, music maestro please

"On the first day of Krismas , A Carnegie said to me....

.....

.....

....

and a Pollard in a pear tree "

The middle does need filling in somewhat (!) , but the scribe is slowly in progress.

Damn the lambs , I'm diverted again ( a small present just crossed my mind.) Back soon. My rhyming crimes , will have to stop ( force of habit , for many a year Luke and I have made up rhyming nonsense as a word game I thought up to further his comprehension of a confusing world , with humour of course)

There is a good page by this chap who sounds like a thoroughly nice person. It caught my eye because of his interest in IT , although that is secondary to my respect for him. I just couldn't see the page I had before ( double screen length with a pic of Friar D on a bench I think). I'm sure you will enjoy .

http://www.siena.edu/tamburello/

Hope you liked. I did ,and I'm not even in the habit (I'm sure they're not called that , but it works better than robe or whatever )

and the batsman said, "Blimey! that a bit of the googly!"

What the heck are you guys talking about?!

That'll teach you to be looking the other way ! Didn't you know the Brits congregate here to talk riddles in Metaphor .Ha ha hee heee heee.! It does make sense , honest , but you have to follow it through (all over the place ) and has a tendency to go ever so slightly off topic. You must be in the early hours - it could all be a bad dream , bought on by the curse of cr4 addiction vermin. Your feeling sleeepy , your eyes are tiiiiered , relaaaax , let your heead rolllll , sleeep

<<shh everyone , he's sleeping now >>

MEMO:ATTN BEAR COMMAND

URGENT /TOP COVER -EYES ONLY

THE RAT IS IN THE BARREL STOP
DEPLOY DALEKS STOP
RETURN 04:25:30

LEGS 11 STOP COPY STOP

Nice one . Well , nice 11 I suppose. That'll spice things up for the furry one when he returns. The bear is ace - thats what I call a welcome. Did you ever see the Fawlty Towers episode with the Moose Head . My head nearly fell on the floor.

Everyone at CR4 is welcome to stay at "Carnegie Towers" (Just place your visitors card on the Bear' Tray when you arrive, or leave)

33 Claverley Street, Royal Tunbridge Wells, Kent. had more Commedy Awards framed on the wall, that there was wall-space. Sony's etc. BBC Radio 4 "Radio Active HQ"...another tale 4 another time. (Mike Fenton-Stevens, Hugs-n-kisses 2 the lady wife-n-kids?)

Basil (sarcastically): Shall I get you the wine list?
Mr Carnegie: Mr Fawlty?
Basil: Mister? Oh Please, call me waiter. Look, I'll go and get a chair and then you can really tuck in — there's some stuff in the bin you might like, potato peelings, cold rice pudding, that sort of thing — not exactly haute cuisine but it'll certainly fill you up. Ah Sybil, may I introduce you to the gentleman who's just opened the self-service department here… Mr …?
Mr Carnegie: Carnegie.
Basil: Mr Carnegie the scavenger gourmet from…?
Mr Carnegie: The Public Health Department.

http://www.cottageguide.co.uk/kinnairdcastle/frameset.html

Let's all kick around Manuel!

Cleese lost much of his lustre tho this manuel mongrel, who was the real star here in Israel, in the eighties, that is.

Thanks Yuval, now we come to the "Wackiest Science" of all; The Science/Art of Comedy. Make no mistake, it is a difficult science to learn. Mike Fenton-Stevens started out with Cambridge Footlights Theatre. Every comic has died many times on stage. Yuval, If you have not yet seen both versions of Mell Brooks "The Producers", you have missed a treat.

Manuel was the star of the show, the hapless underdog. Most DVDs now have commentaries by the Director added as a bonus. Matthew Broderick who played the part of the 'down on his luck accountant' acknowledges that he learnt so much from Mell, about timing and posture etc. Mike Fenton-Stevens, often spent days and days, with retake after retake on just a single clip. perhaps only thirty seconds. Then there is one magical ingredient....you just have to pray for it....GRACE....To illustrate my point, A gift from a Brother sent by email to the "Jail Bird" clip I sent him:-

Exellent brother. Heres a laugh.. Brother Savage

Comedy is the most serious subject of them all. "Dr. Strangelove" bear in mind, Secretary of Defence Robert "Strange" McNamara, had a gung- ho General Known in the Film as General Jack D. Ripper.

Sadly General Curtis LeMay, held the opinion, that Hiroshima and Nagasaki, were just the tip of the iceberg. That eventually mankind would engage in a Global Conflict yet again. It is mere speculation on my part, but listening to my mentors over the years, Israel itself may have been allowed form again, with the express purpose of finishing "Unfinished Business".....Business started by Adolf Hitler. Before Jews returned to Israel, Palestine was a desolate wilderness, with practically no infrastructure at all.

These are the people I have referred to as M...F...F-Wits. Crazy zealot bible-thumping bigots, who are so steeped in ignorance of scriptural injunction, that they believe a second Nuclear Holocaust would please G-d??? These are the prophesied forces of the Anti-Christ. The only thing to do, is call the Police. and have them arrested. Arrested means "stopped in their tracks" The Wacky Science of Comedy, is just part of a Police Officer's Arsenal. My Father did not laugh when my mum died, (the storey is too horrific to relate) Dad just carried on with his duty, as a Police Officer. within a week he was dead too. (my lips are sealed)

If you want to "Sober Up" Juval, read this:-

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/UN/herzogsp.html

Quote:-

The vicious diatribes on Zionism voiced here by Arab delegates may give this Assembly the wrong impression that while the rest of the world supported the Jewish national liberation movement the Arab world was always hostile to Zionism. This is not the case. Arab leaders, cognizant of the rights of the Jewish people, fully endorsed the virtues of Zionism. Sherif Hussein, the leader of the Arab world during World War I, welcomed the return of the Jews to Palestine. His son, Emir Feisal, who represented the Arab world in the Paris Peace Conference, had this to say about Zionism:

"We Arabs, especially the educated among us, look with deepest sympathy on the Zionist movement.... We will wish the Jews a hearty welcome home.... We are working together for a reformed and revised Near East, and our two movements complement one another. The movement is national and not imperialistic. There is room in Syria for us both. Indeed, I think that neither can be a success without the other."

TAKE CARE...Alastair.

I am keeping out of this one because it is way too depressing , and is likely to attract weirdo's scanning for key -words who will rant and rave , and end up getting large chunks of this thread deleted . This certainly happens on cr4 - I have seen it. You are both admirable in your ability to convey meaning about important issues , but I fear the weasels out on the web will contrive to silence such a worthy discussion - another arrow in their crooked bow is to prevent discourse. Sad , but true.

"brahmananda bhramite kona bhagyavan jiva guru-krsna-prasade paya bhakti-lata-bija" (Cc Madhya 19.151)

Don't fret, Kris.

If the "foreign sounding stuff seems incomprehensible, one word should put you at ease at least, "Geets up reet urley"....bhakti-lata-bija...is the seed that will be planted, even if the entire thread is ploughed up. They will have stumbled onto holy ground, The Monty Python Film "Life of Brian" was just such holy ground. A sugared pill...Just cut-n-paste the above quote to your search engine, The way that Sanskrit is written, allows for myriad interpretations, in the same way that Hebrew scriptures can as well. I am not a Scholar of either Sanskrit or Hebrew, but I am impressed by those that are. Text 65 of Bhagavad Gita, explains what the word 'prasade' means. "The causeless mercy of the Lord"

"prasanna-cetasah hi asu" ; of the happy-minded ...he..certainly...asu...very soon.

A loose translation of Bhagavad Gita text 65 would be, "Don't ask me mate, I dunna know what i've done to deserve it, coz i dunna even believe in god, but somehow or other I feel very happy, and it ain't half cleared me mind of a load! happiness certainly makes you smarter."

"Cards on the Table" time...."We can't misbehave in orbit" Bulls in china shops are not welcome. Engineers are the only folk that can achieve our objectives. which are:-

To provide the most spectacular spacious and luxurious accommodation for the entire human race..... just an Otis Lift away (Commercial plug). Estate Agents will have perpetual orgasms, and so will Landscape Gardeners and Interior Designers. A Wacky Firm in Israel, has probably patented their chemical laser too soon. by the time we need a hundred thousand units shipped, the patent will have expired. I do not know the ideal altitude for this orbital space station, but it will doubtless be wider than London, and all the way round, that's over 40,000 klicks. We can opt for the General Jack D. Ripper solution, A mass cull......No thanks.

1,600,000 square klicks, 4000 inhabitants to the square kilometer. That's not too cramped. we can always make it multi-layered. like Saturn's Rings. The happier we are about it, the more intelligent we become and the sooner it happens. Period!

The Professor of Toxicology at left Dr.Paul Connett, knows just what General Curtis LeMay got up to. We also know about "A good day to bury bad news" The OJ Simpson Trial/http://www.pulitzer.org/Archive/archive.html ....."Oh dear, there is far more interesting news on the other side, why are you so interested in the official release of the report that Clinton demanded into the startling revelations by the Albuquerque Tribune Pulitzer Prize Winner. Why should you bother about looneys and niggers being injected with plutonium or anything else for that matter? And why should the Hospitals not deceived them, it was for National Security. That General Jack D. Ripper is a true Patriot....He sent Bombers over japan on fire bombing missions, how can you miss....here is a laugh, Dr. Strangelove in his fab film "The Fog of War" explains why the Bombers had to come down from a safe altitude, down to 5000 feet, roll on the floor and laugh your head off, strangelove says it was to increase accuracy....bull..it was that the newspapers back home wanted body-bags to muster public sympathy. Front Page Features on Dead Heroes and grieving families. General Ike, President of America, looking nervous, on his farewell Address to the Nation.... he spelt it all out, clear as crystal. Kennedy are an unlucky family. The Interpol preliminary report into John John's ....ahem?.....accident. makes very interesting reading. "Beware America, says President Ike, I know how the Military work, heaven help this Nation, when an incumbent of the Oval Office is not as familiar as I am......etc" (extemporised from memory)

Quote from above link:-

LeMay's first war plan, drawn up in 1949, proposed delivering "the entire stockpile of atomic bombs in a single massive attack"--dropping 133 atomic bombs on 70 cities within 30 days. By the end of his term, the SAC was on constant alert and ready to execute an all-out atomic attack at a moments notice. LeMay was SAC commander until June 1957.

LeMay was appointed Vice Chief of Staff of the United States Air Force in 1957 and Chief of Staff in 1961. As a member of the Joint Chiefs during the Cuban Missile Crisis, LeMay recommended that President John F. Kennedy send the navy and SAC to surround Cuba and if need be, "fry it." When the crisis ended peacefully, LeMay called it "the greatest defeat in our history."

Noel Twyman in Bloody Treason wrote of General LeMay's sour relationship with President Kennedy:

John Kennedy and his key people were determined to seize control of the military--a feat no president had accomplished since World War II. The chiefs resented the Kennedys and their whiz kids who had little or no experience in military command; the chiefs were accustomed to presidents who let them do their thing without meddlesome interference from politicians.

..."Dr. Strangelove" bear in mind...

Seen the triple-role Sellers version. No laughing matter. Though posed as a comedy, had a deep horror whiff to it.

...If you want to "Sober Up" Juval, read this...

Herzog is a South-African of British origin, there called "Pommy".

Immigrated to Israel in the forties, to further his former high-ranking military career, only now in the emerging IDF. Only here, most button-pushing posts were manned. So, he had to settle with the title of "IDF historian" later "Historian and spokesman".

What a let-down. Some twenty years later, weaved into the political system, got himself voted for president, a representative post here. Sorry. What a character. His son however, was an active member of government, now opposition.

There is an interesting theme here . The British cult TV star Norman Wisdom (acted parts , much like Manuel) is popular in Albania. Perhaps we all root for the underdog at heart.

I was in the middle of a nice reply , but a slight problem occurred (see below) . I haven't got a clue what I was saying. No change there then .OO-err , in case of further disruption call the UN. Check out the Earthquake progress chart on TV Alastair - it may be handy.

You like caviar vermin ? All fish have rho ,even trees do.

...What the heck are you guys talking about?! ...

Vermin, Please, allow me to ease-in you on it, as they (who?) say:

Kris id the shortest-ever made guru here, in about a month or something.

Now these two, took the "wacky" caption, to establish their own circus show here, to spread the British culture, and show-case it, web-wide (they even referred to me as "host" here, in one of their posts, happy to have been of service here, you crackpots!).

So far, they've been pretty good at it, and your "What the heck" question, is a form of a feedback for these two, to hone their spear-tip. Respect:

A man takes a walk on the side of the road, and sees another man sitting on the road-side ditch with a fishing rod, making as fishing there.

What are you doing? - asks the stroller

- Fishing, replies the sitting man- says the sitting man

- Oh yeah? how many did you catch so far? - asks the stroller

- You're the fifth by now- says the sitting man

You don't ask an entrepreneur what's his business about. You wait and dee it developing into whatever. Right?

Keep up the good work guys. I can only read with envy. British I'm not, however. Some of it I get, Some, well, I try.

Kris id the shortest-ever made guru here, in about a month or something.

A self confessed blabber mouth , and they make me look clever for it !ROFLHO

BANG ! Oh no ,I can only ROFL . Head can , but nobody to see . Wahh.

Don't worry it's the Earthquake folks - I'm still waiting for that Cray.

You're the fifth by now - Thats fine Yuval ! any prime of the form 4k+1 , because I can find it as the sum of two squares. See , even your gags delight me Yuval -you are hereby accepted as Brit for service to Kris. You can be one as well vermin cos you appreciate the same humour as well - bring your own prime though.

Hey , I'm hijacking this thread Yuval . I shall hunt another link for you to make ammends.

...Hey , I'm hijacking this thread Yuval...

You're most welcome, It proved to extend (or should I say: revive) the OP by a mile!

"All together now Clangers,":-

On the twelfth day of Christmas,
my true love sent to me
Twelve drummers drumming,
Eleven pipers piping,
Ten lords a-leaping,
Nine ladies dancing,
Eight maids a-milking,
Seven swans a-swimming,
Six geese a-laying,
Five golden rings,
Four calling birds,
Three French hens,
Two turtle doves,
And a partridge in a pear tree!

http://www.salforddiocese.org.uk/evangelisation/index.html#head

Bishop Brain, and everyone at the Lowry Gallery, send CR4 Hugs-n-Kisses.

http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/misc/obituaries/wheeler/

He had just 12 days to go. Bless Him. & Love from the William Gates Labs.

Groovy pictures .

I new there was a price to pay for being Gurufied: http://www.computerhistory.org/fellowawards/past_fellow_awards/2006_fellow_awards.html

I was only looking for worms , not status. I know, better than work all night kris

Still, that's pretty illustrious company.

"Ross the Bagpipe"

As we would call him in Bonnie Colne Lancashire.

http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/Papers/Phish-and-Chips.pdf

Go back to that Wheeler link, click on "People" and then go to Ross's Music Page.

Well Ross is the "Pipers a Piping" Guru, and as it's nearly Lunch, I reckon it should be "Fish & Ships" all round. Tomato Sauce and a dash of vinegar & a sprinkle of salt of the earth (Like Ross) on mine. Cheers.

Having trouble with those links Alastair . Today has been extremely strange in Etherville. I'll try again later.

Links now work . I've copied the pdf for later as its a bit long - looks very interesting though.The R at the end is presumably part of the trio. Ross's music page is rather looooong ! All those references - I could spend a week looking at it. Will view again some time . I am shamelessly off now since I've been on the go since 5 and suddenly realized I haven't eaten yet !

Postscript:- I have not heard back from Robert, my Member of Parliament's Man Friday/Secretary.....Gordon Prentice MP, might be a bit slow responding, these things take time to organise. Letters have to be written all over the place. Ministers and departments notified.....etc. If something is to be done properly, it must be filly documented. The Lord Jesus Christ, is King of Kings after all! Affairs must be conducted in a Regulated Way! "Reg= Royal" ...... This is serious business, not public entertainment! Watch out! Caveat.

Good, The wheels are at least "in motion", Just received this email from the A-Team (Art-Team) U.N. General Assembly Now Has Resolution To Establish United Nations Decade Of Contact & Diplomatic Relations With E.T.s
For the first time in almost 27 years, the United Nations General Assembly will be debating the issue of establishing diplomatic relations with advanced Extraterrestrial Civilizations that may now be visiting Earth.

"Please send money for furtherance of our zero-point machine."

Good Morning Ken,

And may you have a fine day, today and every day.

"Zero-Point Machine"....Eh?....Join the Queue for Sponsorship, it's hard these days to distinguish the rotten wood from the health trees?

Here is an example:-

http://www.akasha.de/~aton/ManuScript10-ETIGamma2.pdf Dr. Puharich found that "in our water electrolysis studies the curve," of each of the hyperboles "was found to intercept… at a frequency cloe to 2 = 512 hz… showed an interesting pattern of dispersion." (pp 51) This is a pure example of unity in action, for 512 hz is 8 hz cubed…It is also a whole Sierpinski triangle or Meru Prastara octave from 4 (half of 8), which is the fundamental elements we are describing in this chapter. Also from c 256 to c 512 mapped as a music cone of the equal temporing tuning scale, a perfact golden proportioned Ø spiral is made in 3D, with C-4 hz as the tip point (see Manu-Script Universal Dance 2003)
The peak "measured resonance… centered around 600 hz. In examining the side bands around this frequency," Puharich discovered that the base of the hyperbole, "was found… = 360 Hz," whilst the peak of the hyperbole "= 720 hz… Within this octave, the dispersion pattern was found to correspond to smallpeaks which closely mimicked the equal temperament scale:
D 360 Hz
1/3rd
G 480 Hz
1/3rd
600 hz
1/3rd
D 720 hz octave" Dr. Puharich found in his successful hydrogen fuel energy experiment (United States Patent no 4,394,230, Method And Apparatus For Splitting Water Molecule, July 19, 1983), that:
"The first effect felt by the water molecule is in the protons of the i (H1 [hydrogen 1]), i (H2 [hydrogen 2]) vector. These protons feel the 3.8 to 2.8 second cycling of the amplitude of the carrier frequency and its associated side bands…"
These frequencies will be covered in a moment, for they are the Meru Prastara hyperdimensional numbers of the Rg Veda…Puharich continues:
"This sets up a rotation of the proton magnetic moment which we can clearly see on the X-Y plot of an oscilloscope as a hysteresis loop figure… gives us a vivid portrayal of the Nuclear Magnetic Relaxation cycle of the proton in water.
"We have found that the characteristic NMR state, 1/T, in our experiment, is the 3rd subharmonic of 2, i.e. 0.25 secs."
(Dr. H. A. Puharich, METHOD OF SPLITTING THE WATER MOLECULE: According To The Theory Of Extremely Low Frequency (ELF) — PHONON-HYDRON AMPLIFICATION OF STIMULATED EMISSION OF RADIATION (Acronym = PHASER)
Of course when 2 is divided by 0.25 the result is 8. Thus the 1/T equation, where T = time, is hereby identified to be 8 cycles in 1 second. So any key harmonics that can trigger such a rotation of 8hz proton magnetic moment, is an essential component for biological genesis into a superconducting state, and furthermore, providing a hydro-energy source, from within the water tetrahedron, to apply the Santilli-Hadron physics 36 volts for the lightening plasma arc flow (Vortexijah coupled through the Pinoline/Tryptamin DNA/RNA intercalating molecules, in a macro-molecular
superconductive arrangement, cycling mitochondrial DNA into chains of 8 hz resonance, as a particle accelerator for elemental alchemy) — that converts water into the superior superconductor (72% of our body, by which the remaining elements are overweighed into phase-conjugate 8hz transaltion of man into Anu)….How can this be further verified, and then identified? Oxford professor's Abragam and Goldman (Nuclear Magnetism: Order and Disorder, Oxford 182, pp 41), relate that a reverse temporality phenomenon begins to occur in "Transverse magnetism" at 0.125
of a second (1.25 milli seconds). Of course 0.125 is exactly half of 0.25, and is thus the 4th subharmonic of 2. When place this fact in our T = time, cell, a fundamental result emerges: 8 cycles of 0.125 = 1 second. Thus our one H element's 1/0.125 = 8 cycle per second (8 hz NMR), which the professors term "short-term transient variation of …Ca transverse magnetization during thermal coupling…" (For much more details on this excitting time travel research, at Oxford, in 1982, and its practical implication in alchemy, healing, rejuvination, and superconductive biogenesis, see "The Magic Sandwitch" chapter of our book The Soma Conspiracy). Then how do we engage this reverse temporality, into an application that renders us into Omni-Temporal existance?
Dr Puharich found an astounding hyperbole signature appear in his water experiments during resonance (8 hz proton precession), as the sound wave stimulation caused increased coherent light emanation by the phonon key harmonics directly stimulating
photon emmission. Akin to the light body seen biogenesis throughout history (utilising the photon amplifying floating DNA inherent genetic factor). The hyperbolic geometry appearing in the dielectric medium of the water, which involves neutron dispersion, during hydrogen-1.......It goes on. A Loooooong Docment, Hype? or Reality?

Several years ago, Scientific American ran something like this in their April (April fools) issue in the mathematics section. In the article, it was stated that a frequent contributor had discovered this property and was going to use it to create more gold from an initial amount. In this case, the lower triangle was presented first!

£100 million, is a high price to pay for Tom-Foolery. I met Dr. Clarey at a Pub, next door to Matrix Studios, located next door to the British Museum. I purchased a round of best Ale, as commiseration at their loss. Dr. Clarey was not amused! The Law regarding Treasure Trove is very precise. They could have avoided the cost incurred altogether. The matter rests with the Coroner. He has to adjudicate these matters.

Treasure Trove, must be "Abandoned Treasure" indications of deliberate and precise secretion, have a profound bearing on the Coroners Verdict.

I just gave a mathematics lesson to interested parties, that was all. No April Fool.

Anybody for Beale Treasure ? My money's on Edgar Alan Poe. It's a good excuse to read the US constitution anyway . (Ive no favourite link , so ...google forth all ye who dare ). My savvy neighbour makes a regular killing on the beach with his metal detector - all those unidentifiable rings that will never be claimed (he's very conscientious about it , but those who loose such things rarely file a report on stuff with no distinguishing features )

"Correction" Dr. Clary (not ClarEy) Julian Clary will never speak to me again, and I doubt he would remember when we last spoke. His Uncle/Cousin is Director of Maps & Prints at the British Museum. They are a very Military Family.

For our American CR4 readers Check out 03:11 into this You-Tube Video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5fRGFKUXfE&mode=related&search=

Corking good link. Paul Merton (blue t shirt guys) was to appear on the Richard and Judy show. He was warned not to mention Richards shop-lifting or Judye weight problem . His opening gambit to Richard was along the lines of 'isn't it about time you stopped nicking diet books for Judy ' !

From Wiki, again:

Here, this 1230 AD contraption, it can actually be built, exhibited, and "properly" called: "Anti-Gravity Rotary Engine from the middle-ages" right?

Here's Occam's Razor: Do you honestly think it will work?

A hint: you don't really have to build one, to answer the question

Isabel Countess of Erroll, Wife of My Boss! Merlin Hay The Rt. Hon Earl of Erroll, Colonel Royal Military Police & Head of HM's Household Scotland, Lord High Constable, Knight Marshal & Butler, Arranged for her Hurricane in September 2003, (Hurricane Isabel) to include a tribute to The Pentagon.....(Queen Elizabeth II is their Landlady)

Check out:- http://www.soulsofdistortion.nl/SODA_chapter6.html

No that contraption would NOT work! but a variation at the nano-scale? perhaps?

Yes, the concept of free energy goes back a long way, well before electricity was even invented. Seems a bit silly really since a stream-driven water wheel would work fine for milling grain, and technically could be called free-energy back in those days.

".....why, back in my day son we didn't have any of this zero-point energy, magnets or electricity, all we had was a stick and a few buckets of water to make our free energy generators".

Anyone care to post a link to the oldest recorded free-energy contraption. I have a feeling it could date back as far as the great pyramids in Egypt themselves (the technology was of course lost to us however when a war broke out/sandstorm rolled in/surprise Gould attack thwarted by a time-travelling SG-1 team, and destroyed all evidence).

Dear Alastair,

Your suggested link is an hour-long lecture, let me see it and I'll come back to you, provided I'm still in my good senses.

P.S, this video can be downloaded into a google video player.

I left a message for you Yuval, Cassino is spelt Casino.....An extra "S" to emphasise the point. I left my own "Jackson Pollock" on the Google Video Comments! " Stochastic Resonance" AT&T Patent 4704622 Tunnelling Diode. (Capaso). But P.V.D.F. has been around for donkeys ears. That Piezo/Pyro Plastic has been detecting 'Brownian Motion' as an 'Electrical' output ever since it poured out of a test tube. OK fractions of a nano-watt? but 'Perpetual' all the same. Back in 1983, we had heated debates in Cambridge watering holes, all about the significance of it. Happy Days.

Brownian Rectification and Thermodynamic Processes?....Mmmmmm? Let's Go-4-It!

Wait, Alastair, Wait!... don't choke me here, one daemon at a time.

Now, Tunneling, that's some real Quantum magic!

Take the Ammoniac molecule. A pyramid of three hydrogens with a sideway put nitrogen. To maintain the molecule structure stable, the nitro must pass through the pyramid, side to side, at millions of iterations per second.

Now, here's the magic: The nitro atom-size, is as big as the whole pyramid put together. How does it go through?

Does it swallow the pyramid while going through it?

Does it shrink to near zero while going through it?

You can only grasp it, if you take into account, that a particle is a cloud of potential energy, a force-field, not a rigid object.

...A pyramid of three hydrogens...

Not really a Pyramid (It needs four corners), let's call it a triangle, then.

Sorry

...That Piezo/Pyro Plastic has been detecting 'Brownian Motion' as an 'Electrical' output ever since it poured out of a test tube...

Piezo does not convert Brownian into electrical, and even if it did, it would not break any rule, but display energy conversion as such.

Piezo converts axially directed mechanical pressure against it's lattice, to release negative charge, or suck positive, depending on the pressure's direction.

Push it repeatedly, and it produces AC. The output proportional to the mechanical force applied. Give it a bang with a mini-hammer, it will go upto 15 thou volts, enough to arc between two poles. This is of course, the familiar "bang-lighter" for kitchens or cigarettes.

But, it is a transducer: Apply current to it's axially dimensioned lattice, and it will expand or contract according to the charge, or current direction. This of course, is the piezo tweeter

...'Perpetual' all the same...

Brownian motion is not perpetual, because it's temperature-dependant, and as such, it's proportional to the amount applied, i.e, imported into the system.

From the lecture: Tesla in the 1930's "If the energy in space is kinetic, than we can find a way to use it"

Well, we do use it, when we sling-shoot a vehicle with the aid of a planet or moon's gravity, in order to conserve chemical energy of fuel boosters.

"So...", - goes the lecturer, "...this is about the basis to the concept of "zero point energy..."

Then comes the example of helium, not freezing at zero kelvin, "Hello? did you hear me - he says - there is kinetic energy at zero kelvin!" or something like that.

Zero kelvin was never reached, or known to be reached. the lowest possible temperature allowed by cosmologists is four degrees, and that is, if and when conditions allow.

He talks as if we've already been there. This sounds like a mismatch of fact and hope.

Basing a hypothesis on the assumption that helium would maintain kinetic energy at zero kelvin (if and when you've managed to introduce it to zero kelvin by some miracle), does not maintain that energy is available for free, or that you can extract any form of energy without some investment, or some energy loss at the actual extraction.

As to the "decay of physical vacuum" with his reference to Paul Dirac's mention, of locality-vacuum around charged particles.

There is no real vacuum anywhere. Even a "stretched interaction field" between remote particles is not a vacuum in the sense that potential energy is directed/converted there.

Today's QM does not really distinguish between a particles dimensions and the dimensions of it's associated fields.

In that sense alone, there is no particle in the universe which manages to escape interaction. Even as force fields (including gravity) decay relative to distance, They never decline to absolute zero.

"it's no longer the eighteenth century notion of empty space" - he said. This is reverse times reverse. In the eighteenth century they believed that space is anything but empty. It even had a medium called "Ether" to fill it with, until Michelson-Morley's experiment.

- Hey, what is all this? a serious attempt to convince that since helium has kinetic energy at the unobtainable zero kelvin, and that around Dirac's locality there is a vacuum to suck negatively charged particles, so that we should believe that endless-energy is there for the taking at no expense?

I could go on forever, and this lecture is only half-way through.

I'll see it through, with anticipation for some late-coming revelation.

This is an inappropriate mismatch of never proven assumptions, to my humble, limited, understanding.

May god forgive my Chutzpa. Jasper.

Oh, all right then. My award for the wackiest scientific development has to go hands-down to Steorn for their free energy generator.

http://www.steorn.com/

Sure, free energy devices have been done to death, but this company has a number of things going for it that really set it apart from the rest.

(1) It is an international company that accidentally discovered a free energy generator when (if I remember correctly) trying to develop a wind generator for one of their street pole-mounted camera systems.

(2) The entire project is built around Independent verification by the scientific community in general, as well as a panel made up of scientists and engineers from the community.

(3) The plan on giving the technology to the world via the internet, open-source.

(4) The site and it's content doesn't look like it was made by a 13 year old with English as his second language.

(5) Nowhere were any of the following mentioned - Tesla, Aliens, Draco, "prototype constructed out of wood and fridge magnets", "verification by friends, sister's cousin", conspiracy, world-government, any links to free-energy or alien sites or products, links to porn sites or "meet a friend" or use of slang such as ROFL, 4tunite, ur, etc by someone supposedly 62 years old with multiple degrees in science and engineering.

The site has changed a bit since stage 1, and I cannot find the original history on how the technology was accidentally discovered, or the proposal for the panel (It is noted that to actually be on the panel cost about 3000 pounds). The actual technology involves the free energy permanent magnet generator. That old chestnut.

Toungue firmly in cheek, but cheek is sometimes appropriate this "steorn.com" website??? All the 'Usual Suspects' seem to have gravitated to this amazing revelation of over-unity perpetual power. I took note of the Time Traveler from the year 2036, who by dastardly conspiracy had his 'Post' mysteriously erased. He had returned to collect a missing 'Top Secret' PC. that had some anti-virus software essential to save humanity. We are all going to???? die like flies, from a Mad Cow/ CJD/ Alzheimer's disease. Moooooo

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn10134

Alzheimer's may 'seed' itself like mad cow disease

• 19:00 21 September 2006
• NewScientist.com news service
• Roxanne Khamsi

You have all been warned,...."The End of the world is Nigh"

Now if I wanted to destroy the credibility of a genuine Over-Unity Website, I would pay good money to script-writers, to concoct crazy stuff to post up on their forum.

It works both ways. The entire world is, and has been, for millennium upon millennium, enslaved by this insane fixation on "Money". It's a con-trick of the most diabolical nature, perpetrated by the most evil scoundrels on earth. Mass hypnosis at it's most malevolent. The only solution is to show to the entire world that "You CAN get something for nothing" and that "The books do NOT have to balance" Then people will wake up from their nightmare, Trussssssssssssst in the Snake of Capitalism will have been broken. Yup! There is a lot at stake here! The cheaters are on the run. Their control is already broken by the good old Internet!

Wacky Science depends on "Wacky Philosophy" Enjoy!

...Now if I wanted to destroy the credibility of a genuine Over-Unity Website, I would pay good money to script-writers, to concoct crazy stuff to post up on their forum...

Sad, but so true

Mad Cow: The disease is a derivative of Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, which is rampant in cannibals, especially those who feed on their closest relative, such as those in Fiji Borneo and Papua.

It turns that if you feed on proteins close enough to your own genetic constitution, (just as with the cows, feeding on dead cow parts), a special protein is produced in your nervous system, to allow for mass structural-deformation of proteins, chemically resistant to drug treatment. It chemically deforms nerve proteins, to non functionality.

Note: cannibalism, the same as incest, is a natural, universal, taboo, which was so formed, by classical natural selection.

Both, are a "close-relative-mix" no-no, to avoid something called "Miotic Acceleration" which may fixate genetic pathology inside isolated populations. (Maybe, again, I misspelled it: Miotic, from Miosis)

Not always can it be avoided, and some island populations suffering from inbreeding, may indeed display such pathologies.

...those who feed on their closest relative...

Sorry, not as in "regularly feeding on their closest relatives", but instead, more like "occasionally and ceremonially eating their deceased closest relatives"

Oops: I knew I misspelled it:...Maybe, again, I misspelled it: Miotic, from Miosis)...

Should be: Meiosis of course

"Fractals", "Mandelbrot Sets" "Chaos Theory" "Strange Attractors" these were the buzz words of the end of the last millennium. If I tossed a coin a thousand times and 500 were heads, 500 tails, I would be mildly surprised as exact parity would be rare. but not all that unlikely. If on the other hand I detected a pattern, such as heads, tales, heads, tails, heads, tails, etc. for all thousand tosses, I would examine the coin carefully for magnetic/whatever influence, and suspect a joker taking the mickey.

Given any random sample, there is more likely to be a 'mismatch. than 'parity'. That is a stochastic reality. If hypothetically a nano-device/whatever can harness any force/charge/whatever independent of 'polarity' or 'spin' etc. then Brownian effects should produce a minute power output.

Put another way, That ubiquitous "Butterfly Effect" that causes Hurricanes to conveniently form 'Pentagons' at their eye, but only if named after the wife of a Magical Gentleman......and only if they flap their wings a certain way? Could the impulse to flap the wings come from minute signals caused by Brownian Motion of Air Molecules caught up in the microscopic hairs of their feathery little antennae? Itself the result of a remote Lost Tribe Amazon Shaman Priest singing a sacred song?

...Brownian effects should produce a minute power output...

And it should, and provided you found a way to harness it, use it by all means. No problems here. But, the mere Brownian movement remains temperature-dependent upon invested energy, thus, not perpetual.

The butterfly-effect to cause hurricane does not cause the hurricane, any more than the minute pin you released to let the building collapse.

It is more appropriate to say that the flutter released the hurricane, in the sense that before, a given equilibrium kept it at bay, and the butterfly disturbed this equilibrium, to release the potential energy of the hurricane, and set it in motion.

Serendipity? both are "Fractal" but one is called "Sheep" the other "Boske" (Koi Carp must surely speak Koi-ney Greek = "Feed Me")

I'd have to agree -- Steorn is one of my favorites too. Much slicker and less obviously nutty than many alternatives. But no less fraudulent -- and maybe more so, because at least with the other sites there are so many warning signs. It as if there is a universal legal requirement for free energy machines: if you are going to promote them you are required to sound like a lunatic. I think the law reads like this:

The promoter of an over unity machine must not really solely on the wackiness of the machine alone as being adequate warning to investors. Each such promoter must also passionately claim existence for at least four phenomena or conspiracies from those listed in paragraph 14.5.6 of common law RF 345.

Steorn, by failing to comply with common law RF 345, make themselves appear almost 10% legit, giving them an unfair advantage over the fraudsters who are complying with the law.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Clafqu0Xw6E&mode=related&search=

Our Late departed friend Stanley Meyer (RIP) here at full belt! If he was preaching in a tent, the crowd would be going "Hallelujah Brother!"....."Glorey Be!"

The jury is out as to whether it is Science or Non-science? His famous water powered 'Dune Buggy' poses a simple question, Water comes out of the exhaust, feed it back to the electrolysis device, and the motor will run for ever. Now put the Dune Buggy in an insulated garage/shed, and it's going to get very hot inside. The way to test these devices is not from mains supply, but by making one machine drive the other, with a generator. put both machines in an insulated room, and watch the thermometer rise, or not, as the case may be. Sorry CR4 folks for so many posts. hard to resist.

I'd have to say this video is an impressively wacky! "Pure energy"? as opposed to what? Dirty energy? Hardly a sentence goes by that doesn't contradict something I learned in chemical engineering school and physics classes. This is the first time I've heard anyone seriously propose that the jury is still out on Stanley Meyer. Everywhere I've looked, he seems to have been convicted: guilty of fraud, as charged.

Hi to all,

some comments and questions:

1. the ammonia molekule as all other existing molecules is stable because the atoms share some of the electrons together, the orbits of the electrons ( a few only) enclose two or more atoms instead of only one in a single atom.

This electron-sharing is giving rise to a binding force that is dependent on distance so it is acting like a spring, this spring can be stretched or compressed allowing the atoms to move around as if you put together masses with springs.So the nitrogen can freely pass the three hydrogens it pushes these wide apart. The model molecule will have some natural frequencies the same is true with the molecules resulting in infrared absorption at the frequencies of stretching or rotation.

2. The brownian motion to be detected by a piezo transducer: no big problem only very small signals, as the small mass of a molecule with a good velocity is giving only a small impulse the piezo signal will be very weak. That's why for this application PVDF (small mass) is better than other piezos (quartz crystal). Its easyer with capacitive sensing as the capacitive electrodes can be made much lighter.

3. Mohenjo Daro history: does anybody really believe there was a nuclear explosion 5000 years ago?

Where are the documents and publications about the finding of radioactive or other suspicious material? Which elements and which isotopes?

Where are the measurements of thermoluminescence to determine the age of the glazing? If different from original glazed ceramics this should be detectable.

What about the same fairy tale that Sodom and Gomorra has the same or similar findings, Yuval you should know more details.

4. My suggestion: be more critical, we have to have a proof of any unusual statement, a proof that is in itself possible to prove. If there is no proof then we are talking about a hypothesis.

5. The only unexplainable things I do know are:

the dark matter and energy in our universe and its origin

some medical wonders

psychology and psychotherapy including the stock exchange

the madness of humans spending a lot of money for burning food declared as biofuel including the responsible governments

the madness of humans to neglect their children (missing love and missing education)

the existence or nonexistence of god.

Most unexplainable mysteries can be explained by others that are knowledgable, or can be explained by experts that are familiar with cheating and hoax, some are explainable by scientific experts and some await an explanation because we know that we don't know really much.

This is especially true for getting a fast overview over system dynamics, this is not very well fitting our brain structure.

Despite any criticism and scepticism this is a nice thread.

RHABE

...Sodom and Gomorrah has the same or similar findings, Yuval you should know more details...

No one serious here, really think it was nuclear. It was originally a sixties hippie myth, which Erich Von Deniken later helped to disseminate, thanks to his popular film in the seventies.

Sodom is right between two tectonic plates, and more likely it was a colossal volcanic eruption, some 25.000 years ago (Paleolithic-Cro Magnon), which created the Sodom Crater with it's crest of mountains around, later filled with water from the Jordan.

Some geologists speculated in the eighties, that because of the shape of the Dead Sea, the crater was made by a two-bounce meteor impact, but no sediments were found to back it up.

Noting to be alarmed about. Nice post RHABE.

...Mohenjo Daro history: does anybody really believe there was a nuclear explosion 5000 years ago?...

This should be a legitimate question: And supposed an ancient site is found with residual radiation or suspicious isotopes, what then?

Can it be explained, correlated to natural phenomenon?

Can radio-active bodies exist in the asteroid belt? Should these exist, would they maintain these properties following the high temperature impact?

A lot of legitimate questions here, we can deal with.

Just peeked, amazing!

Hi Yuval,

all elements heavyer than helium are generated inside stars by neutron capture and fusion,

they are evaporated into space by supernova explosions

recompacted by hitting (high velocity) dark clouds or other shock waves in our galaxy

further compacted by gravity until stars and planets are formed.

So our elements above helium were once generated inside stars or in the supernova explosion of dying stars or both.

In the formation process of a new star (our sun) it is very likely that there is a more or less perfect mixing of dust as the particles are orbiting the center of gravity with different velocities. And agglomeration will not make this change.

So radioactivity will be evenly distributed unless a later process is doing some differentiation.

This can be mineral enrichment in or on our earth: some by gravity some by solution and crystallisation.So there can be radioactive mineral deposits on planets with water.

But not in the asteroid belt nor the Kuiper nor the Oorth cloud.

If an ordinary meteorite hits a natural radioactive deposit this will be redistributed either mechanically or evaporated, than mixed and recondensed.

This will totally change the composition of the radioactive material as the elements that had formed by the radioactive decay will be likely not deposited in the same regions as the radioactive elements. So this process will rejuvenate the deposit.

But it will never create the transuranic elements found in fission and fusion bomb relics.

These can be easily detected after long time (minimum 100.000years) by the radioactive decay and can be detected later by the decay products.

These I want to have analysed from any site that is claimed to be a pre 1945 nuclear explosion site.

RHABE

So, if heavy metals created by nuclear transmutation in stars, some heavy metals may have radioactive non-stable nuclei, be found in asteroids.

Was the uranium caesium rubidium etc, found here in ores, on earth's crest, are made on earth, or imported here by gravity?

Hi Yuval,

shure in asteroids will be some minor amount of radioactive material - the same amount as on earth, but on earth it is redistributed and partially concentrated.

The theary of element generation is today that in the "big bang" that made the starting point for our kosmos 13 billion years ago there was only hydrogen and helium generated.

After star formation the small ones are stable for long time and then after exhaustion get dim but not distorted.

The bigger ones exhaust the hydrogen supply, then burn the helium then the heavier elements to stop with iron and the exploding in a gigantic explosion that outshines our whole galaxy of 10 ¹¹ stars for some days.

During star burning one part of heavy elements is formed by a lot of different pathways the simplest one of adding neutrons to existing atoms.

Most of these freshly generated atoms are radioactive but as there is ample time mast will be stable after some billion years.

Burning time until explosion is ranging from a few million years up to a many billion years.

In the final explosion a lot of more heavy elements are generated.

As our sun is now around 5billion years old there was 8billion years of material formation inside other stars then supernova explosion then high velocity expansion of the remnants then mixing with other interstellar material and concentration again by shockwaves in very dilute but very fast material and then gravitational pull until a new star and its planets is formed from the dust.

As the asteroids hitting the earth all have the same age and none is known to have come from outside of our solar system all will have the same heritage of formation of our solar system.

There is alittle amount of elements formed later by the radioactive decay - uranium is decaying towards lead, we know from the isotope distribution how much.

From the transuranic elements generated in stellar explosions nothing is left over as the half life times are short in relation to the age of our solar system.

Greetings

RHABE

"Bubbles, Pauline & Capt.F.H. Farmer"

(Chairman of The Co-Operative Society India)

& 'Brevet Maj. Hon. Robert Francis Carnegie

(ADC to The Viceroy of India)

"....But it will never create the transuranic elements found in fission and fusion bomb relics.

These can be easily detected after long time (minimum 100.000years) by the radioactive decay and can be detected later by the decay products.

These I want to have analysed from any site that is claimed to be a pre 1945 nuclear explosion site."

"Sound as a Pound in the ground thinking " RHABE. Thanks!

There may be Data from the Manhattan Project Files. Surely they are "Declassified" by now?... Oppenheimer slipped the information out to students at a University of Rochester NY lecture. When asked if this 'Trinity Point' was the first Nuclear Detonation?...Openheimer responded "In recent times yes". Capt. Francis Hamilton Farmer, (Royal Artillery) informed me of the Indian Nuclear Detonations, and also how confirmation had allowed the test to go ahead, as they feared igniting the atmosphere. Both my Grandfathers met in India. and naturally I wanted to know the circumstances. I was orphaned at four and a half years old, and Bubbles & Francis became my Legal Guardians. This is something for the Historians to find out. At least they now know where to look. The Enrico Fermi / AKA Mr. Farmer and testimony from The Hon Violet Carnegie, Major Bobby's Lady Wife and my Grandmother indicate to me the hypothesis has considerable merit. When Ngobit Estate was designated a Italian P.O.W. Camp, On the first day of arrival, The Italian Officers were invited to dine, both Bobby and Violet spoke fluent Italian, Granny Choo Choo (choo Choo is Kipsigis for granny) spoke so well, none of the Officers present could believe she was not Italian born and bred. Lancia and Pirelli both returned to become Neighbours of ours, purchasing nearby ranches. After Dinner, Grandfather handed the keys to the Gun Room over to the astonished Italian Officers..."You need to shoot game for the pot, and our Totos (native African kids) are so inquisitive, you will have a constant guard!" or words in Italian to that effect....."

(Why the War Office allowed such lax security is a bit of a mystery, unless there was a hidden agenda to keep sweet with Italians like Enrico Fermi in America, very happy?...speculation I admit.)

Thanks jack of all trades,

I was rather hoping this issue would come up, the Oklo controversy caused endless heated debate back in the 1970's. "How could a nuclear reactor 'evolve'? naturally"

One theory put forward, was that when this happened nearly two billion years ago,

Discounting THIS HYPOTHESIS:- http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/rael.html

(The little green men theory, a good read all the same, no laughing allowed)

It may have been a result of microbial enrichment. we know that life began about four billion years ago, http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/2004/10.07/15-origins.html

and was fundamentally composed of very small critters, algae, etc. at that time in our history, just as we calculate isotope 'half-life' going forward, we can extrapolate backwards with 'double life' so to speak. The concentration of Fissile U235 would have been much higher.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citrobacter

Citrobacter shows the ability to accumulate uranium by building phosphate complexes, species can have concentrations of uranium in their bodies 300 times higher than in the surrounding environment......Ahah! The blighters thrive on the stuff. The non fissile U238 has a half life six and a third times longer than the fissile 235. It could have transpired that Citrobacter or related species initially concentrated the Uranium and left a sediment at the bottom of a lake, for instance, with a high concentration of Uranium. U235 being more radioactive than U238, might have added a 'selective' component to this witches brew of early microbial activity. Natural enrichment, caused by selective early necrosis of microbes that contained a higher concentration of U235, than their neighbours. The time span for this process could have been very large. bugs that fed mostly on U238 survive and remain in the microbial food chain, i.e. suspended in the lake, microbes that nosh more U235, on the other hand, tend to live shorter lives and sink back to the sediment.

Is that a "Wacky" enough pseudo-science explanation. All the rest could have been geological heating and further concentration. I myself rather fancy the 'Green Man' Theory. Their Flying Saucers had run out of fuel, so they just improvised a nuclear reactor to get them on ther way again.....

http://english.pravda.ru/science/19/94/377/13920_stones.html

Hi RHABE, #(3) Mohenjo Daro: Yes The Soviet Academy of Science and well over a billion inhabitants of India believe that a nuclear explosion took place at Mohenjo Daro. I will try to find the data sets you are looking for. I love a true Scientific Scepticism, As you so correctly state, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. With the full rigor of peer review. Thank you.

The people at Pravda may be able to assist as well, above is a 2004 feature. but I have read a better feature that named the Soviet/Indian team that collected the data. That would be of more use.

The Indian Calendar starts at this event, they have counted and accurately recorded every single day ever since. but please don't take my word, make independent enquiries. I could be pulling your leg after all. That is the Scientific and Historical Method "Check" and then "Re-Check" till "Fact" is unequivocal.

Interesting link . I wonder if those levitating stones will 'pop-up' on utube .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94KzmB2bI7s&mode=related&search=

Yes Here is an "Acoustic Levitation Chamber" Video, Enjoy

I still think the "Levitating Frog" is hard to beat. It's there as well.

Nice , once I got used to the noise . Reminds me of a documentary I saw about a guy who had an 'anti-gravity' flying disc he'd built . The thing was shown hovering , but he wasn't going to explain how . Unfortunately I don't recollect any more detail - If it comes back to me I'll post it. I got sidetracked by acoustic guitar on the link - I'm a sucker for it , especially john Martyn.

Levitating stones, reminds me of an old joke. It could become a practical reality one day. more on that later.

There was this old man clearing up his garden shed, and he came across an old rusty tin, when he started to clean it with some wire wool, the lid sprang open and out popped a huge Genie....."I am the Genie of the Tin, what is your wish oh great master?"....The old man says, "Gosh, do I get three wishes then?"....."No, I am very sorry Master, you are thinking of the great Genie of the Lamp, I'm just the Genie of the Tin, and I can only manage one wish, please don't wish for endless wishes either, they all ask for that, and I can't do it".....So the old man thinks for a while, then tells the Genie, "Me and the wife have always wanted to visit America, but she is terrified of flying and I get sea sick, please could you build a motorway bridge over the Atlantic so that we could drive there?"........"Hold on Master, that's a bit of a tall order, I did say I was only the Genie of the tin after all, can't you wish for something a little less demanding?".....So the man thinks again, then asks the Genie "Ok then, I can never fathom what my wife is thinking from one moment to the next, please tell me how her mind works?"........."Your wish is my command" responds the Genie, and disappears for quite a while, the old man waits so long, he begins to think he must have imagined the whole episode. Then suddenly the Genie reappears, and looking rather embarrassed asks the old man; "Oh Great Master, how many lanes did you want that motorway bridge"

There is a theoretical way to suspend a bridge in low orbit all round the equator with "Active Mass". enter "Space Fountain" into a search engine and see what results. Wikipedia has a good feature. Wacky Science that the Genie of the Tin might have to resort to.

I'll have to tell my wife that one later . It all reminds me of Easdale Island where they hold the world skimming champioships ( from the mainland cross The Bridge Over the Atlantic , calling at the 'honest box' gift shop and the 'house of the trousers' pub on Easdale Island ) - and if time permits go to see one of the worlds best whirlpools.A beautiful place to visit.

Have to agree with you, the acoustic guitar section is well worth a look! did you see the ditty on the pendulum motor?

Welcome to the thread Mr. Truman Brain, glad to have you aboard here are a few intriguing links, first if you like music?

http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/1998/dabby-0318.html

Quote:-

Art intersects science: Dabby creates music out of chaos

March 18, 1998

Fifteen years ago, Dr. Diana Dabby was enjoying a flourishing career as a pianist and composer, performing in New York's Weill (Carnegie) Recital Hall and abroad. Then one day she found a series of articles on computer music -- all written by mathematicians, computer scientists or electrical engineers -- which led her back to college and into the field of engineering. In 1987 she became a graduate student in MIT's Department of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science (EECS) and in 1995 received the PhD for her thesis, "Musical Variations from a Chaotic Mapping."

Cue the Music......"The ET Theme"....Chaotically modified naturally

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1867168054073996598

Followed by Go"del Escher Bach

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del,_Escher,_Bach

http://www.last.fm/listen/artist/Johann%2520Sebastian%2520Bach/similarartists

To get you in the mood for "The Myth of Heavy Lift"

http://www.thespacereview.com/article/146/1

We plan to place a 40,000,000 meter "curtain rail" in orbit. then have solar powered? levitating shuttles act as the "curtain rings". The rail will accelerate forward as the curtain rings accelerate backwards, until they are in geosynchronous orbit . Then we may be able to 'Hoist' payloads into space. This new United States Rail Gun could dramatically reduce the cost of placing the 'Curtain Rail" up in orbit. The mathematics work fine, but it's definitely at the "Pipe Dream" stage at the moment, buy why not? dreams cost nothing, and exercise the old grey matter wonderfully.

Carbon Nanotube Ribbon For Space Elevator
We may not have to go all that far into space, just as far as the curtain rail?

http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/Science-Fiction-News.asp?NewsNum=438

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/TECH/space/09/18/space.elevator/index.html

Gravity Powered Aircraft could take the payload part way, so to speak, the elevator cables could just dangle in the upper atmosphere, ready to hook up and hoist away?

http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=359 We are at the dawn of a New Age.

Hi Yuval,

Burning the midnight oil here, B.E.S.T Korea.Co.,Ltd. with a snazzy presentation of their full range of 'Brown Gas' generators.

This looks like main stream, not garden shed technology, swarofni the You Tube contributor has quite a selection of videos posted. In my view this was the best. At least now we can contact a real company, and extract 'real' data.

http://www.browngas.com/eng_bestkorea/main_eng.asp

This looks like one of their Promotion Videos on You Tube. Quite Impressive. No claims of over-unity though, as far as I could tell. Let's examine the specifications and find out. If...???... it is over-unity? then rest assured, I doubt there will not be a Professor in any University anywhere on the Planet, that will sleep easy till an adequate explanation is arrived at.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKCuI9IWfZ4&mode=user&search=

AC,

Just one question: Why do you seem so well hooked up with wacky science?!

Hi vermin ,

Glad you asked, and welcome to the thread.

John Archibald Wheeler, probably the greatest living Scientist alive today, told me that if a day passed without discovering and investigating something curious, then that day was a poor one.

The second reason, is that the Carnegie Corporation, does not like to lose money. and very much enjoys making loads of it by being ahead of the game.

Statements like this one intrigue me:-

· Thermonuclear reaction feature

Flame of Brown Gas has unique personality which atom and molecular hydrogen and oxygen react. Hydrogen atom and oxygen atom are permeated through atomic nucleus of heating zone material. Therefore, applied heat material is applied heat by hotter flame than flame of when gas is burnt alone among air because do thermonuclear reaction by hydrogen and oxygen. According to heating target material, Brown Gas that have different thermonuclear reaction special quality can weld brick with iron just as it is. http://www.browngas.com/eng_bestkorea/k_gas.htm

c. Result

(1)

If a company install the Brown Gas Generator(BK-6000), it receives piped water and produces Brown Gas as much as 8,870,400 wons worth per month. The company gets 8,303,400 wons as a monthly profit even if we get rid of its consuming electricity fee.

In other word, 9 months profit 8,303,400 wons is affordable to buy the product. If you buy the product, you will have an annual profit 99,640,800 wons and you can save such amount of fuel.

(2)

This result is in accord with the fact that Brown Gas which is used as a welding gas saves 94% of acetylene, and 82% of propane as mentioned by our catalogue in 1995 when we launch the first product.
In fact, we can save more than 82% for a ceramic melting incinerator using LNG and pure oxygen. Other cases save more than 80% of fuel costs.
You may be astonished because it saves too much. But they are natural results because it uses water as a fuel instead of oils.

(3)

Consequently, such economic effects are natural results of well-proportioned oxygen in Brown Gas. It awaken us a natural truth that water is a fuel.
We'd like to say that this age is of the water fuel self-production, and we hope our customers will be free from energy cost and live in plenty by saving cost.

These claims, from what appears to be a respectable company, with thousands of delighted and highly satisfied customers, look to be genuine, I would say that if they are, then Main-stream Science is the "Wacky" Science. What is more you and the rest of CR4, would probably concur.

Woof!!!

Dear Alastair,

...thermonuclear reaction by hydrogen and oxygen...

Why on earth, would you be taken by such phrase as in above? Even if the originators are this glorious Korean company selling a mixture of Hydrogen and Oxygen, atomic or molecular? - Why?

Unless of course they really did invent a new kind of physics in which hydrogen and oxygen can somehow interact in some meaningful thermonuclear reaction.

If it's about normal, old-fashion physics, thermonuclear is simply about atomic nuclei collision, above 12 million kelvin, to proximate beyond the Coulomb barrier, and thus, to result in the re-allocation of nucleons with higher atomic weight/mass. The energy resulted in the form of irradiated particles amounts to the mass difference between the sum input mass and the sum of output mass, of this so-called "Proton to Proton" (P-P) reaction.

Now, thermonuclear reaction by hydrogen and oxygen, would require some elaboration on their part at least, as this is a new kind of physics to me, which I would very much like to become familiar to.

- Can someone, anyone, enlighten me on the subject?

Yours, Yuval

Yuval,

"Square on the head" you have hit the nail!

"Balderdash" is a less scatological term. than BS. We are back in Fleischman Pons Cold Fusion Territory. That one is like an old Dracula Movie, he is dead and buried, but turns up again in a sequel. By all accounts Tritiated Acetone cavitated by piezo/pyro materials produced so much neutron emission, the Japanese Laboratory had to deploy thick lead shielding, on heath and safety grounds.

http://www.heise.de/tp/r4/artikel/20/20542/1.html

Bubble Fusion takes next hurdle

Haiko Lietz 18.07.2005

The potential for cavitation to induce nuclear fusion lets physicists think in new directions of energy production

When acetone – better known as nail polish remover – is ultrasonically resonated and irradiated by neutrons, nuclear fusion will occur. That is the claim of the two young physicists Dr. Yiban Xu and Adam Butt from the American Purdue University.

GOSH!.....where is my BIG PENCIL SHARPENER? I might need to point up a wooden stake again.......Drat! I am out of Garlic. better restock.

We are certainly seeing plenty of 'smoke' Yuval, but where is the 'Fire'? You Tube and Google Video are so full of this stuff, it's hard to select a decent presentation to show here. The BBC dis a whole documentary on the subject a while back. They invited Top Scientists to investigate, but there seemed to be no common ground.

There is a problem here. Folk are turned off by Scientific Terminology, it's just another 'Jargon' to them. I am myself terrified of posting 'Mathematical' Notation up here on CR4. It might as well be "The dreaded EVIL EYE" one glance at a square root sign or a large 'Sigma' and most people will move on in a hurry.

The other problem, is that Scientists are busy gentlemen, they don't have either the time or patience to get bogged down in a research effort that looks so dubious at the outset, that on probability grounds, effort would far better be applied elsewhere. They might even miss out on some really important stuff as a consequence. Then let's not forget the financial 'COST'....groan!

I would like to make one very important point, Nanotechnology is desperate for a Nano-Scale power source. You can't put batteries in a Nano-Bot. Most of these reported claims seem to be at the low end of the energy output scale. That could be just what the doctor ordered. So in my view, the effort spent translating this wild speculative and mis-named wacky science, could well yield fruitful dividends.

Communication Skills are needed. These folk are on the internet, all we need do is talk to them, and ask what they are up to. Nicely!

Very nice, but:

...Xu and Butt claim to measure neutrons and tritium – helium-3 is difficult and a proton impossible to measure in the given environment...

as to the required indirect evidence of the fusion, not to mention the high mass-to-energy yield which was evidently absent.

So, what exactly is their base to the claim which follows:

"We can be at least 99.994% sure that thermonuclear fusion of deuterium ions has occurred...

I wonder...

...Folk are turned off by Scientific Terminology, it's just another 'Jargon' to them. I am myself terrified of posting 'Mathematical' Notation up here on CR4...

This is probably because math is often miss-used to further-cunfuse vaque issues, instead of vividly describe them. It's not the math to blame, but instead, people's abuse of it. Math is only a description tool, and most sense it. Scientitst's know it, and that's why math is hardly ever used for the proof of anything other than mathematical or geometrical. The proof is mostly in coherent experiments, only given mathematical description, often to the degree of proximation.

Besides, people intuitively know that math anf jargon are only the "dressing" to their grasp, not the "meat". Hence the famous "If you cannot explain the core of your most complicated theory in one sentence, don't bother, s string of those, won't make it any clearer"

And NOW, Ladies and Gentlemen, in the Red Corner we have Xu and Butt, in the Blue Corner Professor Putterman...blah.

Professor Seth Putterman from the Californian University at Los Angeles thinks, that "the data that [Xu and Butt] presented in the paper is not convincing basically for the same reason as all of Taleyarkhan's papers." Putterman demands a timed coincidence between flashes of light due to sonoluminescence and neutron measurements in a time window of a billionth of a second. Taleyarkhan's group had only shown a correlation to be within a 2 millisecond window. (Foul!..Punch below the belt)

Indeed it is difficult separating the fusion neutrons from the background which is due to the neutron source. Xu says he and his colleague met such concerns by conducting a control experiment. They carried out an experiment with regular acetone, for which no fusion events are expected. In that experiment they did not measure a neutron difference between cavitation on and off:

The referee is counting, 10,9,8,7,6,5,....Wait a moment Xu & Butt are back up off the floor......It seems a correction is needed. The LARGE 'SIGMA' Placard has been raised by the referee.....blah.

Correction The article says that time correlation of light flashes and neutron measurements was only shown by Taleyarkhan et al. to be within a 2 millisecond time window. This refers to the overall time span in which correlations occurred (Phys. Rev. E., 2004, fig.7). Earlier Taleyarkhan et al. had already shown coincidences to be within a time window of roughly 10 nanoseconds (Science, 2002, fig.5a).

Our friend Vermin has a point, what did happen to that Sunlight Separation of water? more 'foul play'? ...let's not go there, Scammers smell money when folk shout 'CONSPIRACY!' ..... Like stealing candy from kids, just claim your cure for both New & Old Monia has been suppressed by the 'Temperance League' for having too much alcohol with the herbs and snake oil. (Watch the 'Goodies Patent Medicine Show')

Dear Alastair,

At first I thought you meant Brownian Gas somehow misspelled (as I often do), but then clicked the URL, to see that it was Brown, not Brownian, silly me.

There the legitimate looking company declares (as it does in the video promo of the second link) that they "...already started to develop the hydrogen energy, namely Brown gas..."

Calling hydrogen energy Brown gas, is a nice touch I must admit, and declaring publicly they already started to develop it, is even nicer, had my hat off in humility, but then scrolled down to see:

,

which made me realise that this is about them telling the world plain and simple, that they already started to develop industrial-scale electrolysis for whatever use, as if saying:

"Folks, we realised that people probably like hydrogen. OK. We'll electrolyse it for you, on industrial scale, once we're over the development phase, which we already started".

Nice.

P.S: I already started to develop the kinetic energy, namely the Green movement. A diagram and a video will follow.

Jasper the jester, at your service.

Hi Yuval,

you added an energy source to make the concept sound.

But they have stated in USP 6443725 that the "brown gas" generated is combusted to generate more brown gas and extract energy.

So this is a perpetuum mobile. No possibility to come near a realisation.

All should know the fact that the US patent and trademark office (www.uspto.gov)

abandoned its policy to thoroughly investigate the feasability of the claims since a few years. So nobody can trust US patents any more that the claims can be made real!

What is more interesting is the fact that companies like these can extract money from others with such a nonsense.

RHABE

...you added an energy source to make the concept sound...

Not I did. They did. My post (with diagram) was mainly a quote from their site...

I, personally, think this is a sham to convince people they invented electrolysis, and extract investment for "Further development"

...companies like these can extract money from others...

This is typical New-Age economics for you. You gather the best minds around, not to invent or discover something of benefit to people, but instead the use the best of their real potential, to fool other people, into believing and investing in fantastic but non-real schemes.

Today, people tend to believe in "too-good-to-be-true". It is not an oxymoron any more. Everything goes.

If I had a good video, done with stunning CGI, canvasing people to invest in the development of alien, ex-terrestrial technology, I bet at least one will come up with the money to open the flood gate for others. None will stop and ask: "Hey!...If this is superior alien technology, what is there do develop?"

No-one will even ask me how I got in touch with alien technology in the first place, or what are they like. As if it is besides the point.

People enjoy believing in fantasy. It helps them forget the hardship of every day's life.

Again, the saddest thing about it, is that behind these hoaxes are the brightest people, evidently needed to convince half-idiots like myself.

Again, the saddest thing about it, is that behind these hoaxes are the brightest people, evidently needed to convince half-idiots like myself.

Well put. Many scam artists are quite bright. I've often thought, "What a shame that this brainpower is being invested in nothing of lasting value, but simply to shift capital from the greedy to the greedier."

There seems to be a profound need in many people to truly believe in the unbelievable. In the US (as in many countries) we go to great lengths to teach children, at very young ages, to believe in the unbelievable: Santa Clause, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy. Then we eventually tell them, "No we made all that up! But you should believe in one God (or many gods, or a god in three forms, or goddesses, etc.) and you must know that your particular religious view is the correct one." As parents and religious teachers, we say, "Those who do not share our beliefs are wrong: they are infidels, godless, asleep, ignorant, without faith, and so on. We should, according to our faith, either kill them, shun them, tolerate them, "teach" them, or scorn them."

Religion teaches us not just that anything is possible, but that the most implausible things are those things that should resonate most deeply with us: the earth, its mountains and seas, and all the species were created in seven days. Thus conditioned, we easily throw out reason when offered a fantastic mechanism for creating energy out of nothing. We easily throw out our innate compassion when the bible (read: book of choice) tells us that it is OK to own slaves or subjugate women.

You say: People enjoy believing in fantasy. It helps them forget the hardship of every day's life. You're right. To fail to believe in Stanley Meyer's "vision" that you can simply split water, and then put it back together to run a car (with a net energy gain rather than the net loss that nature demonstrates for us) is akin to failing to believe in god. How could one be so crass? Why be a naysayer, when the possibilites are limitless when you open yourself to fantasy (or the new truth, or some authority's version of the truth).

Sadly, such belief in fantasy causes the most profound hardship. Many Americans believed Bush's fantasy version of the war in Iraq: Saddam has Nukes, Saddam and Osama are in cahoots, Shock and Awe, precision killing, Mission Accomplished. etc. The war grinds on, just as many rationalists had assumedit would, as evidenced by the debate before it started. It is only recently that the majority of Americans have begun to shun the fantasy and embrace the rational view. One cost of fantasy: new America haters generated at a rate unprecedented in history. There are 600,000 dead in Iraq as a result of the war, according to medical doctors, who cling to rationality, rather than embracing the fantasy that all this is 1. necessary, 2. good, 3. or easily distinguished from evil.

Fantasy makes it ever so much easier to sleep at night.

You have made some very profound points here Ken, I am indebted to you. I guess everyone here, by now knows I have revealed my Dog Collar credentials. I am a semi-retired Military Chaplain.......What can I say to your accurate summation of the Iraq situation?.....Except perhaps this; Every General or Commander will admit to making mistakes in the application of Military Force. An honest General will admit that often the same mistake is repeated several times, lethal mistakes. two or three perhaps, but a good General will learn from mistakes and try to address them. Killing people needlessly is bad Strategy and bad Tactics, it makes for a protracted conflict, and lasting resentment in the country that is attacked. The Nuclear Mistake, allows about five to fifteen minutes deliberation, then curtains for most of us!

A soldier is at liberty to question his command, but not at liberty to disobey. There is due process, and the question is, or should be given very careful attention, also the Commander should thank the questioner for having the courage to raise the issue.

Future mistakes can best be avoided with 'intelligence' from the field or theatre. There is an important distinction here. A soldier may only obey 'Legal' orders, actually he is complicit in an illegal act if he carries out an illegal order. His duty is to be even more courageous and report the matter higher up the chain of command. In Scotland, that chain stops at the Knight Marshal, who may refer the matter to the Commander in Chief, Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II or her Legitamate Heirs. I am honoured to serve as his Chaplain. (a possibly nepotistic commission). There is a rational justification for that, I hope that I would never be swayed by considerations of 'keeping my job' by avoiding an unpleasant duty. i.e. speaking my mind, openly and honestly, about a matter that would best be dealt with by my dismissal. So be it!

The same rules apply to our Sovereign Lady The Queen. She may refuse Her Assent to a piece of Parliamentary Legislation. that in turn would lead to what is euphemistically called here in the UK "A Constitutional Crisis". Just now for instance, mountains of new legislation is being rushed through our parliament....on the nod.... there is no debate, it affects all our citizens, the legislation has been drafted by unelected mandarins in Brussels, who bear a very close resemblance to the old and moribund 'Supreme Soviet' of the bad old days...blah....when that same legislation reaches the Upper House for intended, correction, modification or review, there is so much of the wretched stuff, there is simply no time to debate it, possibly a team of very fast readers prattling away like those 'chipmunks' or perhaps reading the legislation onto a tape recorder at slow speed, and playing it back at super high speed in the small hours of an all night sitting sounding like chipmunks on amphetamines?....I just don't know?..... never the less....The legislation goes forward for Royal Assent. Some crazy idiots imagine that this legislation is legally binding. Ask any Constitutional Professor here in Britain, or for that matter anywhere on the Planet, and I confidently assert his legal opinion would be damning!... There I have given my opinion.

As to Santa Clause, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy, That's the whole point, how else are kids going to learn that a lot of things folk in positions of authority say, like mummy & daddy, is utter balderdash. Learning the awful truth that the tooth was not collected by the tooth fairy, may be a right of passage. Some folk still believe our Prime Minister is our Head of State. No! The Rt. Hon. Tony Blair is just an adviser to the actual Head of State. She has many ministers to council her, and doubtless is very pleased that Tony Blair has formed a Government. When he retires and becomes a private citizen, perhaps then, he will respond to the "Subpoena" he has already received, requesting him to testify to the United States Congress about the 'Advice' he gave and received vis-a-vis The Gulf Conflict?

I am a semi-retired Military Chaplain

You have my admiration. Chaplains serve a very valuable function in the military. I have little quarrel with anyone in the military, and make a point of thanking those I see for their work in (what should be) protecting the people of my country and others. The military serves with valor. Our generals take orders from our president -- and it is there that my quarrel starts (and it continues through most of our elected officials.)

In Vietnam days, I very nearly ended up in the military, caught between a rock and a hard place. My friends were coming home in body bags, and those in power knew that we should not be in Vietnam -- that was clear to educated people back then, and after all the memoirs it should be (and generally is) clear to everyone now. So, although being vehemently opposed to the war, (and having come from pacifist stock) I was also opposed to the notion that the only ones fighting it should be those lacking student deferments (you can be sure there were few senators' sons going to Vietnam). I had a vague notion that I could somehow at least "help" by going over there -- although I suspect that I would have simply added to the killing of Vietnamese people, with whom I had no gripe whatsoever.

As it turns out, I went to take my physical, but the call up stopped just one short of my number (the draft worked on a lottery system then). I didn't go, and fortunately the war ended not too long after that.

I recently had the experience of working to get veteran's benefits for my father-in-law, who fought in WWII. The lack of responsiveness, the red tape, and the horrendous delays are a disgrace. Medical treatment of our current soldiers is no better, if I am to believe the news reports. Bush gives tax cuts to the rich, while our military hospitals are in ruins.

Now what on earth does this have to do with wacky science? I suppose only that Bush is one of our wackiest, with only the most meager understanding of anything scientific.

Well said RHABE, "so nobody can trust US patents....that claims can be made real"

Some Patents are only worth the scrap paper value. and are not even absorbent. The British Army call it 'Bumph' (Scatological fodder, 4 the use of) The Chairman of this B.E.S.T Company makes a clear statement that the most frequent question he is asked, is "What is the calorific value of the 'Brown Gas'?" to which he responds, "Exactly the same as regular Hydrogen"... so no claims of the ubiquitous "Over-Unity" here, He also says clearly that the question misses the point entirely. Which is:- "Brown Gas saves money on the shop floor"

We used to call it "Virgin Hydrogen", or mono-atomic as opposed to molecular H2. This has been known for a very long time to be 'Weird' stuff, and has had the scientific community puzzled for well over a century. B.E.S.T. customers are very happy with their product. It's safe, it's cheap, it's efficient, it's highly versatile. It works! They don't care what the explanation is. They just laugh all the way to the Bank!

Market Forces, will doubtless see the major corporations getting in on the act. Watch out for these tap-water dissociation devices in every welding shop across the nation, with comfortingly familiar brand names. Doubtless with more ingenious patents to enhance performance/reliability. Look out for conventional welding gas bottles piling up at the scrap yards. and Fire Brigade Officers breathing a huge sigh of relief.

Now come on CR4 Team, What's with Virgin Hydrogen? get those search engines busy please.

Dear Alastair,

None, I believe, is having doubts that hydrogen burns well. Their trouble (and mine) is the cost of extracting and maintaining it. Except for some exotic use, to which pure hydrogen is already called for, most common application of it, is as bound to carbon-chained gases such as butane.

Now, for canvas to invest in the development of worldwide use of pure hydroge... Well...

Occam one: Would you invest in it?

...We used to call it "Virgin Hydrogen", or mono-atomic as opposed to molecular H2. This has been known for a very long time to be 'Weird' stuff, and has had the scientific community puzzled for well over a century...

Occam two: Puzzled over the fact that it might cost to generate twice than it's caloric value compared to butane driven electricity?

When we used to demonstrate electrolysis in the science museum in Haifa, we took the trouble to inform the amazed visitors, that the output value is about half the input in terms of invested energy, not the other way around, as they might imply by a gist.

....E.S.T. customers are very happy with their product. It's safe, it's cheap, it's efficient, it's highly versatile...

Occam three: Did you buy any of it?

Yours, Yuval

Hi Yuval,

I think old Occam's Razor could do with a few 'Contemporary' improvements. The trouble with Razors is that they blunt to quickly. I believe that if you feed CO2 in with the Brown's Gas/Whatever, then Chemically Deposited Diamond (CVD) is deposited. My current recommendation is that the "Occam's Razor Company" investigate this phenomenon, and if merited, modify their machinery with a retro-fit Brown's Gas/CO2 micro-flame to deposit CVD at the sharp end of the sheet steel, on it's way to fabricating the finished blade.

Motor Car manufacturers could deposit an ultra fine layer of CVD onto the body panels of their cars. Nothing like Diamond for scratch-resistance. Camera Lenses and Glasses could theoretically benefit as well. Machine Drills and Cutting Tools also.

One feature of these High Voltage Pulsed water dissociation plants, is that I believe independent tests have confirmed ......practically no heat.....read that again.....no heat, is generated in the water being dissociated. Conventional 'Electrolyte' type electrolysis, rapidly heats the water due to Ohmic resistance. hence as you correctly pointed out Yuval,... "the output value is about half the input in terms of invested energy"....Not so here. V = I x R, & Watts are amps times volts. I remember the astonishing fact that de-ionised water is a very good insulator. as good as some transformer oils...Gosh!...One ohm resistance with ten volts, will give 100 watts of resistive heat out, a Milli-ohm at a thousand volts, just one watt! etc. Text book stuff. There is hardly an 'Inventive Step' in that revelation. You can't patent round wheels. 304 type Stainless Steels seems to have made these electrolysis plant viable. pitting on the plates was an early problem, thus solved.

The main mystery seems to be the heating effect of the flame, which itself does not appear to be all that hot? (tempting speculation of thermo-nuclear effects? a dubious claim, but worth investigating)

Tungsten (W) which melts at 3422C, is easily welded. even Carbon at over 4000C melting point, seems to give way to the flame? Put Brown's Gas in a gallon tin can, then ignite it, the can will crumple up as a near vacuum is formed by the 'implosion', put regular bottled Hydrogen & Oxygen into a similar can, and stand well back when you ignite it, bits of can are liable to fly everywhere. Weird and definitely "Wacky"

Scientists like to give the impression sometimes that they are all knowing, subjects that do not have a ready explanation are a bit embarrassing, best brush the subject under the carpet, and ostracize anybody who brings the subject up. Thankfully we no longer burn heretics at the stake.

Marcus Tullius Cicero:-

"Do not hold the delusion that your advancement is accomplished by crushing others."

& "When you have no basis for argument, abuse the plaintiff"

& "By doubting we all come at truth."

& "A bureaucrat is the most despicable of men, though he is needed as vultures are needed, but one hardly admires vultures whom bureaucrats so strangely resemble. I have yet to meet a bureaucrat who was not petty, dull, almost witless, crafty or stupid, an oppressor or a thief, a holder of little authority in which he delights, as a boy delights in possessing a vicious dog. Who can trust such creatures?"