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Not Many Questions

07/15/2011 9:34 PM

It seems to me that the number of new questions posted on CR4 has decreased to a trickle from the generous flow when I joined the site a few years ago.

CR4 admin must have statistics on the number of new posts per day over time, and I would like you to share that with us. Also, if there is a reason why there are fewer problems to consider, discuss and solve on CR4 presently than there were previously, is there a policy or practical decision that has affected the flow of new questions, and if so, would you share it with us.

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#1

Re: Not many questions

07/15/2011 11:24 PM

Perhaps the world is running out of questions.

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#4
In reply to #1

Re: Not many questions

07/16/2011 1:10 AM

GA. shall we start asking silly questions each other?

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#2

Re: Not Many Questions

07/16/2011 12:24 AM

Who knows, maybe the CR4 search engine really does work...

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#6
In reply to #2

Re: Not Many Questions

07/16/2011 2:20 AM

You are right. In case of sily questions we advise OP to 'Google' or search in CR4. Also home work questions are discouraged.

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#3

Re: Not Many Questions

07/16/2011 12:33 AM

Some have just given up.

Just kidding.

CR4 is a member driven site. Admin does what they can to keep the site both running and interesting. The rest is up to us. That's the beauty of this place................it's not television. As members, we have a responsibility to keep things flowing.

What's on your mind?

Let's discuss it.

Post a thread..........................just don't get mad if people disagree with you.

I'd rather argue on CR4 than spend quality time with my in laws any day of the week.

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#5
In reply to #3

Re: Not Many Questions

07/16/2011 1:24 AM

As long as I'm at it, I'd like to take the opportunity to thank the current moderation team for allowing some of us to devolve into complete idiots.

This is how we learn.

The fact that some of us are engaged in silly backbiting, doesn't seem to detract from the fact that the serious questions still get answered.

All is well.

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#7

Re: Not Many Questions

07/16/2011 2:50 AM

On the "see all threads" pages, you can count how many threads originate each day. On a quick look, I have seen from about 20 to about 60.

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#8

Re: Not Many Questions

07/16/2011 6:27 AM

It could be the loss of jobs/projects to "other" countries that may just not have open internet access. Or maybe most of the questions/answers have been Googled.

Though it could be the slow worlds economy. Not as much work, projects, etc.

Amy other ideas?

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#9

Re: Not Many Questions

07/16/2011 7:58 AM

Maybe I should set up a CR4 account for my 6 year old son. He certainly hasn't run out of questions. Sometimes out of the blue he will start "Daddy, how come ....." then look around the room for a long time and spot something he can ask about "....tooth brushes have the white thing-a-ma-jiggers on the end that move when you put them on your teeth?"

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Not Many Questions

07/16/2011 9:33 AM

Kids. Wait for those questions your not ready for ....there coming...

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Not Many Questions

07/16/2011 2:25 PM

yes, i know. My 10 year old daughter has already come up with a few. Fortunately, I can defer most of those to my wife.

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#12
In reply to #11

Re: Not Many Questions

07/16/2011 4:24 PM

He, He... One of our neighbors has three boy's two in the "why" stages. A few weeks back, Another neighbor an 18yr boy who has long hair "Think skateboarder". The two boy's Hounded him for a couple of day "are u a boy or a girl", "u look like a girl", "u don't sound like a girl" They wore him out. To everyone else around we bugged him for a week!

Good luck with your kids and have fun!

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#65
In reply to #12

Re: Not Many Questions

07/18/2011 8:36 AM

Thanks....my kids are a blast, even when they are a pain in my a$$.

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#13

Re: Not Many Questions

07/16/2011 10:59 PM

Wow. Really? Those are y'alls answers? No one is going to admit to the obvious?

Let me tell you a little story.

I signed up on here around four years ago. I was really excited to have found such a potentially awesome resource. I doubt two weeks had passed before I came into my first major confrontation with one or three of the "regulars". That first confrontation happened because some innocent soul that had asked a question... one I never heard from before... was getting what amounted to a gang rape by this particular group of regulars who already had a post count into the thousands. I watched it for a while, and finally had to come to this guy's defense, as I saw absolutely no reason for the seriously aggressive bullying that was going on. Was total lack of respect for each other. Truly unnecessary. That victim left and I was left facing the ire of the gang. I wasn't taking his side of the argument, I was merely asking for the gang to not be so rude and aggressive to the guy.

That was my first run-in with the Lord of the Flies group. I actually ended up leaving this place entirely for about 18 months because I was so disgusted with the incessant and unrelenting bullying by this one particular small group. Eventually I did come back. A few of The Group were gone (or changed names for all I know), but the general atmosphere was actually even worse.

Every time I said something to Admin, they gave me apologies and said they were working on it. Every time I communicated with Admin I told them of how many members I personally suggested this forum to (associates of mine), who came here on my advice and within a few days told me this place was ridiculous. How everyone seemed like such A-holes to each other. I told them it wasn't everyone... just a small group. Anyway, I know a handful that said it wasn't worth it and never came back. I've private messaged a few other people who I didn't know, that I'd seen bullied... several of them said they find no reason to come back. A lot of these people never even got to 20 comments. I'd mention this stuff to Admin, letting them know that because of a handful of members who feel they own the place, and who feel they don't need to be respectful or courteous... there are tons of members, worldwide, that get run off because they find no reason to put up with it. And if this is just people that I know, how many thousands more are there?

The general response from this ruling group is pretty much always some form of.. "Your skin isn't thick enough". Evidently not. Mine and many many many others that don't feel like telling you about it. Thet just leave. Not you Artsmith... but "you" the group I'm talking about.

And here it is... four years later.

So anyway... I gotta tell ya... the irony is not lost on me today, when I see someone finally officially ask the question "Gee... where did everyone go?"

And your answers to that question? Everything but the obvious.

Truly... Irony at its best.

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#14
In reply to #13

Re: Not Many Questions

07/16/2011 11:28 PM

Yep. The truth does sting but it is the truth.

I'll admit that I've occasionally been lured to the mob mentality that has sometimes existed here. I've also done my share of trying to defend those being abused but I am far from sainthood.

What particularly burns my butt are the truly clueless visitors that want us to Google their questions for them. On the other hand there are times that the clueless ones are just some student staring into what I think of as a series of false endless loop paradoxes that the student needs a simple wake up slap and a redirect so that they can do the work themselves.

But my intent of proving your point has turned into a digression. Many of us here have been far too abusive of people who come to us asking for help.

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#15
In reply to #14

Re: Not Many Questions

07/16/2011 11:55 PM

Thank you for owning up to it redfred. Yes, I can recall a time or two when you were lured into the mob mentality. But that's just it... it feeds on itself and causes people who otherwise would not be like that, to "join in". But you are not one of the instigators.

I will respond to your valid point about those who are students wanting to get by easy on their homework, or those that could have easily googled their own answers... regardless of their faux pas, it is just as easy for us to tell then courteously that their questions are not proper for this place. Lashing out is never necessary. That type of response is purely a personal choice. And many of these types of questions come from people unfamiliar with the proper etiquette of asking questions here. They can hardly be blamed if they are new. But one thing is for sure.... they will never come back and contribute if they are treated that way. That is a loss for all of us. I've seen it time and again. And even those that could google on their own... perhaps they did, but wanted a conversation about it instead of just a website.

Yeah, I'm hoping more people will speak up on this issue, now that the door has been opened. And redfred, I appreciate you not responding aggressively and defensively to my opening this subject up. I have no doubt that that will be coming from others soon.

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#16
In reply to #15

Re: Not Many Questions

07/17/2011 12:24 AM

Always the martyr eh

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#118
In reply to #16

Re: Not Many Questions

07/21/2011 3:49 PM

Nothing says "coward" like posting as an Anonymous Poster, eh?

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#19
In reply to #14

Re: Not Many Questions

07/17/2011 2:15 AM

OBE and redfred: ..... GA's guys. They well illuminate what is perhaps the major issue here. Later I'll field some other causes I see.

The gangs of (pick your number) don't bother me much. Like mosquitoes the first buzz gets a casual brush. But with the second the war is on. For mosquitoes it starts and usually ends with my built in 2 hp shop vacuum system.

For annoying insects on CR-4 the weapon of choice is the English Language. It can be honed to a cutting edge worthy of the finest tool steel. Sharp enough to not be felt or even recognized until the perp, gasping for breath, looks down at the pool of blood on the ground. Of late it becomes necessary to only shave a few hairs.

I think another reason why the volume of questions is down is that everyone is becoming better at researching on the internet. And those sources are maturing. Wikipedia is getting better. Many website search functions are getting better. Forums are filling their archives with good discussions. I have mixed feelings about Google. Their bias toward advertisers leads to far too many sites that are more interested in subjecting you to a sales pitch than teaching you anything. ...... but I drift OT here.

I also think a lot of us have fielded most of the technical questions that are in our minds and gotten a handle on the level of resources in CR-4. I know for me their are no specialists in a few topics that are of interest to me and I have a better chance of getting the right answer on another forum that focuses on more specialized subjects. Indeed the proliferation of forums on all manner of subjects may be what is reducing our number of specific technical questions.

Perhaps we might improve the situation by forming a habit of not commenting on a question unless the reply is truly constructive.

Ed Weldon

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#17
In reply to #13

Re: Not Many Questions

07/17/2011 1:05 AM

I am curious about the exchange from 2007, which was before my time. Who were the "Gang of Four (±)" back in the good old days? The archive of your posts seems to go back to about 10/2010.

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#20
In reply to #13

Re: Not Many Questions

07/17/2011 2:47 AM

yes OBE, I've seen what your talking about. And I've been short with a few. BUT on the few I've given a starting point. I also look up the OP "if low number of post" to see where/what they ask to see if there a pattern like a student looking for help. Also not everyone primary language is English or second or third. I'm sure a few don't speak english at all but use a translator to get there question to us. So I try to understand there question instead of "blowing them off".

I found this place several years ago also. I though it would help me learn from reading other peoples questions and answers in how they problem solve. I've not been disappointed. I also have tried to pass on knowledge in what I know. And I've gone looking for answers for/to other people questions. In the process I've learned from that.

I also know CR4 is for "Engineers". Anyone that has read my by-line knows I'm a tech. I've worked with/for a lot of engineers over the years in different fields. To that end I've been able to keep a few on there toes.

In the end maybe we can think twice before we blow-off the newbie question.

Also if admin could create a "STUDENT" log in that would help.

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#23
In reply to #13

Re: Not Many Questions

07/17/2011 7:12 AM

I note that someone OT'd this excellent answer, evidently to prevent it from being tagged as a GA. Maybe that person would care to offer a reply and identify themselves. Let's see how long this will take ...

I only joined last year so I missed most of the fun. However, I have some experience of getting ragged by the regulars. My alleged offense was spamming, because in the course of discussing a problem I referred to one of my patents. I got the sense that the merits of my case didn't matter because I was in for a hazing.

The Daily Digest usually leads to a thread where I can learn something interesting. Not just technical advice from an expert, but also life lessons from interesting people in interesting places doing interesting things. Like most Americans, I don't get a chance to hear from the rest of the world, particularly India. So for me the signal-to-noise ratio on CR4 is acceptable.

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#85
In reply to #23

Re: Not Many Questions

07/18/2011 11:17 PM

I guess it will take about 1.5 days, and yes, I would now care to identify myself: Eugene R. Walker, aka Tornado.

At first, I was playing a bit of a hunch, anticipating that I might later come in contrary to OoBE's plaint in post 13. By now several unanswered posts have confirmed my hunch, so I stand by that vote.

I don't know why (or even if) the number of daily questions has declined, but OoBE seems to think his explanation is obvious, or perhaps even the only one. Unfortunately, he still hasn't given any details or references to his 2007 experience (before I was around). Thus I classified his post as innuendo at best, and hence OT. (But by now, maybe I'm just part of the "gang.")

In my post 22, I proposed another explanation for the (possibly) declining number of questions.

While there may be some sort of "gang," the worst I have seen is some abruptness and/or sarcasm, but not generally accusations of lying, as in OoBE's post 69. In 76, I said that went a bit too far, but have received no reply.

As for "gangs," we might discuss a "safety nanny gang" that also seems to be on board....

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#87
In reply to #85

Re: Not Many Questions

07/18/2011 11:54 PM

I did a bit of searching

the only posts from OBE in 07 were under his threads & blogs

I didn't find anything out of the ordinary

I for one do follow links

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#66
In reply to #13

Re: Not Many Questions

07/18/2011 9:15 AM

Hi OBE,

I understand where you're coming from. Although I don't know if it's so much cruelty, as much as just impatience with some threads that just make no sense. I try to avoid the mob sessions.....................they really are a waste of time.

I've also noticed that very few of us are completely guilt free. There are many instances here, where a person feels so passionately about a certain side of an issue, that any disagreement or opposing view is taken to be a personal attack. This feeling is often times what starts the real arguments.

For example, I was recently on a thread in which there was much disagreement. The OP took the disagreement personally, and actually ended up being the one that made things personal, by saying that Anonymous Hero was no longer worthy of his respect. He carried his anger further, by saying than anyone that disagreed with him had no business being an engineer and should get out of the field.

A passionate feeling on a topic is good. When the passion runs so deep, that any opposing opinion is assumed to be an attack, it doesn't take long for things to get out of hand.

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#69
In reply to #66

Re: Not Many Questions

07/18/2011 2:35 PM

Kramarat, it's simply amazing how you outright lie and twist the facts and misquote me, trying to gain support for your little failing mob and your abrasive and abusive methods.

For everyone else reading this post... kramarat is cleverly, in his devious way, referring to me. Unfortunately he is putting a classic spin on the facts and making it sound like I was being a hypocrite, when in fact what he's saying is not actually accurate; but a deliberate attempt to dishonestly discredit. That's pathetic.

What you are doing is nothing new. It's been used by propagandists and dictators for centuries. In fact, it's classic. Continue telling the exact same lie, consistently, forever, and continue ignoring the actual issue, consistently, forever... and eventually those that are listening to you will forget the actual issue and begin to believe the lie. Classic. It was brilliant when it was first employed. Centuries ago. Now it's just pathetic.

One more time, so your corrupt little mind can understand.

It's not about disagreement. It's about rudeness and cruelty and absolute lack of etiquette toward others. Not disagreement, kramarat. I'll say it so everyone can understand and stop getting sidetracked by your ridiculous attempt at warping the truth. STOP misquoting me. And STOP quoting me out of context. Disagreement is GOOD. Debate is GOOD. People who disagree with me are GOOD. Is that clear kramarat?

Your and your cronies lack of courtesy and your rudeness is BAD. Your ganging up on people you don't like is BAD. The childish playground bully atmosphere that exists on this forum is BAD. And it's the reason that there are fewer and fewer and fewer participants. Your word games and mind games don't work anymore on most of us. Most everyone knows what you are. But the new people that you chase away, the visitors that observe your behavior and decide never to come back .... that is the issue and that is the damage that you and your clique are doing.

Your clever little twist of words didn't work, in trying to intimidate me... sorry. You're a real piece of work. Honestly, I wish you and your tight little group weren't here. It would be such a nicer place. The high agreement rate of my other comment on this thread, despite your OT attempts, is proof that your bullying ways are not popular here by anyone except your small group. And feel free to never participate in any threads that I start. Let's just call a spade a spade and get it all in the open.

Can I be any clearer in the fact that I have no issues with differing opinions... but I have enormous problems with the way that you and your clique terrorize some people and drive new people away? Is that clear? You can stop misquoting me now. People aren't that stupid. Your group also happen to be highly intelligent in engineering subject matter. So it makes it a conundrum. My opinion is that it's not a worthy trade off. I could do with losing all of your clique's brain power in exchange for a better atmosphere here that makes CR4 clearly a welcoming and non-abusive place for all people, at all levels, from all places. There are others that would rise to the occasion and take your place. No great loss.

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#70
In reply to #69

Re: Not Many Questions

07/18/2011 2:49 PM

I guess we might as well reveal the identities of all of the bullies...............or at least a good chunk of them, so the other members know who to avoid.

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/70256#newcomments

The posts I was referring to.

http://cr4.globalspec.com/comment/750043/Re-A-Net-to-Catch-Falling-Sports-Fans

http://cr4.globalspec.com/comment/752211/Re-A-Net-to-Catch-Falling-Sports-Fans

I only saw one poster getting upset enough to start slinging insults.

This is not a group of people that intentionally targeted you. It's a group of people that disagreed with your position.................it infuriated you.

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#71
In reply to #70

Re: Not Many Questions

07/18/2011 3:02 PM

Yeah, you know what? Nobody is going to follow those links. Except maybe your boys. No body cares. You don't need to present evidence in your case and try to lead us down a twisty road. Everyone knows who you people are. Most aren't up to exerting the energy required to stand up for the people that are abused on this forum. The humanitarian streak in me happens to be a little more obvious, so I do stand up for them and I do stand up against the bullies. That doesn't make me better than them. Maybe I just have more time.

Go file an appeal or something, if that's easier for you to do than simply being respectful to innocent but perhaps niave people that don't know as much engineeing facts as you do.

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#72
In reply to #71

Re: Not Many Questions

07/18/2011 3:20 PM

OK, are you folks finished giving us all a great example of why there is less activity on this fourm than there used to be. No matter how interesting a topic is to me I unsubscribe to the thread once this type of thing starts. That is because from here on it will be just your two (or three) going back and forth and the original topic is long gone.

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#73
In reply to #72

Re: Not Many Questions

07/18/2011 3:24 PM

You're correct. I apologize. I'm done. Although back and forth bickering like this is a different issue, it's equally unattractive to the rest of the members. I was wrong in carrying it on.

I think this is an important thread, and I don't want to turn people away from it.

GA

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#83
In reply to #73

Re: Not Many Questions

07/18/2011 10:07 PM

"Although back and forth bickering like this is a different issue"

Isn't this exactly what your post #13 introduced into the topic as a reason for "Not Many Questions"?

Since when, you have generated more posts than any other contributor (9 to nearest 5), resisting any who fail to embrace your theory - which in itself is a thinly veiled attack on the ethics of other members.

In that light, All of your posts seek 'uproar', and half have been outright insults.

So what other outcome did you seek to create?

Not this one obviously; "I think this is an important thread, and I don't want to turn people away from it"

Now I would not normally comment on this 'outcome', were it a random aberration (bad day) of some member, but you are habitual and this is just another thread you have taken over, imposed your theory, for no tangible reason, and driven into 'mud slinging'.

As for your 'bully/gang/old boys club/conspiracy' theory: I think all credibility that wasn't self extinguished by Moose and I are a gang, is certainly gone to dust with Kramarat, AH and Nelson Hozman (3 posts, join 07/14/11) as 'old buddies'.

And I would like to add;

I applaud Kramarat for his self restraint in the face of your provocations.

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#74
In reply to #72

Re: Not Many Questions

07/18/2011 4:24 PM

I'm not trying to argue, nor do I want to.

Unless admin starts eliminating all but basic textbook engineering questions and answers, ideological differences will crop up................there are no winners and losers.............bullies and victims. At least not in my mind.................just differences of opinion. It can get heated at times. (I meant to say enraged in my last post)

I've said this before. I have friends in the real world that are all over the ideological map. We get in arguments...............sometimes loud ones.............we are never not friends.

Maybe it's time to eliminate all posts that could possibly hurt anyone's feelings. That would be interesting.

I'll make an attempt to only post to threads that I agree with. If we all do the same, the arguing should stop. We'll just agree on everything and give each other GAs.

Personally, I've enjoyed the diversity of threads and blogs on here. Some that don't strictly fit into engineering, but interesting topics nonetheless.

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#93
In reply to #74

Re: Not Many Questions

07/19/2011 11:34 AM

The Engineer's Place for News and Discussion®

Perhaps it's the meaning of, "discussion", that is misunderstood.

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#77
In reply to #72

Re: Not Many Questions

07/18/2011 5:26 PM

Amen.

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#81
In reply to #72

Re: Not Many Questions

07/18/2011 8:07 PM

This is a longish post. I hope many of you will read it. I'm hoping you'll find it interesting.

I really like your signature quote Apothicus.

"All that is required for evil to succeed, is for good men to do nothing"

I find it oddly appropriate to what I've been talking about. I'm not suggesting that the atmosphere in here is ever anything close to evil, but the sentiment is still valid.

As far as those opposed to what I've been saying... I can switch views for a second, and say something in their defense. In deciding what is appropriate or non-appropriate behavior in any situation, it's often society's reaction to it, that helps to determine the answer to that. If a group of nine year olds kick a dog, then look around, and nobody says anything about it, they're going to come to the conclusion that it's fine and dandy to go around kicking dogs.

If someone is getting mugged in a dark residential neighborhood, and the muggers look around and only see people closing their curtains to block it out, they are going to assume it's okay to mug people in that neighborhood.

We've got a society, or neighborhood, here in this forum. I guess I'm one of those people that would go and grab the nine year olds by the ear and drag them off. Or grab my bat and walk outside to confront the muggers. It's been the reason for many of my confrontations here on CR4. And although I can think of a half dozen or so members that also tend to do that to some extent, I more often than not, find myself one against the group.

Believe me, I would far rather have no confrontations of that sort at all. It spoils the fun that I come here for. Sometimes it ruins my day. I don't sign-in with the intent to go around being the self proclaimed social conscience here. But quite honestly, there is just no way that I can watch a dog getting kicked, or a gang mugging... all without consequence... and just go on to the next post.

With the oftentimes limited support I get, it would be natural to start wondering if I'm doing the right thing. But, in the end, I don't doubt that I'm doing the right thing. Good or bad... it's my nature.

If we as a whole don't react to some of the injustices we see on here, they will be perceived as acceptable. I'm not saying to start WWIII whenever someone is being a butt hole... but simple reminders of the questionable behavior could do wonders. But it would have to happen in the majority of cases, by many people who care enough about it. We have to police ourselves. Eventually, hopefully, we could end up with a course adjustment of what is appropriate in here. And new people wouldn't desert this place because of the vitriol. We could grow and add to the collective knowledge.

If we consistantly speak to each other as if we all just met at an International Engineering Conference, and are all sitting around the table with a beer and a chicken dinner, discussing things... I think we'd be alright. If you wouldn't say something in that situation, then don't say it here. I think that that could be considered a decent analogy. Don't y'all? Chicken Banquet at an International Engineering Conference?

On the other hand, if good men do nothing... we'll just have more of the same. And not as many people come to next years Conference.

I hope none of you see this post as arrogant or self-righteous. That is not the spirit nor intent that I'm trying to convey. I'm trying to make a positive difference.

Maybe I should start a new thread entitled Chicken Banquet?

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#82
In reply to #71

Re: Not Many Questions

07/18/2011 9:55 PM

Speaking of the big lie oft repeated

Why don't you enlighten us?

who are you people?

you have accused me of being part of some gang on more than one thread

Who is in this gang you speak of?

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#140
In reply to #82

Re: Not Many Questions

07/22/2011 7:44 PM

Hmmm... This is all too much...

Am I one of "Those people" or the "Gang"?

I think i do a fairly good job of just sticking to myself. I do a plenty good enough job of humiliating myself, and shoving my own foot in my mouth that I don't think I need much help.

In any case, I've been here a while, and have never really picked up on any "gang" activity/mentality, this is all new to me.

In the end, when a topic starts turning into a mud slinging event, I simply stop listening, and find another topic which I might be able to learn from.

I don't stick around here for any one particular reason, I stick around for a small handful of them. Here are my reasons for participating on this site:

  1. To Learn. I have learned many many good things since I've been here, and cherish the opportunity to continue to learn from some of the brightest minds on the planet.
  2. To share. I feel good to know that a tidbit of knowledge I picked up somewhere along the way might be of help to someone else. It just makes me feel good.
  3. To discuss. I enjoy playful banter, jokes, other peoples opinions on topics, other points of view, and the general exchange of ideas.
  4. To stay informed. I particularly enjoy the news section. Many topics I would not stumble across elsewhere.

There is a "Community" aspect to it as well, the sense of being part of something.
The thought that all these posts will be around after I'm dead and buried is an interesting thought as well.
In the end, I enjoy CR4 and would hate to see it dissolve simply due to poor attitudes, and aggressive behavior.

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#141
In reply to #140

Re: Not Many Questions

07/22/2011 8:14 PM

GA. I share your reasons for participating. When things get messy I tend to leave the mudslingers to sling mud, and will unsubscribe when it gets silly. I have to admit to getting annoyed with those who prefer to sling mud and get personal, rather than addressing the technical points in question and engaging in serious dialogue (and answering difficult or awkward questions that contradict ones point of view), but I am no longer as naive as to believe that ignoring these people will encourage them to go away. Like our beautiful UK weather (!?!?!?), it's just something we have to live with, and we do not necessarily have to allow it to spoil the community.

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#142
In reply to #141

Re: Not Many Questions

07/22/2011 11:17 PM

"That's the whole trouble. You can't ever find a place that's nice and peaceful, because there isn't any. You may think there is, but once you get there, when you're not looking, somebody'll sneak up and write "Fuqk you" right under your nose" J. D. Salinger

(spelling of one of the greatest American writers adjusted per FAQ)

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#144
In reply to #142

Re: Not Many Questions

07/22/2011 11:28 PM
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#143
In reply to #140

Re: Not Many Questions

07/22/2011 11:25 PM

I share your reasons for being here

One of the things I'm interested in is the way groups interact

CR4 mirrors the group dynamics you find in the technical sections of many enterprises [there is usually not quite this much diversity]

these kinds of people tend to be smart, somewhat independent, some can even border on stubborn & there are always plenty of big egos to go around

the failure analysis on threads, can feel personal to some, it isn't on my part

I don't think there are gangs

there are certainly ad hoc groups of like minded members that can form

after some time you will find certain members on certain types of threads

some members will express similar views on some subjects

I wouldn't consider this to be gang activity

when your argument is weak, it's easy to try to change the subject, by crying persecution

another classic sign of a weak argument is to accuse your opponent of the tactics you are employing

I think we can all decide the reality for ourselves

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#145
In reply to #143

Re: Not Many Questions

07/23/2011 1:17 AM

"I think we can all decide the reality for ourselves"

This verses the 'puppet' connotation, is the basic reason I find the "gang" allegation so offensive.

Aside from it being 'vaporous' when it comes naming the membership.

And aside from it being such a corrosive seed in the minds of ... well everybody, including Admin, looking at 'independent agreement' on a topic.

When you realise it took only one member to sow this 'seed' and the recent uptake has exponentially uncreased 'uproar', it 'maturing' a bit of a worry in CR4 future terms.

On the bright side, we now know "beavis and butthead" and some AP are apparently a "gang".

I'm just not having much success finding their profile pages.

And, as, everyone knows from "Gang of Four", there must be a "Mindermast" lurking somewhere 'pulling their strings'.

Or, that is what we are being conned into doing - suspecting/accusing each other of being 'puppets' by 'puppets'?

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#146
In reply to #140

Re: Not Many Questions

07/23/2011 10:28 PM

Interesting that you should mention these threads being around after we're dead.

I hope CR4 continues on. As a sort of old dude with a four year old daughter, I'd like to think that this is a place that she can come to get to know me when I'm gone.

It ain't always pretty, but I want her to know me as the person that I am when she gets older, not just the person that is forced into being a responsible parent. ( Not forced into it, but you know what I mean).

If I'm not here when she reaches adulthood, she can come get to know me better right here. I hope that if she is interested enough to read my posts, in the end she will like me.

For me, CR4 is much more than the founders imagined.....................it's a repository for my thoughts.

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#147
In reply to #146

Re: Not Many Questions

07/24/2011 12:29 AM

Kramarat -- Do what I do. When you put together a post her that you think is worth saving take it off line into a Word doc and do your editing and spell check there. Save it into a "Kramarats CR-4" folder and then paste the edited version back into the CR-4 message block to submit it. Periodically download the folder into a USB drive and store it in an envelope with your daughter's name on it and the words "read this, DAD". ......Ed Weldon

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#148
In reply to #147

Re: Not Many Questions

07/24/2011 10:57 AM

Thanks Ed.

I haven't really contributed anything that's groundbreaking or particularly important.

If CR4 is still around, I'd like for her to see my posts in context. At the very least, she'll see that a lot of times, adults are just a bunch of kids that try to act like they know what they're doing.......................her Dad included.

Speaking of kids, I see someone is still busy at work chipping away at my GA count. Don't stop until you feel that your work is done.

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#149
In reply to #148

Re: Not Many Questions

07/24/2011 11:35 AM

"....someone is still busy at work chipping away..."

Hmmmmmm...... The referenced organism would make an interesting study under my microscope, suitably stretched out and pinned down in order to properly fill the view field. I do think, though, I'd have to hunt around for those old dusty 20x eyepieces in order to identify its brain.... EW

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#150
In reply to #149

Re: Not Many Questions

07/24/2011 3:01 PM

If someone feels they need to do that to obtain gratification, I figure they need the good feeling they get, far more than I need the GAs.

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#91
In reply to #71

Re: Not Many Questions

07/19/2011 6:19 AM

I followed the links - to a thread I unsubscribed from some time ago because it all got too personal.

I'm definitely NOT one of the "boys" - and it's interesting to see who you regard as being "The Gang"...a bunch of individuals with string opinions I've seen on the site for years, and all of whom I've seen apologise when proved wrong...

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#76
In reply to #69

Re: Not Many Questions

07/18/2011 4:50 PM

Saying that someone is lying goes too far, unless someone really is.

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#78
In reply to #76

Re: Not Many Questions

07/18/2011 5:38 PM

One more time, so your corrupt little mind can understand.

I've taken my share of beatings on here. I don't complain............and I don't use the OT button. Sometimes it's well deserved...........and sometimes it's not.

Well, sometimes I do complain, but it doesn't do me any good.

You guys can be ruthless.

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#79
In reply to #69

Re: Not Many Questions

07/18/2011 6:09 PM

When people get emotionally wrapped up in a certain topic, it's rational thought itself that becomes the enemy.

I am certainly guilty of pointing this out in both absurd and sarcastic posts. I am also guilty of not taking the time to consider the political correctness of my posts. I say what's on my mind. It's not always appropriate. If I've hurt you, it was not intentional, and that is not my reason for being here.

I'm here as a diversion from the real life crappy things that we all have to deal with.

CR4 is, has been, and will continue to be, both an educational, and entertaining site for me. That includes the occasional argument. I haven't aligned myself with anyone.

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#75
In reply to #13

Re: Not Many Questions

07/18/2011 4:44 PM

I think you really struck a nerve that needed attention (and not just any one or group). I recently expressed a similar response on a post, not in defense of a poor response, but the demeaning vitriol that followed it. When we don't have something good or useful to say, it is always best to just say nothing at all.

If we all have given pause to our community image as a result of your response, you have done your job well.

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#18

Re: Not Many Questions

07/17/2011 1:47 AM

Simplest reason for not too many questions is,that many of us (that include me) Are not tolerant enough to the question's like this.

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#21

Re: Not Many Questions

07/17/2011 3:33 AM

Hi Everyone,

I think the perceived reduction in questions posted has a number of reasons most of which have already been answered in the various replies to this thread but my observations include the following points :-

- the ability to post anonymously should be removed. If you've got something to say then identify yourself. Yes, I know a few people think this may compromise their employment or put forward other reasons but personally I believe this feature is detrimental to the site.

- be tolerant of posters who struggle to express themselves in English.

- avoid the 'holier than thou' attitude demonstrated by some posters replying to, what to them, may seem like a very basic question. Remember that not so long ago you also didn't know the answer either and we are all on a continuous learning curve.

- I believe that questions that are posted with insufficient information (length of a piece of string?) attract the most sarcastic/aggressive replies. As most of us are aware, especially from a technical viewpoint, you have to present all the details before you can expect an answer.

- there is a tendency these days for people to amuse themselves by being aggressive and disruptive on various sites (bulletin boards, social websites and technical sites such as CR4) and this phenomenon is now becoming quite common. Not only is it a problem for the members but becomes a major problem for the administrators as well. People who have experienced aggression on other sites will tend to be more sensitive to this behaviour.

- the ease of carrying out searches for answers on 'Google' or 'Wikipedia' has meant that a lot of queries are taking that route.

- I have noted that the posts also tend to be affected by the seasons i.e. in Summer everyone is busy spending their time outside and on-line time is reduced. Once Winter arrives then everybody is back indoors and has more time on their hands. As, I believe, the majority of the posts on CR4 come from the States this could also be a cause for the drop in posts.

- it should be remembered that there is a very big difference between theoretical and practical knowledge and for those of us that have 'been through the mill' it is sometimes difficult to remember the time when we had just qualified and thought we knew it all - how wrong we were! We have to accept that our places are now being taken over by new engineers and they are going through the same growth patterns. I support the one poster's signature line which states 'If you you expect what you've learned to outlive you ...........then give it away!'

Notwithstanding all the above points, in my short time as a member on this forum I have noted a lot of regular posters whose technical knowledge is extensive and this is what, for me, is a major attraction.

I would agree that if you haven't anything constructive to say then rather don't - perhaps that will prevent new posters/members from being discouraged. If you wish to assist someone in constructing their questions then don't be sarcastic or insulting.

Hopefully the activity on CR4 will not slow down to the stage where it loses it's attraction. This is one of my daily 'fixes' which I enjoy!

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#22

Re: Not Many Questions

07/17/2011 4:25 AM

I wonder about another problem: grotesquely silly posts that are not deleted, and that make the CR4 site look very unprofessional. A recent offender is zen, and in the past we have had AGuest and portugal philip, as well as any number of over-unity enthusiasts and such like.

I try to be relatively tolerant of student questions, even homework. After all, everyone starts out naive. But there is naive, and then there is NAIVE. "Give me the document on boiler design" is a bad request; there is no such document, and a full reply would require furnishing a textbook.

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#24

Re: Not Many Questions

07/17/2011 8:43 AM

I too think much has to do with the way people are treated here. I find this forum very helpful but at times I find people get bashed. If someone comes here looking for answers, often the first thing out of someones mouth (or keyboard in this case) is Google. Well, have you ever had one of those times, and i think we all have, when we just blurt out the question or answer without thinking, or when you do something really stupid and hope noone saw it? We sometimes have to realize that people arent always as privilaged as we are and they can go to school and learn all kinds of things, but the one thing that isnt taught is critical thinking. People dont often know how to find the answer, even though many of us the first thing we do is Google. Many of these people have language barriers as well, so even though to them they are asking a legitimate question, to us they have left out too much and then they get bashed. We sometimes have to take a step back and say, "hey, I remember when I asked stupid questions just like this"

Point is, I think many here have chased away young impressionable people simply by treating them with arrogance and treating them like they are stupid (granted some of them might be, but we should give the benefit of the doubt.)

Remember , if you go into the lion pit once and get attacked it is a learning experience, if you go several times and get attacked then you probably wont go back again. In other words I think the forum has chased people away.

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#25

Re: Not Many Questions

07/17/2011 9:07 AM

The questions being asked are better questions. If we ask stupid questions, we get called stupid, and told to go to google. I think most people have done that, often deciding that this is not a friendly forum. (poor sensitive souls)

Not quite what I feel, but then, I like swimming with sharks. I figure if I want a friend, I'll get a dog. If I want a partner, I'll get married. And if I want a colleague who knows how I think, I will come here and chat with folks here.

Worked for me. Now, I rarely ask a question here...I ask google, not you guys. And instead of answering any body else's question with an opinion, I always salt my answers with more than one google reference to back my opinions up. Saves a lot of arguements. Though I do note that there are some who, when I say the sky is blue, they automatically argue that it is red.

So my bet on why there are fewer questions here than five years ago? Well, all the fools have left.

(The first answer I have made this year without any google references to back me up.)

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#26

Re: Not Many Questions

07/17/2011 9:10 AM

From a CR4 administrator's point of view:

  • Tornado provided a good answer regarding how to determine the number of new posts per day: http://cr4.globalspec.com/comment/752411/Re-Not-Many-Questions
  • kramarat provided a good explanation of why there may not be so many posts: http://cr4.globalspec.com/comment/752377/Re-Not-Many-Questions

Thanks, guys, for saving me some typing! We at CR4 (and CR4's partners) do generate some content and that's what you see on the right side of the homepage. Anything on the left is generated by the users - all of you. It's also up to you to have the discussion (comments).


I'm not sure how to encourage users to create more new questions. The site has been around awhile; could it be that some of our long-term users don't really have any more questions? Are some of our users skilled in searching the archives or Google for answers instead? Are new users scared off by non-answers or negative responses?


I read a few of the comments about the poor treatment of some users. My thoughts on that are if you aren't going to constructively help someone then don't waste your time by responding negatively. Use your time to help someone else instead. CR4 isn't a place for chasing people out - that'll happen naturally if they get no response - it's intended to be a community for sharing what you know and learning from others.


If anyone has any suggestions for generating discussion please feel free to let me know. We try to blog and post the Engineering News stories to spark discussion within the community. Let us know what gets you talking!

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#28
In reply to #26

Re: Not Many Questions

07/17/2011 11:14 AM

I have a ton of questions... and more coming every day.. but I don't have as much time as I did last year, now that I have to work for a living...I only get a half hour a day.

I could generate a long list of topics and questions.... but I personally like to have active particpation in each of my topics and as much guidance as I can. that takes time, over days.

and one poster said 'summer is outdoors' was right too.

As to bashing dumb questions... I think that it can be done respectfully, but it is still a necessary function. It is important in learning to be able to differentiate, thresh, sort, categorize, and connect ideas. The bashing should be a form of 'smartening up'. It should not discourage questions, but stimulate the person to actually think more before asking. Often simple questions have promoted the most interesting discussions, and are that way because they were phrased intriguingly... even for simple subjects, there are always things we don't know or think about.

Sometimes I am the person asking dumb questions, and sometimes I give appropriate replies, and sometimes I have been sarcastic or critical.

for example... here are some simple dumb questions on the spur of the moment (whatever that is):

  • Is Time (Present Moment) Analog or Digital, Wave or Particle, or Other?
  • How long in duration is the 'present moment' actually? or perceived?
  • Is it (Present Moment) measurable?
  • Why don't we appear to have a Time sensor in Us? (or do we?) Are clocks false measures? It would seem a simple function. (Sometimes hours can slip away without noticing... but also my subconsious can sometimes wake me up to the minute of when I visualized I would wake up..)

Lastly, I found the following statement by Keith Grewar very intriguing... because this site isn't designed for 'us' to help anyone pose questions... but perhaps it could?

"If you wish to assist someone in constructing their questions then don't be sarcastic or insulting."

Chris

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#47
In reply to #28

Re: Not Many Questions

07/17/2011 7:51 PM

Why don't we appear to have a Time sensor in Us? (or do we?)

Chris, we do have a time sensor in us. Google "circadian rhythm". There are three cycles that affect us, and the effect is strongest, both positively and negatively, when the cycles synch periodically. You can also teach your body to synch your resting pulse rate with the clock, allowing your subconscious to signal you after a preselected number of heartbeats. I do not have much success when I am active due to variabiliy in my pulse rate.

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#39
In reply to #26

Re: Not Many Questions

07/17/2011 3:15 PM

First of all, do I need to read all of the posts before I post my own reply or comment? Of course, I have my own answer to that and besides, was it a rhetorical question?

Here is my point.

There are both questions and discussion. This thread is about new questions. Well, what about old questions? or about questions about answers to old questions? Perhaps you might call that discussion.

Sure I can go to Google and look up an "answer" to a question. But can I believe it? Am I one who just accepts what some authority states? or would I rather see some discussion and consensus about what other factors need to be considered? What if I find two or more conflicting answers? Or no answer? or misdirected answers?

Say you want to find out about my personal experience with political persecution and torture in Canada? Well, you won't find it on Google. It is on the web (I posted it) but I am sure that you won't find it.

This reply, which is a comment, which I am making for discussion, is that there are many questions and it is just that many, if not most, are not posted as a new thread question. The problem becomes then that no one sees these "new" questions are they are hidden/imbedded in the answers/discussion of other questions.

Again, from my experience, if I carefully research a topic and study previous answers to similar questions or even the exact same question that I might want to ask, I find that if I pose my question as a new reply to an old posting, well, I don't think it is that no one replies because they don't have an answer but rather that they don't see the question.

I got the impression that I should not repost a question if a thread was already started. But if the answer is still not clear or complete, then what?

There appears to be a daily digest that lists recent questions and answers and one can subscribe to being notified of new comments to a particular Forum Thread but I am unaware of a mechanism for finding new questions or comments about old threads that everyone else has stopped talking about years ago.

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#40
In reply to #39

Re: Not Many Questions

07/17/2011 3:26 PM

This is my opinion... but I'd suggest that it's okay to repost very old questions. Of course you run the risk of attracting the wrath of old-timers that will point out the error of your ways, in no uncertain terms. But, I would think that if you rephrase the question, you mention that it was already discussed before, and that you make mention of certain facts that were already established and also mention exactly what aspects were not covered to your satisfaction... you would be perfectly alright in recycling certain old questions. Not from last week, mind you... but from years gone by, I guess.

The other option would be to just post to the old question. But I understand that it may not get the attention that you'd hope for, and be missed by many people.

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#49
In reply to #39

Re: Not Many Questions

07/17/2011 8:10 PM

Of course old topics can be discussed again. I think what many are referring to when they say "search first" is the fact that some people come on looking for basic definitions, standards, comparisons, and the like.

Sometimes questions are posed as "define x" in the context of a homework-type question. That answer can be found elsewhere without a the added benefit of opinion. If the question is posed as "define x as it pertains to y in my machine shop and why I should be applying it" - that's where opinion and past experience is relevant and helpful.

It's absolutely a good idea to create a new question thread if a question wasn't answered before.

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#56
In reply to #26

Re: Not Many Questions

07/18/2011 12:15 AM

GA

A fact focused, emotionally neutral, Socratic response, even to not activating the links.

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#27

Re: Not Many Questions

07/17/2011 11:06 AM

Maybe you should post the question on CR4, "Where have the questions gone?"

oops, too late.

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#30
In reply to #27

Re: Not Many Questions

07/17/2011 11:57 AM

I did search for that...

and this is one thing I found, which is really a pretty thorough discussion of issues here.

how will we ever replace Blink?

chris

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#44
In reply to #27

Re: Not Many Questions

07/17/2011 6:45 PM

Dang... I have to give you a GA for that, anyway.

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#45
In reply to #44

Re: Not Many Questions

07/17/2011 6:47 PM

that was too easy, so I took it away and posted OT.

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#46
In reply to #45

Re: Not Many Questions

07/17/2011 7:11 PM

Geeez...!!!! What dyou have, magical powers or sumthin? Are you, like, a "secret shopper" with administrative duties on the sly?

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#48
In reply to #45

Re: Not Many Questions

07/17/2011 8:02 PM

Guess what I did?

Anyway for me CR4 is a microcosm of the world we live in. Every one has his/her place and most of the time when problems are solved it is done very fast and in a friendly atmosphere. If that is something to go buy CR4 is a total success, at least for me.

Now to the CR4 mirror image being a reflection of the planet as a whole. It's just that way. All types, shades of color, religious, political background, location and on and on. I think it is an over the top expectation to try and get all into one mold. Not here nor in a suburb of Karachi or (Fill in here), not anywhere, not even in the small family unit.

Although there is a huge choice of other forums to take part in, this place is still my favorite. I mean I could spend hours on artists websites but having the heads in the clouds syndrome is not one of my favorites. Chatter for chatters sake? I don't think so.

Pragmatic views and reflections upon them can be entertaining and trains ones skill in shutting up or making a point when one sees that there is even a small chance of bringing an idea or suggestion, solution to the forum.

There is only one member who I will not correspond with and that, in my eyes, is a good outcome. There are a few who will not correspond with me but then again I am a bit controversial at times and even some of my best friends would love to smack me around the head sometimes, not to mention the missus.

We all have our limits and to be made aware of them, in a friendly, constructive way is the name of the game. The more humor introduced the better. A funny remark, even if not OT, is a great tool to stay on track and not throw out the baby with the bathwater.

All in all I believe that many friendships have been formed here and possibly a few success stories in cooperation, collaboration and assistance could be counted. I am still planing to build a black bamboo/ leather self loading crossbow and guess who I am going to ask for help once I find the time?

You got it, that's what we should do, help and teach each other, never mind how mundane a question might be. Just help out the ones that know Eff all about what they are planing. Be friendly (I had my moments, I know) and remember how hard it was to avoid the bully, way back then.

I have heaps of questions but like Chris said, it is a mater of time and how to be and stay in a frame of mind to scratch some surface and satisfy ones curiosity. I watch the scratching bit here most days and thought Not Many Questions was interesting enough to warrant a reply.

Love this place, Ky.

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#50
In reply to #48

Re: Not Many Questions

07/17/2011 8:57 PM

well said,

This was the first and is only the only forum I every really on. some cnc forums which was introduce to me here.

But this forum is basically an engineering forum is different which requires critical thinking. To challenge and be challenged. When a member puts a valid challenged that on a subject of substance as well as points to consider. There are times where I take a different view of an issue. Of course the substance has to be more than just an opinion.

And you are correct. CR4 has to be taken in prospective, because it is only a microcosm of the big picture. But I do enjoy it. if not for the information value, atleast for the entertainment value.

your comment hits me:

Pragmatic views and reflections upon them can be entertaining and trains ones skill in shutting up or making a point when one sees that there is even a small chance of bringing an idea or suggestion, solution to the forum.

I initially used it as rehab.

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#51
In reply to #50

Re: Not Many Questions

07/17/2011 9:28 PM

BTW, have you ever not opened an OT post?

I initially used it as rehab.

I still do, Ky.

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#52
In reply to #51

Re: Not Many Questions

07/17/2011 9:31 PM

you mean like this one.......no never!

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#92
In reply to #52

Re: Not Many Questions

07/19/2011 6:28 AM

I just set OT posts to open automatically...some of the best stuff is in there!

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#98
In reply to #92

Re: Not Many Questions

07/20/2011 3:25 AM

Agreed English Rose. Same here on OT posts. Even some ot posts really can have some value.

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#100
In reply to #98

Re: Not Many Questions

07/20/2011 5:00 AM

I'll just try again, nothing much has changed. It's the last page and I wonder how long this is going to go on for.

Anyway for me CR4 is a microcosm of the world we live in. Every one has his/her place and most of the time when problems are solved it is done very fast and in a friendly atmosphere. If that is something to go buy CR4 is a total success, at least for me.

Now to the CR4 mirror image being a reflection of the planet as a whole. It's just that way. All types, shades of color, religious, political background, location and on and on. I think it is an over the top expectation to try and get all into one mold. Not here nor in a suburb of Karachi or (Fill in here), not anywhere, not even in the small family unit.

Although there is a huge choice of other forums to take part in, this place is still my favorite. I mean I could spend hours on artists websites but having the heads in the clouds syndrome is not one of my favorites. Chatter for chatters sake? I don't think so.

Pragmatic views and reflections upon them can be entertaining and trains ones skill in shutting up or making a point when one sees that there is even a small chance of bringing an idea or suggestion, solution to the forum.

There is only one member who I will not correspond with and that, in my eyes, is a good outcome. There are a few who will not correspond with me but then again I am a bit controversial at times and even some of my best friends would love to smack me around the head sometimes, not to mention the missus.

We all have our limits and to be made aware of them, in a friendly, constructive way is the name of the game. The more humor introduced the better. A funny remark, even if not OT, is a great tool to stay on track and not throw out the baby with the bathwater.

All in all I believe that many friendships have been formed here and possibly a few success stories in cooperation, collaboration and assistance could be counted. I am still planing to build a black bamboo/ leather self loading crossbow and guess who I am going to ask for help once I find the time?

You got it, that's what we should do, help and teach each other, never mind how mundane a question might be. Just help out the ones that know Eff all about what they are planing. Be friendly (I had my moments, I know) and remember how hard it was to avoid the bully, way back then.

I have heaps of questions but like Chris said, it is a mater of time and how to be and stay in a frame of mind to scratch some surface and satisfy ones curiosity. I watch the scratching bit here most days and thought Not Many Questions was interesting enough to warrant a reply.

Love this place, Ky.

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#101
In reply to #98

Re: Not Many Questions

07/20/2011 5:03 AM

I'll just try again, nothing much has changed. It's the first page and I wonder how long this is going to go on for.

Anyway for me CR4 is a microcosm of the world we live in. Every one has his/her place and most of the time when problems are solved it is done very fast and in a friendly atmosphere. If that is something to go buy CR4 is a total success, at least for me.

Now to the CR4 mirror image being a reflection of the planet as a whole. It's just that way. All types, shades of color, religious, political background, location and on and on. I think it is an over the top expectation to try and get all into one mold. Not here nor in a suburb of Karachi or (Fill in here), not anywhere, not even in the small family unit.

Although there is a huge choice of other forums to take part in, this place is still my favorite. I mean I could spend hours on artists websites but having the heads in the clouds syndrome is not one of my favorites. Chatter for chatters sake? I don't think so.

Pragmatic views and reflections upon them can be entertaining and trains ones skill in shutting up or making a point when one sees that there is even a small chance of bringing an idea or suggestion, solution to the forum.

There is only one member who I will not correspond with and that, in my eyes, is a good outcome. There are a few who will not correspond with me but then again I am a bit controversial at times and even some of my best friends would love to smack me around the head sometimes, not to mention the missus.

We all have our limits and to be made aware of them, in a friendly, constructive way is the name of the game. The more humor introduced the better. A funny remark, even if not OT, is a great tool to stay on track and not throw out the baby with the bathwater.

All in all I believe that many friendships have been formed here and possibly a few success stories in cooperation, collaboration and assistance could be counted. I am still planing to build a black bamboo/ leather self loading crossbow and guess who I am going to ask for help once I find the time?

You got it, that's what we should do, help and teach each other, never mind how mundane a question might be. Just help out the ones that know Eff all about what they are planing. Be friendly (I had my moments, I know) and remember how hard it was to avoid the bully, way back then.

I have heaps of questions but like Chris said, it is a mater of time and how to be and stay in a frame of mind to scratch some surface and satisfy ones curiosity. I watch the scratching bit here most days and thought Not Many Questions was interesting enough to warrant a reply.

Love this place, Ky.

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#29

Re: Not Many Questions

07/17/2011 11:20 AM

I have to agree with you that it seems that there is a marked decrease in traffic here since I joined 2 years ago. Most likely due to a bunch of factors, all of which have been discussed above, and are very valid.

Probably the worse reason is the gang mentality and their constant sniping. It's happened to me a lot in several threads, with the worse ones happening in the Haiti Shipping Containers blog and the UFO blog. I won't name names (they know who they are, and so do the remaining forum members who witnessed the crappola mudslinging back then), but I think their attacks chased a lot of members away. Oh course, I'm no angel and fought back with tooth and nail, and got reprimanded repeatedly for it. I just couldn't stand peeps constantly questioning my credentials and calling me out onto the carpet. The line was drawn in the sand metaphorically, and when they stepped over the line I declared war as they went to far and didn't offer any public apologies that I insisted on. Probably I was a BIG target for some of them because I'm ex-military and they can't stand the military in any shape or form. Remember, this was happening during the spooling down of Iraq military ops and the spooling up of ops in Crapastan (LOL), and there was a huge (and building) political and public outcry across the nation about our ongoing longterm wars in the SW Asia. As for my attacks back at the perps, my personal defense I believe most likely stems from my Ranger training and background, coupled with a take no prisoners attitude. I just don't take chit....I'll dish it back in Spades if need be. Bad on me, but that's the way the ball bounces.

It, the defamation, got so bad at one point I consulted with my long-time personal attorney and as a result came very very close to filing several lawsuits against the perpetrators as well as GlobalSpec owners and upper management. My attorney was in the advanced process of filing papers in NYS Supreme Court and subpoenaing all necessary GlobalSpec's records, including the names and addresses of the perpetrators. I spent a small fortune for this legal work. anyhow I stopped the legal process after my plans had been revealed here in the Forum and the attacks dwindled quickly. I let it be known to all that I was extremely serious regarding taking legal action. I even took off approximately a month in here and went elsewhere (other online engineering forums) just to cool off the unfortunate situations and further conflagrations.

I eventually came back after the backbiting mostly subsided. the attacks still happen from time to time between members.....mainly due to political differences IMO.....I try to stay out of the limelight and bickering if I can help it. It just isn't worth competing in a spitting contest if you know what I mean. It can wear you down quickly and as a sideline affect your family life.

I think that the powers to be in the Forum need to leverage more authority in regard to "yanking" offenders, either temporarily or permanently. They've been very lax about doing anything to rock the boat with members. I honestly think doing nothing to stop attacks and bickering really scares off newbies in here.....and they elect to avoid the place. That usually happens when un-professionalism conduct prevails, n'est pas?

Just my opinion, based on my unfortunate experiences.

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#31
In reply to #29

Re: Not Many Questions

07/17/2011 12:07 PM

I think that the powers to be in the Forum need to leverage more authority in regard to "yanking" offenders, either temporarily or permanently. They've been very lax about doing anything to rock the boat with members. I honestly think doing nothing to stop attacks and bickering really scares off newbies in here.....and they elect to avoid the place. That usually happens when un-professionalism conduct prevails, n'est pas?

That would be you!

one of the gang who will denigrate any poster who dares to try to educate themselves and insist certain information can only be understood by professionals

You, who would act the wounded party, when are in fact the instigator of the threats & verbal abuse

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#33
In reply to #31

Re: Not Many Questions

07/17/2011 12:35 PM

Please, let's not turn this particular discussion into an attack. It's ok to comment and say "I feel like x" in a general way (especially when it helps explain why you think there are fewer questions posted on CR4). So far everyone's done a good job of not pointing any fingers specifically. Let's try to keep it that way.

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#34
In reply to #31

Re: Not Many Questions

07/17/2011 12:41 PM

How cowardly and absolutely spineless to talk so tough to CaptMoosie and me, as Anonymous #1. That's laughable and so incredibly cliche`. Like a cartoon character. I'd be more respectful to an actual member. But you're a joke. It would have been great if you hadn't started singling someone out, to berate. We'd all avoided that pretty much up til you. You have something nasty to say about a particular member, then say it without hiding, and deal with the consequences. But preferably, you'd have some class and some restraint.

No, CaptMoosie is hardly one of the instigators here.

Grow a pair, and come out from behind the curtain.

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#35
In reply to #34

Re: Not Many Questions

07/17/2011 1:28 PM

Every poster is an "actual member"

Are your or CM's general attacks against the nefarious "gang" any different or better?

http://cr4.globalspec.com/comment/752615/Re-Not-Many-Questions

The generalized sniveling about student questions are part of misguided efforts to impose more controls, which will further stifle the open exchange of ideas

The removal of guest posting privileges along with the changes in moderation scheme are probably prime factors in the loss of vitality of the forum. It is much easier to break something special, than create or improve it

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#36
In reply to #35

Re: Not Many Questions

07/17/2011 2:03 PM

when we joined, we agreed to the rules of conduct for this site. attacking others is proscribed. debating ideas is the purpose.

some get it. some don't. those who don't, get edited.

chris

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#37
In reply to #34

Re: Not Many Questions

07/17/2011 2:21 PM

OBE, thank you very much for the support. I will not respond directly to Anon Poster because you've said it all, and very well at that.

Yes, I hold the stance that if you're operating outside you level of expertise, knowledge and experience in regard to any of engineering disciplines in which you're not well versed, then you have less leg to stand on and less validity in regard to your comment(s), statements of fact, and advice. Than includes LICENSED professionals operating outside their field. In fact, most if not all State Education Departments in the USA, who license PE's, actually frown upon such operations and have ethical codes of conduct. Operate outside your field of expertise, education, knowledge and experience and you could risk sanction or worse, loss of your professional registration and/or license. Worse case scenario is that you will face civil proceedings and possibly end up in prison for a long period of time. There's a very valid reason why only a small percentage of engineering grads ever hold a Professional Engineering License, and that is because those who can't won't earn it, and those that can do deserve it....it's a very difficult path to follow and requires the correct mindset and skill sets.

Also, for some of the techies and non-engineers in here, past and present, posting engineering decrees outside your field and expertise ranks up there with PE's operating outside the licensure laws, with the end result being a downright dangerous practice.....you all should be ashamed of yourselves. I have seen some real whoppers made by some members in this forum where the engineering advice was downright scary and very wrong.....that that poster had no business making such statements. You see that here in this forum. You do not see it in other truly professional engineering forums, such as those frequented by licensed Civil and Structural Engineers. and you never see personal attacks in those other forums either, because if you do so you're history and have no chance of ever being a member of one of those boards again. It's very tough policy and is policed well, and it works. Period, end story.

And yes, I have been "guilty" in the past of pointing out the incorrectness of certain individual's postings, and rightfully so. They hated being called on the carpet for their follies, and when they challenged my statements and then attacked my credentials. I finally relented later on and provided my educational credentials in a separate thread. They never have posted their engineering educational credentials, even after repeated requests....my requests fell on deaf ears as usual with the bunch attacking me.

And yes, I have been intolerant of students coming in here looking for us to solve their homework problems and/or lack of effective study and research. Such a lazy bunch this latest generation of engineering students (and shame on their professors for tolerating it too) that expect instant gratification and answers w/o actually doing the necessary hard work that past engineering generations had done.....I call them "The Entitlement Generation" for a lack of a better terminology or moniker. If these slouches had been one of my students I'd fail them one after another.....domino effect!

And yes, I have been extremely intolerant of individual coming in here looking for us to do their engineering designs or tell them how to construct something (like a building structural element, or water treatment unit process) for no cost. To me, these people are by far the most dangerous of the lot, and too damn cheap to hire a design professional or the appropriate Contractor. Frankly, I'm not in the Consulting Engineering biz to hand out freebie designs and advice online to anon people found anywhere on the planet, as I too have to pay my bills and must fed my family to the best of my abilities.

There's a reason why there are state licensure laws for professionals of all types. To prove to the government (and the public that requires protection from charlatans and non-practitioners etc etc in our society), that the individual meets a minimum required criteria of excellence, knowledge, experience, and last but not least, ethical conduct.....from Doctors, Nurses, Architects, PT's, OT's, and Engineers to name a few. You wouldn't want pre-med student or a layman operating on your brain or heat would you? So what's so different about a tech or non-engineer or non-PE making wrong suggestive engineering advice and decrees outside their sphere of experience and knowledge. I say there is no difference.

I think I know who Anon Poster is, and he's a coward through and through for hiding behind his curtain and for not coming out of his dark closet. It's far easier to attack people when you're operating in that mode. I sure hope that CR4 Moderators are onto him...yes, surely do, and I hope that they suspend the SOB for a long period of time.

I know I'll earn some raspberries here for my statements, but so be it. In the end, whatcha all think of me and are offended by what I post "DON'T MEAN A THING.....DON'T MEAN A THING............" to me. I tells it the way it is, and if you don't like the non-sugared truth, then y'all can crammmmmmit where the sun don't shine! LOL

There, I said my peace for the day......enough said.

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#53
In reply to #37

Re: Not Many Questions

07/17/2011 9:54 PM

Yawn

you trot out your credentials [& ask other for theirs] as if they mean something here

you can only judge a member on the basis of the content a member posts on this site

you can claim not to be replying to my posts, but it's clear you are in fact doing just that

Posting AP is now part of the entertainment

Please feel free to contact the site administrators should you have any concerns about the operational details of CR4

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#32
In reply to #29

Re: Not Many Questions

07/17/2011 12:19 PM

Are you ok?

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#38

Re: Not Many Questions

07/17/2011 3:15 PM

There are many ways one could categorize the types of questions that are asked here. One of those ways would be to categorize them as either cold hard technical questions about actual engineering projects or jobs we're asking advice on... or as simply ambiguous discussions of opinions of why something is as it is, or interesting or notable things about our world. Things of no consequence that simply make a person think.

I've started a few threads of the latter type: physics of rainbows, meaning of "horsepower", favorite science fiction, why my lava lamp lost color, a shout out to military veterans in our ranks, MacGyver moments, etc. These kinds of things are difficult to argue about or take offense to.

In fact, a few times I've actually just come on here and sat and thought about what type of interesting question I could ask, for no other reason than to get interesting discussions going. Not because I need to know a fact or formula... but just because I'm curious. May I suggest that one way to get more questions for CR4 would be for more of us to do just that. I know that some of us do that on occasion, but more would be welcome. There are many mysteries of the universe, both Earthly and non-terrestrial. There are plenty of non-controversial, non-political subjects that are just thought provoking. There is certainly no shortage of brain power here for interesting civil opinions. An added benefit... these kinds of things would not require anyone to post as Anonymous, or to take sides. And we may actually make friends, instead of adversaries.

Just a thought...

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#41
In reply to #38

Re: Not Many Questions

07/17/2011 4:14 PM

A good thought. By providing this forum for candid discussion, CR4 is making possible the assembly of the networked investigative tool that will accomplish future technology development. Here you can participate not just in the conception stage, but also the vetting and refining and learning necessary for "reduction to practice." A clear understanding of what has been tried and an honest appraisal of what is known is necessary to tee up a problem so a solution can come to mind.

I also like how you tolerate newcomers, even if they don't at first seem like they have much to contribute. I think we all enjoy, as you do, the excursions beyond what is known or even probable. And if we get interested, we need to know where to learn and what's important for beginners to know.

I hope CR4 can help the US government's new Energy.data.gov site in accomplishing President Obama's objectives for developing manufacturing. See the report of the President's Council of Advisers on Science and Technology (PCAST) dated June 2011. It is also consistent with the President's policy of involving the citizens with finding solutions to technical problems. Crowdsourcing that technical knowledge is what CR4 is, to my knowledge, the world leader in. NineSigma is the other leading resource, that I know of.

The key is that on CR4 the truth has a chance to be heard, most of the time, except when a couple of the trolls OT it. Ad hominem remarks, etc. do not advance the cause of truth, and are not only tedious, but also take time clicking to read them. So count me in the faction that would place a higher value on civility than on indulgence of fragile egos.

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#42
In reply to #41

Re: Not Many Questions

07/17/2011 4:41 PM

I GA'd you, to cancel the OT someone gave you. Like it or not, your post is certainly not Off Topic. Another mis-use of the OT

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#43

Re: Not Many Questions

07/17/2011 5:55 PM

Well! This question certainly generated lots of answers - mostly unexpected, but probably valid.

After thinking it through, I suspect that the prompt response to "go Google" is probably the big turnoff for people with questions and problems to solve - who probably found CR4 on google in the first place. If they go to ask a question and it tells them to google first, they will go and find another forum.

Good point about civility, no one wants to engage a site where you are immediately flamed. Even if you have thick skin, why waste it, when there are better places to spend your time. I actually thought CR4 had a fairly decent level of civility as a rule, so I guess I missed the worst threads of late.

Seeing as it's summer, there are even fewer questions posted. Good point, time to go back outdoors!

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#54

Re: Not Many Questions

07/18/2011 12:06 AM

I have never liked the "homework" crack. I don't think why a person wants to know as a student is any different to why as a professional 'out of field' wants to know.

In that sense some students are treated constructively and some 'professionals' are not.

Largely it depends on the style of the question. "Arrogance" and "demanding" draw a predictably arrogant and high maintenance 'emotionally driven' "gang".

"Gangs"; this is also an emotionally driven issue. Several posters 'dissecting' a post, is not a 'gang'. It is several people finding things they disagree with. The fact that there is a commonality of 'usual suspects', simply means they are the ones who know more. Hence there is a variable 'gang membership'.

That same "gang", will from time to time, point out a flaw in another 'alleged bangers' argument. Because it is about facts, you will not see 'conflagration' result. This lack of whining wailing and gnashing of teeth between 'the usual suspects' makes the myth that 'gangs' exist easy to perpetuate 'conspiracy' as an emotional issue.

One interesting and constructive observation above is the; 'at first I posted opinion, now I research and back up my position with links to facts' or words to that effect

As a result, nowadays, that member is virtually exempt 'multiple member' negative comment.

It's fair to say Captain Moose has also undergone this evolution, there being a great deal of difference in diligence and attitude between HIC and recent posts - so an equally great difference in "attacks". I am a little surprised at the regression into the past above.

Posting AP: those who take it 'personally/emotionally' and whine to Admin, looking for the 'pseudo bashing' support, are no more 'ballsy' than any AP poster.

At least an AP poster is doing it in full view of their peers.

I find it quite amusing that AP complainants are typically the whiners to Admin.

One thing the above produces is endless page long posts perpetuating 'emotional ferment' as a center of attention - derailing technical input - burying constructive comment in a miasma of uproar. The other is busy work for Admin they don't need.

With this constant background of invented BS, why would a new member think such a forum could calmly answer a question?

Commenting without expertise: there is nothing wrong with this. The idea that all comments must be 'expert' or 'definitive' is frankly ridiculous. Much has been written on Socratic method as an ideal way to 'deal with homework'. It applies to all questions.

A wiki link, may be abrupt, but it is Socratic. "The old guard" sending a poster to past threads, is again Socratic. To paint this as some sort of 'emotional/social/bullying' is divisive, as is the language used to do so.

"Democracy' the number of people right or wrong in a thread can be from a majority to minority.

Voting: given the above, voting with the majority may occlude true understanding. A vote should only be awarded after due diligence on who is actually correct/incorrect, not what you think, or have always thought to be correct. Example

That voting right/pertinent, answers OT is common, as is un-voting GA, on emotional or misguided belief grounds - a new member can be forgiven for thinking less of the forum.

To address the actual topic;

On numbers: Electrical and automotive seem to have plenty of questions.

It largely depends on where you read.

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#57
In reply to #54

Re: Not Many Questions

07/18/2011 12:27 AM

A good answer if ever there was one

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#55

Re: Not Many Questions

07/18/2011 12:10 AM

I'd settle for quality, not quantity, and that naturally doesn't include OP's only. S.M.

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#58

Re: Not Many Questions

07/18/2011 1:23 AM

Sorry I have not counted, but the following entry may be illuminative, - one member, obviously of long standing, asked a question,"Is Low-Cost Chinese Labor Affecting Your U.S. Exports? and as you can see below some presumably drunken member answered with abuse. That terminated the discussion as you would expect, so I conclude that the moderator could take a more active role in removing "What a Yacka**ss Dumba**ss" type entries so as to both discourage such fools and hopefully to promote further discussion on that particular subject as others would then feel they would not get abused as well. Geoff Thomas. - 07/15/2011 6:46 AM Steve Melito Guru Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: http://www.linkedin.com/in/stevemelito Posts: 3491 Good Answers: 32 Is Low-Cost Chinese Labor Affecting Your U.S. Exports? 07/15/2011 6:46 AM New, small companies or developing countries have typically been accused of competing unfairly against older, larger companies or developed countries. Hey, what did the British think about the low-priced textiles from the American colonies who paid no attention to OSHA or environmental damage, paid little or no (local) tax, had no pensions, had no holidays off and even used slave labor? How could the Manchester spinning mills compete? The answer is history. So is the past prologue? Read the Entry and Join the Discussion Reply Report! Pathfinder Tags: China hvac industry hvac manufacturing HVAC market united states Add your own Tags! leveles Power-User Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 426 Good Answers: 20 #1 Re: Is Low-Cost Chinese Labor Affecting Your U.S. Exports? 07/15/2011 1:27 PM What a Yacka**ss Dumba**ss generally and fundamentally antisocial this guy is, I have nothing to do with. I deny racial connections, I refuse genetic connections. I even refuse mammalian connections. Damn his hide.

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#59
In reply to #58

Re: Not Many Questions

07/18/2011 1:35 AM

It's a bit more complicated than it appears

Moose having been a founding moderator & GS blogger, who has reverted to his given name recently

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#60
In reply to #59

Re: Not Many Questions

07/18/2011 2:07 AM

hi Garthh, I noticed yours as a second reply without content, I don't know what goes on there, but I can't imagine that "Moose" if he has been important in developing CR4, would approve of his drunken self's comment. However, if he does, he will certainly know how to reply to your and my posts, - an apology would go a long way, a justification might inspire some good further discussion.. Cheers, Geoff Thomas.

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#61
In reply to #60

Re: Not Many Questions

07/18/2011 4:18 AM

I don't see that Moose/Steve has a case to answer

Nor do I see you having the right to demand an apology, for anything, from anyone.

Though you might consider apologizing for libelous utterances like "his drunken self's comment"

Good grief, this is meant to be an adult site, not 2 year old tantrum playground feud.

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#62
In reply to #61

Re: Not Many Questions

07/18/2011 4:39 AM

Hi 34 point, it was the leveles person made the comment, not Steve, I really think you should read my first post all the way through, particularly leveles attack on "Steve" (Moose? I thought Garthh was implying levele was Moose, I guess it could be read any way, but Steve was never attacking levele, so if you had read the post, you would have seen that levele was calling your mate Moose bad things, - ie and I quote, "What a Yacka**ss Dumba**ss generally and fundamentally antisocial this guy is, I have nothing to do with. I deny racial connections, I refuse genetic connections. I even refuse mammalian connections. Damn his hide." end of quote. Fine, you support your mate Steve/Moose, he has been attacked by the possibly drunken levele, whom I suggested should apologise but the moderator could have excluded, you now accuse me of accusing Steve of drunken stuff? Measure it twice, do it once my old boss said when I was young, read it twice, answer it once, might be a good rule of thumb for this discussion group! Cheers, Geoff Thomas.

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#67
In reply to #62

Re: Not Many Questions

07/18/2011 10:17 AM

I appreciate that - I just don't see why you would try to make an issue of what you incorrectly thought, or what you incorrectly thought Gathh thought, he having pointed out your incorrectness of thought. Perhaps too subtlety.

For the record; Moose is about as far from my "mate" as any member could be.

That He has no case to answer is just a fact.

I fail to see where you lot get these juvenile fantasies.

"Measure it twice, do it once"

Did you mean "Measure twice, cut once"?

One is clumsy, the other elegant.

And knowing how to make paragraph and punctuate for recitation, would not hurt, given you claim to be an author of some standing.

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#84
In reply to #67

Re: Not Many Questions

07/18/2011 10:52 PM

Hi, 35 point5, I am not making any issue about anything except leveles' words, "What a Yacka**ss Dumba**ss" etc. Measure once do it twice? yes, there is more than just cutting with most jobs, whether you think it elegant or no, but that is possibly a topic for another discussion if it concerns you. Cheers, Geoff.

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