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Dealing With the Company BS'er.

03/29/2012 10:08 PM

As many of of you are aware I started a new job a few months ago working as a locomotive fuel technician. Its a fun and easy job with what I view as very good pay for what little actual labor I do in a average day as well.

As of late I have been dealing with the person who is at this point our acting manger and I have come to view him as completely full of bullsh!t. Basically what he claims to be true and company operating process is easily proved to be completely untrue and total made up far too often. Apparently he thinks he knows far more about certain subjects than me, many of which relate to my previous working jobs that are heavy in the industrial process equipment and related tech work.

I am not going to into details here but lets say what he says is true are so easily proved wrong and to be outright lies its sad such as things he claims to exist clearly don't and such.

I am curious to hear from others as to how they have dealt with situations such as this before. I am half tempted to call him out on many of these fantasy's but at the moment we still need him here due to the limited work force we have at this time. He does his job well enough but frankly the unjustified superior attitude and made up BS that backs it is getting to the rest of us.

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#1

Re: Dealing with the company BS'er.

03/29/2012 10:18 PM

Here's one viewpoint on that type of situation. "There's a support group for that..."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ph9I-qPQ6FU

(The first few seconds of the video portion of the link are scrambled.)

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Dealing with the company BS'er.

03/29/2012 10:32 PM

I don't hate my job.

In fact its very entertaining here to say the least! Most days I look forward to coming in just to see what new story about "how things work according to Bob" is going to come next!

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#3

Re: Dealing with the company BS'er.

03/29/2012 10:36 PM

Back him to the hilt, bite your tongue, find his actual strengths and play to them.

As you get better, try to keep him there and out of areas he doesn't need to be in.

He may be scared to death of you. He may be an idiot. Build trust and see if it dampens his excursions from reality.

It is hard work managing a manager, but if his success is your success...

They don't just buy our skills, they also buy our loyalty.

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Dealing with the company BS'er.

03/29/2012 11:07 PM

I do play to his strengths the best I can and I do appreciate his work but some times I have to literally step out of the room for a bit to keep from laughing or calling him on his BS.

Lets just say that what he told me today was in the 50 year old Mechanical building next to our office was outrageous enough to prompt me to write up this thread.

BTW the door to said building is not locked and we can enter it at any time we need to so believe me I double checked to see and sure enough none of what he said was in there.

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Dealing with the company BS'er.

03/29/2012 11:35 PM

Based on your comments and previous experience with him carefully consider if he may have some mental issues instead.

No joke here, seriously.

Take that into consideration (just in case), he may not be an ass after all.

Just saying......

Either that or you may intimidate him and he is trying to assert himself, or is way over-promoted for his position. Whatever you decide to do be careful not to burn your bridges, generally people like this are found out for what they are and removed away from the productive stream where they can cause the least damage.

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#8
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Re: Dealing with the company BS'er.

03/30/2012 12:31 AM

Unfortunately the possible mental/chemical imbalance issues explanation crosses my mind as being the most probable explanation far too often. I am no psychologist by any means but many of his actions scream OCD in one form or another. (The office and trucks stay really clean though!)

On some days and topics he is as normal as anyone and then there the other times that just leave me thinking about how fast the 911 crew can get here.

To be honest I am at a loss as to how to properly approach this sort of issue with him or the upper level people in the company if it becomes necessary.

"generally people like this are found out for what they are and removed away from the productive stream where they can cause the least damage."

I have entertained that thought and maybe he already has been removed from the productive stream of the company and we are the dumping ground that got him.

As I have stated before he is not a bad guy to be around and tends to be a fair worker its mostly the outrageous stories and the like related to our work that have me bewildered.

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#6

Re: Dealing with the company BS'er.

03/29/2012 11:36 PM

Its a fun and easy job with what I view as very good pay for what little actual labor I do in a average day as well.

Now who's full of BS, you cannot have it all you know.

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#7
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Re: Dealing with the company BS'er.

03/30/2012 12:14 AM

So you are saying that despite that I usually only put in 1 - 5 hours of actual work while I am here plus come and go as I please when there is no work and I am solidly in the middle class income bracket...

Did I mention I have a hot wife who can cook who has had a well recognized career working as an Interior Architect for the super wealthy as well?

Okay if it wasn't happening to me I wouldn't believe it either. I sort of think this is karmas way of making up for the years of crap work with low pay, bad boss's and back stabbing coworkers I already put in.

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#9

Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

03/30/2012 7:35 AM

New work attire might get the message across.

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#75
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Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

04/02/2012 10:43 AM

GA, nicely done.

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#76
In reply to #75

Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

04/02/2012 10:54 AM

Is there model when you in over your head?

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#77
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Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

04/03/2012 10:31 AM
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#10

Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

03/30/2012 7:45 AM

You just described every boss I've ever had. I thought I'd get away from it when I became self employed.........................but no. My boss is still a jackass.

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

03/30/2012 8:12 AM

You need to chill out.

Next thing you know, you're gonna be sitting at home explaining to your beautiful wife that everyone is stupid but you, and how you can't possibly understand how you can be unemployed..........................again.

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#16
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Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

03/30/2012 9:34 PM

Fortunately for me both my wife and I have taken our fair share of lumps along the way and are reasonably well grounded in the reality that neither of us knows every thing. That and that from many past examples set by others that lying and BS'ing people to get ahead in anything never ever works to your advantage in the end.

I wont go into details about what stories have been postulated at work but trust me if I told them here no one with any level of basic knowledge of the subjects would believe them either.

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#12

Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

03/30/2012 9:41 AM

You're a brave man posting this in open forum (unless on-one in your company is an engineer with an internet-connected PC).

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#13
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Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

03/30/2012 10:44 AM

Maybe that was the idea!

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#14

Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

03/30/2012 10:48 AM

I'm sorry, you must have mistaken me for someone who gives a $#!t what you say!

How's that? and I wonder why I get into trouble, not

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#18
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Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

03/30/2012 9:43 PM

Unfortunately my nature is to give the benefit of the doubt in most cases because some times truth is far stranger than fiction but at some point I start putting an effort into checking others "facts" to see if they are actual facts or if they are misunderstood beliefs or improperly explained concepts.

When both of those plausibilities have been ruled out then yes I have to call a BS'er a BS'er and nothing less.

Lets just say the facts didn't fit our reality and the chances of this being misunderstandings pretty much ended when the supposed physical proof was not to be found in any way shape or form where it was said to be.

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#15

Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

03/30/2012 10:54 AM

tcm,

Man oh man can I relate!

You can never get a word in edgewise to provide facts as the pontificating "master" always has the last word.

I heard a saying very early in my career that still pops into my head when dealing with a "master" - "You can educate dumb but you can't fix stupid".

As I am sure you are aware, time has a way of dealing with life's little nuisances especially in the work place.

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#17
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Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

03/30/2012 9:36 PM

Exactly!

Have you worked with this guy as well?

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#19

Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

03/30/2012 11:04 PM

I was one of those. I think it was a nervous affliction. I think I was trying to be like the "old hands" who knew it all...showing any lack of knowledge meant I was showing weakness. I was cured of it when I was made a teacher. Students will ferret out bs quicker than you can say Jack Robinson.

Now that I am an "old hand", I know to pick and choose my battles. Stick to the things I know. Don't be scared to show I don't know something. Humility does not inspire confidence in pilots though. Or home owners. Or customers in general come to think of it.

Arrogance WILL get you promoted.

And then there are the things you know for sure that just ain't so. That's different....and more insidious.

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#20

Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

03/30/2012 11:27 PM

Try this to start with. The first sentence of the book "How to win friends and influence people" goes like this. Never criticize, condemn or complain. If you can put up with it, he will end up realizing over time that you knew all along he was full of bull and will love you for not making a fool of him.

Also when you find yourself listening to pure BS then you can just say something like "where did you come by that information, I would like to read more about it" He will have to look in the mirror and see himself in the intellectual bind that he is in because he won't be able to back up what he is saying.

If you confront him you will make an enemy and none of us need anymore of those.

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#22
In reply to #20

Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

03/31/2012 12:55 AM

That has been an approach I have learned to use rather well being I learned it the hard way myself a long time ago but some days it just gets rather hard to hold my tongue though.

I clearly don't know everything but I do know enough to keep to my strong points and admit to my ignorance anywhere else which in this case is why I posted this thread. I would and do appreciate any useful tips from anyone who has dealt with similar incidences so I can be better prepared myself.

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#34
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Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

03/31/2012 12:02 PM

I have dealt with type of personality on many occasions and have always made sure that the person had no idea how I felt about him. The technique I mentioned about asking where a piece of information that he BSed about could be found so I could read it a learn more shut him up completely after a few months of dealing with him. He went on his way and put his BS on others instead of me.

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#21

Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

03/31/2012 12:53 AM

Life is full of annoying people, twisted people, stupid people, dishonest people, etc., etc., etc. Obviously, you cannot avoid your manager, so you'd better learn how to cope and cover yourself a.s.a.p. If his b.s. has the potential to cause problems for the company, then I would be sure to email your questions to him instead of (or in addition to) having these b.s. sessions. If need be, send a friendly email something like: "Just to make sure we're on the same page, did I (or the team) understand you correctly when you said the policy (or process or whatever) is...? Thanks for your anticipated clarification and guidance." You might even want to c.c. some other team members. This will cover you in case of potential problems that you don't want to be blamed for. See how much of his fabricating he is willing to do in that format! I agree with the previous comment that this post is dangerous also in that you've told us the location and nature of your business. Don't let your frustration result in losing your job. Remember the old saying: "Never bite the hand that feeds you." Be strong and hang in there while you outsmart him with kindness and stroke his ego with your sincere sounding requests for his "guidance". I suspect he needs to b.s. because he lacks confidence and doesn't like to admit that he doesn't know everything ;).

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#23
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Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

03/31/2012 1:07 AM

Unfortunately I am not one to hide behind smoke and mirrors and I tell it how I see it.

As far as loosing my job I am not all that worried about it being that for one I have not said anything bad about my company rather I appreciate where I am at and am trying to gain insight from those who may be more knowledgeable than me that come from a much broader experience base than what I have available locally.

If the company I work for does not want resourceful people who are willing to go above and beyond to better themselves and the future of our company relations by using open and honest communication with anyone I/we deal with then they should probably take that out of our handbooks, company guide literature, and training videos!

I feel I have nothing to hide being I am not bad mouthing the company, the customer or our procedures. I just have concerns over my dealings with a person that may have other issues in his life that are affecting our workplace negatively.

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#24
In reply to #23

Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

03/31/2012 2:26 AM

Methinks the wench doth protest too much... If he isn't hurting the company, let it ride. I note you're making statements about how you're a particular kind of person who does things a particular way. But you want this guy to change. Think about it.

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#33
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Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

03/31/2012 11:10 AM

You replied "I feel I have nothing to hide being I am not bad mouthing the company, the customer or our procedures."

...Seriously??? You are bad mouthing your superior on a public forum! I'd suggest that you learn to cope with the situation and take some advice or if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen! Office politics is a reality of life and the sooner you learn that, the better off you'll be. Sorry, but you sound like you need some tough love on this one.

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#36
In reply to #33

Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

03/31/2012 12:13 PM

It's not like it's facebook.........................I have no idea who tcm is or where he works.

Heck, if all the lousy bosses and lazy coworkers in the US are monitoring this thread, they're gonna swear it's about them.

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#37
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Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

03/31/2012 1:05 PM

Well the facebook club here aught to be going nuts with gossip over me this week then huh? (You guys know who you are and so do a bunch of others here as well.)

I read every post here carefully and see what fits my situation and what doesn't.

As far as my intimidating people well I am 37 years old 6'3" 250# muscular build with a friendly and outgoing a justifiably confident personality who is well known for being very patient and a good listener, not a worrier by nature and always helpful, and I have an inquisitive mind with an average IQ thats on the high end of the 140's plus I play well with others and little kids and animals seem to naturally like me.

So yea I could be seen as intimidating by anyone who considers themselves to be lesser than myself (Thats their problem not mine).

The thing is with this thread is that I have not put any high level of detail relating to whom I am or what I am dealing with. I am not against the guy or my company in any way and I do at times find his input and knowledges very useful at work. The issue is his outrageous level of BS and how to deal with it properly without causing problems in the company for anyone.

Simply put how do I keep me and my coworkers and those who we deal with directly from getting buried alive in his BS storms? I don't care if he sinks himself in them I am quite aware of the company gossip that he has done it a few times now in other locations which is why he most likely does not hold a permanent managers position any more and got put in to the traveling fill in guy position in the first place. I am
just taking a guess at that though because I can't get him to open up about that subject in order to get his first hand view of what may of may not have went on.

Yes I am answering multiple comments with this post and not just yours.

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#38
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Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

03/31/2012 1:26 PM

Part of my problem is that I am brutally honest with people. I'm a big guy too 6' 4", 280 lbs. and I still climb ladders as part of my job. Being big doesn't help matters. There's a certain degree of intimidation that others feel. It gets worse if you're big and smart. Due to your size, a suggestion may be taken quite differently than if it was coming from someone that is skinny and 5' 7". Again, this isn't because of anything you're doing wrong........................but you can't change perception. A good idea may feel like some kind of threat to some of those around you.

There are lots of good posts here. Use your people skills and good nature to your advantage, help out where you can, ignore the bull$hit, concentrate on the time with your wife and the fun you can have with the money you get from work, and carry on.

It's just work.....................it doesn't matter where it is or who the other players are, certain aspects of it are always going to suck.

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#40
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Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

03/31/2012 3:46 PM

Back when I used to go to bars, I had no idea, but certain individuals would plot to beat the crap out of me..................simply because I was the biggest guy in the room. I'm no fighter, so it always took me by surprise. Since I'm not a boxer, the only thing that kept me out of fights was the collective knowledge that if I got a hold of someone that was punching me................they were finished. No one wanted to be that person. And since I'm not a fighter, we all got to know each other and it was cool.

It only happens a few times a year, but if I run into someone that is bigger than me, the first thing I think, is that I want to be friends with them. The second thing I think about, is how would I be able to quickly disable them in a fight.

Just running off at the mouth....................but it may help.

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#41
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Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

03/31/2012 4:14 PM

Thats on my top ten reasons to not go to bars very much as well either. Especially country wanker bars. There is always some sawed off lil redneck out to prove something even if it means getting his arm ripped off so someone can give him a right proper beating with it.

As far as bigger and smarter than me well I try to seek out those who can teach me anything even remotely useful and be friends with them also. You never know when you may need the advice of someone or a group of people who have been there and done that and came out on top in the end.

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#45
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Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

03/31/2012 4:52 PM

Well dude. The answer to this question depends solely on what your aspirations are.

Are you looking to run the company one day, or are you looking for a paycheck?

Nobody can answer that but you.

You have to remember, that the guys that run companies are not good at making widgets or pumping gas, they are good at getting other people excited about it.

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#43
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Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

03/31/2012 4:23 PM

I've always found it the smaller (than me) guys that try to pick fights...I ignore them unless they touch me or my wife! Then I just touch them back!

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#42
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Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

03/31/2012 4:16 PM

You're so right! I'm sure there are thousands of 37 year old, married, 6'3, 250 pound, muscularly built locomotive fuel technicians working for companies with 50 year old mechanical building annexes, near Minot, North Dakota under a guy (possibly named Bob, if that is his real name), who used to be in a permanent management position, but was demoted to a traveling, fill-in, temporary manager.

I'm trying to help you, tcmtech (and I'm beginning to pity the temporary manager, as he has no defense here)!! If you must vent about your livelihood (and we all need to sometimes), you need to vent to your wife or someone who will keep your confidence and not with specifics on the world wide web and certainly not with coworkers. Use that 140+ I.Q. of yours!!!

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#44
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Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

03/31/2012 4:40 PM

Oh for cryin' out loud...........................I suppose I could track down tcm, but quite frankly, I don't care.

At the risk of hurting the feelings of admin, there are about 40 regulars on CR4. My guess is that nobody really cares about what we are talking about. The internet is a vast place.

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#48
In reply to #44

Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

03/31/2012 5:15 PM

I know you don't care, but I do. I hate to see a young guy destroy his career.

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#49
In reply to #48

Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

03/31/2012 5:42 PM

If his ability to turn a profit for whoever he is working for, runs anywhere close to his ability to run his mouth, his career will be just fine.

Companies are profit motivated...............period. The people that help them achieve that goal will thrive. The rest will fall by the wayside.

They will also go out of their way to get you eliminated if they can.

Screw the other idiots. If tcm makes himself into a commodity that equals profit for the company, he will do well. This is not freaking rocket science. I've always liked the quote, "Life isn't a dress rehearsal".

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#53
In reply to #42

Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

03/31/2012 11:28 PM

Actually you would be very surprised to find out how many people fit that general age physical and work description around here. Maybe not the train part but the rest is very familiar job/work environment descriptions known by far too many people.

(and no his name is not Bob.)

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#73
In reply to #53

Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

04/02/2012 10:06 AM

BE CAREFUL! THE DAYS OF ANY COMPANY BASING THEIR DECISION AS TO WHO THEY KEEP EMPLOYED OR NOT SOLELY ON THAT PERSON'S INTELLIGENCE, EXPERIENCE, AND/OR PERFORMANCE IS LONG GONE.

TODAY MOST, IF NOT ALL USA BASED COMPANIES ARE FOCUSED STRICTLY ON PERSONALITY AND PERSONAL BEHAVIOR.

You would do well to think fast, consider all aspects before responding and speak slowly.

Speaking from personal experience;

Just because you are not "bad mouthing" your employer does not mean that there will not be serious "knee-jerk" consequences for anything you say during/in the "heat of the battle" especially when you are frustrated and out of control.

This behavior fits under the heading of "non-team-player", "non-team support", "non-Team-#$%^&" as well as whatever other heading HR wants to deam applicable.

Exhibiting any of these types of behavior will indicate you are a risk to the prevalent HR based business culture and therefore an employee that needs to "go away".

FACT: If you are perceived as a not being a "team-player' and/or you are perceived as a threat or liability, your employment will be terminated despite your best intentions.

You know, you could also be undergoing testing to determine how you react under duress.

Be cool and vent elswhere in private.

You have received a great deal of good advice already and you would do well to digest it.

Let this be one of those unpleasurable occurances in life that you can learn from it then look back at in the future and laugh about it or at least know you made the right choice.

Good luck.

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#74
In reply to #73

Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

04/02/2012 10:11 AM

Games, sure you don't have to play the games in the company, BUT, you have to know how the games are played. It's up to the individual to decide what to do. Stay true to yourself I find the best way.

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#57
In reply to #42

Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

04/01/2012 1:49 AM

Wow you have some time on you hands. Do karmarat.

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#60
In reply to #57

Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

04/01/2012 9:48 AM

No. Actually I had some tequila on my hands. Lyn started talking about it last weekend, so I went and got a bottle. Finished it off last night. Everything's back to normal. The tequila bug is dead for another 3-4 years.

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#56
In reply to #36

Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

04/01/2012 1:43 AM

Maybe it hit too close to home. :/

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#25

Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

03/31/2012 3:59 AM

Having read the comments, it would seem that your acting manager is full to the brim of BS. Acting Manager? First time in this position? Sounds it to me, and he's more scared of screwing up than anyone else. So to give that air of authority, "Knowledge is power" so the saying goes.. he (so it would seem) spouts mindless BS to one and all in an attempt to prove (mainly to himself) that he is the boss..

How to deal with it?

Yes you can call him on what he says.... BUT.... what happens if he makes Manager?

You then become a permanent feature in his cross hairs!!

Think about this.. if you have noted is excessive amount of BS then I bet (and I don't gamble) that your co-workers have also noted it too! Try quietly asking your friends at work, if this guy has always been like this, try finding out if they also think he is full of it!

But you must be careful, if he's been there several years or more and that to many people mean he could be regarded as the Alpha male, then you are opening a can of worms.

If he is the "Alpha male".. then you have several options open to you..

1. You leave, if you can't stand it.

2. Ignore it.

or 3. Ignore it and wait until he gives himself enough rope that you can hang him with it!

Now point 3 works better, because you as a newbie, will have to fit into the working dynamics of your work environment, not the other way around. Once you are in, and you build up respect from you co-workers, then you can start unraveling his thread.

But before I finish.. there is one last point that I've not covered (sorry if its been mentioned before)... YOU intimidate him, you scare him, you worry him, he is threatened by you, your presence and what he perceives as your superior knowledge.

I have no idea what you look like, you body frame, weight, how you carry yourself, or what this guy looks like. Your presence alone might make him feel insecure.

I mention this as it happens to me all the time. I'm a big guy and (even if I do say so myself) I know my stuff. Just my size alone and my confidence, the way I carry myself is enough to throw folk a curve ball and they get all flustered & defensive.. As they say the best form of defence is attack.

So maybe this guy is feeling insecure, threatened and alone.. and if he's new to the position then he's hyper about screwing up.. and you my friend are the preverbal straw.

I wish you luck with your problem.. but truthfully there is no definitive answer.. only your maturity and common sense will prevail...

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#26

Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

03/31/2012 5:47 AM

These guys are promoted upwards to get rid of them. Don't the people who pomote him notice he's full of BS? No. because guess how they got there.

Write a book. You can't get him, because he'll get you back later, from above.

reflection is a good tool, as other have said; say back to him what he has just said to you, and see if he can stick it.

Write a book about the hilarious stories..

I can see from how you respond to each comment that you are thorough, have a great sense of justice, you are reliable and trustworthy... you were buying all that right? Don't give him a load more stories to make up about how awful you are, give him opportunities to big you up

cnc

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#27

Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

03/31/2012 7:52 AM

It is puzzling why no one has noticed that you, who puts in 1 to 5 hours a day, and who clearly does not know everything (your own words), has not been recognized in your new job as someone who is clearly superior to your boss, who is prone to prognosticating. Your effort to understand the predicament is probably well served by posting on an engineering blog. I hope the mystery reveals itself; I have a feeling it will.

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#28

Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

03/31/2012 8:58 AM

kramarat said "You need to chill out. Next thing you know, you're gonna be sitting at home explaining to your beautiful wife that everyone is stupid but you, and how you can't possibly understand how you can be unemployed..........................again."

disregard this at your own risk, he has 267 good answers under his name !!!

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#29
In reply to #28

Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

03/31/2012 9:09 AM

Whoa....................lets not get carried away here. At least 2/3 of those are probably because I cracked a joke or said something that someone agreed with......................not necessarily something smart.

I appreciate it, but I figured I should set the record straight. Many of the GAs in the count have about as much meaning as being a guru.

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#30

Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

03/31/2012 9:26 AM

Bosses (managers) come and go. They are just the filters for top management and their policies (which also come and go). We all know that the the success of the company is based on the quality of the regular "Joes". If we do our job well and stay out of trouble the whole company benefits. If we bite our tongues and make the boss look good to his/her superior then we also look good. I tell my boss, who is OK, that my prime job is to make him look good. This inherently implies that I have skills he does not and that I recognize that as well as he should

This is not to say that correction of the managers wrong thought process should not be pointed out. Just do it in one on one. He/she will then realize that you are valuable to him/her and will hopefully view you as necessary to their success.

In the end they will be found out for their shortcoming and be promoted out of your way (Peter Principle) or get fired for their own stupidity.

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#31

Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

03/31/2012 9:34 AM

Sorry, but I must say,'take the boy[man] under your wing. Lets call him 'John'..John let me show you what I trying to do and I need your input. Show him the project, get his input, ideas and keep him busy, research, development, busy work, anything. If you complete the project, Great. Brag him up, look what me and john came up with..Tough roll to hoe, but the others will award you for keeping him busy..To much idle time equals bull crap..Trying to justify your position equals bull crap..Trying to make friends, equals bull crap..Having something to do ends the bull crap..Ole Dale C. has the answer, read the book or take the course....

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#32

Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

03/31/2012 11:01 AM

Lots of good answers here tcmtech. Most are of the "soft answer turneth away wrath" variety. Personally, I don't play well with others, and I suspect neither do you. But you have the time at work to play the game and so you better learn to play it right. Do you want the guy destroyed? Replaced? Straightened out? Ignored? Demoted? Different goals, different strategies will be required in each case. At least a BS boss is easier to deal with than a bully.

For me, when I had one of the delusional bosses it was quite an effort to change the working environment around to make me fire proof. I had to separate out the things he said which affected me and my career from the things which were just compulsive story telling. I kept a note book on the the things which affected my career, and at a subsequent court martial, that notebook came in VERY handy. Nuff said about that...you smart guy, you keep notebook safe, you betcha. Saved MY career. Who cares about his?

And heck, you are in a sweet job, with a sweet position.

Maybe you should not do much of anything.

A story is appropriate.

A little bird was late flying south for the winter and the late season and an early squall caused his wings to experience icing, so he ended up setting down in a farmers barn yard. Cold and miserable, he was about to cash in his chips when a large bovine who just happened by dumped a load right on his head. The warmth revitalized him, revved his motor up and he stuck his head out of the steaming pile and began to sing. As birds are wont to do. The local barn cat heard the crowing, and crept up, fished the little bird out of the pile and ate him. There are three morals to this story.

1. Not everybody who gets you into sh*t is your enemy.

2. Not everybody who gets you out of sh*t is your friend.

3. If you are snug and happy in a pile of sh*t, don't crow about it.

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#35
In reply to #32

Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

03/31/2012 12:05 PM

I've always kept my mouth shut and worked as hard or harder than anyone around me. Sometimes it takes a while, but the time comes when the people that make the decisions, take notice. Crap floats for awhile.....................but all of it eventually sinks.

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#39

Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

03/31/2012 1:34 PM

I guess I'd call him on the ones that are easily disproved, like the missing "framzoola" that he claimed was in the Mechanical Bldg next door. Tell him you were so curious about it that you took a look but couldn't find it...or just keep laughing!

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#46
In reply to #39

Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

03/31/2012 4:53 PM

Rule 1: The boss is right

Rule 2: If the boss is right see rule #1

Unfortunately, I wished I kept my mouth shut. When i found something disastrous during construction. An emergency egress door opening in instead of out I was ask "Why were you in there" instead of thanks. Yes, it was easier to fix when only the frame was up. I was invited for a walk-thru where we found the valve handles of the chilling loop plastered into the firewall so it was unmoveable and other similarly stupid things.

They even told an electrician to move this setup here without consulting me. It wouldn't even support what they needed to do.

---

My boss also wanted to wag his tail at his boss by accomplishing something. e.g. checked off the list. I had more important things to do by making sure I had the materials and the design for the next step. This would have put the project further behind. I saw no issues with the "accomplishing something" except time., but the project would have had a much longer completion time if I hadn't stood my ground.

No one was being "up front" with anybody here, so it wasn't surprising. A vendor finally said that he could not do it unless I was involved. They totally lost on documentation. There is none that anyone can understand. That's what happens when management forces me to design and build "on the fly". The vendor was worked the correct way. Specs, schematic, review, re-draw, build, test. I had to do my old job too and in the end I don't have one.

____

When I pointed out after I learned that a piece of expensive equipment was going obsolete in 6 months, I got my head bit off. He immediately though that I wanted it to be replaced during the remodel. Instead, I meant it to be a warning.

In the end, I should have kept my mouth totally shut. You can be loyal to a company, but they don't have any obligation to be loyal to you.

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#47
In reply to #46

Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

03/31/2012 5:09 PM

I think that living in reality is important. Lets face it.................being right can get your ass fired. There's no sense in denying it.

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#72
In reply to #47

Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

04/02/2012 7:49 AM

Do keep your eyes open for the fine line between going with the flow and doing what's right. In other words, don't do something that may be unsafe (NEC code exist for a reason), don't allow something to happen if someone may get hurt. Don't let something be designed, built, or used in a way that may cause disaster. It's not worth the guilt on the conscience or even the legal responsibility.

A trait of many engineers that I know is to design for worst case. Engineers are pessimists by their nature. Keep an eye on the BS'er to be sure he doesn't get anyone else hurt, be it safety-wize, career-wize or even life-wize.

Otherwise, just sit back and enjoy the entertainment. Your job could be so much worse.

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#50

Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

03/31/2012 7:21 PM

Hi all,

Years ago I got the CEO to quit because of BS he was feeding the board. It was a WMD: I left about 4 months later as it become clear that the new CEO and senior management felt I was too dangerous.

So be careful about putting a match to the petrol as you can get burnt.

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#51
In reply to #50

Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

03/31/2012 8:41 PM

Exactamundo!

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#52

Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

03/31/2012 11:21 PM

To be honest I really don't plan on making pumping fuel a life long career and loosing this job certainly wont put me out of work for long if didn't choose to be. Its quite clear many of the people on this forum have no clue how many work opportunities there are available for intelligent people with class A CDL's and technical backgrounds in this part of the country.

The thing is I have a house to build and plenty other things to do this summer that would keep me well occupied and greatly benefit myself in the long run just as much or likely more than what my very generous paychecks do as of now. This job is very easy and pays well plus I am home very night but its far from being the only job like that around here.

I am not looking to take over the company or get anyone fired. I was simply venting as many do here and looking for practical advice as to how to handle a issue with a someone who appears to not be entirely in a solid state of mind at all times.

As far as running my mouth off well I am a communicator and I don't believe in lying by omission of truth as I see so many here seem to find to be an acceptable process to gain things in life.

Relating to what I do with my life well lets just say many of you here would be envious of my investments portfolio at any age! I am not rich enough to not work at all at this point in life but I don't plan to be working to carry myself along much past 40 unless I want too! Lets just say my financial investment crops look great now, even with the crappy economy, but I am smart enough to know not to harvest them until they are ripe. So until them I will pump fuel and try and figure out what compels some people to do what they do regardless of rational thought or reason.

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#54
In reply to #52

Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

03/31/2012 11:30 PM

It takes about 5 years to get from 37 to 50. It takes about 2 years to get from 50 to 70................if you're lucky. Do what you're comfortable with. Nobody likes a cry baby.

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#55
In reply to #54

Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

04/01/2012 12:20 AM

It takes about 5 minutes from 70 until the end. While you're laying there staring at the ceiling.................make sure you did well. And it ain't about how much money you made.

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#58

Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

04/01/2012 3:53 AM

I've dealt with people like this & found the best way is to back them up all the way especially if their wrong, then wait for the s**t to hit the fan and make sure you let the management know who's idea it was, don't criticise his decisions, agree to suggestions & watch him descend the slippery slope to self destruction, He,He,He.

Bazzer.

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#59

Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

04/01/2012 8:12 AM

I was taught to take the bullshit seriously e.g.:

To exaggerate the bullshit in later conversation e.g. if the guy claimed a masters, I would refer to his doctorate, forcing him to bring it back from doctorate and sometimes, in the following conversation when you ask where he obtained his masters, "I only meant I want to sit for my masters."

To admit to not knowing that something was company policy, or a company achievement, and to express an interest in it and ask where I could read about it.

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#61
In reply to #59

Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

04/01/2012 10:09 AM

In a way thats what we all have been doing here but its now at the point where there is more concern for the guy than belief of what he says. No one is out to ruin the guy rather we are feeling somewhat sympathetic and concerned.

If we wanted to ruin him we probably could have done that weeks ago with about two phone calls but that would have caused more work for us in the end and we are very lazy here.

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#62
In reply to #61

Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

04/01/2012 10:11 AM

snug and happy in a pile ... don't crow about it.

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#63
In reply to #59

Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

04/01/2012 10:12 AM

That is the best way.

When there is BS, and you go along with it, you part of it. If its an engineering environment, the years of integrity can be stripped away in a instant.

Never become complacent, and unlike some views I experience, there is nothing wrong with challenging the incompetent.

In my experience, I had worked an incompetent that march around the office and every little thing that seemed to go positive, (whether it was or not was another matter). He blurt out, "FFAAANNTTTAASSTIC", (when just a fantastic would have done) and it wasn't. It was far from that. Everything and I mean everything that turn brown was because of him.

At first I when I started working there, he wanted me to shadow him, great. Then i started to looked over his shoulders. Saw what he was doing and not doing. I would engage him and asked in a non-theatening manner, "interesting, why would you do it that way?". The answer he would give would shock me, he was struggling.

I would give him alternatives and the reason why. This degrade our relationship further. I would then go to procurement, and asked the girls if it's possible for me to review his orders. (after of course I talked it over with some of the key personnel involved). This guy was screwing up gravely.

My engagements with him escalated, or I should say his engagements with me escalated, but i believed this was the reason they hire me. What I did realize was that the owner hire him as an electrical engineer, because the electrical engineers dad got the owner a slip at the marina when there wasn't one. The only certifications this electrical engineer had was a 'Bartenders Licenses'.

I was let go, and 6 months later, they left the operations manager go also (thats what you get when you hire friends) and hired a new one, shortly after the new OM started working, he left this "wannabe electrical engineer" go and called me. Unfortunately when they left me go, that move cost me way too much Money, they realized that. I told him I couldn't afford to work there.

So the complaints that where listed in some of the posts that your driving this person into the ground was in my opinion based on ignorance, as an engineer you have a job to do. The decisions to share and ask for opinion here is a sound one. And to get informed answers you have to tell it as you see it. And our response is what we hear. And I would say, anyone on this site, "that isn't a 'Yes man' " experienced this. Because no names were given, no matter how clever some of the posters think they are at research, they are far from that.

Don't just bitch, do something, whether it's keeping a log, challenges, addressing the issues to make it work. It doesn't need to be fire him or me. But that may be what it would comes down to. Remember, if you go along with it, it's your integrity. Because when things blow up, there's always collateral damages.

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#64
In reply to #63

Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

04/01/2012 11:19 AM

Nicely put and thanks for actually reading what I have been posting up to this point!

I do understand the follow along ask questions and document everything very well being I have been through it before at another place where I drove truck for two summers ago.

At that job I had two territory managers that had proved themselves to be dangerously clueless and arrogant beyond reproach. I was written up for something I did not do and everyone knew it followed by a them both firing me after my reprimand and relating incidence reports had been formally filled with their superiors and I had been cleared of all wrong doing plus gotten a very nice thank you, new FR coveralls and a day off with partial pay, for having had the brass ones to bring the issues to the upper level managements attention. I was told on my way out if either of those two say anything but sorry to me about the issue that they the top company management wanted to hear about it from me personally.

I went back to work with a clear name and record the next day where I was later fired for the very thing that the top management cleared me of and had agreed that I had absolutely no part in the day before. I turned them in a second time along with a 8+ page detailed report with full documentation and references to creditable witnesses to the events and was promptly unfired and told to go back to work again. I never did.

A short time later I heard one manager was demoted to truck driver and had to work with the very people whos lives he made so miserable, the very guys who wished that they could give him a right proper beat down without reprimand when he was the manager, and the second manager had the top brass crawl up his butt and make a nest there for a very long time.

Despite having walked out and never returned I received a undefined bonus check in the mail dated to the day I left which I took that as a follow up thank you from someone at the top! (they still took taxes out of it though.)

I know how the ratting out procedure works to some degree but I am very reluctant to use it. When I went through this at that company I never once felt good about doing it. I believed it to be a necessary thing to do for myself and the betterment of the company. Still it bothered me the whole time I was dealing with it just the same being the whole thing could have been avoided had either of the two idiots just said 'Sorry it was a mistake. Your paperwork clearly shows you had nothing to do with it and you are not to blame'.

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#65
In reply to #64

Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

04/01/2012 2:11 PM

well, I recall when you were left go, I was very familiar with the situation, because I experienced this.

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/34629#comment487235

Each situation ia different, and how you handle will vary.

I'll say this, people can talk integrity, but the only people that actually know the value of it, is the ones that paid a dear price for it. It is not cheap.

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#67
In reply to #65

Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

04/01/2012 3:41 PM

Funny you would mention that. As of today they are still advertising for someone to fill my old position.

Also the Store Mangers position is now open too. He was a good guy though so I suspect that he probably left willingly but the other dirty little rat is still there though.

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#71
In reply to #59

Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

04/02/2012 6:44 AM

What a pleasant chap.

Bazzer

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#66

Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

04/01/2012 2:43 PM

No matter where you work, you will always run into someone who destroys your peace and tranquility. The fact that he is still working there tells me that he is doing something right and therefore the company keeps him around. If push comes to shove, the company might get rid of you and keep the BSer. Go figure. I've worked with incompetents all my life and every time a reduction in force, (layoff) occurred, competents, myself included would be let go while the other kept his job. The last time it happened was because I was a Yankee working in a Southern company. (Good old Boys Network)

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#68
In reply to #66

Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

04/01/2012 3:49 PM

Unfortunately this town in general was largely built on and run by the 'Good old Boys network' up until very recently and my family wasn't part of it.

In a way its why so many of us general laborer and skilled workers have now come to love the fact that so many out of state companies have came in and set up camp. They don't give a crap about the local good old boys network and who thinks their palms should get the most grease.

They want good workers with good morals and work ethics and they are the ones willing to pay to get those people even if it means upsetting the 'Good old Boys network'!

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#69
In reply to #68

Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

04/01/2012 4:06 PM

I watched a guy that was making my life and other's life miserable because of doing stupid things like putting motor oil for coolant in the bandsaw. The shop stuff became off limits to nearly everyone because of it.

So, he decides to kick in his office door because he left his keys in there. I got in trouble. Why? I watched and could have prevented it with no damage to property. I wanted him to hang himself. It didn't happen. He was leaving in a month anyway. No one was able to "fix" his behavior and he had the same boss as mine.

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#70

Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

04/01/2012 8:53 PM

There is one other type of person to watch out for. If she is singled out for poor performance, she screams discrimination. She usually gets away with murder because the boss could lose his job.

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#78

Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

04/04/2012 4:34 PM

I applaud you for not using the ratting out process. More than likely Mr bragger has really low self esteem. No point in being the straw that breaks that back. That is a lose/lose situation.

I would consider his stories to be entertainment and enjoy them for the time they kill. You did mention you have lots of time to kill.

For the really outrageous stories, tell him that's a great story and that you need to remember it and write it down right in front of him. When you get home throw the paper into some bin and keep it for possible future needs or personal entertainment. Don't share them in a small town or with any co-workers. If he has any sense at all he will tone it down because you have a written record. IF he has no sense at all, well at least he is entertaining. Maybe some day you can write a book from the stories.

I have had the experience of working with someone like you describe. Once I determined to see it as entertainment, life was easier. He never did stop telling the big whoppers but I have some great stories on paper that I can show others now that I live 1400 miles away. We got along better after I decided to see his words as entertainment and good time killers.

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#79
In reply to #78

Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

04/04/2012 4:49 PM

That is one way, but if he is in a high level position, if he BS'es, I'll challenge it. And it depends what he BS's

This Suedo Electrical Engineer, same link I posted earlier was studying to get his private license to fly. (He should have being studying EE)

Being my second day on the job this happened happened. He was telling the people on the plant floor, to land a airbus on the Hudson, thats nothing, it only looked hard. At first I thought he was teasing......he wasn't. I came up to him and said.

OK everybody if you were a passenger on that plane, and had a choice between a pilot with 40 years experience, or Dan Dingleberry (not his real name) to pilot this plane, which would you choose?

Six people he was BSing, I asked each. and each said Scully, I asked Mr. Dingleberry last, which due to peer pressure made him say Scully also.

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#80

Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

04/08/2012 9:15 AM

Don't "out" him, it will reflect on you.

Note his procedures and put them on paper with a suitable name. Get him to agree to them and if possible correct them and finally sign them off.

Keep them.

Add to them.

It may be CYA time and then you can produce them......

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#81

Re: Dealing With the Company BS'er.

05/06/2012 6:16 AM

generally people like this are found out for what they are and removed away from the productive stream where they can cause the least damage.

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