Deleted or Wiped

The data actually is still there on your hard drive, memory stick, ect..... But by deleting your files all what your doing is making it vulnerable to be overwritten. If the data of the deleted files remains intact, the data can be retrieved.

If the deleted data does get compromised where it can't be 'Undeleted'........ Then in engineering terms, it goes to 'CADD heaven'.

A strong magnet works well for permanently deleting data from any magnetic storage medium.

Data erasure - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Back in the 90's I managed a shop.

1st shift handle alot of fire drills,

2nd shift the most productive of the three shifts

and 3rd shift......what can I say.

We transfered files from the office to the machine by 5 1/4" floppy disks in the job packets. if 3rd shift didn't feel like working. they would do just that.

Yes, it works wonders.

You want to use it again? Nobody said that.

[Edit]

Good bits are reincarnated as linux kernel. Bad bits as windoz BSODs. S.M.

I had a serious thought about this. It isn't data that is deleted, it is a pattern of switches, it takes a program to turn that pattern into information. Of course, the program is written in switch patterns as well do something has to turn that into informa....

Never mind.

Do you remember tape recorders? When you recorded over Abba with Zappa, the old stuff didn'c get squished out like toothpaste - it just got written over, like wiping a whiteboard and writing new stuff .

I honestly believe that's the first time I've ever seen Abba and Zappa mentioned in the same sentence. It may in fact be the first time I've seen the names Abba and Zappa used by the same person on the same day.

I think if you typed both those names into a 1970's main-frame computer smoke would start pouring out of its air vents.

It only means that the information is not being actively saved, that portion of the hard drive is again available for use...

Thanks for the great information.

I am old and have resisted this technology long enough. Heck when I was in school it was still slide rules and calculators, only the government had computers. I bought my first computer just 7 years ago and am having the time of my life. Much faster than my slide rule.

Forgive my ignorance on this subject but thank you for all the great answers.

DO back up your PC regularily. On a separate storage medium, not on the PC's hard drive. This is especially important with financial data and photographs.

This is a good point, I backup on external hard drive, of which I have two....cheap insurance...A lesson I learned after almost losing my music collection to a virus that trashed my hard drive...Now I have 5 separate locations, where before only the one...

I sure picked a great time to pop back in.

I don't trust my hard drive, so I get drunk and post my nonsense on FB, CR4, etc.......................you know, places that have multiple servers, to insure that the trash that I spew never gets deleted.

It's an exciting mix of Dr. Evil meets the Beverly Hillbillies..............all wrapped in one.

NNOOOOOOWWWWWW I know why it's been so quiet lately.

You've been away writing a novel. "Opie Meets the Swamp Thing."

Remember Adrian? She was HOT!

Go here for a good time

How to Reduce CO2 Emissions?

If you defragment the HD after doing a cleanup, does this make it impossible to retrieve the info? Or just more difficult?

They go here.

The only way to Totally erase all info on a hard drive is the way the military does it:

Thermite.

See a previous reply by me to another poster about forensic data recovery.

The Navy exposed a hard drive to such an intense magnetic field that the metal case collapsed.

There was still readable info on the platters when they were transferred to another drive's hardware.

On a different level, the only absolute way to destroy information is to send it beyond the event horizon of a black hole.

Stephen Hawking once argued that even this would not work, but he finally acknowledged that it did.(Last I heard, but the debate continues).

If I was selling or giving away my pc I would remove the hdd as a backup and buy a brand new drive and reinstall the os and other common programs.

If I did not need a backup I have put the hdd on a choping block and had fun with an axe.

Google creative ways to destroy data

Oh and a so called best friend gave me his old pc out of interest I ran a recovery program on the hdd and found to my supprise he had copies of my programs from 10 years ago...back in the day of fdd..

"Where do the files really go?"

Into the bit bucket.

01101001011101000111001100100000011000010110110001101100001000000110111101101110011001010111001100100000011000010110111001100100001000000111101001100101011100100110111101110011

You forgot to spell check this.

For anyone here who finds that a DOD overwrite is not enough safety, you have two choices:-

either you are doing stuff that is so bad (international terrorist, child porn collector, child molester, murderer) that the possibility of the FBI, CIA or your local equivalent finding it on your computer is still too risky for you

or

you are totally security/conspiracy crazy.......

There are very few people around in this world with both the knowledge and the very expensive equipment, plus having the interest in the first place to do it on a private person's old HD......

Some here are just conspiracy crazy.......

How many of such people can find a foto on a HD after a DOD format? None.....I would guess....it is only government departments and similar that can do that....

Anyone here that disagrees, please tell us what you have on your HD that is so "dangerous" and "private" that a DOD overwrite could not erase enough and who would be interested in locating it?

Or you work with classified or sensitive data.

Or, you suffer from delusions of grandeur.

The Urban Legend of Multipass Hard Disk Overwrite

Really good link, I read it with pleasure, thanks.

If its classified or sensitive data, then the corporation/government/company will (should have!) have rules in place to handle such things. Their rules must be followed.....

Nobody here has said that they are in such a situation.

So my conclusion is that we are talking about private users.....

Nothing a private user should have needs extreme safety.....you have to remember exactly what equipment and time is needed to dig deep for old data on a properly erased (DOD Wipe) hard disk = a lot of time, a lot of knowledge and a lot of extremely expensive equipment......and if you have NOTHING to hide, why worry!!!! The "finder" is only going to be annoyed at the time he has wasted for nothing!!!

"Stealers" of identity can do it far quicker at almost no cost just by good work on the internet and by sorting through what many throw away in their rubbish bins.....that is where security is far more important...many forget this...

Of course, anyone with something REALLY nasty/illegal in his private background does need to destroy his hard disks, thermite is then the way to go as data can be recovered even from platters that are broken with the right (expensive!) equipment.......but not when they are melted!! But buying thermite will be a problem in many countries though......no corner store here for example, UK also not!!!

I feel that the way to go should be balanced with the needs of the situation, overkill is just a waste of time and money, without any positive benefits to anyone...

-------------------------

For Criminals

For those of you with critical private secrets wanting/needing to make their own thermite, there are plenty of web sites and it is easy to find or make the components and to mix them together:-

Mixing the Stuff
Thermite is 8 grams of iron oxide (basically rust) to 3 grams of finely ground aluminum metal powder. The formula is by weight but because aluminum is very light, it will appear to be approximately a 50-50 mix. Put them together in a container and mix them until it is an even mixture. If you want, mix four parts thermite with one part clay or Play-Doh and knead thoroughly for mouldable thermite.

Igniting

Thermite needs a lot of heat to light, that usually means magnesium or similar (a gas torch will do it, but best not hand held!!). Find some magnesium ribbon (or an old magnesium wheel or gearbox bell housuíng from a racing car, cut a long strip off slowly!, use a sharp hacksaw and keep wet with water while cutting), or a sparkler that contains magnesium and stick it into a pile of thermite. Light it with a torch, and run!

Best of luck!!!!

You wrote, "Nobody here has said that they are in such a situation."

I doubt anyone here would brag about such things. When operating to those extremes they tend to keep quiet and not try to draw attention to themselves.

I think you are desperately looking for cracks, why?

It is easy to criticise, but how about bringing some useful facts here instead?

Anyone in any sort of a business/government situation should have rules and regs to follow with regard to his data and how hard disks are disposed of at the end of their life.

He should not be posting here in his paid role, nor should he be making changes to the rules and regs because of what he reads here or anywhere else...or he risks losing his job and possible criminal proceedings and livelihood....

Anyone here in a private situation can discuss to the level and detail he wishes.

Knowing the above, I must assume that we are all here as private persons. Any other assumption SHOULD be incorrect, though it is patently obvious that some are not following this correctly...that is their funeral.

We have also had obvious Chinese spies from time to time here as well.....I am sure they are not all found and not all from China either!!

If you are exposing yourself to danger of any sort here, then you should not be here in the first place!! Remember security is not just erasing/destroying a hard disk....

That good link from Lyn recently shows that the possibility of getting valid data from a disk that has been erased by even just one random overwrite, is basically Zero, commonsense logic tells me that this is true. When you work out just how thin the tracks are nowadays, this cannot surprise many.....they are really TINY!!!

For anyone who is not happy with that, the DOD Wipe (and other offerings) is still available for free to use and allows as many erasures as he or she feels are needed.....

No proof has been produced here by ANYONE that anything other than large FBI, CIA, Mossad or KGB have ANY chance to recover data from an erased disk.....and it would appear that the older technologies were easier to unravel rather than the latest ones are.....

So it boils back down to what I have maintained all along, only private people with REALLY nasty secrets need to bother......thats not me, but is it......

The question was where do the files go?. As it is information it is not something physicle and if it is totally wiped it is gone.

It is not affected by 1st Law of thermo dynamics, "Energy cannot be created or destroyed" at least that what I think it says.

The "data" is magnetic "bits" that are turned "on" or "off". That state is interpreted by the system hardware, firmware and software as "one" or a "zero". When it is erased or deleted, the states are changed such that the "data" is no longer readable in it's original form. Usually it is over-written by all "ones" or "zeros" or a pattern of "ones" and "zeros".

So if you look at post #17 and could interpret that into some code, such as ASCI, you would see that it actually spells something. If you modify that "data" such that it is changed into a different random pattern, it can no longer easily be translated. So "wipe" is generally thought to modify ALL the data. Delete changes just the information that pertains to the data's location. That's why some systems can "un-delete" if the actual data has not yet been written over again.

So physically the "matter" on the drive is the same as it always was. The state of the magnetic coating on the disk platter(s) energy changes...nothing gets created or removed physically.

Today's hard drives are much more complex than a simple floppy disk of the past. They now have chips/cpus in the drive mechanism that also have "data" in them, so when an agency wants to completely remove ALL data, absolute destruction is usually called for.

Disassemble the hard drive and use the platters as anodes and cathodes for a HHO generator. Use small fat O-rings as spacers and a couple big O-rings (or rubber bands) to hold it all together and using tiny alligator clips on the platters wire to a 12 volt battery with a charger. Submerged in tap water and either the anode or cathode will de-laminate the platinum. Reverse polarity and de-laminate the other ones, recycle the platinum flakes and the aluminum platters and your data is effectively destroyed.

Disclaimer: Caution - this will produce explosive gases, that may cause delusions of grandeur, conspiracy, and/or persecution. May cause cognitive dissonance, and the complete, but imperceptible, reversal of matter and anti-matter.

The "Sledge-o-matic" would be much safer.

That was a good answer to the wrong question. All he wanted to know was where the data went. But thanks for the sledge-o-matic video.

The data turns into the dust that you find inside the PC casing. You have to vacuum it out every so often to stop it re-forming & gaining rudimentary intelligence. If it manages that it could become an accountant.

LOL!

A vacuum with artificial intelligence!! I have to mention that to my accountant. Very nice Nigh, I ow you one, Ky.

Presumably, the most sensitive data any of us have on our HDs is data that could be used for ID theft. Unless we are somehow involved in espionage, knowingly or unknowingly (as in so many movies). Or in some sort of criminal activity.

I wonder if drive, or folder encryption isn't a good compromise for security? I've played around with TrueCrypt. It may just be my experience, but, for me, the most valuable data are documents and files we create, and are usually ASCII based -- or contain private information in ASCII characters -- documents, spreadsheets, etc. and don't total more than a few Gigs for backup purposes.

One technique I've used is to create secure, encrypted "drives" of just the right size so they can be burned to a DVD. Once files are written to the encrypted drive and it is dismounted, backing up that amount of data is reduced to burning one file to a DVD. Variations could include using a backup app. for keeping the drive sync'd, before burning a new backup DVD(s). At ~ 25 cents per disc, burning updated backups is pretty cheap, and you then have all the previous versions intact separately.

Of course, this doesn't eliminate the security risk of having written the data on the HD in an unencrypted form before copying it to an encrypted drive -- and the subsequent concern over making deleted files unrecoverable. Better security would be to start with an encrypted drive or "drives" before storing any files with sensitive data in them. In other words, start with a freshly installed HD and OS install, then create the encrypted drive before using the computer for any data creation. Your customized version of "My Documents" would reside in this encrypted drive. If more space is needed, one could create another encrypted drive with the same "tree" construction and point all apps. to that new drive for data creation and storage.

Nothing is totally safe. But encryption from the get-go would, in most cases, provide another, good, layer of security for personal data on a computer. Encryption can be applied to existing folders, too, from some apps., but not TrueCrypt. I would worry much less about "throwing away" a drive that had an encryption strategy like this from the beginning. Wiping a drive with encrypted drives probably wouldn't matter as much, but could be done as one more precaution. Data security can become quite involved, depending on how paranoid you feel.

In the same way that most burglars will, usually, bypass a house that has a security system to find one that doesn't, someone would have to have a very strong indication that your HD is worth the effort of trying to crack your password and/or the encryption. Too much time and effort for the return.

One link for experimentation is here.

I'd be interested to know if others here have tried encryption. If so, did you find it too cumbersome in the end? Or have you found it worthwhile?