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Alchemy At Work

11/21/2012 11:34 AM

Does anyone have any information and the White salt of Gold- this is not white gold metal but a salt created by spin atom state gold- I have found some spriritual answers that I consider spurious as they look for product purchasors, but nothing on the chemical or metallurgical properties or extraction- thanks

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#1

Re: Alchemy at Work

11/21/2012 11:58 AM

Chemistry of "White salt of Gold"

It is same as common sodium we use in our daily life.

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Alchemy at Work

11/21/2012 1:09 PM

Sorry but not so- this is a long way from ordinary salt- it is usually found as a mobile solution product from volcanic venting and is undetectable by normal assay methods, may also be associated with PGE and rare earth salts in the same form.

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#3
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Re: Alchemy at Work

11/21/2012 3:11 PM

"undetectable by normal assay methods." This sounds like "quack" chemistry! I think someone is trying to pull the wool over your eyes. Gold can be detected by chemical methods and also using instruments such as XRF, ICP, AA. If it doesn't show up - it's not there. Simple as that.

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Alchemy at Work

11/21/2012 3:18 PM

the terminology of Salting sounds familiar.

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#5

Re: Alchemy At Work

11/21/2012 4:20 PM

Spin atom state of gold sounds like pseudo-scientific mumbo jumbo.

The salts come from the group 1 metals, like sodium and potassium -- sodium chloride (Na1Cl1)and potassium chloride (K1Cl1) both being edible salts, as examples. Gold is a group 11 metal. It doesn't form the same kind of bond as a group 1 metal. Gold Chloride is Au2Cl6.

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#7
In reply to #5

Re: Alchemy At Work

11/21/2012 6:10 PM

I know of no true gold salts and I agree whole heartedly with your evaluation of 'spin atom state gold' as pseudo-scientific mumbo jumbo.

.

The definition you provided for salts needs correction.

.

There are numerous salts that do not contain a group 1 metal. Calcium Chrloride and Magnesium Sulfate are two good examples.

.

Roughly, Salts are ionic compounds that can be formed via a neutralizing reaction between (something acting as) an acid and (somethign acting as) a base.

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#6

Re: Alchemy At Work

11/21/2012 4:31 PM

If you can channel the ghost of Merlin, you will learn all. Good luck.

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#8

Re: Alchemy At Work

11/21/2012 7:04 PM

Go have a look at http://www.halexandria.org/dward469.htm and http://www.halexandria.org/dward466.htm then chase through Halexandria.org in general. While I've never heard of White salt of Gold, it sounds like you are referring to white powder of gold, aka ORME - orbitally rearranged monoatomic elements. Whether or not one believes some of this isn't really relevant, there are some interesting ideas on Halexandria and not even one brown gas or perpetual motion scheme for sale.

I've no clue whether Dan Ward is certified nuts, but the guy holds a Ph.D. in Nuclear Physics, as well as a Bachelor of Engineering Science and has written some well-presented ideas.

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#9
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Re: Alchemy At Work

11/21/2012 8:19 PM

Thank you for that- this is what I had also been told but verbally, not written- essentially I am told by a PhD. in chemistry and Geology, is that is is formed by Volcanic vent explosions so forceful that the original gold loses an electron and thus has an undetectable weigh by normal measurement methods- I have actually seen this product as in your description, extracted from a mineral sample, and have seen gold plated on Zinc from this material. I also noted that this white powder (salt???) forms with other minerals in the Pte group and rare earths and that both Rhodium and Iridium can form a bond with this gold that masks it and in some cases makes separation impossible under our known historic methodology. I am not trying to sell a scenario but trying to find an answer from others, if they have any knowledge that would assist me- there are many yet undiscovered answers ahead and I think that I have seen and heard technology that might prove very new and interesting- I am trying to open a knowledge door, and I might add that ridicule and denial without investigation is what has held back many great scientific and medical discoveries - think before you criticize

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#10
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Re: Alchemy At Work

11/21/2012 9:10 PM

'....explosions so forceful that the original gold loses an electron....'

.

WOW, an explosion so forceful not only does it lose an electron, it completely forgets it ever had it. Not only that, but that was a very special irreplaceable electron in which GOLD secretly stores all its identifying characteristics.

Incredible.

Stupendous.

Unbelievable.

Really.

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#11
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Re: Alchemy At Work

11/21/2012 9:21 PM

I read both of these links. In the words of the prophet: "what an absolute crock!"

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#12
In reply to #8

Re: Alchemy At Work

11/21/2012 9:31 PM

'.....Whether or not one believes some of this isn't really relevant, there are some interesting ideas on Halexandria and not even one brown gas or perpetual motion scheme for sale.

I've no clue whether Dan Ward is certified nuts, but the guy holds a Ph.D. in Nuclear Physics, as well as a Bachelor of Engineering Science and has written some well-presented ideas......'

.

-'Whether or not someone believes some of this isn't really relevant'...?!?!?!?

I should just view your input as incoherant background babble then?

.

-'not even one brown gas or perpetual motion scheme for sale.'

AH, yes, the misguided and those who would purposefully misguide are never capable of originality.

.

-'I've no clue whether Dan Ward is certified nuts'.

....because if he's not certified nuts, it must be true??? But seriously, you really can't tell?

OK, I'll help you out. I do hereby certify him as nuts. Nuts he is. (At this point it is probably best if you don't inquire about your own certification status.)

.

-'....the guy holds a Ph.D. in Nuclear Physics, as well as a Bachelor of Engineering Science ....'

How much is the ransom....and to whom do these degrees belong

.

.

-'...and has written some well-presented ideas....'

. and those might be found where? Wait, nevermind. I momentarily forgot I don't care.

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#13

Re: Alchemy At Work

11/21/2012 9:49 PM

Hang on.

If it's gold minus an electron, then I think we can make some.

If we make a capacitor with the "positve" plate made of gold, then when the capacitor is charged (Electrons taken away from positive) then the surface would be covered with the stuff.

We could even prototype a Van DeGraph generator and set up a continuous production process.

All rights reserved and copyright claimed by JAE.

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#14

Re: Alchemy At Work

11/21/2012 11:14 PM

It looks to me like this author is the natural inheritor of the mantle of L. Ron Hubbard, the inventor of Scientology. He's so obviously BSing for the fun of it.

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#15
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Re: Alchemy At Work

11/22/2012 1:09 AM

Throughout the ages (and still today) you will find that gold has been a prized commodity. This is for the simple reason that it it reacts with (almost) no other substances, remains inert, retains its chemical and physical properties and is generally on the increase in value. In layman's terms it is a noble metal. The few gold reations that do exist will yield ions (meaning in solution) and not salts.

Apart from this, and as far as I know, it is only on the nano-scale where it does behave in a slightly different manner. Here, the nano-level behaviour of gold particles is exploited in fields such as catalysis (the speeding up of chemical reactions) and other areas of nano-technology. This is topic for another interesting discussion.[Later]

One of the few chemicals that will attach to gold is cyanide. This is exploited in one of the options in the gold production process where they extract gold (from the ore) through a leaching process. See Cyanide Process http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanide_process

In the gold refinery process, where gold is purified, they use Hydrochloric Acid. We may conclude that it reacts only with extreme chemicals. Hydrochloric acid is an extremely strong acid. See gold refining by the acid method: https://www.ishor.com/AquaRegia.php

The chemical reaction for the dissolution of gold, the "Elsner Equation", follows:

4 Au + 8 NaCN + O2 + 2 H2O → 4 Na[Au(CN)2] + 4 NaOH

Do note : in this process, the gold exists in the form of ions that are not very stable, but in good enough in the leaching reactors to allow efficient exctraction.

It's interesting that our topic-originator not only mentions gold salts but also the colour thereof. A budding Alchemist or sorts ?

Alchemy alludes to some easy way to produce gold from cheap and simple elements. And through the ages, bucket-chemists have attempted to achieve this (without any success). In those days they saw it as a kind of holy grail and approached the effort with great, yet misdirected, levels of creativity.

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#16

Re: Alchemy At Work

11/22/2012 3:12 AM

WALOOB

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#17

Re: Alchemy At Work

11/22/2012 9:50 AM

1. Transmutation of lead to gold from alchemy
2. From Don Nance this recipe.

Don Nance is an American Alchemist of modern day (Fame?). I have not tried his recipe nor do I know anyone who has tried. For what it is worth, gold is just too expensive to play around from my point of view.

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#18

Re: Alchemy At Work

11/22/2012 9:55 AM

There is a book and video published by Laurence Gardner (Lost Secrets of the Sacred Ark" ) that describes the history and properties of this set of materials he calls "exotic matter" He is somewhat of a conspiracy theorist, and this story has attracted a herd of crazies. The video Is utterly fascinating, which proves he was a master story teller. Chris.

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#19
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Re: Alchemy At Work

11/22/2012 10:18 AM

It does sound interesting...... Like the davinci code

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#20
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Re: Alchemy At Work

11/22/2012 10:57 AM

There is, of course, a narrow line between discouraging a good idea coming from a budding inventor and writing off crazy ideas put forward by a loony. The point is to distinguish between the two extremes. One could well become a great inventor and the other is deluded.

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#21
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Re: Alchemy At Work

11/22/2012 11:17 AM

Here is another book by Joseph Farrell, The Phiosopher's Stone" 2009. Non fiction. Still have not read the book but I did read another book by Farrell that provided good insight in the science of genes. I think it follows along the same lines and he is interesting.

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#22

Re: Alchemy At Work

11/22/2012 12:30 PM

So, it sounds like the "White Powder of Gold" is sniffed? Maybe the Mormons would know.

They're in to some pretty far out things.

This is such a COS. (Crock of S#!t)

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#23

Re: Alchemy At Work

11/22/2012 6:17 PM

This sounds like someone wants an investor in a gold mine with elusive gold that cannot be assayed. There is a name for this.

They are called

desert dirts.

Clean out wallets very well.

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#24
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Re: Alchemy At Work

11/22/2012 8:27 PM

The comment about wanting an investor is the furthest thing here from a fact.What I find both interesting and disappointing is the name calling and criticism with neither reasons for such a comment, nor any apparent knowledge behind it- I am looking for nothing more than constructive or helpful information that would assist me in reaching a decision as to whether this is a valid area for further research or a dead end. And if I fall into a misguided category in many responders minds, I am in good company from many scientists now established as creators of new frontiers. I do not have the ego to put myself there- I am only looking for further answers to some of the things I have seen, and been told by people that are way smarter than me, that if true- could be of great interest to the scientific, medical and economic communities, and while a few responders do have thought behind their comment, I feel many are only following the old adage "do not confuse me with facts when my mind is made up"- I will say thank you to the writers of constructive items and goodbye to the rest.

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#25
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Re: Alchemy At Work

11/22/2012 8:31 PM

Goodbye.

From: http://www.halexandria.org/dward469.htm

It is in essence, the Elixir of Life. It is likewise,The Philosopher's Stone of Alchemy, the "manna" of the ancient Hebrews, and even the "What is it?" of the ancient Egyptians. In science, the white powder of gold is the ORME -- i.e. gold (or any of the Precious Metals) in a monoatomic form -- which can result in Superconductivitywithin an organic body.

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#26
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Re: Alchemy At Work

11/22/2012 8:41 PM

In my opinion the description of the volcanic origin of this material sounds like a strange material. Sample of any precious metal can be assayed by fire assay and the condition in the assay make all gold report as a weighable amount.

the Davidson Tisdale Mine used this method (as did many others)

A typical assay company Accurassay

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#27
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Re: Alchemy At Work

11/22/2012 8:50 PM

Strange comment as I once owned 100% of the Davidson Tisdall shares- and the subsequent exploration and mining there was a classic example on how not to do it.

It is not my opinion as to the volcanic origin but I became interested, based on studies by Dr Smuckler from Tel Aviv University, several retired Physicists from Princeton, and at least 2 other PhD's Chemistry and geology, and I believe that Nuclear assaying now done at McMaster University can also detect otherwise unidentifiable products- care to discuss further?

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#28
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Re: Alchemy At Work

11/22/2012 8:59 PM

Yes, I recognized your name, which is why I made the reference to DDTS. I am a past director, but left when Norcott arrived.

High gold prices might make the Davidson mineable? JLK used to think so.

As for assaying, I am a past employee of X-Ray Assay, which was at Eglinton and Yonge, and, so I am wary of assay methods which find gold not found by FA. which the typical desert dirts play with.

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#29
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Re: Alchemy At Work

11/22/2012 9:11 PM

There is still a lot of gold in the Pillars at DT as set up for track mining, which in my opinion was a mistake, as it left much ground unavailable for recovery, and I feel the south portion is still largely untested- as to assaying I taught it for one year at U of T under Mac Hewer, and in this case I have actually seen some of the products under discussion- hence my original question, as I want to keep an open mind until I can either walk away, or pursue this technology based on my own observation and lab testing of the extractive methodology, formulated by the people I mentioned, but I was hoping to find others who had info that could help- sadly as you can see I was not too successful

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#30
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Re: Alchemy At Work

11/22/2012 9:27 PM

The portal was setup for trackless mining by the oil company (Getty) who were used to large sedimentary horizons, and it did not make much money, partly because Pamour robbed the company. Finally there was a death at the top of the oil company and estate settlement pressures forced them to sell their share to energold, energold tried to sell their share to Peggy for $20,000, but I put a stop to that by the ROFR we had. Then the control block was sold in about 1995 and the new holder failed to cover himself with glory, preferring litigation and was finally forced out. Cynthia tried for a few years to make a god of it. Now with gold high, it is in others hands (Vedron VG??) and they may find something.

As for assay methods, the crown is thin here on that subject.

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#31
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Re: Alchemy At Work

11/22/2012 9:32 PM

I would like to talk tomorrow

Goodnight

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#32
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Re: Alchemy At Work

11/22/2012 9:48 PM

Hugh,

This subject makes so many extraordinary claims, and the followers are ripe with what I can best call a lack of dispassionate objectivity. It is interesting to me... but I have a life that is satisfying to me, and I don't feel the need or compulsion to pursue such extravagant claims.

With all the things that science has been able to do, which are many, the best parts are those which are repeatable. There is no descriptive methodology being shown that one can follow, and that is a key indicator to me that this is a wild goose chase.

I like the links that have been made to the ancients... but there are vast fields of interpretation being made here... and very little science...

therefore, I'm refuse to spend my life force pursuing this. The thing I like about science is that it makes the unknowable knowable. It is repeatable, reliable, and to learn a principle or law of nature is soothing to the psyche. I don't need interstellar travel or antigravity at this time. I don't think there is anything worth while investing time or money in here.

Even if the claims were true... there will have to be decades of research to make it work... who needs another wild 'ground floor' opportunity? The simplest explanation is the best, and that is that this is a well crafted fantasy.

Chris

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#33
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Re: Alchemy At Work

11/23/2012 3:05 AM

For white gold, see link to David Hudson.

Lawrence Gardner states : "When gold and platinum-group metals are transformed into the monatomic state, a fine white powder is produced."

Sounds like they start off with gold and then, presumably, transform it into a form that has properties of greater value (so it is claimed). I have a few questions :

1) Are there any samples available (of the powder)?
2) What exactly are these new properties?
3) Of what use can these new properties be?
4) Can this potentially be a new of another way to recover gold?

5) If so, what would the processing costs be?

6) Why has the conventional gold industry not evaluated or exploited this alleged discovery?

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#34
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Re: Alchemy At Work

11/23/2012 10:16 AM

in answer to your questions- as far I am able to give,

1- yes if what I have been told is true- I have, and seen it produced.

2- 3- this is what I am trying to determine.

4- again if what I have seen is valid- yes - I have only been able to as yet determine it exists- where it goes from there I am trying to find out.

As to why the industry resists- who knows- perhaps a combination of egos that refuse to move from established positions- a certain reluctance of the industry to have open minds re something new, the Lawyers and accountants who run most companies and the regs they have set up re reports, written documents from parties in power denying the possibility- I am just trying to satisfy a curiosity- as to the costing- significally less than conventional and more eco friendly- the reasoning behind how and why is quite esoteric and difficult for most to accept or understand- including me.

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#35
In reply to #34

Re: Alchemy At Work

11/23/2012 10:33 AM

There is no resistance to new science, but whatever comes along must be peer reviewed, not some anecdotal fluff.

There have been hundreds of these "Desert Dirt" scams, all make wild claims about types of gold that eludes the common assay methods. They have a lab with a special assay method that finds this hidden gold. This so called white powder gold has no value unless it can be melted into standard gold, so why bother with it?

Desert Dirts

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#36
In reply to #34

Re: Alchemy At Work

11/23/2012 10:38 AM

Hugh,

I'm back.

I've done just a little more research on the subject of white powders.

I think this site: List of 370 Alchemy Elements - List with Hidden Cheats may be of interest to you.

Seriously, what possesses you to believe in this magic powder?

I, for one, am confident enough in human nature to know that if this stuff really existed, and was really worth lots of money, the " Lawyers and accountants who run most companies" would have capitalized on this source of untold riches already.

It's still a COS, Hugh, so, don't quit your day job just yet.

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#37
In reply to #36

Re: Alchemy At Work

11/23/2012 10:49 AM

Welcome back

Again I reiterate- I am not trying to promote anything- but I personally have seen enough to pique my curiosity- and secondly I know several people whose genius and knowledge I respect, with clean outstanding credentials who are passionate in their belief- I guess I am just enough of a believer in people and friends that I will not accept their beliefs are delusions- yes at least one is a typical weird genius but his knowledge is impeccable and I want to satisfy my own curiosity- if it is real- then wow- if it is not, then it falls into the many mining scams I have seen- but I want my own answers, not just a conventional dust off

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#38
In reply to #37

Re: Alchemy At Work

11/23/2012 10:58 AM

Good luck!

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#39
In reply to #37

Re: Alchemy At Work

11/23/2012 11:11 AM

The certain mark of a scam is the request for $$, either in cash or to pay for assorted work and services to test the scam.

So once you are asked to join a group and each put of $$ to get something done, which wiil sound plausible, but will be a scam. At that point, do not give the $$.

J

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Location: Clive, Alberta, Canada
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#40
In reply to #37

Re: Alchemy At Work

11/23/2012 11:12 AM

Here is the link to 1:20 video presentation by Laurence Gardner, fwiw.

for those looking for some solid gold, I offer Dorothy Moore ;-)

Chris

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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Mono,Ontario, Canada
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#41
In reply to #40

Re: Alchemy At Work

11/23/2012 11:34 AM

Thank you for the advice- I concur

Just for those who are still a bit open minded here is my reason for continuing- and I do not need any money

1- I have personally taken over 20 samples from various sites suggested by my geniusses

2- using very primitive but simple chemical (lab) techniques I produced a white product which sat on top of the waste material ( looks like semen)

3- on drying it produced a white powder- and this is where I still need to move ahead as I do not know the composition

4- Spectro analysis using Niton and Brucker Titan units did show both Gold and Pte products including rhodium on the original sample but I have not tested powder this way yet.

5- nuclear activation proceedure by a well regarded assay lab also showed some gold in original sample

6- I have seen Gold and Pte products purportedly from these same powders (not my sample)- but I was not personally involved in their production.

Perhaps now you can understand my pursuing this till I get a valid answer- as a consulting geologist for over 60 years I need to know and not just dismiss it, as there is some smoke- I just do not know if there is a fire.

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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Wolfe Island, ON
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#42
In reply to #40

Re: Alchemy At Work

11/23/2012 1:57 PM

Watched the video by Laurence. Fascinating stuff. And does pique the interest as it provides some hope for futuristic travel Did you ever wonder how a spacecraft travelling at some significant portion of the speed of light could see and avoid objects ahead? The moving of space time seems to be unfathomable but never the less interesting. And levitation to build the pyramids, hmm?

As for Dorothy Moore, Wow. And thanks.

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