Thoughts on CR4 Forum Organization

I must having sleeping last few years, Electronics and Software have advanced to such high degree that they have converged !

What about an artisan section? Just for fun or coffee break section? HVAC section? Automotive and boat repair section? New ideas section?

Artisan and fun stuff could go in General as it does now. HVAC would probably be part of Construction; automotive and boat repair in Transportation. New ideas in the most applicable section related to the idea.

Nuclear energy? Power generation strategies? Waste technologies?

I guess that would all get lumped into Energy, Oil and Gas... Seems to much in one category doesn't it?

When you consider that energy questions currently go into Electrical Engineering or Sustainable Engineering, it seems like an improvement to me!

Please include "Material Handling" Section and all questions and answers should be included in section wise discussions.

Are we not on a coffee break when we post here?

Other then "healthcare", I like it. Maybe "Medical technology" would be better. I work for a surface improvement / coating company. Everything we do is performance coatings not decorative. We divide our work into five categories, automotive, industrial, defense, aerospace, and medical technologies.

I do believe there still should be an education section.

I would say Transportation, but as none of them seem to work, I guess they aren't transporting anyone anywhere.

Why, in the "Chevy Cavalier Not ____________" Blog, of course! Under Aerospace, in the subsection entitled How Do I Launch My Chevy Cavalier Into the Sun?

Btw, I was gonna mention this on Savvy's recent New Blog Ideas thread (paraphrasing the title here) when she checked 'Who's Online,' chickened out and immediately closed the thread to new comments, having realized, I suppose, that to leave it open to any remarks at all was tantamount to Dancing Over the Abyss.

Quick thinking! She still has her job today as a result. Not saying who was online at that moment; only that I saw her there scoping things out.

Well then, there needs to be a CR4P section for Cavaliers.

There should also be a Spam / Scam section too.

Commercial Space = spam. People are supposed to post advertisements there and the moderators move anything else that belongs to that section. That section is nice because its content doesn't appear on the homepage - you've got to go looking for it.

I was wondering if there should be a 3rd section under General, maybe using a name similar to 'Fringe' or 'The Outer Limits', for discussions of unusual/crazy/controversial/cutting edge topics.

That would be great, maybe we could call it "Aluminum Foil Hat Technology section"

The Fringe. It like it. I'd avoid the A-word, tho. The rest of the world spells it aluminIum and may demand a separate section all their own.

That's something to consider. We could use the same idea as Commercial Space where the posts don't appear on the homepage. People would have to go to that forum to look, kind of having an idea of what they may be in for!

Or a HOMEWORK discussion section.

Plumbing?

Seems like the ideal place to discus breaking up bath tubs.

I took a quick gander at some of the posts on the front page of CR4 currently and had some difficulty putting my finger on where some threads might go. One such instance is a question regarding a pump. The closest thing we'd have in the new structure is metals & mining.. maybe construction?

I think it would depend on the application of the pump.

Your guess is as good as mine.

There are other examples, just on the front page currently. Laser propulsion? Metric system vis imperial units? Would we just be lumping all these into general?

The OP would best be able to decide the industry application of the pump. The laser propulsion question was in regard to spacecraft - so Aerospace might be the right fit. The metric system discussion does seem to be General as it affects all industries.

It would seem we get, in general, a number of questions regarding equipment that is used in engineering. Pumps, rotaries, grounding rods, transistors.

Just seems like a lot to lump into either "Construction" or "Metal & Mining".

The same point can be made at lumping everything essentially in software / electrical engineering / electronics and communications all into one category. Then again, that's just my two pennies on it

Not forgetting Instrumentation, some of which can be common to several industries.

I just posted a piping question under Mechanical.

But there could be two place for that HVAC section or Chemical. I just posted a piping question under Mechanical.

Looks fine to me.

There are many who don't post in the correct catagory anyway, so they know the difference.

There will be some who complain because their favorite topic doesn't seem to fit anywhere.

I'd just add a requirement that registration is mandatory, no more AP's.

Registration is already mandatory. After a user registers, they can post anonymously. At least, that's how the current system works.

I didn't know that. That's a horse of a different color.

So, you mean that posters who ask inane, ridiculous questions or make inane ridiculous remarks are registered??

Then, let's just not allow anybody to post anonymously.

I take full credit for all remarks I make on here. So should all the other grown-ups here. Aside from the occasional funny remark the AP category serves no useful purpose that I can see.

That's only my opinion.

Yep all the flaming/instigating/provoking/annoy you because you cant see their real screen name AP's are are local nuts under cover.

That's why I want the AP function taken out and why I ran a thread to see whom else would be interested in bringing on its final demise.

For those whom were not aware. http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/82848

As a local loco nut, I enjoy posting anonymously usually for a humorous cause.

But, on the other hand there are times that I wish to make a critical comment that may be unpopular to some of the more influential members here and I don't want to deal with the retribution (I have received in the past for comments certain individuals didn't like).

~Anon~

Sometimes a posters opinion may run contrary to that of their employer. At times like that anonymous posts allow people to voice their opinion without fear of reprisals in the workplace.

That is the only reason I can think of to allow them.

And the opinion of a total stranger with zero historical credibility here, posting as anonymous, is worth how much?

I have to agree, My company monitored on line usage (Mostly for bandwidth)

But if you look at the posters, even some posters changed, that use to use their full names, have changed to more discreet labels.

I think the Energy Oil & Gas should be split. There are too many huge catagories involved; Power Generation, Oil & Gas extraction, Oil & Gas Production (refining) and Distribution of Power or fuels.

I also think having topic examples to help the OP decide where to put their post.

ex: Cathodic protection on a fuel tank farm, should that fall under Electronics or Energy Oil & Gas? Or what if hte Cathodic protection is on a cross country pipeline (in the U.S. they fall under department of transportation regulations).

Personally, I almost never delve into the different forums because I just don't want the hassle of searching through. Even though I am annoyed with the processed spoon fed home page I don't even look at the separate forums.

What I would want would be a home page that had only minimal filtration, and showed all of the recent offerings. I have seen on many occasions where a refresh removed a few new threads and I was stuck with the same boring threads that were there in the morning. I know somone must put a lot of effort into keeping only the(their) best threads on the home page so visitors only see the good stuff and miss the crap...but I want to be able to decide what is crap (just like how I hate when Facebook sorts my news stream).

So, perhaps a page that holds recent posts for a day or so no matter the topic and only filtered for spam would be nice...perhaps only one click away from the normal home page?

Drew K

Have you tried the "See All Forum Threads" link on the home page?

Oh?...so it is <sheepish grin> _{I am new here...must have missed it...never saw nuthin bout baths there...}

Ok, then how about setting it up like the home page so I can see an intro to the post, that would be nice...

Drew K

If you hover over each link you should see a popup containing a blurb of text. You could also create a bookmark going right to that page.

Wow...I should have read the tutorial when I first started!

Thanks !

Isn't that the "see all forum threads" link on the homepage?

I use that a lot, and almost never go into the forums (unless I click the wrong thing!)

I think it would be a pity to aim at industries, the finely pointed technical questions that are the most fun may well disappear in a format that does not encourage them.

Good points,

Ask What made CR4 popular?, and What changes will improve CR4.

Have to keep in mind, that CR4 is sponsored by GlobalSpec.

Very true.

I also think it is important to keep the sections for the primary Engineering fields (ME, CE, EE, etc). After all how can this be "The Engineer's Place for News and Discussion"^® without Engineering sections?

Drew K

"After all how can this be "The Engineer's Place for News and Discussion"® without Engineering sections?"

The topics wouldn't change - only the arrangement would be different.

Ok, now I am confused again. The topics would not change but the arrangement? So looking to the right of my screen at this moment I see CR4 Sections and they look alphabetical. I see Civil Engineering, Electrical Engineering, Mechanical Engineering, Sustainable Engineering and Education & Engineering Careers.

You are going to rearrange them but not change the topics...and none of them will have Engineering in the title? How is that not changing them?

Drew K

I mean that the focus of the site will still be engineering. The subject matter of the threads would not change. The sections they are categorized under would have different names.

What is the quote about a rose by another name, would it smell as sweet?

I feel it is the same here, this is the Engineer's Place, if you ask me to take Engineering out of the topics I won't like it...because it doesn't smell as sweet. I know logistically it makes sense to make IHS's new acquisition fit the mold but we like the mold we are in. Forced change will alienate some of us.

Drew K

Weren't you the one who doesn't use the sections? ;). The only thing that doesn't change is that nothing stays the same forever!

Even though I don't use them (except when I post a new thread) I don't like the idea of removing the Engineering...and I imagine some others won't either.

Nothing stays the same...I don't visit as much as I used to.

There already seems to be more industry related threads than I remember. When I started here there was a long discussion on how liquid pours from a spout. I read about using vacuum tubes for solar hot water heating. Now I work at a power plant and enjoy the posts about this topic but I do miss debating about the best way to fill in the cracks in the bottom of a favorite tea cup.

There used to be a wonderful thread where some regulars and frequent visitors posted about breaking a bath and gossiped and grumbled until the grumbling there and dissatisfaction elsewhere generated frustrations that led to banishment and abandonment.

Nothing stays the same forever, and if the changes keep pushing the old contributors away the new generation can have enjoy the new sections.

Drew K

I remember that thread, and I know exactly where they archived it, too. This part holds all those Shinys:

Daz right. Just the Shinys.

Oooooo! There's one that looks a bit like one I had, once. .

But "if the changes keep pushing the old contributors away" all the Mpy (mega-person-years) of knowledge and experience will be lost. Prob'ly forever. Might as well burn the libraries, while they're at it (none of the whipper-snappers will know how to use them anyway).

I really miss Sparky.

I think it'd be interesting to see how many threads would end up in "Agriculture" relative to "Construction"

The proposed categories eliminate or combine some of the sections with the least amount of participation and views. Electrical engineering is one of the most popular sections here on CR4. According to the FAQ it covers a wide variety of topics, some of which would be broken out under the new sections.

No matter the categories end up they will have descriptions to explain what goes where. That would help narrow down what belongs in Construction, for example.

No structure can be perfect. As it is today there are posts that could appear in more than one section. It comes down to which one fits best.

Something else to consider might be how important the sections are to the users. How many users browse by section? A few who commented here said they do not.

Possibly have a "flag" approach to the section that a thread is in. It is very reasonable for a thread to fit into more than one section. "Aerospace electronics" and "defense grade software" would be two examples. Readers could then select threads with one flag only or threads with multiple flags including the current flag of interest. Additional options could be to make two or more specific threads mandatory.

A "see all threads" display could show the flags in a table and allow readers more power to select based upon his/her interests.

I think the reason is simple: IHS has acquired Global Spec.

CR4's sections are already made up of a mix of engineering disciplines and industries.

There are several reasons why we're considering a shift to industry-based sections. One is something I hinted at in my original post. The stuff posted here on CR4 can be better shared with and integrated with other divisions of IHS if it's similarly aligned, and vice versa. Better alignment helps make it easier to find related information all in one place.

You ignore the point I made earlier, if you make this change, the identity will change. I come here for the interesting problems and puzzles, these will disappear in an industry driven forum. We have an interesting mix of odd shaped pegs here now but the new board won't accommodate them.

One possibility would be to double category the thread, select industry and select discipline and allow an alternate sort by discipline, making it reader's choice.

Of course, you could be deceiving us by pretending that a done deal, decided by administrators, is only a plan under consideration. I hope not but I can't help noticing that you seem not to be prepared to address the objections.

CR4 is already organized by a mix of disciplines and industries. I'm not sure that puzzles and interesting problems would disappear if the forum were organized differently. Why do you think so?

Tagging by both sounds like an interesting concept; the site isn't set up that way now but it's probably possible.

I posted this question to find out the community's opinions about a switch, both in favor and against. Last week I talked to some of the GlobalSpec engineers; most were in favor of an industry-based alignment.

I'm not trying to deceive anyone and I should have put a big disclaimer in my original post asking everyone not to jump to conclusions. My original question is related to some research I started some time ago. There is no "done deal".

Yup, just like I quoted earlier...

If this is a new management push so they can integrate CR4 into IHS, let this be the Engineering branch. Let CR4 have all the same sections PLUS our Engineering fields.

Engineers seem to think alike and we are interested by the similar topics that we view our own special way. Keep CR4 the Engineer's place (even if not all the 'gineers have college degrees).

Drew K

Perhaps I should have clarified in my original post that the focus of the site will still be engineering. That's why I didn't include sections like finance or government from the IHS industries list. A change in the sections would change where something is posted but not what is posted.

I didn't consider that the replies would change based on section placement because many state that they only find threads via the list of all threads or the Daily Digest. Your point about cross fertilization from different industries is a very good one to consider.

Mizuti writes: "Of all of the newly proposed areas, engineering isn't even listed,"

Yes, but that 'section' is implied by the site itself. Kinda like looking on a Mall directory for 'Mall'. The site is its own 'section', IMO.

Agree with that, having discipline sections will tend to polarise the posts. One of the joys of this site is finding those posts with either amusing or relevant information which you might have passed by in a section which you felt was not related to your own work. I expect that most of us dip in & out of CR4 in odd moments and don't have the time to search thoroughly.

"The stuff posted here on CR4 can be better shared with and integrated with other divisions of IHS"

CR4 is a division of IHS? What's the pay scale for this "email an Engineer", text a tech" job?

IHS is the canopy company that has I.T., Engineering, and financial services.

GlobalSpec is the nuts & bolts company that connects customers and vendors.

CR4 is the bait that GlobalSpec uses to get Engineering types to use their services. But it sounds like it is becoming/going-to-become a technical library for IHS/GlobalSpec.

Your are right the engineering disciplines are not defined as well as they could. As I see it some definition is better then none. Which is what you propose in your change to Industry-based sections.I can see the alignment to IHS. Can't see how related information spread out through all the industry base sections will make it easier. The same mechanical engineering problems could be face by any one of these industries. The problem being related by engineering disciplined not by industry type.

"The same mechanical engineering problems could be face by any one of these industries."

This is a good point and a valid reason for sections by discipline.

The problem is that neither approach covers everything and combining disciplines and industries can be a little messy.

Aerospace is a section that has been requested often over the years. There was a thread about it a few months ago.

I am surprised to see Manufacturing left out in an industry-based reorganization.

Besides the questions that pertain to the manufacture of specific items, there are occasionally questions or discussions about process engineering which show up in that section, and are interesting for those of us who design production processes. I can see that process engineering questions could go to each industry, but manufacturing is still left out....

I also see the reduction of 'Chemical and Material Science' to 'Chemicals' as a lossy one, leaving no place for questions that consider a variety of material options for a specific use. Materials Science encompasses a lot more than chemicals. Again, questions about manufactured items that are not exclusively metal or plastic and that do not pertain to construction industry or aerospace etc. specifically, have no place to be under the proposed classification.

I also think that a reduction in the number of categories will make it harder for the person with the relevant expertise to find or notice a thread where they could offer useful advice. It is wrong to assume that 'most people' use the 'See all forum threads' option, it took me a long while to find it myself and Drew commented the same. Also there may be contributors who only read in their own discipline, I know I have benefitted several times from the advice of persons who saw my question and popped in, but are not 'regulars' who will read every thread every day. In the proposed categories, electrical and mechanical engineering questions will mostly be lumped together under Construction. Sort of reminds me of a construction site where pipes, lumber and wiring are all mingled together in a heap. Changes to the site organization should improve it, not disorganize it, and increase the OP's access to relevant expertise and the contributors' awareness and ease of making the relevant contribution. If that means sub-forums under Construction (and perhaps other categories), fine, do it that way. Otherwise it will seriously reduce the value of the site.

Thank you for your thoughts. This is why I started the thread. Individuals think differently and organize differently. Everyone's feedback is helpful!

SavvyExacta, I have a question about this:

What will become of the forum posts that exist today?

Please forgive me if I missed this question from another.

[edit: Oh, look... a shiney is available!]

In the event of any changes, recent forum posts will be shifted into the section with the best fit.

And what about non-recent forum posts?

Drew K

They might be moved at a later time. Moving posts is a very manual process.

Savvy you said "Moving posts is a very manual process."

I wouldn't doubt that in the least. 'Monumental task' is a phrase that comes to mind.

What if I wanted to read the first (at this writing) CR4 thread with more than two responses? How about if I wanted to confirm the rumor that Roger Pink got some electronic ink here at CR4 even before he registered... twice, in fact.

I don't know about anyone else, but when I search CR4, I search ALL of it. It seems the potential loss of an extremely valuable resource is at hand.

The old posts wouldn't disappear. They would just seem to be in the "wrong" section of they'd be in General.

Oh, good. My concern was the same as Doorman's.

_{As far as I know onlyon legendary thread has been lost to the world wide web...}

Drew K

I propose

The basement. A place for all the near useless rambling whatevers that aren't quite junk but probably will never see the light of day ever again anyway threads.

Flaming rants, raves, and general melt downs. Self explanatory.

Conspiracies and crack pots. Self explanatory again.

Anti science and gullibility. Need I say more?

The broken link. Rambling topics that don't go anywhere or serve any function related to what their title suggests.

"The broken link. Rambling topics that don't go anywhere or serve any function related to what their title suggests."

That would belong under the Government branch of the IHS Unholy Trinity, I believe. [Just down the corridor and to your left. (Don't mind the screams coming from next door. That's just the Getting Hit Over the Head Lessons bunch taking their final exams)]

I don't see why we need any sections anyway, they can use a search feature that works off the tags....That way if somebody is interested in a particular subject they could just list the tags, and everybody could just tag their posts with relevant words....It seems more efficient....

The way the tag system works now is that anyone can enter tags in any format. So you might have:

• solar
• solar energy
• solar_energy
• solar energies

The tags all imply the same thing but wouldn't show up unless you searched for them exactly as displayed.

No boolean search?

http://www.internettutorials.net/boolean.asp