Oh you're marooned buddy!

Well I did get a reply but can not answer, please answe direct to helliwellash@aol.com

OK I'll try to pick it up over there. If I missed, sorry. If I don't I am sure your retort shall be equally as reflective as mine. :-p

Something like a parabolic mirror or a fresnel lens. Maybe a good telescope.

Having a fun time talking to yourself?

In all seriousness, I'd go very low tech. An axe. Sure it's not scientific, but you need a blade to open coconuts for food and water; if you find flint or similar stone, it will help with fire building; felling trees; building shelter; butchering meat; can be used as a lever, and so much more.

Hiya Silas; Actually it was a tad funny. I forgot that my laptop talks to my pc via IR. It was sending me my own message. However your answer is sound. So far I agree. Let's see what else comes up! Ash

H.G Wells's Time Machine maybe in the future civilization will find me since i can't leave.

A laptop and internet connection. To advertise and sell real estate. populate the place and get some trade going. (no rule to stop people getting in)

I will declare myself king - no politicians allowed.

thats right ideas ofcourse..........................................................

Stout twine (kevlar ideally) and a small axe/machette or Bowie knife.

So I can make snares and a bow & arrows to catch food.

Bliss no radio/TV/Ipods etc.

Oh boy Del; What the heck were you planing to catch? I do not know any remote islands that have game. Perhaps a long bow or a cat to string it by. But it is very interesting just to hear the global perspective.

Just thinking Rabbit, Gopher, Grouse, Duck.

With a nice Rocket and wild garlic side salad....

Oooo yes and there would be a nice stream of St Emillion burbling over the rocks...and these native girls....dammit I've woken up!

OK Del! enough is enough. I grant you this. You are the second in line to the thrown of comedy. When I abdicate I leave you in charge. ( aside: note to everyone.....RUN LIKE HELL! ) Hey but anyway, check out coffebeans comments. Should we let him in to our reign of absoundness?

Bush instinct tells me a fully loaded Swiss Army knife.

I have thought upon this, a heavy duty hunting knife. One of those old steel kind that can take a slight bend and not break and when you sharpen it it will hold the edge for quite a while. I had one for may years and then the lovely wife said it was old ugly and rusty looking. I miss it when I really want a knife that will take a little brute force, and then can be used right after i hone it again.

Well at least you have established precedent from your wife that its the right thing to do to get rid of things when they get old, ugly and rusty looking. Courts love precedents. They are so, so , rational...

BTW, if you take the axe head off the handle, you can use it as a plumb bob, assuring that you have perpendicular right on you r sundial and walls of your shelter. Real engineers will want means to assure accuracy...

milo

An offshore oil drilling rig. No need to drill for oil though, just enjoy the amenities. built to withstand high winds and weather, full kitchen, work shop, tools. Nice pillows, Satellite TV and a real toilet with (oh yeah) an abundant supply of toilet paper!

That's like asking the Genie who grants one wish for a thousand more wishes! Not in the spirit of the game, old boy!

Oh! But this COULD be reality!!!! Don't look for anything but being able to survive.

How about an iridium phone or failing that an EPRB.

If you couldn't get off the island you could at least call for people to drop what ever supplies you needed off with the satellite phone. You man need an Amex card as well if they aren't feeling charitable.

Sorry; You couldn't pay the bill!

Actually, according to the Iridium Manual you can always place a call with a satellite phone even if the phone is locked. The only requirements are an operational battery or power supply and detection of any of the satellite phone networks.

So, it doesn't matter if you didn't' pay the bill because you can still place an emergency call.

Masu; You are thinking too much!! Think less and look instead.

Hi Ash,

First question: does the winner get a prize?

I would have to go with a version of the Swiss army knife. Not just any Swiss army knife mind you, but the Binford 8000 turbo-charged monster "all in one" personal, deluxe cutting/rasping/drilling/hammering/prying/nailing survival knife. This baby even comes with pop-out mosquito netting. Al Borland gave me good insights on this one.

However, in the spirit of the question that you posed: one piece of scientific equipment and a journal. By that I assume you mean some item with which to do research and not something which is designed mainly for survival. Is that correct?

If this is on track, I would probably go with a microscope or possibly a mass spectrometer. I'm thinking here about the movie "Medicine Man" starring Sean Connery and Loraine Bracco. For those who have seen it, notice no one ever ate or relieved themselves, etc. (inclement weather (rain) bothered no one) so personal survival was secondary to research. I rest my case.

John

You're right Johnjohn, he did say "One piece of Scientific equipment" or actually "....one of piece of scientific equipment". So, in the spirit of science and engineering, I would probably go with a total body, brain and tissue monitor with recording and video capabilities, so it could follow me as I find places to go to the restroom forage for food (although he didn't specify WHERE the marooning was, it could be New York City!! ) and monitor my vital signs as I slowly die. The journal will record my last thoughts and other insanity as I curse Ashman for putting me here and record (not exactly my dying breath, but when I run out of energy or desire to write further) my last pathetic thoughts. On a deserted island I may last a few months, in NYC, a few hours! At least science will know what it is like as one approaches death from natural causes. Of course, Science's nemesis, the Legal profession will doubtless discredit the findings and prove Ashman guilty of involuntary manslaughter and his next post will be asking for legal help on the Legal advice web site.

Not so fast about who's right. I think the right thing to ask for would be a Robot. I do mean a fully working model of the latest thing they have to offer. Think about it, even if you didn't know where you were at he could tell you. He could tell you what you could eat in the area your in and how to survive in it also. Of course it would have to be a female Robot ( that way you would always know the answers were right ) machined and put together in the USA with electronics from Japan and no parts made from slave labor in China.

And customer support from India.

LMAO, I just can't believe you went there,,,,,,about to cause me to split a gut laughing fellow.

As you said though "no parts made from slave labor from China". However, the assembly manual will undoubtedly be created by the Chinese:

"You are sure to liking the enclosinged magazine for instruction words. We writing are this book so to be puzzle for your funning."

All credit goes to Blink for that one. He made me LMAO when I read it (another forum, another topic).

Cheers,

John

Hey! Behave all you!!!!

First answer....At he very least, OFF.

Sorry....The 't' didn't stick. I meant: At least, the very least, OFF!

A tricoder or a phaser

Imagination runs wild here but really Tom Hanks made do only with a pet coconut shell named Wilson to preserve sanity. I´m reminded of a contest a read about many years ago, a team event for child geniuses. The teams were given paper clips, a box of matches, a spool of twine, a candle, and a few other odd items I can´t recall . They were then placed in locked rooms and given 8 hours to build something. And some actually did build mechanical devices out of those loose items.

Actually, Wilson was a volleyball, so named because that was the name of its manufacturer. (I noticed that post #29 indicated a football, which made me beleive that the poster was from Europe, because I did actually think at first that it was a soccer ball. I looked it up on the Internet though, and a number of websites identified it as a volleyball.)

Hey Data; Thanks for getting facts correct on that. But..we do not know if at the time he watched the movie his mind was not on a pair of fancy coconuts. I think that's a gim'y

OK. Too bad there's no possiblility of rescue. In the North Woods, we know that the most important survival item to bring along, in case you get lost, is a deck of cards. The idea is to immediately start playing Solitaire with the cards. Guaranteed, within a couple of hours, some jerk will be looking over your shoulder telling you to put the black jack on the red queen!

You didn't say where I was to be marooned. I'd choose a deserted South Pacific Island with a varied geophysical makeup and plenty of varied greenery. I think the lack of the fair sex is a deliberate act of cruelty; but OK... at least the deserted island would be a good start at survival.

As you have postulated no chance of rescue, I guess I'd bring along a machete, possibly made with katana-like folding for longitudinal strength and long life, and a (cobalt steel or titanium or chrome/vanadium) treated edge for durability. I could use it to cut, dig, make hunting weapons, prepare food, make water, start a fire, build shelter, and create technology and art. Since such a machete probably doesn't exist in the real world, making it would constitute satisfying the scientific requirements.

Mark

Great idea. the cards. But now you're stuck with a jerkl andstill no chance of escape.

does machete= sword?

pen is mightier than the sword, and with out a pen the presence of the journal is, well, either torture or a poor proxy for toilet paper.

pen

milo

IF i could only ask for 1 thing it would be a 5 star resort

BRILLIANT- best answer so far IMO. Although it might be debatable if it is a piece of scientific equipment...unless it comes with bathing beauties in which case you could study the mating rituals of ....well i say no more.

Milo; The Mind is more mighty than the pen! That is a BIG hint to the rest of the thread. Remember I did say journal. I said nothing of a pen! That was science to cave man wasn't it?

Your point about the mind is well taken.

Well Whatever you're driving at is pretty abstruse.

A watch is a piece of scientific equipment, it solved the longitude problem. and i could hang it from a string to use it as a plumb bob, so now I can set up my celestial observatory and predict the lack of changing seasons in my new tropical confines.

Plus, presuming I have magical means of taking off its crystal, I can put water in and create lens for firemaking.

But frankly, i'd rather have a couple Pilot G-2 0.7 mm gel pens if I can't have Mary-Ann.

milo

Ahh, the old Maryann vs. Ginger debate begins...

my vote is also for Maryann

I don't know, wasn't Gilligan mighty friendly with a chimp in one episode? He seemed to have a real penchant for animals, didn't he?

He was just shy around girls. I think they converted him in one of the final episodes

Wilson. The foot ball.

How about a barometer. If nothing else you could watch the needle go up and down.

Mike

Do not waste you science! If you want to watch things go up and down, watch the tide.

If you really wanted to go basic I think some sort of generator that was capable of generating a usable voltage and some insulated copper wire. With a little bit of tinkering you could build yourself a spark gap transmitter and send out a distress signal. Spark gap transmitters are notoriously broad band transmitters and will cause a massive amount of interference on just about every radio frequency that is currently in use regardless of whether it is AM of FM. If you make enough noise sooner or later somebody is going to come and investigate because they can't watch their favorite repeat of Star Trek and bingo you are out of there.

In reality however the EPRB is definitely the way to go as you are just about guaranteed to get somebody to come and investigate no matter where you are on the planet. They work surprisingly well and you would be astonished at the response you can get. At a gliding regatta some 15 years ago we had one go off by accident and we had a call from the emergency services within an hour of it being tripped. They had tracked the signal down to the airfield within the hour and were in the process of getting a more accurate fix when we found the offending EPRB and shut it down. Considering how little they cost and effective they are you are being really stupid if you go into any sort of situation where you may find yourself stranded without one. I had a small pocket sized EPRB that I carried in my flying suit whenever flying gliders just in case I needed to land it in a paddock and couldn't get to help. I never used it but it was good to know it was there if ever really needed in an emergency.

I did not say the scientific equipment was the USS Enterprise loaded with everything! Keep it simple!

Since there seem to be no rules here, I opt for Robby the Robot. "Would sixty gallons be sufficient?". To those that are unaware, or not of my generation, he was able to synthesize just about anything from his data banks. If he had a sample he could create any quantity desired and save the data for future use. "Forbidden Planet"

Great Movie! In the footsteps of "The Tempest".

First choice is a solar powered laptop with satellite up-link.

Second choice. . . a replicator.

-A-

"Second choice. . . a replicator."

But from which universe, Star Trek or Stargate? I will assume you mean Star Trek, because the Replicators in Stargate:SG1 and Atlantis were evil machines bent on the destruction of all intelligent carbon-based life forms, or at least humans and the Asgard (ET or LGM-like benevolent and friendly aliens).

Stargate:SG1 takes place in present time, however, humans have secretly acquired advanced technology from friendly (or not so friendly) aliens they encountered by travelling through the Stargate system. The Stargate is a controlled worm-hole interstellar travel device left on Earth (and many other planets) by The Ancients, an extinct (or nearly so, remnants keep popping up) race of humanoids. The Atlantis Expedition travels to another Galaxy to find the Lost City of the Ancients, also known as Atlantis and keep discovering new technologies developed or under development by the Ancients at the time of their demise.

You would have thought with all their advanced technology, The Ancients would have left behind a "Star Trek" type food replicator, but the most recent episode of SG:A shows a lunchroom with a buffet table full of, guess what, vending machine-type sandwiches. What, were they short on their prop budget and brought in the cast/crew lunch table as a stand-in?

ROFL

Yeah, wow. I suppose I should have specified. I didn't know about the SG1 replicators. sounds like things would get pretty interesting on the ol' island if you ask for the wrong one.

Can you imagine our hypothetical engineer running around the island armed only with a slide rule and a machete, possibly made with katana-like folding, desperately trying to avoid a killer robot? Kind of like "Lost" meets "Numb3rs." I think I just invented my favorite show! Pass the popcorn!

-A-

What is the significance of your Avatar (Equals to 1.84467... x 10¹⁹)?

Wait a minute...

Is that the largest number that can be held in a 64 bit binary memory?

Why did you choose that?

Maybe it would be more like "Man Vs. Wild" meets "Terminator." Either way, sign me up! (as a viewer)

As for the avatar. . .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Half_of_the_Chessboard

-A-

"Man vs. Wild" is so faked! In a recent episode on the Moab Desert, Bear follows a canyon hoping it will lead to a river. Instead he encounters shear walls he cannot climb, a snag of branches deposited by a previous flash flood that he fears climbing over for fear it will collapse causing him injury, so he decides to swim under it.

Swim under it? Without knowing how long it is? To build the drama, he doesn't quite make it on his first try, but does "see light". On his next try he makes it, only to find his way blocked again a little further, however, NOW he sees an opportunity to climb out of the canyon by using the chimney method (forcing his feet and other body parts against two parallel walls for grip).

Funny thing, he actually warns against the dangers of travelling through a canyon in the first place, since flash floods, like the one which deposited the snag, some occurring hundreds of miles away, often kill unwary hikers.

Secondly, are we really to believe that he would risk his life for a TV show, swimming underwater for an unknown distance, where he might drown? And how convenient that there was a spot to climb out when he needed it. How many other spots like that had been bypassed earlier?

Don't get me wrong, MVW is highly entertaining and even informative, if you take some of the advice with a huge grain of salt.

There are many other examples where Bear seems to take more risk than is really necessary, and appears luckier than you or I would be if put in the same situation!

For a more realistic approach, I prefer the real trials and perils of "Survivorman". Maybe not quite as dramatic as MVW, but he gets my vote for realism and seeing how well his survival techniques actually work.

Noooo. Ray Mears is the man !

I'd like to set them in some nasty place and have them compete to find a winner. My money is on Ray , I wouldn't be fooled by that calm exterior.

Hey!

Who're you wishing Replicators on?

On the other hand, it might be interesting to use my katana-folded machete to construct a Replicator trap. Are they edible?

Mark

Of all your pro-ported uses for the "katana-folded machete," my favorite is that you say you can use it to "make water." Thinking about facing a killer robot on a remote island while armed with only a machete (Katana-folded of course) makes me think I would be the one "making water."

-A-

Great diversion tactic!

I'll rig a little waterfall that looks like somebody taking a....er, being nervous; and while it's watching sneak up behind it with my katana-folded machete and whack its, um, head(?) off. Which would the best part of a Replicator to whack off be? Are they bi-pedal? Do Replicators have heads? Are they strictly mechanical, or are they biological in makeup?

Help me here...if some nasty robot shows up on my deserted island and means to do me harm, I'd really like to whack some important part of it off with my katana-folded machete to stop it for good.

Hmmm. Maybe it's not inherently evil. Maybe there's some chip or something that helps run its evil nature. Maybe I could just whack off its evil chip with my katana-folded machete, and then the Replicator and I could be friends!

Mark

As I recall, the Stargate SG-1 Replicators were essentially nanobots which could link up to form more complex structures and robots as well as manufacture more of themselves by consuming additional metal. Therefore, they would not be edible. However, they could "eat" you! Not really digest you, just tear you apart.

I believe they would consume whatever metal material was available and therefore their composition would take on the characteristics of that metal. Their preferred metal was Naquada (sp?), a fictional metallic element (not just an alloy, since they mined deposits of Naquada ore). Naquada was/is apparently a super-metal, impervious to almost any kind of heat, acid, mechanic force, etc., yet it could be fashioned into all kinds of weapons and even become the core of an explosive or fuel a reactor/generator to produce electricity. Naquada might be what we here on Earth refer to as "Unobtainium". Another form of Naquada (an isotope perhaps?) was called Naquadria, and was supposed to be able to produce a Thermonuclear (or greater) scale of explosion.

The use of Naquada made the Replicators somewhat impervious to many conventional means of destruction (heat, chemicals, etc.), yet small arms fire seem to shatter their robotic form, at least temporarily. Well, at least if made for good action sequences! However, in one episode Replicators consumed part of a Russian submarine made largely from plain old steel, and thus were susceptible to rusting in the saltwater, since they had no one to paint them with a rustproof coating!

Now, if your Katana-folded machete was to be constructed of Naquada, you would have a fairly indestructible blade.

By the way, did you see the Mythbusters episode where they looked at the Movie Myth of one sword cutting another sward in half? They were not able to cut a genuine Japanese Katana-sword, although they did nick it a little, with any other blade they tried, which included, I believe, a Viking sword, a Scottish Claymore ("Braveheart" medieval style two-handed double-edge great sword, not the later one-handed basket-hilted smaller broadsword) as well as several other smaller swords. They were able to make the Katana snap-off, due to the tremendous whipping it took, but it was not cut at the point of impact., however at the same time it took a large chunk out of the massively thick Viking Sword. Most of the time the Katana either destroyed its target or flexed and bounced off with little or no damage.

Ashman,

I am surprised at you! We need a little better context. Are we to assume being marooned on a tropical pacific island, since you alluded to Mary-Ann or Ginger?

With that in mind, and "no chance of getting off this place" and being allowed only one piece of equipment (could that be a system, since I note some people including accessory equipment?), I will choose a modern, compact all-mode, all-band HF+ Amateur Radio. Of course this includes an antenna, cables, wire, and power supply (solar/battery system) as well has other accessories (Hey, some people consider a PC as an accessory to a Ham Station, too!)

Why? Well, with no chance of rescue, and assuming, like Gilligan's Island, a mild climate with an abundance of edible fruits and vegetables, possibly even some small game and fish, as well as a fresh water supply, most of my survival needs are taken care of. That leaves my emotional and mental needs. This was clearly illustrated in the film Castaway. We humans crave fellowship, even if it has to be imaginary, like creating Wilson from a Volleyball. With a Ham Radio, I can have verbal contact with real people from all over the world. These radios also include a built-in Shortwave receiver as standard, so I could get news, sports, music, talk, and weather programs and information from all over the world. Remember how vital the Radio was on Gilligan's island? It entertained them, informed them of serious whether conditions, visitors, etc.

I considered the PC and Internet link, however I think one would crave voice contact (Yes, I know VoIP would be possible with the Internet), and the Ham Radio "fraternity" remains one of the largest and most open and friendly "communities" on any communications medium. Also, remaining connected to the Internet could become problematic as software changes and equipment is upgraded so quickly. New modes do occur in Ham Radio as well, however, older modes seldom vanish. Ham Radio remains the only communications system to keep Morse Code (CW) as a viable and major mode. The main HF voice mode, Single Sideband, should remain viable as well, at least for my lifetime, even though digital voice modes are currently being developed. I could play chess via radio if I so desired. I could talk to loved ones either directly or through a telephone system interconnecting "phone patch".

Of course, all of this sort of begs the question, since, if you can make radio contact, rescue should not be far behind, but that is the chance you take with one of these open-ended questions!

Would I ever lack for contacts? Are you kidding? I would be the rarest of the rare DX and I would generate a pileup on whatever band on which I would choose to operate!

Oh, yeah, that journal? Why, that would become my radio Logbook of course!

You are so very close; Your comments and inquires are part and parcel of the question aren't they? Although, there is a correct answer and 30 or so have tried. I am not sure if I can update the question with my, comment? Or, I will ask 'Del the Cat' link it to update the question for me. And/or thru' another thread. I shall call it....'Keep it simple marooned!' Although, I have to go through the rest of the comments before I find out if anyone won the prize! ( For puposes of liability I must say there is not a prize' ), there is an answer. You are, as other have been correct, it is a single piece of scientific device. I'll try to elaborate, or I'll ask Del, I trurst the guy.Besides, Del is too funny to hurt anyone!

There is a correct answer? I thought it was hypothetical. Great, now I have to have a think about it. Can I have a pen?

Maybe I should have termed it: "there is a correct answer for everyone". But there is a very obvious one, in my opinion. Sort of like an answer that a lawyer would keep you out of jail with. <-That wasn't a hint, really. ash

A pen? It is certainly mightier than the sword, and complements the journal well (although with no chance of your rescue, or implied recovery of said journal it hardly seems worth writing in).

You weren't planning on using your quartz tube to focus the suns rays to create fire and/or write in your journal with it were you.

I don't know, it all seems a bit abstract when the question and situation are so, well under-defined and open-ended.

If I was here , even a dead cat would be of no use. Does 'somebody to argue' with qualify as an answer?

An old school Kabar.

netmaker

No; But you could get 'Pretty-Pissed-Off-Fish' disease!

even a dead cat would be of no use.

Well there is enough room on Rockall island to swing it.

Come on now, if a former member of the SAS can live on the island for over a month, I am sure a properly motivated engineer could go 3 months (why it would take me that long to get the telescope set up.....just right).

I'd import some materials and build something like this . I wouldn't want to be rescued or anything. I hereby bequithe you Rockall , a dead cat , and a randy SAS bloke.Nowhere to run - oo er. I'm off to look for a deserted fort .

"Come on now, if a former member of the SAS can live on the island for over a month, I am sure a properly motivated engineer could go 3 months"

Weather permitting of course! See below!

From the Wikipedia: The rock is about 25 metres (83 ft) wide at its base and rises sheer to a height of approximately 22 metres (72 ft). It is regularly washed over by large storm waves, particularly in winter.

I suppose a specially built platform, fully watertight when necessary, could be helicoptered over the site and secured to the rock, but, man, what a ride! Can you imagine looking out a porthole and watching a 30-40 meter wave coming straight at you? Over and over? I would wonder, just how secure WERE those anchor points in the rock?

Tell me, did the SAS fellow have SCUBA gear, or just hold his breath and hang on for dear life while the waves crashed over him? Did he just get lucky and have fair weather the whole time?

Well, apparently he was planning to originally spend 6 months in an errected shelter. I don't have any further information, but I am sure it can be found on the Web.

British and New Zealand SAS are made of strong stuff.

Are you saying the Aussie SAS are wimps?

I have had no experience with Australian SAS but.............

(There was more I was going to put down but I have had second thoughts, and will just leave it at that. Anyone else seen a SAS small-arms killing room up close).

"Anyone else seen a SAS small-arms killing room up close"

Do you mean, "...and lived to tell about it!"?

Well I don't know what your guys get up to with SEAL training, but as far as I am aware there have never been any fatal accidents in the small-arms killing room. You may have another name for it over there. It is a live-fire 360 degree close-quarters combat simulator. Some of you may remember it from the 1990's movie "Navy Seals" with Charlie sheen. An accurate portrayal of US special forces (yeah right. ROFL). The real room looks NOTHING like it (and you certainly don't put a reporter in the middle of it during an exercise). The less said the better (oh boy, I don't think they did anything right in that movie. I am surprised they didn't walk around with jackets with "NAVY SEAL" written on it in big letters. US Satirical Forces more like it.

Oh, I thought you were talking about the room used for interrogation and other fun stuff, sometimes known as "wet work".

sometimes known as "wet work" Oh man, you should not believe everything you see in the movies. I hope you also don't think that the FBI are a bunch of idiots that couldn't find their arse with both hands (as they are often portrayed), or that the CIA resembles a bunch of Charlie Chaplin-like keystone cops.

I can honestly say that I know NO ONE that says "wet work" (but admittedly it could have been a buzz word for a specific US agency in the past). Some movie myths do have an element of truth after all.

"Oh man, you should not believe everything you see in the movies."

Of course not! It's the CIA who are a bunch of idiots. Remember that great intel on the WMD in Iraq? We are still looking for those 5 years later, right?

Seriously, though, I highly respect our FBI, and the CIA usually does a reasonably good job. There are the occasional goof-ups though. For the CIA, Iraq and WMD's was a big one, unless of course it was intentional and a lie from the outset. FBI has had a fairly decent record since the disaster at Waco. Unless of course you count the WTC attack on 9-11, which would be a little like blaming Army and Naval Intelligence for the Pearl Harbor attack on Dec. 7, 1941.

What were MI-5/MI-6 or Scotland Yard's biggest mistakes in recent years? Has the Mossad ever had a big screw-up?

Hi STL Engineer,

"Unless of course you count the WTC attack on 9-11, which would be a little like blaming Army and Naval Intelligence for the Pearl Harbor attack on Dec. 7, 1941."

Since we have now moved on to "military intelligence" which rates up there with that great oxymoron "airline food", I saw a program that looked at the code breaking effort of the allied forces in WWII.

By the time of the Pearl Harbor attack the Japanese Naval communications code was broken and they allied command had a pretty good idea of what they were up to well in advance. There was evidently a intercepted communication several days prior to the attack that gave the details including the date and time that the attack was to take place. The problem was that the were not precisely sure where and it could have been either Singapore or Pearl Harbor. The thing is Singapore is some 19 hours ahead of Pearl Harbor and so when the attack didn't' take pace there they had almost a days notice that it was going to be Pearl Harbor.

Another interesting point was the way the aircraft carriers were all move out of port before the attack without any battleships. By that stage the Bismarck, the pride of the German navy and most advanced battleship to date, had been crippled by a handful of Fairey Swordfish torpedo bombers. The Fairey Swordfish was out of date and nicknamed the bag of string by the pilots that flew it. However, it flew so low and slow that the high tech aiming mechanisms on the Bismarck couldn't track them and never managed to even shoot a single one down. The Fairey Swordfish was so out of date and slow that if there was a decent headwind blowing, the aircraft carriers they were based on could not steam at full speed, because they couldn't fly fast enough to catch it. Yet this piece of out dated naval aviation was clearly capable of bringing the mightiest battleship of the time to is knees.

Clearly the day of the battleship was over and they were no longer worth anything but scrap. So, what better way to get the American public enraged and behind the war than by letting the Japanese navy sink your out of date battleships in a surprise attack, while making sure that the important aircraft carriers were out of harms way.

I wonder what would have happened if the Japanese attack was intercepted an prevented from attacking Pearl Harbor? Would the American people have been equally as outraged and eager to get involved in a war that more than likely wouldn't have spread to the mainland?

Now I am not saying that this is what happened and I am only reporting on what the program hypothesized, but, it is an interesting thought and it dose fit the fact as they were presented.

Oh, Masu! Now you have stepped in it! That can of worms has been debated a long time. I only meant that the situation is far more complicated than a simple blaming and pointing of fingers, and you have just proved me right.

Maybe I am a little naive, but I don't believe that the US government deliberately ignored the warnings being delivered by the intelligence services, sacrificing thousands of American lives just so we could dump obsolete hardware and get the backing of the people to enter the war. I think we would have been just as ready to get into the war if the attack had come and we were prepared for it, and it had been a resounding victory for the US forces. "How dare they attack US soil!" would have been the battle cry uttered from sea-to-shiny-sea, and how swift would have been the counterattack. Instead, our Navy had to drop back and regroup, making it easier for the Japanese to complete their overall plan of invading the Philippines, Midway Island, the Aleutians, and other US and Allied territories in the Pacific.

Although older, those capital ships and many others, that were sunk at Pearl Harbor could have done yeoman service for a few years more and the experienced veterans who manned them, and whose lives were lost, would have been an important resource the Brass would not have wanted to lose, even forgetting for the moment the emotional devastation it had on loved ones, friends and family, as well as public morale. Yes, "Remember Pearl Harbor" would have been just as effective a slogan if we had won the battle, since it was, after all, still a "sneak attack", without a formal declaration of war (which was much more important in those days then it is now!).

Interesting that you used the example of an obsolete weapons system being capable of inflicting such a serious blow, yet overlooked that part of the victory to justify reasoning why US Naval brass would want to sacrifice our "obsolete" battleships! Hmmm, maybe we should have set up a "Reverse Lend-Lease" program to equip the US Navy with the Fairey Swordfish to counter-attack the Japanese fleet! However, I think we had our own quantity of obsolete torpedo planes in inventory as well!

Gidday STL Engineer,

"Oh, Masu! Now you have stepped in it! That can of worms has been debated a long time. I only meant that the situation is far more complicated than a simple blaming and pointing of fingers, and you have just proved me right."

You are of course absolutely correct and the whole thing is extremely complex and I am not supporting the concept but rather just reporting on the program and what it hypothesized. I am interested to see what people from other countries understand of the situation and am an to an extent playing devils advocate.

"Interesting that you used the example of an obsolete weapons system being capable of inflicting such a serious blow, yet overlooked that part of the victory to justify reasoning why US Naval brass would want to sacrifice our "obsolete" battleships!"

Again you are correct and the battleships could and did play an important part in the naval operations of WWII. The loss of life and experience is although something that was horrendous and far worse than the loss of a handful of ships. The point I was making was the even the crappiest aircraft could successfully bring a state of the art battleship to its knees by crippling its steering gear. The introduction of naval air power and the aircraft carrier was the direction of the future and the navies that did not take heed of this were doomed to failure. The Japanese seem to have learnt this and after delays and losses of aircraft carriers decided to convert the remaining unfinished Yamato Class Battleships to super carriers like the Shinano.

It's all highly speculative and I doubt that it is true, but, it is certainly a good discussion topic, so, get to it folks, rip into it and tear it to little pieces.

PS My family emblem is a large spoon sitting in a toilet bowl!

PS My family emblem is a large spoon sitting in a toilet bowl!

Australians. Pure class.

Hey!!!!!!! All of you! I will tell you right now what you were is only a reflection of what you are or could or can be today! We have all put forth our best to enable such a forum. Please don't blow it! If anyone has a problem with that call me right now!! e-mail me directly: helliwellash@aol.com ! DO NOT EVER USE ANONYMITY TO INSULT! Don't pas Go, do get $200. :go home! Thank-you

My comments are in context, as are Masu's (which were also meant as an intended joke), as was the (implied anyway) intention of this whole forum thread on a hypothetical situation.

What do you have an issue with?

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That is not a very helpful answer you know.

Please folks; As to protect my own behind, let's leave my SAS, FBI, KGB, CSIS, CIA, MJ12 and EG&G, out of it please!

Fine. I will let the guys know.

LEGO. Nothing like Lego to while away the hours before computers came along. There is not a great deal you CANNOT build using Lego blocks and all their addons (full dinner set anyone). A HUGE Lego set (Thinking about it, I now have a strong desire to build a house out of it too while I am there, with a nice big rain water storage tank. And a deck).. A man could do great things with a limitless supply of Lego and a sturdy knife and Axe (hey, you have to protect your creations somehow afterall).

Is it just me or do the Replicators in "Stargate SG1" look like they are made out of metallic Lego blocks.

I was sure glad to see the thread get hijacked and abused so badly. The premise was pretty stupid (in my opinion) but entertaining to say the least, no - the most.

Ashman is going to a deserted island without Ginger or Marianne and chooses instead to be marooned with a quartz tube? What was he thinking? (The professor gives a dark glance in his direction) If I was going to be asking the questions as to, (how did he put it, "what makes a scientist or engineer"? (the correct answer being: years of schooling and experience)) whether or not Ginger and Marianne were going to be there ( I mean, you can have science and engineering and equipment and the girls) why are we to be disenfranchised for the sake of science and engineering? The never being rescued part is (then) a non-issue. (Who cares?)

Of course, Ashman is probably an alien (from another planet other than Mexico) and he is probably trying to hint at a way for us to implement interplanetary travel or something like that...

On the other hand:

I would never underestimate the scientific and engineering feats and discoveries to be attained being stranded on a deserted island with only Ginger and Marianne. Leave the quartz tube, and bring the rum. Real engineers and scientists enjoy life. The rest of them are in it for the money or to impress their Mom (they still live with at 38 years old).

I hope I didn't step on any toes.

Congratulations on pushing the thread even further of centre by mentioning the Draco (some here involved with the free-energy generator threads will know what I am talking about).

The question would have had a far different set of responses if you were marooned with female companionship (no need to play with your quartz tube).

Perhaps it should have been rephrased to indicate that you had the necessities of life and some basic tools but were all alone with no chance of rescue. What would you as an engineer/scientist want to do with your spare time. I myself would have a great time, and could survive and live a happy and sane life (with some help from the magical sparkley elves of course).

Ah, Jack.

I don't what you've got hiding under your bonnet, but pure horsepower. You have hit the nail on the head.

"If marooned on whatever...You didn't have Mary-Ann or Ginger. What piece of scientific of equipment would you want. Rules are, no chance of getting off this place; Just this piece of equipment and a journal."

The term " with no chance of getting off this place" seems somewhat strange in today's technically advanced world. In 1996 Tony Bullimore was rescued form his upturned yacht over 1,000 Km from the nearest landfall, in the middle of the Southern Ocean, during a massive storm, by the Royal Australian Navy. Given that technology has improved since then I would have thought, that given a reasonable amount of time and an operational EPRB, there wouldn't be many, if any, places that you couldn't be rescued from.

I know when I fly a glider I either have one or at least a transmitter that can transmit on the emergency distress frequency of 121.5 MHz. Personally, I think that anybody that goes into an area where they may need to be rescued should have a serious check done on their sanity if they choose not to carry one. In the event of an emergency it can not only reduce the time it takes to rescue you but it save gazillions of dollars in the cost of searching and greatly reduces the risk that would be rescuers are exposed to.

This is interesting. Bligh survived , even if he did go on to have a Second mutiny in Australia.

The mutiny on the Bounty that saw Bligh and a handful of supporting sailors set adrift in a long boat in the middle of the Pacific Ocean is not all of Bligh's making. The mission was poorly organized from the get go and the way the ship was laid out made it impossible for the officers to provide the appearance of authority. If there ever was going to be a mutiny the Bounty under Bligh and Christian was going to be it. Many historians are surprised at how long Bligh managed to keep control for as long as he did. His voyage to safety in the long boat that took them from where they were set adrift to Timor was truly masterful sailing and the work of a skilful master seaman and navigator.

None the less Bligh's tenure as Governor on New South Wales was meant to clean up the "rum trade" black market economy that was dominating the colony at the time. Unfortunately Bligh turned out to be somewhat corrupt himself and he apparently learnt little in the people managing department from his Bounty experience.

He he , you're good masu ! If you ever get turned into a gadget and I get stuck on this improbable Island , I'll have one of you to take.

I just had a incredible thought. I have never held back on my criticism of the high school English and the woeful English teachers at my school. My main complaint was the curriculum and the way it only looked at English literature and completely avoided grammar and technical writing. The sort of things that are pretty essential as an engineer and considering most of the students at the school were looking at some sort of technical career, a fairly serious oversight. Reading Keats and Byron was pretty much a complete waste of time for me and the only way I managed to get started was the hiring if a private tutor and learning on the fly.

Anyway, the reason that I am familiar with the Governor Bligh, Reverend Samuel Marsden story of corruption was that we read a play on the subject in my senior years at high school.

That makes it the very first thing that I was taught in high school English that I have actually used outside high school.. Mind you once in over three decades is still a pretty abysmal record.

In US high schools they no longer call the subject English, but rather Communication Arts. Elementary and Middle Schools focus on Reading as well as Grammar and Composition, with an introduction to Literature, both American and English. I believe there are elective courses available in Technical Composition. Tech Writing was definitely a recommended elective course at University where I was studying Engineering.

Back when I was in school, like you, we mostly got Literature at the High School level. It was expected that you learn the basics of Grammar and Composition at the lower levels. I did learn a lot about the strategy of analytical essays from my High School English Literature teachers, one of whom had a Ph. D. in English and who, co-incidentally, had as a Professor at St. Louis University the Jesuit priest who was the model for the fictional priest in the novel The Exorcist, a popular book and film of that time (1970's), which was based on a true experience of the same priest from years earlier (1949). Our teacher actually spoke the Rite of Exorcism for us, which he learned as the first step in becoming a priest (which, thankfully, for me, he never completed).

As an Engineering student, I tested out of my English Composition requirements. While many of my fellow Honors English classmates who scored the same as I did on the Advanced Placement exams earned 6 credits (two semester classes) in Literature AND 6 credits in Composition from the Universities they chose to attend, my Engineering school would not grant any credits in Literature. Consequently, I waited until my Senior year, when a course in Tolkien Literature (as in JRR Tolkien) was created, to earn my required Lit credits!