Should I Accept a Low Starting Offer to Move Down a Better Career Path?

Okay thank you, it is the only offer I have so far (Fargo) Kiewit has not made an offer yet but they probalby will when my internship ends. Can I ask Kiewit to push there offer forward? I'm pretty sure they want me.

Also I am working with a recruiting company.

I talked to Kiewit upper management, big surprise, they don't know if they can hire me or not (haven't had a meeting about it) and starting salary for a drafter d1 is only 15/hour. Wow that seems low for a 4 year degree. In other words, I don't have a second offer to use as leverage

1) Can I still negotiate/bargain despite this? What is a good number to shoot for?

2) Do I have anything to lose by negotiating?

I only have till noon tommorow as of right now.

Simple. Play Kiewit off against Fargo. Time waits for no-one.

I would also think it wise to factor in Health care costs/benefits.

AH is correct. NEGOTIATE!!!

Search "how to negotiate for a job.

11 Tips for Negotiating Your Next Job Offer - On Careers (usnews ...

Negotiating your job offer - Spencer Stuart

Take the job. The days of corporate/employee loyalty are long gone, so look out for yourself. If a better job comes along, take it.

Our member Doorman lives in Fargo.

Everything others have said is good. I'm coming at this from a different angle.

The person I know finishing up an internship at Kiewit has only good things to say about them. I don't know any of the numbers involved but I didn't get the impression that their pay was less than competitive. I don't know what an MET degree is but you said it was a 4 year degree. Thus, is the position that only pays $15 an hour an appropriate position for you to apply for? No matter how well educated a person is a vocational certificate job will only pay vocational certificate wages.

As far as I know Kiewit does bridges, dams, big buildings, etc. That sounds quite a bit different from design and test of tractors and equipment. Vehicles may go over bridges but design people usually don't go back an forth between bridge design jobs and vehicle design jobs. Look at your education and what you want to do with your professional life. Does one stand out has a better path for you? No matter what a job does or does not pay you probably can't stay in it for a career unless it is in the general area you want to be in.

(Was your internship in Mesa?)

Thanks Bruce, all I know is they said a drafter 1 starts out at $15, and to be honest I don't want to work for Kiewit. They just don't interest me as much. I also am under the impression that with a Mechanical Engineering Technology Degree, I can't become an engineer within Kiewit. Kind of dissapointing when I found that out. I'd be an engineering technologist I guess.

I am married to a mechanical engineer. My husband advised our son to get the 4 year mechanical engineering technology degree because he would receive more practical education and not so much "theory" with it. You are most definitely an Engineer and NOT a technician with that degree! My son now holds a very important position with a terrific company and has a wonderful future ahead of him. Imho, the reason the Fargo company offered you 45K instead of 60K is because they have to pay the head hunter. I would suggest that you lose the recruiter and forget about advertised jobs with tons of competition. Here is what I would do: Start researching companies that interest you - really in-depth research. Find names of some of the engineers at these companies and cold call them, explaining that you have recently graduated and are very interested in a career like theirs. Shower them with compliments (ie: I figured that you would be a fantastic learning resource if you wouldn't mind advising me) and ask to meet with them sometime at their convenience. Networking is vital and you will be better off getting help from one of them than other kids competing for the same work or academics who don't live in the real world. Best of luck to you.

Hey guys, the guy working at the recruitment agency said that there is no more negotiating, he said they typically go through him to negotiate. Also there are no health benefits. Do you think he is being honest about the no-negotiating or just looking out for his best interests?

Who does the recruiter work for, you or the company?

I don't know, I'm guessing the company?

If the recruiter contacted you, then he is working for the company or is an independent recruiter trying to plug employment holes.

Those guys are not all bad once you establish a relationship. I had one like that who turned out to be a long-term friend that landed me a few career jobs before I finally started my own business.

So can I get your opinion, would it be a bad idea to contact the employer and negotiate then? He said not to but on the flip side, I feel that I have a right to discuss those matters with the employer directly instead of through a recruiter.

I use a recruiter. I've hired three people in the last year, and if any of them had called me directly, I'd have referred them back to the recruiter, with very little added conversation.

I'd also deduct some points for not following directions.

I agree with AH.

Were you to try and strike an independent deal
1: The employer may well consider this a breach and recant their offer.
2: The employer may believe you won't follow instructions and recant their offer.

The recruiter has HIS interests at heart. They usually get a lump sum or percentage of your paycheck after you start working. I'm not suggesting that you lose the recruiter with companies that he/she has already introduced you to - that isn't ethical and will probably end up being illegal if you signed a contract with him/her. What I am suggesting is for you to branch out on your own and find a position without the recruiter. It is only common sense that if a company has budgeted X amount for a new hire, that the recruiter's cut will come out of your paycheck!

It sounds like the word "NO" gets used a lot with that recruiter. Possibly that is a hint that you should consider using the same word with him.

A degree guarantees nothing. It only opens a door a little more.

You can look what your fellow students are making.... but remember "Your starting on the ground floor........ "

imo.... What you need is experience. The more well rounded, the better. given the choice, I would go where it would compliment my future the best, if it means what seems like taking a step back today.

Well at this point Solar-Eagle, after figuring out a few things, I have decided not to work for Kiewit so it is a question of whether or not to try to negotiate a higher salary (see post #8).

I never stated making as much money as possible as being a goal. If that was the case I would not be considering a low offer without any benefits. I already knew coming in that the job in North Dakota is more tailored towards my goals.

So it sounds like your mind is made up....You are not in a position to negotiate, so forget that....take the job if you can, before somebody else passes you by....

In that case I am planning on taking the reduced pay for the North Dakota job. I did not know it is such a bad thing to talk to the employer directly, I've never worked with a recruiter before. There were no directions or rules that were made clear, they did not even state to me that they were a recruitment agency until I figured it out.

It really pays to ask questions - who they are, what they do, etc.

Not only does it help you understand who is who, but it demonstrates interest in the company or in this case, their agents.

Graduating from University is not the end of your education, but rather, the beginning. I know it doesn't seem like that now, but it will in a few years. I think this came through loud and clear from all the comments so far! You MUST go to where you can round out and expand your education the most. Period, full stop. Salary negotiations are fun, and expected. I have never heard of anybody who was rejected because they asked for too much! They will just shrug and counter with their own offer. New hires may have to explain why they should get a salary at all!

In any negotiation, it is well to remember that there are two people at the table. The employer has a salary, benefits, and learning opportunities to bring to the table. What have YOU got to bring to the table. Today, it might be a four year degree. Next year, it will be a four year degree combined with a year's experience. Year after that, it will be a four year degree with two years of experience on this, and this AND this. Thats why I would suggest you go with the company which will get you the most experience on the most things. More experience and more diversity makes you more valuable.

To prepare for the interview, learn a boat load of information about the company. Not just the product line, but everything you can google or find out about the job you want. Are you replacing somebody? What was THEIR salary, for instance? Did they have to work 16 hour days just to stay even? Though this might be a bit of overkill, I think you get my point. (I didn't say it was easy, but I have always given precedence to people who can take initiative and will always simply give a pass to the one who could not be arsed to figure out why I want them.)

Don't by-pass their recruiter. You don't need the grief!

(And I see that I have pretty much repeated what Fredski said. Well, its true! Good on ya Fred!)

For me, job satisfaction is more important than $$$$pay, as long as the $$pay is enough to live on. Only you know what living expenses you need.

Your quoting 60K salaries for friends that are working where?

That salary (60K) is typical for new hire engineers in the midwest. So as a mechanical designer, working with BSME's that offer is high in my opinion. Most likely as there are no benefits included.

And Fargo is on the low end of salaries in the midwest. Cost of living is much lower then any large east or west coast cities. You do have to contend with heating bills. And it's a long winter, so unless you know what cold is, your in for a surprise. Not a bad thing, you dress for it. But it affects your mental state as many can't handle it.

I grew up north of Fargo. And it was the main town in ND where engineering jobs could be found (outside of architect firm, and now oil boom in the west of ND).

I'm more surprised that there is no health care included. Everyone else is doing this, so me too.

I assume your job will be mainly a computer operator drawing in some CAD program. This may include ordering prototype parts, first article assembly. Working out design issues. You will learn much.

One friend in Topeka KS starting out at 62,400, the other starting out at 58k, I can't remember where he started out but I believe it was Iowa. I'm pretty sure they both had benefits, I'd be surprised if they didn't.

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Companies have pay scales. If you want the job, take it at what they're offering. It's an entry level position, and your first job. You haven't earned a reputation yet, so negotiating, even if you could, is pointless. Don't blow the opportunity. Nothing is stopping you from looking around while you gain experience with them.

Okay well thanks for the tips. Hopefully it'll work out

Did you take the E.I. exam? If not, do it as soon as possible.

I graduated with a MET degree 30 years ago and the E.I. exam was very difficult but I prepared well for it and passed. The E.I. status will incredibly bolster your degree. Yes, many ME's sneer at us MET's but the E.I. and PE will level the playing field and bring in the money.

Take the exam ASAP.

I have not heard of the E.I. I took the FE and did not pass but I can take it again in the future.

Keep working on the FE exam, it is easier right after college than later when you forget what is in the textbooks.

I went to NDSU for a BSME, they gave me a good education. If time permits, consider them for continuing education. Your prospective employee may fund part of the additional education.

And remember, "40 below keeps the riff raff out!" (sorry, old college joke!)

It WILL work out for you. You just need to be patient.

You're willing to take a risk by making the move, and that attitude will show. But yours is an entry level position and you've just graduated. Companies have pay scales for a reason.

If you want the job, take it at what they are offering. You're just starting out. Money is not always the prize. Corporate culture, working conditions, employee benefits and company rewards can help defer the pain of a lower starting salary. Besides, nothing is stopping you from looking around while you gain experience with them. Remember that you must earn your financial rewards. Work hard, develop your brand, make your industry connections, continually upgrade yourself and keep your eyes open.

I started out 30+ years ago fresh out of college and loaded with debt. I took a job 800 miles away from home to get my career started. I've suffered through a few industry corrections [layoffs] over the years and had to step back a little just to keep working. But I always kept my eye on the bigger picture and have always come out ahead. I have no regrets. Well, I DO have one...with all my moving around, it took a long time to find Mrs. North.

Now I manage six designers/engineers for the company the probably owns that Fargo company. Are its initials FK?

Good luck with your career. Engineering is a noble profession.

I have a question, you say that nothing is stopping me from looking around while gaining experience with them, however if I leave before the contract is up to work a different job, wouldn't that look pretty bad on me and/or leave the company hanging?

If the price etc is right, you can talk to others with an intention to move once the current contract is up. But you may well enjoy the job you have and be able to negotiate a raise to continue if both sides are happy with your performance.

I have obtained a raise to stay at an employer previously, and also had a contract extended mid-way through, so that I would not talk to others. (Good job, worth keeping, instant decision)

Yup, that'd look pretty bad.

If you sign an agreement, you most certainly hold to it. Don't ever sign anything without due consideration.

Sorry. I must have missed that bit about it being a contract position. I would agree with Doorman et al; it WOULD be bad for you to leave before the end of its term. There's usually a financial penalty, at least up here.

The rules are different if it's a permanent position. There may be clauses in your agreement that discourage a premature departure, but these discouragements usually refer to repayment of educational or professional fees, nothing debilitating.

The thinking nowadays is career advancement. I don't think you'll find too many young people willing to spend the rest of their lives in one job. And most companies would not begrudge you the opportunity to move on. Companies want happy employees. As you gain experience and meet more industry cohorts, use this to your advantage. I landed into this company by simply making a phone call.

I'm guessing the initials are PI (owned by JD).

There are several large tech outfits here in Fargo. I know people who work at some big ones, and all tell me they enjoy their work experiences at the respective places.

It's actually not that, I thought that there may be some rules against posting what a company pays so I kept their name anonymous even though technically I'm working for the recruitment company.

Question 1: They need work quick and they have only given me about 1 day to make a decision, is this common? This seems incredibly low time frame to make a decision.

-In my experience that is an unusually short time to make a decision.

-accept offer with delayed start (more think time); if you take a better offer, decline at or before start date

Question 2: Would it be out of line to call them up and try to bargain for a better paycheck?

-not out of line to ask for more compensation; if the answer is no-you still have an offer.

Question 3: What is a realistic offer that I should be shooting for with my degree and experience?

$56,900

By now isn't it the day after tomorrow? How about a follow-up?