Trans-Fats Banned In US

Psst ,,,, hey wanna buy some fat trans-fat....?? $100 a gram,,,, yeah it's pure!

I though the colonel wasn't using trans-fat in their chicken anymore.....

^{their cole slaw is great and I love the original fried chicken}

They don't as of '07....probably some look alike....or maybe just an old cartoon....anyway I love the original recipe too.....

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/11/07/qa-what-are-trans-fats-what-foods-are-they-in/

Well there goes margarine. I wonder if they'll make a new product line, "Better Believe It's Butter".

All the margarines I looked at lately said 0g tranfat on the label.

Can you provide the name of those margarines?

The ones I'm familiar with (primarily Land O'Lakes) all have partially hydrogenated vegetable oil (trans fats) in them.

"Flora" was the brand in my "ice cupboard" that was labelled 0 transfat.

That looks like a good brand...although, if it was available in the US, the food police would be after it for salt content.

http://www.florastrongheart.co.za/Products/Products/Flora-Regular.aspx

I was unable to find the ingredients of Flora on the internet (even on the Flora website). I was able to locate general nutritional information (i.e. calories, grams of fat, etc.).

While the manufacturer may say 0 grams of trans fat, you have to look at the ingredients to see if hydrogenated or partially hydrogenated vegetable oil is in the list. If so, it has trans fat.

About 3/4 of the way down, there's some intersting Flora data.

Thank you. I had found that site on my own, but was looking for something that looked a bit more like a food label so I didn't bother reading the text.

On a separate but tangentially related topic, I find it interesting how many of those in favor of GMO respond to us GMO skeptics by saying there studies which show it's safe and better for you (society - as in we can feed more people for less money and more reliably). That's exactly what was going on back when trans fat started displacing saturated fats (claiming trans fats were more healthful than saturated fats, were less expensive, etc). In the past 15-20 years it's become quite obvious the trans fat pushers were wrong. What we will know about about GMO in 15-20 years? At least with trans fat we can go back to saturated fats.....will it be possible to go back to non-GMO if we discover they do considerable harm? Or will we have stamped natural foods off the planet by then?

That's another big sore spot with me. I also don't think GMO foods should be banned, but they sure as hell shouldn't have been allowed to run rampant and cross pollinate with non-GM strains.

It's another thing that makes this little ban such a joke...the government has been completely complicit in the lies associated with Roundup ready GMOs, the splicing of insecticides, HFCS, the bee decline, the safety of consumed glyphosate, the rising tide of diabetes...it's a long list; and I'd be willing to bet that the detriment to humanity far outstrips anything that trans fats have caused.

I'm on the fence about banning things. My general philosophy is to allow people and businesses to be free (with basic regulation) to make choices. However, I find myself not opposing the banning of trans fat. Perhaps because of how the entire 'saturated fats are bad for you' lie was perpetuated and driven into everyone's head to the point that even doctors believe it.

At a minimum, I would favor a requirement to adequately label foods (GMO, HFCS, partially hydrogenated vegetable oil, place or origin, etc). Yes, it might cost companies a bit to comply, but it would allow the people to make informed choices.

As far as banning things, I'm more concerned about who's doing it, and why. Some things deserve to be banned.

On the other hand, we've got a bunch of control freak whackos in government that want to ban CO2. If we had an honest and intelligent government, we probably wouldn't have to have these conversations.

Blue Bonnet was the one I bought with 0g transfats.

I have first hand experience with partially hydrogenated vegetable oil. Bypass surgery isn't fun. The main reason for surgery was partially hydrogenated vegetable oil. I had no idea about that stuff until it was to late. I watch the ingredient like a hawk now!

How were they able to determine that partially hydrogenated vegetable oil was the main cause for you needing surgery?

.... As far as singling out one item such as transfat.... (Even though that covers a wide area) ......Diet and nutrition does help..

I think they should single out America's "poor".

Ironically, they are some of the fattest, unhealthiest people in our population, and under the ACA, they will be the only citizens that truly have "cadillac" plans. The people on Medicaid will be treated anywhere, for anything, at any time...for free; no premiums and no deductibles.

I would suggest that food stamps only be allowed to be used for healthy foods; meat, dairy, fruit, vegetables, and whole grain bread and pasta....that's it. No cookies, soda, chips, candy, or any other unhealthy foods.

We are being forced to pay the freight for people that eat garbage and rarely leave the couch.

I think they should single out America's "poor".

Processed food are cheap be high in trans-fat as well as convenient.

One thing that really upsets me, is when these "self proclaimed, government defined, poor", is when they cry, they are so poor, the only place they can afford to eat is at McDonalds. I've felt that McDonalds is not cheap, it is only convenient.

When I went to college, I was a pretty good shopper (Because I never had money, and was on a tight budget from what I made in the summer, and the little I made during the school year), I never starved, but at times I was hungry, especially nearing the end of the school year in the spring. And I only went to McDonalds as a treat.

Well, it's still that way for me. I have some money, but my priorities don't allow eating out very often...even at McDs. I also put an effort into making healthy, but tasty meals.

If I attempted to live on what I see in the baskets of the "poor", when I'm in Walmart, I would begin feeling bad within a week, and I would be way fatter than I already am...which comes from beer.

The "feel good" social programs, have dumbed these people down to the point that all they care about is instant gratification, and, (like lab rats), they go for the easiest and tastiest food that's available.

They have lost the basic instinct of self preservation, and along with it, the ability to keep themselves somewhat healthy. It's inhumane to allow them to feed on only things that will eventually make them sick.

I took some classes at the local colleges.... one was environmental......... the had a movie we had to watch,... which I never would have watch on my own.... It was called "Super Size Me".

This documentary pretty much kill McD's Super Size me campaign.

He was a healthy guy, that ate noting but Mcd's for a month, and when they said Super Size me" he took it. His first or second day, he blew his cookies from the Super Size me. In two weeks, his doctor could not believe how his health deteriorated and recommended him to stop.

Growing up on a farm, McD's were just a treat for us kids....... maybe 2-3 times /year. Mostly from Christmas shopping.

Same here. I grew up in the middle of nowhere, McDs was a 35 mile drive, and going out to eat was something that didn't happen that often.

My favorite was A & W Rootbeer. It was about 20 miles in the opposite direction, and there was nothing cooler than getting the trays hung on the side of the car, and getting to order a burger, fries, and a rootbeer float, all at once.

Common sense should dictate that it's not a good idea to eat that stuff constantly; unfortunately, our "poor" have been stripped of common sense, and there is no financial, (or any other), incentive for them to eat healthier. They have no worries about missed work days, coming up with the deductible for a doctor's visit, etc.

Since we pay for both the food they eat, and the health issues that eating junk food leads to, I think it would be prudent to institute some controls on what they consume, that is purchased with food stamps. They are not capable of doing it themselves.

Our McD's was over 60 miles in Green Bay......

^{Before we know it we'll be comparing who has the biggest or most ugly scar.}

We did have an A&W 20 some miles away........ the only time we went there is when the bus stopped there after our "Stars of Tomorrow" ^{now known as the Babe Ruth League} Little League Games. saved and scrounged all week for that.

Your comment:

Common sense should dictate that it's not a good idea to eat that stuff constantly;

IU have to admit, My first week of college I ate (4) McD's meals.......... and my symtoms were the same as from the guy in "Super Size Me". It was not good...... I was late for one of my first classes because I was in the throne room.........

Okay Kramarat, I am now confused as to your position. You seemed initially to be against banning trans-fats. But now I am uncertain.

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Are you for or against banning trans-fats? What about HFCS?

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Perhaps it is not a matter of a simple for or against.... are you perhaps for banning trans-fats and HFCS but think it is a good idea to reward successful (not poor) people with access to these ingredients?

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On a side note, I think the pervasiveness of HFCS, trans-fats, and less healthy more processed food in general has a lot to do with American unwillingness to go to the grocery store more frequently.

Fair enough.

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If my wife's company drops their group insurance, we will be forced into the exchanges and join the growing ranks of the "working" poor, and will probably make slightly too much money to qualify for subsidies, (getting other people to pay for our insurance).

It gets depressing to see grossly overweight people, (with baskets of high priced and nutritionally devoid food), whip out their EBT cards to pay for it all. I couldn't afford to eat like that, if I wanted to.

With the ACA specifically designed to take my money, and use it to take care of the "poor", I have a vested interest in keeping them healthy.

But to what extend, If you were standing in a grocery checkout line. and the person in front of you hand their cart full of what I will call process and convenient foods but is not recommended as healthy but is approved. And when it came time for this person to pay............. would you speak up on the behalf of your vested interests, knowing that this person believes that the EBT SNAP card she/he used to pay for it, is his/hers because she/he believes they deserves this entitlement.

'....when it came time for this person to pay............. would you speak up on the behalf of your vested interests....'

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With what aims in mind, to achieve/further? What is the chance that the above action will indeed achieve/further those aims? What is the cost of the action?

To what extent would you protect your vested interest?

To put it another way.

do nothing and let it bleed your out?

Is it easy, no. from my post that you did not repost.

"... knowing that this person believes that the EBT SNAP card she/he use to pay for it, is his/hers because she/he believes they deserves this entitlement."

I don't think speaking out to the entitlement recipient in the line ahead of you will change their behavior in even 1 out of 1000 interactions.

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One of the reasons I comment on CR4 is that I often see evidence of people actually considering/integrating info in comments of others.

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There are more choices besides piss into the wind or let it bleed out.

That is why I asked to what extent would you protect you vested interest in such a case. And that was how it was put, vested interests. Which is true.

How, there is plenty of ways.

But frankly, they came up with EBT SNAP so that the recipients would not be embarrass to use them.

I myself do not think there is nothing wrong when you need public assistance. And if it does bother them, its an incentive to become self-sufficient.

While back in CA, I almost got the cops called on me one time, for doing just that, but the situation was different.

I was in a grocery line at a large Whole Foods type grocery store. The young, healthy, well dressed woman in front of me bought a couple hundred bucks worth of lobster and steaks from organically fed beef, and pulled out a wad of the paper food stamps to pay for it. I went ballistic.

I managed to bite my tongue and shut up after the store manager was called...and the woman left the store and climbed into a late model Volvo that was parked right out front. I had seen her get out of the car on my way into the store. A car that will always be beyond my means. She was an obvious fraud.

In regard to the "poor"...no; I would have no business talking to them in the grocery line about their purchases. My responsibility would lie in supporting and voting for, people that have a genuine interest in cleaning up the unsustainable mess that has been created.

That's just it, the SNAP card is theirs period.

But I heard on the news that they are attempting to crack down on fraud....... they busted a liquor store for being a party for this food stamp fraud.

But now we are getting off topic.

for the longest of time...... I have heard people complain while they were in-line and the people in front of them would pay for their items with food stamps.

Back then, it was the higher priced items, like you stated.... and the food stamps enabled them to use what little disposable money to purchase extra.

As opposed to now, process foods are cheaper, you get more bulk for the dollar. but the ones that really truly rely on it, you can tell.

they will purchase food that they have to make or prepare, because it stretches their budget. Very little process foods in their shopping carts. (My definition of process foods, would be canned spaghetti and such.)

I buy and cook in bulk whenever possible, and use my chest freezer for storage.

These things are not out of reach for the "poor", who typically have AC, cars, cell phones, and flat screen TVs.

Yesterday I made about 30 lbs of minestrone soup. It cost about $35 for the ingredients, and it's low fat, healthy, and delicious.

I'll eat processed foods once in awhile...frozen pizza, etc., but most of it is gross.

wow, when I went to college..... I would buy (when I had the money) the family pack of pork chops, potatoes and vegetables....... make it up as tv style dinners for at home.

I did eat at the schools cafeteria. A lot though. Breakfast there for (2) Eggs, toast and bacon or sausage was something like it was either $0.99 or $1.99, and a hamburger boat (Hamburger and fries) was a little more.....

It was pretty cheap, and it wasn't subsidized either, at the time, it was an expense.

Now, I eat at the hospital cafeteria near us. where a home cooked meals like Sauerkraut and ribs and vegetables with a drink and desert is about $5.00-$6.00.

This is what they are serving today. ^{Meatloaf..... I made that at home last week}

Here's a menu calender. ^{Select Aurora Baycare Medical Center. (First one) Probably should list this under commercial}

Portions are pretty good size. And they vary, bigger guy, gets more that will fill me up, my girl friend get's less. both of us never leave hungry when we're done.

That's a good deal!

...and they probably accept EBT cards.

There is an old quote that goes something like....

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"From overbearing oppression springs tremendous yearning to be free,

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yearning to be free initiates true revolution,

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true revolution releases great freedom

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great freedom induces widespread prosperity

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widespread prosperity accumulates enormous wealth

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enormous wealth breeds complacency

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complacency invites apathy

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apathy insists upon dependency

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dependency inevitably returns everything full circle to overbearing oppression ...'

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If there is any truth to this pattern, the good news is that we are only a couple steps away from returning to prosperity. The bad news is that I doubt we have experienced anything near the peak of oppression this time around....and the carnage of revolution is likely to be so high as to discourage it for many decades.

I disagree with were we are.

I believe we are in the direction of the last few steps.....

As far as carnage of revolution........... the discouragement does not put it off for decades......... but about 235 years....

And the revolution is not so much revolution, but a modern day version reset of our original revolution 237 years ago.

No, we agree on where we are... last few steps.

I was editing it but my time ran out.....

Perfect reply kramarat, I had to rate your reply as a good answer. The part that really resonated with me was when you said "created by a political party, in order to secure votes, and they lack the critical thinking skills that lead to good decisions". Although i would have started it with ...

Many of our "lesser educated" people are intentionally kept that way by a political party, in order to secure votes and manipulate them with political rhetoric, ...

(as it is not just some poor who lack critical thinking skills, even college educated and rich people buy into the political rhetoric, guess they chose not to think about what they are saying.)

Example:

''Carbon dioxide is portrayed as harmful. But there isn't even one study that can be produced that shows that carbon dioxide is a harmful gas.''

-Rep. Michelle Bachmann, April, 2009

Need another example of a rich 'educated' person not using their critical thinking skills...

''We're not going to give up on destroying the health care system for the American people.''

-Rep. Paul Ryan, March 12, 2013

Highly educated example ...

''I even accept for the sake of argument that sexual orgies eliminate social tensions and ought to be encouraged.''

-Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia

Alright one more, this could have been the leader of the nation and world ...

''When you have a fire in an aircraft, there's no place to go, exactly, there's no -- and you can't find any oxygen from outside the aircraft to get in the aircraft, because the windows don't open. I don't know why they don't do that. It's a real problem.''

-Mitt Romney, suggesting it would be a good idea to crack a window in a pressurized cabin at 35,000 feet with 500-mile-an-hour winds (Beverly Hills fundraiser, Sept. 22, 2012)

''I am not worried about the deficit. It is big enough to take care of itself.''

-President Ronald Reagan

''Facts are stupid things.''

-Ronald Reagan, at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, ''Facts are stubborn things''

Thanks to about.com for the quotes.

Those who do have critical thinking skills are less likely to vote for a candidate or political party that goes against their own best interest. (Like cutting spending to help with their own education, or cutting investments in their country's and children's future)

Those with critical thinking skills are more likely to look at root cause and/or bigger picture. Why would companies use trans-fat in the first place when they know it will shorten the life of their customer, who then will have less years to purchase from them. Why, companies where focusing too much on short term profits, and not enough on long term sustainability. Knowingly making a product in a way to shorten customers life span, transfer short term profits into their pockets from the tax payer and healthcare system, instead of doing what is best for the customer and the country that allows them to operate, is short sided from a critical thinking perspective.

But sooner or later, the people (via the ones we pay to protect our individual interest, the FDA) have to step in and stop those who chose short term profits over the well being of our citizens. Why, because many of our citizens lack the education and/or environment to make the right choice to do what is in their own best interest.

Void of any entity to look out for the unknowing individual's best interest, you could have something like China's people have to endure, pollution so thick you can't see down the block. Or see a country's healthcare cost spiral out of control as all the baby boomers get diabetes there by transferring their lifetime accumulated wealth and more of our tax dollars (the earnings of many), to a few healthcare companies, doctors and drug company's pockets.

Just like with a complex manufacturing system, a complex free market system must have control, regulation and have fail-safes to idiot proof it. There will be operator errors, as we are only human, so with in reason, there must be protections in place to protect us from making catastrophic mistakes. Especially when we we wont learn of the life changing mistake for decades.

A few years ago I watched my dad suffer a slow and agonizing death from diabetes, heart problems, both from bad eating decisions, then all the drugs caused kidney failure. He was a cook in the Navy all his life, and overweight. Like me, he was un-materialistic, but had one dream; to pay off his house so his kids (my step sister) could inherit it. But the house went to pay for hospital, drugs and doctor. They got his house and dream, not my sister.

Before all the fast food and artificial flavoring, dyes, trans-fats designed to increase company profits at the sacrifice of citizens, parents would pass on their life's savings, house etc. to kids. In that way families would acquire wealth, work into or out of middle class over generations. Now for most, their life savings are "spent down" paying healthcare bills, so the companies get their life savings, not the family. Now day it seems only the upper class can afford health care in the end years and still have something left to pass on to their loved ones.

Can you narrow all of that down to a point?

I don't want to guess at your point, and post an inappropriate response.

The problems with encouraging additional regulation attempting to create 'fail-safes to idiot proof' markets, are not trivial.

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The two biggest problems with this line of thinking are:

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1. The people who ultimately create the additional regulation are usually not skilled at creating beneficial regulation. The typical outcome is a distortion away from a fair market, without compensating benefits.

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2. Markets should not be 'idiot-proofed'. Markets are among other things a competition of ideas, and the bad ideas are supposed to lose, not rely on fail-safes. Not only does this once again lead to inefficient pricing and market distortions, but it also suggests to people that they need not do their own due dilligence, because they are being looked after by protective legislation.

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Companies sell fast food, trans fats, artificial coloring, HFCS, etc, because consumers buy it preferably over other similar cost combinations. Long shelf life, stable color, resistance to becoming greasy in appearance, appealing aroma, smooth mouth feel, etc. are the identified draws that keep these ingredients prominent. If consumers refused to buy it, or even truly showed other preferences, these would not be so prevalent.

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There must come a time at the end of a responsible adults life when they weigh the price of extending their life a few more months against their desire to pass an inheritance or charitable gift. Even extremely wealthy people could feasible be drained of much of their wealth with a severe chronic disease, given the number of very high cost treatment options often available, if they set no limit on the price they would pay for additional increments of time.

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People simply need to start asking themselves whether the possibility of another week spend debilitated in the presence of their loved ones is a good trade instead of giving someone their paid off house for life.

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By the way, I would not consider Michelle Bachmann a well or highly educated person. Merely attending classes and getting a diploma is not sufficient to qualify as educated. Apparently, for her, education did not stick.

"... and they lack the critical thinking skills that lead to good decisions."

That can be a result of a number of factors. Critical thinking in this instance rests to some degree on scientific thinking/analysis as much as common sense. It seems common sense to those of us who have that built-in from prior, successful, education in those subjects (science and math, primarily).

Also, nutritional science isn't required in all secondary educational curricula. Then there's the typical student attitude about many subjects -- that they don't need to pay attention. Just do whatever is necessary to get pass the class and get the credit -- even if it means cheating.

THEN, on top of that is the addictive nature of processed foods that compounds the effort at reforming one's taste buds.

A huge part of effective health care reform is individuals taking responsibility for their own health. This is the best way to curb increasing health care costs. Nutritional science is mandatory for that to be as effective as it can be. It's an uphill struggle, too, because, while there is quite a bit of nutritional science, a thorough understanding of the role of different nutrients and bodily processes is not complete. But it is better to start somewhere. Water-soluble nutrients are the easiest to experiment with, although, with a basic understanding, fat-soluble nutrients are safe, too.

Most of us never had a nutrition class/course in our educational careers. What little I've learned has been through self-study. How many people even have an interest in pursuing the topic? Or understand its importance to health and degenerative diseases, as well as cancer?

The list of questions I was asked was negative until the question about family history cam up. I had no idea what might have caused the problem until I was introduced to Partially Hydrogenated oils in all kinds of products on the grocers shelf. Even peanut butter (which I love to eat) has some in it. My system does not handle hydrogenated oils well. After some tests, that was determined to be the major contributor.

Its the Emulsifiers in the Peanut butter that are hydrogenated ....... if you get the natural Peanut Butter, these don't have it....... But you'll have to mix it up before you use it, because the oil separates on top of the Peanut Butter,

Yes. I have a fair amount of knowledge about the subject now. It was almost to late just before the bypass operation 6 years ago. Thanks for the info. . I've also noted some off the cuff remarks about the subject today. This is NOT a subject to play with. There are quite a few people with a long scar on their chest who can attest to this. The main problem is the gradual closing of arteries leading to your heart that will be your demise if you aren't careful and lucky enough to catch the problem first.

You are right; the seriousness of the subject should not downplayed.

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Coronary thrombosis, leading to a heart attack is one of the most common results. Quick death from a heart attack is not the worst prospect though.

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Another common result is carotid artery stenosis, leading to transient ischemic attacks and full blown strokes. People should take the fact that they might not just quickly expire as a result of increased risk factors like smoking, harmful cholesterol ratios, intake of bad fats and poorly managed diabetes. There is a risk that you end up in the hospital with large parts of your brain dead, quickly depleting family of happiness and money.

I'm no nutritional expert, or even a health nut, but it's become pretty easy to eat good tasting food that's not as bad for you. I guess I'm lucky, in that I don't really like fat...not beyond a little.

I make tacos out of ground turkey. Turkey bacon is good too. Garlic bread is just as good with olive oil. There are a bunch of little things that are as good or better than the fat laden stuff.

If my wife didn't bake, we'd use almost no butter.

Trans-fat will become a thing of the past, with or without a ban. All a ban will do is force people into eating certain things that taste like crap, until a viable substitute is found. Every company in the business knows full well that a trans-fat substitute is worth tons of money. I'm sure they're working on it.

I think everyone should consume "bad" fat, sparingly.

I still don't like the idea of an outright ban. Speaking of peanut butter...many people have a severe reaction to peanuts, up to and including death.

I really don't care if it's the FDA, EPA, DHS, or any other department or agency; unelected bureaucrats should never, ever, be able to institute and enforce laws...which is what bans and mandates are.

On a tangent,........ there are different Types of fat in your body,...... and at one time they called brown fat was the worst, but now they are thinking it has some good quality.

The are still learning........... But it will come down to, moderation.

Studies show that, it is in our genes to over consume on fats and sugars, just for survival and after tens of thousands of years of doing this, its hard to get that out of our programming.

But you can still get trans-fat at Walmart right???????

CR4 ADMIN - objectional photo edited

From the CR4 Rules: Photos and images containing nudity or the suggestion thereof, foul language, or any other material that violates the CR4 Rules will be removed. Final judgment about what constitutes "foul, vulgar or unsavory" belongs to the CR4 moderation team.

^{I could have done without the graphics.......}

Ya think?

Yikes!

I wonder how they come up with the supposed "fact" that trans-fat kills 7000 people per year?

If I did my math right, that means that trans-fat kills 2 people per year, per 100,000 in population, based on a population of 350 million. Average life expectancy in the US is 79 years old.

I have to see a death certificate stating Cause-of-Death:TRANSFATS, before I believe such crud. Where I live a certain brand of margarine is advertised to be 'good' for your health (better than the others brands) and is even endorsed by the heart foundation.

Monsanto's name comes up yet again, so there must be a profit in this somewhere....I guess we can look forward to GM, 3D- printed butter using stock from cloned calves...

I think they ran out of red.........

Whoever edited the photo, doesn't shop at Walmart.

Hell, they took out the one part that was worth looking at...if I was trapped on Mars with no food, water or oxygen.

I've never been a moderator....let me try my hand at editing.

Howz that?

This was a picture of Rhonda, just two years ago...before she entered the seedy world of trans-fats.

Actually Ronda's real name is Ron, and Ron's day job is working at the docks as a long shoreman.

Jackhammer operator would have been better.

It was late, and my imagination was broken,,,,,,,,,,

It took 30 years for them to find this out after saying all the good stuff like butter was bad for you. And what they replace it with margarine wasn't any better.

I wonder how long until they find a problem with GMO's.

Oh well live and learn. At least some of us do!

Isn't "former Monsanto chief counsel, and current Czar of food safety" an oxymoron?

One would think.

I can assure you that there will never be a problem with glyphosate in food, or high fructose corn syrup in everything.

Hey cigs are a valuable contributor to our country: "a piece of the agriculture community … that contributes a lot to this country."

A statement by:

Sen. Richard Burr (R-N.C.), who opposed the amendment, said if Feinstein's goal was to punish the tobacco industry, then she should instead offer an amendment making tobacco illegal.

"The only thing this agricultural commodity asks is let us participate in the federal crop insurance program," Burr said ahead of the vote. "Don't do this to a piece of the agriculture community … that contributes a lot to this country."

From: Senate rejects amendment to end tobacco farm subsidies | TheHill

Farm subsidies should all be ended. The government has no business using taxpayer money to manipulate markets....markets that our nice representatives are probably invested in, I might add.

They are able to directly influence commodity futures.

How many lawmakers do you think knew about this ban months ago, and adjusted their investment portfolios accordingly?

I would put my money into companies that had promising alternatives to trans-fat, and wait for the money to come.

...and we keep voting them more and more power. Man we're dumb.

Yea, verily for they shall reap what they sow.

Sow subsidies, reap "campaign" contributions.

Farm subsidies will go away when bribing politicians becomes really illegal.

That'll happen about the same time Congress outlaws their automatic, yearly pay raises, fringe benefits of $82,000.00 USD/year, free parking, earmarks, their incestuous relationships with lobbyists, and more: Senate rejects amendment to end tobacco farm subsidies | TheHill

The Senate is considering a $955 billion five-year farm bill.

The math is getting confusing.

$995,000,000,000 /$1,000,000= 995,000

Heck, they could cancel that one program and create almost a million millionaires. Wow!

Incorrect. Take another guess.

Pubs control the house.

Never mind.

They're all guilty!

'....Farm subsidies should all be ended. The government has no business using taxpayer money to manipulate markets.....'

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Farm subsidies aren't even the tip of the iceberg. The very foundation of the pricing system is beyond being merely manipulated, it is controlled outright.

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If you look at something like the world silver market, song and dance, slide of hand, market, you may notice that contracts/derivatives generally far exceed yearly production, and that far from being the roughly 50/50 split of bullish/bearish, trends are overwhelmingly bearish, unquestionably preventing any significant price increase. It is also notable that just 2 banks control the overwhelming majority of these instruments.

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It isn't limited to silver. The size of the market dictates the level of control.

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To what end you might ask? The world silver market is traded in US dollars, and might just as fairly be called the Inverse US Dollar market, or the 'how much silver will you give me for a dollar' market.

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....and since the US dollar is based upon...well nothing tangible, keeping any value in the buck requires keeping the amount of goods that a dollar will buy inflated using derivatives.

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Of course, that should strike anyone who believes in the value of even semi-free markets as distasteful, disingenuous, and downright dangerous.

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Freedom in high liquidity, US dollar denominated (are there any which aren't) markets is a four leaf unicorn.

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All the US government's business is using US tax dollars to distort/manipulate markets that are working hard to maintain the illusion of freedom.

I know. And while I'm not an economist, I don't see any possible way that this can be sustained.

Not a lot of good news on this site, but they do a good job of explaining things in terms that I can understand. It's just scary as hell.

http://www.zerohedge.com/

Wow! Thank you, Kramarat, for cluing me into zerohedge. There looks to be sizable collection of worthwhile reading.

Huge amounts; all very well thought out and written by people that know their stuff. They don't do "chicken little" warnings.

Democrats or republicans are smart enough not to mess with Tobacco. The tax brings in a lot of revenues...... It's costs just over a penny a cigarette ........ The rest is tax. So Burr, realize that no politician will cut off there nose in spite of their face

Yep. Tobacco and booze.

I don't see this trans-fat ban as being necessary either. The bad press alone, has brought it's use way down. It's the Bloomberg model, going national.

I think genetics plays a role too. I'll bet most people on this forum remember the big cans of Crisco shortening from the old days...it was used in almost everything; and yet, I had relatives that lived well past 100. They probably ate a lot of bacon and butter too.

I'll bet most people on this forum remember the big cans of Crisco shortening from the old days.

some people also may remember bacon grease sandwiches......

I was pretty small at the time, but I think my mom used to make cake frosting out of Crisco shortening..... Anyways, it was the best white frosting on chocolate cake..

I'm pretty sure my Mother used Crisco so often, that the tub just stayed on the kitchen counter.

Damn...you know what just occurred to me?

What's gonna happen to Oreo cookies???!!!!

Do they still make Hydrox Cookies?

I found out what Hydrox meant about 25 years ago……. hydrogenated fats, but on the link it says it means Water and Oxygen......

It looks like Hydrox is gone, and Oreo removed trans-fat in 2006.

This is just a teaser.

Under the ACA, individual wellness plans will be implemented, with the government determining what type of behavior modification each individual will have to go through to avoid hefty premiums.

As we know, America's poor are the most unhealthy and obese, but they will not be affected, since their healthcare will be covered under Medicaid.

Things like diet, smoking, alcohol consumption, exercise, etc., will all play a factor for those of us that work and can afford to pay into the system.

http://www.hrmorning.com/employers-wont-like-wellness-rules-under-obamacare/

I suspect that most company plans will be eliminated during the 1 year extension.

Live and Let Fry.

One of my favourite TV shows, "American Dad", recently had an episode where transfats were declared illegal, cross border smuggling of transfats using boy scout mules ensued. .......it was funny.

I never realised, UNTIL NOW, that it was actually lampooning a real current issue in the US.

You Americans are a strange lot.

Not really. Some of us just need to be told what to do, and how to live...so they vote for people that promise to keep them safe.

This is pretty funny:

http://twitchy.com/2013/11/07/going-to-eat-whatever-the-fck-i-want-hey-fda-you-can-pry-the-trans-fats-from-our-clogged-dead-arteries/

I don't think I consume any transfats.

I consume: Pork fat, chicken fat, cow fat, fish fat, duck fat, coconut cream, olive oil, generic cooking oils. I haven't seen any solidified vegetable oils here unless margarine is a transfat too.

Yes. Margarine is a biggie; along with some brands of microwave popcorn.

http://gma.yahoo.com/5-foods-still-contain-trans-fats-045642100--abc-news-topstories.html

I'm sure from the outside looking in, we look like a country of people that are scared of almost everything.

I don't eat much trans-fat, but I will consider it an act of war if they ever try to take away cheese.

The secret to avoiding clogged arteries from trans-fat, is to use alcohol as a blood thinner...with moderate daily doses.

Yes a bevvy a day......I have to abstain for 5 more days till I've finished these pills the Dr just gave me. I hope I don't block up waiting.

I'll just give myself a good flush once the pills are finished.

Great minds think alike! That's what I would do.

All of this, and the FDA could have just passed a law that requires daily alcohol intake.

This may even anger the biggest supporters of nanny state government.

"Jabba the Hut" ........ that reminds me, Disney says that Star Wars 7 will be out in 2016

I just checked my larder.

The margarine had 0g transfat listed on the label. Milk also 0g transfat listed. Cheese label just listed fat with no breakdown by type of fat.

The only thing I found with transfat was some Betty Crocker cake icing. Better finish it soon. Hope I don't OD on it.

The only other labelled thing I checked was the instant noodles but the ingredients were written in Thai so couldn't tell.

The eggs weren't labelled.

The margarine had 0g trans fat listed on the label

I don't look at the value of Trans Fat on the label. If the serving size contains less than 0.5 grams of Trans Fat (or anything for that matter) the maker can round it down to 0 grams. Manufacturers sometimes create ridiculously small serving sizes to make the numbers on the label appealing. I mean who only eats just one pop tart....or even just one package (containing two pop tarts)....and hey, once you've eaten one package, you might as well eat the other two packages, right?

Instead, look at the ingredients to see if Partially Hydrogenated Vegetable Oil is listed as that is what trans fat is.

Cheese and milk do not need to have trans fat added to make them taste good or make the texture more appealing.

Land O Lakes is the worst, at 5 grams per serving.

It was owned by Ralston Purina, which was aquired by Nestle.

I like that Wiki invest site. Probably a coincidence, but there was a substantial drop starting early yesterday morning. The rebound is odd looking too.

http://www.wikinvest.com/wiki/Nestle

I just checked my larder.

No, it's to obvious to crack on.

Fat, of any sort, is cheap. They may want to sell the main product, but residual fat must be sold.

'Cheap' is a relative term. It isn't very descriptive unless it is made clear to what specifically it is being compared.

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Lambda brand olive oil is not cheap compared to other food sources of calories. Unesu at a bulk wholesale price of roughly $30/kg, is not cheap by most food calorie standards. Avocado, walnut, and hummingbird oils are similarly not cheap by most food calorie standards.

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There are also numerous oils that are sold that are not 'residual fat'. Sometimes the oil is the primary product. You don't see much hummingbird meat on the market, do you?