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Steam and IC Engines

07/04/2007 12:36 AM

Hello out there,

Has anybody tried out this? Running IC engine with Steam? A 2 stroke especially?

R. GANAPATHI RAO

INDIA.

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#1

Re: Steam and IC Engines

07/04/2007 2:21 AM

No. I don't have a natural supply of steam available and did not even give it a thought.

IC engines rely on a compression and a power stroke to operate, during this period all the valves are closed and applying steam would not help.

It is however possible for steam to be applied at the end of the stroke when the valves do open or in the spare cleaning stroke in the 4 stroke. but the output would be low.

It may be possible to convert an IC to steam by changing the cam and timing. (with a lot of other things)

If this design renders greater efficiency it should be investigated.

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#2

Re: Steam and IC Engines

07/05/2007 12:33 AM

Well, yes, I have actually been considering changing a 4 stroke IC engine to use steam. I plan on just doubling the speed of the camshaft so that the exhaust valve opens on the pistopn upstroke, closes at TDC or thereabouts, and the intake opens then and lets full pressure steam into the cylinder until it reaches the bottom of the stroke. Where it closes and the exhaust opens again. This would be a total waste system. For my steam supply I was/am going to heat water in a pressure tank and let it expand to steam on opening of a supply valve. This valve then becomes the throttle. More open, more power, less and you get less power. The engine is planned to go into a stream liner for high speeds at Bonneville Salt Flats in Utah. I am planning proof of concept using a small 4 cylinder engine to convert. Then migrate to a large bore v8. If I can run it at 300 psig steam pressure that will more than quadruple the power of a normally aspirated motor. (1 power stroke per cylinder per revolution instead of 2, and the 300 psig is about double the BMEP of a normally aspirated motor). Unfortunately I have not been able to invest much time as I have been getting my normal Bonneville race car ready...

Yes, certainly doable. With a 2 stroke as we normally think of 2 strokes with ported cylinders, etc I don't know.. But for sure a 4 stroke...

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#3

Re: Steam and IC Engines

07/05/2007 1:06 AM

It has been done using the regrind of the cam and maintaining existing cam gearing 1 : 2 with the crankshaft. To get better efficiency, waste steam pressure is re-directed via an external rotary valves system to feed other cylinders in firing type order. IE: it is a 4 stroke engine principal. It was demonstrated at Townsville, Queensland Australia back in 1988. I do not know what happened to the Ford 6 cylinder IC engineer or the developer. The Institute of Engineers, Australia held the Bi Centenial Working Model Competition.

I still have my design from that competition which I also have never had the opportunity to progress with. It is also an instant steam engine (Compressor & turbines) & Gearbox take-off developing a computer estimated >3000 SHP at 32,384rpm and weighing in at < 40kilograms. But to proceed takes a lot of cash and time which has always eluded me.

I hope this helps.

Les

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#4

Re: Steam and IC Engines

07/05/2007 3:29 AM

There is the potential to run a modified diesel engine on diesel-and-water using a 6-stroke cycle. "Suck, squeeze, bang, blow" of the 4-stroke cycle is modified by "squirt, chuff" with water for the fifth and sixth. The entry in Wikipaedia gives more details. Much greater fuel economy and reduced equipment on the cooling circuit are among the advantages claimed, though there is the added complexity of filling a second tank with water when filling the first tank with fuel, and the need to keep the water tank from freezing.

Developments look promising, though patents can sometimes limit the commercial development of such a thing.

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#5

Re: Steam and IC Engines

07/05/2007 3:58 AM

It has been tried but there are some issues:

Steam will enter the crankcase and condensate/mix with the oil. Steam engines have a zone where the leaking steam is vented and prevented from mixing with the oil. The lubricating capacity of the oil is lost/changing with the amount of water in the mixture.

The engine cylinder lining is not made steam corrosion resistant.

Oiled pressurised air is often used as power source, the engines that can handle this exist. Check their price and the cost of changing the IC engine. (adapting/making a camshaft is not done with a hammer and a screwdriver)

To do it you need to reorganise the valve opening schedule as you need to open the inlet valve while going down and have the outlet opened while going up. In a two stroke engine the valves are only opened during a short period of the cycle. There is also an overlap.

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: Steam and IC Engines

07/05/2007 10:52 AM

Exactly what I was thinking.......ever hear of rust? I imagine you would have to replace everything with stainless or at least get it chromed.

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#7

Re: Steam and IC Engines

07/05/2007 11:19 AM

There was an experiement using a rotary engine where they injected a drop of water and I believe used hydrogen to heat the droplet to steam to expand it 1800 times its original size.

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#9
In reply to #7

Re: Steam and IC Engines

07/06/2007 2:16 AM

Hi sternk13

Could you please give some more information. I have been working on this for a long time (hobby). I was surprised that nobody was chasing down that path. Very interesting.

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#10
In reply to #7

Re: Steam and IC Engines

10/23/2007 2:02 AM

MORE DETAILS PLEASE. OR AT LEAST AN URL

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#8

Re: Steam and IC Engines

07/05/2007 4:29 PM

A two stroke IC engine can be modified to run on steam by replacing the spark plug with a ball type plunger operated valve. The valve is operated (opened) with a plunger mounted on top of the piston. As the piston nears TDC (top dead center) the plunger enters the valve lifting the ball allowing steam to enter the (former)combustion chamber. As the piston descends to plunger returns the ball to it's seat shutting off the steam supply. The steam exits through the exhaust ports as in normal IC operation.

This type of motor can be purchased at most any model shop. It is powered by CO2 rather than steam.

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