Finding The Right Oil For Fine Mechanisms

Hi Andy,

Synthetic oils are manufactured from a specific base stock to yield a narrow range (or cut) of hydrocarbon types. Due to the chemical reactions in the synthesis, the manufacturer can target certain specific molecules that will predominate, giving a very pure product. Typical oils on the other hand, are blended from crude oil fractions that are anything distilling within a certain temperature range. This results in a wide distribution of products (a dodecane molecule could have dozens of different structures, most of which will distill within the same range but may have different viscosities etc.) that may include some lower molecular weight carboxylic acids, alcohols etc., as well as molecules that are prone to oxidation or polymerization to form acids or gums. This is on top of any additives that may break down to form acids with excessive heat or moisture.

So a synthetic oil is more likely to be free of acidic or varnish forming components than a crude base stock, but the additives have to be considered as well.

Good post, thanks.

Do you think I can safely use them on such machines or not?

May sound dumb, but I don't know! What sort of working conditions does a sewing machine generate for the lubricants- is there any moisture, specific areas of high pressure loading etc.? This is where the additive package often comes in to make a specific oil formulation suitable for a given use.

Having said that, a synthetic based oil of the correct viscosity should perform at least as well as an equivalent petroleum based oil, and will be more resistant to varnish and sludge formation. So if I had a choice, I'd use it.

You and me both!!

You are answering the question I posted, many others are simply not answering it but going off on a tangent.....

The recommended oils cost about the same for a few spoonfuls as does a pint of quality synthetic oil, a vast difference in price, but I do believe that the synthetic is at least as good!!!

Thanks for your thoughts.....

I'd be surprised if full synthetic oil caused a problem for the gum or acid reasons, but don't know for sure. In UK it's common to use 3-IN-ONE oil for delicate things like sewing machines. I think it's a bit less viscous even than 5W-30 engine oil. That could be the way to go, you won't be getting through vast amounts of it!

Having said that I doubt that engine oil would give a problem. If I remember right, 3-IN-ONE or other thin oil is recommended for pushbikes, but I use engine oil on mine and it's OK, probably better as it sticks around longer.

BTW I use part-synthetic in my car and it's good, 170000 miles, runs fine and uses no oil, though I do drive with the utmost circumcision, as Arthur Daley would say!

Lovely post, made me laugh!

I have been using full synthetic since the 80s and some of the engines went to more than 400,000 Kms, before being sold in a fully working condition.....

Never had an engine on Synthetic fail me.....

Biggest problem is that engines on Synthetic take far longer to run in and achieve the least oil consumption, my present Diesel engine has almost 200,000 Kms on the clock and the oil consumption is now as good as nothing......the first 12,000 Kms are the worst of course....

Oil with least viscous and transparent oils would do Andy.

I disagree, I need them to definitely NOT to have those two components as well.....over long periods the gum will leach out and become "sticky" for example.

I have no idea what the acid will actually do, but corrosion springs to mind....

Maybe an oil specialist here can tell us?

I did find this, which more than makes me VERY wary to use an oil either with varnish or acid or both! It makes VERY interesting reading!!

oil-analysis-varnish

Acids only form when water or moisture is present. Water is always acid forming. If your system is water or moisture free, organic or synthetic acids will be avoidable.

They are part of the way many oils are made, Old Salt posted a link explaining that.....

In general, synthetic oils are formulated to perform in extreme conditions, such as internal combustion engines and other high temperature and pressure environments. This is hardly the environment of a sewing machine or similar precision mechanism. There are many lubricants available specifically for this type of application that were developed for the machine manufacturers.

For example, for my precision instruments that I used in my trade, I always used a Precision Instrument Oil from LS Starrett Co. and my x-wife always used oil from Singer for her sewing machines.

I really want to find out about car synthetic oils, I already know about the usual oils that they sell in tiny amounts for outrageous prices, but thanks anyway!!

Some of the auto oil additives may be good. I tested a product named Prolong some years ago, which turned out to be way better than expected. The raw solution comes in small quantities and a variety of fit-for-purpose containers, which makes it ideal for use on inter alia door hinges, sewing machines etc... I wanted to apply some to a mechanical watch that I owned, but desisted. Then the watch packed up anyway...

As I understand it, you are objecting to paying a high price for the mall quantity of the right oil for the job. There is an implicit assumption that somewhere out there is another oil available in larger quantities for some other purpose which happens to be just right for sewing machines. have you thought of comparing viscosities? According to

http://www.mobil.com/China-English/Lubes/PDS/APXXENINDMOMobil_Velocite_SM_Series.aspx

their sewing machine oils have ISO viscosities of between 10 and 22. On the other hand, according to

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/iso-grade-oil-d_1207.html

an SAE 10W oil has an ISO viscosity of 32. Unless you are into lubricating fine machinery on the Heath Robinson (UK)/Rube Goldberg (US) scale there is no point in buying anything other than the small amounts of oil you require.

Firstly, I was not simply trying to save money, I was also trying to find something better, though I may not have worded it so clearly.

I was happy to read your post, as it covered a point that I was unaware of, though the links you posted (do learn how to make them active, its very easy!), did not deliver my question for a 0 SAE motor oil and its comparative ISO value.

I looked around on the web and found this diagram, which appears to show that a 0 SAE motor oil in right in the middle of where machine oil needs to be;- (I hope it remains readable, but if not, I will post the link below)

viscosity-chart

So I do feel, that a quality fully synthetic motor oil of 0 or 5 SAE will be perfectly usable in fine quality mechanical assemblies. Exactly as expected.

Saving both cost and improving lubrication. Exactly as expected.

Many thanks to all who have already posted and any more that post later, I can only say it was a great pleasure to real ALL comments and help.

Suit yourself, Andy. If you know better than Mobil what the specification of a sewing machine oil should be, then by all means try SAE 0 oil. You know better than I how to refer to internet searches so you can help the rest of us with where you can find SAE 0 single-grade oil. SAE 0W oils may not be quite right unless you operate your sewing machines under freezing conditions.

The special sewing machine oils are all around 0 to 5 SAE. So whats the beef?

There is no suggestion that the machines must be in freezing conditions (except from you) to work using ANY of the special oils for such machines?

You are confusing yourself with the requirements for certain IC engines......left outside in all conditions........a thin oil in freezing conditions reaches the parts other thick oils don't!!Faster!!

Few (if any!) knitting or sewing machines will be used under such conditions that you mention, but STILL need a light (thin?) oil for optimal lubrication.

If you re-read my original post, I mentioned that certain components are NOT required for such machines, that is a fairly wide ranging requirement, that many manufacturers agree with.

That the oil must be free running at normal temperatures is another requirement (that I did not mention exactly) and an oil with a zero SAE viscosity, is then just about perfect!!

You should brush up on your oil knowledge, this blog is a good start with a lot of REALLY good information....

Have a great day.

So what is wrong with Mobil sewing machine oil, available in industrial quantities if you prefer?

Nothing as far as I am aware.

You appear to be misreading what I wrote (guessing!), be a little more detailed and I will try and answer you better...

The beef, Andy, is that you do not set the parameters of your question clearly, and that you do not understand the answers. Your original post states only that you fancy using a different oil from the recommended ones. You have at that stage not approached the manufacturers of sewing machine oil to find out why they make their product the way they do. Instead you start wondering aloud about the use of a different oil intended for completely different working conditions.

It took until post #31 to reveal that you were unaware of the viscosity as a vital parameter for lubricants for a particular job.

It then took post #38 to show that you had not appreciated the difference between SAE 0 and SAE 0W specifications. The W refers to testing the viscosity at freezing point, but all single grade oils lower their viscosities at increasing temperatures, so may be too thin at room temperature. Conversely the SAE designations without the W refer to testing at 100°C, so SAE 0 oil could be too thick at sewing machine temperatures.

It was not until post #34 that you revealed the quantities involved.

So why have you yet to approach the manufacturers of sewing machine oil?

Wrong

Wrong

Wrong

Partially right

Wrong

Wrong

and

Wrong!!

You are onto a winner if negative results are what you wanted!!!

So your "best" idea, if I may rephrase it slightly is the following scenario:-

-----------------------------------------------

"Hallo Mr Sewing machine oil maker/seller, I am looking for a cheap substitute for your overpriced oil, can you help me find one?"

"WHAT! YOU SAID NO, WHY?"

----------------------------------------------

All I can say to your post is that I recommend you read future posts slowly through before posting.....

OH!! YOU DID JUST THAT!! WOW!!REALLY!!!

Dear me. Standing there shouting "wrong" all the time doesn't help your position in a logical debate; it's really a bit naive. Almost as naive as the letter, which, by the way, does not go to the sewing machine manufacturer but to Mobil.
Allow me to offer you a better specimen letter:
Dear sir/madam,
as I am a user of considerable amounts of your esteemed sewing machine oil, I wonder if you can quote a source and an end-user price for 1litre/5 litre/10 litre units. At the same time I would be interested to know whether you have considered developing a fully synthetic oil for this purpose. Yours etc

Dear darling phph001:-

You simply didn't understand my post at all....how sad for you!

Just try the following "FIX":-

Just look deeply into your own eyes in a mirror and say "WANKER" to yourself 12 times.

Its a magic spell for complete idiots who simply have no idea what they are talking about!

It probably cannot help you in the slightest with your life, its obviously far too screwed up already it would seem from the appalling quality of your comments here, and their built in crass unfriendliness....

But the mere thought of you maybe actually doing it has MADE MY DAY!!! BIG TIME!!!

THANKS!!

PS. You don't REALLY need to do it, not really!!! Its simply the "thought that counts", don't you agree?

I fine-tuned my search and found stuff I never knew about...gels, oils etc..seem to be synthetic ...see here:

https://www.durex.com/en-lat/products/lubes/pages/playclassic.aspx

Ideal for you if you're trying a lube for the first time…or if you're a frequent user.. ...... It's not sticky or greasy, ...

[Turns out I didn't know toomuch about tribology after all]

Andy,

You might look into oil used for clocks, as it has many of the properties you seek.

Sounds like clipper oil might fit the bill as well.

Nice thought, but the reason I am looking at car synthetic oils is that in comparison to such oils as you (and others here have) mention, is to:-

a) improve lubrication

b) reduce costs

3) Simply Modernise the maintenance of such high quality mechanisms.

These expensive oils that you mention, sold in small volumes are surely not needed anymore I feel and of the answers already received addressing my question more directly, that would appear to be the case.

Remember these sellers of tiny amounts of "liquid Gold" for clocks and other machines are only wanting to retain their disproportional high profit margins....

I could have gone directly to the manufacturers myself, but I wanted the opinions of the members of CR4 first.

Thanks for posting, but please everyone, I know where to buy the "old fashioned" stuff, I actually have it and use it already, I am only interested in the make up of full synthetic oil at this time, not the "original" oils widely available.

About the only question that I would like to hear about with regard to the clock and knit machine oils available, is has anyone seen an SAE for them? That is the viscosity ratings. My car for example uses a full synthetic oil 0W-40 SAE and is almost like water it would appear, even when cold....I feel that as long as the two dangerous components that I am asking about are NOT in the oil, it would be a good and cheap alternative to buying "liquid gold!". Maybe even better?

Some folks swear by Canola oil as being acid and gum free and perfect for sewing machines etc. It is also reputed to be sperm friendly - just in case you want a truly universal lubricant.

I have no knowledge of either use, I normally use air tool oil for light jobs, mainly because I have heaps of it, but be aware that it is hygroscopic, so don't use it where there will be a lot of moisture.

When the production of a powered adhesive was transferred to our plant we consulted the manufacturer for an appropriate lubricating oil for the sewing machines used to sew the tops of multi layered bags (100 lbs capacity of adhesive, multilayer Kraft paper and poly sheeting). They recommended their product at an outrageous price. Asked previous plant what they used and they stated the service rep for the machines always recommended WHITE MINERAL OIL. Before using this they used to go through machines very quickly with the manufacturer's oil. After the change, no machines "self destructing".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mineral_oil

http://apps.echa.europa.eu/registered/data/dossiers/DISS-9ea08dfc-55a5-3699-e044-00144f67d031/DISS-9ea08dfc-55a5-3699-e044-00144f67d031_DISS-9ea08dfc-55a5-3699-e044-00144f67d031.html

For fine instruments and measuring tools I use Starrett Instrument Oil. For a general unspecified oil for lubrication of surfaces, such as metal clock parts or sewing machine parts, synthetic #10 or the synthetic 5W-20 that Ford recommends for their engines is also good. Both are readily available. Safety sheets and component listings are also readily available.

Good Luck, Old Salt

That's interesting. I would have thought any oil (within reason) OK for something like a sewing machine, but you highlight failures with inappropriate oil. Though no doubt your machine got more work than a typical domestic one, possibly in a worse environment. What is white machine oil? Is it white like milk or clear? If it's white maybe it contains PTFE. I have some white brake grease used on sliding calipers. 3-in-one is almost clear, clearer than most engine oil. Call me an MCP, but most domestic sewing machines are used by women (Andy G excepted!) and I doubt if most of them get any oil during their working life. Anything would be a bonus!

The web locations listed in the previous are extremely good and worth the time to read them. The first one

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mineral_oil gives a clear understandable description for it.

The second, http://apps.echa.europa.eu/registered/data/dossiers/DISS-9ea08dfc-55a5-3699-e044-00144f67d031/DISS-9ea08dfc-55a5-3699-e044-00144f67d031_DISS-9ea08dfc-55a5-3699-e044-00144f67d031.html

Gives a complete list of everything from birth to grave and a lot in between. These are more capable of giving you a good answer to your question than I can.

Good Luck, Old Salt

A good post, with a lot of very pertinent data, which pointed out (sadly) that it will usually have Sulphuric acid added and Oleum (stronger version of same acid!), therefore not good enough for my usages as it will be impossible for me to buy and test to see which ones have acid and which ones don't!

I require no acid.

Quote:-

A highly refined petroleum mineral oil consisting of a complex combination of hydrocarbons obtained from the intensive treatment of a petroleum fraction with sulfuric acid and oleum, or by hydrogenation, or by a combination of hydrogenation and acid treatment.

But many thanks for posting and for the easy to read and informative links you supplied, of which many others here could learn more about in "how to post with web-links"!

Have a great day.

Are you sure use of acid and oleum gives a problem in the finished product? Maybe they are neutralised by the chemicals in the petroleum fraction, or by something added subsequently. If pH means anything in oil that would give a clue, but I'm not sure it does. Maybe a sample could be mixed 1:1 with water and then tested.

I can understand you don't want to line the line the pockets of the specialist suppliers, but you must expect to get through a lot of sewing machines for cost to be an issue! Incidentally, I have here a 100ml can of 3-in-One with a 70p price tag, but I bought it about 1975.

I can get through a liter in under a month when business is brisk.....I do not stint as some of these units haven't been used for 20 years or so....they are STUCK!!

Also, the needles are easily damaged and not cheap, so I want to save as many as possible each time.

The machines I concentrate on are all electronically controlled and the company that made them, did not follow modern guide lines on the mains side, which I usually replace with IEC connectors/cables, with a proper earthing and mains filtering, to make things safer.

Plus the original 2 core mains cables, when available cost about 5-10 times more than an IEC cable, which have 3 cores and are thicker, have an earth connection and far less delicate....

Not so much a hobby, more a production line . Best of luck with the search.

Even the term 'Full Synthetic' is special terminology, which has certain nuances depending on whether we are talking about synthetics derived from crude oil, or made from scratch starting with an alcohol base. There is only one company I know of, which is 'widely' selling 'alcohol only' based synthetics to the general public. Not mentioning the Brand in order to not cross any ethical lines here; but, a little bit of internet research should turn up that information easily. Even a "full synthetic" made from crude will have ph, and trace impurities, which may challenge the stated specs you are hoping to find. Granted, if it qualifies, as "full synthetic" those trace elements will be thousands of times less than its unadorned crude counterpart; but, they are there none the less. It will also break down sooner than an alcohol based synthetic. There is a reason that jet engines are lubricated with alcohol based synthetics.

Due to my long response, I missed the posts after # 13. As for the use of jet engine oil, I had only one experience with "jet oil". The airport had a tenant leaving the area, and the building, and its contents revert back to the airport. There was a few cans of jet oil left for the taking. I used the oil for just dumb things, and it had a terrible smell to it. I dumped it, and gave away the other cans. Does it always smell bad?

As to the the consistency of Jet Oil 'smelling bad', I can't really speak to that. My knowledge of Synthetic Aviation Oil is only tangential, and limited to what little contact I had many years ago with the company that made it.

Great and VERY interesting post, many thanks.

It tends (if I understood him fully) to support my thoughts that a quality modern Synthetic motor oil, be it from crude or from alcohol base, will either only supply minute quantities of the unwanted chemicals, or none at all!

That is exactly the types of oil I was looking for....

Would you be so kind as to send me the name of the company supplying acid free oil for jet engines via a PM please?

The oil I had was from Texaco.

I do not think that either Starrett, or Singer are refining oil themselves.

In my experience with automotive, HD trucking and fire equipment related components, I have seen the following pattern. There are packaged products that bear the manufacturer's name, and make good profits for the manufacturer. And then there are the specifications that the manufacturer requires to maintain the warranty on their product. We started around 1963 with an "S" series of specifications. That was the "SA" oil requirement. Not much more than a detergent additive. That progressed to the present "SN" oil rating required for cars.

n the HD trucking industry we saw the "C" rating used for HD trucking industry engines. The most current I think is "CJ4" They were a little more confusing as they evolved. As an example the current "CJ-4" rating also meets the older ratings of "CI-4, CI-4 plus, CH-4, CG-4, CF-4, and CF/SL. It seems that each newer specification would also cover the older specifications as well as meeting the new one.

That being said, the manufacturer of the sewing or knitting machine would be the one that would specify the lubrication requirements to be used on their equipment. Understanding that some of this equipment may be very old, and the original requirement oil may no longer be in production, contacting the oil refiner of your choice, armed with the original requirement, should produce a current oil that will meet the original requirements.

That said, remember that the manufacturer posted the minimum requirement for their product at the time of manufacturer. Newer oil formulations may vastly exceed the original requirements. For example back in 1963, the lowest sulfur content available might have been 2%. While today's oil may be limited to .02% sulfur. The reduced sulfur content would be a good thing. So chasing down a 10w-30 SA oil would be foolish if a current 10w-30 SN oil is available.

If it was me, and I was looking to replace the 3 in One oil recommended, I would buy a quart of 0w-20 full synthetic, and watch for heat with an IR heat thermometer. JMHO. Good luck.

A really good and interesting post, that supports strongly my personal thoughts on the matter.

Recommended oils were sometimes made back 50 or even 100 years ago....

As I have at the moment 5 different knitting machines for repair and maintenance, I think I will try lubricating the least valuable one with Fully Synthetic motor oil and simply see how it goes.....

Many thanks for your personal thoughts and knowledge.

When I was a boy, my mother had me lubricate her Singer electric sewing machine for her. I used the oil supplied in a can, with the Singer brand on it. I would often forget to do this small task, and the machine would stop, because the rubber belt between motor and machine would start slipping with the frictional load. I would apply oil, and turn the machine over by hand, and away it would go again. This went on for 20 years, until I left home. The machine still goes after another 40 years, and no obvious slop in the bush bearings.

For a slow speed device like this, any light oil appears to do the trick. When you apply fresh oil, some old oil comes out, you wipe it, and it's gone. I say you need not be too precious with this old gear, but a newer machine may be different.

I do like bearings that are sintered bronze. They hold the oil, and bronze on steel is an excellent bearing surface.

Hi Andy,

As far as I know, the engine oils have detergent added in them which makes these oils acidic. This is done so that the oil can dissolve and remove and resin deposits formed as a result of internal combustion. So I believe, the engine oils, even if they are synthetic, should never be used to lubricate delicate machinery as the added detergents will promote rusting and may cause corrosion due to the acidity.

I will try to google and see if there are any synthetic oils, may be silicon based that could be suitable for your application. I use silicone based greases in my electromechanical equipment and digital cameras etc. and that works best.

Andy,

www.super-lube.com makes silicon and teflon based oils. I have used their Teflon formulation on delicate mechanisms and it works well.

My earlier post seems to have been lost so I am re-writing. It is possible I clicked wrong button while submitting.

Thanks for both your posts, though I do believe (maybe wrongly) that synthetic oils do not need detergents as a pure normal mineral oil of course does.

I will research a bit further on that point.

I use quite (for me!) large volumes of oil on my hobby as often the needle beds are either crusted or rusted or both (I'm a poet and didn't know it!!) and require intensive cleaning, with 3 or 4 replacements of oil till everything works as it should.

WD-40 is also a "tool" I use generously for freeing up parts......

Here, read this for any Jiffy-Lube fans here - DON'T :-

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/jiffy_lube.htm

Thanks again for your posts.

And people wonder why I do all my own vehicle maintenance (except tyre mounting and balancing) when I can well afford to pay someone else to do it.

(And I have gotten into the habit of just bringing in the rims to the shop while the vehicle sits in the driveway on jackstands. Since doing that, I've never had a problem with over-torqued lugs, or wheel covers that fall off, etc. Plus it gives me the opportunity to give all the other bits and goodies a proper look-over to identify impending failures before I'm left at the side of the road waiting for a tow truck $$)

Sadly, too true!!

I'm a poet and didn't know it!! But your feet show it.... They are Longfellows.

How about a test? Take a small piece of mild steel, sand it smooth, and wipe it clean of all oils, and then wipe a section of it with each of the oils you want to test for corrosion resistance. Just wipe on and wipe it off, so only a small trace of the oil is left. Then expose it to outdoor humidity, and watch for any signs of rust marks.

Not a very precise test, but it should be sufficient to see if the oil prevents corrosion.

Thats the sort of test that I can relate to. Thanks for the ideas.

I have also thought out a simple test for acid in oil which is usually sulphuric.

Test 1

Mix distilled water and the oil under test with some form of mixer in a clean container.

Allow to stand until water and oil separate.

Remove oil, test water using Litmus paper and colour chart.

I will use a 50:50 mixture of the oil under test and distilled water...

There is no form of calibration other than I can do the same with a new delivery of the expensive stuff which came yesterday, which I know is good and compare the results.......

Test 2

There can be no gum or pitch in good synthetic motor oil, there is simple test for that, you take a sheet of aluminium or an old, but clean pan and place a few drops of the oil in it.

Put on heat and watch. No need to rush, use a low heat.

If it leaves a dirty mark, its not good synthetic....it should evaporate with as good as no residue....

What do you think of my two tests?

But it won't be this week.....too busy.

I suspect that your lubricating concerns are not that complex. I use a product made by NYE in New Bedford, MA (USA). You can Google them. More difficult lubrication problems have included film camera lubrication for use in space. Conventional lubricants would boil away at low pressure. This problem was solved by meticulously cleaning off all lubricants and using the cameras dry. The mechanisms didn't last long, and NASA gave the used cameras away to enterprising technical people who re-lubricated them for use on earth.

Although my grandfather was a watchmaker (yes, he could and did actually MAKE a watch), and used whale oil on all his watches and clocks, those days are over. I worked as an engineer in a large company which produced precision instrumentation equipment and mechanical mechanisms of great delicacy. There were two engineers who did nothing but continual research and engineering on lubricants. They were ALWAYS to be consulted before any mechanical device was made, patent models constructed or built on any production line. Their advice was more than once necessary for correct device geometry and construction, especially tolerancing. That said, I think you need someone like that to answer your question... or else, JUST LISTEN TO WHAT THE MANUFACTURER SAYS. Their lubricants were specified by people who know.

Hi all.

Lubrication threads always take years off my life. :) But I can't resist this one.

For sewing machines and such, I'm betting commercial sewing machine service places would be a good place to query on lubrication. My daughter has a commercial machine with a sump. Serious! I've yet to chase what the lube is exactly.

Moebius lubrications have been the standard in horological circles. They have often come with a spec. sheet that helps my confidence there.

http://www.moebius-lubricants.ch/en/products/oils

I use the #8040 for a lot of small fine mechanisms, but there are a lot to choose from. I've abandoned the synthetics over the last few years preferring the extra "slippery" of the organic oil to the low "creep" of the synthetics. I used their synthetics exclusively for twenty five years and then had an old clock in for help that revealed the differences between the two and I jumped ship, for the gear train lube at least.

I've used a wide range of Moebius oils over the last 35 years or so. Other types have been tried, but lack good documentation and have never matched my performance observations.

timshels.com

Ian

I just purchased a Singer 241-12 with wet sump lubrication. I bought it so I can re-do the upholstery in my little ski boat which is pretty tired after 23 years. The oil in that sewing machine is definitely 'special'. I have a co-worker whose dad was chemist for an oil company and he concocted many different brews of lubricants for different applications. Even the grease that gives analog potentiometers that 'special feel' is an application specific lubricant designed just for that exact application. I always thought that oil was oil and grease was grease and there just wasn't that much too it. I have come to learn how wrong I was. There is a great deal of 'special sauce' in the industry once you get away from the commodity products like motor oil for automobiles.

A quick web search got me this product. Liquid Bearings Liquid Bearings, The TOP QUALITY 100%-synthetic oil for sewing machines and sergers, makes them quieter and smoother, eliminates the stalling and humming when trying to slow-stitch, odorless even when your machine gets hot!

I've used this service to measure what it is my bike oils are doing and how they're functioning. I love the detailed and personal attention at Blackstone. I do so love to measure. With my next car, I'll be sampling early and periodically to see what I can learn by tuning the lubrication to the engine.

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/

Have you seen these?

Looks good for broad strokes. Thanks

Oil analysis is very good, but usually they need a base sample to compare with. If you have a fleet of Caterpillar, C-18 engines, and you use Rotella T 15w40 oil in it, the engine that is having piston ring wear will show up in the testing. The engine with camshaft wear will show up. But to use it on a sewing machine, and an old one at that, would not produce good results. Any metal to metal that is lubricated will have some wear. It is those microscopic particles of metal that the oil analysis will find, and point out to you. How would the analysis company know the correct amount of bearing material to find in the oil?

This conversation makes me wonder if I have not put enough thought into the oil I use to lubricate my trombone slide.

Careful, you don't want it to go flying off.

Its made me think a lot more too....

An old muso acquaintance used Pond's face cream on his trombone slide. He swore by it, but cleaned and relubricated it regularly.

I've tried that. I've also tried the creams that are specifically made for trombone slides. I know people that swear by them, but I found them less responsive than oil and much too much work.

You can tell a trombonist who uses oil from the one who uses cream. The oiler puts 1 or 2 drops on each leg of his slide and plays comfortably for hours. The creamer spends 15 minutes wiping cream on and off his slide, then sprays the slide with a water mister. Water must be reapplied before each song.

I decided that I am using oil and they are using grease. Does that seem like a reasonable assessment?

I knew a guy that repaired business machines (mechanical) and he said the main cause for problems was the lubrication and that there is actually a mold that would grow in the oil that was used, especially after periods of non-use.

Check out the turbine oils.

They are excellent in rust inhibiton, corrosion inhibition, no deposits,acids,etc.

Here is a link:

http://www.mobilindustrial.com/ind/english/files/turbine-oil-mobil-dte-700-series.pdf

Good post, thanks.

Can you be 100% specific as to exactly which motor oil they used?

I firmly agree with the suggestion of using hydraulic oils. Especially those formulated for hydraulic servo valves. The last thing one would want in a precision servo valve is gum, varnish, or corrosive acids. I have always use Mobile DTE numbered series ( the number being based on viscosity) However, most major refiners such as Shell have equivalent oils.

In another reply, you brought up WD-40. For freeing gummed up, rusted, and seized up mechanisms, I have found nothing better than Kano Kroil® www.kanolabs.com

Welcome to the insanity. Thanks for your knowledgeable post.

Same from me. Good to hear from somebody with plenty of practical knowledge, and interesting that 3-in-One isn't much good.

Actually, I second that, I was never ever a fan of 3in1. Its possible the name blew me off, no idea, cheap crap is what I think!!!

My father used it for the lawnmower and I on my push bike as a kid....today I use machine oil!!

Somethings from way back are really good, TCP for example (I bring it back from the UK when we visit, even my two SILs are users, though many Germans simply hate the smell and won't touch it!).

But somethings are simply best forgotten....

The very best lubricant,exceeding even the most modern synthetics for friction

reduction, is Sperm Whale oil.

It used to be used in cutting oil,and other intense pressure applications in industry.

Of course,it has been outlawed,and rightly so.

No need to kill whales for any reason.

There is a vegetable oil that is almost exactly molecularly like sperm whale oil.

It is Jojoba oil.It is presently used in mostly cosmetics,because that is where the

most money is,and the oil is not plentiful.

It is harvested from a desert plant that requires 5 years to produce seed.

A lot of synthetics are modeled after this molecule,and some companies have

modified vegetable oil to restructure the molecules to emulate Jojoba oil.

It is often added to motor oil to enhance the lubricaion ability and reduce wear,and requires only a very low percentage to achieve a dramatic improvement.

Wynn's Friction Proofing,I believe,is a product of this technology.

This is not an advertisement for Wynns, per se,but I have seen first hand the Wynns

wear test demonstration,and have seen the positive results of adding this wear

reducing additive to gearboxes under the most extreme,resulting in many years of

extended service life,and in the extended service life for combustion engines.

There are probably other brands that can do the same thing,I just do not have any

personal experience with them.

Jojoba oil is available,and I do not know how this compares to your present cost,but

it might be worth your time to check it out.

Jojoba oil, in and of itself,may not be what you need,but a friction additive package

with Jojoba oil may just be what you need.

Also check out the patent link for results of adding Jojoba oil to Petroleum based oil.

A long read,but worth it.

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs11746-998-0010-2

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=8&ved=0CFQQFjAH&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fprofile%2FGary_List4%2Fpublication%2F43275642_Specifications_physical_properties_and_methods_of_analysis_for_jojoba_oil%2Flinks%2F54747f650cf29afed60f82ca.pdf&ei=G1TTVNfoO4SWgwS33ICYBA&usg=AFQjCNHxmld9Qw6HsqaF7I4vAvL0EYy81w&bvm=bv.85142067,d.eXY

https://www.google.com/patents/US4557841

A couple went to the priest because they were having trouble conceiving.

They asked the priest to annoint them with oil to make them more fertile.

The priest went into his cubicle,and discovered he was out of annoiting oil,but he found a can of 3in1 oil.

He decided they would never know the difference.

He used the 3in1 oil and 10 months later,the couple arrived with new born triplets.

"Thank you father for the blessing,but we did not expect triplets."

"You're welcome", said the priest,but he was thinking to himself he was glad he

didn't use the WD40.

OWWCCCHHHH!!!

LOL! You always pull it off right on everytime!

Another thought that has not been brought up, given that you are dealing with sewing and knitting machines. Will the lubricant damage the fabrics that these machines process?

When properly lubricated, they should not make contact.....

Before we had all this petroleum crap, we used animal fat to lubricate most things. Caesar's chariots, covered wagon wheels and steam locomotives were all kept turning for years with it. Go back to sheep grease. If it was good enough for Caesar, and Napoleon, it should be good enough for you.

I guess you need a little more material science nowadays.

It's not that oils formed the acids, but when water or moisture is present, you could expect acid later on forms.

It is almost a rule of thumb, for example the below

H2O + NOx => HNO3 acid

H2O + SOx => H2SO4 acid

H2O + CO2 => HCO3 acid

so on and so forth...

Yes, but there could be alkaline compounds in there which would neutralise acids.

They are actually used as part of the manufacturing process. Its no accident of nature!!

To anyone interested,here is a link to a very well written,comprehensive,and

informative web site that will enhance your knowledge of motor oils.

The title belies it's depth of coverage.

I have a shortcut on my desktop as a reference for times when I forget some of the info.

Good Reading.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

Thanks. Short and sweet.

I would just like to thank all who posted, even the ones with nothing useful to say or just critical of everything as in my personal estimation, as I have never seen such a high percentage of really useful and informative posts in comparison to a few who should really have known better. before posting...but thats CR4!! Par for the course!!

MANY, MANY THANKS TO YOU ALL!

I know exactly what I need to do now and the ball is on my side of the court.

I will also be contacting a few synthetic oil manufacturers here in Germany and ask them a few very relevant questions.

Have a great Friday and weekend everyone.

Hi Andy,

I mentioned I was an ex industrial sewing machine mechanic. Light hydraulic oil was what we used to use. It didn't break down with heat, was pumped easily through the machines at high speed and didn't leave a build up. It was purchased from Mobil in 20L drums and labelled as hydraulic oil.

I used to work for this company below in Australia. This is the spec sheet for the oil they used to supply.

http://www.penriteoil.co.nz/msds/Capron%20Carter%20Sewing%20Machine%20Oil%20REV%202%201%200910.pdf