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Can We Get Rid of Coal?

Posted February 03, 2011 7:20 AM

Much of the world, from Greenpeace to college students to environmentalists, wants the power industry to stop using "dirty old coal" to generate power. Everybody wants wind, solar, or other renewable power, it seems. Do you think it is possible for us to stop using coal? If so, when? And how will we do it? Do you have a plausible solution?

The preceding article is a "sneak peek" from Power Generation & Distribution, a newsletter from GlobalSpec. To stay up-to-date and informed on industry trends, products, and technologies, subscribe to Power Generation & Distribution today.

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#1

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/03/2011 7:45 AM

We won't stop using it, and here's a plausible solution to directly burning it.

http://www.moneyweek.com/investments/commodities/could-coal-replace-oil.aspx

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#24
In reply to #1

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/04/2011 2:51 PM

Get read of the use of Coal as well as Oil, ok. The ballast of the earth will be less and less. Every day the earth will loose 100-million ton of weight. This happen when Coal and Oil is GAS. Do your calculations your selfe, ok.

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#25
In reply to #24

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/04/2011 3:07 PM

I've actually contemplated that concept before, if I'm reading you correctly. I thought of it a long time ago, when I cut open a golf ball and found the oil inside.........I wondered if, by sucking the oil out of the earth, if we could somehow throw it off balance.

I still think it could be plausible. But that would bring other things into question, like is fossil fuel truly made from the remains of ancient plant and animal life. And if it is, how did the earth maintain it's equilibrium before the oil was here?

I don't think you're a spammer, although I also don't think your post is a solution, not right away, anyway. Maybe some smarter people than me will jump in and offer their thoughts.

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#26
In reply to #25

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/04/2011 3:24 PM

Listening, do not do anything, do not think, follow the stream and you will se the way we all are going. So many "clever" people could count out things but WHO knows the solutions? Any normal human could se that something is wrong, no one have been living here for 100-thousand years, it means thar what someone say could be wrong as well as not. Talk, talk and talk but I like to save the world from moore sh*t of any sort, coal or oil. Many people could count as well, but will this counting be correct? Peoples only interest is how to get a new car and luxury life, not many think about whats going on all over the globe.

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#38
In reply to #25

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/04/2011 7:56 PM

By the basic number here is what I got.

Say there are 10 trillion barrels of of oil left thats recoverable at an average of 7 pounds per gallon and 42 gallons to a barrel.

(7 * 42 * 10,000,000,000,000) / 2000 = 1,470,000,000,000 tons.

The earth itself is estimated at around 6,600,000,000,000,000,000,000 tons so

1,470,000,000,000 / 6,600,000,000,000,000,000,000 = .000000000227

or roughly the equivalent loss of a few cells out of your body.

If we factored the mass of coal to be 1000 times that of oil it would still be like pulling a short hair out of your arm at best.

This is the overwhelming problem with most comparisons of human efforts and energy consumption levels when comparing them to what the planet itself tosses about in its daily activity. Most people never do even to most basic mathematical comparisons as equate to how very very small we and all of our efforts really are on this planet.

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#39
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Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/05/2011 12:22 PM

GA..........That's the kind of answer that keeps me hanging around here.

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#59
In reply to #38

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/11/2011 1:08 PM

I am reminded of a similar story that appeared in the Journal of Irreproducible Results, which predicted the imminent demise of New York City and the coast of California.

http://www.jir.com/geographic.html

It seems that continuing publication of National Geographic magazine was transferring concentrated wood (paper) from the forests to big cities on the coasts at a rate of two pounds per issue times millions of copies of the magazine each month.

Since no one ever throws away a copy of National Geographic, the article predicted that the billions of pounds of accumulated paper concentrated in small areas would soon cause New York City and the California coast to break off and fall into the sea.

That article was published in 1974, and--as far as I know--New York hasn't fallen into the sea yet.

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#60
In reply to #59

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/11/2011 1:52 PM

Sorry, seldom so many of us "not normal" people have heard so much craps as here. Buddy, IF you move something like National Geographic Magazine from one place to another on the earth, the earth will NOT lose its weight, ok. If you move 100 ton of this above mentioned magazine, newspaper from one place to another, the earth will NOT losing its weight. We are talking about Coal and Oil and how this will be GAS and so the earth is losing its weight, COMPRENDE… If you are moving your body from one side of the earth to the other side, the earth will not losing any weight, ok. We do love these "intelligent" supporters. Keep on boys, we will grow more and more day by day if you support us with "news" like this. But one simple, very simple truth it is; IF you are firing up 1 thousand liter of oil, the earth will LOSE the weight with around 1 thousand kilo, the same will happen if you fire up 1 thousand ton of coal, the earth is losing 1 thousand ton, ok. You could talk and talk about this as long as you like, but GAS is ALWAYS LIGHTER than Coal or Oil, yes, so it is.

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#61
In reply to #60

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/11/2011 2:07 PM

Some serious "gas" in this post.

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#63
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Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/11/2011 2:11 PM

I think a more accurate description would be post digestion ruminant byproducts :D

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#62
In reply to #60

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/11/2011 2:08 PM

the atmosphere is still part of the system that is this planet, no amount of shouting of 1/2 baked theories will change that.

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#73
In reply to #62

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/12/2011 8:24 AM

Dearest Leo ~ to put it bluntly, permitting myself to use "language flowers" - I wouldn't give a damn, what Mr. Yosef, whoever he is, has to say about any of your work and findings. You and I know very well that today's crop of "experts" and "scientists" couldn't find their own ass to wipe, unless they had a "computer model" showing them where and how (somehow those kind of words and expletives don't sound so bad, when i is not in your own language). We have at a minimum one generation of completely computer dependent morons, who have absolutely no grasp on real life application of real, everyday practical sciences. I am sure; you have run into that over and over again. I certainly see it in my research. I could iterate a long list of proofs, but why care? I don't take them seriously and don't waste my time on them. Dr .Hanna.

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#64
In reply to #60

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/11/2011 2:14 PM

As Foghorn Leghorn might say, "That's a joke, son."

The Journal of Irreproducible Results is a humor magazine for scientists.

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#74
In reply to #64

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/12/2011 8:25 AM

Removed For Duplicate Post.

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#65
In reply to #60

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/11/2011 10:20 PM

So what about the rest of the cycle?

You know the part where those byproduct gasses produced get reabsorbed by plants and turned back into solids again, the water vapor produced condenses and falls back as rain, the solid particles settle out and everything eventually comes back to where it started on or in the ground but just in a slightly different chemical composition.

Several exchanges of energy did happen but no mass is or was ever lost.

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#66
In reply to #60

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/11/2011 11:06 PM

Boy, is your physics screwy! Gas is less dense, but not lighter, because there is more volume of it. Besides, combustion of coal also produces ash.

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Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/12/2011 8:26 AM

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#68
In reply to #60

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/12/2011 12:19 AM

Mr kastrupsky I notice you seldom, if ever, deign to reply to my comments.

Could it be because you know you cannot "win" against science, so would rather pretend I don't exist?

Another 'science fact' for you is; each ton of carbon burned produces ~3.6 tons of CO2.

Apply your special brand of logic to that, and the 'globe' is getting heavier.

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#69
In reply to #68

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/12/2011 1:23 AM

Geeze Vlad

all the time with the science

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#70
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Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/12/2011 2:42 AM
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#71
In reply to #68

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/12/2011 8:10 AM

Mr, wow, we did not know that 1 ton of burned coal will produces 3.6 ton CO2. But the "real" people could not find these equations correct at all. Could you explain this for us "not normal" people. If we count with your "calculations" we are surprised that we could breathe at all here in this atmosphere. 1 billion ton coal will be burned every day, (and even more) there will be 3 billion six hundred ton CO 2 EVERY day. This times 365 days will be 1 314 000 000 000, the earth could explode any minute. How is it possible for us to breathe? If we even count in at least 1 Billion ton of Oil burned every day, wow, we have to bike away.

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#84
In reply to #71

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/12/2011 12:29 PM

I take it you don't know crap about basic chemistry either. So here is the basics of how it works for the real people of this world.

If one mass weight unit of carbon is burned it combines with two mass weight units of oxygen to make one mass weight unit of CO2. So being that carbon has an atomic weight of 12.0107 and oxygen has a atomic weight of 15.9994 then (12.0107 +15.9994 = 15.9994 = 44.0095) which means that (44.0095/12.0107 = 3.6642.) directly relates to how one mass weight unit of CO2 is 3.6642 times heavier than one mass weight unit of carbon.

Here is a nice link to the periodic table of elements that may help you understand the basic math behind the chemistry better. http://www.ptable.com/

As far as why its not a cumulative gaining in the atmosphere I recommend you spend some time reading up on how the trillions of tons of plant life work in this planet and pay especially close attention to the part where they use photosyntheses to convert CO2 into energy and other carbon sequestering compounds.

If you would like I can probably get you a free pass to spend a few days in my 9 year old nieces elelmentary school level science class so you can catch up on the basic principals of how the reality of basic life science and chemistry work for the rest of us.

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#86
In reply to #71

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/12/2011 3:29 PM

Oh ya and your coal usage number of a Billion tons a day is off by a factor of about 33 times. The 2010 world coal consumption estimate is at around 11 Billion tons not 365 billion.

I seriously suggest that if you want anyone to think you have more intelligence than the average retarded monkey that you stop taking the environutter web sites numbers and purported "facts" as the truth. They lie and twist the numbers worse than most government officials and have as much if not more personal agenda driving their actions a any corrupt third world leader does.

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#91
In reply to #71

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/12/2011 5:48 PM

"we are surprised that we could breathe at all here in this atmosphere"

Well there was a time when we couldn't have, but then, along came a wondrous 'magic', with a strange and mysterious name.

To this day they teach this Magic to Chosen Children, some as young as 10 years, in special secrete places, I dare not name.

To become one of the "Chosen", a candidate has to have "a measurable IQ", as it has been shown, candidates in the 'gray area' below 80 points, struggle with the ancient hieroglyphics.

But many master the basic mysteries and can even "put name" to such as these ancient mysterious encryptions.

For example;

2n CO2 + 2n H2O + photons → 2(CH2O)n + 2n O2

Once mastered, they may even move to 'higher studies'

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#92
In reply to #91

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/12/2011 5:57 PM

Consistency is the last refuge of the unimaginative.

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#93
In reply to #92

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/12/2011 6:27 PM

Um - perhaps there is hope.

Could this be a turning point in your Consistently refusing to be enlightened on how it actually works.

Have you realised that repeating the same uninformed mantra is Consistently unproductive among people who do understand how it works?

Are you now asking yourself how 'Consistent' was posting the same answer to many different comments?

"Imagination" is only "useful" when the knowledge to achieve the 'dream' is acquired.

Otherwise it is just fantasy.

Give it some thought.

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#96
In reply to #93

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/13/2011 7:25 AM

I´m always searching for the talented people... Not the opposite...

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#104
In reply to #96

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/13/2011 3:36 PM

They say the main skill of a 'talent scout' is the ability to recognise talent.

I note in your following diatribe that those that disagree with your "losing weight" belief are Evil and standing between you and World awareness of this doom.

Your belief is based in total ignorance of the chemical reactions of oxidization commonly called "burning".

This has been explained, complete with atomic weights, yet plainly you cannot grasp the hieroglyphics - or are simply determined to be blind.

So, as your 'quest' is all about your 'personal position' - let me give you a taste of mine.

People like you are actually more often than not, the reason misleading names, like "Clean", and silly 'cures' like Oil-a-Cola" have held up addressing the negative effects on the biosphere, of disproportionate reintroduction of sequestered energy.

People like you provide the 'incredulity' for vested interests of the fossil lobby to point at. You are their pawn.

People like you - and your "next stupid idea", which diverts energy and focus from solutions that stand up in Science and are Practical to Engineer - are the real Devil.

People like provide the mindless babble that keeps 'real solutions' buried in 'political noise'.

I know this, as in the last 30 years, most of my time has been 'wasted' on disproving stupid ideas, using seldom more than 'high-school science', and wathching this folly obscure actioning 'real solutions'.

Real Solutions require 'just a bit more multidisciplinary knowledge', so are just a bit more difficult for politicians to grasp, than 'carnival sprooking'.

For example, in this and other threads, your no-grasp, brings out incredulity at the stupidity and ignorance of "typical greenies" - which bleeds onto ALL trying to solve Climate Energy Excess.

People like you are the reason people like me, and a couple of others on this thread "wasting their breath" - have made no headway through the 'babble', for those 30 years.

People like you are the profiteers of biosphere distress - not the solvers.

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#94
In reply to #92

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/13/2011 12:35 AM

Having a look at your site, I see smoke not much in the way of substance, there are some pretty pictures of shiny buildings

maybe hendrik14 & wilmont could use a partner? [damn I forgot DAs]

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#95
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Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/13/2011 7:24 AM

Removed For Duplicate Post.

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#97
In reply to #94

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/13/2011 7:34 AM

OK, Guest. Here's the substance and the answer to the OP's question:

" Sustainable Energy - Without the Hot Air" http://www.withouthotair.com/ And the author, David JC MacKay's website:

http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/mackay/

The book is readily available in paperback of high quality. One source:

http://www.amazon.com/Sustainable-Energy-Without-Hot-Air/dp/0954452933/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpi_1/192-4831520-2982815

But the entire book, chapter by chapter, is available on line at the first link cited above.

The old timers here have seen this info before. I try to avoid being repetitive. The general subject of energy and climate change gets a lot of discussion on CR-4. IMHO if one is to get a grip on what the energy future of any nation and what our planet as a whole will look like one would do well to study and adopt the methodologies presented by MacKay in this book. While he presents as his example the case applicable to the UK his methodology, adaptable to basic spreadsheet calculations, would be appropriate for analyzing the situation for any advanced nation that publishes relevant statistics on population, demographics and energy production and use.

You may or may not agree with whatever conclusions Mackay presents in his writings as well as the various constants in his calculations. But it is hard to disagree with his methodology in general. And by adopting it, even in simplified terms, whatever conclusions you present will have far more credibility that a simple repetition of some statistic plucked out of the vast internet forest.

Ed Weldon

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#76
In reply to #68

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/12/2011 8:27 AM

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#80
In reply to #68

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/12/2011 8:59 AM

wait, yew mean this planet is making me look fat?

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#89
In reply to #80

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/12/2011 5:11 PM

Well it could if you refuse to recycle

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#108
In reply to #60

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/15/2011 5:05 PM

"so the earth is losing its weight". So where is it going? I wish I could lose weight like the earth!

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#67
In reply to #59

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/11/2011 11:10 PM

Good answer, Poop. It brought more than just a smile to my face. It made me realize that this is the first time in my two or so years on CR-4 that I have seen this wonderfully irreverent masterpiece, the JIR, ever mentioned.

I firmly believe that 37.8% +/- 2.15% of the members of CR-4 should spend an average of 23.02 minutes reviewing the content of the JIR wbsite:

http://www.jir.com/

Ed Weldon

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#77
In reply to #67

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/12/2011 8:28 AM

Dearest Leo ~ to put it bluntly, permitting myself to use "language flowers" - I wouldn't give a damn, what Mr. Yosef, whoever he is, has to say about any of your work and findings. You and I know very well that today's crop of "experts" and "scientists" couldn't find their own ass to wipe, unless they had a "computer model" showing them where and how (somehow those kind of words and expletives don't sound so bad, when i is not in your own language). We have at a minimum one generation of completely computer dependent morons, who have absolutely no grasp on real life application of real, everyday practical sciences. I am sure; you have run into that over and over again. I certainly see it in my research. I could iterate a long list of proofs, but why care? I don't take them seriously and don't waste my time on them. Dr .Hanna.

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#98
In reply to #77

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/13/2011 8:03 AM

Dearest kastrupsky -- You are giving us too many word for word repititions of the same message. You are not helping your credibility. ............EW

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#99
In reply to #98

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/13/2011 9:34 AM

So heavy, so big talk, all this stories, so bad informed many people are, filled up with so much hate and knowing nothing, unknowing game. The Devil seems to have so many people in his hand, why and how could so many handling without knowledge, only hate and war in the mind, and refuse to examine and understand, fantastic. Almost people her think they are right, most of this people know so little of what´s going on in the world of today, and this have been going on for decades. Live and let live, help those who like to save the world, do not work against the globe if you do not understand. Environment solutions, have you ever heard about it? Tomorrow we do not exist anymore, but our children will, they do not know what's going on, but sure, they do not like to do anything but live in this splendid beautiful world we still have. Help the world to sustain, stop the hate and try to live for the best winches, by helping each other. It doesn't matter how bright you think you are, or how much money you have, there is always someone else who is brighter and richer than you, the earth will take you to the ground and to the worms anyhow. Whoever you are, this is NOT theory, it´s fact, ok. No one, nowhere, know more than that some scientists have FINDE out. If you check the information's they have given to the world, you will find that none of them is able to PROOF anything at all; they have their THEORY and ASSUMPTION, nothing else, ok. As you know, BELEIVE is NOTHING. If 1 liter gasoline is burned to gas we have lost 1 kilo, nearly, naturally, yes. OK; if you could PROOF this, and I mean PROOF this, I will change my statements, yes, at once, but you have to PROOF it, nothing else, no theory or any reference to something you don't know anything about. Talk is talk, nothing else; proof is proof, nothing else. If burning up coal and oil there will be gas, OK! Please PROOF to me, tell me the REAL facts, where the weight of 100-billion cubic meter of Coal and 1-thousand million liter of oil will go, or be, where will the weight be? No one else on this earth could do anything but ASSUMPT this, ok. The earth is NOT producing any new coal or oil, no way at all. Einstein was talking about this long time ago; if we send out to the space weights, and C2, the earth is losing its weight, yes. How to get it back? I will be happy if you could, or someone else, PROOF that we are not losing weights from the earth every day, and do not talk, PROOF it, thank you very much. If you could PROOF that the earth is not losing weight, the same weight as mentioned above, you could have the Nobel Prize at once. Proven, "conservation" mass, by whom? Can they PROOF this? Some of you are talking about solutions like, 1 ton coal deliver 3.6 ton of mass back to the earth. PROOF it, not yeast talk and put some figures with zeros behind, PROOF it. To use Coal and Oil must be stopped as soon as possible. The earth will stop working; if you could see around the globe you will se that MILLIONS of threes, green grass, deer, birds, fish, and many hundred thousands of different things, including the human being, are dying day by day. Scientist means that they have found out something but NOT PROOVEN it; we are talking about the earth here and nothing else, ok. We would be very proud if someone will support this entire people around the world who really like to save the world from more destroying things. To copy some books and do not understand the real meaning of it is nothing at all. Only hungry animals attacking, civilized people do not do this, bless all of you.

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#100
In reply to #99

Can We Get Rid of the Uninformed?

02/13/2011 12:37 PM

I see you fall back on classic tactics

1) accuse your opponent of using the methods you are employing

2) repeat the same misconception(s) & hope it will be accepted as fact

many members here have given basic explanations of how coal & petroleum are converted into other compounds, matter isn't destroyed or lost... no matter how many times you post your misguided notions, these processes remain as they have always been

sadly your understanding of even the most basic science, seems elusive

Perhaps you should stick with renderings of houses for the wealthy?

You are without a doubt a legend in your own mind

In short why are you here?

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#101
In reply to #99

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/13/2011 12:51 PM

WTF are you smoking or what cave do you live in any way?

If you want solid proof take a basic chemistry class. See my number 84 post for the math and proof of how it works. Every Science department of any college, university or even most good high schools have basic equipment that can prove that what we say is both a true and a well known and understood science. You can even do a simple test yourself. Use a accurate scale and burn a few ounces or grams of coal inside a large sealed container and see if the container gets lighter or stays the same.

As far as Einstein goes you are gross disgrace to his name and work by just commenting on it in the context that you use it. You could have just as well used the Wright Brothers, Tesla, Edison, or any other of the greats of science just like most any other Pseudo science goofs do.

The Earth is getting heavier not lighter also being there are thousands of tons of space dust and debris being accumulated and adding mass to the planet every day. Read up on meteors and meteorites if you want to know how that science works.

BTW, it wouldn't hurt to brush up on your writing skills by using some basic proof reading and spell checks before submitting your ramblings. It greatly adds to a persons plausible knowledge credit by showing a little proper writing skills and understandings of how to properly apply the written languages of the people to whom you wish to communicate with. It doesn't have to be perfect but at least showing you made an honnest effort makes a huge difference in how you will be viewed.

(Personal post #1500!)

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#102
In reply to #99

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/13/2011 1:48 PM

While your altruistic bent for promoting a sustainable, renewable energy future is most admirable, you really must have some firm footing in the basics in order to realize it.

Otherwise....

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#103
In reply to #102

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/13/2011 3:15 PM

But ........Can We Get Rid of Troll? Methinks we have attracted one :

In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into a desired emotional response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion. ………. Wikipedia

I do believe this one breached the barrier between legitimate discussion and troll behavior when he started copying the same identical and lengthy statements as responses to several different postings.

Ed Weldon

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#72
In reply to #38

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/12/2011 8:23 AM

Removed For Duplicate Post.

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#107
In reply to #38

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/15/2011 5:02 PM

More importantly, where does the mass go when we burn coal and oil? Do we just lose it, if so where does it go, or does it just disappear?

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#109
In reply to #107

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/15/2011 6:52 PM

More importantly, the mass will be GAS when we burn coal and oil? And we just lose it, and where does it go? Out true university and it just disappear? If something else could be, we could not live here anymore, COMPRENDE! Nothing, NOTHING at all of all this GAS could be taken care of by our earth, ok. And IF, could you "intelligential" tell me where it could be? And, please, do not copy some books or something like that; you have to PROOF it, nothing else, ok. I and several real scientists could proof what we say, yes. Power to the earth…PS, you have to PROOF your solutions, then we could do so as well...

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#111
In reply to #109

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/15/2011 6:57 PM

So where did you learn all of your scientific material at anyway?

Believe me we all want to know who taught you what you know.

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#113
In reply to #109

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/15/2011 7:55 PM

We comprehend, but it's clear you don't

why is it your 1/4 baked ranting is supposed to be accepted as fact?

but basic chemistry is fiction?

extraordinary claims, require extraordinary proof

what leads you to believe the world of science is wrong?

if an "theory" needs proof it would be yours

Who is this "we" you claim to support your imaginings? several members have provided links to help you understand

Can you cite any reference materials?

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#114
In reply to #113

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/15/2011 8:06 PM

Study and you will find out yourself, ok

The earth is NOT a CLOSED system. Can YOU proof it, and we means PROOF, nothing else, ok. Come back from the blue... How could the water from the moon "run" away? Some scientists have "found out" this.

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#122
In reply to #114

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/15/2011 9:45 PM

"How can water from the moon run away?" WTF does that even mean?

If you are referring to the lunar ice deposits, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_water, That is a whole different thing but that too is well known in the scientific community as to how and why it formed and manages to be still there today.

In a zero atmosphere conditions, vacuum of space, solid ice will do something called sublimation which means it turns directly from solid to vapor and skips the liquid phase all together. However when water ice is kept at near absolute zero temperatures that sublimation effect becomes incredibly slow. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sublimation_(phase_transition)

And again if you know so much more about how the world works than us why are you not giving use references to where you learned what you claim to know so that we too can learn it as well?

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#115
In reply to #113

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/15/2011 8:12 PM

Does all of this mean I can start drinking during the week?*

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#118
In reply to #115

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/15/2011 8:17 PM

Even if you disagree with someone, it's never appropriate to use insults or other offensive language. Rude comments don't add any value to a discussion, and only divert attention away from the author's work. It's perfectly fine to offer constructive criticism, just be polite.

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#121
In reply to #118

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/15/2011 9:04 PM

Sorry dude. This thread is like the freaking twilight zone. Everything you say is right. I'm outta here!!!!!

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#140
In reply to #115

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

03/09/2011 8:17 AM

I will definitely vote for that. Give me an address, and I will buy the first round,

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#142
In reply to #140

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

03/09/2011 8:31 AM

I think being half drunk should be prerequisite for some of these threads.

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#143
In reply to #142

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

03/09/2011 9:02 AM

Starting them or reading them?

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#144
In reply to #143

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

03/09/2011 9:38 AM

Mostly reading them. Although I think that some are started in the same state.

If they're not drunk, they've really got some serious problems.

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#116
In reply to #113

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/15/2011 8:14 PM

Even if you disagree with someone, it's never appropriate to use insults or other offensive language. Rude comments don't add any value to a discussion, and only divert attention away from the author's work. It's perfectly fine to offer constructive criticism, just be polite.

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#119
In reply to #116

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/15/2011 8:27 PM

What insult?

why are you here? you feel it is fine for you to be rude & that you are somehow more informed than the membership here

when I ask you to prove it, you act the injured party, which is a typical diversionary tactic...

using the same post with very minor revisions, is another method to try to reinforce a non-existent or weak argument

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#120
In reply to #119

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/15/2011 8:34 PM

You secret man. Even if you disagree with someone, it's never appropriate to use insults or other offensive language. Rude comments don't add any value to a discussion, and only divert attention away from the author's work. It's perfectly fine to offer constructive criticism, just be polite.

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#124
In reply to #120

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/15/2011 10:37 PM

No secret

I know Bullshyt when I read it, no insult, just an observation of what is clear to everyone who hasn't bailed out of the thread.

What value does your flight of fancy add to this thread?

until you decided to switch to copy n paste replies, there was at least some mild entertainment

Can you tell me who the author of this blog entry is? I think not, so trying to defend the author of this bit of infotainment is yet another diversion

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#125
In reply to #124

Can't we just all get along?

02/15/2011 11:02 PM

What was the question?

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#126
In reply to #125

Re: Can't we just all get along?

02/15/2011 11:21 PM

Do you think it is possible for us to stop using coal? If so, when? And how will we do it? Do you have a plausible solution?

the answers:

yes

not in the foreseeable future

there won't be one solution, it will come to pass through a series of incremental innovations & improvements in efficiency

boring pragmatisim I know, but the question is kind of vague....

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#127
In reply to #126

Re: Can't we just all get along?

02/15/2011 11:33 PM

Thank you, secret man, for that fine recap and an answer with which I am positively in accord.

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#132
In reply to #127

Re: Can't we just all get along?

02/18/2011 12:15 PM

You, as well as so many other"brilliant minded" know EVERYTHING about mine and ALL of the Patent in the world during Floating Energy Barges, ok. Why are you wondering about my inventions? Answer me only this here, ok. Did YOU really KNOW ALL constructions for Floating Energy Barges, all over the world? Do you REALLY know all the inventions during Wind Power, Sun Power and ALL other patent and Innovations from all over the globe for HOW to SAVE the World from crashing totally? Do you know everything now happening all over the globe? Cool down and use your head. Doesn't matter how smart you all think you are, there is always one who is smarter than you, ok. It doesn't mean it´s me, but there are smarter guys around the globe, but they do not like to be arguing with so intelligent people like you, here in this forum. Right now, I have to deliver my 36th Floating Energy Barge, and my 27th Wind Mill and my 164-thousand Energy Blinds, this week. You see, my mentor 50 years back, gave to me the best word anyone could give; DO IT, and let NOBODY STOP you… My mentors name? INGVAR KAMPRAD, IKEA, and he are now one of the richest men on earth, ok. Smile boys, smile, and always try to stop those who really like to save our globe. One more question, are you doing anything for saving the globe? If yes, tell people and do something REAL.

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#135
In reply to #132

Re: Can't we just all get along?

02/18/2011 7:08 PM

"One more question, are you doing anything for saving the globe? If yes, tell people and do something REAL."

Well we are trying to save the world from con artists and senile old fools so what does that count as?

Regarding your energy barges I seem to find more information relating to their failure and being ignored by everyone with any level of engineering experience than to anyone actually buying one and having it work well enough to bother reporting it to the world.

Same with the energy blinds thing. Too vague of reference to even be able to find what ever version of them may be possibly associated with you.

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#141
In reply to #132

Re: Can't we just all get along?

03/09/2011 8:24 AM

I have one simple question. How much of your sales, percentage wise, is supplied by government grants, gov't loans, or other tax based subsidies? I have no problem with alternative energies. I have used them for years, and have even invested in a few that I thought were useful, promising, and self-sustaining. However, I do not think that new industries should be propped up by government mandates or tax breaks just so they can get close to the same cost per KWH of existing power supplies.

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#128
In reply to #126

Re: Can't we just all get along?

02/16/2011 3:47 AM

The real answer is NO...or at least not until it all runs out.

We need coal (not really very much) for the steam locomotives on our preservation railways. We ought to keep them in original condition, so we shouldn't change to oil or gas, and the stoker wants to keep his job.

Outside of that, I think you've said it all.

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#129
In reply to #128

Re: Can't we just all get along?

02/16/2011 6:48 AM

According to the International Energy Agency, in order to transition from a world that gets 81% of its energy from fossil fuels and to cut CO2 emissions to just 14 gigatons/yr, this is what will have to be built every year between now and 2050:

35 coal-fired and 20 gas-fired power plants with carbon capture and storage

30 nuclear power plants

12,000 onshore wind turbines paired with 3,600 offshore ones

45 geothermal power plants

325 million square meters-worth of photovoltaics

55 solar-thermal power plants

The IEA does not guarantee that these power infrastructure additions will prevent the Earth from losing mass, falling off its axis, and swinging into the sun.

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#130
In reply to #129

Re: Can't we just all get along?

02/18/2011 12:13 PM

You, as well as so many other"brilliant minded" know EVERYTHING about mine and ALL of the Patent in the world during Floating Energy Barges, ok. Why are you wondering about my inventions? Answer me only this here, ok. Did YOU really KNOW ALL constructions for Floating Energy Barges, all over the world? Do you REALLY know all the inventions during Wind Power, Sun Power and ALL other patent and Innovations from all over the globe for HOW to SAVE the World from crashing totally? Do you know everything now happening all over the globe? Cool down and use your head. Doesn't matter how smart you all think you are, there is always one who is smarter than you, ok. It doesn't mean it´s me, but there are smarter guys around the globe, but they do not like to be arguing with so intelligent people like you, here in this forum. Right now, I have to deliver my 36th Floating Energy Barge, and my 27th Wind Mill and my 164-thousand Energy Blinds, this week. You see, my mentor 50 years back, gave to me the best word anyone could give; DO IT, and let NOBODY STOP you… My mentors name? INGVAR KAMPRAD, IKEA, and he are now one of the richest men on earth, ok. Smile boys, smile, and always try to stop those who really like to save our globe. One more question, are you doing anything for saving the globe? If yes, tell people and do something REAL.

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#133
In reply to #130

Re: Can't we just all get along?

02/18/2011 12:31 PM

What are you on about now?

you have moved on to Name dropping then?

saying floating energy barge is meaningless, unless you elaborate on the technology involved

If you are trying to do some marketing or wrangle some investments $'s you ain't very good at it

once again why are you here?

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#134
In reply to #130

Re: Can't we just all get along?

02/18/2011 12:36 PM

Well, I fail to see how your response relates to my post, or to the original post. I was musing about what it would take to transition to an almost carbon-free energy future, and took the time to cite an actual reference along the way.

You, on the other hand, see fit to hold high a man known to be wealthy (who cares), a purveyor of flimsy decorations, and a fascist.

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#131
In reply to #128

Re: Can't we just all get along?

02/18/2011 12:14 PM

You, as well as so many other"brilliant minded" know EVERYTHING about mine and ALL of the Patent in the world during Floating Energy Barges, ok. Why are you wondering about my inventions? Answer me only this here, ok. Did YOU really KNOW ALL constructions for Floating Energy Barges, all over the world? Do you REALLY know all the inventions during Wind Power, Sun Power and ALL other patent and Innovations from all over the globe for HOW to SAVE the World from crashing totally? Do you know everything now happening all over the globe? Cool down and use your head. Doesn't matter how smart you all think you are, there is always one who is smarter than you, ok. It doesn't mean it´s me, but there are smarter guys around the globe, but they do not like to be arguing with so intelligent people like you, here in this forum. Right now, I have to deliver my 36th Floating Energy Barge, and my 27th Wind Mill and my 164-thousand Energy Blinds, this week. You see, my mentor 50 years back, gave to me the best word anyone could give; DO IT, and let NOBODY STOP you… My mentors name? INGVAR KAMPRAD, IKEA, and he are now one of the richest men on earth, ok. Smile boys, smile, and always try to stop those who really like to save our globe. One more question, are you doing anything for saving the globe? If yes, tell people and do something REAL.

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#29
In reply to #24

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/04/2011 4:26 PM

Earth is a 'closed system' - unless you intend to export the "100-million ton of weight" by launching it, or piping it to another place, you can't change the mass.

I suggest you re-"Do your calculations your selfe, ok."

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#112
In reply to #29

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/15/2011 7:43 PM

The earth is NOT a CLOSED system. Can YOU proof it, and we means PROOF, nothing else, ok.

More importantly, the mass will be GAS when we burn coal and oil? And we just lose it, and where does it go? Out true university and it just disappear? If something else could be, we could not live here anymore, COMPRENDE! Nothing, NOTHING at all of all this GAS could be taken care of by our earth, ok. And IF, could you "intelligential" tell me where it could be? And, please, do not copy some books or something like that; you have to PROOF it, nothing else, ok. I and several real scientists could proof what we say, yes. Power to the earth… PS, you have to PROOF your solutions, then we could do so as well...

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#123
In reply to #112

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/15/2011 10:18 PM

"The earth is NOT a CLOSED system. Can YOU proof it, and we means PROOF, nothing else, ok."

You don't seem to believe in "science", so maybe we need a personal empirical exercise here.

See if you can throw something small off Earth so it doesn't fall back.

Now if you can manage that, try throwing off the mass of the biosphere.

-----------------------

"I and several real scientists could proof what we say, yes."

When 'real scientists' are growing up, they do an experiment (in a secret place that cannot be named) which involves burning (oxidizing) things in bell jars and finding there is no change in (mass) weight.

Can any one of your 'real scientists' "POOF" a different outcome?

-----------------------

Note; the bell jar mimics the 'gravitationally contained biosphere'

-----------------------

BUT; IF your "scientists" could "Dis PROOF" all above; by say making a spaceship out of CO2, and "PROOF" of it just floats away from Earth ....... ?

Nations would throw money at you and NASA would be out of business.

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#40
In reply to #1

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/05/2011 12:26 PM

What laws and where? The globe has no laws at all. The only law there is it, is to SAVE the globe, nothing else. Solutions we have, Floating Energy Barges in the rivers of the globe will save the world totally. 6.5 million kilometers of rivers will take care of all what the globe need. And people use more power in their house as they need. Why are people heating up schools when they are not in there? 200 days per year the school is empty. Office buildings are empty 150 days per year, why warming them up or cooling them down. Why are people heating up there house when they are not home? It´s interesting how little people of today think. Many yeast talk, talk and talk, they do not like to say that they do not understand at all. NO ONE, doesn't matter who, do not know the whole thing about our earth, no one have the correct answer, ok. Confess and be happy...

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#42
In reply to #40

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/05/2011 12:39 PM

I confess.........I drank lots of beer last night.

Your surch is over.........I'm also an Elvis impersonator.

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#47
In reply to #42

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/05/2011 6:10 PM

GA

Of course, our fave Entremanure was actually trying to respond to me "Laws" wise, but I think I'll wait till the Savior of Earth finds someone talented enough to click on the right button for him.

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#48
In reply to #47

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/05/2011 7:13 PM

Entremanure

Now that's funny! I knew I liked you.

Let me know the next time you're being yelled at. I've got an infinite arsenal of smart a$$ comments.

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#51
In reply to #48

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/05/2011 7:45 PM

Wot? Someone yelled? at me?

Oh oh, better put the sign then

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#52
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Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/05/2011 7:50 PM

I did not know that hippopotamus could write, and copy the humans, I didn't know.

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#53
In reply to #52

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/05/2011 8:22 PM

Add it to your list

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#117
In reply to #48

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/15/2011 8:16 PM

Even if you disagree with someone, it's never appropriate to use insults or other offensive language. Rude comments don't add any value to a discussion, and only divert attention away from the author's work. It's perfectly fine to offer constructive criticism, just be polite.

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#43
In reply to #40

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/05/2011 2:11 PM

What school system are you part of? ours are open 36 weeks a year and have activities going most Saturdays and for much of the summer time as well which means most public school buildings are used in one fashion or another 300+ days a year.

And what businesses are you referring to? Most here are open 6.5 to 7 days a week 52 weeks a year which works out to 338 - 365 days a year they are in use.

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#44
In reply to #43

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/05/2011 4:48 PM

Ok, we will checking your information's, we know people in Dakota. No holydays, a Christmas, no summer free days, we wonder and will find out this in Dakota. And I do hope there will be some people here who really know the system in Dakota. And as you mean people are in there home 365 DAYS, the whole day per year as well, ALL in the family, all over the world? In every office people work 365 days per year? Boy, try to lie to someone else. Power...

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#45
In reply to #44

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/05/2011 5:11 PM

What lies?

I never said a thing about homes but yes many homes do have people in them all day every day. You know preschool children, retired people, elderly, and or just to lazy to get a job. Those groups still count as people that are at home far more than anywhere else.

The vast majority of stores and normal businesses are open Monday through Saturdays normal hours and Sundays are typically noon to 5 PM if not all day and many are open 24/7/365 too. In my book that counts as 6.5+ days a week they are open and active to me and many even though they are not open to the public still have people working there doing one thing or another.

As far as schools go my parents where both life long teachers and I know for a fact a good number of people are in those buildings a lot more often than just when the students are there. Many teachers show up at 6 AM to get ready for there days and many others stay late to finish their work. Custodial crews and maintenance workers are there after hours and during weekends along with any other faculty who choose to come in on Saturdays and Sundays for what ever reason. Then there is the whole after school and weekend related activities pertaining to sports and other extra curricular stuff that goes one at other days and times outside of school hours that also cover summer time days as well. By my measure schools don't sit vacant for the majority of the year by any rational means.

Check all you want.

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#46
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Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/05/2011 5:54 PM

Do find the hat, or the orange glasses more appealing?*

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#49
In reply to #45

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/05/2011 7:15 PM

Tcmtech, ok argue against everything and you will be happy. You are one of thouse who know EVERTHING arround the globe, the people who is reading your comments know what you are, yes.

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#54
In reply to #49

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/05/2011 9:15 PM

Aww, are you getting pissy over the math I used earlier that suggests how infinitesimally small we and our actions really are?

You also referred to where I live as "Dakota" like its a town where you know people at but but I suspect that like most everything else you have said here you don't know WTF you are talking about. For the record I live In North Dakota which is located in the center of the North American continent in the United States of America.

Regarding my knowing things well actually I am one of those rare people who is just smart enough to realize how much I don't know but unfortunately that intelligence does still place me far enough over the likes of people who believe the earth looses mass when things burn to well... You figure it out, I am rather confident the rest here can make their own decisions as to who knows more about what around here.

As far also what everyone else thinks about me I guess I have to reluctantly fall back on to referencing the good answer rating ratio they bestow on me and the fact I at least know where to find things on a world map.

The ball is in your court but I doubt you even know what game we are playing here.

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#79
In reply to #54

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/12/2011 8:36 AM

We, all of us, understand very well, you are playing some game, reality is something else. Play on boys, play on.

Removed For Duplicate Post.

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#82
In reply to #79

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/12/2011 11:57 AM

When there is a practical explanation of the magnitude of the numbers & forces involved you scoff & reply with blather

I'm not sure what posting the same condemnation of science multiple times is supposed to accomplish?

Just because you don't understand how to harness the power of information technology, does not negate the power.

in short why are you here?

what's your point?

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#50
In reply to #45

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/05/2011 7:44 PM

What, WHAT are you doing for the globe? How could you do anything for the world? Talk will not save the world from more pollution, ok. It´s better to be positive than opposite, ok. You could help the world by doing something, YES! So many "brilliant" minds here, but not many know what's going on with the globe. How to save the world is what we are talking about. How to stop ruin the globe by using Coal and Oil, this is the questions, nothing else, ok. Negatively people, stay home and do not help us other to save the globe from exhaust and bad influence. Do never support the men who like to do something or nothing at all. So many people KNOW things that never exist, but they have lots of fantasy, very few people like to have explanations if they do not understand; this is low, very low. Most people like to have war instead of peace, often I wonder WHY.

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#78
In reply to #45

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/12/2011 8:30 AM

Removed For Duplicate Post.

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#2

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/03/2011 9:27 AM

Can we get rid of coal?

Sure, how about we burn it to get rid of it. So not to be wasteful, use the by product of burning it to power our homes.

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#3

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/03/2011 10:38 PM

"..Greenpeace to college students to environmentalists.." will just have to get used to nuclear, with wind, tidal, geothermal and solar having important niches.

It's simple really. Ffej

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#4

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/04/2011 8:05 AM

For all the tree huggers out there wanting to stop using coal, I laugh and ask the following question. Where will you get your electricity if we stop burning coal? Do you know how much of the US's and the rest of the world's electricity is generated from burning coal? The answer is upwards of 60% of the electricity for the entire world is generated by burning coal. If we take away the coal, several things would happen. First the world economy would collapse. There are not enough hydro dams, wind turbines, and solar panels in the world to make up for 5% of what is generated with coal. Coal pumps 100's of billions of dollars into the world economy. The reason the government taxes is so much, is because we can not do without it. They play a shell game with the public, telling them they can lower electric rates by improving the grid and then add another tax to coal, thereby increasing the price of electricity. I am all for alternative energy sources. However, every time they try to expand or build a nuclear reactor, the greenies fight that also. Solar and wind power will never generate more than 10% of what the world needs. Hydro has the ability to produce about 15%. Nuclear has the ability to produce another 15%. So my question to the greenies and Al Gore is, where do we get the other 60% of the electricity that we need? I have been in the power industry for over 25 years, and the greenies have been talking about replacing coal since before that. If it is so easy, why haven't they done it yet?

This should certainly stir the pot and get me a few ugly replies, but it is true.

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#6
In reply to #4

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/04/2011 8:14 AM

I agree with you about how much we depend on coal, I am even burning coal in my home right now. I can heat my house for a month for $150, that's cheaper than natural gas or oil.

I also agree with you that its a money game, economics play a huge roll in why we do what we do.

I agree that at this point and time renewable energy cant produce enough electricity to supply what coal is, but that is just because its relatively new technology.

I believe with more education, research, and refining of this new technology it will become economically plausible to use and could eventually produce enough electricity to power the world without the need for coal.

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#14
In reply to #4

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/04/2011 10:32 AM

Dear Sir...may I buy you a drink!

Coal first, then Fission...I think it's time that the Fed stop hiding the technology of the future...H2O.

The question is not technology, but that the sun is free and H2O isn't all that more expensive.

So, how do you replace the fossil fueled global economy and "WHO GETS PAID".

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#5

Re: Can We Get Rid of Coal?

02/04/2011 8:06 AM

I am sure there will be a day when we stop burning coal, but I don't see it in the near future. One reason, coal is cheap. I priced solar panels to put on my roof and it was unbelievable how much they are. The technology is still new, and new is expensive. More research, development, and refining needs to go into the "renewable energy" technology. I feel if solar panels were cheap enough that every home in America could put them on, even if they only get sun for a few hours, then that would greatly cut down the demand for coal power plants. Large factories and businesses could put them on their roofs and produce a lot of power. The farm complex in Harrisburg, PA is an example of what can be done with solar energy.

So to answer your questions;

  • Do you think it is possible for us to stop using coal?
    • YES
  • If so, when?
    • When the technology makes it economically plausible for everybody to afford it.
  • How will we do it?
    • Through education, research, developing, and refining the renewable energy sources.
  • Do I have a plausible solution?
    • I don't have the education needed to give a plausible solution, I just know that anything is possible when given the resources.
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