Engineering News Blog

Engineering News

Latest news of interest to engineers. Sourced from GlobalSpec's Engineering News

Previous in Blog: Bright idea creates '25-hour day'   Next in Blog: Scientists Ramp Up for Pyramid Theory
Close
Close
Close
17 comments
Rate Comments: Nested

With two dimensions of time, many of the mysteries of today's laws of physics may disappear

Posted May 16, 2007 5:08 PM
User-tagged by 1 user

From What's Next In Science & Technology:

For a long time, Itzhak Bars has been studying time. More than a decade ago, the USC College physicist began pondering the role time plays in the basic laws of physics — the equations describing matter, gravity and the other forces of nature. Those laws are exquisitely accurate. Einstein mastered gravity with his theory of general relativity, and the equations of quantum theory capture every nuance of matter and other forces, from the attractive power of magnets to the subatomic glue that holds an atom's nucleus together. But the laws can't be complete. Einstein's theory of gravity and quantum theory don't fit together. Some piece is missing in the picture puzzle of physical reality. Bars thinks one of the missing pieces is a hidden dimension of time.

Read the whole article

Reply

Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".
2
Guru
Engineering Fields - Manufacturing Engineering - United Kingdom - Member - Get things done!

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: East Anglia, UK
Posts: 2003
Good Answers: 3
#1

Re: With two dimensions of time, many of the mysteries of today’s laws of physics may disappear

05/17/2007 8:35 AM

Right, I understood everything up to 'studying time'.

__________________
'The truth is out there' The lies are in your head.
Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
4
Power-User

Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 441
Good Answers: 20
#2

Re: With two dimensions of time, many of the mysteries of today's laws of physics may disappear

05/18/2007 10:04 AM

"In ordinary physics, position and momentum differ because the equation for momentum involves velocity. Since velocity is distance divided by time, it requires the notion of a time dimension. If swapping the equations for position and momentum really doesn't change anything, then position needs a time dimension too."

Not necessarily, swapping the equations is not a valid premise. It's like using a wrench for a hammer i.e., wrong tool for the job. Mathemeticians seem to excell in creating artificial constucts to support weak theory. Where is the proof any other time dimensions exist other than the one we experience? It seems as though every time the theroetical community gets in trouble with any of its pet theories they invent a new time dimension with explantions so convoluted Occam would have a field day.

__________________
intellectuals solve problems, geniuses prevent them ~ Einstein
Reply Good Answer (Score 4)
The Architect
Engineering Fields - Software Engineering - S/W Architect Popular Science - Evolution - Fascinating! Fans of Old Computers - TRS-80 - A fine computer United States - US - Statue of Liberty - NY

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: GlobalSpec, Troy NY
Posts: 386
Good Answers: 5
#3
In reply to #2

Re: With two dimensions of time, many of the mysteries of today's laws of physics may disappear

05/18/2007 3:43 PM

I think you have to give these off-the-wall guys the room they need to explore... do you think Einstein got a warm reception at first?

That said, I wouldn't have a lot of patience if I got cornered at a party by someone talking this way... I can only take that kind of mind twist in small doses.

__________________
Mark Gaulin
Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Cosmology - New Member United States - Member - New Member

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: 33.49N, 84.19W
Posts: 1475
Good Answers: 3
#5
In reply to #2

Re: With two dimensions of time, many of the mysteries of today's laws of physics may disappear

05/20/2007 3:25 PM

Hi taejonkwando,

Take a look at this month's issue of Discover magazine (special issue) June 2007, pg. 78. Time may not exist after all! It may just be a fig newton.

Regards,

John

__________________
All worthwhile programmers know that constants always vary.
Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Sheboygan, WI USA
Posts: 372
Good Answers: 13
#8
In reply to #2

Re: With two dimensions of time, many of the mysteries of today's laws of physics may disappear

09/09/2007 2:21 PM

Greetings Taejonkwando,

When a very close relative (maybe others too) dies have you ever seen them in your dreams? Are dreams an access to another time dimension? The next afternoon I was called, the death occurred during the previous night.

A lady I once dated was a nursing instructor for 30 years and she said at death there is a 0.7 lb loss that is unaccounted for and is called the soul leaving the body. Where does this soul go to? another time dimension or just another dimension we just do not know about yet?

Is the living world a way to get access to the answers?

Dan

__________________
"I believe we are masters of our lives - we hold all the cards and it is up to us to use them right." Vesna Vulova - survived 33,000ft fall
Reply Off Topic (Score 3)
Guru
Popular Science - Cosmology - New Member Popular Science - Paleontology - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Popular Science - Genetics - New Member Popular Science - Biology - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: The Nevernever as much as possible, Earth when I have no choice.
Posts: 665
Good Answers: 11
#14
In reply to #2

Re: With two dimensions of time, many of the mysteries of today's laws of physic

06/05/2008 10:32 PM

Taejonkwando, G.A. Perhaps instead of creating more complexity, the universe and its laws are actually less complex and simply need a different viewpoint. Such as space/time is mutable according to the gravitation field that passes through it. Space/time itself might simply be the framework that the appearance of matter and energy are attached to.

English is not really an efficient language for this sort of discussion. Unfortunately I lack the theoretical mathematical skills to convey my ideas.

Your friend Dragon

__________________
Ignorance is the beginning of knowledge. Heresy is the beginning of wisdom. The ignorant heretic is the wisest of all.
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Transcendia
Posts: 2963
Good Answers: 93
#17
In reply to #2

Re: With two dimensions of time, many of the mysteries of today's laws of physic

02/05/2009 8:22 PM

Some are looking seriously for proof of a multi universe universe. There are some events and places or non places and things and non things. The hourglass that ran the sands of time was dependent on gravity for any constant of the hourglasses made to the makers choke hole turn standard. A non thing here is a thing somewhere, I guess. 2 is not enough. We do need to know enough to know what is possible. What is possible has been, or will be. It could be possible from what I know that our universe is just one of many. Is gravity constant for all universes, or is the speed of light the same in all?

__________________
You don't get wise because you got old, you get old because you were wise.
Reply
Anonymous Poster
#4

Re: With two dimensions of time, many of the mysteries of today's laws of physics may disappear

05/20/2007 2:07 PM

Time is not a dimension!

Reply
Power-User
Engineering Fields - Marine Engineering - New Member United Kingdom - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Birmingham UK
Posts: 253
Good Answers: 1
#6

Re: With two dimensions of time, many of the mysteries of today's laws of physics may disappear

07/04/2007 6:55 AM

There is an argument for time only existing in the physical but, what would happen if time were three dimensional or we could function in three dimensional time?

__________________
Reset, Reset
Reply
Anonymous Poster
#7

Re: With two dimensions of time, many of the mysteries of today's laws of physics may disappear

07/17/2007 7:42 AM

Some one said (forget who) it is not that it is too difficult to understand;
rather, it is so difficult that we cannot possibly understand. That is, we
not only have to think "out of the box" - more like, out of the country!

Like many, I often wonder about time and conclude it is subjective.
My perception of time is probably totally different to eg. a moth; with
only a few days to live; or say a fish, in a totally different environment.

How these disparate "times" are integrated into a "frame" for each one
to correlate with the other, to me, is especially amazing. God's sudoku?

The mystery of how "He" does it; his "blueprint" of time, is a far more
inspiring frontier to understand than any other; perhaps for Eternal life?
I need another life time to think about it!

jt.

http://www.fastfreeads.com

Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Sheboygan, WI USA
Posts: 372
Good Answers: 13
#9

Re: With two dimensions of time, many of the mysteries of today's laws of physics may disappear

10/27/2007 11:19 PM

Time is relative, a division of the cycles of the sun and the moon.

Multi-dimensional is not time, it is a state of being, the soul moving between dimensions or states is the mystery. This already happens, but taking machinery with the soul is the question?

__________________
"I believe we are masters of our lives - we hold all the cards and it is up to us to use them right." Vesna Vulova - survived 33,000ft fall
Reply
Participant

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: From October to April in South Africa (Somerset West), from April to October in Europe (Antwerp)
Posts: 1
#10

Re: With two dimensions of time, many of the mysteries of today's laws of physics may disappear

11/05/2007 3:39 PM

May I suggest to read the paper, Physics of Time as Two Dimensions, which has been submitted for publication. It provides a physicist's (rather than mathematician's) view of time. Link to paper: http://www.marcvandererve.org/images/Physics_of_Time_as_Two_Dimensions.pdf

Abstract:

Based on the book, A New Dimension of Time,[i] this paper introduces the dual nature of time with the objective of inviting the mathematical formulation of its consequences in the different fields, a logic of theory development which itself is discussed in this paper as an integral part of the theory of nature's intrinsic self-referential dynamics. The argument in this paper revolves around the problem of explaining 'auto-emergence' in physics and is developed as follows: limits to the paradigm of description in physics, the emergence of observable spatial features, the behavioral nature of auto-emergence, signature of emergence, the congruent-simultaneity dimension, extending the paradigm of description in physics, conclusion and practical consequences. The by-independent-experimental-evidence-supported conclusion in this paper states that nature is essentially a behavioral phenomenon which produces observable reality as residue. The conclusions in this paper are at the heart of a forthcoming book with the working title: The Realm of Self-Creation.



[i] Marc van der Erve. A New Dimension of Time. LightningSource, 2007.

__________________
Adding a dimension to our world means adding a dimension to our self.
Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Cosmology - New Member United States - Member - New Member

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: 33.49N, 84.19W
Posts: 1475
Good Answers: 3
#11
In reply to #10

Re: With two dimensions of time, many of the mysteries of today's laws of physics may disappear

11/06/2007 11:04 AM

Hi Marc,

Excellent paper! It was easy to read and easy to follow without getting bogged down in a lot of complicated math.

I enjoyed the analogies very much. Really makes one think.

Thanks for the input.

-John

__________________
All worthwhile programmers know that constants always vary.
Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Cosmology - New Member United States - Member - New Member

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: 33.49N, 84.19W
Posts: 1475
Good Answers: 3
#12
In reply to #11

Re: With two dimensions of time, many of the mysteries of today's laws of physics may disappear

11/06/2007 4:25 PM

Clarification of previous post (#11):

The paper was easy to read and follow, however I did not mean to imply that I understood all of it! Having read it through, I'll now go back and study it more and try to make sense of it in my own mind.

Thanks,

-John

__________________
All worthwhile programmers know that constants always vary.
Reply
Power-User
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - Sworn to preserve and protect Engineering Fields - Nanoengineering - How tiny is it? APIX Pilot Plant Design Project - Member - Good idea. Engineering Fields - Engineering Physics - Engineering Fields - Energy Engineering - Energy in Transition

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Near DC, USA
Posts: 128
Good Answers: 15
#13
In reply to #10

Re: With two dimensions of time, many of the mysteries of today's laws of physics may disappear

04/17/2008 5:29 PM

Rebuilding from the bottom:

1. You have said that the observable universe is only a small part (or consequence) of "Nature."

2. This "Nature," as a "beharioral phenomenon" caused itself to emerge. (In "auto emergence" auto = self.)

3. That you have shown through independant experiment, evidence to support the behavioral nature of Nature.

4. The paper addresses issues associated with an explanation of "auto emergence" (of the Universe) in physics. In doing this the paper addresses the "dual nature of time."

I hope this is close. Admittedly, it is not complete. I keep finding my eye wandering to the "behavioral phenomenon" and "auto emergence." I suppose many things have behavior; my car sometimes behaves like a beast. Your use of the phrase leaves the impression you intend something more. Auto-emergence seems to imply something more than the "springing forth" of the Big Bang. Are you putting intelligence in the picture? In this theory did the universe come to be because Nature caused it to be?

I suppose I could be way off base. I look forward to the paper and its reading.

Best Regards.

__________________
“Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities. Truth isn't.” – Samuel Clemens in Following the Equator, Pudd'nhead Wilson's New Calendar
Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Cosmology - New Member Popular Science - Paleontology - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Popular Science - Genetics - New Member Popular Science - Biology - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: The Nevernever as much as possible, Earth when I have no choice.
Posts: 665
Good Answers: 11
#15

Re: With two dimensions of time, many of the mysteries of today's laws of physic

06/05/2008 10:48 PM

From a metaphysical subjective, not scientific, standpoint: time does not exist. Time is a construct that we as humans have created as part of our observable universe.

To the poster who mentioned death of a relative (sorry if I offend): Having died three times while being reconstructed (military) and remembering being on the "other side", I can assure you we are living an illusion.

I could go any where or any when I chose.

By the way, unless Einstein has returned from the other side and completed his work, Gravity has not been mastered to this day. Science is no closer to explaining the SOURCE of gravity now than at Einstein's death. And until the source is discovered, there cannot be a mastery.

Just my opinion Dragon

__________________
Ignorance is the beginning of knowledge. Heresy is the beginning of wisdom. The ignorant heretic is the wisest of all.
Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Cosmology - New Member United States - Member - New Member

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: 33.49N, 84.19W
Posts: 1475
Good Answers: 3
#16
In reply to #15

Re: With two dimensions of time, many of the mysteries of today's laws of physic

06/06/2008 6:47 PM

Hi Dragon,

You said "By the way, unless Einstein has returned from the other side and completed his work, Gravity has not been mastered to this day. Science is no closer to explaining the SOURCE of gravity now than at Einstein's death."

I believe if anyone could have returned it would have been Houdini, since he was absolutely convinced he could do it.

Far as we know he hasn't. However, I guess it's possible that he may have been reincarnated as someone else. Even if so, he will surely not remember his past identity (but maybe Shirley McLane could better expound on this).

The whole idea of "time" is, at the very least, a genuine profound mystery! JMHO anyway.

As has been previously stated (many times before), we experience time, we cannot do any calculations without it, and we live and die by it. BUT, we cannot explain it except in terms of itself!

-John

__________________
All worthwhile programmers know that constants always vary.
Reply
Reply to Blog Entry 17 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Anonymous Poster (2); CoronaCameraMan (2); davah (1); Dragonsfarm (2); Johnjohn (4); marcvandererve (1); mgaulin (1); PlbMak (1); taejonkwando (1); Transcendian (1); v1sor (1)

Previous in Blog: Bright idea creates '25-hour day'   Next in Blog: Scientists Ramp Up for Pyramid Theory

Advertisement