A Career Good Enough for Your Son?

My mid-life crisis was not a sports car, nor was it an affair with a 20 year old, mine was to decide to change careers. I love working with my hands. I love to watch something take shape from a casting, or a rod, or anything else for that matter. My problem is that "entry level" now requires at least a year of experience. I am a licensed land surveyor so working with numbers and CAD are nothing new to me. I have plenty of education across several disciplines but no degree (yet). Our wonderful government will import foreigners to do your job, but they have no concern for the people that have been paying too much tax since they were 14 years old. Is anybody training machinists, or are they content being hipocrites?

Welcome aboard! My guess is there are many satisfied hypocrites, but my hope is they are at least balanced, if not outweighed, by good trainers. Did I detect some old-fashioned sarcasm dripping off the word "wonderful" there?

Why not read Howard Hughes' biography. He started as a kid in a machine shop.

What's you point? Would Hughes have done better if he had started in dentistry, or palm reading, or NCR?

Ghandi was an attorney that learned to spin yarn. Yet he lead a whole nation to freedom.

What is success in life? Success is delivering on your promisses. The fuel for that is passion. If someone has a passion in his life for something the best thing that you can do is hold the flashlight and illuminate the path for him or get out of his way, even if it isn't the path that you are passionate about, it still is his passion and his path.

I see so many people go through life without passion. If you find someone with it, nurture it, don't let it die on the vine.

I believe his point was not about the kind of work his son would be doing. It sounds like the better question is the first one he asked in the blog entry.

I started out sweeping floors and cleaning chip pans of CNC mills at a pattern shop. I worked hard, paid attention, listened to those who had something to teach me, and asked questions about processes I didn't understand. Soon, I was machining manually, and a short time after that, I was running the CNC machinery. A year after hire, I was offered an apprenticeship. I took it running. After a couple of years, I was brought inside the office to run the CMM. A few more years of tooling inspection, coupled with CAD data verification, and a position opened in the CAD design department. I learned how to design patterns, molds, and most anything else using advanced surfacing and solids.

I am now a mechanical designer with the Wisconsin DNR, designing wildland firefighting apparatus and equipment.

I can say without any hesitation, that if a son, or daughter for that matter, starts out in any tool and die shop (whether it be stamping, mold making, fixtures, or patternmaking), and has a drive to learn and succeed, there are many opportunities for advancement. As for job satisfaction, only your child can tell you what feels right, and only after a period of employment, can he/she make that determination.

Only your child can decide what career is "good enough" for them. Precision Metalworking can be a good start, and if the company is profitable enough, an excellent and rewarding career.

Many parents including my father found from bitter experience that you cannot dictate what your sons/daughters careers should be, you can always advise them, but in the end they will do as they want!

The main reason for this anomaly is "Job Satisfaction", one of my cousins studied to be a Doctor of medisine, but has since left that type of career to become a bus driver, when I queried this choice of his he told me that he got better work satisfaction from driving a bus!!!

My farthers ambition for me was to work alongside him at the Rolls Royce jet propultion facility, but by the time I was fifteen I had taken three ferries to Norway and spent most of the whole passages down in the engine room, that is what started me off on a great career move. My father protested of course, but to no avail, I was going to do what I wanted for once!!!

My daughter started as an apprentice blaster in a quarry, now she is their general manager and it has done her no harm whatsoever. So stop worrying about your childrens choice of jobs, or it may breed resentment! Remember, job satisfaction makes for a better worker.

Spencer.

My company's CEO started out as a machinest here. It's a line of work that takes vision and foresight. If your child has an interest in any field you should support them and offer advice on how to succeed in that field to the best of your ability. In the end it's still their decision. If you try fighting them you'll wind up pushing them away from you, regardless of if you succeed in making the decision for them. Let them find their own way.

My advice does not pertainto any one carrer path but to a life path. It stems from an annoying phrase my grandfather alway said over and over(he was from Holland and I do not know how to spell in Dutch so I translate) "Everything you do, you show do it well". It was drilled into my head through out my youth and I only began to appreciate it later in life.

With that in mind advice your teenager that if he/she wants to excell in life, take interest in what ever job they take on, ask questions, study process, and most of all show an enthusiasm that will demonstrate a desire to grow. While this philosophy may not work in every environment it has great potential. It did for me

Bob

What do I think about machine shops and job satisfaction? Glad you asked

5 year apprenticeship as a precision machinist with NASA right out of high school. Worked on nearly every important space mission from Apollo through early shuttle design.

Military time introduced me to real aviation (was always a hobby as a kid)

Moved to CNC programming and operation - aerospace

Moved to mechanical design for manufacturing for a Navy contractor - naval design

Moved to CNC programming via CAD/CAM systems

Got a two year degree in office computer applications to broaden my computer foundation

Moved to CAD/CAM sales and sales support which gave me exposure to almost every industry type in the US that uses CAD and/or CAM

Freelance consulted in advanced CAD/CAM to US manufacturing firms for several years

CEO'ed (working type) a company with two knowledgeable partners that specialized in documentation and training on automated manufacturing systems for the auto industry

Moved to IT/Engineering Services management

Semi-retired and moved to a rural area to do mechanical design for a variety of manufacturing processes for a mid-size aviation company

Am I rich? NO. Do I care? NO. Do I enjoy what I do and what I've done. ABSOLUTELY.

Lastly, and maybe most importantly, do I care what others think of my life journey? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

Best thing that ever happened to me was that my parents did not pressure me to follow my older brother and sister to go the college route. They basically, with not so many words, allowed us to follow our own noses with zero interference.

Couple more years when I retire, I just might finish my 4 year degree and do something serious.

Even if he doesn't want be a machinist, it's a good trade to learn.

He might go off to school to be a dentist but if the dentistry doesn't work out, he'll always have that trade skill to fall back on.

Even if not for something to fall back on, it's always good to have a wide range of experiences under your belt because you never know when that knowledge might come in handy somewhere.

Many companies encourage cross training of employees to make them more versitile within the company. The United States Navy has a program for enlisted called Enlisted Surface Warfare Specialist, which is cross training in every field on the ship and they get to wear a pin to signify that accomplishment.

It all depends on how motivated your son is. People have gone from mailroom clerk to CEO. Others have remained mailroom clerks all their life. Success stories abound. So do failures. Along with motivation, it is important to have encouragement, especially from family. Nothing is more devastating than negative attitudes. Give him all your support no matter what field he chooses.

Military is also a good place for a young person to find his niche in life.

I worked a few years in a machine shop - old school; turret lathes, milling machines, broachers, drill presses, etc. Now I'm an environmental scientist (biologist, chemistry minor) and still fall back on some of the things I learned in that old shop. And I am SATISFIED with my work and my life, which is worth a TON of money, believe me!

I would encourage my son to think of "working in a machine shop" as a means rather than an end, and pursue creative interests where he could use his skills in less mundane ways - like metal art, robotics design, furniture making and so forth.

I can't tell you how many great ideas I've had that had to die because I don't have machine shop skills or equipment.

I earn a crust as an electronics/electrical/software designer. Most of the stuff I do is with a precision engineering company, who have no experience in the above.

I've had a teeny bit of background in engineering workshops - all of which helps with interfacing the metal & wires - but I wish I'd spent a year or two doing some real hands-on stuff early on.

When we jointly produce a bit of gear, most of the problems stem from the lack of crossover knowledge. If I knew more about the capabilities/limitations of the mechanisms, and they knew more about the capabilities/limitations of controls systems, we'd definitely produce better gear.

Remember that your son can change direction later, but any sound background on the shop floor will always stand him in good stead.

Also (as has already been suggested) - the best background for a boss-type person is one who knows what he's talking about. This comes best from someone who's actually done the hands-on stuff.

Working in a machine shop or any other place where you get your hands dirty is a great hands-on training. Only when he knows how to work with his hands, can he successfully apply the theory learned in school. Many engineers out of school who have never done any hands-on work, are at a loss in an industry setting. Theory is fine, but knowing how things go together is important.

I worked in the shipbuilding industry, and I have seen 23 year old engineers relying on 60 year old craftsmen and designers to explain the intricaties of shipbuilding.

Before I'd advise my teenager about working in the metal cutting industry I'd ask myself some questions.

Does he/she like to build things, even if just on the computer?

Is he/she orderly and meticulous about such activities?

Is he/she inclined to think and or talk about such projects in the abstract?

Can he/she follow a step by step procedure to get something done and actually complete a task?

Does he/she have good hand/eye coordination?

Has a family/home environment that encourages craft or hobby projects been utilized by the child?

I pose these questions because they were all "yes" for my oldest son, a very successful mechanical engineer and a pretty fair machinist at age 38 and all "no" for my youngest son, age 34, a successful salesman and currently Global Sales manager for a leading pop culture magazine in a foreign country.

There's a terrific future for the entire metalworking industry in the US; but to be part of the success means having the aptitude and the interest to get through the early learning years.

Ed Weldon, Los Gatos, CA

I certainly feel it would be good enough for my son (or daughter, I have three - no sons), but I wouldn't recommend it. I have been in the machine shop business for 31 years, and have been partners in a small machine shop for 13 years. I encouraged my daughters to get a college education and discouraged them from working with me. I find my work enjoyable, but the shrinking manufacturing base makes it tougher all the time to find enough work to stay busy. It's not for a lack of technology. We're an all CNC shop, with 5 axis vertical mills, and sophisticated 5 axis programming software.

So while I find the work personally rewarding, I don't see it as something I would recommend a young person to get into. Our company is in Michigan, and I would estimate that we have roughly half of the machine shops we had just ten years ago.

That's certainly a valid (and eye-opening) point! It can be as fun as all get-out, but if it don't put beans on the table, it's not a good career move. I'm sorry (but not really surprised, I guess) to hear it's gotten so difficult.

While still in high school have him try for a job in a decent machine shop not one of the dark dirty smelly type that are out there.If he is intrigued by what he sees he is posibly a candidate for machinest work. in the meantime I would be pointing out al the exciting possibilities available to him as a "Machinest"

Being a machinest is agreat carrer BUT There is a more promising future coming up through the ranks into middle managment. You can be the BEST machinest in the world and you are only worth so much. If you make the grade in management or engineering you will get more perks and dollars in the long run. This all entails going to school at night while all his buddys are out having a ball.

When I was working I had the challange of set ups,Trig problems, machining exotic materials, and most of all improvising and useing my noodle.But getting was much more rewarding in many ways.

Ed Carroll (heysouix@tds.net)

I am an Mechanical Engineer caused by seing Officers in the Army dumber than I but had degrees. so when I got out with the support of the GI Bill I went to college. I have a family of 3 children oldest boy works for the US Govt. and has a Masters in Business. The second a girl has a certificate in Machine shop from a Tech school. She worked hard in a mans world with all the implications that has. But I was always mechanically inclined always repaired everything I owned and she helped me. So after a few years in machining she had the opportunity to work for Caterpillar as a draftsman using Cad/Cam. Since she was a very hard worker and learned fast she move up to Hydraulics Engineer Blueprint side and traveled to satellite plants in US, England and Europe to support changes in design. The fact that she had machining and mechanical background was the base for her sucess. She is now a Supervisor in a hydraulic valve plant. and looking forward to further promotion. By the way she earned a Business Degree at night school. Part of the stupid idea that everyone must have degree to suceed. So all the emphasis was on male why not female.