Previous in Forum: Calculation of star delta motor   Next in Forum: Cable Selection
Close
Close
Close
9 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Anonymous Poster

Electromechanical Frequency Converter

08/21/2007 5:19 PM

Here's one for you old-timers out there. I recently visited a plant that has an OLD electromechanical freq converter with a synch gen at one freq and an induction motor at another. It has bi-directional power capability. Now I can see the induction motor acting as the prime mover to teh synchronous gen thus producing power out of the synch gen. My question is how is the synch generator able to transmit power out at the induction motor end.

Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".
Guru
Safety - ESD - New Member India - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Energy Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Pune , India
Posts: 875
Good Answers: 42
#1

Re: Electromech frequency converter

08/21/2007 6:01 PM

Your question is not clear . I think you want to know about a Medium frequency Motor generator set with 3 phase 50/60 cycles Induction Motor as prime mover. and generator out put single phase 2 KHz /8 KHz .These out puts are normally used for Industrial purposes such as Induction heating ,very high speed motors etc.These generators are available from very low capacity range to high capacity depends on utility ( 2 KW to even 500 Kw) These motors and generators are mechanically coupled .The principle of of design of these MF generators I have already given in reply to one of the earlier threads on same subject which you can read.

Reply
Member

Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8
#2
In reply to #1

Re: Electromech frequency converter

08/21/2007 6:08 PM

You may be right about being unclear. Let me (try and) elaborate. The freq converter ties a 3phase 60Hz system with a 3 phase 50Hz system, both at 6.6kV. Power can flow from the 60 to the 50 and vice versa (there are generating sources at the 60 and at the 50 sides). I see this as different than an MG set since power flow is bidirectional as opposed to the M simply driving the G. Is this any clearer?

Reply
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: California, USA, where the Godless live next door to God.
Posts: 4665
Good Answers: 804
#3
In reply to #2

Re: Electromech frequency converter

08/22/2007 1:02 AM

If you have a prime mover at either side, it is just a generator for whatever side you connect. The only issue with one side being a synchronous motor is that it can operate in "island mode" meaning not connected to another grid for excitation current. otherwise, you could do it with 2 induction motors.

__________________
** All I every really wanted to be, was... A LUMBERJACK!.**
Reply
Anonymous Poster
#4

Re: Electromechanical Frequency Converter

08/23/2007 5:50 AM

If power is applied to an induction motor and it is turned by another motor at faster than synchronous speed, it will act as a generator. To deliver torque, the induction motor runs at less than synchronous speed. So if the motor is on the 60Hz side, power will go from the motor to the generator. If the the generator is on the 60Hz side, power will go from the generator to the motor. Moving the generator from the 50 Hz side to the 60 Hz side makes it go faster turning the induction motor into a generator. However, in either case, you are moving power from the 60Hz power to the 50Hz power.

Reply
2
Anonymous Poster
#5

Re: Electromechanical Frequency Converter

08/23/2007 6:08 AM

The induction motor can produce power when being driven by a prime mover, as long as the induction motor is connected to a power source. When the induction motor is being driven such that its output frequency wants to be greater than the power source frequency, it will deliver power into the power source. However, it cannot generate power in an isochronous mode since it has no excitation system of its own.

Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 9
#6

Re: Electromechanical Frequency Converter

08/23/2007 9:27 AM

Freq converter that were built in 1927 are still used on Amtrack's northeast corridor line. The converter 60 cycle power to 25 cycle power.

Reply
Anonymous Poster
#7
In reply to #6

Re: Electromechanical Frequency Converter

08/23/2007 9:37 AM

There are 2 old Transit Authoity frequency converters where I am presently working. One is a 25 to 60Hz converter and the other is a 60 to 25Hz converter. They are both in the process of being demolished and removed.

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Surrey BC Canada
Posts: 1571
Good Answers: 42
#8

Re: Electromechanical Frequency Converter

08/23/2007 1:02 PM

A synchronous motor (or generator) is essentially the same machine, but will motor or generate depending on the power absorbed or delivered to the shaft.

An induction motor (or generator) does the same thing, however to act as a motor its speed will be less than synchronous, at synchronous speed its power is 0, and if you supply power and drive its shaft above synchronous speed it will generate.

Both machines can behave both as a motor and generator, it only depends on how you apply them.

The system is very similar to the traditional DC MG set, where the prime mover was a synchronous motor, the generator was a DC machine with adjustable field (hence armature voltage), providing adjustable DC voltage to attached DC "motors" on the bus. If you overhauled the DC motors the power was smoothly transferred through the DC generator through the shaft and back into the prime mover that dumped the power back into the grid. This was a typical control system for Paper Machine controls from the 1920's until being replaced with SCR controls 20 years ago. The system does have its benefits in being able to smoothly transfer power without harmonics and has "bump-less" transition from motoring to regenerating.

This same principal is used with modern VFDs that typically use induction machines. They can smoothly deliver power or absorb power. However, if the VFD is to absorb significant power you need to ensure it is a design that can "regenerate".

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1758
Good Answers: 6
#9

Re: Electromechanical Frequency Converter

08/25/2007 6:15 PM

The Equipment is called "Cycloverter' or "Cyclo-converter"

There had been a post about it, but not much of info then.

It is some 30-40 years back I had a chance to work on such device but it was Hybrid;

Elctronic /Mechanical.

Reply
Reply to Forum Thread 9 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

A21M (1); Anonymous Poster (1); GW (1); Haajee (1); JRaef (1); nova85 (1); V.I.Abraham (1)

Previous in Forum: Calculation of star delta motor   Next in Forum: Cable Selection

Advertisement