Free Energy Device, please help me

O BOY-HERE WE GO AGAIN!

You took the words right out of my mouth!

azeeco,

If you use CR4's search engine, you'll find that all the magnet motors that have been discussed here have been ridiculed and mercilessly blasted. I suggest you go and find some other site that will support your idea.

Good luck on your venture (you'll need it).

Vulcan,

I gotta hand it to you. You really did try to warn this guy about what he was in for. And quite accurately, too.

Your a scholar and a gentleman!

vermin-

Thanks vermin, I just don't like to see (or read, as the case may be) people being lambasted. I do have my lapses sometimes though .

What I didn't foresee was the polarization of the members and guests. I was seriously thinking of asking CR4 to close this thread. I do believe, however, that we should work this out ourselves.

The world is made up of all kinds of people. CR4 is just the same world on a smaller scale (and made up of engineering types too!).

Do engineers speak the same language? They do. They just don't always agree.

a perpetual machine should be used for different cause why go for patent if you really claim to have one go further and develop for society benefit , you can couple with generator, mechanical power etc , it will not have any commercial value at all .if it is not free ,or dead cheap you cannot call it free power either( example solar /wind power even though free, is quet expensive for sensors involved), science communities cannot accept such concepts like perpetual motion , many designs came from centuaries ago ,we can have near perpetuality through efficiecy , i can suggest to promot your designs in schools , institutions

If you can prove that it is a working device (post a video) and prove that the video has no trickery, then you might generate some interest, although it will be extremely difficult to convince anyone here, because we've been through this scenario many times before.

And the inventor of such a device would become wealthy even without a patent. The book deals and speaking engagements -- not to mention the Nobel Prize -- would pay quite well.

I doubt that your device works (I have heard many such claims, all of the unverified so far), but try contacting the people at the link below. They will lend a sympathetic ear. But, after having been disappointed so many times, they will also ask for proof.

http://freeenergynews.com

Please tell us more details about your invention!

Do you always take so much time checking out your toenails?

Only when breaking boards with them.

Hey vermin, how do you get your avatar to move? I would like to fix mine so that you actually see the jump and the break.

heck yeah, I want to invest all my retirement money in this one!

I wonder if there would be a way to latch onto the magnetic fields of the earth and the sun and use them to generate electricity. The gravitational pull of the moon is remarkably powerful, lifting the surface of the earth a few inches as if flies by. Tidal power generators use this force by impeding the motion of ocean water into estuaries the tide is rising and impeding the water out of estuaries as the tide is falling. There's a relatively narrow band of tides high enough to make this usable--around the 45th parallel.

Using the moon and the sun's gravitational pull would reduce the amount of fuel needed to get something into orbit. Is NASA launching when the moon or sun (or both) are in the eastern sky?

You are asking the wrong people for help(I am sorry to say). Every one here have learned their trade from the same teachers. They have been brainwashed into believing that what they have been taught is the only way it can be. Nobody can come up with something that conterdicts what they were taught. Down the list of replys, someone suggested ,you could try a free energy web site. At least they will give you a chance to show your stuff. If it works,Great,If not then go back to the drawing board and make it work. Nikkola Tesla in 1938 drove a Pierce Arrow car for several weeks on an electric motor and out preformed the gas engined cars of that time. Do you see anyone here doing that today? NO. Everyone here just sits back and says it can't be done. It has been done, but the collective mindset says it cant work, and nobody here has the guts to prove it can. I'm sorry for this kind of a response,but for all of the collective intelligance/brilliance, they just can't think outside the box.

Well said my friend....

This is stupidity at its best. Inventors need to forget what is known and forget what is suppose to be impossible and try everything until something works. It simple, think that it is impossible and you will fail, think anything is possible and prove that it is and you find something that proves all these idiots wrong. Think outside of everything try everything no matter how stupid it may seem and you can change the "LAWS" that all of these people hold to be true without every trying to prove they are not. If the Wright bothers thought the way these people are thinking we would not be flying today. If people all thought the "Laws" can't be broken we would not have light bulbs, electricity and countless other things that use to be out side of the "Laws" Push the envelope try it all and I bet something great can come out of it. Rewrite the "Laws" dont hold them to be Gods word. Because they are not!

A fine bit of advice in my most humble opinion.

cr3

Hilltopper you said it well ,there is little room for free thinking .

When you have "know it alls" that can only say" it can't be done ".

For a current example see the discussion I posted about the possibility of cordless devices ,there were nothing but negative comments and a month later MIT came out to say they had made significant breakthroughs in exactly the same idea.

I'm not sure if it's this forum or the science community in general but there seems to be a pervasive negative overtone .

Although in fairness it is a classic that someone has found a free energy devise .

I'm willing to listen before passing judgement , thanks for your comments

They thought the Wright Brothers would never fly as well

Tvp45

There will be developments in our lifetime that you or I have never dreamed.

Upsetting the apple cart is how things get done that would never see the light of day if someone succumbed to those premises

There have been many further examples of defying the norm ,We went to the moon, the atom ,communication ,transportation ,have all vaulted ahead while a man in the early 1900's might have thought everything had already been invented.

I'm sure Eli Whitney was told not to upset the apple cart but he went on to revolutionize an industry .

I believe anything can be done if we have the vision to believe it can.

That's not to say the mans devise works, at all, but I would be happy for the world if it did .

I can say I'm still amazed what technology has developed and am in awe at my cellphone ,computer and the ability for some well intentioned inventor to get a chance to investigate an idea .

I hate to be so unfriendly or un-mannerly, but even Fusion (when eventually usable in probably 20-30 years time) is still not a free lunch!!!! Energy HAS to come from somewhere......

Landing on the moon was not suddenly pulled out of a hat, it took years of preparation and knowledge, it only appears "magical" to people who do not have a clue about basic physics........or who cannot learn quickly.

Basically, even Dan Dare of the eagle (I will explain more if you wish or you can look at the web) knew years and years before that a rocket was going to be the method to get to the moon, that space was a vacuum and that space suits were going to be needed - and that was a kid's comic of the 40's and 50's.......but having the technology finished to do it, THAT is what was missing. WvB learnt in Nazi Germany and brought his knowledge to the USA, nothing "Magical", just hard and clever work!!

If you suppose for a couple of seconds that this claim had any basis on fact at all, why would he come to CR4???? He would be on the front pages of every newspaper in the world!!!! Don't just think that you were in at the beginning!!!! You were, but of just someone with a false claim, nothing more, nothing less......

He does not need us at all, unless he wants to try and pull a fast one. Luckily, most of us have been around to long to be sucked in and being nice to the "Area 51 + Martian spaceship" people, just makes them worse.....I learnt that a long time ago......

Nice friendly (mannerly) Posts like yours are like a Honey pot to these people, they attract Bees AND Wasps.......you are just too nice for this world....I am old, cranky and wiser.

By the way, if it turns out that I am completely wrong, I will publish a full apology, provided I am still alive, or from heaven (hell?) if I am not.....

I seem to have ranted at you in a very unfriendly way, that was not my attention, I just wanted to divert your attention away from the crackpots around CR4 a little, I hope that you do not feel "put upon" at all.

CR4 is fantastic, and we have to put up with such claims from time to time as I feel it would detriment from CR4 as a whole, if rules were placed stopping them, it would stifle too many good things as well. Just don't get sucked in my friend!

Have a great day in spite of me please.....

Rant over!!

I got free energy from a magnetic field! I swear it's true!!!

I was talking to my meter-reader, and found out he was a nut for magnets. So I traded one of those really powerful magnets for a month's free power!

Entropy is nothing compared to greedory!

I refer you to Jules Verne. Perhaps the most forward thinking literary.

Hi TVP45,

"or a new system of time, etc."

Not new, but this one's a little out of the ordinary, especially for those who are binary challenged.

WOW! I love it. Turning a simple task into a convoluted one is truly a great purpose. Now the big question is how you can make a Swatch (tm) out of this.

Thanks,

Tom

Awesome! That is completely, totally and utterly ridiculous!

It's interesting the Wright brothers get called as an example of radical free thinking. They built their flying machine using newly developed higher powered engines and with knowledge discovered and refined by many other people. Many people around the world were at a similar stage (some claim others were slightly ahead).

So it was only a matter of time before someone came up with a working flying machine. If you really want to know grab a book on the early history of flight.

This is, of course, not a negative comment on the Wright bros achievement. I'm filled with admiration with their skill, tenacity, clever ideas and bravery. Jeff

Jeff, well said.

The facts are facts no matter how they got there, I respect them too.

What a lot of people forget is that "heavier than air flying machines / things" have been around for millions of years, they are called birds!!! So everyone knew that it was possible, but there was just the problem of "how exactly?"

Many people around the world were at a similar stage (some claim others were slightly ahead).

A Brazilian tycoon called Santos Dumont took of with his plane for a short flight in Paris a time before the Wright's did their first flight.

The Wright's also had to use a catapult for taking off, whilst Dumont made the first taxiing as well!

I used to argue with my first wife. She used wors like: always, never, everyone.

She never understood why I wa so upset by those generalizations. Of course she was but a beautiful, innocent, 22 year-old girl.

Do you understand why those comments are so frustrating?

cr3

Contact these people, they have had the same machine for years, only MUCH larger..

josephnewman@earthlink.net

I would like to know more about your device. I may be able to help.

ellisd@comcast.net

I may be able to help you out - requires detailed discussion onto it - hiwases@yahoo.com

I bet you gave yourself that name, huh!

Look out!!! Here comes Major Rummel in his Sopwith Camel! He's strafing the field!!!

Please be careful before unleashing all this energy which is currently safely tucked away in magnets. The resulting surge of energy into the environment could cause catastrophic global warming.

(Is there a 'smiley' representing sarcasm?)

Yes. It's .

Research freeenergynews.com They have all of your competitors, and every other form of energy device from biomass to heat to energy.

Ron Wagner

Do you have an actual working unit?

There are some magnetic drive systems known that work, but the magnetic energy as stored in magnets decays (= consumed) and the engine looses it's power over a period of time.

Could you post a sketch of the principle, when the idea would be stolen and used by another which makes nice money from it you can always find an American lawyer who can use the publication in CR4 and prove that you are the true inventor. Of coarse you should work in your own name and not under a nickname.

Hi Gwen,

You wrote:

There are some magnetic drive systems known that work, but the magnetic energy as stored in magnets decays (= consumed) and the engine looses it's power over a period of time.

You're not referring to *permanent* magnets, are you? On the free_energy Yahoo group (where skeptics debunk over-unity/perpetual motion machines), some apologists have argued that perpetual motion machines constructed of purely permanent magnets could operate for a long time without violating the first law of thermodynamics (conservation of energy). They argue that energy is released by the gradual weakening of the permanent magnets' fields over time. Are you thinking along these same lines, or did you have electromagnets in mind? If the former, I can explain why this won't work (hint: demagnetization of a permanent magnet is endothermic, not exothermic). If any experts think I'm wrong, I would appreciate having my reasoning corrected.

svengali

Is it possible that does in fact use energy - by essentially running down the field inside the magnet, thus demagnetising it slowly over a long period of time?

But in any event, what the hell are you worried about? Just start marketing it, with a large prominent label on it in big letters saying "Patent refused by US Patent Office"!! Then, if it really does work, and somebody else started copying it, you have an enormous case for going to Law and suing the US Patent OIffice for considerable sums!

Reply entered by Benno

Hi Benno,

Your comment is interesting. It is the way to prove the invention from a businessman point of view. The inventor will gain profit through winning the lawsuit, not selling his invention.

However, once you offer it for sale you only have one year to apply for a patent should it subsequently be determined to be patentable. After that, it goes into the public domain and you loose any opportunity to enjoy exclusive rights.

>My problem is that I unable to get any advantage of this device.

What do you mean? If there is no advantage from this device, then it is crap. Dont waste your time on this.

>US Patent office is refusing to give patent for all those devices that are claiming to produce free energy. they say that these devices voilates second law of thermodynamics.

US Patent office is right. They have seen a lot of cheats and frauds in this line. How do they know if you are not one?

>But my invented device is prefectly working.

Where is the proof of your work?

> can any one help where should I go ? how should I produce this device to science community and to public? What should I do? please help me.....

Go to your mama or papa and ask for some money to produce a prototype. Then make a video of this working and post it on the web, along with theory behind this, giving necessary numbers and calculations to understand what this is.

Once you are sure this is a real wrking device and not some fake, arrange an exhibition to show it to a bunch scientists, who will grill you and roll your theory over hot coals, to make sure that your theory is does really hold good and repeatable.

Although I also do not believe the claims either, it is pretty safe to be that English is not his first language, I have seen much, much worse on CR4 than his English....mine sometimes for example!!!

I second that Out of the Box well put .

Ooooooh, I do NOT like bullies. :(

Hello, I'm Gustav Whitehead and I was robbed!

Tell me more!!!!!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion

I think we're wasting our time. "azeeco" has a total post count of 1, and has not responded. I believe this was a joke or rouse or something.. or maybe he really had nothing at all..

Provoked interesting conversation though, so not a total waste

Maybe he understood that we are not believers of what was purported to have happened in area 51, or Martian space ships, or how petrol can be supercharged with oxygen by passing it through a magnet, or holding solar plasma in a copper tube at 3000°C etc etc etc, he needs people of that ilk as an audience!!! Not us! We are too boring and staid (thank God!)

Hi Andy,

If we can just nail down that "cold fusion" I think we will have got it by George.

another nice claim in this area: Engines running on potable water.

....by tomorrow if possible!!!

There you go steve-o! You have to see the silver lining here. It is voyeurism at its best. Like a train wreck, tragic but you just have to watch to see what's going to happen. Like some of the posters have said "Anything is possible."

Perhaps if anything is possible then I can find someone to invest in my levitation device. So far the darned thing just keeps obeying Newton's second law but now that I know that anything is possible, perhaps that means I can still use it to scam investors!

Anything is possible! Weeeeeeeeeeeeee!

I m here. I can not disclose all the details about my idea. I was just willing to know what should I do and how should I produce my idea to the world. Yes thats true I m worried about my invention that some one else may steal my idea so am very cautious. I apperciate all users who spair thier valuable time to comment on my idea. some users disappoints me and made sad by thier rude behivour. I was thinking that i be aopperciated on this web site some users have done that ( for that I m thankful to them). Since US patent office is refusing for granting patent for device like this can guide me what is patent laws or patent procedure in united kingdom or in eroupean union? please guide me? can any knows addres of royel science society of lodon? can any one tell me please what is patent laws and contact information in japan? austerlia? germany? or New zealand? Please guide me do nt discourge me. I do nt want any thing but to serve humanty and mother earth.

May I guide you:-

1) Make a fully working version, without this you are completely lost, nobody will back you up without this.

2) Then apply for a patent in your home country, with the device in your hand

If you cannot do 1) then you cannot do 2), its as simple as that......

Once you have a patent and a working version, the world is your Oyster.

Please also do remember to use the spelling checker available in CR4, your spelling is dreadful, as mine would be in your language! It gives a bad impression of your capabilities if you cannot even be bothered to use a spelling checker!

Its the Green tick with ABC above....2nd Icon from the RH side. You had 16 spelling errors in your last posting........that the CR4 editor could find!!!!

I use it every time and my mother tongue is English!! as mistakes can happen.....

Tell us when your invention is working and send us also a video link, thanks in advance.

Please also note:-

By the way, it has been seen time after time, that people with something to hide or who are not quite correct or truthful, they pick on the other people who tell the truth as they see it, as being "rude", if you cannot take the truth, then something is not quite "kosher", or you would have proof that you could give us.....so please do not throw "smoke screens" each time you are asked for some form of validation in what you are saying, either supply the validations required or go elsewhere.....

If it is secret, you came to the wrong place, anywhere the internet is not a place to keep secrets!! Its a place to publicise!!!!

Yes, If you have a valid machine -prove it.

If you're throwing out a "teaser" -blow it.

(yes, that was a tad rude, but wtf)

As the other posters say, you will have no chance for consideration for such a device without a working model. In the US we go by first to conceive and so you could in theory divulge info and not loose your right to a patent. Many other countries are first to file so you must be aware of that risk.

In fact, if someone believed you had a working device the value of such a device would be worth finding you and taking it from you by any means necessary so there would be more at risk than your patent rights, if you know what I mean.

In reality, the most valuable thing we could offer is that we might point out where you have made a mistake and save you a lot of time and money pursuing a dead end. Since you are a mechanical engineer there is a real risk that you do not have the electronic skills to properly measure energy in vs energy out which is where many who have "discovered" free energy fail.

Good luck and let us know how it works out for you.

There is a way to save your invention for yourself without having to apply for a real patent: an invention disclosure.

It can be done in Australia and the only thing you do is make a nice document with the invention explained. You don't file for a real invention but the idea is listed and later on you can transform it into a patent (when the complete work is done)

Good luck.

Well, if you go back to my previous post (#2), I did warn you about what would happen here.

The only way you can get the Patent Office to give you a patent is to bring your invention over to them (a real working invention, not just a drawing or description) to show them that it works. Seeing is believing.

I find it hard to believe, however, that this idea has not already occurred to you. If I had a working model, I'd bring be sure to bring it to the Patent Office on my first attempt. Do you really have a working model?

You claim to be a Senior Mechanical Engineer.

CR4 is an engineering forum. Engineers are supposed to use the principles and laws of physics to build all these wonderful things we have today. What you claim to have built violates those principles and laws. Therefore, the reaction of the people here is understandable. There are a few who believe you (mostly unnamed guests) and a few who will be encouraging though still unbelieving.

I have answered your question (what you should do). Take your invention and show it to a Patent Officer. If you're invention really works, we'll soon hear about it, I'm sure.

Otherwise, find some other venture to occupy your time.

great scientist often faced stiff oppositions for there theories , nobody is rude here just ! you should produce such device practically with calculations ,if you worry for someone to steal your tech it may be vice versa too .Mind it , it will not carry any comercial value as it is free power .better understand patent laws ,we still have number of questions unanswered in laws of physics ,discoveries in chemical world are going great , such devices may work in space at present as earth laws dont permit such theories as perpetual motion

...amd you're ready to pack it all in because some respondents cannot believe you? For the sake of humanity, one of your listed concerns, you must continue!

http://www.wipo.int

The above is a link to the "World Intellectual Property Organization"

CR3

ps: watch out for Andy Germany, I think he wants money or something.

Having read all of the above, and having already lectured on simple manners ... I'll get back to an engineering issue.

This thread was about a magnet based free energy source. Probbbbably not likely. But ... let me ask this: Do none of you believe that at some point in time ... in a year, or in 200 years, or more ... do none of you believe that there will ever be a true and literal perpetual motion machine devised? Yes, yes ... we have The Laws. But even so...

200 years, given the rate at which the technology curve is accelerating (i.e. 1607 thru 1807 vs. 1807 thru 2007), is an incredible amount of time for technology to build upon itself. Things "known" to be true, by every man, woman and child, have time and again been proven false throughout history. And then we look back and say "How crazy that our closed-minded ancestors could believe such a silly thing". I wouldn't so easily scoff at absurd ideas, myself. Despite The Laws. If it could be in 1000 years, it could also be in 200 years. And therefore, it could be next Thursday. Just takes the right mind, the right perspective (out of the box is my own personal favorite!), and the right inspiration.

"Free Energy". Never??

Hi Out of Box,

OK, I'll step up and be the guy to throw pies at. Most of us are practical folks - engineers, mechanics, draftsmen, electricians, etc. We deal with the possible in the now. Perpetual energy might indeed be possible in 200 years, but it isn't now. There are legitimate areas for speculation, particularly on the quantum and cosmological scales, but ordinary thermodynamics is well established and tested. Zany science is wonderful and I wholeheartedly endorse it; just don't make established science wrong in the process. We have already too much of that in the world. Believe in cloaking devices if you will, but do so without saying Maxwell was wrong.

Tom

Indeed, we only insist on starting with what is known and going onward from there. Also the ability to disagree constructively about the current understandings about what is known is critical to working together to expand what is known. This seems to be the biggest "stuck in the box" issue with virtually everyone who thinks they have discovered humankind's energy salvation. They crumble at the first question and begin accusations of "negative thinking" as if positive thinking can magically make something work in spite of what has been demonstrated incontrovertibly.

Repeatedly I ask for additional information, theory to substantiate claims, diagrams, illustrations whatever you've got and very seldom is any well thought out response rendered. I can only suspect that it is because there is none to offer and they just want it to be so because gee, it would be really great if it were.

And indeed we might have cloaking devices, albeit perhaps not in a practical sense, but the technology exists to make it feasible. It is based on optical materials with a negative coefficient of refraction. These materials exist and it is theoretically feasible to use them to conduct light around an object making it invisible. Practically speaking it seems unlikely that you'll be able to slip one on and disappear but the point is this did not come about by anyone violating the laws of physics or just wishing it could be.

The truth is that we will never violate the laws of physics. However, we all expect our understanding of what they are to evolve and change. That doesn't mean we won't be testing and challenging new ideas about what they are all along the way. To do otherwise would be to put our head in a box and tape it closed. No one can reasonably expect others to simply accept what they say because they say so or gee it is such a swell idea.

Show some basic competency. Articulate your concepts in common terms that we can all understand and engage in discussion. We don't challenge to shove old ideas down anyone's throat. We do so in order that we may educate each other as to how our understandings may be incomplete. Who can insist that this is not a reasonable approach?

By the way the original poster was obviously sufficiently drubbed into the ground ,for anyone to ever get any details there may have been an element of an idea that was still viable but we'll never know .

I realise perpetual motion machines are favorite fodder for the peanut gallery but I haven't heard any wicked good ideas thrown on the table by the tough guys .

My mother told me "you have to go out on a limb because that's where the fruit is ."

At least the guy is trying which reminds me of another pearl of wisdom

" if you have nothing good to say say nothing "

Look, no one who is resourceful enough to be an inventor is so weak as to be "drubbed into the ground" by someone's typed words. Have some spunk for goodness sakes.

If you're not strong enough to stand up for your ideas and argue your point I question if you have the wherewithal to develop new technology.

Hi rcapper,

You make a good point. When we have ideas, the way to find out whether they're any good is to lay them out and invite criticism. That might be in the form of a paper, a design review, or a forum like this. When people poke holes in our theories, then we have some information on how to fix them.

I don't engage in ad hominem attacks and generally will defend anyone who is the target of personal attacks. But, the hard part is for newcomers to understand they are being subjected to constructive criticism and that it is meant to help them.

I had read something about negative refraction material, but hadn't thought of making a cloaking device. I was thinking more along the lines of a Romulan device. Neat.

Tom

Hello TVP45,

Which Romulan device were you thinking of. I think they were the first ones to use a cloaking device, although the Klingons did use it later on. I like the negative refraction thing though. Just thinkin...

The practical and short term application for the negative refraction optics may be nearly perfect lenses that do not exhibit chromatic aberration. The issue they are working on resolving is the low transmission since the materials are a composite of several materials.

Well put, thanks.

To say a thing is impossible is assuming it adheres to a fixed set of circumstances. Telling a man what he has isn't viable with out any looksy what so ever is at the very least poor science. Many discovery's over the years have been due to accident. Bread .... mold ....... It wasn't known why it worked at first just that it did. We don't know everything (i was as shocked as you when i found out) about the universe. The rules always have a loophole ,an "unless" or a "far as we know".

Its just rude and closed minded

PROVE IT WORKS !

THOUSANDS HAVE CLAIMED THE SAME THING AND NOT ONE PERSON HAS PROVED IT WORKS.

It either works or it does't.

NUF SAID!

Please. read http://www.physorg.com/news107183785.html

Regard,

Serca_2@hotmail.com

I went there. I didn't like it. I'm am not going back. I really, really didn't like it.

I wanna go home.

cr3

Gentlemen,

AZEECO is long gone, he has not come back to comment or to demonstrate some form of proof of the wide statements he claimed.

I feel that all he wanted was to see if his scheme to separate people from their money would get some credence and victims here, obviously not, so he is gone away to find easier pickings...

As I said earlier, if I am proved completely wrong, that the laws of physics can be bent to allow a true "free lunch", then I will apologize fully.

I feel that we can forget this Blog as we are now only bickering amongst ourselves about our (my) possible bad manners......totally unproductive for everyone concerned, we are all too old to change much!!

Have a great day!!!

Andy! Lighten up! Sounded to me like he was just some young kid that thought he'd stumbled on something important and was trying (though misguided) to find someone to believe him.

Who knows, when guys can't get dates, they often resort to something else to make them feel special. You may have destroyed all that was left of a sagging ego and a raging libido!

Anyway, I'm sure he wants to keep it to himself because he worries that someone else will steal the idea. What the heck, let the poor guy walk around feeling secret and special.

"...I'll sell you these magic beans for the trade of your dairy cow."

...and the rest is history.

cr3

Who's laughing now?!?!